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asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://ossasepia.com/2019/02/07/seppuku-job-market-minimal-dynamic-tasking-in-ada/#selection-139.9098-139.9968 << dun seem like diana_coman's mechanism specialized by creating different 'species' of 'worker' -- but by using case selector, as i expected it would. therefore it remains a puzzle to me why to terminate an' rebirth'em ( to save a few kB of ram when machine load is light ?? )
mircea_popescu: it's just wireframe!
asciilifeform: hm?
mircea_popescu: you can't go "it doesn't seem to me this architectural model is very strong, seems made of polystyrene". yes, the model's made of polystyrene.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i was nitpicking re the algo, rather than the draft coad per se
mircea_popescu: ...
mircea_popescu: "i was nitpicking re strength, not the model per se". wth, it's not necessary the model airplane used to test out the worker hive's going to contain the sort of seating inside you can ~rely on~ to see in the finished item. ☟︎
asciilifeform: fair'nuff
asciilifeform: http://ossasepia.com/2019/02/07/seppuku-job-market-minimal-dynamic-tasking-in-ada/#selection-185.130-185.193 << (again given that i haven't used the threadtron) interested to learn the answr to 'what do they weigh'
asciilifeform: http://ossasepia.com/2019/02/07/seppuku-job-market-minimal-dynamic-tasking-in-ada/#selection-91.517-91.599 << when might this happen ?
asciilifeform: ( as i understand, it could only happen if there is catastrophic error in the logic ? )
mircea_popescu: well no, it couyld happen because hardware is shit, software is shit, electromagnetism, you name it.
mircea_popescu: why did your rk reboot ?
asciilifeform: lol rk crashed and ate own shit, not reboot, yer thinking of the x64
asciilifeform: but yea
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have similar pieces , in http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892778 . ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-05 14:49 asciilifeform: on that subj, attentive ffa reader will notice in certain places asciilifeform marked in comment 'cosmic ray resistance' . this indicates mechanisms where there are two or more separate pieces that ensure a correct computation (or death with alarm bells) if somehow bit flips , when this is inexpensive.
asciilifeform intends eventually to actually try ffa on a micro with deliberately-glitchy environment, e.g. inside that xray oven, and see how this goes in real life
asciilifeform: the tricky bit with experiments like that, is that if you fry it enuff you get sram cells that go metastable, rather than simply flip, and then all bets off
asciilifeform: sorta why people still occasionally bother to bake 'si on saphire' etc rather than 'hey let's tandem 9000 konsoomer z80'
asciilifeform: will note tho, that if yer machine aint actually intended to fly on a rocket, placing it in a pb bottle is cheaper than baking saphire ic.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu may also find interesting , that apparently ~soft~ xray is 'glitchier' than hard ( the latter tends to penetrate w/out transferring energy )
mircea_popescu: certainly.
asciilifeform: in that light the oven oughta make a good ic frier, has adjustable voltage. ☟︎
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893553 << as a very small boy, asciilifeform had this toy, where little rocket with two plastic cosmonauts inside, and they were molded in such a way that they only had torso/arms/head, were whole with the cockpit; and took it, as 3-4y.o. might, quite literally, 'in the dark fyootoor man will be grown into ship, live an' die together' ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-08 00:10 mircea_popescu: "i was nitpicking re strength, not the model per se". wth, it's not necessary the model airplane used to test out the worker hive's going to contain the sort of seating inside you can ~rely on~ to see in the finished item.
asciilifeform: later actually encountered this trope in fiction and thought of the toy.
mircea_popescu: you might've not been the only one, seen a lot of these
mircea_popescu: tho it's more usually woman-spider than man-starship.
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform: i dun think i had a woman-spider single-mold tentaclerape scene as toy. ( maybe in jp they do ? )
asciilifeform: oddly enuff i did not have this reaction to e.g. tin soldier molded in permanent pose with rifle, or similar .
asciilifeform: the rocket pilots specifically looked as if intended to suggest this thought.
mircea_popescu: reportedly centroamericans had same thought when presented with equestrian tin toys.
mircea_popescu: "manhorse!!!"
asciilifeform: oh ha, apparently ~errything~ is sitting on teh net somewhere, https://archive.is/gReBS << subj, behold.
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/5dIdw << apparently other variants were even moar depressing, this poor fucker has only head
mircea_popescu: this might be the first tracked spaceship i ever saw.
mircea_popescu goes away whistling "a mudslide to paradise"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i misremembered, item was a 'moon buggy'
asciilifeform: tho could've sworn also were rocket etc with similar 'feature'.
asciilifeform: i recall pulling the magnets from the motors ( 2!111 of'em ) of that thing.
mircea_popescu: what else is an honest toy motor for!
mircea_popescu: it got so bad in mini-mp household, my father got me a stack of superalloy things. "how can you give that to a child ? you realise what can happen if he swallows one ?" (they were these thin tiny discs with hole in middle, enameled)
mircea_popescu: "do you realise what happens if he keeps mining $50 toys for 35 cent magnets ?"
asciilifeform: i dun think we had neodymium magnet in my orcistan
mircea_popescu: was the only way -- they had to be better, i wouldn't lower myself to mine inferior stuff.
asciilifeform: i mean at all. i dun think even in actual rocket su had'em.
mircea_popescu: i suspect might've been cobalt-nickel or w/e.
asciilifeform: these -- possib
mircea_popescu: in other lulz : "Chinese manufacturers have become a dominant force in neodymium magnet production, based on their control of much of the world's sources of rare earth mines. The United States Department of Energy has identified a need to find substitutes for rare earth metals in permanent magnet technology, and has begun funding such research. The Advanced Research Projects Agency-Energy has sponsored a Rare Earth Alternativ
mircea_popescu: es in Critical Technologies (REACT) program, to develop alternative materials. In 2011, ARPA-E awarded 31.6 million dollars to fund Rare-Earth Substitute projects."
