shinohai: If you see a fatty, say fatty?
deedbot: gk_-1wm_- voiced for 30 minutes.
shinohai: It's terrible not being able to tell fat girls they are fat on twitter. Because if you do, then the hot camgirls hate you too.
mircea_popescu: girls engage in this sort of fatty grooming as a shit test. if you agree with her that her fat friend also deserves "a life" aka someone to pay for her children, perhaps you should.
ben_vulpes: also "trump administration bars news organizations from press briefing, replaces them with fake news organizations"
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, the southern poverty law center (mildly famous lefty oppression tools from the 60s) lists "kek" as a dangerous nazy paraphenalia.
☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: dudes are so out of their league it's been past funny and back to funny again too many times to count.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-24 18:40 ben_vulpes:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-21#1616287 << subj. of autocad, i finally stood a cadcam workstation up in support of project carport and shit damn inventor is a well-designed piece of software.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-25 01:32 mircea_popescu: in other lulz, the southern poverty law center (mildly famous lefty oppression tools from the 60s) lists "kek" as a dangerous nazy paraphenalia.
scriba: ssh banner of 183.246.69.24 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-1.99-Comware-5.20
scriba: ssh banner of 112.16.4.21 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-1.99-Comware-5.20
scriba: ssh banner of 183.246.73.7 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-1.99-Comware-5.20
scriba: ssh banner of 183.246.73.7 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-1.99-Comware-5.20
a111: Logged on 2017-02-25 01:32 mircea_popescu: in other lulz, the southern poverty law center (mildly famous lefty oppression tools from the 60s) lists "kek" as a dangerous nazy paraphenalia.
ben_vulpes: also it is useful to shiv the things in public
ben_vulpes: well but then what i am i to complain about
ben_vulpes: i have an uncovered driveway alongside my house, could make it covered
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i know where the heated car storage in town is
ben_vulpes: but i would like to for example work on the thing at night, with lights, while dry
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: suburbia is a plague born of the curse of oil
ben_vulpes: maybe a minute to get on and off once practiced
ben_vulpes: i locked mine to the car for a year or so, then stopped
ben_vulpes: now i need to replace it, but from dust accumulation from shithead pressed shitboard 'house' fabricator who infested the lot next door lo this past year
ben_vulpes: the depths of your suburban hell never cease to amaze, asciilifeform
ben_vulpes: fenced yard, short walk to island beach, the works!
veen: ben_vulpes: not a fan of the car covers myself, accumulates grit, works finish during application and removal, and in any amount of wind
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: the feeling's mutual for ~the same reasons
ben_vulpes: veen: i share these reservations; d'ya think the t-top'd have been better off without a shroud?
veen: who's to say? is it a different material?
BingoBoingo: cloudflare lulz stem from US 'hockeystick' metaphor
trinque: kik is lol transposed left one key
trinque: I'd wager the e was random drift
trinque: of course these things needn't have one particular origin
trinque: oh, I guess asians do say kek, too.
trinque: that was important internet research.
mod6: asciilifeform: cool work on adding the timings for blocks (timer & revealer)
shinohai: Not bad here, you? Hopefully I can get time this afternoon to add asciilifeform 's newest goodies and test
mod6: yeah, good call. should be easy enough to drop em in and test 'em.
mod6: lol, so get this. i was thinking, "man i really should have gotten a Ada ref book..."
mod6: I already bought that Ada 95 lecture notes book and had it on my shelf. found it there lastnight. heh.
mod6: ah yah, that's a good list of things. i've got it bookmarked. good to have it in the l0gz again tho.
mod6: what i want to do is write a program that does somethings to not only get a feel for the lang, but also how to use packages.
mod6: nice, thanks for the links. i'll keep readin'
a111: Logged on 2017-02-23 19:12 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform o hey, consider this situation : 1. i know your fp, so i make fake key for that fp. 2. i know trinque 's fp, so i make fake key for that fp too. 3. i know you keep a signed copy of trinque's key on your keyring ; so : 4. i proceed to sign trinque's fake key with your fake key and 5. pretend to be a noob and give you my gpg pubkey.
