log
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asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 1st ed opteron ??
mircea_popescu: yeh
asciilifeform: neato
mircea_popescu: perfectly adequate for prod, by my lights.
mircea_popescu: in any case, served a lot of trilema over the years.
asciilifeform: sometimes -- 486 suffices...
BingoBoingo: And sometimes Z80
mircea_popescu: im altogether uncertain what one gains by replacing ~2005 iron with 2010-2020 iron, but anyway.
asciilifeform: ssd raid5.
asciilifeform: and gb nic. that's pretty much it.
mircea_popescu: pretty sure gb nic works on ye olde opterons just as fine. raids are iffy, depend on all sorta bs ; but definitely exist such thing as proper raid controller in 2005.
mircea_popescu: why ssd specifically ? raid is raid, can raid tape if you want.
asciilifeform: pcie bus bottleneck
mircea_popescu: incidentally, have you measured any of those gb nics you run, how often they actually gb ?
asciilifeform: i suppose oughta add, afaik nobody made in '06 box where i can 256GB ram
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes measured, mine do
mircea_popescu: i dunno doing what ; even something like the ssh census worked fine on 100mb interface.
mircea_popescu: certainly wholesale fetlife rape is still <1mbps.
mircea_popescu: but i suppose if you're running a camwhore site or something.
mircea_popescu: !!up verisimilitude
deedbot: verisimilitude voiced for 30 minutes.
verisimilitude: I appreciate it, mircea_popescu.
mircea_popescu upped for liking the name. who might you be, then ?
verisimilitude: I suppose it would be easy to introduce myself by linking to my website.
verisimilitude: http://verisimilitudes.net/
verisimilitude: I'll explain my big project as of now.
verisimilitude: For the past several years I'd had the idea of a machine code development tool in my mind and for over a year now I've been working to breathe life into it.
verisimilitude: I call this Meta-Machine Code (MMC) and the article detailing it in general is here:
verisimilitude: http://verisimilitudes.net/2017-07-07
verisimilitude: I stopped by to perhaps get your opinions or to see what you all are working on lately.
mircea_popescu: http://verisimilitudes.net/2018-08-28.read << you wrote this ?
verisimilitude: Yes.
verisimilitude: I didn't write the game, but I did write that document.
asciilifeform looks...
verisimilitude: It has embedded ECMA-48 control sequences for color.
verisimilitude: I've been meaning to refine it and also have a version without color.
verisimilitude: I haven't done that yet, though.
asciilifeform: 'The Masturbation Language' loox like stock unmodded classical 'brainfuck'
asciilifeform: what's the diff ?
verisimilitude: It's homoiconic with the = function.
verisimilitude: It either copies the program into memory or the memory to be executed.
mircea_popescu: well, as to the specific question, this "mmc" item will require some looking.
asciilifeform: dare i to ask what is gained from this ?
mircea_popescu: how did you come across the forum anyway ?
verisimilitude: I wanted to make a derivative of P" and Brainfuck that was difficult to compile and also make a crude joke.
asciilifeform: lemme guess, was it via asciilifeform's www
verisimilitude: Yes; I know of here because of you, asciilifeform.
verisimilitude: I assume you're Stanislav.
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: ever read the #trilema logs ? or just this minute found it
verisimilitude: That's just to make certain I don't start out confused.
verisimilitude: I've not read them in any detail; I take it I have it wrong, then.
verisimilitude: So, I should write I'm only familiar with this channel because of loper-os.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i highly recommend it, right now you're in approx the position of that random fella who sat down in a cargo plane and took off on a lark
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: http://btcbase.org/log/
mircea_popescu: http://archive.is/SjWP7 << amusingly, there's a very similar wankfest, missing the s.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: also highly recommend to make yourself a pgp key, and reg with deedbot,
asciilifeform: !!help
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/help.html
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: then will be able to speak and come into perma-relation with other people.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lol i have a bunch of photos just like that of timis orcs
verisimilitude: I'll consider it.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i have quite a few items in own notebook similar to yours, from decade+ ago. lemme guess, were you stuck on uninhabited island ?
asciilifeform: ... prison ?
verisimilitude: No; I'm just bored.
asciilifeform: 'The SHUT-IT-DOWN Common Lisp Library' << notbad name.
trinque: plenty of places similar to uninhabited island that one can find
asciilifeform: http://verisimilitudes.net/2018-02-02 << are you familiar with...
asciilifeform: !#s mips.v
a111: 5 results for "mips.v", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=mips.v
mircea_popescu: i seriously am going to have to drop 2.x kernels ? this is kinda scandalous.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i suspected the kernel thing will be uphill.
mircea_popescu: im willing to bet nothing worth the mention was added since 2.6 that can't be added in an improved format to great gain.
verisimilitude: I wasn't familiar with that, no, asciilifeform.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i wouldn't be opposed to at least attempting to backport 3.x driverola to 2.6
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: but i'm not particularly excited by idea of losing rk
mircea_popescu: why would you have to lose rk ?
mircea_popescu: i don't want losing rk, wut.
asciilifeform: cuz it's 4.x with a pretty large ball of poorly delineated patchola
mircea_popescu: yeah but i mean...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see, them little pogolike things, have entire constellation of entirely non-pclike subdevices
asciilifeform: pretty much whole i/o set
mircea_popescu: so ?
mircea_popescu: is your idea drivers won't link against 2 line kernel ?
asciilifeform: not as-they-are, no
mircea_popescu: you compiled these though ? or binball ?
asciilifeform: linus et al diddled the api repeatedly.
asciilifeform: compiled
asciilifeform: the only binball is that coupla kB of ddr ram init thing.
asciilifeform: it runs prior to uboot.
asciilifeform: there's another, larger one, if you want to use the hdmi display thing, but i dun use it anywhere
mircea_popescu: conceivably this might run ? ie, not running currently because never tried, not necessarily because impediments ?
asciilifeform: i'm quite certain that it can be made to.
asciilifeform: but currently do not know with how much fiddle.
mircea_popescu: mind giving it a seeing to ? it'll be a very useful heuristic, imo, "get rk drivers on 2.6 kernel"
mircea_popescu: sorta like a sonar blast to see under this iceberg peak.
asciilifeform: already begun to look into it.
asciilifeform: would be neato imho if we could bring 2.6 back to life trb-style.
asciilifeform: ( whoknows, maybe asciilifeform could regain his 64MB toshiba... )
asciilifeform: iirc phf has one too
asciilifeform: ( hey phf ! )
mircea_popescu: i would propose ~none of yhou use it for no serious reason, like http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853922 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-24 23:24 trinque: the kernel in current cuntoo is 4.9.95, by virtue solely of being when I took the snapshot
asciilifeform: pentium 166.
mircea_popescu: "i just happened to get dragged to 3.6 line along, dunno"
asciilifeform: typically folx dragged by irons.
mircea_popescu: but if this is not so, i'd much rather find out sooner than later.
