jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 492882 | Current Difficulty: 1.452839779145E12 | Next Difficulty At Block: 493919 | Next Difficulty In: 1037 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 6 hours, 56 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
mircea_popescu: aw damn i thought logotron gets the utf points whatever
a111: Logged on 2017-11-01 19:11 asciilifeform: davout: no problem with selling items that may or may not exist or have any connection whatsoever to reality ?!
davout: aka promises aren't in themselves fraudulent because they are promises, failure to deliver on the promise is fraudulent
davout: bottom line being, i do think buttfinex is fraudlent, but for different reasons than this particular one
mircea_popescu: "stuff that doesn't exist yet" in the sense of the milking of tomorrow when you own a cow is not "stuff that doesn't exist yet" in the sense of davout's isp that davout neither owns nor will but for 0 reasons feels within himself a swelling indicating that he's just as good as one who does, and therefore in a small manner, as if by contagion, he also will. because he "could".
☟︎ mircea_popescu: yes futures exist, as a financial derivative. no the millenials' meat isn't worth money "because human rights and democrcy" ; nor has argentina's masfuturo a financiable value.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: the specific item here discussed is an EXACT rehash of say ttp://trilema.com/2012/and-another-one-bites-the-dust-bitmarketeu/#selection-55.0-57.87 ; which while 5 years old is nevertheless entirely identical ; which is the problem here -- that a specific sort of "mind" keeps making a specific sort of mistake. which is why all the discussions about
http://trilema.com/2013/the-story-of-pointless-and-witless/ and so on and so fo
☟︎ mircea_popescu: now -- it's fine for you to sorta-kinda keep up with the logs, now and again, and trade off the credit you built historically. nobody gives a shit, per se, people have been failing to keep up and getting shedded off like so much dead skin ever since day 1.
mircea_popescu: the problem, however, seems to be that your mind is actually regressing to the mean, and you find yourself in 2017 making the type of arguments you'd have readily recognized as an idiot's (not even a scammer's ; some people are too dumb to actually scam in that they have not the intelligence required to create a space between themselves and their victims, so they're just fucking everyone over without mens rea for lack of a m
mircea_popescu: this can only come to grief ; and the name of the griefbox is "why is mp so arrogant ; we don't yet know whether it was a scam ; this looks like a serious business because aeron chairs" and other such nonsense amply and insistently documented years ago back when i still vaguely gave a shit about what idiots say and how the idiot brainbox works.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-03 12:08 mircea_popescu: yes futures exist, as a financial derivative. no the millenials' meat isn't worth money "because human rights and democrcy" ; nor has argentina's masfuturo a financiable value.
shinohai: Buttfunex not a corral full of thieves ? Am I in the wrong place?
a111: Logged on 2017-11-03 12:14 mircea_popescu: the specific item here discussed is an EXACT rehash of say ttp://trilema.com/2012/and-another-one-bites-the-dust-bitmarketeu/#selection-55.0-57.87 ; which while 5 years old is nevertheless entirely identical ; which is the problem here -- that a specific sort of "mind" keeps making a specific sort of mistake. which is why all the discussions about
http://trilema.com/2013/the-story-of-pointless-and-witless/ and so on and so fo
a111: Logged on 2013-12-25 21:01 asciilifeform: borrowed -> has to be repaid. in cash, or фуфло.
mircea_popescu: yes but the pantsuitistan theory is that poverty is an absolute bar to cash repayment and "human rights" are an absolute bar to фуфло repayment and consequently repayment obligation discharged, problem ?!
mircea_popescu: because if problem they'll change "discharged" with "deferred" and nyah nyah.
mircea_popescu: the whole "western world" is built on the hope that nope.
mircea_popescu: actually, that only works because the chinese are playing the role of romanian student's mother, sending over lunchboxes fulla pork and beans without economic counterprestation, accepting self-issued "certificates" in lieu of payment.
mircea_popescu: the rest of the "balance sheet", two bit gainarii / trading of stolen phones and classmates' inept sexwork is entirely spurious nonsense bolted on
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it works fucking admirably though, compared to the soviet approach...
