tmsr - Search: z80

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: erry die from z80 up has 'large rectangular' , them's the cache srams.

OriansJ: bvt: well believe it not; previously most architectures were easy to encode by hand (PDP-11, PDP-10, Vax, 6502, z80, 8086) but MIPS changed the game by showing with high enough languages one can be brain dead in regards to human understanding of the encoding rules and squeeze a drop of extra performance out.

asciilifeform: sorta why people still occasionally bother to bake 'si on saphire' etc rather than 'hey let's tandem 9000 konsoomer z80'

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: pretty typical; consider why ro and ddr 'z80' still found in ru fleamarkets

asciilifeform: meanwhile, in 'mit phuctor'-style lulzattempts at thefts from republic, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/vL8Rj/?raw=true << d00d implements keccak for z80, and naturally claims great 'invention', where , e.g., 'new meaning to retrocomputing-based perfect forward secrecy. In the contemporary concern about tampering and traps in our computing devices...'

a111: Logged on 2018-12-26 00:25 asciilifeform: z80 of course not only costs fiddycents, but ~still made~ , and so has been photographed errywhere, prolly even in zimbabwe. whereas there's maybe 50 'ivory' remaining total.

asciilifeform: z80 of course not only costs fiddycents, but ~still made~ , and so has been photographed errywhere, prolly even in zimbabwe. whereas there's maybe 50 'ivory' remaining total. ☟︎

asciilifeform: ( esp. considering that the transistors were placed by machine to begin with, so they aint in any human-comprehensible order like they are on z80 or 6502 etc )

mircea_popescu: remember back when they had folks who went to school ? "elite" husband-and-wife team could bake a great z80 game over a summer, and so on.

asciilifeform: z80 is a much larger-featured item, so not directly applicable. 386/486 is the ticket.

a111: Logged on 2018-11-16 17:32 asciilifeform: ( i actually have a b00k by orig designer of z80, where he actually walks through the die, transistor by transistor, as if it were picasso )

asciilifeform: ( i actually have a b00k by orig designer of z80, where he actually walks through the die, transistor by transistor, as if it were picasso ) ☟︎

mircea_popescu believes "handmade" and "art" to be unrelated ; one can have industrial art (such as, eminently, the z80, and such as very much NOT warhola's crapolade)

asciilifeform: ( rsa on z80, 6502, etc. is ~nonstarter, even if one 'banks' the address lines to give enuff mem, the 8bit buggers lack a multiplier, so you get 'egyptian' speed )

mircea_popescu: nobody with the "smart"phones ever does, which is i guess the living proof of why "smart" phones are for dumb people and the z80 was smart even tho it didn't LABEL ITSELF SUCH

asciilifeform: 'A long time ago, in the late eighties, I myself tried to develop such a system, on a home-made 68K with a cp/m executive (the file system was on a second, z80 processor, that had a floppy drive). It's name was 'li' meaning a half lisp (but it had a simple, non-optimizing JIT compiler that directly generated 68K code)...' << this is at least the 3rd fella i've corresponded with who 'i tried to build lispm in '80s out of 68k'

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: your offsetting rotates (as e.g. ram on z80) or truncates? ( when message is shifted beyond the buffer bound ) ?

asciilifeform: for all i know, you could match 'z80' performance with simply modified cathode tube where the beam steers depending on what the state of the phosphor under it was, rather than moving in linear rasters.

asciilifeform: btw -- and iirc we had the thread -- there are even deeper crackpotteries potentially in the mix : it is possible to have strictly magnetic logic, without semiconductor. if can simply etch fine metal mask, interleaved with insulator, potentially can have a kind of slow 'z80' from miniature toroid logic (as seen in '60s su)

BingoBoingo: Well, we could always try seeing how the Chicoms price modern Z80 implemented in cultured pig neurons

mircea_popescu: if i wanted the center caret of z80 rotated 90 degrees and printed, i could not get this done.

mircea_popescu: a universal tsmr cpu, even if nothing more than miniaturized/updated z80, would prolly be the one gain here. so we end up with a commodity part to put in things.

mircea_popescu remembers the good old days when parsing was done ~by the keyboard~, as in the z80 basic.

mircea_popescu: so anyway, if you find a z80 with that beta on it, you got a genuine ro made item.

asciilifeform: ideal cryptotron would have simply empty socket, bring yer own z80, specificityofdiddling, hah.

asciilifeform: ( for some conceivable applications, z80 remains more than adequate, and will remain so 50y from nao -- e.g. otp crypto, lamport, potentially -- btc walleting, etc )

asciilifeform: btw i still haven't tracked down a ro-made z80, most of my collection is from ddr

mircea_popescu: the golden age of the z80 games was principally driven by the fact that an intellectual unit (at the time, one guy + one gal) could churn out a game per season. most of the great "studios" of the time were this, coupla married math teachers.

asciilifeform: compared to life with this orc box, mircea_popescu was tsar and god with his z80 . but , behold, even in 100bytes you can do things.

a111: Logged on 2018-05-23 17:26 mircea_popescu: if and only if everyone's in chains, then and then only can you be entirely sure nobody's linked two z80 chips together and cycling "alf is a pooperhead" back and forth between them.