mircea_popescu: the sheer pomposity of these morons.
asciilifeform: lol substitutes ?!!
asciilifeform: 'spreading -- works'
mircea_popescu: the sheer unmitigated gall to announce "they identified and sponsored". what the fuck's it supposed to do, i identified a need for more sluts and sponsored the creation thereof at two bits a titpair. what, usg,dea is better than me or something, is the hallucination here ?
mircea_popescu: leaving aside how the 2011 thread seems to never have return to nobody's concern. coulda baked some quantum computing magnets for the same money.
mircea_popescu: in fact, pressed shitboard supermagnet just as likely as 3d-printed quantum computer or whatever the fuck else. they get all the amateur twerps to pretend like pressed shitboard made houses are 100% true and real houses, what's keeping the imaginary magnets and imaginary computers i wish to know ?
asciilifeform: i suppose in 1 sense 'succeeded', iirc principal eater of nd magnet was ye olde mech hdd. tho i dunthink the rise of ssd had any to do with usg idjicy, only w/ korean coolies slaving in 4 shifts
mircea_popescu: the us could be producing supermagnets out of discarded starbucks cups just as well as it makes "bridges" or "college graduates" or whatever else they supposedly make.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform still no way to have high performance electric engine without high performance magnet. which is all the lulzier considering usgistani "innovation" in "how to go three miles to the galon by first turning it into a large lithium battery"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: small ones certainly
asciilifeform: ( large motors include 0 magnet, i suspect mircea_popescu knew this )
mircea_popescu: large electric engines also ~useless.
asciilifeform: y'know , lifts, submarines, etc
mircea_popescu: sure, and trains.
asciilifeform: it's a bitch to make e.g. small stepper w/out magnet.
mircea_popescu: except the us has no train infrastructure to speak of still, and instead of fixing that obvious problem blew wad on anti-car ; and the sligtht advantage submarine had historically is mostly gone, by now sub and ship equally detecvtable.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: pretty sure even ~these~ they buy from siemens.
asciilifeform: amerisads forgot long ago how to make even such thing as electric motor.
mircea_popescu: well, it'd be unfair to women of color or some shit to make them.
asciilifeform: i expect there will be plenty of attempted-'substitute' lulz, a la the wooden spokes in wheels of late imperial jp trucks.
asciilifeform: it is even rumoured that usg is pouring printolade into fischer-tropsch , a la the ~prev~ reich
mircea_popescu: already in full swing. the one response when getting $item for enslaved usgistani girly is "o wow this is the best $item i ever had".
asciilifeform: ( coal is moar or less the 1 mineral resource left in north a in any substantial qty )
mircea_popescu: which is so su it screams, except of course it dun scream audibly enough to penetrate the us moron shell.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: verily. see also e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-02#1891456 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-02 02:40 asciilifeform: asciilifeform's pet , ~erry day at breakfast : 'when can i eat apple that tastes like apple again'
asciilifeform: see, they haven't found how to make a jonathan apple from anthracite just yet. Moar Studies Needed (tm)(r)
mircea_popescu: a need to not fucking starve was identified, and the ministry of idle pomp and spurious circumstance has issued a raft of confetty with scribblings on them in this general direction!
asciilifeform: in su there were always legends of d00d who keeps cow in city flat and feeds to it 'pravda'
asciilifeform: but usg moar 'modern', goin' 'paperless' supposedly.
asciilifeform: so won't work here.
mircea_popescu: that's not even so much the problem, rather us unlike su very dedicated to feeding moron's vanity, consequently lots of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-07#1893406 sheer cheek. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-07 18:20 mircea_popescu: meanwhile in the everlulz, Cisza 21F sub 3h "Don't you know what lesbian means? fuck you" LordMPofTMSR "Lmao. I should know, I'm sure I fucked more than you."
mircea_popescu: famously, a hungarian was defined cca 1890s, as that species of moron who would rather eat soap wrapped in paper painted his coutnry's flag than french cheese in a plain wrapper.
mircea_popescu: the ustard is that species of moron who imagines anything outside his shithole doesn't, properly speaking, exist.
BingoBoingo: Blog post incoming, an Indula in one of the giant, ancient concrete human warehouses on the Rambla is engulfed in flame. Rest of the building looked ok.
BingoBoingo: 1 fire truck and 4 bombaderos on their motocicletas were on their way down the street when I finished my rubbernecking
mircea_popescu: they have fire bicycles in uy ?!
BingoBoingo: I did not see fat powered fire bikes
BingoBoingo: Smell of burning chicom plastic carried a few blocks. Have a handful of usable pictures.
BingoBoingo: The motos however did not get sirens, only the apparatus
feedbot: http://bingology.net/2019/02/08/fire-in-montevideo/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog -- Fire In Montevideo
BingoBoingo: Apparently I beat the local news to this too
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: wtf is even flammable in these.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The plastic grocery bags they hoard
BingoBoingo: also apparently this unit had plastic window trim
BingoBoingo: Also multi 10kg gas cylinders are popular for stoves
feedbot: http://bimbo.club/2019/02/the-travel-guide/ << Bimbo.Club -- The travel guide
diana_coman: asciilifeform, one could certainly keep at all times 64 worker threads idling and waiting for jobs; initially I had implemented it precisely as such: all it takes is to accept a Get_Job request only when there IS a job to hand out; it adds a bit of complexity in there though because there has to be a flag for "available job" and then it has to be kept up to date correctly (which can be a bit tricky as it's not only when a job is added, it'
diana_coman: s also when a job is finished since the player id may be released or when/if a worker aborts unexpectedly )
diana_coman: re workers aborting unexpectedly: it shouldn't happen, no; but I can't rely on it not happening
diana_coman: that being said, I'm not sure in fact that there is a need for the Initialize procedure itself if I'm to cut something out (it's enough to initialize the array when declaring it - although technically it will happen later than within initialize,it's still before anyone gets to use it so perfectly adequate)
mircea_popescu: the problem is, since you can't guarantee workers staying up, you'll need a way to create them anyway.