deedbot: manamex voiced for 30 minutes.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-12 03:27 mircea_popescu: amusingly -- the chicken stealer (ro gainar, each language that saw them has its own word) is the lowest level of gypsy male qualification. a sort of transient baccalaureat if you will.
mircea_popescu: it did. including for the feminist (ugly tomboyis streetwalker that hates men) and for the woman in tech (pickpocket distracting the mark by playing the whore) and so on.
mircea_popescu: but... meanwhile "they sanitized the slums", resulting in social sterility.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-07 15:31 asciilifeform: 'well ~i~! know now that i'm not an acorn. but do THE SQUIRRELS know??????'
mircea_popescu: ok, well, there was once a place in new york worth going to. meanwhile...
mircea_popescu: "clean the slums" very specifically means -- an effort by the early pantsuit to remove local autonomy from the poor. yes they'll be just as poor -- the important point is to make sure the landlord is one of us not one of them.
mircea_popescu: the situation where manhattan may well be run by goldman sach's own boss tweed but five points is run by will poole and dontcha forget it is well anathema to the democrat corruption machine.
mircea_popescu: turns out there's a lot of interesting us history "nobody ever knew".
mircea_popescu: the reason it is vehehehery important for the kids to keep being distracted by "technology" aka bimbophones is that ... well... if they ever were to look up from zee angry birds...
mircea_popescu: you never know what the kids will do. this is the definition.
mircea_popescu: for centuries large open air garbage dumps, yet the call of the blood calls on.
mircea_popescu: o yeah ? you should see when asciilifeform is not asciilifeform but female 20 years his junior. WITH TITS!
diana_coman: mircea_popescu> orcs are slow. <- from my personal experience this is actually a rather reliable empirical measure of how much someone groks reality as is; the analogy would be as to how far away they are from it, hence how much it takes for the "light" to travel aka them to see it; for some the splendours of Rome are visible only now so they still hold today's Rome to be the greatest thing; others are still seeing the Habsburg
diana_coman: might; or the EU ...mhm, dunno, peace; or whatever in between; at the other end one... is ahead of it so can see already where the future is
mircea_popescu: fellow identieis me as you know, "scenariul pesedisto-antenist". right ? on the basis of something he's read, or w/e, encountered in his daily lyf.
mircea_popescu: in nucet, the argument is that the empirical measure described is reliable until relied upon, at which point it is unreliable immediately and without remainder.
diana_coman has trouble getting herself to read past the title even, given the...vibes of the whole thing
mircea_popescu: but why ? he, alex softcheese, a rotten reed just like milord bacon, has thought just like anyone ever thinks.
diana_coman: what grace? what think? what...I??? where?!! lol
diana_coman: "M-am considerat nicusorist o buna bucata de vreme, pana in clipa in care mi-am dat seama de ridicolul situatiei" <- bwahahahaha
diana_coman: well, at least there's so much more ridicule patiently waiting for him to notice it...
mircea_popescu: and in #trilema better homes and gardens, today's breakfast idea : cut open aguacate (green plox, not the black jewishabomination), remove seed, replace with thinly sliced blue cheese (aoc, plox, not argentinisms) and balsamic vinegar in some proportion. yum!
diana_coman: myeah; I meant that I don't quite see the basis on which this guy "sees" the similarity; but I'll admit I was being harsh
mircea_popescu: i'll tell you : he's heard some things, and what i say seems similar. in that sense, guess what ? it is.
mircea_popescu: and besides, he has 0 experience interacting with only-living-romanian-billionaire ; and plenty of experience interacting with... what, irinel columbeanu ? recall the trilema foundational myth ?
mircea_popescu: "everyday substitutes for categories as provided by tv"
diana_coman: ahahah; I'm out of touch with whatever columbeanus are current
diana_coman: (n.r. : Mircea, eu nu vorbesc nici la nervi cu atatea cuvinte NSFW cum ai scris tu, nu le vreau nici pe blog. Le-am sters de mana, dar un pic de atentie pe viitor poate nu strica
mircea_popescu: yes, well... ? who knows, maybe i got paid coupla hundy by orlando nicoara. god knows everyone else did, yes ?
