shinohai: Best I can tell he posted a link to theymos' personal info
shinohai: Which I freely posted 4 weeks ago and nothing happened.
mircea_popescu vaguely recalls blowing the dude's "cover" sometime in 2013 or w/e that glbse shares scam happened.
mircea_popescu: dude, you have no idea, i was looking at trilema article earlier and had nfi what it's supposed to be, even.
shinohai: Why does it irk me when people wear tshirts with blazers or suit coats.
mircea_popescu: well it's more like a burlap thing... call it a burlacket ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, no, dude's just new (post web 2.0) generation "seo expert" etc.
mircea_popescu: which kinda makes me suspect the whole field's ripe for a generation change. "feminism" is certainly shattered post trump, so it looks like there may be a 6th wave brewing. and the 2nd generation seo dorks who came online with the "social media" revolution and web 2.0 idiocies are mostly falling back into regular jobs and boring marital arrangements so there's a void, to be filled.
mircea_popescu: by people who do a lot of couch surfing and type on tablets.
thestringpuller: all the SEO people I know ended up going into machine learning
thestringpuller: only the girls end up fucking with google analytics in their 30s
mircea_popescu: anyway, as far as "online web industry" is concerned, definite signs of a trumpocalypse. sort-of how there was a pre fdr and a post fdr or a pre lincoln and post lincoln america ; there's going to be i suspect a pre-trump and a post-trump web
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: "During the manufacturing process, a unique set of keys are generated and stored in the processor’s fuse array. One of these fuse keys is not known by Intel and is one of the components used to form the basis for consistent derivation of subsequent sealing keys." << in other snorefest. "Unknown" to Intel during manufacturing...uh huh...
mircea_popescu: thanks god for tardstalk idea men, where'd we be without 'em
shinohai: I was looking into that time when Ver doxed the guy over (at the time) $50 and found that gem
shinohai says nothing about the cat at midnite again
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: dunno if helps. but recently invested in tempurpedic-like pillow due to sleep issues. neck support made a difference.
shinohai: I bought a down pillow at JCPenny but has been a bit
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform buy a coupla live ducks and oranges. make pekin duck and new pillows.
mircea_popescu: i think they use a mechanic plucker, ~beat carcass with sticks
shinohai: I saw that on trilema, so I know it's possible.
mircea_popescu: it's an old leisure suit larry idea. I SAW THE FACTORY
mircea_popescu: that doesn't really look like it's earlier than the lslilll
mircea_popescu: (incidentally, the characters look like ripoffs of lucky luke antagonists)
mircea_popescu: some crossover with tintin, but meh. the great us equivalent would be i guess popeye
mircea_popescu: (the newspaper edition, not the bastardized tv version)
mircea_popescu: incidentally : the 80s 37yo virgin never killed anyone. just wore his disco suit and applied himself.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ick no american synthetic turdolade plox. << AHA, you've had your fill of polyurethane foam? How much still adheres to the hands?
a111: Logged on 2017-01-14 01:07 mircea_popescu: a patch can only apply if ALL of its antecedents are present ; not if ANY of its antecedents are present
mod6: There's still a bunch more clean up and testing ahead, but a step in the right direction. o7
a111: Logged on 2017-01-19 15:25 asciilifeform: and before long, it will be impossible to actually get normal-people emacs running on any typical os.
trinque: gotta just stop; I'm never installing another emacs version again
trinque: I built on musl lots of times before
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 19:23 mircea_popescu: which i suppose warrants a general warning : DO NOT UPGRADE YOUR GCC TO 5.0! SAVE YOUR COPIES OF 4.X AND PRIOR!
mircea_popescu: anyway, the "leverage ecosystem" ie, "someone else will do our work for us" is very much usg.dos style, but also very much hopeless. seriously, they'll leverage ?
mircea_popescu: turns out i can bit mit with one hand while watching porn. they'll leverage what, they got nothing.
phf: seems like freenode upgraded all their servers to letsencrypt, meaning that you can't just verify ssl's fingerprint once a year. instead each server has own ssl, updated once in 90 days.