mircea_popescu: no, typically folks dragged by the please-upgrade.php.rss
asciilifeform: cant speak for others, but not i.
mircea_popescu: the entire http://trilema.com/2011/nu-mai-faceti-upgrade-la-nimic-niciodata/ stance relatively late in everyone's mind, kernels earlier.
asciilifeform only ever built a +ver'd kernel when ran into a piece of i/o iron that could not be brought to life any other way
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> i'm quite certain that it can be made to. <
asciilifeform: well in principle anyffing 'can be made'
asciilifeform: q is with how many years inside pyramid.
mircea_popescu: aaanyways. this needs some looking into
asciilifeform: verily.
asciilifeform: http://verisimilitudes.net/2018-08-18 << nostalgic
asciilifeform: i suspect verisimilitude will enjoy the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-11#1822445 thread. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-11 16:17 asciilifeform: here's a historical lul that mircea_popescu might find stimulating. asciilifeform ( and his brother, and a whole generation of folx ) grew up with a certain orc '100 bytes of ram, but hey it's fucking programmable' little box, http://www.alfredklomp.com/technology/mk-61 . and the Official b00k for it ( http://publ.lib.ru/ARCHIVES/G/GAYSHTUT_Aleksandr_Grigor'evich/_Gayshtut_A.G..html ) had various games (typically you had to draw on g
verisimilitude: I'll take a look.
verisimilitude: I have an MK-61, but no use for it.
asciilifeform: there is ru proverb, 'a spoon is good at dinner time'
asciilifeform: the time to have the mk61 was when you were 5, i suspect
asciilifeform: so, you won't be running emacs on it, no.
verisimilitude: I like my HP 48 series calculators more, yes.
asciilifeform: i got one of'em decadent western hp48 also, yes
asciilifeform: for roughly same purpose ( once in blue moon can pull it out and pretend the year is 1988 )
verisimilitude: I've noticed only one result in the logs for ``yeeloong''.
asciilifeform: !#s loongson
a111: 27 results for "loongson", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=loongson
asciilifeform: ^
asciilifeform: !#s rms laptop
a111: 8 results for "rms laptop", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=rms%20laptop
verisimilitude: Alright.
verisimilitude: Anyway, I'm fortunate enough to own one of those.
asciilifeform: extinct, sadly, item, that thing
verisimilitude: I didn't even pay $400 for it.
asciilifeform: over the years i tried to locate one, somewhere, for some money, 0 dice
verisimilitude: I mostly use it as an OpenBSD Emacs machine.
asciilifeform: i ( and iirc mircea_popescu also once ) tried to buy 'elbrus' also, 0dice
asciilifeform: 'not for people'
asciilifeform: !!up verisimilitude
deedbot: verisimilitude voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: you'll really want to reg with deedbot if yer interested in further doings.
verisimilitude: I suppose I can use the Yeeloong to generate a PGP key.
asciilifeform: do it with pdp11 if you like, but highly recommend to do it asap.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu rarely voices n00bs any moar these days.
verisimilitude: It's because I own this hardware that I intend for the first MMC targeting a ``real'' machine to target MIPS. I decided if I ever got one, I'd try to understand it well enough to run my own software directly on the bare metal and in the boot firmware.
verisimilitude: The boot firmware is awful, however.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i've been looking into ( and if you read logs, will know this... ) baking a mips machine.
asciilifeform: from 0
verisimilitude: There's bits of GNU, Linux, OpenBSD, Solaris, K&R C, and other nonsense strewn about; there's Perl programs generating MIPS assembler; C programs that clearly invoke undefined behavior and so only work by chance; and other such things.
verisimilitude: That's interesting.
mircea_popescu: verisimilitude you might as well get one of the rks over in the republica oriental. arm boxes.
asciilifeform: in fact, quite likely i'ma bake it as soon as mircea_popescu blows the trumpet and decrees that it's time.
verisimilitude: ARM is certainly a better architecture than MIPS ever can be.
asciilifeform: i fucking hate arm, as an arch
mircea_popescu: well, in any case fitter for your prototyping needs as i can see them atm.
asciilifeform: ( as a cheap iron from chinesium, currently -- king )
mircea_popescu: moreover, a bit of a republican standard, so liable to get more attention.
asciilifeform: wartime standard.
verisimilitude: I'm rather fond of Big-Endian CISC machines, but those are all rather dead nowadays.
asciilifeform: really there is no fucking reason there needs to be more than 8 cpu instructions.
verisimilitude: If you have eight instructions, you're inevitably just going to have a large amount of meta-instructions all the same.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: verily, i tried with own hands to source a m68k for modern manufacture, and failed utterly
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: just as well.
asciilifeform: i want my 4000 transistor cpu and i'ma get it.
verisimilitude: Well, good luck to you.
asciilifeform: and they'll be optically visible, through window, no less.
mircea_popescu: and issue a paper slip per instruction, for hand-writeoff
asciilifeform: lol
mircea_popescu: IN TRIPLICATE
asciilifeform: bahahaha
verisimilitude: From my perspective, it would probably be easiest to collect several old home computers and make certain they produce identical results, to get reasonably reliable and trustworthy computing.
mircea_popescu: beedog will replicate the politburo-computer.
mircea_popescu: verisimilitude whole fucking republic consists of this.
mircea_popescu: heck, current trilema header is me with ye olde hp in istanbul.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-15#922644 << see also !111 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-11-15 00:28 asciilifeform: one would read instructions. another, turn a wrench, whatever. third would check that 2 corresponds to 1. then, all three sign under that step in recipe.
mircea_popescu: !#s thinkpad
a111: 97 results for "thinkpad", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=thinkpad
verisimilitude: I'd wager I could fit an MMC targeting the 6502 in 64K with only minimal bank switching for larger programs.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i've an unbuilt 'btc wallet on 6502' item, for instance.
asciilifeform: socket sits either the current one from western inc. or period '80s unit.
verisimilitude: I take it ``unbuilt'' isn't code for ``broken''.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: no, means that you cannot buy it presently.
verisimilitude: Alright.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: y'know how in old arabian tales, fella gets audience with sultan ? gets little bit to speak his bit
asciilifeform: that's you right nao
asciilifeform: i recommend to reg key, won't repeat again.
verisimilitude: I'm generating it right now.
asciilifeform: good; i'ma rate you
verisimilitude: You must understand that I'm very lazy.
asciilifeform: i also lazy
asciilifeform: drop the pub in p.bvulpes.com and !!register url
verisimilitude: Alright.
verisimilitude: What brought you people to freenode, though?
verisimilitude: I'd expect those this concerned would host their own IRC.
verisimilitude: Freenode would really be fine with me, if it didn't block Tor.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: mircea_popescu , and he historically built 'cheap and angry' . quite likely will migrate off fleanode in not long.
asciilifeform: !#s tor
a111: 1157 results for "tor", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=tor
asciilifeform: ^ will def. want to read, i suspect.
verisimilitude: Alright.
verisimilitude: Once I get this PGP nonsense sorted out, I'll tell you a story.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: once rated, you'll be able to speak on own time, and other folx will read in log when they wake.
asciilifeform: ( and sometimes answer. )
verisimilitude: Oh; I don't have PGP on the Yeeloong; oh well.
verisimilitude: Alright.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: make key, you will be able to swap it later by asking politely of trinque
asciilifeform: ( don't lose the key )
verisimilitude: I'll try, but I can't make any promises.