mircea_popescu: smart thing would be to replace it with a proper rsatron
shinohai: Interesting trilema article mircea_popescu ... twitter actually locked my account twice this week over the "auto" stuff, which they refer to as suspicious account activity.
mircea_popescu: lots of people, not just you. and they're all suspicious subversives.
mircea_popescu: whatever, they'll be left with boeck and supran tweeting to one another, no great loss
shinohai: Why have an api if you can't actually do useful things with it.
mircea_popescu: don't begrudge an orc his orcish tongue ; "blockchain principles" is how they say "tmsr made"
mircea_popescu: o look, stefan molyneux made the list, that chick angie what'sher name didn't.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-15 05:27 asciilifeform: heimbach was one hell of a d00d, i met him on a street, where he picketed 'occupyists' while waving kaiser banner.
mircea_popescu: quite literally irresponsible : i don't fucking answer TO YOU SAD LOT
mircea_popescu: contrary to what hate haters hate, mysql is perfect for the web
mircea_popescu: 8 years of trilema, never crashed, randomly or otherwise.
mircea_popescu: but you don't ~only. you web. rarely write, often read.
mircea_popescu: it has slave reads, which makes it WAY BETTER than any other, including progresql or whatever
mircea_popescu: not every www load hits the db, but more than none do because page layout complexities
mircea_popescu: (new comment stales out all article pages ; all pages are staled out once a day cause of header image ; etcetera)
mircea_popescu: you understand this, it stays up through all sorts of insanity.
mircea_popescu: no, just, i don't give a shit what happens to any request.
mircea_popescu: you recall the discussion where you couldn'tr get "advanced sqltron" to read stale ?
mircea_popescu: and phf was all like "this isn't in the spec" then read the spec etc
mircea_popescu: no. very much in line with the cowboy design altogether.
mircea_popescu: yes. but at the time satoshi was satoshing under that name, people were still pre-bitcoinafrica
mircea_popescu: it's hard, dude. washing out the socialism from the crevices of the boy who lived in socialism is fucking hard.
mircea_popescu: what people think the whole point is scarcely has any bearing.
mircea_popescu: similarily, young bride isn't AIMING to become a bitch. she's just getting married.
mircea_popescu: only in the making of hard vacuum was the making of hard vacuum learned ; and it fundamentally changed fluid physics (which is more than one immediately realises)
mircea_popescu: it's very similar to the marine chronometer problem, in its disproportionate impact
mircea_popescu: "who the fuck cares about navy timekeeping" "hurry up and have children before you're too old to attract a sucker"
danielpbarron: not impossible; would just need to pre-sign hundreds of thousands of tx, each "wanting to live" in a different block but all using the same inputs. even gives you the control over how long the "canned tx" is good for
trinque: beat me to "then people will broadcast 10x the txns each time"
trinque: on the same page; please continue
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform judging by the thing you linked btw, the "harmless radiator" function of urbit is out in full effect.
trinque: under current circumstances there are also cases where you will have to regrind and rebroadcast your transaction
trinque: same deal, better watch the chain to know your txn actually happened
mircea_popescu: canned txn wouldn't be impossible, just less maneuvrable.
trinque: looser variant only buys you "might get into alternate next-block, otherwise regrind"
mircea_popescu: anyway. the main problem, barely conveyed by the "canned tx" thing, is that if you require the user to know more than his privkey to make a txn, you make usage a higher bar than it is now.
mircea_popescu: whether this is desirable or not is very much an open question, but it is too early yet to weigh on the matter.
trinque: imagining one under attack, it could certainly prevent him from blasting coin to another castle before defeat
trinque: net blockade == no transactions smuggled out
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-25#1618154 << it's so funny, at least to me, the sheer wastage of resources usg oligarchs engage in. they keep buying things, which they don't understand, on the expectation that "we;ll find a use for them". they do. it's ALWAYS the same one. somehow the fact that i know in advance what it'll be doesn't inform them as to their horrible strategic position.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2017-02-25 19:27 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: andresen h. paid for it for a reason!11
trinque: or, messenger has to have privkey
trinque: in which case messenger is fucking rich
mircea_popescu: somewhat in the same way a retarded child who buys things but always ends up using them as if they were icecream doesn't thereby realise he's retarded.