mircea_popescu: you understand nothing they leveraged works ? they ain't got a browser. google is trying to rescue 20 years of weveling with dubious results. there's no python 3. there's no ipv6. there's no trb. there's no eth. there's nothing. NOTHING.
mircea_popescu: problem being girls going "you can't go in here" only works on the other girls.
mircea_popescu: phf it's entirely unclear what ssl is supposed to provide. it might have been of marginal utility prior to their nsa merger, but these days it's utter waste of time. treat all freenode connections as plaintext.
trinque: 3k sales and he couldn't pay for a semi-literate lawyer ?
mircea_popescu: trinque "sales" here means usg sops style nothing, like obamacare isn't a tax. his thing was mentioned once on a forum with 3k "registered users".
trinque: these creatures must want to sign the papers.
trinque: and you get to be an elite renegade hacker on the dole, no less
mircea_popescu: anyway, so krebs has sob story about how republic successfuly denies empire comms ; and wants to add some sort of "but we pay to house some random bums for the rest of their lives so it's all ok"
phf: in unrelated lulz a u.s. retail bank is unable to send an international wire transfer. i bring a piece of paper with all correct requisites. half the numbers "i don't know what this number is", so follow up with calls for numbers from the fucking paper that, who could've predicted, are required. write down the numbers on their end incorrectly. the last part of saga: they now claim one of the numbers is invalid, but if you simply google for it it comes up
mircea_popescu: they very transparently pretend ineptitude, but it's pretty clearly fed instructions.
mircea_popescu: (and if you try to drive cash to mexico they'll try and steal it ; and if you eg open a foreign corp with a subsidiary in the us and send the money home they'll pretend you're engaging in money laundering, and in general expatriating your wealth is generally more difficult than it's worth, which is why sane people do not live in the us.)
mircea_popescu: also why eg apple doesn't wire to new york the proceeds of sales in paris.
mircea_popescu: conversely of course, every dollar you do take out of the us hurts the usg considerably ; i'd guess the going rate is 130k expatriated is about equivalent to shooting a nypd officer in the face.
phf: might just have to fall back to cash, i was trying to be prim and proper, alas
a111: Logged on 2017-01-19 16:28 mircea_popescu: yep. usg banks won't do intl wires, for a decade+ now
mircea_popescu: well supposedly in moscow there also lived a fellow who always found fish at the meat shop and to this day has nfi what everyone was on about.
mircea_popescu: incidentally this'd have been a great show, i imagine, guy going on street idly, happening on meat shop just as the truck unloads, and generally doing a grand blond a la chaussure noire but a la russe.
mircea_popescu: which yes, subtext :D how did you call these ? they were sopirle in romanian
phf: so i called the new branch of the bank i'm transferring to, they confirmed the ifsc number. i'm not sure what i prefer, the fed theory or the incompetence theory. either...
phf: i thought little axes were standard issue item, sort of like a sapper spade
a111: Logged on 2017-01-19 15:55 trinque: I built on musl lots of times before
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
phf: did anybody do a musl sbcl? i have a musl cmucl in the backlog, but way down the list (perhaps once i get this x60 going)
phf: but i think sb-unix exposes some kernel level shit, because need it for reading files and exec and such
phf: so i don't know how sbcl does it, but cmucl has unix.lisp, which kernel relies on early on in the operation, and yes, contains all the "talk to the world" crud. cmucl actually does some hack where only subset of unix is used for operations and then when you (require unix) it adds some of the userspace
trinque: phf: the gentoo musl overlay has sbcl patches iirc. gotta forgo threads
phf: there's was a wip fork of making linux-unix.lisp talk directly using syscalls without libc. that's probably lowest common denominator
phf: who knows with threads, i wouldn't be surprised if sbcl touches them in very inappropriate, glibc specific ways
phf: one of the major reasons why porting cmucl might be easier, a lot more naive image construction (doesn't have that whole sb! sb- machinery), and lack of threads
phf: *porting cmucl to raw iron
phf: cmucl is basically a very straightforward lisp machine port, so there's less unixisms built in. sbcl is modernized for unix, but with corresponding tradeoffs
phf: well, you were right, it's the lack of threads. you can't build for cmucl green threads like it's native.