mircea_popescu: if and only if everyone's in chains, then and then only can you be entirely sure nobody's linked two z80 chips together and cycling "alf is a pooperhead" back and forth between them. ☟︎

asciilifeform: ( once in a veeeery long time, asciilifeform runs into some land-that-time-forgot where a greybeard owns the building and there are motherfucking blisterpacked z80's, 6502's, etc. hanging there, in dark yellowed plastic, since 1982... )

mircea_popescu: and with a well compressed, angry item like the z80, there's plenty of such "accidentally caught glimpse of santa naked" events

a111: Logged on 2017-12-13 19:30 mircea_popescu: (z80 thing when reset will munge the "videocard" such as it is, resulting in a pattern brieflydisplaying)

mircea_popescu: (z80 thing when reset will munge the "videocard" such as it is, resulting in a pattern brieflydisplaying) ☟︎

mircea_popescu discovered xor while trying to make z80 gfx as a 7-8-9yo.

mircea_popescu: prince of persia for z80 basically. epic for the 80s

mircea_popescu: (this is 99% of what they did, even the z80 clones were intended for production line control, which it was hard to get one at home0

mircea_popescu: he likes the z80 for the same reasons in the same way. and other obsolete matter.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-09#1735222 << returning briefly upstack, there's a 'seekrit' bit of hilarity : usg actually moving away from old, classic 'z80-style' dies, and into 'let's have modern density, so we can run javaturds, let ibm make 'space-grade' ppc , etc -- but that's ok, we'll use 8 in tandem ' ☝︎

asciilifeform: in the 'logical' sense , original z80 was only ~recently~ publicly reversed

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-03#1732711 << of course. back in the z80 days the whole memory could be printed out, wouldn't even take a whole book. more like what today passes for one, ie 40-50 pages' worth. ☝︎

mircea_popescu: i had to have custom fucking made kbd replacement put into teh old style timisoara-made z80 clones

a111: Logged on 2017-11-03 15:53 asciilifeform: http://www.homecomputer.de/pages/easteurope_ro.html#cobra << hilariously and unsurprisingly, ro z80 clone had better keyboard than today's 3000+ $ crapbooks etc

asciilifeform: http://www.homecomputer.de/pages/easteurope_ro.html#cobra << hilariously and unsurprisingly, ro z80 clone had better keyboard than today's 3000+ $ crapbooks etc ☟︎

asciilifeform: FG will work with, e.g., pdp8, sov. bk0010, romanian z80 clone mircea_popescu played strip poker on, but apparently not with recent pc on recent centos...

mircea_popescu: shit's not gonna be reading any ssds, dvds, etcs, so why the fuck is my 2gb sample of two girls fucking each other's ass on the brandemburg expressed in z80 units.

mircea_popescu: there is ~no benefit in maintaining a "quarter byte" antiquated notion, this isn't the museum of Z80 computing science.

BingoBoingo: <fromloper> Unfortuatly potential customers are most likely using Intel + Microsoft. Also in US we have Trump now. World sucks, but still need to live in it. << What's wrong with Z80 and Motorola 68k and Make Computing Great Again(TM)(R)

mircea_popescu: it's important to de-equivocate dumb ; there's two kinds of machine that may be casually referred to as dumb : one that is very slow (eg, z80) / one that is very demanding on the programmer (eg, windows). good programmer wouldn't really call z80 dumb, bad programmer wouldn't really call windows dumb. this directly translates to humans, there's a kind of dumb the incompetent identify mostly disjunct from the kind of dumb the c

mircea_popescu: gee. how big is a 22nm z80 lol

a111: Logged on 2017-03-13 00:13 asciilifeform: !~later tell phf i dug out my crate of dead bolix boards, turns out i'm a chump, the pcb in question was a dead xl1200 ~i/o~ board. the only cpu on it is what looks like a z80! 0 smbx silicon.

asciilifeform: !~later tell phf i dug out my crate of dead bolix boards, turns out i'm a chump, the pcb in question was a dead xl1200 ~i/o~ board. the only cpu on it is what looks like a z80! 0 smbx silicon. ☟︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2017-01-17 00:21 asciilifeform: to possibly squeeze something useful from thread: as i understand, a lamport-based 'trb-i' ~could~ run on z80.

asciilifeform: (though for n00bz i will point out, c compilers as a class did not get much play in the z80 days, because everybody programmed in asm (well, in codes, most folx asmed on paper , by hand)

a111: Logged on 2017-02-08 05:22 phf: asciilifeform: http://www.bdsoft.com/resources/bdsc.html "An 8080/Z80 C Compiler"

asciilifeform: it is part of why i have continued and daily interest in z80, 6502, and other 'museum pieces'

asciilifeform: to possibly squeeze something useful from thread: as i understand, a lamport-based 'trb-i' ~could~ run on z80. ☟︎

asciilifeform: btw there is one possibly interesting detail. there appears to be a large (how large, i have nfi) set of folks who publish ~actual~ work openly (recently i was on a kick of collecting 6502 and z80 design variations, adapted for present-day component availability for glue logic) and found a wealth of quality (as in, you lay it out on breadboard and it WORX) material. with multi-decade (yes) discussion.

asciilifeform: both scripting langs are turdalicious, heavy, and ill-defined. i will point out that 8-bit rom basics were seldom >4kB (e.g., 6502, z80 )

a111: Logged on 2016-12-13 10:54 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582433 << you know z80 editor was modal. caps shift an' symbol shift beotch!!1

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582433 << you know z80 editor was modal. caps shift an' symbol shift beotch!!1 ☝︎☟︎

asciilifeform: commodore (with the exception of the weirdo dual-cpu variant of the '128', and an expander cartridge for 64 ) -- never sold a z80

mircea_popescu: nah, z80, usually as a commodore

mircea_popescu: like it makes sense now to reverse z80

mircea_popescu: yes, but a z80 clone chip is no sort of fpga forcrying out loud.

asciilifeform grew up with 6502 (well, 6510, commodore) rather than mircea_popescu's z80, so it is dear to him