mircea_popescu: it suspiciously reinstills socialism in that it creates a very strong incentive for... all castles to... work together. because "first they came for the germans" usual bugaboo of socialist propaganda to try and dissolve the outer membranes of the individual organism's cells.
mircea_popescu: see, the fact that you don't have txn as you describe is what allowed me the "you will die if you fork" threat last year : i don't have to know jack about their chain to murder their chain.
mircea_popescu: under a bitcoin as you describe, 2015 gavincoin'd have had better chances.
mircea_popescu: because the same txn was acceptable to both fork and real network.
mircea_popescu: let's see. i have a bitcoin. the network forks. i spend the bitcoin. the spend is valid on both networks and thus included by both networks. in different blocks.
mircea_popescu: if the network worked as you describe, i'd have had to choose on which network i wish to spend.
mircea_popescu: which'd have required me to ~know something~ about the fake network.
mircea_popescu: trinque my concern was more in the vein of, i don't want deedbot to answer with an item crafted as described to a !!key command
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this existed historically, on say call bills etc.
trinque: mircea_popescu: right, register in this case would write a pubkey somewhere once, and always use that as the nick:key association
trinque: whereas now I'm asking the keyring
mircea_popescu: trinque it's more than that. must make sure the pubkey you wrote includes nothing but itself. one modulus.
trinque: mircea_popescu: ah yes I do. I'll need that pgpdump guy, store what's extracted from the key
mircea_popescu: incredibly prescient choice on mod6 's part with the .seals design
mircea_popescu: yeah. it was you know, so clunky and unhip, at the time.
trinque: I have a gpg wrapper CL item I wrote
trinque: would release but the thing doesn't need more legs
mircea_popescu: for one thing, very poor impedance match with human thought processes.
mircea_popescu: it inadvertently forces a node-miner tandem ("you don't like the mempopol, fucking mine it already")
mircea_popescu: wasn't so obvious back when ppl cpumined on the single windows binary
mircea_popescu: anyway, no need for "desried block" and "max block" both. just the latter suffices.
mircea_popescu: it can be priced see. if i wish to pay a ten bitcoin fee, i thereby have the right to make my tx last into the eons
mircea_popescu: the pill to socialism is market. make things marketable, no further problems.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: that's why i aim to buy the arab girls rather than convert to islam. they can keep their fucking ethnosocialism.
mircea_popescu: and that's also why the hope of the beta bois whining around "nrx" because "girlz be mean yo" is so well set to be disabused. more market, not less, is the future.
mircea_popescu: what we don't really have is the stuff that we really need, such as debottlers.
mircea_popescu: the g has a decent debottler built in ; the trb-i does not, and needs a few.
mircea_popescu: "how do i know i talk to nodes that are representative ? cheaply and easily ?" for instance.
mircea_popescu: for all you know there's 45 different bitcoins going on right now, separated by a so-far universally permeable membrane.
mircea_popescu: consider the case of the web, also a major application in need of a debottler. how do you know whether you connect ot the internet or to the tomcooknet ?
mircea_popescu: again, at the time ppl cpumined on their node-miner-wallet nobody noticed the difference.
mircea_popescu: it's also possible to go "oh, go ahead and spend your bitcoinz lel"
a111: Logged on 2017-02-23 18:58 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the important point there is : the whole fake bitcoin address (3something) is supposed to be "useful" in practice. this utility is supposed to be proven by idiotic "challenges" like this one put up by peter todd. EXCEPT the output does not actually SIGN the transaction claiming the bounty.
mircea_popescu: if your idea of "i want to spend my dime" reduces to "well, have a mining farm" suddenly the whole thing's ~useless.
mircea_popescu: it was an instance of "here's something i made that doesn't work, mommy loves me" complex.