BingoBoingo: Think of it this way, how many years have you kept your kidneys without losing them?
verisimilitude: Well, it probably wouldn't be this long if I really had to give it that much thought.
asciilifeform: it is not so difficult to not lose a coupla kB
trinque: it's just that in-group signaling about "tee hee lazy"
asciilifeform: folx manage to stow all sortsa rubbish, for decades
trinque: the in-group cuts the other direction here.
verisimilitude: I'm mostly just joking around, yes.
verisimilitude: You saw through right through me, trinque.
asciilifeform: trinque: errybody went to kindergarten, once.
trinque: verisimilitude: anyhow I wont mind swapping your key later if you want to generate one in more sanitary conditions later, provided you sign for me the new key with old.
verisimilitude: Alright.
verisimilitude: If I don't get it before I run out of time again, I'll just do it later.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: you have roughly half hr, cuz i gotta get up soon
verisimilitude: Alright.
asciilifeform: ( i dun think it took me > half hr to bake pgp key )
verisimilitude: I'm having issues on my Thinkpad with it. I didn't have all of the software installed here.
verisimilitude: On that topic, I've been using GuixSD for a bit; what are you using, asciilifeform?
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-10-10#1295983 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-10-10 12:08 mircea_popescu: deedbot- http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/gnupg-1.4.10.tar.gz.asc
BingoBoingo: Informerly local news: https://www.bnd.com/news/politics-government/election/article218745425.html#storylink=hpdigest << I have met two of those derps from the experience of having met them.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: old gentoo
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: laugh if you like , asciilifeform's 1st thought was 'bundesnachrichtendienst ?!!'
BingoBoingo: lolololol
asciilifeform: verisimilitude has quit (Remote host closed the connection) << loox like he ran out of gas for the modem...
asciilifeform: damn.
asciilifeform: i'ma bbl, then, meat queue overfloweth .
mod6: laters
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854166 << i live under the impression this is automatic, just reg new key and v with old key ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-25 01:06 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: make key, you will be able to swap it later by asking politely of trinque
trinque: nope, I have not had time to implement that
asciilifeform: trinque: imho oughta stay manual
asciilifeform: trinque: key swaps oughta be handcranked and reasonably rare.
asciilifeform: ( like all other critica
asciilifeform: l reactor ops )
asciilifeform will bbl, over something that aint a speakandspell lol
mircea_popescu: a ok
asciilifeform: narrowly missed answring http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1853975 : i move 100GB+ barrels of vm liquishit over gb nics ~weekly, on lan, would suck on 100m. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-25 00:10 mircea_popescu: but i suppose if you're running a camwhore site or something.
asciilifeform: ( and backups, and isos, etc etc )
asciilifeform: my boxen speak 9000x moar to each other , bitwise, than to net
asciilifeform: ( is this actually not so in anybody's household ? )
asciilifeform: of course also got boxen pumping MB+/s to net, day an' night, and i ~like~ that they dun saturate the lan while so doing
asciilifeform: could go on, but imho oughta suffice, gb nic 'from my cold dead hands'(tm)
asciilifeform: ( lulzily i got sensors, uarts, etc on 10m nics all the while... on modern day switchen this worx without interfering )
mircea_popescu: ah
mircea_popescu: i... don't do that.
mircea_popescu: and no, most boxes speak 1mn:1 more to the net than to me. and if this weren't the case, i wouldn't keep 'em.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/the-urban-rural-dichotomy-in-terms-of-the-cycles-of-power/ << Trilema - The urban-rural dichotomy in terms of the cycles of power
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853774 -> so max len goes down to 2048? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-24 19:43 mircea_popescu: diana_coman it occurs to me the work might also be misspecced. anyone have serious objections to moving to 1-2048 down from 1-65536 ?
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853827 -> sounds at least like something worth getting some data on, yes; I wouldn't even be surprised if ~any frag results in mostly lost packets ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-24 20:17 asciilifeform: well yes : conceivably 'frags in 2' worx ~100% of time, but 'in 8' not etc
deedbot: http://bimbo.club/?p=28 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 9/19/2018
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854219 -> tiny new pilot test seems to suggest it's not as bad as that: all 100 packets of a batch (sent in burst mode, no delays) made it, with pseudo-randomly chosen sizes between 6 and 2048; predictably though, order was messed up at times ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-25 09:06 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853827 -> sounds at least like something worth getting some data on, yes; I wouldn't even be surprised if ~any frag results in mostly lost packets
diana_coman: following from the above: currently order and order-mismatches *can* be calculated at data analysis time based on the 2 logs; alternatively, I could add another 2 octets to the tester's own header to store an order number so receiver can also report directly any order-mismatch - not sure if that's worth it though, any thoughts on it?
diana_coman: ftr tester sends as above payloads between 6 and 2048 rather than 0 and 2048 because the first 6 octets are the header part (things like size sent and time when sent)
diana_coman: for completeness, the logs from the new pilot test: sender log is http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SdU8P/?raw=true and corresponding receiver log is http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/OXUWa/?raw=true
diana_coman: the last column in the receiver log is now a count of payload octets that are different from what is expected - if any such octets are observed, the receiver will log now their actual position + value in a different log file; so far I haven't seen any error of this type
diana_coman: the pilot test is UK -> UY (same as yesterday's)
diana_coman: uhm, correction re above since I messed up the pilot test earlier (sender sent 100 as shown, but receiver waited for only 50 and then turned off so not much use); updated pilot test with receiver properly looping forever and sender sending 100 packets: 81 of those made it; sender log: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/zs4p5/?raw=true ; receiver log: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4qiPb/?raw=true
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i suspect that the % of surviving fragged packets will drop as you saturate the link ( with e.g. GB thrown at line speed )
asciilifeform: esp if all fragged ( e.g. test with size of 2048 strictly )
diana_coman: I can certainly run such a test too if we want to check that specific situation; now that I got ~everything in place, knobs can be easily turned for sure
asciilifeform: i strongly suspect that heavy (i.e. always-fragged) packets are not ultimately a bw win
asciilifeform: diana_coman: have you tried in reverse path ?
