mircea_popescu: so anyway, if you find a z80 with that beta on it, you got a genuine ro made item.
mircea_popescu: i always suspected su never got enough foreign made to end up with the conventions.
Mocky: revisiting emacs: the problem for me, and the reason i quit it after ~1 year is that the cut between editor / os / keyboard was so obviously wrong. once you get comfortable with the useful stuff in there it sucks that you then can *only* use it in emacs. what, i can't have a decent editor for anything outside of emacs? most of the answers to that question are either a) fuck emacs or b) fuck everything outside of
Mocky: emacs. which to me explains org mode and emails and browser in emacs, and i suppose the emacs+ratpoison. but in any case a lot of that useful shit dun belong stuck inside an editor
a111: Logged on 2018-06-19 17:21 asciilifeform: in heathendom it is always either 'eh gnarly pos who needed it ever' or 'hands off my sacred animal, i'll shoot'
Mocky: like running any named command with M-x, why can't i do that in my browser, or cad program or whaterver
Mocky: dun belong strictly in text editor only
Mocky: but as you say asciilifeform, problem is deeper than that
phf: Mocky: fwiw everything inside emacs is a side effect of essentially confining the lisp machine vm to the emacs process. on lisp machines proper the process was inside out: stick emacs everywhere you needed a text editor, but otherwise have separate programs.
esthlos: somewhat on topic, as someone still reading logz: is eventual plan tmsr dataflow lispm revival? heathen iron has to be abandoned, no?
phf: from that perspective climacs is a better approach: common lisp as a vm, mcclim as an application authoring framework, climacs as an editor widget
esthlos: asciilifeform: I've heard stories from someone who works the floor of an Intel plant in Oregon. seems like a very costly operation for those low-nm processors
esthlos: oh yes. they just got the freedom (!!!) to pump their own gas
esthlos had the displeasure to go to school in portland
esthlos: asciilifeform: that's what I suspected. most of those transistors wasted by modern kernel anyway
a111: Logged on 2016-04-22 02:06 asciilifeform: costs of chip fab as we know it, and of orbital launch, are even comparable.
esthlos: reed. still have some friends out there
ben_vulpes: esthlos: ah, once a classy joint i hear. since then, well, epicenter of "i don't date nazis" nonsense
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: it's all the poor dears know
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i dunno about that, man. from the slut's angle, there's a lot of plain fucking going about.
mircea_popescu 's only eyes on us campuses are female, may impose rosy glow.
esthlos: tho they do have some stuff going for them. nuclear reactor, excellent math and sciences. but yes, intolerable student body
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i doubt there's what knows how to use a slut on that campus
mircea_popescu: come to think about it... i don't know of a single case of girl laying a... student.
ben_vulpes: well hey i biked through from time to time
mircea_popescu: jesus christ, imagine this wonder, two decades of "political corecntess" and "stop rape" and "yes means notanal" and whatever the fuck "empathy" and "really really understanding girls" and whatnot has reduced success rate to 0%
mircea_popescu: and in the spirit of their imbecility, they think this failure justifies... MORE OF THE CAUSE OF IT
ben_vulpes: well yeah doods don't even say hello, much less issue compliments anymore.
esthlos: asciilifeform: my understanding is that most unis used to have chip fab facilities much like machining facilities, and profs would regularly build iron. did something make the cost skyrocket? (maybe in logz: I will read)
ben_vulpes: and so the girlies shack up with other girlies, the boys retire to secular onasteries, and they all think it precisely tits.
☟︎ phf: esthlos: that was never the case (though it certainly looked that way didn't it), the golden age of vlsi happened because of a darpa grant, essentially "give us your designs, we'll fab it for you free of charge"
esthlos: phf: you know, about a year ago I wrote Alan Kay asking wtf happened to computing since the days of darpa and xerox parc. his response was "funding now sux"
esthlos: o course, don't think he's done anything of merit since those days.
mircea_popescu: because they permitted all sorts of patibulaires take over the show. with retards like marc shitdressen and paul graham handling the funding, usg tech went to shit.
