indiancandy: need a teacher
jurov: maybe someone will teach you to use therealbitcoin in exchange for cam sessions or such
danielpbarron: you should get into Eulora. that's a great easy way to hold btc
jurov: i would if you were a boy model :)
jurov: haha eulora, too
mircea_popescu: i suppose eulora can be used that way huh.
indiancandy: jurov
indiancandy: u likeguys
indiancandy: i can hook u up
jurov: yep
indiancandy: u a guy
jurov: yep
indiancandy: i kno a blonde
indiancandy: youn cam guy
mircea_popescu: every girl expands until she can pimp guys to guys and read mail.
jurov: lel
mircea_popescu: indiancandy do you eat steak ?
indiancandy: nobeef
indiancandy: sorry
jurov: indiancandy: but really, if you want buy bitcoins for UK pounds, we can do it. and holding some bitcoin equivalent on eulora account is easy
indiancandy: i ont even kno what eulora is
indiancandy: mp y ask about steak
indiancandy: wanna take me 4 steak
jurov: eulora is online game with real currency
danielpbarron: indiancandy, http://minigame.bz/
mircea_popescu: sure, if you eat steak I CAN HOOK YOU UP!
mircea_popescu: there's this place i go for 1kg primo beef.
indiancandy: where in argentina
mircea_popescu: lavalle 980 or some shit.
mircea_popescu: davout knows, he poured a wine bottle on my head there for some reason.
indiancandy: on ur head
indiancandy: what did u do
mircea_popescu: i was just sitting there!
indiancandy: i mean when he did that
danielpbarron: indiancandy, eulora is a program you can run on windows and effectively use as a bitcoin wallet, without having to mess around with the block chain directly
mircea_popescu: i dunno, coupla years ago, i've not mentioned it since so he prolly imagined it's all forgotten!!1
ben_vulpes: waiwut i don't remember this wine event
ben_vulpes: i remember all wine events
indiancandy: shit
mircea_popescu: you were there, mthreat was too
indiancandy: was u drunk
mircea_popescu: nah.
asciilifeform: this must've happened at a parallel-c3
mircea_popescu: dude...
indiancandy: well
indiancandy: iguess u gotta forgiv him
indiancandy: maybe he was drunk
jurov: !!up indiancandy
deedbot: indiancandy voiced for 30 minutes.
indiancandy: how do i join web of trust
indiancandy: againil finally do it
jurov: !!manual
jurov: where the manuls are
jurov: first install GPGprogram, then http://deedbot.org/help.html
indiancandy: !!gettrust
deedbot hands you a broomstick.
indiancandy: broomstick?
indiancandy: hahaha#
asciilifeform: in other lulz, asciilifeform searched for nitrogen cryoseparator ~once~ , ~year ago, and now sees google ads for it every single fucking day
indiancandy: there watching u
asciilifeform: it is a lol, picture if you searched 'boeing 737' one time, and then every ad you see after that is for buying one
mircea_popescu: hey, it supports 5% of gpd growth from imaginary 7bn to imaginary 7.35bn
mircea_popescu: or w/e the random numbers are these days
asciilifeform: hey if boeing can count an instance of asciilifeform-shown-737-ad as $737price*$p-of-him-buying, and they also get to imagine that the latter is a positive number, >0, then gdp can be trillion!!!1
asciilifeform: zillion.
mircea_popescu: coming soon to a govt accounting office near you.
asciilifeform: hey, riaa pioneered, and probably patented this marvelous Business Method!!
indiancandy: mp u stil in arg
mircea_popescu: yea.
asciilifeform: in quite unrelated lulz, http://www.sunrise-ev.com/z80.htm
asciilifeform: in even deeper lulz, http://retropcdesign.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=6
asciilifeform: ^ punch-tape reader, made of modern components!
mircea_popescu: until a few years ago i still had stacks of those
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> waiwut i don't remember this wine event << great steaks at this place. Mr. P. had to leave and change his suit.
mod6: Got to talk with chetty a good long while this evening too.
asciilifeform: ooooooh -- that!
mod6: aha
mod6: This was also the first time we discussed your ideas around mem fragmentation.
mod6: Or at least, iirc we talked about it for a bit.