mircea_popescu: it is actually better to have a robust life.death cycle than to pretend like death ain't supposed to happen.
diana_coman: re workers and specialisation: the worker tasks are not specialised, they do whatever job they are given and moreover the choice is made by job type as it were
diana_coman: aha
mircea_popescu: there's nothing to force you to kill them any more often than you benefit from anyway.
diana_coman: in mircea_popescu's model/apache terminology the "workers" are in fact my jobs there: they get created , executed, finish
diana_coman: I suspect asciilifeform's point was more along the lines: why kill them at all instead of letting them idle in there until something to do; not really "why do you bother having a way to create them?"
mircea_popescu: what ? no, not at all.
mircea_popescu: apache workers ain't jobs ; and i took alf's comments to mean "why are you killing them 9k times/s", which is in his usual style of random assumptive approach, nobody said they'd be killed often.
diana_coman: if there's nothing for them to do, they get killed; but not sure what's the point in keeping them idling anyway; i.e. if it's busy then no, they don't get killed
mircea_popescu: right.
diana_coman: I'll probably need to find out exactly what the overhead for their creation is anyway ☟︎
mircea_popescu: i suspect you'll end up with them specialized, rather than case-switched, on acct of the overhead involved. however, time wil ltell
diana_coman: overhead of the case-switched/
diana_coman: ?
diana_coman: from the job market's pov it's easier to have them not-specialised really
mircea_popescu: yes. because ada entities keep getting wrapped in things that end up eating runtime to "elaborate" and whatever ion thios vein. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: that much is true.
diana_coman: and the case-switch is done inside the worker so on their time at most
diana_coman: hm, you mean the overhead at creating the job itself then (as that's the object that gets bigger to elaborate)
mircea_popescu: every time you load one you have to load the whole pile of everything, for the whole case set. eventually (it stands to reason) you'll find it cheaper to specialize them. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: but really, no rush with this bikeshed.
diana_coman: aha
auctionbot: Buy order # 1037 has ENDED: No sale. Attn: BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: !Xbuy 308mn 24 1k Wired Filthy Fiats (WU esta bien)
auctionbot: Buy order # 1038 created by BingoBoingo: 1k Wired Filthy Fiats (WU esta bien) Opening: 308mn ecu Ending: 2019-02-09 02:16:24.769899 UTC (23 hours)
BingoBoingo: ^ Auction take 2
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-07#1893544 -> adding to this, on (re)^n -read of docs I doubt there's any benefit in having a controlled type in there; essentially the main thread will *wait* for all tasks spawned by the SJM to finish from what I understand; so then aborting them in a Finalize makes precisely 0 sense and instead I should probably make it a plain array and offer users of the package a non-synchronised procedure to abort them ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-07 23:56 asciilifeform: http://ossasepia.com/2019/02/07/seppuku-job-market-minimal-dynamic-tasking-in-ada/#selection-109.1672-109.1738 << will be interesting to see if this functions if stuffed into a static lib, in light of the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-22#1889467 puzzler
diana_coman: if /when desired (i.e. at shutdown time, the sequence might be something along the lines send stop signal to sjm and then /after a while, if there is anything still running, call the abort)
BingoBoingo: For the Unfairness files: Local media finally reporting last night's fire. What picture do they put above the fold? One lifted from wikipedo where fire wasn't. http://archive.is/2AVuL
BingoBoingo: Though they did cover Uruguay's foreign minister pointing out the obvious: "Para Nin Novoa, Guaidó "es más ilegítimo" que Maduro" https://archive.is/fflqI
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893667 << this is mistake, and imho subtle and worth addressing , i wrote an illustration for mircea_popescu : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/TXKlj/?raw=true ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-08 07:47 mircea_popescu: yes. because ada entities keep getting wrapped in things that end up eating runtime to "elaborate" and whatever ion thios vein.
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/bundle-562160.txt
asciilifeform: in the pictured example, the only item that ends up loaded is the requested one. ☟︎
asciilifeform: i.e. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893671 specifically aint so. ( tho you ~still~ may want to specialize'em for ~different~ reason, if , say, it makes the proggy moar clear ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-08 07:47 mircea_popescu: every time you load one you have to load the whole pile of everything, for the whole case set. eventually (it stands to reason) you'll find it cheaper to specialize them.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893662 << as i currently understand, it will be whatever the pthread overhead is on the given linux ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-08 07:45 diana_coman: I'll probably need to find out exactly what the overhead for their creation is anyway
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/bundle-562164.txt
mircea_popescu: well, we see when it gets there.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo so send them emails / drop by offices in person, "hey, look!"