Mocky: even alan kay is liek, this aint what object orient programming was meant to be
mircea_popescu: i can;t fucking believe english doesn't have an equivalent for "hangman's face"
phf: alan kay's fixation on children though always confused me, and i think was the undoing of most of his children. like his definition of what children want or like is that of a person profoundly out of touch.
phf: *most of his project
Mocky: like most academics really
esthlos: his model is mostly based on papert, piaget, and montessori. "The Children's Machine" etc
phf: mircea_popescu: i don't know if there's a definition, "idea" would've been a better term. in any case i've never heard anything concrete, except for the papert/piaget/montessori like esthlos said statements.
phf: but his goal with smalltalk etc. wasn't to build a machine for grownups, it was supposed to be a montessori creative exploration device
mircea_popescu: phf amusingly, this is a ~type~, like the 90s academic in the pepit jacket with the square bag slung over shoulder.
mircea_popescu: "oh, the children" hurr durr, always boils down to a sort of listless, old pedophile's excitement.
mircea_popescu: "if only children floated in a soup of abstraction there'd be no world hunger" sorta wikiwank.
esthlos: phf: I think he wanted to build something for adults, but his work at apple disillusioned him, american adults too retarded for multiple desktops etc. so then yeah, pedo phase
phf: they are all inspired by dead poets society, "oh captain my captain" and all that stuff
Mocky: oh man dr dobbs, haven't seen that in ages. I used to get the dead tree version
mircea_popescu: but the shocking part is, they have no formal diffusion, they're all individual/solitary and yet very uniformly minded.
mircea_popescu: often they band together and try to opress young republicans with "programs for exclelence" batshit insane nonsense along the veins of "this kid learned to read at 3 months old!"
mircea_popescu: they're usually very excited about "brain percentages" and usually mozart figures in the verbiage.
phf: esthlos: i don't think that's the case, squeak was his main apple project, but even going before than dynabook was already in the works at parc
esthlos: phf: oh yes, the dynabook, you're right
esthlos: neal stephenson gave a pretty lulzy rendition of the dynabook in the diamond age. poor kid gets ahold of the republican technology, goes on to rule the world
esthlos doesn't know the first thing about ruling
Mocky: the view that ambient human brain damage level is strictly curable by 'education'
esthlos: btw asciilifeform: saw you're a fan of greg egan. ever read permutation city?
Mocky: kind of a weird book imo, permutation city
mircea_popescu: esthlos Mocky either of you ever read the luminous rewrite ?
Mocky: the rewrite but not the original!
phf: i've accidentally read greg egan's quarantine, followed by schild's ladder, i take it once you read one of his novels you've read all of them, unless i choose a particularly similar narratives
esthlos: any thoughts on the "consciousness jumping noncontinuously from electron to electron" speil? in the sense that, it seems dumb, but kinda sexy too
esthlos: mircea_popescu: I have not. gotta add it to the list
mircea_popescu: esthlos i dunno what it means tho. how do you mean, consciousness jumping ?
phf: i think it's like transhumanist porn, the idea that consciousness will preserve its form on whatever substrate, so with some Quantum Physics we can have "humans" operating at subatomic levels by being there.
Mocky: if you could upload your consiousness to a pc, would you notice when when your process got swapped out. and if no, how long a pause could you tolerate
esthlos: my vague understanding is: if consciousness can exist "in" a computer, then what happens when the cpu states are reorganized arbitrarily, or distributed spatially? egan supposes that conscious entity can't detect the effect.
esthlos: but then what _is_ the cpu state but an arrangement of electrons? and why can't I say "these electrons on my butt are cpu state 53, those on alpha centauri are cpu state 54..."
mircea_popescu: not anymore than remanence of vision can exist "in" a camera.
mircea_popescu: subjective psychological phenomena are just that -- subjective.
phf: i think the causation is backwards, egan chooses substrate, assumes consciousness can exist on that substrate, then explores properties of substrate. doesn't say anything interesting about consciousness, but exploration of substrate. since naive mechanistic cellular machine interpretations are in vogue, that's the substrate that egan works with.
esthlos: so THAT's what those less wrong folks are jerking off to
phf: yeah, a computer program will produce the same result whether it runs on slow cpu or fast cpu. fascinating read.
esthlos: to be fair to egan, the actual supposition is not that consciousness exists "in" computer, but that it has a mathematical representation. not that it affects mircea_popescu 's point
mircea_popescu: wank is wank is wank. what do you mean "mathematical representation" ? ie, "depersonalization" ? how exactly is the number 3 going to be "personal"
mircea_popescu: but yes, the universal, uniyelding, perpetual and ubiquitous problem of "people" who were born even though god didn't have souls to supply the meat with is this : life's too heavy a burden.
