tmsr - Log 2018-11-16

mircea_popescu: i am not saying very specific applications (such as bitcoin, due to blocks being b locks) can't benefit from purpose made fs. nor am i saying the extant ~fs~ are defensible and not an atrocity against sense and taste.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: doesn't it ever strike you as odd that the machine needs ~2~ journals, 1 on top of other ?

mircea_popescu: however, the db is not at fault for our forebearers being dropped on the head.

asciilifeform: aha!!

mircea_popescu: until anhero comes by with the ~correct~ general purpose fs, mysql-on-ext4 is the way to go.

asciilifeform: asciilifeform's objection is not 'i dun like mircea_popescu's db, it smells of burnt trotyl and tuica' but 'why machine needs TWO?!'

mircea_popescu: cuz we don't have the manpower to write ~general purpose fs~. we don't even have the manpower to write fucking ~narrow purpose fs~, for lack of the manpower to fucking read patches before we mis-add numbers!

asciilifeform: i wrote, fwiw, a nqb 'fs'. but not battlefield-grade yet.

asciilifeform: ( simply cuz not genesis'd yet , needs massage and will have to wait )

asciilifeform: ~O(1) tx load/store.

mircea_popescu: who THE FUCK thought it's ok for the fs to not take arbitrary indices, like, ever, in the whole thirty seconds history of sitting-here-quietly-and-thinking-abnout-computers as it stretches from 1971 onwards. ☟︎

asciilifeform: dumb unix fucks who else

asciilifeform: recall thread, 'you can have 9000 files' etc

mircea_popescu: "oh, cuz then you can't have ACCESS CONTROLS!!!" "oh ?" "so we won't implement those, either" "ah i see. and which is the store where they don't have fish again ?"

asciilifeform: funnily enuff they still have one in timis

asciilifeform: i went 10 times and 0 fish

asciilifeform: just empty tables, buncha weirdos, and pigeons

asciilifeform: devil knows

asciilifeform: nearest fish prolly lives 900km away

asciilifeform: speaking of heathen gnarl, took another look coupla wks ago at 'risc-v' ( e.g. instr set https://archive.is/TfPrq ) and pretty depressing. yes it's the simplest cpu currently targeted by gcc , and somebody even sells iron nao, but still a mess.

asciilifeform: ( attraction is supposed to be 'open standard', 'no royalty', whatever. but still bizarrely imho complex. e.g. variable-length instructions -- wai!?? )

asciilifeform: and buncha crapola -- page table, floating point, etc. that simply dun need to exist.

asciilifeform: 'you bolt shit to side of rifle, still not hit broad side of barn'

asciilifeform brb,meat

mircea_popescu: imo if you're going to use "new processor, cuz simple" it will BETTER not have 1980s imbecile nonsense like "floating point"

asciilifeform: variable-length instructions (a la x86 incidentally) is ~exactly~ unitardism

asciilifeform: i carved out an evening to actually read the standard docs, thinking 'maybe asciilifeform was wrong re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-11#1823089 , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-16#1739675 , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-16#1739666 , etc ' but guess wat. ☝︎☝︎☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-06-11 20:57 asciilifeform: fuck riscv. it was deliberately designed with no arithmetical carry, to cripple cryptography.

a111: Logged on 2017-11-16 17:43 asciilifeform: 'risc-v' is a well-crafted attempt to steal the name, much like gypsies tried to steal even the name of the country they lived in

a111: Logged on 2017-11-16 17:41 asciilifeform: moar concretely they go around propagandizing that if you build a fpga board you gotta use it, because 'mips is patented' ( in what country ? even in usa patent is 25y ) or 'risc-v is simplest' ( uh, nope ) and other idiocy.

asciilifeform: funnily enuff, an almost ~exact opposite~ of asciilifeform's experience in digging up ada ( reputation for gnarl, turns out actually simple & clean 'when used as prescribed' ) , risc-v - reputation for 'simple and clean', turns out ball o' hair

BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> i beleive this Jnrrnnv Ltcmuex, esq shall become a character. << Hey, in a world where only machines can read pdf ocr hell into text, courts have to live with their illegible data writing

asciilifeform: meanwhile, in oddball heathen tech, https://archive.is/p7UYV

asciilifeform never ran into the thing previously , somehow, and then saw and wtf

asciilifeform: tldr : heathen altcoin hash algo which supposedly 'memory hard', but then you look and it only wants 2MB ( and possibly less, with optimizations) -- evidently so that fluffypony or watshisname could use ~his~ seekrit fpga.. ☟︎

asciilifeform: i knew about his lossy signatures nuttery, but not about this, it doubles the lulz

asciilifeform: ( it so happens that asciilifeform knows that fpga with 2MB sram became available just as that thing was written )

asciilifeform suspects that there are other lulz like this to be found in the 'asic resistant alts' circus, but does not actively follow the subj

auctionbot: Sell order # 1007 has ENDED: One lot of 14,500 S.QNTR shares SOLD to diana_coman for 150mn ecu. Attn: BingoBoingo

mircea_popescu: guy seemed like "honest, quiet man", then seemed like obvious expert scammer. because that's the problem with sticking to the "honest quiet man" schtick -- only scammers are actually that. ☟︎

mircea_popescu: ye olde italian "chi non mangia in compagnia o è un ladro, o è una spia" proverb specifically says that the one reason for systematically quiet is affraid-of-own-web-of-lies.

asciilifeform: ohai Mocky , mircea_popescu

asciilifeform: meanwhile, in spam trap, http://bitcoinrabbithole.org/writings << links to heathens ~and~ mircea_popescu , which is atypical

asciilifeform: ohai diana_coman

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-16#1872728 << the only part of the scheme that dun immediately make sense is how he drummed up exchange rate for his lolcoin; i'ma guess it was with the standard 'wash trade' sleight of hand ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-11-16 05:50 mircea_popescu: guy seemed like "honest, quiet man", then seemed like obvious expert scammer. because that's the problem with sticking to the "honest quiet man" schtick -- only scammers are actually that.

asciilifeform: thing also seems to dominate the mining-with-virii niche currently, which is how it came to asciilifeform's attention

asciilifeform: ( presently ~0 winblowz trojans are mining anyffing else )

asciilifeform: Mocky: how is gringostan treating you ? miss the desert yet ?

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: other thing -- i have a vague sympathy for the 'asic-resist' perpetuum-mobile folx; i dun particularly see what's so great about chinese monopoly on mining in classical btc. but it is tempered by the fact that they're some admixture of outright scamola and dumb-as-rocks -- consider, we described a perfectly-usable 'disk-hard' pow algo, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-01#1620665 , and they're still derping with 'ram-har ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-03-01 19:34 asciilifeform: there is no way to practically compute this value without having a copy of the blockchain. and it also ends up being luby-transformable into any one of the 3 old tx if you have the other 2. a kind of perpetual redundancy in the storage .

asciilifeform: d' etc

Mocky: the cold season is a more difficult transition than normal. In a way I sort of do miss the heat.

Mocky: being in qatar where so many things were different.. I never really missed home, but once I got back everything felt so familiar all of a sudden. I don't really know how to explain it.

Mocky: like, "holy shit, chix walking around in yoga pants and short shorts.. how could I have forgotten that these things exist?"

asciilifeform: Mocky: funnily enuff, whenever i go off the reservation, i ~anti~-miss home

asciilifeform: 'grr, time to go back into bigzone'

BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I prefer Bitcoin. GPGgram me a destination for the shares and I will arrange delivery with Jurov. Thank you for your interest in Journalism.

asciilifeform: just once i gotta go to some place that's moar of a shithole than here, just to see what it feels like.

asciilifeform: but it'd prolly have to be in africa, and i'd rather not africa

Mocky: i kind of got used to seeing what few chicks there were draped in black with only eyes showing ☟︎

Mocky: but those who were draped in black, covering the eyes as well with some see-thru black cloth: i never got used to that, always felt disconcerting and I don't know why. not like its that much different

BingoBoingo: <Mocky> like, "holy shit, chix walking around in yoga pants and short shorts.. how could I have forgotten that these things exist?" << It's definitely going to feel weird when I finally pick up an air cooled VW and start driving again

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-15#1872488 << thinking about all this, shouldn't the bot say "i don't know who X is" rather than spit out a pad it knows anyway won't be honored ? ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-11-15 16:40 trinque: if the thing doesn't confirm back to you that the !!pay happened, didn't

Mocky: over there, every day was like a new out-of-comfort-zone experience and all the work involved asking "wtf should I best be doing right now?" It was exciting even though I don't see success along any dimension except personal learning.

mircea_popescu: suppose there's the forum-in-heaven, exactly like this one, but in heaven. every agent (ie, entity capable of self-reflection) has an account in ~that~ wot ; and ultimate-form-mp sits presiding, in its ultimate form of whatever it is, "alien dragon being of pure energy".

mircea_popescu: so they're looking into what qatar's been doing with itself, and the discussion isn't going all that well, at which juncture qatar says "fuck you guise, we were ~at least trying~ and nobody would fucking help!"

mircea_popescu: at which point i say "bullshit!" and if the point's at all contentious i point to you.

mircea_popescu: now, at ~that~ juncture, would you say the matter will be adjudicated as "damn you idiots, qatar tried and nobody fucking helped" or as "damn you qatar, fucking idiot, people tried you just won't fucking listen" ?

mircea_popescu: all success ever is, because of all success EVER COULD POSSIBLY BE, is the reduction of such a case to a specified alternative among the alternatives.

mircea_popescu: it's not fucking "people are impressed". it's always "well, should Y question be raised, z opposition is available to it, and it'll fucking stick". the latter part, that's success.