BingoBoingo: I may have to. May also have to stop by the Bomberos, but that probably involves a lot of union wank.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893686 << oh is that so ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-08 15:45 asciilifeform: in the pictured example, the only item that ends up loaded is the requested one.
mircea_popescu: nifty at that.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo nevermind the bomberos, and fi you're going to do it at all do it today.
diana_coman: hm, in possibly interesting ada-bits: apparently "abort" for tasks does not really kill them if /when they are in an infinite loop; according to ada docs I got the idea of "abort-deferred" i.e. in some states it won't abort but "infinite loop or waiting for a procedure call to return" did not seem to figure there; in practical terms this means that my workers will have to attempt any Job in a guarded manner i.e. give up on it after some ma
diana_coman: ximum set time, so that they can guarantee that they will NEVER block no matter what
diana_coman: (since if they block, they also block the whole thing that is stuck waiting on them and can't kill them even)
mircea_popescu: diana_coman imo you'd rather have them work not in a guarded maner but in an acid-ish manner, and kill them after a set time established administratively.
diana_coman: but I can't kill them if they are looping!!
diana_coman: that's exactly my point above
mircea_popescu: you can not kill them AT ALL no matter what ?
diana_coman: not while they are in an infinite loop it seems ☟︎
diana_coman: will look at it some more and bbl
mircea_popescu: this is fucking ridiculous, you can't have a language like that.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'll shoot em an email today. Their office is out in the sticks near the Palacio Legislativo. Long walk for a below the fold story.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it might tickle you to find that while the mountain lion (aka, puma) is a species of "least concern" (ie, in the pantsuit designator of animal concern trolling, they figure as "excluded") nevertheless the pantsuit comfortably living off other people's income in and around los angeles are "advising" "the town" on how to "improve genetic diversity" in the "fragmented" populations.
mircea_popescu: you see, highways are impassable WALLS for the lions ; and because "genetic diversity" is the summum bonum for late-roosevelt pantsuits, it then follows there must be "land bridges" erected so african immigrant lions can come into the suburban lions' house an' cuck 'em. ☟︎
BingoBoingo: Lol
mircea_popescu: at least they're systematic in their retardedness.
BingoBoingo: Team puma is also down a young male after it aggressed against a jogger and got choked out this week. Not really qntra, but in the files for blogfodder.
mircea_popescu: how can anyone be "down a young male" ? that's what the fuck they're for, i'm not "down six boxes" because i got six boxes on atm.
BingoBoingo: They are "down a young male" in the same way Baltimore or Ferguson profess to be before they ritually burn so the big drug drop can make it in
mircea_popescu: yeah, say, i was watching some oliver stone flicks (as part of an aborted integral, jesus that guy sucks, and the 70s suck with him) and in one of them lester (of cucking de niro in casino fame) was a very poor reporter going to san salvador to report on the 1970s maduro thing there (which btw -- last i heard still ongoing).
BingoBoingo: "Asshole jogger teased its diverse prey seeking drive, then choked the poor kitty after baiting it"
mircea_popescu: 1970s us poverty very much correctly and convincingly depicted, and then when running into latino poverty, he excalims "shit, this is like baltimore or something"
mircea_popescu: so now, considering this 1970-2020 fiddy year bridge -- how is baltimore ? did the black preachers turn it into a garden yet ?
BingoBoingo: How unfair the Uruguayos managed to produce a second city center in their capital during the interval.
BingoBoingo rereading http://trilema.com/2012/the-stockexchange-shareholders-on-welfare/ 4 and a half years later
mircea_popescu: you mean seven
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893711 << iirc it was seriously usg.considered to introduce proper, african lion to 'midwest' usa ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-08 16:31 mircea_popescu: you see, highways are impassable WALLS for the lions ; and because "genetic diversity" is the summum bonum for late-roosevelt pantsuits, it then follows there must be "land bridges" erected so african immigrant lions can come into the suburban lions' house an' cuck 'em.
asciilifeform: wonder what happened to that.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Right you are, nearly a decade
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform prolly died out.
mircea_popescu: lion can't take frost, gets pneumonia and dies.
asciilifeform: either that or choked on the mcfat.
mircea_popescu: one way to think of species is in terms of morphology, classify-by-what-it-looks-like.
mircea_popescu: this was fashionable in the 1800s, but to my eye today, better way to think of species is in terms of immune system protein trees.
mircea_popescu: classified by what-cocci-get-it
mircea_popescu: large cats are very vulnerable to common pneumococcus, whioch makes one wonder whether it being "the cow disease" in humans is merely coincidence
mircea_popescu: or whether the cows carry it as defense miasma.
asciilifeform: could easily; no reason why this kinda thing gotta be limited to plant kingdom
mircea_popescu: of course, education, esp common trunk education, dun include anything as modern as support for this non-1800s approach.
mircea_popescu: but it's still there.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893706 << consider this gedankenexperiment: say you have an infinite loop, incrementing a variable N. at some point you asynchronously kill it. what is N then ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-08 16:28 diana_coman: not while they are in an infinite loop it seems
mircea_popescu: undefined.
asciilifeform: correct
asciilifeform: and why wouldja want undefines in your proggy ?
mircea_popescu: it's not in my proggy anymore, i stopped it.
asciilifeform: the appeal of asynchronous killing is an artifact of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892449 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-04 22:12 mircea_popescu: equiring more perl -- the perl programmer who veers off the road into the forest will get out of his car and cut down each and every tree that blocks his progress, then drive a few meters and repeat the whole process. whether he gets where he wanted to go or not is immaterial -- a perl programmer will happily keep moving forward and look busy. getting a perl programmer back on the road is a managerial responsibility, and it
mircea_popescu: no dude, the appeal of "do what i tell you to do" is an artefact of the republic even existing in the first place.
mircea_popescu: moreover, it's quite evident WHENCE it came in this discussion : we have some problems to solve.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you permit asynchronous killing of thread, ~any~ part of your proggy could conceivably end up as that N, you have nfi what that thing was doing when you shot it
mircea_popescu: so ?
asciilifeform: so it's same 'so' as 'hey i'll follow a dangling pointer if i damn well please, so'
mircea_popescu: yes, and if i have a gun in the house "anyone could in principle end up pointed at with it". wtf is this, pantsuit hour ?
asciilifeform: in this case the thing is loaded, cocked, and pointing at yer foot.