ben_vulpes: the montesorri stuff makes me laugh. oh, you mean the little learning machine thrives on new and varied challenges? you don't fucking say
phf: montresori education, do you fucking homework, or we bury you fucking alive
ben_vulpes: i have a stack of blank index cards upon which i write or draw whatever thing i feel like training the kid on at any given moment. "memory" games with shapes and letters and numbers, the alphabet and numbers, just starting in on word shapes. beyond that, no blinkenlichten, no plastics, a commitment to correcting diction and grammar all day and i'm pretty sure one's into diminishing returns after that
ben_vulpes: "brio" actually ships battery-powered "engines", these days, with wheels that resist turning except when driven by batteries, if you can imagine.
ben_vulpes: the fuck kind of kid wants to watch a train roll about at 1 cm/min
ben_vulpes: ("the fuck kind of child abuser makes these toys, you mean")
ben_vulpes: historically wood and steel train toys
phf: i guess this was also popular in u.s., because i'd see it in movies and such, and presumably original mit hackers were model train fans, but i take it it's not really a 80s-90s kids thing..
trinque had a proper brio set as a kid
ben_vulpes: phf: i had a set quite like that as well, but never got into it. "so, it goes around? and if you go too fast, it pops off the track?" brio also more for the 2-5 set
phf: ben_vulpes: well, you need a nice length of tracks, nor do you need to make it a circle (just close the circuit by other means). it can figure nicely in any kind of gameplay, but honestly it gave me my first experiential understanding of electricity
phf: but yeah, there was a shortage of age appropriate games in russia. parents would keep you from breaking something by basically going "if you break it, i'll give you away to mr. policeman" and such.
ben_vulpes: i eventually learned that unless i can feel the gs in the seat of my pants i have trouble giving much of a fuck
phf: well shit buy him a squirrel suit then i dunno
phf takes his model trains and walks away to play by himself
ben_vulpes: and this is why i still don't have many male friends "we're going to go fly quadcopters!" "...why don't we drive out to the hangar and take the plane out instead?"
ben_vulpes: any goon can get a powered bird to do simple things
ben_vulpes: it is the gliders that are actually hard.
ben_vulpes: "flies" is a bit strong; i like big kinetic-energy toys and have friends with them.
ben_vulpes: fun inversely proportional to lethality and all that
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: don't tell the inca but i fly
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes generally around the age of 10-12 or so discover it can be applied to soft parts also.
mircea_popescu: but it came with model houses, trees, bridges, multiple switches etc.
mircea_popescu: even something as simple as a figure 8 with 2 engines of diff powers was fun to watch
mircea_popescu: i didn't have incline ramps in mine. but yes, these existed
mircea_popescu: anyway, beautiful handpainted railcars, too, had a double beer barrel thingee, all sorts.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the plastic pine trees, round things go on a stick ?
mircea_popescu: yeah sounds like same. though i thought mine was from teh ddr.
mircea_popescu: let's see how far this goes. square, olive green converter box, with a white selector, sorta angular shape ?
mircea_popescu: selector sat on an inclined cutout in the box, and the voltage was represented by squarish indentations on either side, increasing in size ?
phf: i think maybe even same GDR brand "liliput"
mircea_popescu: phf this is confusing, because the engines look right but the cars do not.
phf: i found märklin first when searching, but it's not gdr
mircea_popescu: mine were definitely rigid. pre-curved elements. had to mix and match, i had a ballot of them
phf: yeah, i'm pretty sure they've not even made flexible ones until quite recently
phf: but if i had to guess from picture there's two straights at the end and three curves in the middle
mircea_popescu: i recall TT branding, but that's just generic size indication
mircea_popescu: it's the details though, like say the conical buffer plate supports, or the electrified wheel and so on
mircea_popescu: phf funny, rails linked from there look 100% like "patriotic knockoff rails"
phf: hmm true, also the soviets probably wouldn't make those german style train stations
phf: you don't like rail? rail take you place no problem
mircea_popescu: honestly i like rail just fine, but we were for some reason discussing provenance.
mod6: im not done catching up on this solid log yet; but if someone wants to make some money, can always start sellin for pizarro!
mircea_popescu: you only saw plain matter solid log ; as self-collapse accelerates it becomes neutrino degenerate matter solid log.
mod6: i like the emacs/x11 thread
mod6: srsly, folks: SPECIAL PRICES!
mircea_popescu: "YOU ARE READING Deep Web (The HIDDEN PART OF INTERNET)"
hanbot: ahahaha, it had me at nabokob
a111: Logged on 2018-06-19 17:13 mircea_popescu: what's actually the usercount ? spyked ? esthlos ? ave1 ? jurov ?
ave1: I'm currently on vim again with a lot of work done on in bash.
ave1: I used to program in Smalltalk for work, was a lot of fun.
a111: Logged on 2016-04-22 00:36 asciilifeform: phf: the emacs tumour (see logz, the 'flycheck' thread) is what really blew my mind
deedbot: FundsAreSafuh voiced for 30 minutes.