diana_coman: logically speaking, one wouldn't expect them to be, no; the foggiest part atm for me is that interval from ~512 up to ~1500
asciilifeform: possibly 508
asciilifeform: but yes
diana_coman: no, I am still fuzzing about; but will try in a bit
asciilifeform: aite, i'ma not distract then
asciilifeform bbl
asciilifeform: diana_coman: lemme know btw if you'd like to send me the sender and do a packet survival run to/from asciilifeformistan
diana_coman: will do; I can think of a few other routes as well but possibly first have it run on one route for a while and then expand
mod6: mornin'
diana_coman: hi mod6 !
diana_coman: asciilifeform, ftr, just ran a batch 100 packets from UY to UK and... 19 made it! oh boy
mod6: 81 just vanished?
diana_coman: but it does seem to be just too much for local setup/saturating basically
diana_coman: mod6, yes! onth a batch of 20 packets only rather than 100 made it fully
diana_coman: even 41/50
mod6: the missing ones didn't hit the interface either? i.e. they were lost in transit, not once they hit your interface?
diana_coman: mod6, as far as I can tell they got lost in transit but I don't know *how close* to the machine itself (this UK machine is behind a router, I've set up port forwarding for it); basically atm the UK->UY vs UY->UK is pretty much client->server vs server-> client communication
mod6: Ah. running tcpdump at all to log the traffic?
diana_coman: I had tcpdump sniffing at same time and it reported same 19, not more
mod6: huh, weird.
mod6: any chance that the data got consolidated into less packets?
diana_coman: tbh if anything I start suspecting at most the router
diana_coman: I wanted to run this because it mimics much closer eulora client<->server communications but otherwise might set up different end nodes
mod6: *nod*
mod6: overall, sounds like you're making decent progress tho
diana_coman: from the previous UK->UY run, here's the latest version of logs (new: counter so that order of packages can be followed more easily): sender log http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/zktb9/?raw=true receiver log http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/2YPqs/?raw=true
asciilifeform: btw i'd like to share an old asciilifeform algo; not sure if directly applicable to diana_coman's proggy, but may come in handy: for synchronous packetron. to determine when to resend a packet, you wait time T; T is initially a pessimistic value, e.g. 800 msec; but once you start getting responses, you set it at all times to the ~minimal~ response delay observed thus far. and if reply wait exceeds T, you resend & restart the clock.
diana_coman: mod6, certainly; I'll wait pretty much for any feedback on it all and otherwise it's quite ready to run for a week or more (receiver always on, sender as some hourly cron taks)
diana_coman: task, lol
asciilifeform: ( naturally this is only applicable to synchronous, i.e. A->B, B->A, A->B, .... , comms )
diana_coman: asciilifeform, that sounds very useful for eulora clients basically
asciilifeform: possibly it it obvious algo. but wanted to put for the l0gz.
diana_coman: if/when they wait for specific replies
diana_coman: sure
diana_coman: asciilifeform, any feedback re latest logs? anything else you'd want in there?
asciilifeform: it makes for a slower than elsewise , but rearrangement-insensitive link
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'd like to see a test where there is only 1 size, across various sizes, if possible
asciilifeform looks at the data from earlier
asciilifeform: diana_coman: can you set it display the ones that ~didn't~ make it
diana_coman: asciilifeform, well, how can it know? i.e. they might come...later, no?
asciilifeform: afaik if it doesn't show up in a sec or so, it's gone
asciilifeform: there is not afaik a carrier pigeon link in use somewhere.
diana_coman: isn't this something more for next step at data analysis? (i.e. minus the two logs and highlight missing stuff)
asciilifeform: sure
asciilifeform: diana_coman: afaik, the remaining fundamental variants are 1) single-sized volleys, for various sizes 2) this, and the earlier variant, at max possible saturation
asciilifeform: 1 will more clearly show effect of frag, imho
asciilifeform: ( right now you get away with occasional frag, but possibly strictly because preceded/followed by unfragged, etc )
diana_coman: aha; meanwhile playing here with the dubious UY->UK direction and I'd say it's pretty clear that bursts of more than 50 packets or so increase packet loss visibly; I suppose this makes for a nice thing to look at specifically once I get one week of data or so
asciilifeform: i suspect this'll be very frag-sensitive
diana_coman: asciilifeform, apparently there is also various sizes bursts
asciilifeform: ( upstack -- one of the wins from synchronous variant is that you never saturate the link )
diana_coman: got 31/75 even when all sizes were below 300
asciilifeform: interesting
asciilifeform: and about on par with asciilifeform's experience
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i have a suspicion that saturation bursts trigger anti-ddos hackolade in some places
diana_coman: asciilifeform, that sounds possible
diana_coman will bbl
asciilifeform: i picture the end product as something like tcp but without the retardations.
asciilifeform: ( i.e. without the plaintext control messages, where any thirdparty derp can close your connection, infer contents via burst lengths, etc )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854224 << i don't think it is. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-25 11:13 diana_coman: following from the above: currently order and order-mismatches *can* be calculated at data analysis time based on the 2 logs; alternatively, I could add another 2 octets to the tester's own header to store an order number so receiver can also report directly any order-mismatch - not sure if that's worth it though, any thoughts on it?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854229 << ok this sounds more along expectations, (because "all made it" had me going wtf over here). so yeah, 80%ish sounds like we're finally in the right range, measuring something. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-25 12:30 diana_coman: uhm, correction re above since I messed up the pilot test earlier (sender sent 100 as shown, but receiver waited for only 50 and then turned off so not much use); updated pilot test with receiver properly looping forever and sender sending 100 packets: 81 of those made it; sender log: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/zs4p5/?raw=true ; receiver log: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4qiPb/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854241 <<< she;s gonna publish the code with the first batch of results, so anyone can / everyone's invited to replicate. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-25 13:37 asciilifeform: diana_coman: lemme know btw if you'd like to send me the sender and do a packet survival run to/from asciilifeformistan
mircea_popescu: look for next blogpost :D
mod6: cool
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854271 << that's what this is, dood. same size sent every hour "accross possible sizes" ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-25 14:57 asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'd like to see a test where there is only 1 size, across various sizes, if possible
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854282 << i don't get it, 50 packets / hour is less than 1 per minute. this can't saturate anything. are you doing the burst in the sense of just dumping all the packets on the interface in 2 s and waiting the 3598 other s idle ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-25 15:05 diana_coman: aha; meanwhile playing here with the dubious UY->UK direction and I'd say it's pretty clear that bursts of more than 50 packets or so increase packet loss visibly; I suppose this makes for a nice thing to look at specifically once I get one week of data or so
mircea_popescu: add a 1s delay between packets.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854293 << tcp is truly a worthless piece of crap. the more one looks at it, the more one doesn't want anyone involved with it anywhere near his shit. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-25 15:23 asciilifeform: ( i.e. without the plaintext control messages, where any thirdparty derp can close your connection, infer contents via burst lengths, etc )
phf: ave1: just fyi i punted on trying to get it operational on a "recent" linux. i hacked around the isystem issue, and ran into something else entirely downstream. also it is a "recent" linux issue, because it builds fine on as-heathen-as-it-gets centos 6.7 (2016 or so)
phf: my guess as to the issue is that the combination of flags required in order to bring up a "bootstrap" system has changed, bootstrap process produces a build that fails to stand on its own
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the braindamage of tcp, iirc, is elaborated in buncha old threads
asciilifeform: ( and there's megatonnes of shit iceberg beneath the tip, look some time at an actual implementation... )
mircea_popescu: phf paste the spew ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i've been on and off looking through for the past coupla weeks.
mircea_popescu: "Bingoboingo is being questioned about having ‘two imports’" hahaha this girl.