phf: no, i'm not that far in the stack to tackle threading. because of goals, if i do, or once i do rather, i'll just work on making them better green threads, rather than native.
trinque: asciilifeform: yeah works; I had it built against gtk2, -dbus, etc
phf: well, stali has a musltronic pdf reader and web (they have their own wrapper around webkit, called st i believe, which is literally just a frame with addressbar)
phf: re cmucl threads i think that it doesn't always preempt correctly. like it has explicit yield, which you don't always have to call, but it being there implies. also hunchentoot wasn't working right without putting a yield somewhere in the scheduler. it's all very vague, because i've not spend any time looking at it
phf: there's some strategy in building multithreading in a lisp that all the commercial lisps share with cmucl and that's different from sbcl, but i'm not quite sure what it is yet
phf: so cmucl introduced this whole idea of vops (virtual operation)
phf: it's sort of "writing assembly with sexp", but really it's an abstraction layer for what used to be microcoding
phf: so cmucl's compiler interleaves vops, while cmucl's interpreter uses vops as bytecode instructions
phf: well, that's not the right term to use. depending on a vop it either jmps, calls or inlines
phf: so eval directly on source, without a vm even?
phf: actually it's all a lot more clearer when you read the early cmucl papers. the mess grew in unix user space..
phf: you could maybe put cmucl's interpreter vm into l0, have vops as operations that you need but that you don't have in a vm (simd, floating point)
phf: fit cadr interpreter into l0 :P
phf: thestringpuller: which string did you use originally?
trinque quite interested to hear why asciilifeform barfed
trinque: ah ok, thoughts were connected
a111: Logged on 2017-01-19 17:31 asciilifeform: seems like a fully-musltronic, work-ready linux is possible, then.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-19 17:40 asciilifeform: or is it 'bytecode' a la tinyscheme?
a111: Logged on 2017-01-19 17:49 asciilifeform: the two major caltrops re 'iron lisps on x86' are 1) interrupts 2) dma
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i figured re p when i saw your padder attempt.
mircea_popescu: oh and also - automated ring buffer allocation. if you declare 8 bytes and write 9, you overwrite your first. YOUR first. not someone else's.
mircea_popescu: which'd be interesting if all pointers live as mod math.
mircea_popescu: your pointer is 0x88faf0:0a and god help you, if you wish to write 500 bytes in there all the better.
mircea_popescu: not necessarily operator, but also none of the current straight on addressing bs.
mircea_popescu: cpu can not address memory in the sense of "from here to eternity".
mircea_popescu: cpu can only address memory if the correct size (0a) is provided for 0x88faf0.
mircea_popescu: yah, but i want this quite exactly, for it to not be POSSIBLE for memory to be addressed as it currently is.
mircea_popescu: it must not be possible to read from x unless you correctly specify the ring size.
mircea_popescu: i want the cpu to not be physically capable of addressing it.
mircea_popescu: that doesn't mean the cpu die must be cast in such a way as to allow anyone else to do it.
mircea_popescu: if you fail to provide the buffer size, cpu reads 0 bits from address specified.
mircea_popescu: if you provide buffer size, and it is the correct buffer size for offset, you can read that many bits.
mircea_popescu: i suppose its tagged memory model does pretty much a superclass of the above
mircea_popescu: i don't insist re implementation ; was just included as example
mircea_popescu: anyway. all pointer references to read must be offset:size or no dice ; all pointer references to write may be offset, and will write mod size ; all pointer allocation specifies size and receives offset.
mircea_popescu: and literally &p:sizeof(p*) calls throughout all c, none of this current bs.
mircea_popescu: yeah and then interpreter bitches if wrong types, so it catches size issues by default.
mircea_popescu: my model is... well, aptly put, stick shift. ie, even if dudes wanna bitch about lisp, because "c is faster", the above STILL APPLIES
mircea_popescu: i must say candi_lustt made it obvious lisp is workable development. way the fuck faster than figuring out which stdio to include and dumb shit like that
mircea_popescu: large teams, small programs. not the other fucking way around.
mircea_popescu: good brothel = many whores, small building. not vice-versa. that's called "beachfront property".