a111: Logged on 2017-09-30 19:33 mircea_popescu: so after reich and slavski, stalin executed slansky, and malenkov beria to no longer bother him with the brush.
mircea_popescu: nobody looks back in 2017 and goes "shit, someone knew how this was gonna end back in 1997"
mircea_popescu: first of all not the "victim" of "his own success" as it's called.
mircea_popescu: in practical terms : the spy is well advised to be polite to the doorman ; because the doorman will still have his job when the spy won't have his anymore.
mircea_popescu: the original discussed whores, but whatever, let's talk about boys for a while.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-03 12:07 mircea_popescu: "stuff that doesn't exist yet" in the sense of the milking of tomorrow when you own a cow is not "stuff that doesn't exist yet" in the sense of davout's isp that davout neither owns nor will but for 0 reasons feels within himself a swelling indicating that he's just as good as one who does, and therefore in a small manner, as if by contagion, he also will. because he "could".
davout: well, my point re buttfinex is that they're simply selling you promises
davout: whether they come from their organic liquidity or from someone else's liquidity
mircea_popescu: the way real estate trading works in uncivilised (ie, non torrens) places is that you gotta examine the ownership chain to establish whethere the owner is selling what he claims (property free and clear) or otherwise "promises".
mircea_popescu: somehow the entire ukistan real estate market has little problem identifying the latter case as a scam.
davout: exchanges only sell you promises, nothing else
davout: buttcoins-on-an-exchange are definitionally not buttcoins-in-your-wallet, they are promises to put buttcoins in your wallet should you ask nicely
davout: or did i miss something?
davout: how are buttcoins-on-an-exchange different from promises from that exchange?
mircea_popescu: when i go and sit down in a restaurant and ask for the menu, a certain kind of promise is made. when the waiter doesn't go to the restaurant's kitchen but across the street, sits down with my order and waits for the waiter to approach him, a different kind of thing was executed than was promised.
mircea_popescu: yes, "going into restaurant means you'll eat food made by someone". but i didn't go into a commissions store ffs.
davout: that's like saying because there's bread on the menu you expect bread be made in house
mircea_popescu: and incidentally the disparagement of sysco-powered pitstops is based on exactly this
davout: so, there's no such "homemade" mention on buttfinex's menu is exactly my point
mircea_popescu: their simple existence (or rather, evidently fraudulent pretense to existing) is the claim whole.
mircea_popescu: there isn't such a mention on, eg, coinmarketcap.com. which is why we aren't having this discussion about that ~useless website ; but about the useless and fraudulent bitfinex.com exact equivalent.
mod6: were you around in '11 or '12?
davout: mircea_popescu: say i start selling buttcoins, is it fraudulent if i source them elsewhere?
davout: if it was the latter, would it be fraudulent just on account of me taking a risk?
mircea_popescu: would you advertise yourself as "bitcoin seller" or as "commission-powered bitcoin hunter of future bitcoins and advisor extraordinaire evanghelizist at large" ?
davout: my point is that taking risks isn't fraudulent if you're able to eat whatever losses you're exposing yourself to
mircea_popescu: whenever something is taken to the marketplace under a label that doesn't match the content, fraud has been committed.
davout: isn't that what the mpoe bot was essentially doing?
mircea_popescu: rape is still a crime, even if you only indulge in it in those juridstictions where paying off the father after the fact is a legal way of extinguishing ~the claim~ against you and you're rich enough to pay more than you can fuck.
mircea_popescu: no, and at every juncture. mpoe bot was specifically financed, by bonds deposited etc.
davout: with a last resort payer
davout: so you did take a risk
mircea_popescu: so : being rich protects one from action on fraud, on the basis of being able to make restitution and only as far as that lasts.
mircea_popescu: which is the problem with this "im trading fraudulently in the hopes i'm rich enough to not suffer the consequences".
