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mircea_popescu: meanwhile in continuations http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-31#1891084 of antique lulz, http://trilema.com/2014/the-nigger-a-practical-exercise/ ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-31 01:54 asciilifeform: (possibly the only gavin still going from that period?)
mircea_popescu: that anil dash moron with aspirations also "still around". huzzah for cheap ramen.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892053 << updated sig can be found in the comments here >> http://trinque.org/2018/11/27/cuntoo-bootstrapper/#comment-52 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-03 17:20 mircea_popescu: hanbot pick a laptop, bake the man's cuntoo. (principal issue, that gentoo->cuntoo "bridge", see if his sig matches).
mircea_popescu: need i mention that this is SUCH a wonderfully elegant device for checking exactly what we're interested in checking.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anything we want ot include in this month's s.nsa report ? ☟︎
feedbot: http://bingology.net/2019/02/04/ring-lardner-and-confronting-my-own-inner-hayseed/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog -- Ring Lardner And Confronting My Own Inner Hayseed
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo anthropologist ; disservice.
BingoBoingo: ty, fxd
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892214 <-- o hey, ty! ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-03 21:04 mircea_popescu: spyked nice article! it might even end up the current linkpoint for the various http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-25#1889920 lost souls, "here, we know the future" item.
spyked: re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892216 , http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892221 : a) do you mean the alt "title=..." text? I'll add it to the list of things to look into; b) pingback delivery is for now a manual process. will also have to add automation to thetarpit feature list ☝︎☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-03 21:04 mircea_popescu: but i must protest re your blogotron that a) whay do footnote anchors not load the footnote in a hoover overlay! and b) whay does it send no pingbacks ? (or does it, did trilema eat them ?)
a111: Logged on 2019-02-03 22:33 diana_coman: spyked, fwiw I did not get the pingback from your blog either
spyked: more generally: although I've been tempted to switch to mp-wp, I'm still hoping to grow the current thetarpit code base into a minimal cl-based mp-wp-like blogotron. I'ma also put a genesis on the todo list. ☟︎☟︎
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892217 <-- for some reason, I took zenofeller to be a proto-trilema. I archived some of the posts, I think some of them can still be dug via archive.org ☝︎☟︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-03 21:04 mircea_popescu: an' also, what writings predating no longer online you mean ?
asciilifeform back inbiz
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892238 << possibly oughta include the tidbit re arithmetical part of ffa being 100% built (can gen rsa primez nao, can do so easily after ch17, where looping is introduced) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-04 03:34 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anything we want ot include in this month's s.nsa report ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: also can include the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-30#1890719 lul, if there's space. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-30 16:46 asciilifeform: diana_coman: '0.61 seconds per iteration of M-R' is also lulzy , in context of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-24#1889742
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892248 << 1st i hear of the name, seems to be at least coupla diff people. tho dug up a https://archive.is/WnZJY , which reads almost trilema-like... ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-04 12:56 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892217 <-- for some reason, I took zenofeller to be a proto-trilema. I archived some of the posts, I think some of them can still be dug via archive.org
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/7Pvov << moar from same fossilized www. whether in fact ancient mircea_popescu engl. practice or not, it's pretty good imho.
asciilifeform: ( ftr nuffin asciilifeform wrote in that period is imho worth the electrons. the only own item i even bothered pickling & preserving from that time, is http://www.loper-os.org/vintage/parallelsid/parasid.html )
asciilifeform took 1 single 'day off' and nao buried in tall pile of various chores. will slowly eat log buffer later today.
spyked: asciilifeform, also related to "zeno" http://trilema.com/2009/am-scris-o-carte/
asciilifeform: spyked: i have that b00k, and liked
mircea_popescu: spyked that's what i mean. it\s very convenient when reading short footnotes
asciilifeform: 'To sane humans, such a character is bewildering, but let's not forget an important piece of the puzzle. Jim Blow isn't there for sane humans. He's there for a very specific category of defective human minds. They call themselves "hackers" or something like that, and the rest of the world calls them nerds. ' << a++ imho
mircea_popescu: incidentally, either spyked or lobbes what do you need to make a complete gutenberg.org copy ? it IS going away, for one thing the initiator guy died and for the other thing, with their world-famous http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627828 there's no way they'll stay online all that long. ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-15 23:50 mircea_popescu: which incidentally - has been read TODAY by more people than read ALL of marcel proust's works since the making of gutenberg.org
mircea_popescu: should prolly also salvage http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/ but that's going to be more work than a straight download & strip headers job.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: apparently gutenberg is rsync'able ( https://archive.is/PWeNA ) , tho i haven't tried
mircea_popescu: aha. not much work.