Mocky: well that's success for you! I was looking for something and turned out either not there or well hidden.

mircea_popescu: so all the mathematicians who prove negatives, such as "there's no circle with square corners" are ultimately failures at mathematicing ? ☟︎

mircea_popescu: "don't come telling me there's no even prime numbers larger than my mother!!! COME BACK WHEN YOU FOUND SOME!!!"

Mocky: I don't feel bad about it, or regret or anything like that. I'm happy with the whole thing. It just doesn't appear to me as success.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you're naive if you think "asic resistant" will break "chinese monopoly". you don't like that, get someone else to make some chips. ☟︎

mircea_popescu: for as long as only slanty eyes has horses, all horse races however drafted will have their fucking horses winning. ☟︎

mircea_popescu: and "disk" is no solution, china owns indonesia notwithstanding hilarity posturing to the contrary. ☟︎

a111: Logged on 2018-11-16 13:55 Mocky: i kind of got used to seeing what few chicks there were draped in black with only eyes showing

mircea_popescu: i believe it's more in the line of seinfeld's "everyone can be great friends if there's no possiblity of sex"

Mocky: well I totally got used to it, except for on sub 5 foot chix... it looks like a halloween costume on a kid and there's no way around it

mircea_popescu: i can't find it now, but im pretty sure i recounted this tale of me + chet climbing in wrong (girls-only) car in cairo subway. made the girls giddy, but the ~dudes~ in the other cars nearly threw a riot.

mircea_popescu: and transparently because while the girls were in that-car-overthere by themselves it was one thing, but once it was with-that-dude suddenly they were forcibly confronted with their own personal failure, and that smells too much like death.

Mocky: I, evidently, sat on a girl bench at a mall that had one girl 30 feet away. was asked to move by security guard who pointed me over to 30 foot bench full of dudes

mircea_popescu: see, the more i hear the more i prefer the egyptians. i took girl to evidently man-only tea-and-shisheria. lotta old dudes looked on in silence, bothered me none.

mircea_popescu: i don't think i appeared ~that~ fierce. i just think they were polite. ~everything i hear of qatar strikes me with an overpowering scent of what in teh old world was called nouveau riche.

Mocky: one beautiful thing I notices was that old busy bodies can't even give you a dirty look when their face has to be covered.

Mocky: not really that often but I was expecting qataris to express a higher level of indignation at foreigners flouting their strict conduct rules. but in actuality not even possible to achieve eye contact

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-16#1872800 << i know quite well that it doesn't, hence 'perpetuum mobile' observation ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-11-16 14:31 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you're naive if you think "asic resistant" will break "chinese monopoly". you don't like that, get someone else to make some chips.

asciilifeform rewinds, eats l0g

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-16#1872781 << imho 'no can haz' proofs are the single most valuable type of result in all of mathematics. they remove (for sane folx, at least, there ~are~ still circle-squarers walking around) dead ends from consideration, save much brain juice for other things that actually yield ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-11-16 14:20 mircea_popescu: so all the mathematicians who prove negatives, such as "there's no circle with square corners" are ultimately failures at mathematicing ?

Mocky: my opinion changed about asians. I chatted with a bunch of actually cute asians. and it wasn't even like, "weeks in this female wasteland and now asians are starting to look good." That was the africans.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-16#1872802 << 'proof of disk' is 'solution' in the sense that the amt of disk required grows 4evah ( just as what we have now in trad btc, except that shitoshi did not see it fit to include block-walks in mining eqn ) . granted it doesn't magic away the 'only asia' thing, nuffin could, as mircea_popescu pointed out in the horse example. may very well transform 'chinese monopoly' to 'korean' ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-11-16 14:32 mircea_popescu: and "disk" is no solution, china owns indonesia notwithstanding hilarity posturing to the contrary.