BingoBoingo: From other Petrus reports http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3528236/Male-Norwegian-politician-raped-asylum-seeker-says-feels-GUILTY-attacker-deported-man-suffer-Somalia.html
asciilifeform: aha!
asciilifeform: and mike_c was skeptical, had other hypothesis, i wish i could recall ~what~
mod6: Ah, right. Yeah, I forget what his thought was there.
asciilifeform: iirc it was not fully formed. but he didn't like mine, because it was 'gut hunch', which was quite fair
asciilifeform: i miss mike_c , he was a solid d00d.
mod6: yeah, same. maybe he'll be back when he has a bit more time.
asciilifeform: iirc he barfed during the schism? so who knows.
mod6: ah. maybe so.
BingoBoingo hopes we never lose asciilifeform to child rearing
asciilifeform: if i vanish it is safe to suppose that i was killed.
davout: mircea_popescu: i didn't "pour a bottle on your head", i accidentally'd a wine ~glass~, at least that's what i remember!
mod6: yeah, your hand got away from you and knocked over a glass, which promptly went into Mr. P.'s lap.
mod6: shit happens.
davout: not like i got on my chair, and slowly poured the whole contents of the wine bottle on mircea_popescu's head while everyone was watching in horror :D
BingoBoingo: That you remember...
mircea_popescu: lol ok ok
davout: https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-core-dev/2017-01-12/?msg=79232562&page=1 <<< lulz
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/01/trump-to-cnn-spammer-you-are-fake-news/ << Qntra - Trump To CNN Spammer: "You Are Fake News"
ben_vulpes: per asciilifeform's request, mimisbrunnr now reports time between blocks: http://logs.bvulpes.com/chainstate?d=2017-1-12#355
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4CA047A1DC3B4DD0A2254C9274AB5B4A4B5AECD404AE95EEEE0DE227113F35E1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2974...8743 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (840.rt-barnaul-02.dianet.ru. RU)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4CA047A1DC3B4DD0A2254C9274AB5B4A4B5AECD404AE95EEEE0DE227113F35E1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 3870...6143 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (840.rt-barnaul-02.dianet.ru. RU)
davout: asciilifeform: does the CLHS exist as a single-page HTML doc ?
davout: it's annoying to have to click back and forth, i'd like to be able to simply scroll through it, like a normal person
davout: also phf ^
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A60D82C28B7736C6632209997E898A87E90F7170CB30C011040797B6CD54528C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1521...7407 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' ()
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A60D82C28B7736C6632209997E898A87E90F7170CB30C011040797B6CD54528C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1395...7777 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' ()
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/8F70AEA883A2E9061549FCFD51F3C94CDBB73816DBB1AB8CB985E1F8FC9476B8 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1395...7777 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' ()
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/8F70AEA883A2E9061549FCFD51F3C94CDBB73816DBB1AB8CB985E1F8FC9476B8 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1747...6033 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' ()
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E17BC3E38DABD1C91A27D226FC57B2ACFEB88E913F4D218985717FDD514FB934 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2974...8743 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (static.vnpt.vn. VN 64)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4CA047A1DC3B4DD0A2254C9274AB5B4A4B5AECD404AE95EEEE0DE227113F35E1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2974...8743 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (840.rt-barnaul-02.dianet.ru. RU)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E17BC3E38DABD1C91A27D226FC57B2ACFEB88E913F4D218985717FDD514FB934 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 3075...7897 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (static.vnpt.vn. VN 64)
Framedragger: lulzy: https://sergiobossi.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/bitcoin-most-serene-republic.html
davout: Framedragger: nice find
mircea_popescu: in other evil rabbit front news, https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CB4NQwGW0AAlEsw.jpg
Framedragger: hahaha little albert experiment meets david lynch
mircea_popescu: >D
mircea_popescu: Framedragger lol there you do deanonimizing trilema readership :D
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-12#1601798 << the usual thing is to create an editor keybinding that launches the hyperspec page at cursor, something like hyperspec.el or helm-dash☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-12 10:08 davout: it's annoying to have to click back and forth, i'd like to be able to simply scroll through it, like a normal person
trinque has a left-alt (which is rebound to hyper) + d binding that pops up docs for w/e language
davout: trinque: no, i just want to read the thing, not necessarily in the context of needing info about some particular bit
trinque: ah k
davout: after reading #chainstate my conclusion is that mircea_popescu would enjoy ruby very much!
trinque: o lawd
mircea_popescu: lol and whyssat davout ?
davout: string manipulation just seemed very painful
mircea_popescu: well, a large part of the problem is that strings aren't something.
mircea_popescu: ie, the veterans' objections couldn't be dismissed.