BingoBoingo: lol
mircea_popescu: hanbot any clue why the selection trick dun work on nicoleci 's blog ? was this not in the tree or ?
asciilifeform: !#s from:asciilifeform tcp
a111: 158 results for "from:asciilifeform tcp", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Aasciilifeform%20tcp
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> hanbot any clue why the selection trick dun work on nicoleci 's blog ? was this not in the tree or ? << It isn't in the mpwp v-tree, no
mircea_popescu: nicoleci "Discussion on if" is stylistically damaged.
mircea_popescu: "Discussion on how mircea_popescu does not like the new extension (v), as it fragments the sensata-perceptible identity of the v" << this is so fucking cute. what's sensata-perceptible, bimbo ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'catalogue of tcp braindamage' is prolly ripe for an article. ( sadly asciilifeform is mired in liquishit and prolly will not write it this wk )
mircea_popescu: im not fucking writing that. i don't like tcp enough.
asciilifeform: lol
mircea_popescu: i'm not writing the "lifestory of linus", either. for the same exact reason -- who the fuck is he ?
BingoBoingo: It also turns out default theme needs some poking to make the selection magic work as per spyked http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-13#1787763 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-03-13 20:25 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-13#1787759 <-- a-ha, mystery solved! Trilema has a <div class="post"> child to <span id="shash-...">, so that portion of the script selects it when the child is not a text node (the nodeType==3 bit). thetarpit DOM tree is flatter and doesn't wrap the content in this additional div. NB, will keep it mind should performance ever prove to be an issue.
mircea_popescu: and i didn't write the lifestory of rms, and so on. not everyone is c s lewis.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it does have the flavour of 'culinary shortcomings of dog shit' treatise, eh.
mircea_popescu: of martian poop. i don't even live on mars.
mircea_popescu: all through the attempt the question would be "why did you expect martian poop is culinary item" and i'd have no answer and it'd drive me mad.
asciilifeform: wouldn't go this far; dunno about mircea_popescu , but i'm presently connected to fleanode, trb, etc via tcp
mircea_popescu: i'm not.
mircea_popescu: i'm currently connected through the internet through sheer force of will, and there's a tcp thing trying to rape this.
asciilifeform: lol
mircea_popescu: fact.
mircea_popescu: this is not some "stylistical take", either. it is FACTUAL. exactly in the same manner of ring binder http://btcbase.org/log/2013-12-22#429394 discussion : ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2013-12-22 16:56 asciilifeform: 'what people “want” is a function of what they learn is available. e.g., do Americans want three-ring binders, and Europeans four-ring binders? or do they want binders and take whatever number of holes they come with? or do they want something that can help them organize their papers and take whatever is available? or do they really want a less cluttered office and ease of storage and retrieval of the infor
mircea_popescu: "people are keeping their office uncluttered through sheer force of will, and there's a bunch of crap trying to rape this, such as 'ring binders'."
asciilifeform: no i get it
mircea_popescu: what people want is what people want, and then "what is available" tries to fuck with this.
mircea_popescu: "i want a girl" "how about mary ?" process. if i wanted fucking mary, i'd have fucking said i want mary.
hanbot: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854317 >> as BB said, not in tree ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-25 16:15 mircea_popescu: hanbot any clue why the selection trick dun work on nicoleci 's blog ? was this not in the tree or ?
mircea_popescu: "but mp... eventually... you'll have to do SOMETHING." "yes, and even without that maybe eventually i will do something. this gives no one license to pretend the inadequacy of ontos is now gnosis' problem."
mircea_popescu: hanbot scheduled to patch ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: reminds of ancient convo b/w asciilifeform and pet : 'p : 'i want a shelfifier' a: 'you mean, a shelf' p : 'no, shelfifier' a: '...' p: 'device that produces shelf where and when needed, then removes' '
mircea_popescu: ikr ?
asciilifeform: aha!
mircea_popescu: most people emulate this by getting larger kitchen so headbang on cabinet less statistically likely. then they have more floor to clean.
asciilifeform: entirely so.
mircea_popescu: ~this~ is the fundamental problem of the world, and the whole fucking point of gnosis (as the cvasi-religious movement) : creator was ~evidently~ fucktarded, nothing to be proud of.
mircea_popescu: quarter-urge.
asciilifeform: makers of physical objects, i can reluctantly forgive for failing to produce shelfifier. but those of ideal objects -- for them there can be no forgiveness
mircea_popescu: eeeexactly!
phf: mircea_popescu, ave1 http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/QtjVR/?raw=true this was the log from the last invocation, but i'm not sure if it's representative of an issue. this was downstream from a handful of hacks and manual invocations
mircea_popescu: ty
mircea_popescu: just good to have, you never know what when where sparks.
phf: aye
asciilifeform: 'configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables' << wat
asciilifeform: 'See `config.log' for more details.' >> what's in there, phf ?
mircea_popescu: "phf: the problem with publishing ununderstood spew is that you're potentially publishing forever"
phf: :>
phf: well, i have some idea what's going on, the binutils build is attempting to use bootstrapped gcc, which in turn can't find its own link objects, one sec on log
phf: ^ http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/M42gA/?raw=true
phf: (relevant bits are at "cannot find crt1.o")
phf: (the previous error i mentioned in logs was probably using same compiler before it was installed into its destination, because it was being invoked with explicit -B flags (-B flag points to compiler bits explicitly). this new failing bootstrapped compiler would work if provided explicit -B which makes me guess that some phase that was supposed to get compiler into knowing where its bits are failed.)
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854304 -> burst is burst so yes, dumping all without any delay; among other things that's why those pilot tests, to decide on/if delay ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-25 15:58 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854282 << i don't get it, 50 packets / hour is less than 1 per minute. this can't saturate anything. are you doing the burst in the sense of just dumping all the packets on the interface in 2 s and waiting the 3598 other s idle ?