davout: their ability to face the consequences of the risks they're undertaking is not something i can meaningfully argue, i have nfi how rich they are
mircea_popescu: and this is exactly the substance of the "will come to grief" comment. the sort of mental situation that creates the approach in the first place is generally guaranteed to eventually sink it past the point of safety.
mircea_popescu: ie, if X thinks P = "hey, ima trade fraudulently because i'm rich enough to afford covering up for it", the probability of X later thinking P' = "undertaking excessive risk on the basis of extant capitalization is viable in spite of its obvious unviability" is high. because while P' is patently insane whereas P is merely occultly insane, nevertheless P' is just a watered down version of P and consequently "of lower psychologi
davout: hard to stop when it seemed so easy in the first place, even though it *was* factually safe in the first plae
mod6: If I place my bid, "100 BTC @ 1.00 USD", and your trade engine tells me that "Trade Executed", I expect immediate settlement/delivery. Anything else is scam.
davout: how would that work if your trades are simple insertions recorded in a DB ?
mod6: (unless it says otherwise, in clear, plain-text right there and I am aware that the coins that are listed on the orderbook are not actually *there*, right *now*)
mircea_popescu: davout "immediate" doesn't mean "in so and so $magic number time interval". immediate means, without intervening steps.
davout: ftr fractional reserve is really not what i was discussing in the first place ...
mircea_popescu: same item would have been "why doesn't s.nsa claim to have an item it doesn't and sell it, like butterfly labs"
mircea_popescu: preorders as such are a few steps closer to sanity than this.
mircea_popescu: a deal can be anything. a stupid deal, or a deal of no economic value or relevancy, such as me offering for sale my palace on the moon, with the footnote that as far as i know there's no palaces on the moon and if there were i don't know of owning any is one thing. fraud begins later on.
mircea_popescu: it's entirely within the realm of the conceivable that on a long enough timeline anyone ends up selling a nonzero quantity of palaces.
mircea_popescu: THAT is what the whole "i'm rich, pay off for it" protection is for.
mircea_popescu: no ; yet you'll be amazed what feats of comprehension can be achieved with a set of 26 predefined symbols.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, if you mean the usb trouble with fuckgoats it was on *centos*
diana_coman: asciilifeform, well, for various definitions of resolve; I'm satisfied that problem was as identified i.e. pl2303x vs pl2303
diana_coman: asciilifeform, one can patch the kernel to work with both pl2303 AND pl2303x; but otherwise yes, obv is obv, either actual serial port or otherwise finding a combo that works
mod6: worth noting, thanks alf.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-26 15:03 mp_en_viaje: basically a novel vector of imperial attack seems to be this "let's take republican items and ~EXPAND~ the downstream so that siberian river attack is then feasible".
diana_coman: asciilifeform, hm, I should get my '80s cobra then? centos 6 is not even recent tbh; but otherwise yes, I believe re no need to patch
diana_coman: asciilifeform, that one, yes! mine was made in-house by my father so I sort of know it more open-box than closed-box in any case
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: znort "finally" ran three times now. if zhe comes back again i won't be overly surprised. like how many other btc corpses, znort surely has nine lives.
pete_dushenski: i'm in ben_vulpes' neck of the woods more or less, sadly with bizniz to tend to and little opportunity to make house calls to trump's side of the border.
ben_vulpes: last time i crossed the border, guard winked us through, saying, "see you in november!"
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: always lusted after those as a youf but never had much chance to fiddle with 'em. unobtanium for young pete's budget but glad to hear they're still running strong
shinohai: oh hai mod6 .... happy Friday! =^.^=
mod6: funny how that works huh
a111: Logged on 2017-11-03 15:32 asciilifeform: btw : truly, genuinely spiffy pc mobos ( e.g. pcengines 'APU' series ) have ~on-board ttl serial port pins~
a111: Logged on 2017-11-03 15:40 asciilifeform: btw if anyone REALLY needs a 9200 baud ( or other ) baud rate, i ( or for that matter anyone ) can build a replacement cpld firmware image that makes this happen
mircea_popescu: i had to have custom fucking made kbd replacement put into teh old style timisoara-made z80 clones
mircea_popescu: basically these thin plastic pill style things lemme see if i can find one
mircea_popescu: eventually they ended up coming that way from the factory. orig kbd was utter shit.