FundsAreSafuh: the pursuit of knowledge, and an adoration for the great Mircea Popescu
☟︎ FundsAreSafuh: I used to lurk here quite often back in the 2014-2015 days, back then I used to be mentioned on the channel for some of my BitcoinTalk antics
FundsAreSafuh: I made a small fortune trading Friedcat's ASICMINER shares on GLBSE, before Nefario disappeared. Now I'm a crypto nomad spending time between NYC and the Republic of Panama
FundsAreSafuh: I guess nostalgia brought me back, and the realization that things are never going to be the same. I'm just a former MPOE holder come back to join the ol' gang
FundsAreSafuh: The thrill of buying 60 BTC, and spending it all on cannabis. The exhilaration of learning PGP for the first time. The realization that FeedZeBirds was a scam.
☟︎ diana_coman: FundsAreSafuh, how do you plan to "join" exactly?
diana_coman: FundsAreSafuh, what do you spend your time on?
deedbot: FundsAreSafuh voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: in other-same lulz, usg amping up the "upgrading" of "secure"
http sites off the interwebs.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: you know, "upgrade tls". various "cloud providers" "rolling out" "support"
mircea_popescu: in other news, diana_coman reports that we've actually managed moving the actual server on a .gpr process ; there's some remaining problems with linking bits, but seem perhaps resolvable.
mircea_popescu: which brings us to : ben_vulpes would pizarro be amenable to bring up the spare sometime so she makes it a full gnat musl thing, test whether we can move everything there, and either move it (so basically, moving servers) or else backing down (so basically i guess either renting both for a while or powerting back down the spare) ?
☟︎ ben_vulpes: sounds reasonable, let me check notes and see if there's any reason not to
diana_coman: asciilifeform, no, not on rockchip, on s.mg server but basically just setting for the session the $PATH to point to musl gnat
diana_coman: and I'm not that keen on testing on yet another arch basically
mircea_popescu: you know, engineering, that thing where you try to change the smallest count of things per step
mircea_popescu: the above + "keep clear and reproducible notes of all steps" is pretty much 100% the profession.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, same as s.mg server really if possible
diana_coman: asciilifeform, uhm, not at this stage; can haz precisely dulap-whatevers setup s.mg came with?
mircea_popescu: none of this is an emergency, still some issues to fix as i said.
☟︎ diana_coman: the server is a ball of fuck that was trimmed from earth-size to country-size, but still
diana_coman: asciilifeform, "musl libs" meaning libs built with musl, right? that's my current understanding
diana_coman: i.e. on a musl system I can rebuild everything or not?
diana_coman: or do you mean I have to have cuntoo to be able to try this?
a111: Logged on 2018-06-19 18:08 phf: asciilifeform: well, it's been ported, but i've no idea how, last time i looked at it was pre-rework and i couldn't figure it out. trinque just said that the musl version of emacs he has is 24.5, so presumably that works
diana_coman: I guess I'll find out by trying it at any rate
diana_coman: so there is a chance it'll work; if not, at least I'll know what part is even more idiotic than the rest
diana_coman: aha, that was my understanding so that's good then
a111: Logged on 2018-06-03 18:36 asciilifeform: ch10 ffa builds a (stripped) 320kB elf
diana_coman: asciilifeform, aha, that's pretty much the recipe I'll try to follow
diana_coman: right; I can confirm I tried that on my rockchip too with same results as you had already reported
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> diana_coman: plox to gpggram BingoBoingo re necessary qty of FGs, the raid geometry to use ( 5? 10? ) , necessary # of nic connections, he will bring up the box. << The server needs drives to set up a raid
ave1: asciilifeform, I did get it to cross compile on aarch64 too, it was a question of more memory. Do you still have an error log? Also the order has to be correct in the build-ada.sh. Like so:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-04#1820499 ☝︎ a111: Logged on 2018-06-04 04:26 ave1: asciilifeform, also what is in the build-ada.sh? the last line on aarch64 should read: ../extra/build-tarballs.sh $PREFIX musl ada aarch64 x86_64
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I looked at the iron on my way back to the terminal after Uruguay's disappointing 1-0 victory
ave1: Yes, that one looked like a build / host / target def problem. Which usually goes back to the build-tarballs line.
