log
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Framedragger: btw maersk (some related ports) is down due to new "ransomware" (orange website says it's the same nsa "eternalblue" windows vuln)
mircea_popescu: not like they were needed anyway!
Framedragger: :p what, the shipping company? ha
mircea_popescu: just chinese crap anyway
Framedragger: healthy perspective to have, i guess
mircea_popescu: apple could buy china!
mircea_popescu: netflix interprets maersk as damaged and just routes around teh censor ships!
mircea_popescu: i got a whole silo fulla these btw, if you need.
Framedragger: i mean, scriba was supposed to have an mp emulator chatbot, so i'll keep it in mind :)
Framedragger: !$talk about "no such thing as too big"
Framedragger: => "from which we surmise you never had sex"
mircea_popescu: lmao
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1675479 << #8======B~~~~~~~~ .☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 23:18 lobbes: "Many folks expect to have some way of viewing and using emojis" heh
asciilifeform: in other, not wholly unrelated, lulz, '...out-of-bounds write in systemd-resolved in Ubuntu, which is possible to trigger with a specially crafted TCP payload. ... Certain sizes passed to dns_packet_new can cause it to allocate a buffer that's too small. A page-aligned number - sizeof(DnsPacket) + sizeof(iphdr) + sizeof(udphdr) will do this... A malicious DNS server can exploit this by responding with a specially crafted TCP payload
asciilifeform: to trick systemd-resolved in to allocating a buffer that's too small, and subsequently write arbitrary data beyond the end of it.'
asciilifeform: ( 'CVE-2017-9445' )
mircea_popescu: heh.
mircea_popescu: "trick"
asciilifeform: and, not wholly unrelatedly, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr0d2eRl2nE .
asciilifeform: 'song of msdos'.
asciilifeform: '... И представил я: / Город наводнился вдруг разумными людьми: / Вышли все под DOS,...'
asciilifeform: ( https://lleo.me/pesni/text/dos.shtml << full text. )
asciilifeform: by the author of, e.g., 'the random number merchant'
asciilifeform: ( http://lleo.me/arhive/2014/prodavec.htm )
asciilifeform: http://lleo.me/arhive/humor/skazki.shtml << d00d's 'fairy tales'.
sina: mornin tmsr
sina: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1675078 << my, I seem to have trouble phrasing my questions correctly :(☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 13:08 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1675077 << there's no intention that there would be plaintext anything, wtf.
sina: mircea_popescu: patience appreciated while I attempt to rephrase question.
sina: in current model, operator can write a message and claim it is from anyone and "publish" it to their own message store. when peers connect, the messages since last seen are delivered, each encrypted with a peer-pair unique RSA key. so as the message "progresses" between peers it gets encrypted, then decrypted and stored in each peers message store in plaintext
sina: what I'm asking is, does that behaviour match the intent? OR
sina: should the operator be encrypting the message for the final recipient and then publishing that ciphertext?
sina: OR, both?
sina: asciilifeform?
asciilifeform: sina: how do the 2 models differ ?
asciilifeform: sina: and what means 'final recipient' ?
Framedragger: intermediary peers won't be able to decrypt message in the latter model, asciilifeform
sina: Framedragger: thanks, exactly what I meant
asciilifeform: Framedragger: in mircea_popescu's gossipd algo, there are 2 types of messages, ordinary and private. the latter behave as described above
asciilifeform: the former - as the 'stored, relayed'.
sina: aha!
Framedragger recalls mircea_popescu's archaic use of "for" in context of gossipd
sina: so the answer is "the program should allow for both behaviours"
sina: ?
asciilifeform: sina: if you're asking re mircea_popescu's algo -- then yes
asciilifeform: i thought this was pretty clear from the article.
sina: asciilifeform: yesterday you mentioned 2 articles, but I had only seen one, if you recall URL can you link second one?
Framedragger: in fact i'd imagine that gossipd should ideally allow for arbitrary end to end encryption, would be up to operator?
asciilifeform: Framedragger: all comms b/w any pair of nodes, properly rsa'd
asciilifeform: no exceptions
Framedragger got confused from article, too (hence not opining re gossipd currently)
Framedragger: asciilifeform: sure, but (plz don't vomit from use of keyword) there should be a way to onion-rsa them, too (A encrypts to C's key, then encrypts to B's key and tells B to relay to C which is currently offline, or w/e)
asciilifeform: 1) original mircea_popescu's algo: http://trilema.com/2015/artifexd-a-better-ircd-rfc 2) the newer: http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document
Framedragger: imho
asciilifeform: Framedragger: you get this 'for free' from the normal relay mechanism
asciilifeform: if you think about it.
Framedragger: god it's like quoting talmud at this point :D (i mean the long comments etc)
Framedragger: right, eternal rsa gen process, rsa'd automatically, etc
sina: asciilifeform: can you clarify, *all* comms? when I was implementing my first pass at encrypting comms yest, I found that at least the very first message when a peer connects as a client would be plaintext, i.e. "hi I'm A", otherwise the "server" would need to enumerate all its keys to find if it knows the peer?
asciilifeform: sina: it enumerates.
sina: ahh
asciilifeform: and in fact goes through ALL OF THEM, to avoid leaking timing.
sina: then is there a need for a challenge at all?
asciilifeform: ( this is not in mircea_popescu's article but is imho elementary. )
Framedragger: in fact that's a question i asked in comments, sina
Framedragger: answer is as asciilifeform said
Framedragger: just fyi
Framedragger: i even raised a (nonsensical) "but-t-t time complexiti!" concern re this
Framedragger: afaict gossipd model assumes that some rsa keys had been exchanged out-of-band. traditional challenge-response has been constantly critiqued by asciilifeform via "it's a DoS vector" argument (sorry if too curt, am in bed)
Framedragger: (which makes sense, hence lighthoused proposal)
asciilifeform: in other mircea_popescuine treats, http://lleo.me/kamasutra/index.htm .