mircea_popescu: and a very short run, iirc documentedly only ~1k produced.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, "iprs" was the comp dealing. mostly german / swiss contacts yeah.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "swiss" in this context means refloated via switzerland
mircea_popescu: i don't even know i ever had one. by the time they were more or less available i got ibm pc
mircea_popescu: (notably, item got broken into while on display in cccp in 88, stolen mobo)
a111: Logged on 2017-11-03 16:19 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i then stand corrected : ran once, and then came back twice to fleece the incorrigible idjits
a111: Logged on 2017-11-03 16:31 asciilifeform: ( spoiler : cans of sprats. but no one confiscated them, or even opened suitcase, but the ritual of putting'em through larger xray magicbox was carried out and the voodoo gods -- satisfied )
a111: Logged on 2017-11-03 16:45 asciilifeform: the dark seekrit is that the old rusty dacia in empty street of timis, goes faster than mazerati on washington 'beltway'.
ben_vulpes: "eyyy, unsuspecting public, i hear ya like holding bags"
☟︎ ben_vulpes: which is all regulation buys one: houses built to the minimum standard, and retirees so accustomed to government insulation from possible bad decisions that the entire stockholding class has nfi that paper could be worthless
ben_vulpes: well there's a whitepaper, that makes it just as good as bitcoin.
ben_vulpes: the corn syrup says maple syrup, that means it's just as good and certainly cheaper at any rate
deedbot: vlad56324 voiced for 30 minutes.
vlad56324: newbie, learning a lot from btcbase logs
vlad56324: i knew bitcoin on 2015, trilema blog in the past week, aside from that i'm just an average joe
vlad56324: what i would like to ask after reading the logs: what is a safe linux distro to use for day to day computing?
vlad56324: basically i'm on ubuntu since a lot of time, then after reading i've discovered some useful networking instruments such as tcptrack
vlad56324: and saw the hell going in and out my pc w/o reason
vlad56324: i would like to ask: there is some specific distro that by default doesn't need to communicate out of my lan?
vlad56324: i mean, i like and think that there is no harm about having some ARP request and dhcp stuff, but then, i realized that even if i was with closed browser, doing text editing, there was traffic going outside my lan
vlad56324: then i saw some folks that prefer freebsd "for security" but never understood the reasons behind this
vlad56324: may i ask if there is some particular real advantage with freebsd?
vlad56324: you know what: it seems to me that with 56k it was very easy to have some decent "fine grained" control over the packets
☟︎ vlad56324: now with broadband it seems that everyone has the permission to grant the shit out of my pc in terms of TCP connections
vlad56324: and this scares me thinking about of real security
vlad56324: ok and another thing that was really a curiosity after reading the logs
vlad56324: basically i understood that there is this... kinda backdoor
vlad56324: but if i generate entropy with my paper + pen, am i on the safe side or still intel can theoretically fuck me?
☟︎ vlad56324: that's creepy as fuck. Consider that a couple of years ago i was feeling safe generating paper wallets on a online ubuntu distro
deedbot: vlad56324 voiced for 30 minutes.
vlad56324: so true cold storage should be on a dedicated computer, correct?