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854294 -> ok ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-25 15:37 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854224 << i don't think it is.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854298 -> certainly ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-25 15:40 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854241 <<< she;s gonna publish the code with the first batch of results, so anyone can / everyone's invited to replicate.
mircea_popescu: ic.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854302 -> I took that to mean he wants to select only those of a given size, hence ..yes, easy ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-25 15:57 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854271 << that's what this is, dood. same size sent every hour "accross possible sizes"
mircea_popescu: yeah, i don't think we're trying to study bursts or saturation here. rather a study of the route under best conditions so to speak.
diana_coman: k, will add delay 1 sec between packets at sender, not a problem
diana_coman: btw, there is no "idle", no; sender sends and finishes, what idle? it'll get started again by a cron task
diana_coman: receiver is always on, but there's not much point in sender being always on
diana_coman: (it can be done though, if one really wants it, basically an Ada task to be repeated hourly, but I don't see the benefit to that)
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: i just meant, "nothing happens"
diana_coman: ah, yes
diana_coman: to recap so I don't miss anything: no counter sent in header for packets; packets will have sizes between 6 (header length so minimum) and 2048; sender will have a 1second delay between each new package sent
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile i simply can't not quote this :
mircea_popescu: "It was a capital lecture so far as this, that the tutor who gave it had got up his subject completely. He knew the whole history of the Articles, how they grew into their present shape, with what fortunes, what had been added, and when, and what omitted. With this, of course, was joined an explanation of the text, as deduced, as far as could be, from the historical account thus given. Not only the British, but the foreign Re
mircea_popescu: formers were introduced; and nothing was wanting, at least in the intention of the lecturer, for fortifying the young inquirer in the doctrine and discipline of the Church of England.
mircea_popescu: It did not produce this effect on Reding. Whether he had expected too much, or whatever was the cause, so it was that he did but feel more vividly the sentiment of the old father in the comedy, after consulting the lawyers, "Incertior sum multo quam ante." He saw that the profession of faith contained in the Articles was but a patchwork of bits of orthodoxy, Lutheranism, Calvinism, and Zuinglism; and this too on no principle;
diana_coman goes to tweak the knobs again, will bbl
mircea_popescu: that it was but the work of accident, if there be such a thing as accident; that it had come down in the particular shape in which the English Church now receives it, when it might have come down in any other shape; that it was but a toss-up that Anglicans at this day were not Calvinists, or Presbyterians, or Lutherans, equally well as Episcopalians. This historical fact did but clench the difficulty, or rather impossibility
mircea_popescu: , of saying what the faith of the English Church was."
mircea_popescu: dude manages, 50 or so pages in, to fully explain the fucking problem. "i gave up on this idiocy because upon first serious examination -- idiotic". i can see that.
mircea_popescu: if only c s lewis went to the same oxford as j h newman! what ample oddles of bellybutton lint'd have been spared the examination! how much better the prose, and the world resting upon it.
mircea_popescu: it is the singular misfortune of the world that the sort of people who lived before computing lived before computing, and the sort living with computing are the sort we see around. i'd very much like these switched, give computers to that newman and give typhus to the current professor of logic.
ave1: phf, your error is in the AdaCore gnat gcc (gcc -version shows these boron.a directories)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: could easily not be unrelated tho
asciilifeform: for all i know, sanity requires typhus goin'round
ave1: phf: I suspect this modern systems has placed the C library and crt1.o etc in some wierd place
ave1: systems --> system
ave1: to debug it, just try to compile a basic C hello world with the AdaCore gcc (and also with the system gcc, with -v so that it shows you the paths)
phf: ave1: that is not what's going on
phf: by then adacore gnat gcc already managed to compile a whole bunch of stuff
phf: actually, that is what's going on! but i'm not sure how it got that way, because i've both tested adacore's gnat ahead of time, and also had it building things. something must've gotten clobbered
phf: well, the system in question also has empty /usr/include at this point. so yeah things got clobbered
ave1: wow, that never happed to me yet, if the scripts somehow can cause this please report!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform possibly.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/09/on-bail-cody-wilson-surrenders-weapon-development-project-to-new-director-active-in-arts-and-poetry-circles/ << Qntra - On Bail Cody Wilson Surrenders Weapon Development Project To New Director "Active In Arts And Poetry Circles"
mircea_popescu: hahaha
asciilifeform: imho there is substance to mircea_popescu's 'winblowz was created by supernumerary children who failed to find grave in time' hypothesis
asciilifeform: and oh ha
asciilifeform: so d00d linused himself on the stake, huh.
mircea_popescu: what the FUCK are "poetry circles" ? what fucking circles ? something like http://trilema.com/2015/mps-very-brief-foray-into-a-poetry-forum/ ? or not even ?
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> so d00d linused himself on the stake, huh. << Linus is a line in the Wilson piece because presumably Wilson at least got his nut off with the little girl who fucked him
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> what the FUCK are "poetry circles" ? what fucking circles ? something like http://trilema.com/2015/mps-very-brief-foray-into-a-poetry-forum/ ? or not even ? << That. Get high go to coffee shop with bongo drum, etc
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo linus got nut off with her stupid mother.
BingoBoingo: Cucking is a thing!
mircea_popescu: speaking of stupid girlfriends of naggums : anyone recall the "obituary" lulz ?
BingoBoingo: AHA
asciilifeform: yes!
asciilifeform: iirc site still up
BingoBoingo: Bitch only had to do three things: SOCKS and COCKS and Eulogy
mircea_popescu: lulziest shit ever, there was at the time a whole redditactivism thing that aimed to (somehow) hurtfully & distressfully associate trilema with the expression.
mircea_popescu: it... well inexplicably it went nowhere.
BingoBoingo: Whatever happened to sciencehatesMpsStalker
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hey, usg 3ringbinder talmud prolly decreed that they must try at least 11 times..
mircea_popescu: i can't begin to guess why it'd go nowhere, i mean, a) insulting people by using their own words often works (on retards, why would it not work on people who say what they mean & mean what they say ?) and moreover b) summarization works on everything else, why'd trilema escape it and c) wtf is this strategic superiority jazz and who ever heard of the rhino-mud-birthday-gift issue. and so on
asciilifeform: ( this is, i shit ther not, how they actually work, approx )
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo found bf/drug dealer, is happily working the ghetto streets now ?
mircea_popescu: there was a film about "successful negro reclaimed by streets", walk of shame.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Will investigate
mircea_popescu: of course, they gave it a "happy ending", but it's fucking obvious what ~really~ happened.
asciilifeform: 'Taipei police reportedly next handed Wilson over to the National Immigration Agency. Though Taiwan lacks an extradition agreement with the US...' << unsurprise
BingoBoingo: Related: Will be sleeping at a hostel tonight after spanish class to keep in touch with my roots. That and people give me the heads up when its pizza night (free calories).
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Looks like a standard east azn deportation
asciilifeform: lol , gotta ask what then'd be a 'nonstandard' ?