mircea_popescu: totally must-be-done tho, lest the BingoBoingo 's of the future end up missing out on their soulfood.
asciilifeform: would suck to have it end up like 'dejanews' et al.
mircea_popescu: there's no doubt in my mind it will.
mircea_popescu: never take pantsuit useful sites for granted ; they're always useful momentarily and coincidentally, because pantsuit is always more pantsuit than anything else, and the only thing pantsuit is is stupid, thus therefore useless and annoying.
asciilifeform: http://flibusta.is is asciilifeform's routine 'gutenberg', been a while since i looked at the actual one ☟︎
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can't be helped, you write in english.
asciilifeform: yea won't dispute that oughta back up the shakespear etc
asciilifeform: cuz it's headed to http://www.loper-os.org/?p=752#selection-99.0-217.84 .
mircea_popescu: shakespeare isn't even the major problem ; the major problem are the english greats pantsuit ~deliberately~ ain't talking about, because very much http://trilema.com/2014/in-which-you-become-grain/ sorta reasons
asciilifeform: verily.
mircea_popescu: there's ALWAYS a denied middle in everything pantsuit does. shakespeare, it perceives it has no choice but to talk about, because a) "too big to fail" and b) whatever, "we'll '''antibody it away anyway".
mircea_popescu: but lardner, who ever talked of the most important american writer in the us ? and WHY NOT ?
mircea_popescu: very much exactly http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165#selection-311.0-311.469 reasons, yes ?
asciilifeform: yarvin's original claim to fame (of a kind) was a short and abortive attempt at this, he dug up a buncha confederate/slavery/etc texts and mirrored/commented
mircea_popescu: "we'd much rather not all be jack keefe, and you know what ? if we never ever mention it it's just as good as if we actually weren't. also, don't say king coon, nigger or cripple."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform problem being, those are shockingly fucking stupid.
mircea_popescu: but yes, if one was aiming to alt-pantsuit jirinovski status, that's the right play.
asciilifeform: good % was ( i admit, did not eat the whole collection, was snoar )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892244 << manual how ? i have a script somewhere doing it for trilema, want me to dig it out ? ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-04 12:52 spyked: re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892216 , http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892221 : a) do you mean the alt "title=..." text? I'll add it to the list of things to look into; b) pingback delivery is for now a manual process. will also have to add automation to thetarpit feature list
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892247 << see how comms trip you up ? had you ~said~ this much i'd have said very different things, because i entirely don't see the problem with a cl blogotron. ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-04 12:54 spyked: more generally: although I've been tempted to switch to mp-wp, I'm still hoping to grow the current thetarpit code base into a minimal cl-based mp-wp-like blogotron. I'ma also put a genesis on the todo list.
asciilifeform has at various times attempted cl blogotron, but broke teeth on acct of insufficient wwwfu. if spyked decides to genesis his, would seriously consider converting
asciilifeform: mp-wp seems to work great , but asciilifeform hobbles when tryin' to modify it, php feels inescapably like cobol when i work with it
mircea_popescu: you will be nonplussed to hear that my only mental model for php is this "lisp" thing they had for "especially bright kids to learn how to computer" bla bla back when i was a teen.
mircea_popescu: i dunno why specifically it was called lisp, but it was stupid and verbose and i fucking hated it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's 3 generations of maffs students to whom 'lisp' means precisely this
mircea_popescu: the annoying part is, i hated it so much i don't even have any distinct memory sufficient to identify wtf it even was.
asciilifeform: most victims of this type of 'education' carry only 1 or 2 nervous ticks, e.g. paren-phobia , into adulthood
asciilifeform: ( http://www.loper-os.org/?p=295 oblig )
mircea_popescu: it didn't even have paranthesises!
mircea_popescu: besides, derive was half-parens by weight, or more, and i liked derive fine.
asciilifeform: neither did mccarthy's orig lisp btw
asciilifeform ~still uses~ 'derive' on occasion.
mircea_popescu: i dunno what it was, but the only fucking time i threatened a wanna-be teacher with shooting in my life. dork was derealized enough to think i was kidding.