davout: yeah, of course
mircea_popescu: on which basis i enjoy ruby a lot less.
davout: the point is simply that it bundles a good bit of convenience
davout: which may or may not be a good thing depending on the particular point of view
davout: either way, the repl looks pretty nifty
mircea_popescu: the objection is that it bundles incorrect convenience, which is NEVER a good thing. link here to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-09#1599790☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-09 15:10 mircea_popescu: this is how a mother acts, and why kids have not much business with her past the age of about 10 or so, depending how retarded they are.
davout: what distinguishes correct from incorrect convenience ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, i quite enjoyed flailing for definitions once i realised what the problem was (you can tell i move to arrays at some point in a desperate bid etc)
mircea_popescu: davout something (convenience, anything else) is correct if it scales, which is to say is derived from the prime mover. anything else - incorrect.
mircea_popescu: sinful is also a proper attribute of incorrectness, because it is literally a headless spawn of the very devil.
davout: not sure i really get what you mean by "it scales"
davout: if you bundle lots of shit, it quickly becomes unmanageable
davout: because all abstractions and conveniences have a cost
mircea_popescu: not so. i can go from everything i do in an infinite string of correct whys to prime logic. broken shit can't do that.
davout: what's "prime mover" in this context?
mircea_popescu: possibly your idea of "scales" is tainted by the idiots, "to scale means to be used by a larger cattle headcount". that has nothing to do. to scale means to go up the abstraction tree. an apple is a correct apple if it scales, ie, if the concept of apple follows from it.
mircea_popescu: literally the aristotelian imperative. the first thing to have moved.
davout: it's still not very clear to me how the ability to manipulate string a bit more easily is equivalent to heresy
davout: would the same functionality, included in cl's standard be deemed heretic?
mircea_popescu: "it's not clear to me how the ability to manipulate something you can'd define is equivalent to http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583902 "☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 06:24 trinque: in other python 2 was already shit... all([]) -> True yet any([]) -> False
mircea_popescu: all you need is a false implication somewhere, davout ; ANYWHERE. once you have it then everything becomes provable.
asciilifeform: davout: notice that it ~wasn't~ included!
asciilifeform: 'if your grandmother had balls...'
davout: asciilifeform: i do
davout: strings defined as byte vectors is pretty unambiguous
mircea_popescu: yes but now define ruby's notion of substr
asciilifeform: davout: cl chars ain't bytes
mircea_popescu: see the whole point of "string" as a concept (and from it, as a type) is based on a fundamental ambiguity. now it's this, now it's that.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's an anti-helpful objection.
asciilifeform: davout: nor null-termed, nor contiguous in memory
davout: mircea_popescu: i'm afraid i don't see that particular ambiguity
mircea_popescu: i know. i hadn't seen it until yesterday either.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is in fact useful to remember that the 'convenience' of cstring is == to the 'convenience' of shitting on the floor where you stand
mircea_popescu: this is something you can remember only if you already groked it.
asciilifeform: tru
davout: mircea_popescu: #chainstate ref plox?
Framedragger: inb4 cross-channel reference and search system!!
mircea_popescu: there's two points. one, where i saw it at the periphery and feared it may be a thing, which made me pretty pissy : http://logs.bvulpes.com/chainstate?d=2017-1-11#1340 and then http://logs.bvulpes.com/chainstate?d=2017-1-11#1374 as the issue was structuring in my head. then of course the closing comments early today morning, http://logs.bvulpes.com/chainstate?d=2017-1-12#323 as the thing couldn't actually be dismissed.
mircea_popescu: if you look through the log it's pretty evident alf understands exactly what the problem is, in spite of his deeply boneheaded, inept self-expression. which sadly makes it evident only retrospectively.
mircea_popescu: then again how to speak truth to clueless is a quite open problem in the first place.
mircea_popescu: but that's why he speaks of socialism and getting for free and etc.
davout: asciilifeform: the reason some of the string primitives aren't included, e.g. "substring" is that they're O(n)? In other words, that the convenience comes at the cost of incentivizing operator idiocy?
mircea_popescu: vice-versa : they have to cost that, because they're stuck papering over the fact that the operator has no idea what he wants.
asciilifeform: well, for starters, much worse than O(n)
asciilifeform: but mircea_popescu nails it.
mircea_popescu: the computer doesn't in the slightest mind running in a for loop from now until the heat-end of history. however, it would humbly request you actually write its death sentence deliberately rather than by uncomprehended accidenty.