Framedragger: sina: (re. enumerate -- http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/#comment-121604)
asciilifeform: and speaking of which i'ma bbl.
Framedragger too
sina: ok thanks all
sina: this will change my design a little bit
Framedragger: (ah in fact a bit up the stack, http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/#comment-121602)
sina: asciilifeform: yest you said no sessions in gossipd, yet http://trilema.com/2015/artifexd-a-better-ircd-rfc/ clearly describes a session based proto
Framedragger: sina: to clarify (hopefully lol), that ^ is for all intents and purposes outdated. asciilifeform did say "original mp algo". that said, i'll agree if you say "you guys have a documentation problem omg"
Framedragger: (but then, the newer article clearly states "This is an up-to-date draft specification for gossipd", so i'm not too sure about that, either)
Framedragger: sina: fwiw (he can speak for himself but to save you time), asciilifeform does not like sessions [ever|anymore], and considers them ugly beasts which won't have a place in his gossipd bed
sina: appreciated Framedragger
Framedragger: (i know it's a hella lot of comments under the newer article but iirc his "DoS magnet!!" points are addressed there)
sina: I guess I'll wait for some clarification from mircea_popescu ? challenge/response is a session based concept even ignoring the older post
Framedragger: did you read the part about lighthouse based challenge, though?
sina: "To craft a valid packet, a sender must collect a single auth string from the receiving node's lighthouse (via whatever means, can be a shortwave tuner), craft auth with it as described by Mircea Popescu earlier, encipher to receiver's RSA pubkey, and send." ?
sina: that one?
Framedragger: tl;dr asciilifeform described a way for peer A to provide a challenge-response to peer B in a way which would not require any communication from B, hence not creating a DoS vector
Framedragger: yeah, though note that the lighthouse may for all intents be node C there
sina: well, the next line is literally "This variant is not, incidentally, intrinsically incompatible with Mircea Popescu's - conceivably he might choose to hand out auth challenges to all-comers, while I operate lighthouse; while retaining the other basic mechanics."
Framedragger: hmm, right
Framedragger: note the important aspect which lighthouse introduces: constant stream of auth strings, "in all directions"
Framedragger: "in all directions" depends on medium. in radio, it's clear; in packet switched networks, could be a list of broadcast addresses to send auth strings to (constantly), etc
Framedragger: sorry if repeating what you already know
Framedragger: the point is that auth strings are sent regardless of whether the connecting peer (A) wants them
Framedragger: so there's no way to DoS peer B with "hi plox to send me an auth string, i'm totally legit non sybil node"
Framedragger: ("well ok, let me generate this one just for you, and this for just for you", vs. "i'll generate this many auth strings per time unit, and distribute them to this set of destinations (or "shit them out via radio"))
Framedragger: so in that sense it's not your traditional challenge-response. again, sorry if repeating
sina: no apologies necessary
sina: Framedragger: can you bear with me for a few questions or were you going to bbl?
Framedragger: i may fall asleep but shoot
sina: so we have a lighthouse thingo broadcasting some random bytes as challenge strings in plaintext
sina: and nodes are receiving and storing those challenge strings
sina: if I'm operator of peer A and want to send a message to peer B, what do I do? pick one of my stored challenge strings, sign it, send it along with my message?
Framedragger: yes i think so, and note that there is a time window there re. how recent challenge string has to be, to avoid replay. i.e., those strings expire. and yes that's how you send a msg to B iirc
Framedragger: A and B may then decide to enter some different "state" but the general gossipd design is stateless, i.e. there is no session
sina: probably a dumb question
Framedragger: mircea_popescu had concerns re. "signed", but iirc the concept of "station key" (vs. "mega important owner key") helped there. not sure if entirely resolved, tho
sina: but why can't A just sign any random bytes? why does it need to come from the lighthouse?
Framedragger: (btw the challenge strings may be in something else than plaintext, all depends on lighthouse and medium)
Framedragger: i believe this relates to asciilifeform's "traditional challenge-response creates DoS vector". so with a lighthouse auth string, one more important point is that a particular auth string cannot be reused.
sina: oh nevermind, obviously if you sign any random bytes it can be replayed
sina: yeah
Framedragger: yeah, so this avoid replay but also sets a limit to how much DoS exposure you have (one of the limits, at least)
Framedragger: avoids*
Framedragger: well i guess it's the same thing, kinda
sina: another probably dumb question
sina: why not just sign the current UTC timestamp
sina: you can't replay timestamps outside of a certain window +/- 0.5s or something?