asciilifeform also has a ~decade-long on&off proj to reverse the thing properly. but not much movement on that front since tuning into tmsr.
asciilifeform: 'derive' actually contains an ultra-optimised, hand-asmed msdos lisp.
mircea_popescu: you know asciilifeform ... just cutting out the asm lisp compiler and putting it on loper may be a huge boon.
asciilifeform: hmm do i not have it mirrored ?
asciilifeform: gotta fix this, brb
mircea_popescu: im sure eg spyked would love ot give it a gander -- maybe he thereby learns asm and becomes as smart as ave1 for one, and maybe it helps his adalisp for the other. ☟︎
asciilifeform: http://loper-os.org/pub/mu/DERIVE.EXE , http://loper-os.org/pub/mu/mulisp.com << the latter is 'mulisp-87', there is also a '-90' that i was never able to track down.
mircea_popescu: i thought it was 86.
asciilifeform: have that 1 somewhere also, but will have to be pulled from optical disk if someone wants it specifically
mircea_popescu: so there's actually 3 ? ha.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sadly 'mu' aint all that helpful for writing a hand-carved lisp -- it's in 16bit asm and has the segmentation bullshit intimately baked into it
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: at least 4, there was a '-83' also
asciilifeform: ( this one also existed for cp/m and z80 )
mircea_popescu: was the 90s thing that mulisp-xt or w/e, on the palm ?
asciilifeform: i dunno re palm, but there was (and remains sold!) a 68k thing that runs on the ti calculator
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-13#1272527 << subj ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-09-13 08:26 BingoBoingo: Oh, TI-92 arrived yesterday. Much larger than I imagined
mircea_popescu: hp made this tiny, "can't decide if laptop or pocket calculartor" item\
mircea_popescu: and the derive people announced it has a lisp also.
BingoBoingo: AHA
asciilifeform: hp-200lx
asciilifeform: i have 1
asciilifeform: it's an ordinary dos box, with the dos in rom
mircea_popescu: https://www.cbronline.com/news/soft_warehouse_says_mulisp_90_is_up_on_h_ps_95lx_palmtop/ <<
asciilifeform: runs 'derive' just fine if you write it to the sram
asciilifeform: 95lx was the 1st model of same
mircea_popescu: so is this the mulisp 90 then ?
asciilifeform: i haven't yet encountered a version with 'derive' in the rom out of the box, but entirely possib that they sold one
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the ver of derive.exe that i have, has the runtime from -87 baked in
asciilifeform: i vaguely recall seeing one somewhere with a '-90', but possibly memory fails me or i dreamed it.
mircea_popescu: hm.
asciilifeform: (aficionados - plox to write in if find this)
mircea_popescu: "DERMATOL está programado en muLISP-90 Version 7.00 (03/06/91) para IBM . PC MS-DOS de Soft Warehouse, Inc. Las funciones están definidas en base a la estructura y algoritmo de la red neuronal ." << no, item evidently DID exist.
asciilifeform: quite interesting item, btw, e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-24#1606321 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-24 01:51 asciilifeform: i'll point out that mulisp (47kB) included bignum (again, in asm)
asciilifeform: i'ma de-pdfize the 1 and only piece of archaeology known to have been written on subj , http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-07#1265693 , brb ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-09-07 21:39 ascii_field: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel http://www.sigsam.org/bulletin/articles/178/stoutemyer.pdf << some actual implementation details re: 'derive' & 'mulisp'
asciilifeform: (orig link , unsurprisingly, dead )
mircea_popescu: you know ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892248 << wtf is a walterschen.de ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-04 12:56 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892217 <-- for some reason, I took zenofeller to be a proto-trilema. I archived some of the posts, I think some of them can still be dug via archive.org
mircea_popescu: https://web.archive.org/web/*/zenofeller << /me went an' searched ☟︎
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/stoutemyer/index.html << for the l0gz, and for all 'derive' aficionados.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform re report, ima put in the amateurships yea
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: apparently i looked for '90' prior, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-25#1606671 , never found. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-25 17:57 asciilifeform: unrelatedly, if phf or anybody else has a copy of mulisp-90, plz to post.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892255 << and besides, has book references. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-04 16:12 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892248 << 1st i hear of the name, seems to be at least coupla diff people. tho dug up a https://archive.is/WnZJY , which reads almost trilema-like...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you think $item is at level of 'amateurship', dun put in
mircea_popescu: no no not what i meant
mircea_popescu: the amateurship ~lulz~, ie, look what we discovered and how usgtards ended up renamed.