mircea_popescu: which is altogether not an unreasonable bar for all slavery.
asciilifeform: this is main reason why haskell and other 'lazy eval' systems are malignant
asciilifeform: they create 'secret talmud' of workable ops, that are not visually distinct from intractable ones
mircea_popescu: mistreating the slaves is the ruin of the house.
davout: right.
mircea_popescu: don't tell me all this nonsense now makes sense to you ?
davout: i see your point mucho better
mircea_popescu: well then.
davout: not sure what asciilifeform means in his last comment
asciilifeform: which, davout ?
davout: mircea_popescu: i see the point in general, but i'm not sure i'd take it as far as considering some additional string primitives as being evil
davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-12#1601874☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-12 14:09 asciilifeform: they create 'secret talmud' of workable ops, that are not visually distinct from intractable ones
mircea_popescu: well, entirely depends on your definition of evil, but the point remains they're not helping you, they're just smothering you.
mircea_popescu: aka "you can get some version of what you possibly wanted done very easy at the cost of understanding what you actually wanted or what the hell's the differece."
asciilifeform: davout: in some programming systems, it is very easy to inadvertently ask the machine to solve an np-hard problem. and for 0 good reason, other than that making such a language stroked academitard cocks
mircea_popescu: cue ballas with his "there's a difference between what you need and what you want, and the media will relentlessly give you strings"
davout: asciilifeform: ic
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's very symbolically imperial, also. the language of "rights" and "rule of law" makes it trival to start a "war on drugs" or "women against rape". then the state ends and everyone is at a loss why the fuck it did.
asciilifeform: in other languages, e.g., python, ruby, there is a lesser sin, you end up stuffing multitude of O(n) ops in places where you oughta have O(1), O(n^2) ops where with some thought you could've had O(n), etc. and the braindamage adds up
davout: mircea_popescu: yea, i guess the question is where you stop. at which point do you decide that you're going to buy these apples instead of growing them, because ultimately you want an apple pie
davout: asciilifeform: yes
mircea_popescu: davout no, not really, because i buy ~apples~. your question would be "at which point you stop buying canned frozen fruit tm for your apple pie". anyone may give his own answer, but in my case it's long, long ago.
mircea_popescu: and yes i plant my own lovage, in buenos aires, because the plant doesn't exist and "soup condiment mix" doesn't satisfy.
asciilifeform: davout: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3144404199547949@naggum.no.html << from 6th paragraph, with the 'swamp water'
davout shall read
asciilifeform: '...suppose you drive down the highway and you suddenly want to go some nice place you saw just before you pass a forest. you veer off the road, plunge into the wilderness and promptly decide that you need four-wheel drive, a huge cutting device in front of your car, much better shock absorbers, a bigger engine that could actually run on swamp water instead of getting all drowned, and then need an amphibious vehicle to get across the
asciilifeform: ll that right away after you made up your mind to veer off the road, and This Is Surely Somebody's Fault...'
mircea_popescu: fwiw i wasn't terribly impressed with that particular statement.
asciilifeform: (piece was not about strings, but another 'need' vs 'want', but otherwise very similar idea)
mircea_popescu: actually, let me restate it in a form i better like!
mircea_popescu: i now have to start writing an article IN THE MIDDLE OF WRITING AN ARTICLE. damn you all!
asciilifeform: lel
Framedragger: "so you have two tits right"
mod6: mornin'
Framedragger: o/
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2017/the-general-brendan-eich-jwz/ <
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/the-general-brendan-eich-jwz/ << Trilema - The General Brendan Eich, JWZ
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/why-politicians-dont-ever-do-anything-for-the-people-a-model/ << Trilema - Why politicians don't ever do anything for the people, a model
asciilifeform: in other lulz, disinfo farms working overtime, https://cryptome.org/2017/01/Steele-Trump.pdf ( no, does not exist as human text, full of scan-of-scan nonsense, but quite hilarious )
pete_dushenski: in fiat-btc news, http://beijing.pbc.gov.cn/beijing/132005/3230072/index.html http://shanghai.pbc.gov.cn/fzhshanghai/113571/3230012/index.html
pete_dushenski: "For the recent abnormal operation of Bitcoin trading platform, on January 6 the People's Bank of China Business Management Department, the Beijing Municipal Bureau of Financial Affairs jointly met with the relevant regulatory authorities of the "currency network", "currency" and other major currency trading platform responsible person, Understand the operation of the platform, suggesting that the possible
pete_dushenski: legal risks, policy risks and technical risks, requiring their business conduct must be in compliance with relevant laws and regulations and strictly carry out self-examination and related rectification.