mircea_popescu: if someone shuts down some procedure i didn't want shut down, i'll find them and kill them. and meanwhile, i can't have gord eating my sandwiches as a 28 yo "man".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the q is why you even ~have~ a wedgedeable -- i.e. having to be async-killed -- subprocess in yer proggy.
mircea_popescu: the only correct solution to "this program has spawned something it can't kill" is "kill the program then". ☟︎
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, that's not the fucking question. the question is i don't have a wedgeable, and "somehow" the shit dun die when i say.
asciilifeform: this is entirely correct, if you have a wedgeable subprocess in a correctly-written proggy, there is a catastrophic mistake and time to switch whole thing off and find where.
asciilifeform: ( could be dead iron, say )
mircea_popescu: the only possible basis for society, human as well as computer, is "all sons live exactly as long as father permits them, and no longer."
mircea_popescu: if i can't kill threads any time i want, I WILL NEVER SPAWN ANY.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you accomplish this by giving the subs a termination condition
asciilifeform: rather than letting'em infinite-loop and having to async-kill'em
mircea_popescu: this is besides the point. my power to kill any thing at any time shall not be infringed.
mircea_popescu: there's no "the way to do that".
mircea_popescu: i will kill ANY THING at ANY TIME.
asciilifeform: the mains switch is right there lol
mircea_popescu: if ada does not manage to provide me with all the tools i need to the exclusion of the power switch, i will ditch ada and move on to programming in power switches.
mircea_popescu: there can not be such a thing as a language that infringes the father's priviledge.
mircea_popescu: it's not a language, it's a wankpile.
mircea_popescu: fucking reason i even moved off windows was when i discovered that unlike dos, it does not support this. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: that was all it took.
asciilifeform: pretty sure you can get at the underlying pthread and term it, if you gotta. just like you can get at raw c ptrs , as illustrated in e.g. http://btcbase.org/patches/udp_genesis . my observation aint 'shuddyp and suck, lang tied yer hands for yer own good' but 'if your proggy is actually correct, you won't find yerself ~having~ to individually scalpel out threads'
mircea_popescu: so then i'm guessing if indeed this problem is encountered thing should just die altogether. ☟︎
asciilifeform: aha, imho it's a 'yer iron is on fire' condition.
asciilifeform: to run with mircea_popescu's analogy, you want to birth the sons such that they go, when ordered, to the seppuku room, lay down the white sheet, and carefully dump out their guts into the provided pot; rather than having to chop'em up in yer living room, where they'll shit selves, thrash around breaking the fine china, and make whatever other mess.
mircea_popescu: i can buy that.
asciilifeform actually grasps mircea_popescu's pov quite well, after coupla decades with broken soft that does 'whatever it feels like', one starts thinking of 'i want control' in the sense of 'all i want is a big enuff spiked club to smash it all with'. but if you ~actually have~ proper control, cuz you wrote a correct proggy, then what you really want is 'feldmarschall's baton', not club.
mircea_popescu: all things rest on the fundamental "do what i say or i'll fucking kill you".
asciilifeform: rright but with the implicit 'and after kill you, will get new one, who does what was told'
asciilifeform: otherwise yer running abbatoir, with cows, rather than army.
mircea_popescu: i can buy that.
mircea_popescu: and ftr, it's not "coupla decades with broken soft". it's coupla decades interacting socially with the women and children "of" inept http://bimbo.club/2019/02/the-travel-guide/ dorks, so that i'm stuck lowering my backseat window and screaming "does she ever get laid ?!" to mother-daughter couple sutured at the palm-elbow joint.
asciilifeform: that also a broken soft of a kind.
mircea_popescu: yes, of the kind in http://ossasepia.com/2011/01/29/antreprenorii-si-misticismul/#selection-37.0-37.548 and in http://trilema.com/2010/aventurile-zilei/#selection-49.0-49.1103 and more generally http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/#selection-133.0-133.837
asciilifeform: btw in re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893771 , ye olde dos, for all of its virtues, is possibly worst example, when you run yer proggy there, os loses all control, you may as well have booted straight into yer proggy without any os ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-08 17:05 mircea_popescu: fucking reason i even moved off windows was when i discovered that unlike dos, it does not support this.
mircea_popescu: power button worked well enough.
asciilifeform: aha, erry dos box i ever owned, i truly 'programmed with the mains switch'
mircea_popescu: see ?
asciilifeform: ( to the point that the sov pc clone 'iskra', 1st comp i ever laid hands on, actually had a cpu reset key ~on kbd~ , nice big red thing )
asciilifeform: it's a bitch tho, what you really want is to lose the wedge, rather than errything you keyed in the past xx min. hence asciilifeform's elaboration of the principle in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=215 .
mircea_popescu: i'm not against a kernel that a) never itself crashes and b) always kills anything i want FOR me, and elegantly.
mircea_popescu: but i will not stand for this "can't kill my baby" nonsense.
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/mOXQE << for thread-completeness. iskra kbd. the magic 'anykey' is on upper left hand.
asciilifeform: for extra lulz, asciilifeform's brother introduced the red button to him as 'эникей' , and for yrs later thought this, 'ha, programmers sadistically exhort green n00b to reset cpu'
mircea_popescu: they do.
asciilifeform: used to , at least.
asciilifeform: afaik what passes for comp nowadays ( where 'it dun fit on the pnoje screen!!11' ) often dun even ~have~ a reset.