Framedragger: because you can predict the future of such a lighthouse, hence craft any number of packets in advance
Framedragger: let me recall why that is super important lol; but the unpredictability of the auth strings coming from lighthouse is important
Framedragger is "recall vs. just think about it" mode
sina: Framedragger: really appreciate your patience, I get the feeling asciilifeform would be shouting at me again by now
Framedragger: nah folks are just busy
Framedragger: i guess he'd say "read the article [implying read the comments, too]"
sina: I'm not sure I understand how you can craft packets in advance if they need to be signed
Framedragger: hold on, you're right
Framedragger reading how asciilifeform described the packets, if at all, because forgot
sina: also I can't see how the model can be *completely* stateless, there will always be some kind of minimal session which is "hi, I'm A" followed by a response tailored to A
sina: unless all responses are identical for all peers, which would make them plaintext
mircea_popescu: well now ima have to read this whole thang
Framedragger: sina: right, re future, i didn't make sense there
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-28#1675514 << yes.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 01:19 sina: in current model, operator can write a message and claim it is from anyone and "publish" it to their own message store. when peers connect, the messages since last seen are delivered, each encrypted with a peer-pair unique RSA key. so as the message "progresses" between peers it gets encrypted, then decrypted and stored in each peers message store in plaintext
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-28#1675543 << yes, server looks through its keys.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 01:28 sina: asciilifeform: can you clarify, *all* comms? when I was implementing my first pass at encrypting comms yest, I found that at least the very first message when a peer connects as a client would be plaintext, i.e. "hi I'm A", otherwise the "server" would need to enumerate all its keys to find if it knows the peer?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-28#1675565 << the problem with the concept of a "session" is that it attempts to link machine state to world state. this is a very tenuous proposition, and the fundamental reason why sessionificatyion of (the correctly designed) stateless http protocol failed for 30 years straight and will continue to fail forever.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 01:45 Framedragger: sina: fwiw (he can speak for himself but to save you time), asciilifeform does not like sessions [ever|anymore], and considers them ugly beasts which won't have a place in his gossipd bed
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: i fucking can't reckon right now why output of lighthouse has to be unpredictable. damn it :D *if* all packets are signed with peer keys that receiving peer already has, timestamp with defined validity window would avoid replay... (http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/#comment-119045)
mircea_popescu: you know, the lighthouse idea, while an idea, didn't actually get included.
mircea_popescu: prolly should separate the re-discussing of that from the guy trying to comprehend the spec
Framedragger: situation is different if the point is for peer A to newly introduce self to B. then (sina) "unpredictable lighthouse" is important because it sets a limit to how many auth strings can be used.
mircea_popescu: no peers introduce themselves though. at all.
Framedragger: (in fact maybe that's an important point as well: lighthouse shits at a fixed rate; there is a discrete amount of auth strings which can be used. i guess this is obvious, i'm slow)
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: right
mircea_popescu: the only way for A and B to be introduced, outside of the grandfatherly, A fucks B and they exchange bits of paper, is C tells A about B and B about A.
Framedragger: aha.
mircea_popescu: there's no peer discovery as a gossipd function ; at all times it knows already all the peers it will ever know. in lawyer speak this is called "never ask a question you don't know the answer to."
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: yeah lighthouse discussion does complicate matters, the fact of the matter is, it's the only current (written) alternative to DoS-prone traditional challenge-response (A asks B to plz send challenge, A then response to B with that challenge), within gossipd universe
Framedragger: right
Framedragger: also lighthouse concept didn't get properly included in spec because it's probably not yet finished, ha
mircea_popescu: possibly.
Framedragger: "Re 119 : You'll have to properly spec this if you want it." (you said it!)
sina: mircea_popescu: while I appreciate the validty of issues about sessions, challenge/response dictates there must be something akin to a session, even if that isn't the most precisely fitting term
mircea_popescu: a
mircea_popescu: sina what challenge response ?
mircea_popescu: let's go through the process in detail.
sina: pls
mircea_popescu: at t0, A encrypts plaintext P to key B1.
mircea_popescu: at t1, A remits P.B1 to B.
mircea_popescu: at t2, B is free to decrypt or not decrypt P.B1. it is supposed to make this decision on the basis of B1 and whatever other data it uses to make such a decision.
mircea_popescu: at t3, providing B has opted to decrypt P.B1, it is in possession of P. if P is a standard message, it contains a reference allowing it to respond.
mircea_popescu: if the operator of B opts to respond, at t4 A will receive a P'.Ai
asciilifeform: Framedragger: recall, mircea_popescu and asciilifeform never came to a 'hey we have this 1 algo', so all q re 'gossipd' presume, imho, mircea_popescu's algo, which was actually called so
mircea_popescu: if the operator of B opts to relay, at t5 various nodes will receive a P.?j
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exactly. nmot that i'm against further exploring the lighthouse thing, but gotta be separate item for nao.
mircea_popescu: sina so where's a session in there ?
asciilifeform: and it was different from asciilifeform's, and did not include 'lighthouses', luby transform, a few elses
sina: "a reference allowing it to respond." << is that not a session concept?
mircea_popescu: sina i imagine it's a keyid of some kind. that makes a session ?
sina: mircea_popescu: I assume A generated that reference, and it is storing it until B has responded?