asciilifeform: aa a.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ftr i quite like the ancient pre-trilema, if you still have whole thing somewhere would be pretty great to read it off proper www, rather than usg's archive
hanbot: spyked: (snip) <-- for some reason, I took zenofeller to be a proto-trilema. I archived some of the posts, I think some of them can still be dug via archive.org << oh sweet, i'ma happily wade knee-deep in these again awhile.
mircea_popescu: lmao. back when hanbot was chitlins and things ?
hanbot: practically miniature
asciilifeform: back when asciilifeform was spending his days putting robot arm through glass doors etc ☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it grew to at some point include a forum also, and i put a buncha cr pics from first trip there, which was teh ~only reason i considered over the years digging up archives, but was too lazy.
asciilifeform: i dun imagine the colibri & ocelots changed much since then
mircea_popescu: imagine you, they have!
mircea_popescu: there's this place we visited then, that can not be found now anymore.
mircea_popescu: though perhaps there's a lead.
asciilifeform: a in ~that~ way , heh
mircea_popescu: though in fairness, current crop entirely unsurpassed. much better camera, much better operator, mo' money...
mircea_popescu: kinda goes for the whole thing, tbh.
asciilifeform: perhaps swallowed by later material, but imho still pretty great read.
asciilifeform: i like the formatting also.
asciilifeform: very al-schwartz-ian formatting.
mircea_popescu: actually rather evident http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-04#1839388 calc. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-04 13:57 mircea_popescu: exactly the same substance as the "artwork" basis of http://maddox.xmission.com/irule_.html
asciilifeform: to round off stoutemyer item , http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/kXgko/?raw=true << ocr txt from same.
asciilifeform: 'Implementing muLisp for the Intel 8086 was more challenging because the 1-megabyte address space was segmented into 64-kilobyte segments. The MS-DOS operating system reserved 360 kilobytes of that address space for its purposes, leaving 640 kilobytes for implementing and using muLisp. Awkward segmented architecture is becoming less common as memory costs decline. However, techniques for overcoming the limitations of short pointers a
asciilifeform: re still relevant for implementing linked programs and data compactly....'
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892055 << entirely sensible to rerun, sounds good. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-03 17:24 diana_coman: trinque, it's possibly best to run your latest script and then hand over everything you need, fresh and clear? not a big issue otherwise to rummage and pack that dir but I don't even recall if I did not touch it further after that point when I sent the genesis patch so I'd rather not introduce artefacts
hanbot: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892053 << there's an hp clunker willing to guineapig, but it's an i686, will that do? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-03 17:20 mircea_popescu: hanbot pick a laptop, bake the man's cuntoo. (principal issue, that gentoo->cuntoo "bridge", see if his sig matches).
mircea_popescu: can't see why not. ☟︎
hanbot: kk. scheduled for tomorrow evening.
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/02/pantsuit-government-in-virginia-getting-boiled-by-national-pantsuits-over-having-once-been-young/ << Qntra -- Pantsuit Government In Virginia Getting Boiled By National Pantsuits Over Having Once Been Young
asciilifeform was aboutta say 'hah, i threw out my last i686' but turns out nope, here's 1 runnin' still
asciilifeform: re ancient-mircea_popescu thrd : https://archive.is/pMyw2 << also pretty interesting.
feedbot: http://bimbo.club/2019/02/in-memoriam-giuseppe/ << Bimbo.Club -- In memoriam Giuseppe
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not like the femstate's bankruptcy were discovered last tuesday.
mircea_popescu: http://www.notmilk.com/ however no longer in business, apparently.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not noose, but i simply like the flavour. just read 'guide to psychopathic rape', for instance, a+++
mircea_popescu: i guess ima put this in the report, "lost cto to binge reading ancient html site" ☟︎
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform: i managed to fit it into timeslot of a meat chore, ftr!111
mircea_popescu: win-win as they say.
asciilifeform: yea tending heathens with headset, meanwhile primordial trilema..
mircea_popescu: must actually be a pretty grand experience.
asciilifeform: it is, highly a++ recc'd to anybody who still finds himself tending heathens
asciilifeform: in other lulz, swampistan went from -16 to +16 c in <day .