mircea_popescu: incidentally, if the various dreppers etcs actually had any friends, the whole rot wouldn't exist in the first place.
mircea_popescu: it's quite evident from their gestalt they're coding with flashlight under the covers.
trinque: nah, the idea that these guys are using this as a substitute for healthy human interaction is spot on.
trinque: see the conferences, "social coding", hackathons, etc
mircea_popescu: dude... just get everyone to show up saturday night already, nevermind this dumb shit. buy some wine.
mircea_popescu: "i'm so terrifying of talking to that cute wallflower i'ma revolutionize the $name like $name for $name instead!11"
mircea_popescu: and in scandalous coincidence : me puts on pair of pants, at 3:30 pm. sticks hand in left pocket, out comes condom wrapper. sticks hand in right, out comes... different condom wrapper.
mircea_popescu: i guess i haven't worn these since i was last on roof.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-19 18:27 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it'd get quite painful for a large proggy.
trinque: it made an arena. good people like those.
trinque: and aside all other bullshit uses of "social coding", that ~was~
trinque: one can see what was useful in the experiment and not get fixated on the particular implementation
trinque has had plenty of good coding afternoons where one person drove keyboard and >=1 others hollered and pointed
phf: it uses the word "modern" a lot, but from cursory glance it doesn't look insane
phf: well, it's a lispm kind of architecture, with a single central controller, and extension boards of various degrees of dirty. though i guess the real "core" here is the opaque STM32
phf: i didn't know what stm32 was, i thought it was some PIC variation
shinohai: To me appears most of hull is cloth stretched over a frame, or are those wrinkles?
ben_vulpes: dog if that's a jet fighter i'm the ceo of apple
ben_vulpes: i was certain that we'd done the 'omg cmucl compilation' lolz thread before; is this a time loop? where are picard and riker
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 02:43 asciilifeform: ## Recompiling CMUCL is not an exact science... ##
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 02:57 mircea_popescu: how can you lot put up with these idiots ?
mircea_popescu: honeslty, should probably go with whatever either phf used to run btcbase or ben_vulpes used to run candi.
phf: nyef actually spent a lot of effort trying to put sbcl on raw hardware, and he's a competent hacker (he also did sbcl port to arm for example)
mircea_popescu: because dma and interrupts ; and bad memory addressing.
mircea_popescu: the problem with "string" isn't there just to fuck with mp's ai bot.
mircea_popescu: this octet from/to uart doth not exist as such on extant hardware.
phf: asciilifeform: there are text files (he makes adequate technical logs of most of his efforts. i'm using his notes to recreate arm port for cmucl), but i won't be able to find them at the moment (i'm not on my main machine)
phf: i'm pretty sure he was doing around the same time as you were doing loper, so i'm surprised you haven't seen it. i think he might've been doing it under TUNES umbrella
mircea_popescu: you will not "whittled down to 'get char', 'put char', 'malloc'"
mircea_popescu: i don't recall, what was the objection to tinyscheme as the root ?
phf: so far only person who wrote anything for tinyscheme is myself, and tinyscheme is more of a PoC than anything else. bignums for example were ~unreasonably~ expensive
phf: "<nyef> (Speaking as someone who wrote his own standalone Forth and then used it to load a stripped-down hacked SBCL core on bare metal x86.)"
phf: actually i should probably track his notes down, but it might be easier to just ask him
ben_vulpes: occasionally i ask a question and someone answers
ben_vulpes: "bike" is useful, "beach" is responsible for some amount of CLIM...
jurov: asciilifeform: i think these somebodies went on to make their own lisp dialect, using python build system or jvm or llvm or somesuch
mircea_popescu: i have nfi why it has to come in scattered 2 page text files
mircea_popescu: they should hang kids in jr high by their ballsac until they learn to blog every day.
phf: he used to have a top level domain with artifacts that he was producing. txt files of notes, diffs for sbcl etc
mircea_popescu: phf that shitty "lisphacker.com" thing that spits the most obnoxious errors, really bitch, "no such key" ?
mircea_popescu: (nyef = alistair bridgewater, from the pw:rn subdirectorate of intel)