pete_dushenski: "
pete_dushenski: from related msm piece, “We’ve been meeting with them regularly over the last two to three years. The only difference is that they talked about it this time,” Bobby Lee, chief executive of BTC China, the world’s largest exchange by trading volume over the past month, told the Financial Times. “I think their intent is to remind the world, ‘The PBoC is on top of this. Don’t let the price go
pete_dushenski: crazy’. That’s their prerogative.” "
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-12#1601807 << i looked at his recent pieces, what a massive load of americanized 'misesian', 'randroid' claptrap. mega-snoar.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-12 11:48 Framedragger: lulzy: https://sergiobossi.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/bitcoin-most-serene-republic.html
asciilifeform: complete with taleb's cockstroking.
asciilifeform: in late 19th c. usa, the land of p.t. barnum & co, there was a (one of many) mass-hysteria crackpotteries, an obsession with 'properly chewing your food before you swallow it.' complete with maxims such as the unforgettable 'nature shall castigate those who don't masticate!' the hayek, rand, etc. folx reminds me of nothing more than of this.
asciilifeform: !~later tell ben_vulpes how does mimisbrunnr compute the tslb ? (is it the time block was received on your box ? or some other..?)
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: blockchain dot com, ofc
ben_vulpes: no i kid, it's the time at which the node shits ProcessBlock: ACCEPTED
ben_vulpes: into its logs.
ben_vulpes: there is some lag between when it learns about a block and when it reports it to irc, as it dumps and parses blocks, but it reports the logged timestamp accurately to the best of my knowledge.
jurov: http://www.livescience.com/57461-army-wants-biodegradable-bullets.html << reality can outdo both onion and qntra
trinque: holy shit, I just considered making a joke that they should have seeds in them.
trinque: incidentally mats, catch any of the mattis confirmation hearing? sounded to be about 50% "but what about the womens and gays?!" before I turned it off.
trinque welcomes the lulz of the transgendered, seed shooting us.mil of the 21st century
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: aaaah, so there were not necessarily any blox mined in 3sec.
asciilifeform: but only the familiar blackhole-catchup-blackhole-catchup cycle.
trinque: https://www.rt.com/viral/373450-robot-kill-switches-status/ << in other delusional jackoffs
Framedragger: /msg scriba archivestats
Framedragger: blergh. sorry.
asciilifeform: !~later tell mircea_popescu while sleeping i had a thought re http://trilema.com/2017/towards-a-better-hash-function and my earlier attempt thereof likewise : that the thing may not in fact be ~collision-resistant~ (it may not be so difficult to take an arbitrary desired output and find a tape that hashes to it.)
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: then again, traditional hash algos 'solve' (i.e. pretend to solve) this by 'every sub-op of hashing affects all output bits' which is largely promisetronic.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: ah, yeah. less than useful i suppose then if it's mostly an indicator of node state.
ben_vulpes: for what it's worth, when i spot check it against other "block explorers" it's seen blocks before them.
asciilifeform: in other lulz, https://threatpost.com/shadowbrokers-bid-farewell-close-doors/123047/
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in völkischer beobachter , https://archive.is/Xztp7 >> 'In its final days, the Obama administration has expanded the power of the National Security Agency to share globally intercepted personal communications with the government’s 16 other intelligence agencies before applying privacy protections. ... Attorney General Loretta E. Lynch signed the new rules, permitting the N.S.A. to disseminate “raw signals intelligence
asciilifeform: information,” on Jan. 3, after the director of national intelligence, James R. Clapper Jr., signed them on Dec. 15 ...'