mircea_popescu: global warming.
asciilifeform: global worming.
mircea_popescu: btw, how's global warming been faring with the mini freeze they got last week ?
asciilifeform: iirc it got renamed to 'climate instability', nao airtight
mircea_popescu: keks.
mircea_popescu: CRUSADE AGAINST BROWNIAN MOTION!!!!
mircea_popescu: because ultimately... leads to instability.
mircea_popescu: if everything were painted-on fixed, even women could be engineers. and immigrants.
asciilifeform: they oughta try mars, i hear pretty stable.
mircea_popescu: i must say, it's pretty weird to read 13year old stuff and not find something to object to.
asciilifeform also liked https://archive.is/B9jL1 , with the heat engine.
asciilifeform: 'They're sucking the blood out of the fiction, at 3$ an hour, and there wasn't enough fiction to go around to begin with. And since you are paying today for tomorrow's fiction, darn straight you want your rightful slice of it. '
mircea_popescu: not even that bad, huh.
mircea_popescu: "You will lose the right to bear arms, not because they hate you, but because you aren't worth it, and you will lose the right to speak freely, not because they're affraid of it, but because you wouldn't know what to do with it if you had it. "
mircea_popescu: and all that.
asciilifeform: !#s debeaking
a111: 6 results for "debeaking", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=debeaking
asciilifeform: ^ see also.
asciilifeform: but mircea_popescu had these ultra-compact pieces that i suspect would penetrate the biofilm of all sortsa thick heathens today, if they were still on the main pg
mircea_popescu: feel free to quote it at them, why not.
asciilifeform: sad thing is that most of'em never got snapshotted.
asciilifeform: i found a handful of random.
mircea_popescu: how do you figure ?
asciilifeform: most of the a.org links lead to null
mircea_popescu: hm
mircea_popescu: and then if i were to leak eg http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Se2eN/?raw=true ie, historical forum bits of travels ~as thery happened~ alf's gonna also want that and so on.
asciilifeform: i'ma deliberately not eat moar until i catch up with chores this wk, but otherwise yes
mircea_popescu: and then when he gets to romanian he's gonna want fain backups, and conceivably, wtf was http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22dtng%22 and also, that one time when i sat down to read my collection of pif, what was in those large year-bound things, and could i perhaps dig up the "casino" roulette thing i made by hand to get all the other kids's turbo chewing gum "surprise" dollars, dms an' turk lyrasi
mircea_popescu: and so on. wtf, i can't dedicate my life to documenting my past life because then who's gonna produce the future.
asciilifeform: i'ma eat these if/when mircea_popescu bothers to dig'em up.
mircea_popescu: well, let's put it this way : no later than at the chestnut tree cafe i shall.
asciilifeform: lolk
hanbot: inb4 this becomes the "whisperers" thread all over again
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform: i dun presume that errybody oughta burn cycles to post erry possible oldies. but mircea_popescu's i simply happen to like.
mircea_popescu: hahaha there's some of that isn't there.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes but what if there's some secret sauce in there!
asciilifeform: presumably not so seekrit that it being perma-hosted by usg loc blows it
asciilifeform: but whichever, post, or not, as feel like, how else.
asciilifeform bbl,meat
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892287 <-- yes pl0x, it would be much help. my biggest issue atm is having to do manual greps after <link rel="pingback" href="..." />, haven't been able yet to get something reliable that doesn't require parsing html ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-04 16:48 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892244 << manual how ? i have a script somewhere doing it for trilema, want me to dig it out ?
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892289 <-- post updated with some more context re. lisp blogotron http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/082-tmsr-schedule-i.html#selection-177.0-179.1 the scope might still prolly not be 100% clear, it seems to require a separate post ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-04 16:49 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892247 << see how comms trip you up ? had you ~said~ this much i'd have said very different things, because i entirely don't see the problem with a cl blogotron.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892345 <-- neato! I'll give this a reread myself ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-04 17:11 mircea_popescu: https://web.archive.org/web/*/zenofeller << /me went an' searched
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892309 <-- funfact: /me reads plenty of asm on his saecular assignments, mostly to maintain & debug shit software stacks that crash in weird ways. haven't written any asm in a while tho, and dos asm especially has been a challenge last time I looked at it ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-04 16:59 mircea_popescu: im sure eg spyked would love ot give it a gander -- maybe he thereby learns asm and becomes as smart as ave1 for one, and maybe it helps his adalisp for the other.