asciilifeform: the part where it wins is that it actually forces folx to store the blox, rather than 'resist' anyffing.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, tho i was extending the chain of the thread we had re that piece in '17

asciilifeform: recall, with the luby(3 blox) thing

asciilifeform: btw i was going through my ffa notebooks and found a margin note that was actually about this, that prolly oughta go in the l0gz : if yer 'pow' is a walk-through-storage, 1 problem is that initial state of the system gives too little material to walk. so 1 interesting answer might be to include a 'ballast', consisting of, say, the first 9 yrs of classical btc blox, 1...N, that is part of the luby'd set (as raw bytes, rather than as m

asciilifeform: eaningful item)

asciilifeform: this way the miner immediately needs 200GB of random access, to play.

asciilifeform: ( and as side effect helps to cement classical btc history 4evah )

asciilifeform: the ballast could just as readily be FG output, but i like this variant much moar ( and it removes the suspicion that 'they used prng and can trot out the seekrit formula and save 200GB of space in their seekrit miner' etc )

asciilifeform: as for 'resist', the only sense in which it does is that the scheme has very little (tho not zero) reward for custom irons, any storage device that is good for 'proof of blox-on-disk' is also a good general-purpose random access store, and is saleable commodity

asciilifeform: ( even if it is 'custom' in the sense of being a write-once rom . these, too , saleable, i'd buy a whole crate right nao if anybody were selling )

Mocky: so anyway, i would totally do burma. but I have such a mess here of my own making that I couldn't even afford to feed myself burmese rice while there, much less lodging. So what then, go completely on mircea_popescu's dime? is that really desirable?

asciilifeform: Mocky: if it aint mega-seekrit, what precisely was it that happened to you ? house burned down ?

Mocky: I sold my coin for bank-transferolade and I thought I had mitigated the risk but 2 months later transfers got reversed

asciilifeform: i thought hard limit for that was 6weeks or similar?!

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu didja know ??

asciilifeform: loox like ameri-banks are an item exactly like gox nao, 'keep there only what you can afford to lose' ( but i suppose this aint news )

asciilifeform: aa so not traditional bank wire ?

asciilifeform: iirc even paypal has hard limit of 30d for reverse

asciilifeform: ( i could be mistaken )

Mocky: i would have been ok too, I moved the money. wouldn't have cried over a burned bank acct. but after a month I thought I was good

asciilifeform: Mocky: sux

asciilifeform: banks died as a rational concept, we're sorta back to the old days of buried treasure as storage

mircea_popescu: Mocky yeah, back to back like that not really promoting sanity. and besides, all the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-10#1870721 stil lleft to do. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-11-10 20:35 mircea_popescu: get that memory in bit format before it volatiles away.

mircea_popescu: were you trying to not meet people in person or what the fuck was the thinking anyway.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871987 on one hand, where are you again, ct ? can't absorb a piddly coin ? ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 19:19 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you don't understand how useless the anglos are. do you know that in ALL OF CHICAGO 100% of the "bitcoin market" consists of this one inept fed ?

asciilifeform: iirc qatar, with $maxint, also 'could not absorb a piddly coin'

asciilifeform: ( invites the q, of where, exactly, is 'rich' )

BingoBoingo: Uruguay may not be rich enought to eat a whole coin, but seems to reliably deliver 500 USD to any given bench within 1-2 hours of arranging delivery

mircea_popescu: this now begs the questrion whether if i send my valkiries they would somehow manifest liquidity. god knows i had no problem dealing as much as i wanted in buenos aires. nor here. nor apparently anywhere (except when it comes to wiring to bb, which is becoming the lulz of all time, somehow)

asciilifeform: ms excel bug, or wat.

asciilifeform: also i dunget what is the point of 'seekrit charges' etc. already pretty clear that if d00d ever ends up in reich he'll be rolled in bear cage to the national square where drawn and quartered, what 'charges'

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: evidently the paper can be whatever they like, if rng-generated names are apparently ok nao

asciilifeform: why not whole thing from rng.

asciilifeform: 'by order of her majesty clitler, this here mr winston smith is to be delivered to tower and held at the queen's pleasure' etc

asciilifeform: same document will work for assange, for BingoBoingo , asciilifeform , etc., can print a crate of'em, wainot

BingoBoingo: Orc's like paperwork, pageantry, and the impression they are in on a seekrit. All they gotta do is put a gold foil stamp on an envelope containing 'seekrit identity' of Mr Pseudonym and they are prolly riding 90% orc compliance rate.

mircea_popescu: empire is selling orcs the impression "they're in on a secret" ☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: that actually makes sense

asciilifeform: pretty much the only lure the reich has remaining to offer idjits

BingoBoingo: If you can print holographs and swear solemnly to be divulging seekrits, you've done 90%

BingoBoingo: Anyways Dick Cheney can't assume he's not going to be arrested if he goes to certain other countries either.

asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/unicorn-4.jpg << lol there's a 'valve' like that in washington also ( iirc gift from jp in 1930s! )

asciilifeform: i see it erry spring when i go to the sakuras

asciilifeform: ( they -- also in same gift )

asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/unicorn-5.jpg << loox like kerosene lamp!