Framedragger: asciilifeform: ah, then i confused things by way of saying that "challenge-response needs to be ditched in gossipd model". hmm. i did think that the two items are not conceptually separable anymore
mircea_popescu: sina all keys are stored forever.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: gotta distinguish mircea_popescu's algo from the MB or so of asciilifeform's commentz re same
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: well you did say "whenever operator feels like it, keys get nuked." (i guess that's not the same, tho)
sina: mircea_popescu: ok that makes sense, you should consider updating the blogpost :P
mircea_popescu: Framedragger that is what "forever" means to machines.
sina: because the blogpost has a challenge/response thingo
mircea_popescu: link me ?
sina: http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/ III. Gossipd will receive inbound connectionsvii from identified clientsviii and on the basis of that identification produce an encrypted challenge string, which constitutes its response. If the other party responds with the proper challenge string, the connection is established ; otherwise it is dropped.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform, some yrs before being introduced to mircea_popescu, wrote an (unpublished) algo, 'kapelle', that resembled mircea_popescu's gossipd. hence 'strong feelingz'
mircea_popescu: sina yeah that's amply misleading.
sina: haha
sina: this clarification is much appreciated, I do think I can rework what I've got to fit the above model
Framedragger: CONFUSE THE ENEMY
mircea_popescu: the idea was to report to the operator, "We have link with x". but conceptually, sessions as a fundamental building block of comms, are not used.
asciilifeform: (had slightly different domain: botnet orbital control...)
mircea_popescu: there's a difference between my client showing alf as "online" and my client being built on the concept of sessions.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: i never got to comandeer one from irc channel, am sad
asciilifeform: Framedragger: it 'gets old' quickly
sina: alright
sina: thankyall
sina: time for some food and stuffs, I will spend time later trying to implement this
asciilifeform: think of 'we have link' as if with, e.g, satellite
Framedragger: i'm in fact curious why in your model lighthouse has to be unpredictable, asciilifeform. maybe it's something very obvious
asciilifeform: i.e. when was last time of contact
sina: oh yeah, while we have you alf, can you answer above? why is lighthouse necessary if A can just sign current timestamp and B only accept timestamps within a small variance window?
asciilifeform: Framedragger: because not signing but decrypting
asciilifeform: think.
sina: o
sina: wait
asciilifeform: ( why does deedbot cookie gotta be random! )
Framedragger: yeah this is too densely compressed
sina: asciilifeform: if the challenges are being broadcast by the lighthouse in the clear, and all the peers are storing N of them, can't evilguy X just encrypt all of them?
sina: and send them at will?
Framedragger: i assumed that packets were signed by A
sina: yeah
asciilifeform: whereas in 'sign lighthouse' model, also gotta be unpredictable, but to prevent replay
asciilifeform: without having to store anything
sina: you can prevent replay by signing a timestamp and accepting only "current" timestamp within a window of +/- 0.X seconds?
asciilifeform: i.e. a signed(S) could not have practically come into existence before you broadcast S, if the latter is a long rng turd
asciilifeform: sina: didja read the clocks thread ?
sina: obvously not
asciilifeform: we don't ntp
sina: fair
asciilifeform: and disbelieve in the possibility of accurate synced clocks.
sina: tmsr is a weird place
asciilifeform: ( sans ntp and similar imperial shenanigans )
asciilifeform: ntp requires a hitler.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: but the main work by the receiving peer is in checking the signature of the other peer anyway (besides decrypting the message itself), no?
Framedragger: question is about unpredictability anyway
Framedragger: so more general
sina: <+asciilifeform> Framedragger: because not signing but decrypting << I am not sure I understand this. Why is it decrypting? Considering everyone has the plaintext from broadcasts
Framedragger: and if the main work is in checking signature, how does a "could not have practically come into existence before you broadcast S" help with regards to DoS?
asciilifeform: sina: say i take random string R and encrypt to pubkeys p1, p2,...,pN
Framedragger: if incoming message is *not signed*, then i understand - it sets a fixed horizon in terms of how much you can spam.
sina: anyway, I guess this is a seperate question for smarter people, I will just stick to trying to update my thingo to match mircea_popescu description above
sina: must food
asciilifeform: sina: to get a window to speak to me, you come back with the plaintext of a recent R. proving that you are one of p1,...pN.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: ah, damn. is the point to prove to B that A holds A's key at time t? i feel dumb
asciilifeform: aaaha
Framedragger: lol, umm, "duh", thanks for bearing
asciilifeform: dun worry Framedragger , it does take some actual sweat, to puzzle out
asciilifeform: but asciilifeform is happy to give a hand.
Framedragger: sina: point was to prove continued identity of A, continued ownership of A's private key, so to speak.
Framedragger appreciates
Framedragger and goes to sleep
asciilifeform: ('come back with the plaintext' of course means that you, e.g,, gimme a hash H(R + salt), or the like, not literally exposing it for world!)
asciilifeform: goodnight Framedragger
asciilifeform: btw note that 'decrypt mode lighthouse' is deedbot-like, the answerer proves that he holds one of p1,...,pN keys. rather than one in particular.
asciilifeform: without distributing signed material.