spyked bbl, sleep
mircea_popescu: spyked http://trilema.com/2015/how-to-fix-your-local-trackbacks/ << turns out i already had. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: "most people, when faced with a problem, will not investigate the cause of the problem, but will instead want to solve it because the problem is actually in the way of something more important than figuring out why something suddenly got in their way out of nowhere. if you are a programmer, you may reach for perl at this point, and perl can remove your problem. happy, you go on, but find another problem blocking your way, r ☟︎
mircea_popescu: equiring more perl -- the perl programmer who veers off the road into the forest will get out of his car and cut down each and every tree that blocks his progress, then drive a few meters and repeat the whole process. whether he gets where he wanted to go or not is immaterial -- a perl programmer will happily keep moving forward and look busy. getting a perl programmer back on the road is a managerial responsibility, and it ☟︎
mircea_popescu: can be very hard: the perl programmer is very good at solving his own problems and assure you that he's on the right track -- he looks like any other programmer who is stuck, and this happens to all of us, but the perl programmer is very different in one crucial capacity: the tool is causing the problems, and unlike other programmers who discover the cause of the problem sooner or later and try something else, perl is reward
mircea_popescu: ing the programmer with a very strong sense of control and accomplishment that a perl programmer does _not_ try something else."
mircea_popescu: this is remarkably fucking true about, you've guessed it, ~social media~.
mircea_popescu: much unlike naggum's mythical perl, doods sit around doing nothing all day with their reward circuitry so blownout, they literally fail to understand that no, "your message was too long" is an inacceptable reaction to the situation where "my phone is uselessly broken" ☟︎☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: hence,
mircea_popescu: "a person's behavior is shaped by the rewards and the punishment he has received while not thinking about his own actions. few people habitually engage in the introspection necessary to break out of this "social programming" or decide to ignore the signals that other people send them, so this is a powerful mechanism for programming the unthinking masses. rewarding idiotic behavior and punishing smart behavior effectively bra
mircea_popescu: inwashes people, destroying their value systems and their trust in their own understanding and appreciation of the world they live in, but if you're very good at it, you can create a new world for them in which all of this makes sense.
mircea_popescu: "
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892453 << today 'mythical', but in '98 or when it was he wrote , was in fact troo specifically starring perl. (today other crapola, and moar fragmented so not immediately pointable to as 'hey, perl' ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-04 22:13 mircea_popescu: much unlike naggum's mythical perl, doods sit around doing nothing all day with their reward circuitry so blownout, they literally fail to understand that no, "your message was too long" is an inacceptable reaction to the situation where "my phone is uselessly broken"
mircea_popescu: myeah.
asciilifeform at one pt actually ~was~ 1 of the people naggum wrote about, who 'reached for perl like goebbels for pistol when heard word 'culture'' . then one day realized what it was doing to his brain and ~quit~ , like BingoBoingo quit drink, and never touched since
asciilifeform: i dunno whether organism ever fully recovers from perl. but been 'dry' for decade nao...
mircea_popescu: is perl here distinct from bash ?
asciilifeform: only in same way as whiskey distinct from beer
asciilifeform: 'get to rock bottom' faster.
asciilifeform: arguably there was 'perlism' prior to perl, just as there was surely alcoholism prior to cheap gin.
asciilifeform: but quite diff scale.
mircea_popescu: except i don't drink beer, but drink spirits. not whiskey, nor any other stoolbrandy, but nevertheless.
asciilifeform: rright but you dun do it as central focus of all life.
mircea_popescu: what about http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-29#1890575 ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-29 17:34 asciilifeform: comments ( grep -P '^\s*--' ) turn out to be 1835 ln in libffa and 390 in ffacalc.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i also drink spirits, note.
asciilifeform: occasionally.
asciilifeform: and bash.
mircea_popescu: this "structured data" argument is good enough in the general, but consider what it'd have cost you to actually have all that pre-structured, rather than bash-prototype
asciilifeform: i even own a vise-grip.
asciilifeform: 'the wrong tool for erry job'(tm)(r)
mircea_popescu: "i can't do any ffa work because i'm working on a manner in which to do it that wouldn't produce the idle inquiry of loc 6 months in"
asciilifeform: but erry so often, you gotta.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's the perfect tool for ONE job, as my recent header illustrates.