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: 'figthing machines'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform maybe. show me ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i don't have a proggy written, but the general idea is not monumentally arcane -- you simply work backwards
mircea_popescu: from what ?
asciilifeform: from the output with which you want a collision.
asciilifeform: elementarily.
mircea_popescu: but you have neither S nor M.
mircea_popescu: you try all possible combos ?
asciilifeform: nope
asciilifeform: when you look for a hash collision, your goal is to find ~some~ M that produces the particular desired R.
asciilifeform: (to use the nomenclature in mircea_popescu's piece strictly)
mircea_popescu: in my own mind it's about as strong re this as otp, "you can get any message you want back out", but admittedly that's mostly self infatuation
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes.
asciilifeform: if you can find ~any~ collision, the hash is broken.
mircea_popescu: well, it's not collision resistant, yes.
asciilifeform: so quite useless.
asciilifeform: you gotta have collision resistance, for almost any practical application.
asciilifeform: otherwise it reduces to a fancy crc32.
asciilifeform: (consider one especially disastrous meltdown: in the merkle tree variant of lamport's signature scheme, you are hashing over RNG output. so if ANY collision whatsoever can be found, the enemy can forge signatures at will.)
asciilifeform: in other cases collisions need some form of structure to be useful, but this is only mild consolation.
asciilifeform brb, food
ben_vulpes: in other usg scientism: https://www.elgaronline.com/view/journals/roke/5-1/roke.2017.01.08.xml
mircea_popescu: well no food for you yet, you just drew some generalities.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-12#1601928 << when copper's too good, and plastic just good enough!☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-12 18:23 jurov: http://www.livescience.com/57461-army-wants-biodegradable-bullets.html << reality can outdo both onion and qntra
mircea_popescu: maybe they should shoot some flaming ice for a change.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-12#1601941 << this is a useful record in that one can take the list of mimisbrunnr , which exists timestampted in chan, and compare to list of blockchain.info for instance, see what dt is involved. sum it up over 10k blocks or whatever☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-12 19:32 ben_vulpes: for what it's worth, when i spot check it against other "block explorers" it's seen blocks before them.
ben_vulpes: more of an open ended research project than "production blockchain api replacement"
mircea_popescu: ty ben_vulpes
ben_vulpes: aha
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-09#1599758 << i have trouble reconciling the obvious correctness of this statement with the ballooning of complexity in eg webtech☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-09 14:41 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-09#1599676 << for the record, there isn't a case in history YET where schelling point was anything than against complexity.
mircea_popescu: re the "research project" : the data's there. if anyone cares, can go use it ; if not cares, not cares. either way problem solved.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes webtech is not a system with multiple agents.
mircea_popescu: monoagent systems can and usually do explode in complexity. it's called solipsist mania / psychosis.
mircea_popescu: kinda why solitary confinement is thought to cause insanity.
ben_vulpes: yeah or why every day i come home there's some gorgeous new socialist propaganda to scour off the walls
mircea_popescu: right, the soviets had the same issue, their ideology became ever more windingly complex.
ben_vulpes: who is the monoagent in webtech? i see a zillion "dev", "companies" etc
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes "the community"
ben_vulpes: (well i meant woman unattended with child for hours on end)
mircea_popescu: lol ok
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2012/gtrl-or-gtfo/ << in other great agains from before the great great again.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: that usg scientism article is a hoot
ben_vulpes: solid chuckles
pete_dushenski: !~ticker
jhvh1: pete_dushenski: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 826.21, Best ask: 826.47, Bid-ask spread: 0.26000, Last trade: 826.47, 24 hour volume: 32698.58156695, 24 hour low: 735.0, 24 hour high: 829.8, 24 hour vwap: None
Framedragger: http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/the-strangest-people
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2017/towards-a-better-hash-function/#comment-121046
trinque: !!up whaack
deedbot: whaack voiced for 30 minutes.
trinque: wb
whaack: ty! I just finished setting up a bouncer. Re the last time I was here http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-29#1550381 my ultimate solution was just clearing my .bitcoin I believe and running it again and it did not get stuck. I never figured out why i was stuck☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-09-29 18:50 mircea_popescu: whaack it is entirely possible that your node is stuck on validating that block because of lack of ram, yes.
mircea_popescu: aite.
ben_vulpes: whaack: is this a trb node?
whaack: yes
mircea_popescu: btw ben_vulpes : you might consider making yourself a process to stand up vps instances of listener nodes to spray out at you new blocks as they hear them.
mircea_popescu: gets around the whole "enemy knows who it's talking to" thing.
ben_vulpes: whaack: TIGHT
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: neat idea
mircea_popescu: they're not terribly expensive, if you have an automated process can get 10-20 up at all times with a lifetime no longer than 2-4 weeks for less than 1btc/year. experimentally that's the lower margin of enough.