BingoBoingo: And, escooters are here https://www.montevideo.com.uy/Noticias/Monopatines-compartidos-acaban-de-llegar-y-ya-se-vende-uno-robado-uc709584
mircea_popescu still recalls discussion in the heart of what later became one of romania's largest isps, when sold to i udn recall who : five dudes each with large-ish ad hoc networks (i suspect you recall those) were talking about pooling, and they needed what in the civilised world is a peering noc, and it was discussed what items to buy
mircea_popescu: and i said "why would you buy these small shits, they don't even have a reset button"
mircea_popescu: the pov prevailed, and their early ad-hoc "dc" in a sovok flat room somewhere contained proper boxed desktops instead of server racks. ☟︎
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893756 -> this makes in fact a lot of sense esp given asciilifeform's observation that indeed, that's an unrecoverable error state; so this sounds good: if child task doesn't die when aborted then kill self (taking the task with self too ofc); I'll experiment with this but afaik so far it should work ☝︎☟︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-08 17:01 mircea_popescu: the only correct solution to "this program has spawned something it can't kill" is "kill the program then".
diana_coman: and to clarify just in case there was any doubt: NO, workers are not meant to loop for ever or any such nonsense; BUT I still can't assume that can not happen!
mircea_popescu: they have a whole signalling thing in ada, so you don't have to do the retarded c infinite loop ☟︎
diana_coman: sure, as the code shows there is no infinite loop anyway yes; workers will wait on Get_Job and that's pretty much
mircea_popescu: aha.
diana_coman: but the whole thing here was more about what completing the job means - which so far is not defined and at any rate it's defined with the Job, not with the worker as it were; anyway, I stumbled on this just as part of usual "poke new things around in all directions"
asciilifeform: incidentally, before $thread is forgotten, oughta add that unix's model of process-killin' is a convincing illusion, but not the Real Thing, given e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-31#1838388 ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-07-31 16:15 asciilifeform: unix i/o is retarded, if blocking read blocks, it gives you a zombie process , and the next process you start that tried to read same tty, will also become zombie
asciilifeform: i.e. even ~there~ you dun have the desired 'thread could have been doing anyffin at all, but can cleanly async-term it' .
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893803 << i was reading this and waiting for the inevitable 'and then one day elbow' but apparently nodice ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-08 17:46 mircea_popescu: the pov prevailed, and their early ad-hoc "dc" in a sovok flat room somewhere contained proper boxed desktops instead of server racks.
mircea_popescu: nah, they sold out, became https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UPC_Romania
mircea_popescu: prior to that, "astral telecom"
asciilifeform: incidentally virtually all the cages in BingoBoingo's magic cellar contain 1 or moar (old enuff to show yellowing...) desktops/towers
BingoBoingo: The split is more cages without any desktops and cages that are all desktops.
asciilifeform: i admit i did not exhaustively peek in each
mircea_popescu: ugc-europe / "liberty global" being this sorta economic warfare support wing, back in the 90s when they still had a clue re http://btcbase.org/log/2014-03-25#581083 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-03-25 20:52 mircea_popescu: same thing had the us the ballsack to make iraq the 51st state
mircea_popescu: "In May 2011, UPC launched for the first time the 3D technology, which changed the TV program viewing modality."
mircea_popescu: this shit's so lulzy.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893807 << the 1 concern there is blocking unix i/o calls, these can potentially wedge ( if not wrapped with appropriate timeout ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-08 18:12 mircea_popescu: they have a whole signalling thing in ada, so you don't have to do the retarded c infinite loop
asciilifeform: ideally you wouldn't even i/o from a worker thread, imho, only main prog would i/o.
asciilifeform: ( in re the q of how to keep thread from wedging ~each other~, consult dijkstra, not asciilifeform )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lol! even in ro, '3d tv' ?!
asciilifeform: 'smellovision' when.
mircea_popescu: eh, the divergence between what they put in their reports to shareholders and what's going on irl is aptly summarized by that "which changed the TV program viewing modality" wooden tongue explosion.
mircea_popescu: severina pascu evidently had a lot of wrist wringing / re-did the translation 18 times until such gem was polished into its current greatness. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: (the usgistani model, where "career women" and "corporate life" and what the fuck is ~particularly~ amusing in romania, where the difference between this, http://gothtypes.wikia.com/wiki/Emo_Goth and the lengthy history of male receptive homosexuality social expression can simply not be made.
mircea_popescu: notwithstanding it distinguishes among things like http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-07#1893496 is native and automatic. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-07 20:05 mircea_popescu: romanians imply various subtle distinction. eg, "gargaun" would be the sort of skittering beetle that digs unseen and ruins structures, like termite or weevil (the folk name of which, "gargarita", very much model for name)
mircea_popescu: but they simply never found the linguistic resources (yes, that's a pun.)
mircea_popescu: actually, thinking about it : there was a hysterical poster of 1990s vintage, produced of romanians mocking the blown away reaction of ameritards on contact with romanian workplace mat. because yes, in ro the way to discuss the boss among workers is "that cocksucker", and the customers are very much "those insufferable morons" and so following. but in usg, the manner to address systematic problems is trhough minutia, and so i ☟︎
mircea_popescu: t went, "dear employees, please do not refer to the hr vp as 'nefututa aia'" and so following to exhaustion.
mircea_popescu: sadly i can't seem to locate it anymore. the things you end up missing ;/
mircea_popescu: pity the internet wasn't invented by romanians, it'd have racial resistance to trolling built in by default.
mircea_popescu: and for completness, let us archive https://www.apropotv.ro/showbiz/-in-anii-90-era-una-dintre-cele-mai-frumoase-femei-din-romania-vezi-cat-de-schimbata-e-acum--13807822-articol
asciilifeform: ugh wat happened there ? they built a mcd and she took up eating in it ?
mircea_popescu: (i know it sounds ridoinculous, but obscure starlet took job to do some show or other in ro and as a result ended up hounded by ~all males, including the "finance minister" (a "technocratic expert" bla bla etcetera), the star soccer player, the star tennis player / chief bisnitar etc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what happened, http://trilema.com/2009/problema-cu-casatoria/ happened. chick got married.