mircea_popescu: yes, but the idea is to not expand the hipster doofus design principles to trb-i
mircea_popescu: never mind that. the problem is that if your tx being included depends on you having a miner, you don't actually have a system. just like the 3bullshit isn't a system.
mircea_popescu: you keep fixating on a completely nonsensical interpretation of the comparison.
mircea_popescu: idiot example #1 : peter todd & prb idiots came up with "a way to do things", which does not in fact work.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: idiot example #2 : a trb which allows txn to be blocked by others than their issuers is ALSO a "way to do things" which doesn't in fact work, and therefore, exactly equivalent to the peter todd & prb idiots item
mircea_popescu: miners may not be able to choose txn on any other criteria than the fee ; nodes idem.
mircea_popescu: all txn are encrypted to destination. nobody knows what was mined until it is spent.
mircea_popescu: (practically - you can only know txn y spent from address z only once the chain ends up with an address you own so you can decrypt it)
mircea_popescu: the problem with this is that it makes balance checks impossible.
mircea_popescu: this is what i'm saying, anyway. " what we don't really have is the stuff that we really need, such as debottlers."
mircea_popescu: absent a good or at least workable breakthrough in this vein, there's no strong technological incentive to move to trb-i
mircea_popescu: well, sha-1 went, any one of the two mechanisms involved in pubkey protection weakinging any would make for an emergency incentive.
mircea_popescu: (in case it wasn't obvious, diff between political and technological is based on whether people have an incentive to emulate the fix anyway)
mircea_popescu: take the issue of "must have all blocks". there's a strong political incentive to supplant the technological failure.
mircea_popescu: ie, the interests of the participants are alligned in the way of the fix not in the way of the failure.
mircea_popescu: also happens to be what's of interest, what with all "color of bits" eternal imperial quest.
mircea_popescu: anyway, there might be others, i make no pretense to exhaustivity, hence why this is a very early phase of the design. we don't well know the space yet.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'm always open to technological solutions to replace political solutions.
mircea_popescu: much like i much prefer the "i took my pills" to the "i'll be careful" female declaration.
mircea_popescu: and note that we';re not the onyl ones aware. enemy has placed a strategic urbit right on this space.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-16 16:16 asciilifeform: 'Security expert and doomsayer Bruce Schneier – speaking by video owing to RSA Conference commitments in San Francisco and perhaps prescience with regard to seasonal travel challenges – predicted that the government is coming to handcuff coders. "We all had this special right to code the world as we saw fit," said Schneier. "My guess is we're going to lose that right, because it's too dangerous
mircea_popescu: somehow the fundamental problem of making one's citizens weaker is never evident to these schmucks.
mircea_popescu: "oh but if they're strong they might not like us". ~dumbass women always and everywhere.
mircea_popescu: in other lulkz : cnn, nytimes and the rest of the libertard fake news sites denied white house access.
mircea_popescu: now people will have to click on breitbart to see what trump said at news conference.
mircea_popescu: anyway. nytimes/cnn are getting shut down, this year. there's no two ways about it at this point.
mircea_popescu: game suddenly becomes "can you volunteer necks to squeeze" ; empire already reduced the thriving system of euro trade to the sad nonsense of us banking.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-25 20:03 mircea_popescu: the pill to socialism is market. make things marketable, no further problems.
mircea_popescu: yes but now you depend on a type of tx - the moving fallbacks.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-25 18:33 mircea_popescu: no because government does thart for them hurr.
mircea_popescu: whenever your design calls for "and then they will go in front of the cannons, break the enemy's arms and beat them into a pulp with the broken arms" you're not asking for a merchant, but for a soldier.
mircea_popescu: your design requires "always", not "when it's worth the money".
mircea_popescu: this was the pretense of shared hosting. it didn't work irl.
mircea_popescu: turns out usg is more than happy to bomb a whole dc, or for that matter wedding party.
mircea_popescu: (i dunno if you recall the net history, was at a point swedish torrent published openly mockful "takedowns" on its website)
mircea_popescu: myeah. that, also, gores on list : cipher of known hardness.