mircea_popescu: it will pinch girly skin most painfully.
asciilifeform: also unlike e.g. rms, asciilifeform even washes, even tho washing dun even directly bake any ffa...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in asciilifeform's planet vise-grip is used for exactly 1 thing ( when working on ancient auto engine, to clamp the old dead hood lift piston in place... )
asciilifeform: i suspect errybody else also has 'that 1 use..'
mircea_popescu: no wonder it sunk.
mircea_popescu: im telling you, it's for augmented pinching
asciilifeform: i thought that's what haemostat is for!111
asciilifeform: ( dun errybody own bag of classic surgical toolz ?? )
mircea_popescu: no way, you're liable to tear skin with that thing.
mircea_popescu: vise grip, nice square cm flat surfaces.
asciilifeform: you dun have those rubber-coated haemostats ?
asciilifeform: ( they come in 9000 variant )
asciilifeform: hm where was that mircea_popescu piece re the magick furniture.. ☟︎
asciilifeform: it was 'put to yourself the question' but in ro iirc
asciilifeform: about ideal objects
asciilifeform: was in the http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-02#1260148 flavour ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-09-02 22:09 mircea_popescu: there is clearly a problem here. ideal objects (such as software) are not comensurate with physical objects. this attempt to "engineer programs like screws" was a reasonable first hack at the novel an dunexpected problem,
asciilifeform: grr can't find in o(1). but the unifying thread is, when tools of the 'soft' variety appears, all sortsa folx, not even necessarily stupid, became afflicted with the erroneous notion that they have '0 cost' because coad dun have mass and can be cribbed gratis
asciilifeform: very rarely anyone goes 'perl' with actual physical bulldozer as in naggum's gedanken exp because actual bulldozer costs actual dough, and eats fuel which ditto, and produces immediately palpable mess
asciilifeform: but with imaginary bulldozer, many succumbed to 'hey what could it cost'
asciilifeform: ( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-10#1480723 , http://btcbase.org/log/2014-10-10#866949 , elsewhere ) ☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-06-10 21:34 asciilifeform: imagine if programmers actually had to answer for their pollutants.
a111: Logged on 2014-10-10 00:58 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 10k line/250kb limit. if you overrun it you get shot << chuck moore (of 'forth' fame) seems kinda in favour of this. as am i. a kind of 'environmentalism' i've been advocating for many years (intellectual pollution doesn't blacken mere lungs. it makes everybody - stupider. measurably.)
diana_coman: trinque, I'll add it to the list; what should I pack and send exactly, once it's done?
diana_coman will check back on this tomorrow
feedbot: http://bimbo.club/2019/02/a-few-things-to-remember/ << Bimbo.Club -- A few things to remember.
asciilifeform: apropos of nuffin at all, asciilifeform observes that on the street where he lives , + weather inescapably means the background sounds of the day are ~hourly 'ding' of dropped wrenches
asciilifeform: ( ~99% south amer folx here )
asciilifeform: ( on ~actually warm~ day -- wrench ding + samba )
asciilifeform: !!up Would_you_mind_v
deedbot: Would_you_mind_v voiced for 30 minutes.
verisimilitude: I appreciate it.
asciilifeform: !!help
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/help.html
verisimilitude: Alright.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude ^
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Averisimilitude
asciilifeform: trinque: loper-os reader & chronic lurker, seems ready to get in wot
verisimilitude: Alright; my key is registered. I suppose I'll just !!up myself next time, then.
asciilifeform: !!key verisimilitude
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/9E4BBC83BE16BC928638D2D0C0E5AA2256C2126B.asc
asciilifeform: lessee
trinque: verisimilitude: no reason not to give it a go now
verisimilitude: I was told by deedbot I couldn't $up myself.
asciilifeform: !!rate verisimilitude 1 commonlisp & cpu design fella, http://verisimilitudes.net , loper-os reader .
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/uaVpB/?raw=true
asciilifeform: !!v 4D28ECC26EACAD809DB36903FC8222D2E66A8F24E1BF6193B341CBA68723078E
deedbot: asciilifeform rated verisimilitude 1 << commonlisp & cpu design fella, http://verisimilitudes.net , loper-os reader .
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: try nao.
asciilifeform: !!down verisimilitude
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: you can privmsg deedbot nao an' light up on own steam