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what are the oddball protrusions for ?

asciilifeform: ( decorative ? or they have a mechanical function ? )

asciilifeform: elaborate?

BingoBoingo: They provide more paths for the smoke to percolate through the water so it is easier to pull the smoke deep into the lungs

asciilifeform: i didn't think smoked pot burns all that brightly as it goes

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: still reading, lol

asciilifeform: oh oh

asciilifeform: i was speaking of the glass thing

mircea_popescu: anyway, the item is quiote well made. so smoke goes from slider into side of conical shape, towards top. bottom of this conical shape has dozen+ round cylinders which let out into the bottom bowl. this bottom bowl is sealed off from the suction tube atop on the direct path ; the only respondency is through the four bubbles, which have a low and a high feeder and let out smoke into the top suction tube

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you may find it interesting that there's a shop selling items like that thing on ~erry street where i live. and some are quite elaborate, over a metre tall, and clearly hand-made, very ornate. possibly the last major handicraft remaining in this here orcistan.

mircea_popescu: this piece, evidently industrially made ; but i do not regret it, for it has all the advantages that promises (uniformity, solidity, etc). handmade is pretty but fragile, nothing wrong with it but diff class.

asciilifeform luvvvs laboratory glass, at one time had a fairly large collection, prolly enuff to be jailed for 25yr in new york or wherever it was

mircea_popescu believes "handmade" and "art" to be unrelated ; one can have industrial art (such as, eminently, the z80, and such as very much NOT warhola's crapolade)

asciilifeform: verily

asciilifeform: ( i actually have a b00k by orig designer of z80, where he actually walks through the die, transistor by transistor, as if it were picasso ) ☟︎

asciilifeform hopes to live to write a b00k like that ☟︎

asciilifeform: try to picture this for an abomination like intel's

asciilifeform: simply impossible to even contemplate

asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/unicorn-6.jpg << good old thinkpad x40 ?

asciilifeform has owned at various times prolly entire line

asciilifeform: even a coupla from after they turned sad

asciilifeform still has 1 of these

asciilifeform: i watched films on it for yrs

asciilifeform: ( iirc was 1st lappy i ever owned that had enuff horse to reliably play avi )

asciilifeform: oh it was in old times, i did not have external screen then

asciilifeform: so anyffing that actually fit in 1024x768, rendered ok, it was perfect match

asciilifeform: ( and later x60 is pretty much a physically shrunken version of that box, with slightly faster cpu )

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-16#1872832 << btw i enjoyed rereading this ☝︎

asciilifeform: ( incl some of the comments i apparently missed on the 1st coupla passes )

ave1: asciilifeform, Do you have a title or reference for this book? http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-16#1872937 (So far I found Masatoshi Shima as the principal designer, but no book by him yet...) ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-11-16 17:32 asciilifeform: ( i actually have a b00k by orig designer of z80, where he actually walks through the die, transistor by transistor, as if it were picasso )

asciilifeform: ave1: i'ma have to dig and come back to you on that

asciilifeform: presently title escapes me

asciilifeform: ( iirc i read it as a scan, rather than actual b00k )

asciilifeform: how's things otherwise, ave1 ?

ave1: busy these days, I've been looking for a new job (seems to be the theme of this year...)

asciilifeform: neato!

asciilifeform: ave1: c. d. smith, 'the zx spectrum ula: how to design a microcomputer' btw

asciilifeform: and it was moar about the chipset than z80 per se, now that i revisit it

asciilifeform: eh it aint actually that great. turns out was much better in my memory than in life. ☟︎

asciilifeform: but i'd like to write the proper one, lol

asciilifeform: ( about our fyootoor machine, if i live long enuff, rather than z80 )

BingoBoingo: Not everything in print can be Popescu's work on the Urban-Rural dispute or Russel's 'Wasp'

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo apparently fan of efr... pick up any of his other items ?

asciilifeform: https://www.abelard.org/e-f-russell.php << 31337 w4r3z for BingoBoingo

asciilifeform: this also ( read cervantes yet ? )

BingoBoingo has to find where the spanish language print warez lives, what I had ben considering 'general purpose' warez dumps are clogged with translations and adaptations

asciilifeform liked g. g. marquez, and in fact sometimes pictures castle mircea_popescustein sitting in marquezian landscape

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: do they have libraries over in BingoBoingostan ?

asciilifeform: even if not, i saw plenty of quite well stocked oldb00k shops

BingoBoingo: There's the oldbook shops and a couple good streets in the feria. Feria is where I found my copy of the Código de Comercio

BingoBoingo: Like the flea markets back home most of the book tables are clogged with mass market paperbacks and low effort "nonfiction" topic books.

asciilifeform: the street where the flea market ?