mircea_popescu: in any case i'm not a huge fan of the current address derivation scheme
mircea_popescu: ripemd160(sha256()) + sha256(sha256) checksum ? wtf is this bullshit.
mircea_popescu: yeah. actually, im going to write up an alternative addressing shceme.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-17 00:21 asciilifeform: to possibly squeeze something useful from thread: as i understand, a lamport-based 'trb-i' ~could~ run on z80.
danielpbarron: or leaked to a future block to be claimed along with tx fees
mircea_popescu: if you mean something like "block subsidy = 100 btc forever ; and each block must contain 1k txn ; and each txn must waste 0.1 btc" then you've done jack shit.
mircea_popescu: libertards call it that ; but then again they call all sorts of things.
mircea_popescu: no coin is infinitely divisible for reasons we already discussed.
mircea_popescu: even the theory that 1 satoshi is actually the denomination of btc is iffy
danielpbarron: could make it so a tx spending the smallest unspent output without a sig is considered valid
trinque: "segwit if whatever amount is tiny" ????
trinque: I'm more interested in the claim that null tx == junk tx
trinque: I can see it. he does however lose any fees he might've had.
danielpbarron: not a cost to anyone who already had a tx confirmed 1 to 5 blocks ago
trinque: the perverse incentive to do this ought to diminish over time as things are
trinque: danielpbarron: what's meant is cost to process the block he shat
danielpbarron: you have to process something. a confirmation is a confirmation
trinque: asciilifeform: sounds like fee ttl is contemplated
trinque: i.e. every relayer gets nibble of fee
trinque: that would balloon txn size though
mircea_popescu: rent has been, historically, a poor dike against socialist tide.
mircea_popescu: looky, a common strategy of students that are not in possession of the material is to resolve those problems they think they know how.
mircea_popescu: there isn't an administrative solution to the problem you perceive. if the "godfee" is low, it won't matter, and if it;s high it won't work.
mircea_popescu: apparently you can't make the flock be good christians through tithe control.
mircea_popescu: this is not a factual descreiption. the transition from opportunity cost + 0 to opportunity cost + epsilon may matter, but so far neither record nor theory offer any convincing reason it would.
mircea_popescu: at the cost of the expensive space in mined blocks. yes.
danielpbarron: isn't the vacant block easier for you to validate? shouldn't you prefer most blocks to be vacant except when you have a transaction to send?
mircea_popescu: block averages say 5 btc in fees, for about 1mb of space. average tx costs about 2 bux currently.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron if we use a fixed block width it will waste disk space.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. to get the system off the ground. i explained this before, im pretty sure.
danielpbarron: how is that wasted space any more than other people's transactions are wasted space?
mircea_popescu: if it were the case you had to pay 2 bux to transact in 2011, bitcoin'd have never exiosted
☟︎ mircea_popescu: danielpbarron that part wasn't much explained. all mining is technically wasted space for the node, not like they get money for it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because the bitcoin network bandwith far exceeds the ACTUAL transaction needs of the civilised world.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: anyway, to get back to the wallet : i would fucking love to see a mpfhf collision on 513 byte input.
danielpbarron: but to have the ability to send/recieve transactions there is the assumption that the space will be wasted -- user takes on the cost of buying a tool in order to use the skill
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron the analogy doesn't hold. currently the tool gives miners cake while nodes pay for the electricity. there's some people cheering on the sides, which i suppose makes the nodes all warm inside ?
mircea_popescu: basically nodes are the digital equivalent of women : men fuck them so the state can have babies. hurr durr, pill plox.
☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎ danielpbarron: a re-occurring cost? like having to replace tools as they wear?
danielpbarron: without any consensus changes, you could put up a node that will only relay transactions which send a fee to itself. user A wants to send transaction X so makes a few versions of it (doublespends) each sending to same place but giving relay fee to whichever node takes it. whoever gets it to a miner first gets the fee
danielpbarron: those nodes could even give part of the fee to another node for further paid relaying, by giving with the original transaction along with another one that spends the not-yet confirmed fee (not allowed! i know, but in this case maybe it helps more than it hurts)