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: this btw is also a major feature of mircea_popescu's (non-lighthousetronic) algo, and imho important
mircea_popescu: the problem with it, once ammended for the sign issue, was not exactly technical, more in terms of how expensiuve it is
mircea_popescu: not "it won't work" but rather "will it be worth working"
asciilifeform: it can be as expensive ( broadcast to galaxy! ) or cheap ( request a turd in web form, which actually reduces to approx. mircea_popescu's original..! ) as desired.
asciilifeform: smoothly.
mircea_popescu: conceivably.
asciilifeform: i imagine most stations would do something in between.
asciilifeform: ( homework: calculate packet shitting rate necessary to hit every ipv4 at least weekly )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-28#1675603 << because this imports GPS into gossipd, or most of gossipd history will not contain GPS or anything like it.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 02:04 sina: you can't replay timestamps outside of a certain window +/- 0.5s or something?
sina: the weather is shit so I am just going to order a pizza and sit in the dark
mircea_popescu: enjoy ?
sina: :D
sina: oh yeah. I'm actually on holidays from work this week, that is why I'm around hassling y'all at all hours
mircea_popescu: hey, i like it.
asciilifeform: sina: think also through the implications of 'no clock'. suddenly, chronological ordering is nontrivial.
sina: asciilifeform: chronological ordering of messages?
asciilifeform: ('timestamp' has no factual meaning outside of hardware on your desk. and even there - 'fuzzy')
asciilifeform: sina: aha, what-happened-before-whatelse
sina: yeah, per the spec, peers are only storing messages with local timestamp they received them
mircea_popescu: yes, witness-time
sina: ordering/conflict resolution is left up to the operator
mircea_popescu: einstein'd be proud
asciilifeform: sina: point being, you cannot rely on timestamps of any form to distinguish old packets from new and filter replays
mircea_popescu: notice how it's not even POSSIBLE for the "same" message to be delivered via gossipd. for purely quantic reasons.
asciilifeform: aha.
asciilifeform: sina: i recommend to also review logs re 'protocolic vs promisetronic' concept
asciilifeform: then when i say 'timestamps not produced by yourself are promisetronic' it will immediately click in your brain.
mircea_popescu: this is the root of the divergence so far, so not a bad reference. encountering a problem, sina tends to seek the "correct" dependency to bake in.
sina addes to notes
mircea_popescu: as a matter of habit.
mircea_popescu: this is very much not what tmsr ever does.
sina: s/correct/desired/ pls
mircea_popescu: ideal ? community-approved ? you name it.
sina: yeah
sina: is it bad?
mircea_popescu: it's different.
mircea_popescu: it can work, depending, but it doesn't work by itself, it has to be a very strictly examioned thing.
asciilifeform: there was an old sf tale, maybe 1940s, about a d00d in the Evil Future who is sentenced to death , but 'in house arrest', is put in a seemingly normal flat where common household objects are boobytrapped
sina: I mean I *can* go off and do my own thing, but then I am making a sinathing not a tmsrthing
asciilifeform: with proviso that if he lives for a week, he gets reprieved
asciilifeform: this is roughly analogous situation to the daily life of tmsr software folx
sina: does he in an explosion of shit as he sits on the toilet?
mircea_popescu: sina the problem with the non-tmsr things is that they are undependable. in the complete sense of that term : temporally, functionally, you name it.
asciilifeform: sina: dies when 'reprieved' and turns door knob to leave, forgetting all caution: poisoned
sina: the future is not all bad. I order pizza and can see its current progress in the store and GPS tells me its location en route
asciilifeform: ( spoiler!!!1 )
sina: asciilifeform: haha
mircea_popescu: sina do you see how this is an extra cost, not an added benefit ?
mircea_popescu: my pizza just takes the my saying "yo, make pizza!"
sina: mircea_popescu: my perspective is that I am just trying to implement what appears to be an interesting spec. for the reason of being interested in implementing that spec. so when I ask for tmsrthing clarification, it is just in terms of spec, not in terms of "making a thing" ...if that makes sense
mircea_popescu: sure.
sina: Mircea Popescu: Pizza Whisperer
mircea_popescu: lel
mircea_popescu: but, and here's the beauty, for the same money today had salmon.
sina: the pizza doesn't even exist, you just say "yo, make pizza" and flour assembles itself into dough, tomatos become paste, basil grinds itself
mircea_popescu: slavegirls!
sina: we aren't all rich Romanians with slavegirls ok
mircea_popescu: aite, watch teh gps like it means something then!!!
mircea_popescu: BEOTCH
sina: haha
mircea_popescu: mwahahahaha
mircea_popescu: computer pseudoscience may be the only engineering discipline in which the ancient solutions actually are better.
sina: token ring?
mircea_popescu: slavegirl to run kitchen >>> gps to watch kitchen being run in
mircea_popescu: see, because if she is too slow, i don't just SAY she's too slow. she fixes it. and if she dun fix it fast enough i got whips to help along. what's the gps do ? it doesn't afford you any agency towards the pizzeria. yet you're wartching. so what do you do ? you turn inward, educate ~yourself~.
sina: CRT monitors!
mircea_popescu: stupid fucking tool.
mircea_popescu: i don't want to grind myself by the measure of some 9.60 an hour mexicans in a kitchen somewhere.
sina: mircea_popescu: this is AU, no Mexicans, mostly SE Asians
mircea_popescu: do you know how many soviets yelled at the television set ?
asciilifeform: americans used to shoot at cinema screens
asciilifeform: in the early days
mircea_popescu: aha
asciilifeform: like birds, attacking reflection in window
mircea_popescu: i've seen some awesome bird-bird rape since i've been here btw. you have NO FDUCKING IDEA what birds do.
asciilifeform: 'that ain't another pigeon, idiot , it's yerself'
sina: speaking of birds, I read this yest: https://archive.fo/bvoGR
asciilifeform: if rat can learn to smoke.. why not bird.