asciilifeform: aa
mircea_popescu: nobody even fucking knows such a thing as "laura stone" even existed, except for romanians old enough to recall the 90s.
asciilifeform: not many folx remember old champ tennisist either
asciilifeform wonders whether e.g. that microshit compound in bucharest, is run along http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893837 trad, or ustard.conventionally ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-08 18:39 mircea_popescu: actually, thinking about it : there was a hysterical poster of 1990s vintage, produced of romanians mocking the blown away reaction of ameritards on contact with romanian workplace mat. because yes, in ro the way to discuss the boss among workers is "that cocksucker", and the customers are very much "those insufferable morons" and so following. but in usg, the manner to address systematic problems is trhough minutia, and so i
mircea_popescu: ilie nastase ? dood was supposed to be "rich businessman" in a romania that had very much the "luxor center for businessmen" outlook, owing to a complete and utter http://trilema.com/2009/de-mogulibus/#selection-57.0-65.473 , before http://trilema.com/2010/s-o-lamurim-pe-asta-cu-securitatea/#selection-53.0-53.694
mircea_popescu: ie, he ran off, made some dough ($100 was an immense sum in a country where yearly incomes averaged $50)
asciilifeform: was this that very same 'varanul' ? or lesser clone ?
mircea_popescu: diana_coman do you happen to recall / still have that poster ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah, entirely different item. this is more http://trilema.com/2014/lets-do-mark-cuban/
asciilifeform: aa, the kind that runs off with 'investor'olade , rather than public coffer
mircea_popescu: ie, athlete/lottery winner being convinced by entourage that "he has something to say" in the http://trilema.com/2018/yes-bitch-i-would-bring-it/ vein of world-establishing saying,
mircea_popescu: nah, rather, "winner" of tournament thingee, now stuck pretending like he's a sorta king sui generis.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893832 << might as well mock linkedin's "protections", neh. https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/C4E03AQFpUoy6Vdur9Q/profile-displayphoto-shrink_800_800/0?e=1554940800&v=beta&t=ucyjKOxSqYUjgPSTsLkHvOUZlH3ErYItoPcikRklugc << ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-08 18:35 mircea_popescu: severina pascu evidently had a lot of wrist wringing / re-did the translation 18 times until such gem was polished into its current greatness.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, you might enjoy http://trilema.com/2012/pasunismul-noua-religie-a-lumii-prostilor/ from back when mp mostly wrote about orc amateurism. very male flavour, same fizz.
asciilifeform: oh neato, ty, i'll eat
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this reads like ye olde (imho great, btw) guide to perpetuum-mobile aficionados
asciilifeform: ( i dun recall whether was on trilema, or older, elsewhere )
asciilifeform: was a kind of taxonomy of dodges/'fatlogic' gymnastics
mircea_popescu: how did it go ?
mircea_popescu: possibru not on trilema
asciilifeform: wish i could dredge up the orig. but from memory it had a 'resists formalization' definitely
asciilifeform: 'won't commit to writing down an equation for love or money'
asciilifeform: 'identifies similars as idempotents'
asciilifeform: buncha these.
asciilifeform: and hrm where was that three-cycle engine thread.
mircea_popescu: may be schwartz ? but as a bonus : http://trilema.com/2010/voi-nu-meritati-respect/#selection-41.0-41.597 hory shit, 100% costa rica's heredia-alajuela axis!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: possibly was schwartz. had also a great point where 'crackpot will find how to take the 'proof' to where its demolition requires ever slightly moar advanced grasp of subj than he is able to muster'
asciilifeform: ( arguably a variant of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-18#1686299 thinking ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-18 22:58 asciilifeform: whaack is quite likely thinking of the bulk of the b00k, which consists of blockcipher liquishit which is complicated for no reason at all other than the religion where 'it is confusing to ME, author, and therefore Must Be Hard To Break'
mircea_popescu: i confess i like it, as expression, but it also grates me. deeper understanding is not generally "more advanced" in the sense of, "sits atop larger pyramid", but generally in the sense of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-04#1884426 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-04 17:18 mircea_popescu: why the fuck didn't i think of that.
mircea_popescu: that literally ~advanced~ metamaterial isn't for this advance further, but rather -- closer.\
asciilifeform: right! it's ~never in the 'pyramid' sense
asciilifeform: it's in the 'whole thing is a bridge to nowhere on acct of [noether's symmetry or other item perpetrator is entirely innocent of]'
mircea_popescu: i suppose the dead endness of dead ends is ~always~ going to be sitting on a pyramid tho. "how do you know this can't be" very different from "here, try it, it works"
asciilifeform: 'pyramid' is typically product of 'linear mind' ( from mircea_popescu's recent piece on subj ) pilin' up whatever dung he could muster
asciilifeform: e.g. the infamous circle-squarers, sometimes produced book-length piles o'???