BingoBoingo: I can pull the chassis out of the cabinet and see if they drives are hiding in there somewhere other than the drive bays.
ave1: I.E. I could reprocude this error by first compiling aarch64 with ../extra/build-tarballs.sh $PREFIX musl ada aarch64 and then running the script with making that line: ../extra/build-tarballs.sh $PREFIX musl ada x86_64
ben_vulpes: ah; that's right. box bought from s.nsa was chassis-only
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: sent out an inventory recently, let me hand that over to ya
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I sent a signed and encrypted cabinet inventory report, can repaste
trinque: and never touched my hands, so no label
BingoBoingo: <trinque> the 6tb WD is also mine << That was marked
diana_coman: asciilifeform, BingoBoingo it is NOT asap, no; take your time, no hurry
a111: Logged on 2018-06-20 17:04 mircea_popescu: none of this is an emergency, still some issues to fix as i said.
ben_vulpes: !!v 679E24D9E94B4273ABD3A76D7E9D4CE3099B442C14D4A41635AABFA733F662C0
deedbot: ben_vulpes paid jurov invoice 1
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-06-20 17:59 asciilifeform: breaking noose : shitazon gives quote of 314.21 ( 237.99 disk ; 14.51 postage; 61.71 orc bakshish )
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: What about those retarded "max X per customer" Amazon limits?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Yeah, that's in the notes for the next signed inventory report
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: plox to gpggram to BingoBoingo , tracking # etc, when it has sailed << Between these and the disks... mod6 interested in a trip?
a111: Logged on 2018-06-20 17:59 asciilifeform: i'ma ask that anyffing sent to asciilifeform for transport, be either marked (if sent from human hands) or serial # gpggrammed to asciilifeform , so he can mark it.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: ^ plox to confirm << >> <+asciilifeform> there is a 860 in bilge, marked 'tbf' << sounds like TBF has a spare 860 then. makes sense.
mod6: <+diana_coman> asciilifeform, BingoBoingo it is NOT asap, no; take your time, no hurry << barring a straight out emergency, I can't get away at the moment. About a month ago, I was trying to plan a trip around end of July; but now, that's locked out.
mod6: Again, less complete emergency. Let's see if we can source whatever parts are needed at 'ye ole iron shop', or other method, before I think about dropping everything.
mod6: diana_coman: If not ASAP, that helps, any available guidence on your time horizon for this to be racked & working is helpful.
mod6: So, we need something stood up by July 1st-ish.
mod6: Ok thanks for the time-frame there.
ben_vulpes: diana_coman: why does it need to be wholly separate machine? i think something might have flown over my head
☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: wasn't the idea that we build it with itself and so on ?
mircea_popescu: and so it is here : if gets away without cuntoo, will try, if not, with.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: aaand in other lulz, it was my very good pleasure to see that shithead morgan freeman besieged by the idiocy come to roost that he dedicated so much of his life to helping spawn.
mircea_popescu: if he gets thrown in jail by the exact fucktards he lied and stole for, i might even go visit, to point and laugh.
a111: Logged on 2015-10-03 19:56 mircea_popescu: ascii_field as the verse goes, "comunismu-ntii te-ajuta, tac tac tac, si apoi te executa, pac pac pac."
mircea_popescu: and in other "ddr trainset" memorabilia, went by wurstspezialitäten tienda, got gal a packet of maoam
trinque: !!v 2E51F89A85C4095CB095FE2E801A02832370E0D2E40725790A4FF184307BA36F
deedbot: Invoiced ben_vulpes 0.26994957 <<
ben_vulpes: !!v 47890E77153D97A14E0A3602032F495C70D0A52EA256BC86EA35DD4DF7DF0807
deedbot: ben_vulpes paid trinque invoice 9
a111: Logged on 2018-06-20 16:46 mircea_popescu: which brings us to : ben_vulpes would pizarro be amenable to bring up the spare sometime so she makes it a full gnat musl thing, test whether we can move everything there, and either move it (so basically, moving servers) or else backing down (so basically i guess either renting both for a while or powerting back down the spare) ?
ben_vulpes: i'll need until late-july to kit out the bays