sina: re this http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-28#1675484 ...here is one funny fact I learned today!☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 00:18 Framedragger: btw maersk (some related ports) is down due to new "ransomware" (orange website says it's the same nsa "eternalblue" windows vuln)
sina: "If you sign malware with a fake self-signed Microsoft certificate, several major AV's on VirusTotal will ignore it"
mircea_popescu: heh.
sina: following affected: @kaspersky @arcabit @Malwarebytes @TrendMicro @Webroot @zonealarm
mircea_popescu: grep "begin signed" blabla
sina: majority of infections have been in Ukraine, there are screenshots of lots of Ukranian stuff (grocery store terminals, train stations, etc)
sina: whoever wrote it didn't suck like WannaCry authors and implemented lateral movement
sina: so it can go inside the "crunchy on outside, soft inside" networks
mircea_popescu: nb
sina: what is nb?
mircea_popescu: not bad, contraction
sina: ah thx
sina: also, unrelated is this: https://archive.fo/lr3iN
sina: ikea made awesome solar concentrator for 5 fiat units
mircea_popescu: were you here for the "solar power" hax / lulz ?
sina: don't think so
mircea_popescu: lemme fish it out i guess
sina: OH YEAH, going back to the ransomware that hit Maersk
sina: Chernobyl is running on manual monitoring after their systems got hit!
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2017/the-incidental-humiliation-of-obamas-clean-energy-policies-marc-andreessens-internet-of-farts-and-other-such-comedic-gold-bricks/
mircea_popescu: see also that day in logs, lulz were had
sina: ha that is interesting, but the ikea thing is just a $5 polished metal bowl that has been setting stuff in peoples houses on fire
sina: will check logs for more lel
mircea_popescu: sounds liek a chiuldhood dream
sina: live your dreams mircea_popescu! set all that stuff on fire :P
mircea_popescu: i do make a fire now and again.
mircea_popescu: got a whole bbq terrace thing by teh pool.
sina: mmmm bbq I love me some bbq pork
mircea_popescu: well, no gps here so can't help you
sina: makes sense, you only just made it to fire, still another 7000 years before GPS :D :P
mircea_popescu: hehehe
sina: ok for real time to vegetate now, enjoy the day all, I will spend some time on rejigging gossipdthing later and probably be back with more dumb questions at that point
mircea_popescu: works
PeterL: Good evening Trilema
mircea_popescu: heya
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-28#1675808 << RunMoarWinblowz☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 03:14 sina: "If you sign malware with a fake self-signed Microsoft certificate, several major AV's on VirusTotal will ignore it"
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/879D62B318A6A49281F9402E6B11526A4FFA8C93C1731EF9C504069D427CF434 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1381...2279 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '68.231.181.46 (ssh-rsa key from 68.231.181.46 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ip68-231-181-46.tc.ph.cox.net. US AZ)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/879D62B318A6A49281F9402E6B11526A4FFA8C93C1731EF9C504069D427CF434 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1464...7843 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '68.231.181.46 (ssh-rsa key from 68.231.181.46 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ip68-231-181-46.tc.ph.cox.net. US AZ)
PeterL: do antiviruses count as something that is promistronic?
mircea_popescu: certainly.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/8D410EBED0F258765B617AA394D7D7BD3CC1D378783527DF7F6CF74D58DF7395 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1549...0947 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '66.111.32.94 (ssh-rsa key from 66.111.32.94 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (66-111-32-94.static.sagonet.net. US FL)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/8D410EBED0F258765B617AA394D7D7BD3CC1D378783527DF7F6CF74D58DF7395 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1572...4967 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '66.111.32.94 (ssh-rsa key from 66.111.32.94 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (66-111-32-94.static.sagonet.net. US FL)
PeterL: from old thread: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-11#1641818 << where I work, we do stuff in excel, and every spreadsheet gets printed along with a copy of the formula view and these go together through a data audit☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-04-11 00:22 asciilifeform: when whole thing is excel -- the 60 y.o. buffett at the top, theoretically understands the flow.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6308E9FD2A84490D6072FDA12D2BF1AE6EFD6ACD5358ADCAE26E167350FC227D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1442...8033 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '90.190.121.202 (ssh-rsa key from 90.190.121.202 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (202.121.190.90.sta.estpak.ee. EE)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6308E9FD2A84490D6072FDA12D2BF1AE6EFD6ACD5358ADCAE26E167350FC227D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1782...9023 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '90.190.121.202 (ssh-rsa key from 90.190.121.202 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (202.121.190.90.sta.estpak.ee. EE)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3D70714D7ABCF06D4A82734399F94130FDEAB3EA5E8655CC253329D340E7FC6A << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1600...1179 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '185.87.180.236 (ssh-rsa key from 185.87.180.236 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown IR)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3D70714D7ABCF06D4A82734399F94130FDEAB3EA5E8655CC253329D340E7FC6A << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1763...1999 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '185.87.180.236 (ssh-rsa key from 185.87.180.236 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown IR)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/396A5B41867A1256E75686B4951842D8943C3C2FC494F34BB71BCB37436417C1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1765...1089 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '80.52.249.158 (ssh-rsa key from 80.52.249.158 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (gyr158.internetdsl.tpnet.pl. PL WP)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/396A5B41867A1256E75686B4951842D8943C3C2FC494F34BB71BCB37436417C1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1780...1059 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '80.52.249.158 (ssh-rsa key from 80.52.249.158 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (gyr158.internetdsl.tpnet.pl. PL WP)
BingoBoingo: !~ticker F.DERP
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: (ticker [--bid|--ask|--last|--high|--low|--avg|--vol] [--currency XXX] [--market <market>|all]) -- Return pretty-printed ticker. Default market is Bitfinex. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. It is up to you to make sure the code is a valid (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all --currency birds
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Error: 'birds' is not a valid currency code.