BingoBoingo: Well, the market is centered on Tristan Narvaja, but it branches off into themed side streets

BingoBoingo: There's the camera heavy antique street. The kitchenware heave antique street. The book streets. The music cd streets.

BingoBoingo: Get far enough out and it's the Pichis with the week's dumpster finds unwashed in the saddest streets

BingoBoingo: There is a national library and the different Facultads have libraries, but the general "Public Library" as pushed in Anglostan by Carnegie doesn't seem to exist here

asciilifeform: it's pretty much dead in anglostan too ( they've become bum hangouts, with winblowz public toilets where the b00kz used to be )

asciilifeform: i sometimes still go to the local uni lib, but it too is going down this road

asciilifeform: ( already 3 of 8 floors have 0 dead tree )

BingoBoingo: The one in my Hometown still mostly functioned as it did when I was young, save the winblows toilets have even less space assigned to them than they did in the past.

BingoBoingo: Low bum population is a perk of being rural enough the local authorities have to drive the bums 20 miles away to the county lockup

BingoBoingo: Now I'm in the opposite geography. Everywhere rural in the country sends their bums here because "there's shelters"

lobbes: amusingly, few weeks ago I was talking with some bums outside of the $work-tower while smoking. They mentioned they had been bumming rides down from W. Virginia, were headed to... Miami! for the winter

phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-14#1872157 << yeah it's a rook. in my mind it's associated with archives behind castle walls, but it's not particularly correct, since a rook is a siege tower. maybe a bishop would've been a better a choice ☝︎

phf: it lives in the "miscellaneous symbols" block (like the other symbols i use for annotation), which has been in unicode since '93. there are more appropriate symbols in higher planes, but they either don't render, or have forced emoji equivalents, or render differently on different systems, etc. etc.

asciilifeform: phf: it displays ok on my box

asciilifeform gently prods phf re the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-09#1870461 cheops pyramid ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-11-09 18:51 asciilifeform: !Q phf didja ever get chance to unearth the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862616 item ?

phf: asciilifeform: i'll try to do it this weekend, i also have a backlog of vpatches i need to push. my flight is on the 30th and i'm moving out of my current apartment. so things have been busy

asciilifeform: phf: if the thing is a paper scroll etc, feel free to xerox and post it to my postbox if that's easier than scans

asciilifeform: ( addr is in top-left of 1st photo of mircea_popescu's http://trilema.com/2017/fuckgoats-unboxing-of ) ☟︎

asciilifeform: i'm even ok with a roll of b&w fujifilm, if too big for xerox.

asciilifeform: would like to get hands on that thing tho, at some pt

asciilifeform: phf: invoice asciilifeform if it ends up costing sumthing.

phf: i had a point in my head, until i realized that it doesn't resolve to anything concrete when it comes to a pile of IMG_123123.JPG, have to go one by one

asciilifeform: ideally would like errything pertaining to that ic

asciilifeform: and any boards it was featured in

phf: you overestimate the loot :> i have a lot of 3600 shit, but almost nothing on ivory. i have a handful of relevant documents though, that i can needle out

asciilifeform: aite, ty

asciilifeform: 3600 i did not find very interesting, hence why i traded it, lol

phf: given how sparse the materials are, if you're rebuilding the hardware, you might as well start with CADR instead of 3600

asciilifeform: whole point of that particular dig of asciilifeform's, was to see if maybe possible ~not~ to go back to cadr, and maybe we lost only 20 yrs and not 30

asciilifeform: cadr was a horrendous thing because designed around two tonnes of 74xxx

asciilifeform: ( if you were to start today with two tonnes of 74xxx, you would end up with something that looks quite a bit like cadr )

asciilifeform: even ivory had a buncha similar ugly, iirc it still used external weitek thing (same as in yours and mine 486) for arithmetics

asciilifeform: but much less than the old liquishit

asciilifeform: afaik it's the same item

asciilifeform: floating point gizmo

asciilifeform: ( back in the days when cult of 'flops' were going strong... )