BingoBoingo: non-standard is they let the white devil take their wimmins with him
BingoBoingo: In other completely unsurprising finds the Linux cock writer is <b>MR.</b> "Coraline" Ehmke
hanbot: <mircea_popescu> hanbot scheduled to patch ? << iirc this is second instance of query. i'll patch it this week, yes.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: plox to check that emailbox asap
asciilifeform: err, lemme try that again,
asciilifeform: ok nao.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Reading
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: dafuq is 'DINAMA' anyway
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Reading up on it
asciilifeform: if we can't even get motherfucking crate of 300 $ disk mailed, will have to organize an expedition ahead of schedule.
asciilifeform: unless BingoBoingo pulls some magic out of his sleeve.
asciilifeform: cuz this is screamingly retarded.
asciilifeform: rk plant currently has 0 spare parts !!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm beginning to suspect enemy action (i.e. some 'well-wisher' made a call to 'the right organs' in orcistan, or somesuch )
asciilifeform: consider -- 3 crates went.
diana_coman: what'd DINAMA asciilifeform ?
asciilifeform: how the fuck would i know !
asciilifeform: full text : 'Estimado: Me informa el despachante que se encuentra inhabilitado para importar por DINAMA. Agradezco una vez regularice la situación nos informe para procesar el permiso. Saludos cordiales.'
asciilifeform: and this after derping for week+
asciilifeform: and various idjit orc forms, which BingoBoingo not only filled but hand-carried in.
BingoBoingo: DINAMA appears to be https://mvotma.gub.uy/dinama
diana_coman: to me it sounds very much like the usual bakshish/peshkesh request, lol
BingoBoingo: i.e. "environmentorast" agency
asciilifeform: diana_coman: normal people make bakshish request with a 'pay here'
diana_coman: asciilifeform, tsk, that's a fee!
asciilifeform: and it's been paid.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: iirc there was some physical place, to which you went ? perhaps time to go there once more.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: find out, what the everliving fuck.
BingoBoingo: Well, I'll have to read an go to the physical places tomorrow.
asciilifeform: read what ?? all we got is equiv of 'GURU MEDIATION ERROR 12345'
BingoBoingo: Well, wtf the office is and why they might complain.
asciilifeform: i mean, wtf, enviro ?! what, this model of usb stick is banned in uy because does not include enuff % cow shit by mass ??
BingoBoingo: And going has to be tomorrow because offices are closing for the day at this hour
asciilifeform: whereas the other, included ??
BingoBoingo: Maybe adhesive banned on hedgehogs?
asciilifeform: rrright, somebody bothered to open & sniff'em
asciilifeform: my arse.
asciilifeform: 'tis a crying shame that mircea_popescu doesn't live in uy... i suspect there's a cunt somewhere who needs flaying.
asciilifeform: slow, methodical flaying.
mircea_popescu: wait what ?!
diana_coman: my point above was that "derping for week+" + obscure "fault you have to fix" sounds precisely like "I keep asking for a bribe and I did not get any!!"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i think we have something like your earlier bank wire thing, going
mircea_popescu: heh
mod6: diana_coman has a point, aren't we supposed to grease the wheels in such a palce?
mod6: *place
asciilifeform: mod6: lulazon collected a ~30% bakshish prepay on all 4 crates to date; 3 made it, 4th -- somehow not
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, 1s delay seems to result at least on UK->UY direction on preserving even order at destination, at least at this hour; at any rate, I'll look at it tomorrow and unless I can spot some trouble, it should then be chugging along
mircea_popescu: alright.
mircea_popescu: unless dinama, amirite ?
diana_coman: ahahhaah
asciilifeform: lol, they would if they could
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854470 << lol, simmer down, you. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-25 21:03 asciilifeform: i mean, wtf, enviro ?! what, this model of usb stick is banned in uy because does not include enuff % cow shit by mass ??
asciilifeform: ( picture, tariff on packets )
mircea_popescu: the method you're currently using is and always was regarded as braindamaged at best.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: can you think of less braindamaged ? ( say i had budgeted 9000 spares for april expedition. then we'd be sitting on 8994 lemon drives. )
mircea_popescu: amazon whatever the fuck to your house, and either ferry it over in luggage or else mail it over in old newspapers. what you're trying to do is the mail equivalent of http://cascadianhacker.com/classically-inept-couriering
asciilifeform: the old newspapers is worth a shot. and if this fails, it'll have to run like antarctic station, i.e. supply rocket quarterly-semiquarterly, and priced in.
mircea_popescu: alternatively, source it locally ; or get a company off the ground already, get it a customs agent and process the crates there.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm satisfied that BingoBoingo sniffed erry possible local arse for local source.
asciilifeform: there aint any.
mircea_popescu: alright.
asciilifeform: 'customs agent' last time it was seen to, was cost-~equivalent to asciilifeform's magic trunk.
mircea_popescu: whatever you pick of that 5ish items list, the "let's see what happens if you amazon it over" was never more than that -- novelty lulz item.
asciilifeform: correct.
mircea_popescu: so then why getting excited.
asciilifeform: sorta why i posted a $5 cable the 1st time.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: do what remains to do to put a proper cross on the grave, and after that i'ma start taking cargo manifest calls.
asciilifeform: ( unless mod6 or ben_vulpes wants to be next. )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: and incidentally, dunforget , yer the chair nao ! so if you have smarter idea, plox to say asap.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform would it be fair to say the discount for risk-of-loss through this process is about 40% ? ie, 2 in 5 shipments are lost to it ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that's actually the part that set my blood pressure
asciilifeform: i.e. i have nfi whether '4 in 5' or '100% after 3'
mircea_popescu: ah.
asciilifeform: it's a winblowz-style eggog.
mircea_popescu: well in any case, 1.3 surcharge * 1.4 risk of loss means almost 200% the price.
asciilifeform: if this were a 'of 4 rockets, 1 falls into the sea' asciilifeform would not blink even.
mircea_popescu: in which case, simply shipping books or w/e seems competitive.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you ever talked to the chinos ? i mean specifically the supermarket folks. they routinely blocade run, might be able to get you some shit ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, the one point here that's not clear to me at all is why would anyone expect uruguayan law applies to us ? BingoBoingo is not a national, what fucking "dinama" ?
asciilifeform: afaik uy dun have an extraterritoriality thing with usa. ( and if it did, would we even be working with it )
phf: dinamo is a machine for extracting bablos from lohs, asciilifeform should know that. dinama must be a south american variant
mircea_popescu: what's that to do with anything ?
mircea_popescu: "i get it, you have a law about your peons not being allowed to buy shit. good. so ?"
asciilifeform: phf: lol was my 1st thought
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik erry uppity peonistan regards errything mailed there as customsable
mircea_popescu: maybe i misread, but that wasn't the problem ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the exact point of eggog is unclear to me, this is why i asked BingoBoingo to dig.
asciilifeform: all i got is that ??? email.
mircea_popescu: i understood the complaint as "apparently someone somewhere is under the impression BingoBoingo can't get 3490874389 crates shipped because there's a law about local morons being limited to 2"
mircea_popescu: which, whatever, if they don't yield fucking sue them
mircea_popescu: file papers for conversion/theft against the agency and one individual involved (pick whoever you least liked) personally and there you go.