sina: alrighty!
sina: thanks to clarification from mircea_popescu Framedragger and asciilifeform I have refactored for statelessness, which led to a significant amount of unnecessary code being deleted!
sina: currently only "standard" messages are supported
sina: but all traffic is sent as RSA payloads with nothing at all in plaintext ever
sina: everything now stateless
sina: FWIW, what I have now is also nothing like the spec on trilema.com :P
sina: lol https://archive.fo/rtW5P "Federal Reserve on bubble watch, but not worried yet"
jurov: asciilifeform: didja look into sewing machine pedals, btw? they seem to be designed solidly, for all-day use
asciilifeform: jurov: i did, same problem
asciilifeform: sewing machine ( and other power tool ) trigger pedals, if you think about it, indeed sometimes are used 'all day', but very different pattern from hypothetical keyboardpedal. they do long strokes.
asciilifeform: so the resting position thing does not so much matter to the sewing folx
asciilifeform: in other lulz, https://archive.is/iSqey
asciilifeform: 'On June 22, 2017, CNN.com published a story connecting Anthony Scaramucci with investigations into the Russian Direct Investment Fund. That story did not meet CNN's editorial standards and has been retracted. Links to the story have been disabled. CNN apologizes to Mr. Scaramucci.'
asciilifeform: apparently in usg also there are 'untouchable' folx.
asciilifeform: s is a hedge fund d00d.
asciilifeform: ( recently appointed minister of something or other )
sina: oh yeah saw this on twitter thought tmsr would be amused/interested
sina: "It’s not crazy for OpenSSL to redesign and simplify its CSPRNG. It is silly to make it MORE complicated." from tptacek
sina: linking to this PR https://github.com/openssl/openssl/pull/3758
shinohai: Good morning sina, in case you need to confess thy sins http://btcinfo.sdf.org/uploads/confession.jpeg
sina: evenin shinohai!
sina: I prefer atheists myself
sina: or at least those that have been cast from the church in disgrace! :P
shinohai: I can assure you that pic isn't sanctioned by the vatican at all
mod6: mornin'
sina: mornin mod6
mod6: been havin fun workin on gossip?
sina: indeed
sina: I was thinking about the latest iteration which is much simpler, I think I might try and convert the TCP bit to UDP tomorrow
mod6: cool!
sina: hows trb stuff comin along
sina: mod6: haha I just remembered I was reading logs yesterday and found one line where you said you don't like python :P
mod6: It's goin, been doing some testing on a experimental vpatch here as of late.
mod6: (to update the makefiles. http://thebitcoin.foundation/tickets/trb_tickets.html#36)
mod6: sina: naw, don't like python.
sina: it made me think about how I pretty much default to it for most problems above the complexity threshold of single line bash things
mod6: werd.
sina: I do think it makes a very good prototyping tool
sina: but do prefer strongly typed langs after knocking something together
mod6: ya, for sure.
sina: I see here everyone seems to know/use lisp and it's a lang I have almost 0 exposure to
mod6: python got me with its for loop else case.
asciilifeform: sina: garbagecollected language on pc hardware is unsuitable for crypto
mod6: i'm a lisp n00b.
mod6: i did start getting into scheme last year though.
mod6: i don't use emacs or clisp or anything like that.
sina: asciilifeform: sure that is understood as general principle, it's unsuitable for really anything low level
sina: mod6: pls clarify "for loop else case"?
asciilifeform: sina: this is quite mistaken. strictly for crypto.
asciilifeform: because - again - nonconstant time and space.
sina: yah
sina: I only learned recently that python was created for use on Amoeba OS
asciilifeform: soooo asciilifeform was taking a morning walk and saw a sight straight out of a mircea_popescu article. teenage chick standing in doorway, her mother (?) packing something into car, in front yard. chick then lifts her shirt and reveals naked cunt, and smiles. mother goes apeshit, screaming in, i think, portuguese, even now, i can almost hear it through open window.
sina: you made a friend!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu oughta send his ufo over and pick up his 'candidate'
asciilifeform: lol
mod6: sina: there's a snippet of its use in asciilifeform's V, detailed in ben_vulpes's blog: http://cascadianhacker.com/07_v-tronics-101-a-gentle-introduction-to-the-most-serene-republic-of-bitcoins-cryptographically-backed-version-control-system
mod6: asciilifeform: you
asciilifeform: waiwat mod6
mod6: 've had a splendid morning
asciilifeform: certainly a lulzgem, to see creatures step out of the pages of mircea_popescu and into meat
mod6: asciilifeform: for loop, with else case.
mod6: it got me, way back in the day.
asciilifeform: aah yes pythonism
mod6: anyway, that was the only thing really with python. most of it seems fine.
mod6: *shrug*
sina: this is a good read http://www.loper-os.org/?p=861
mod6: mornin'!
mircea_popescu: heya
sina: mircea_popescu: mornin. I rejigged the gossipthing. I think what I have now reflects more closely what was discussed earlier. however I also think the spec vastly differs so may be worthwhile adding a disclaimer to the existing one or writing an entirely new one
sina: anyhoos, past by bedtime, good evenin
mircea_popescu: sina : that's how this stuff goes, and wehy someone biting bullet and writing an impl, even if he writes it in php, is worth it. was deliberately demonstrated with the fabulous hash function, and generally.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-28#1675863 << W.O.R.D.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 09:12 sina: thanks to clarification from mircea_popescu Framedragger and asciilifeform I have refactored for statelessness, which led to a significant amount of unnecessary code being deleted!