asciilifeform: i wouldn't consider ever to put floatism in a new design, but for compat with the vintage soft one would need it ( fortunately unlike 'ivory' the weitek is documented to death, i even have a copy of the datashit from ancient ru stash )

asciilifeform: literally erry other ic on the 'ivory 3' board is stock ( save possibly for a GAL or 2 )

asciilifeform: unlike, e.g., 3620, where i remember no fewer than 9 massive pga things

asciilifeform: ( along with hundreds of PALs and GALs, which ~each~ could take several hrs of probe just to extract the trooftable , plus fucktonne of board track )

phf: oh yeah, i've meditated on this problem (even given that some things, e.g. pal truth tables are available), unfortunately i suspect that ~~everything related to ivory is lost. (possibly the mit guy has a copy, but that's a dead end sealed shut. will have to wait for the estate sale and such)

asciilifeform: waitasec what doc are we then speaking of

asciilifeform: in phf's find

asciilifeform: i thought it was specifically re ivory

phf: ivory is basically part of symbolics's digital age, and i don't know of the existence of e.g. somebody's home folder that you just need to but on the right machine, and you can bring up the "rebuild the ivory from first principles" workspace

asciilifeform: i dun expect that ~this~ exists anywhere outside of indiana jones warehouse, no

asciilifeform: what do you mean? i have the u.s. doe one right here

asciilifeform: just how much moar was in the bolix ?

asciilifeform: the way i understand it, bolix macsyma was largely a free ride on the public dollar one

asciilifeform: ( incidentally just like wolfram's 'mathematica' in the initial versions )

asciilifeform: ( btw mircea_popescu , consider the sheer mindfuck, the 1st and still to date greatest mechanical algebratron was not only written in usg nuke establishment, but ~openly published~ -- very diff people in '70s )

phf: well, symbolics macsyma existed for a decade after the dod one. i've tried a few papers from 80s digests, that had macsyma code in them, and they all assumed symbolics and they all refused to run on maxima (because of missing stuff)

asciilifeform: interesting

asciilifeform: so i guess it's sorta like cadr vs 36xx

asciilifeform: yea that page's been exactly like-that since at least '06 when i 1st saw it

asciilifeform: the disk dun include any sores tho, i checked.

asciilifeform: ~somebody~ -- has. some http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1863759 type. i dun usually believe in 'losts'. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-19 00:51 asciilifeform: 'i'ma sit on this gold' 'why' 'because i am gnome'

asciilifeform: gnomism is almost like an infectious disease. i still can't properly fathom the behaviour of all those folx who had the alpha genera cd for decade+ and didn't put on piratebay.

asciilifeform: it's almost like folx revert to the condition of the alchemists when given half a chance.

asciilifeform: 'pour some mars into the boiling pot of jupiter, and promise not to reveal the seekrit to the profane'

BingoBoingo: gnomes sit on gold because deep down on the inside they want to feel like dragons

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: there's at least a little bit of the healthy dynamic where 'why should i throw the pearls before swine', iirc mircea_popescu expanded on this

BingoBoingo: Never mind that unlike dragons, gnomes are too handicaped to bring results liek dragons. "I R gnome, If I sit on gold liek the dragons do Imma be a dragon too"

asciilifeform: except that one doesn't publish for the swine, you publish for the 3 d00dz who actually have with what to make sense.

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i dun see much diff b/w the bolix gnomes and the 40 y.o. chix who 'waiting for right man' to pop cherry, as pictured also in mircea_popescu's essays

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i suspect there's some http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-16#1872899 in the psycho-mix also ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-11-16 16:41 mircea_popescu: empire is selling orcs the impression "they're in on a secret"

asciilifeform: whichever way -- there's apparently a set of people who find it moar satisfying to sit on a trunk of rotting tapes, than to see the idiocy of computing 1990-present cured

asciilifeform: tlp i suspect has the full dirt re subj. i.e. when you have the trunk, you can carry on thinking yer the 'start of movie', but if sumbody else builds , then somehow 'not star' no moar

asciilifeform: *star of movie

BingoBoingo: Hey, someone could criticize or correct them during the curing. While sitting on the tapes they can dream without confronting anything.