asciilifeform: this was my impression as of this morning. and was also my impression that BingoBoingo went and danced the asked-for dance with the orcs, and thereafter eggog is to vanish. but turns out -- not.
mircea_popescu: if nothing else, will make great blogpost.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: unless i'm thick, this needs a specialist who's actually trustworthy, neh
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo can actually sue in his own name
mircea_popescu: conversion is a civil matter anyway.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: sounds like winning idea, imho.
asciilifeform: what's it even cost to file, in orcistan, cost of a whiskey?
mircea_popescu: if nothing else, will introduce him to the courts ; and open a whole new lolz front.
mircea_popescu: i don't expect it's expensive, no. besides, very likely will be arbitrated rather than adjudicated
mircea_popescu: (first phase of this will consist of local retards very intently repeating what BingoBoingo "has to understand" that "things is" and BingoBoingo laughintg his ass off)
asciilifeform: i'd normally expect would be dismissed with prejudice, under 'article 12345: we do whatever the fuck we want and suck it' but this is possibly biased by life in usa
mircea_popescu: it's not been my experience anywhere ; including the us.
mircea_popescu: it's biased by life in your own head, mostly.
asciilifeform: anyway i have no opposition to an experimental test
asciilifeform: there is no substitute for experiment.
mircea_popescu: I reached out to this new contact, one Martin << whatever happened to this fellow btw ? story as recorded by ben_vulpes seems altogether inconsistent with http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854501 ? did i miss some developments ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-25 21:18 asciilifeform: 'customs agent' last time it was seen to, was cost-~equivalent to asciilifeform's magic trunk.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes selectable text, when
mircea_popescu: amusingly, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854493 is right there in black and white : "Based on my experiences with customs both times, anyone taking hardware to Spaceship Montevideo must conceal as much of it in servers as possible, and unbag that which cannot be plugged in, as items that are "new in box" trigger the customs officials no end." ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-25 21:12 mircea_popescu: the method you're currently using is and always was regarded as braindamaged at best.
mircea_popescu: you've paid a lot of money to figure out "no items new in box", why not use it.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo you ever talked to the chinos ? i mean specifically the supermarket folks. they routinely blocade run, might be able to get you some shit ? << I'm trying to find restaurant Chinese here. The only Chinese Chinese I reliably come across are new chinese wearing suits and renting WTC to buy cows.
mircea_popescu: http://cascadianhacker.com/least-effort-signups-in-django/comment-page-6#comment-755 << there's also something straqnge going on there.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: prev 3 datapoints suggested 'can mail with 30% bakshish' ; but apparently yes, will have to return to orig hypothesis.
mircea_popescu: cows ?!
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: China wants to eat beef
BingoBoingo: Uruguay sells beef
mircea_popescu: ah ah
mircea_popescu: well, so talk to them
mircea_popescu: talk to people ; statistically it's always better to than not to.
mircea_popescu: it never yet happened that "my decision to not talk to this stranger paid off". seems counterintuitive, is nevertheless the case.
BingoBoingo: Will talk to them when they smoke circle outside the towers.
mircea_popescu: you know ?
BingoBoingo: There's a group that regularly smoke circles in front of the datacenter tower, will get on it.
mircea_popescu: you ever appeared pro se before a court before ?
BingoBoingo: I have indeed
BingoBoingo: Civil and criminal
BingoBoingo: Civil went better than criminal did
mircea_popescu: alrighty then.
mircea_popescu: moreover, uruguay is if memory serves civil rather than common law. even easier to do.
BingoBoingo: I'll look for a copy of the code at the Feria Sunday
BingoBoingo: They have one, one person wrote it, as legal writings go it can't be an awful read
mircea_popescu: good for spanish in any case, and to impress the peruanas.
BingoBoingo: Anyways, in the reading of the now it looks like it could be a small wank where I may have to register the business of myself as an importer of products packaged in non-reusable packaging
mircea_popescu: "for a date wed, you can come watch me in court"
mircea_popescu used to do this in his teens, to very moistening effect indeed.
BingoBoingo: My past civil experiences could have had that effect. The traffic court case over a 75 USD speeding ticket prolly not.
BingoBoingo: But yes this is a civil law system here, and I don't see why anyone who went to a facultad de derecho ought to have any chance if I do case prep.
mircea_popescu: well, also a matter of principles involved. "these schmucks stole my shit, what matters it was only $300" sounds a lot better than "i am so fucking cheap, ima try and beg mom to let me off hook for $75 in damages".
BingoBoingo: The principal in the traffic case was Pocahontas, Illinois (and the rest of Bond County) can be arsed to get the radars they buy used calibrated.
BingoBoingo: Or used them according to the manufacterer's instructions
mircea_popescu: pretty common, really.
BingoBoingo: But hamplanet judge wrote it off as "local standards" and who was I to take it to apellate court when Uruguay was calling
BingoBoingo: Anyways, reading more on DINAMA and Aduanas. At this moment it seems registering as an importer of packaged products and coming up with a waste management plan might do the trick: En el alcance del decreto 260/007 se establece que toda empresa importadora o propietaria de marca que pone en el mercado productos envasados, deben encontrarse inscriptos en el registro que llevala DINAMA y contar o adherir a un plan de gestión de residuos
BingoBoingo: de envases.
BingoBoingo: And... they specify "artículos eléctricos y artículos electrónicos"; Looks like I am getting a new piece of paper to hang on the wall.
mircea_popescu: "local standards" lmao. local physics, too, why not. "sir, do you know how fast you were going ?" "52mph" "nope, 7615!" "what ?! look my dear man, it says so right here" "ah, that may be how your car sees it... but here... WE HAVE LOCAL STANDARDS"
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo no fucking way, that's if you sell coca cola.
BingoBoingo: Or apparently if you sell USB drives in their shells
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: tell'em all waste is to be mailed to gringolandia
asciilifeform: ( i'm not even opposed, there's a rubbish bin right at the post office )
BingoBoingo: Reused as arts and crafts materials could work as well. These folks love their cardboard
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo but you don't sell anything. you're going to eat them
BingoBoingo: I eat them, customs folk can't imagine that, hippos dance, the lobos marinos sing, and at some point PizarroISP the musical will resound through the Gossipd equivalent of torrents
asciilifeform: i'm still scratching head, re how the contents of all those derp racks got there. diplobags ?!
asciilifeform: there were motherfucking pentium1's in there.
BingoBoingo: Plenty more reading to do before the relevant targets get into their offices tomorrow
asciilifeform: ( as well as ciscolade and the usual crapola, by the megatonne )
BingoBoingo: Diplobags isn't out of the question. This place is littered with embassies.
BingoBoingo: Not much to do but meet them at their level, put the chains on, and drag them with their words
BingoBoingo: Brb. pizza and reading and more reading
mod6 just had a good chuckle at the 'danced the asked-for dance'