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/02/brexit-spirit-no-fault-divorce-coming-to-airstrip-one/ << Qntra -- Brexit Spirit: No Fault Divorce Coming To Airstrip One
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, I found only this one http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Iitk3/?raw=true although I remember a better one ☟︎
asciilifeform: could've sworn that item was subj of old thrd
mircea_popescu: this seems familiar.
mircea_popescu: yeah, i suspect might be it.
mircea_popescu: "It has been brought to our attention [...] that offensive language is commonly used by [...] staff. Such behavior, in addition to violating our policy, is highly unprofessional and offensive to both visitors and staff." << very typical flavour of bureaucrat alt-worlding, "here staff, here's wha
mircea_popescu: t is offensive to you"
mircea_popescu: very much the unifying thread of http://trilema.com/2018/hey-women-did-you-know-that-before-the-pantsuited-hilarity-gave-you-your-civil-rights-you-were-living-in-slavery/ and tlp's "hey x people, did you know you hate y people ?" usg.media model.
mircea_popescu: "staff" didn't know what's highly offensive to it until the nigger brigade showed up to enlighten!
mircea_popescu: come to think about it, perhaps the largest open question re ro language would be why exactly everything exasperatingly dubious belongs to the Fish.
mircea_popescu: tyvm diana_coman
BingoBoingo: "
BingoBoingo: 10. You should never call partner representatives as boul dracului or t�mpitu\' ala." << Gem
mircea_popescu: sadly they sound like nothing in english. "devli's ox" wtf is that ?!
mircea_popescu: timpit doesn't even exist in any sense, unless you dig out slavonic. what's the english ~word~ for someone made dull by repeated blunt skull trauma ?
trinque: they're "punch drunk" ?
BingoBoingo: Nah, that's only when they are on tilt
mircea_popescu: that's acute, the idea here's chronic.
mircea_popescu: pity it's missing, too, because i know of scarcely better word to denote us corp drone besides ro tîmpiți.
asciilifeform: in other noose, asciilifeform walks ever closer to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-21#1882654 , the ro item http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-26#1729202 turned out to contain an exact 1x2cm ~purpose-made cavity~ in each heel, and they wore through simultaneously . i.e. obsolescence bomb. ☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-12-21 22:24 asciilifeform walks on just this side of the razor's edge of 'fucking, i'ma make own shoes'
a111: Logged on 2017-10-26 13:27 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-26#1729160 << for perhaps first time in life i have real shoes nao
asciilifeform: filled'em with high pressure silicone for petrol pumps. but still fucking outrageous.
asciilifeform: in usa you can walk into supposed shoe place ( http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769002 ) and pay $maxint, and will still get ~this ( not to mention , it's a lemon market, the folx with ~money here buy decorative fucktardery with wooden soles , not actually made for walking ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-11 15:50 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i suspect that decent shoes are somehow illegal in usa. they are ~entirely unavailable in any shop i've ever walked into there.
asciilifeform: how the fuck is it, that in '40s they not only had shoes that one could walk from moscow to berlin and back, but cheaply enuff that erry piece of cannon fodder could have a pair. ☟︎
BingoBoingo: Burlington Problem. Outside of Clotheirs lucky enough to find patronage, the sector is dominiated by cost cutting and product turnover. Every now and then pieces of butthurt "sneaker investors" pop up with the penetrated feeling very sore their forum investments fell apart in storage without ever having been worn.
mircea_popescu: so come over buy some shoes/clothes/gent wares.
mircea_popescu: bimbo can take you there, optionally in schoolgirl outfit.
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in teeth and claw, today "burning bob beck" exhibit 1: the hotlinkers at google: https://archive.is/yKcpC exhibit 2: the out of WoT but tin women free DDG https://archive.is/PJvE4
BingoBoingo: And from the fallen out of communion files, Pete got credit card frauded http://www.contravex.com/2019/02/02/what-do-credit-card-thieves-like-to-buy-guns-and-games-in-paris/
asciilifeform: i didnt see much worth buying in BingoBoingostan.. or was mircea_popescu speaking of his locale ☟︎
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: holy mother of fuck is that d00d's www a snoar nowadays ☟︎
BingoBoingo: Chronic Domestication Syndrome
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: He had to have been speaking of his tropical paradise.
asciilifeform: i admit i have some difficulty picturing proper, winter-capable fur-lined boots sold in cr, but if mircea_popescu says he saw this, i will believe
asciilifeform: ( and will look for'em when i finally get the chance )
BingoBoingo: Ah, those are the items in question!
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: yea, the kind where you can do rain, shine, winter, summer, through standing water, wherever
asciilifeform: mud esp.
asciilifeform: sometimes i think half of the mud in the world, lives right here in swampistan
BingoBoingo: Well, "Redwing 606" hasn't rotted yet, but I haven't been wearing them much this summer either. Also not fur lined.
asciilifeform: these look solid. tho i fuckinghate laces.
BingoBoingo: Outsource dealing with the laces to pet
BingoBoingo: I can say these are more shoe than any other shoes I have had before. On the other hand I not have experience with the shoes that set you bar for "shoes"
asciilifeform: lol check out what their www shat forth ?
asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/cDPk3/?raw=true
BingoBoingo: Eat more MicroShaft
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: afaik the state-of-the-art bar is still http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893909 . ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-08 21:56 asciilifeform: how the fuck is it, that in '40s they not only had shoes that one could walk from moscow to berlin and back, but cheaply enuff that erry piece of cannon fodder could have a pair.
asciilifeform: afaik these aint gettable (new) today, without time machine, tho.
asciilifeform: rather like the old thread with mircea_popescu's top hat.
asciilifeform: aaat least it's a pair of 100bux boot, and not pete's '15 days in the shop and $10`750 in servicing costs,ii since then he’s only spent 4 days in the shop and $3`750 in servicing costs.' toyota
asciilifeform: ( http://www.contravex.com/2019/02/07/three-years-with-jay/ , lulzy )
BingoBoingo: That's only somewhere between 4 to 7 air cooled VW Fuscas down here.
asciilifeform: imho it's hilarious, d00d is loaded and yet there he is , buying plastic tubs that run winblowz and thinking they're cars
BingoBoingo: Nah, he domesticated, tempered his past hobbies, and is on an all too familiar track.
asciilifeform: speaking of domestic appliances, the freight people called, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893570 item is set to come in on monday ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-08 00:34 asciilifeform: in that light the oven oughta make a good ic frier, has adjustable voltage.
asciilifeform: 'where sir is loading dock' 'no dock, put on asphalt' ☟︎