asciilifeform: there's also the 'is it really ~the~ tapes' aspect. as in the old thing with the gold bars that nobody wants to drill for tungsten. consider for instance how nikola tesla was able to live in the waldorf for years, with the loan collateral being a trunk containing 'great invention of much dangerous power'. when died, turned out to contain a whetstone bridge. ☟︎

asciilifeform: ( i do not, tbf, know whether this legend is troo, but given the credulous people of the time and the man's talent for self-pr, i can easily buy it )

asciilifeform: ( and will add, it aint as if today's ameritards are less credulous. simply today better corralled, today's hotel owner will equally idiotically invest in usg bonds, rather than tesla's trunk, is all )

asciilifeform: 'the bezzle' is prolly as old as all of culture.

asciilifeform: phf: the early ver that was actually posted is http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-06#1666647 . however there's a clean/rewritten one, in a 90% state of completion, not yet genesis'd ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-06-06 19:40 asciilifeform: mod6, phf , et al : http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/ada/horsecocks.tar.gz << i dun recall posting this before, so here it will live, for nao : unofficial release of mmaptron

asciilifeform: it is on hold pending resolution of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866266 ( and is taking back seat to ffa currently ) ☝︎☟︎☟︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 02:14 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in gnat bugs : apparently ( and this is documented or mentioned nowhere ) : it is impossible to have a Ada.Finalization.Limited_Controlled type ANYWHERE inside a static library, unless it is generic all the way down (i.e. if the lib package is generic, any sub-packages must also be instantiated as generics )

asciilifeform: phf: the 'horsecocks' one requires pointerism to be enabled; the new one does not ☟︎

phf: ty, i've been using linux in console mode on my rk, so i wanted to write a framebuffer tooling for ada, using your mmap as blueprint (i'm not sure there's much overlap though..)

asciilifeform: ( uses system.address internally to turn yer mmap into a 100% transparent 'as if you had declared it on stack' variable that is backed to/from disk via mmap )

asciilifeform: i expect if you bake sumthing on 'horsecocks', it will be simple to rewrite on new item, will simply shed a few lines of coad

asciilifeform: keep in mind that horsecocks has hardcoded constants in it that may or may not work on arm ( per bvt's dig )

asciilifeform: i'm not sure how one would go about using mmap for frame buffer

asciilifeform: ( would specify the iron address, and run as root ?? )

asciilifeform: if yer running in kernel, you dun need mmap call, you can simply set the address of your array to be the magic iron addr directly

asciilifeform: ok makes sense

asciilifeform: i admit that i've never actually plugged a display into rk

asciilifeform: have nfi how well it worx and what exactly it takes to get a picture

asciilifeform: iirc the display subsystem was never fully reversed yet

asciilifeform: ( or maybe was only the 3d gpu that wasnt, i dun recall )

phf: i meant the asus, i'm running it without X, but i suspect that pretty much standard way of doing gui on a console is via /dev/fb0. rk eventually will give you similar device if everything else is correct

asciilifeform: if you have a working /dev/fb0 you can theoretically have x tho, neh

phf: i've been using the asus as kind of netbook, i'm generally pleased with it *not* having x

asciilifeform: ( if yer writing even so much as a tetris, even on dos box you needed a bit more than simply fb to do it without 'tearing', you need some way to insta-flip the 'pages' , possibly ioctl ? )

asciilifeform: so looking to put colour emacs in there or wat

asciilifeform: why need fb

phf: also graphs, sometimes you just need to throw up the graphics, and i'd rather not do it with c

asciilifeform: fair'nuff

asciilifeform: i'm looking forward to the hero who pulls off a msdos gnat port btw

asciilifeform: ( i deliberately wrote ffa in such a way that it oughta work on under 32bit or even plain 16, supposing somehow enuff ram )

asciilifeform: ( i dun ask that the gnat also ~runs~ under dos, tho that would be 9000x spiffier even . simply ~for~ )

asciilifeform: ( for nitpickers -- 8bit won't work, you cannot represent the ~length~ of a crypto-useful integer in 8 )

asciilifeform: i looked for this wonder, but never found ( and supposing it exists, it is almost certainly the wrong gnat, i want ave1's )

asciilifeform: i use preconditions, for instance, and they only work as written with ada2012

asciilifeform: ( in earlier ada they were quite ugly )

asciilifeform: some of my restrict pragmas are also 2012istic

asciilifeform: ( fwiw i consider 2012 mature, and can't picture why i'd want later ones, unless perhaps fixes serious bugs like http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866266 -- and even ~then~ i'd prefer to backport to ave1istic gnat ) ☝︎

asciilifeform: ffa/p-tron as a dos boot disk would imho rock.

asciilifeform: ( fg on serial port, naturally )

asciilifeform: i/o via the 2nd serial port.

asciilifeform: no disks, whole thing in rom, bahaha.

asciilifeform: i dun particularly see why unix needs to be happening on an airgapped rsa box.