a111: Logged on 2017-05-02 12:22 asciilifeform: Framedragger: if you think they use distinguishable magic packets, think again
vlad56324: not one that you boot with a live cd w/o internet
vlad56324: You want all new hardware, don't reuse stuff that was already online
vlad56324: and not understood full disk encryption flaws
diana_coman: mircea_popescu> diana_coman iirc the cobra had 80kb ? <- hmmm, iirc 58 keys but I can't say I'm 100% certain
diana_coman: oh, oh; as far as I know there were 2 versions at least and one of them with 80kB, yes
BingoBoingo: <vlad56324> what i would like to ask after reading the logs: what is a safe linux distro to use for day to day computing? << Minix 2 is prolly closest
trinque: good enough for intel's ME
mircea_popescu: and in other tears of modernity, "I was formerly a PhD student at Max Planck Institute for Intelligent Systems, Tübingen, Germany, under the supervision of Bernhard Schölkopf and Stefan Harmeling, where my research focus was image denoising. I have achieved state-of-the-art results using neural networks. I am currently co-founder at TasteHit, a web analytics and personalization startup. We aim to create a unique browsing ex
mircea_popescu: perience tailored to a visitor's taste, using machine learning."
a111: Logged on 2017-11-03 18:21 ben_vulpes: "eyyy, unsuspecting public, i hear ya like holding bags"
a111: Logged on 2017-10-26 17:11 mircea_popescu: anyway, there's still an open thread god damned it. so re "in the hope they'll achieve usg agency status" above : the final socialism, usg's "ourdemocracy" came up with a gamified nationalization process : they naturally confiscate the domain leaders in all domains, under the guise of you know, "pension fund investments" and "consumer protection law enforcement". ie, there's a faux money and a faux legal prong which make sure
mircea_popescu: not liek the public's doing much investment these days. approx on par with good soviet of 1987, had special retainer out of salary for "investments".
a111: Logged on 2017-11-03 18:25 asciilifeform: gotta wonder, how come none of the audience have the half cup of oil in their braincase to answer the 'here is some lolcatcoin, gimme btc in exchange' with 'if it's so great, why dontcha keep it, and why would you trade it for boring old btc'
mircea_popescu: template pretty much is "pay me clerical fee for the styory of method to make $random-figure". whole fucking thing is based on wsd ; which is the problem with tards, fail to distinguish the stories they tell themselves from reality anymore.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-03 19:05 vlad56324: irl i work at a bakery
trinque: guy who can announce what he does without pissing himself also a plus
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 7180.01, vol: 16280.20064890 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 7247.2, vol: 63495.49522234 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 7099.0, vol: 5008.96541161 | Volume-weighted last average: 7225.54283551
a111: Logged on 2017-11-03 19:12 asciilifeform reads 'tcptrack' manual and bewildered, why is it needed ? what's wrong with ' netstat -a ' ?
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-03#1732693 << the danielpbarron eulora thing is intended as work-in-progress os basis for eulora (the mmorpg). it is not specifically secure yet ; it is however cleanner, in that less spurious / unnecessary / unknown or incomprejhensioble stuff included.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2017-11-03 19:17 vlad56324: this is meant to be secure?
a111: Logged on 2017-11-03 19:22 vlad56324: you know what: it seems to me that with 56k it was very easy to have some decent "fine grained" control over the packets
mircea_popescu: people could and routinely did read the whole memory content.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-03 19:26 vlad56324: but if i generate entropy with my paper + pen, am i on the safe side or still intel can theoretically fuck me?
BingoBoingo: Grain fineness is one of those things that scales. If you want good rice start with a few tons rather than pounds.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-03 19:44 vlad56324: i really not have understood this part
a111: Logged on 2017-11-03 20:45 asciilifeform: if nobody's raped'em through it, it is because evidently nobody can be arsed.
mircea_popescu: in other lulz of all time : the pre-collapse of pantsuitistan scholarship of the anglo "peasan't revolt" (item where they beheaded the lord chancellor/treasurer/all cambridge robes they could find etc) was that MAJOR SOCIO-ECONOMICAL and POLITICAL!!! development OF GREAT IMPACT!!11
mircea_popescu: however, post-collapse, the scholarship on the same topic is "probably unimportant nonevent".
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: isn't it great for a free and open society to enjoy a vigurous academia which, like the brain on the healthy body, encased in its grey old stones, can lead through the bog of nonsense towards that enchanted high plateau of truth and sparkling clean springwater on the side ?
shinohai: Trying to celebrate someone's birthday over skype really sux
shinohai: Though taking a drink every time the video buffers is fun. Wheeeeee!