mircea_popescu: from ancient tomes : "organizarea actuala a Serviciului Statisticei Demografice, destinata a fi una din realizarile cele mai perfectionate existente in prezent, s'a putu face in primul rind datorita concursului acordat de catre Fundatiunea Americana Rockefeller, care, prin conventiunea incheiata cu Ministerul Sanatatii, asigura timp the patru ani insemnate fonduri banesti, pina la un procent de 44.39% din totalul fondului de
mircea_popescu: cheltuieli, precum si un ajutor tehnic nepretuit."
mircea_popescu: tl;dr : romanian census 1930 was mostly paid for by the soros foundation of 1930.
mircea_popescu: this included 7 automated punchcard machines, 11 calculators etc.
pete_dushenski: speaking of romanian bits, thanks to the latest trilema, http://trilema.com/2010/doua-fete-argumentul-economic/ and http://trilema.com/2011/jaful-si-economia/ could use translating imo
Framedragger: !$ ssh
Framedragger: (scheisse)
mircea_popescu: i cant believe i've not translated the two girls one ?!
pete_dushenski: ikr
pete_dushenski: if you have, it doesn't have a trackback at least
mircea_popescu: the 2nd one has a proper source, maybe just read the original ? it's a for-romanian-tards discussion of an english piece
Framedragger: !$ ssh
scriba: ssh banner of as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_6.6.1p1 Ubuntu-2ubuntu2.7
ben_vulpes: !#s testing production
a111: 22 results for "testing production", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=testing%20production
scriba: ssh banner of as seen on 2016-07-12: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_5.3
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes he's not a lord yet, dun have a castle, what can he do
ben_vulpes: i regard this vast wasteland of unclaimed irc channels
ben_vulpes: and can only ask myself
ben_vulpes: why
ben_vulpes: here
mircea_popescu: should be a comicv
Framedragger: ^ alright, worx. may not be too terribly useful, but it uses a new l33t backend provided by siphnos.mkj.lt, to be documented later
ben_vulpes: Framedragger: does it run on oleg?
phf: lords of tmsr should have proper attire. something by moebius http://68.media.tumblr.com/2a9f398560cec9d0ddf753a440fafe4f/tumblr_ojakw6ghIS1sndzdgo1_500.jpg
Framedragger: any particular oleg in mind?
ben_vulpes: olegdb!
Framedragger: oleg of novgorod?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: one more for your list :) http://trilema.com/2012/succesiunea-civilizatiilor-in-concretetea-lor-materiala/
Framedragger: http://olegdb.org/ << ahahaha :D
pete_dushenski: oleganza!
mircea_popescu: phf to quote from a film i don't recall, "niente coveri, solo corpi di tinere donne"
Framedragger: amazing. (nah uses proper postgres!!11)
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: fuck that guy, he left the only usable visual git client for os x to rot without releasing the source.
Framedragger: select count(1) from siphnos_scan1 ;
Framedragger: count
Framedragger: ----------
Framedragger: 15399387
ben_vulpes: Framedragger: are you sure you shouldn't be using olegdb?
Framedragger: pete_dushenski: could you update bots page? `/msg scriba help` is up to date nao
Framedragger: ben_vulpes: i'll transition when i am ready for web scale!!
phf: mircea_popescu: that'll require translation
mircea_popescu: i dunno, some bit about how the chinese emperors din't have covers on their beds, slept covered in women
phf: ha
mircea_popescu: (anyone who tried this knows it's entirely impractical)
pete_dushenski: "Trilema hurt my head on-and-off for Nearly a year.Then it hit me like a ton of bricks-shit." << what chrome thinks my en quote would sound like if it were ro then converted back to en.
Framedragger: > Are you guys CS 100 students?
Framedragger: > We were. Never really made it past that.
mircea_popescu: lol wut ?
Framedragger: ^ http://olegdb.org/faq.html
mircea_popescu: ehehe
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: ya no love lost for oleganza anymore. had some fun chatting and dining with him a few years back but he's still not here so not much hope for him really.
ben_vulpes: "a database for when persistence means turning fsync on"
pete_dushenski: Framedragger: on it :)
Framedragger: many thanks :)
ben_vulpes: i am going to raise my hand and ask a stupid question
ben_vulpes: Framedragger: why did count(1) not return 1?
Framedragger: count() takes "what to return for *every* matching row", basically. "1" is also a thing to return, so it returns >15m of "1"s
ben_vulpes: ah
ben_vulpes: the really funny thing is that i ran a similar query against a table with one row
Framedragger: ahh..yeah it's super unintuitive, i think
ben_vulpes: eh, if i'd done it against a table with two rows it'd have made sense immediately.