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-28#1675869 <<< this is not a bad idea on the face, get an old singer or w/e. i might've even suggested it way back when. they do have a lot of inertia thop☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 11:23 jurov: asciilifeform: didja look into sewing machine pedals, btw? they seem to be designed solidly, for all-day use
asciilifeform: i have not only, believe, a sewing machine here, but other power tools actuated with pedals. but see the thread.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-28#1675902 << use the slut ; that's what she's there for.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 14:34 sina: I see here everyone seems to know/use lisp and it's a lang I have almost 0 exposure to
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-28#1675914 << and you didn't stop ?!☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 14:38 asciilifeform: soooo asciilifeform was taking a morning walk and saw a sight straight out of a mircea_popescu article. teenage chick standing in doorway, her mother (?) packing something into car, in front yard. chick then lifts her shirt and reveals naked cunt, and smiles. mother goes apeshit, screaming in, i think, portuguese, even now, i can almost hear it through open window.
asciilifeform: lol, see also http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-23#1674130 etc.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-23 18:15 asciilifeform: js-of-mp: because the wrongmusic plays not at the bar, but permanently on her face..
mircea_popescu: she was ugly ?
asciilifeform: to asciilifeform's lights
asciilifeform: but i suspect mircea_popescu would have liked. brazil.
mircea_popescu: let me explain to you how the duty of fucking works, because you're perhaps unaware.
mircea_popescu: so, the young woman wants to individuate, gives her cunt to male, old woman / mother goes apeshit, male protects cuntlet from her mother. this is how it goes.
asciilifeform pictures a 'партия сказала надо -- комсомол ответил: есть!'
mircea_popescu: you can't simply walk away / pretend it's not your problem. it is your problem.
asciilifeform: it is?!
mircea_popescu: yes.
asciilifeform: the surprising/memorable thing was the apeshit mother
asciilifeform: what's the mechanism there
mircea_popescu: i dunno dood, old women. who the fuck understands the mechanism of their trying to ruin the world.
mircea_popescu: pantsuit means "incomprehensible evil" and no more.
asciilifeform: the duty of bacteriologist is to comprehend the 'incomprehensible plague' etc
asciilifeform: so might be worth digging.
mircea_popescu: there's no duty of the bacteriologist.
mircea_popescu: the charge of the bacteriologist may well be that, but entirely different item, a charge.
asciilifeform: hm.
mircea_popescu: this is the important point here : that you're not attracted to the daugther's cunt. god knows there is naught more abundant on this earth. BUT you are to repress the mother into political irrelevancy.
mircea_popescu: that, you must do.
asciilifeform: describe, for education, how mircea_popescu goes about doing this.
mircea_popescu: i'll say this much : that never in my history, with ANY woman, was it the case the mother didn't go some variant of apeshit and i repressed her into irrelevancy.
mircea_popescu: even with women that were orphans, or didn't talk to their mothers in years.
mircea_popescu: how, specifically, it goes varies by case. very often, at least in my youth, it was "that mp, he's such a great guy, not like the other vagabonds you keep bringing home!!1". ie, they self-repressed.
asciilifeform: sometimes the simulated devil running in chick's head is the father, not mother
mircea_popescu: which is very patently there, they doin't know it, but biology dun care.
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform's pet's, for instance )
mircea_popescu: at the other extreme, of course, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580129☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-09 01:44 mircea_popescu: ~if i am~ a drug dealer and i burn down your house, you'll what ? file a police report ? go on the local news network with a teary eyed "no one could have predicted that if i get pissy with people who break the law for a living i might end up with a burned down house" ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, plenty of kids today suckle two mothers as it were.
mircea_popescu: but in any case : the socialist rot starts with permitting mothers to go apeshit near their daughter's bare cunt. the swamp drain starts there.
mircea_popescu: it's the whole through which "the world doth not belong to you" goes into pantsuit skull.
mircea_popescu: the hole* lmao
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-28#1675879 << ftr tptacek is the infamous 'USE /DEV/URANDOM !!' d00d☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 13:17 sina: "It’s not crazy for OpenSSL to redesign and simplify its CSPRNG. It is silly to make it MORE complicated." from tptacek
asciilifeform: beloved sage ideologue of the schneierism komyoonity, author of gems like https://archive.is/ootJi
asciilifeform: !#s tptacek
a111: 14 results for "tptacek", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=tptacek
asciilifeform: see also esp. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-17#1523233 .☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-08-17 16:54 asciilifeform: all i solidly know of the tptacek fella is his reaction to phuctor.
mircea_popescu: this "arguing in the general for opposite particulars" byzantine "wisdom" ie stupidtity is just about all us by mass now
asciilifeform: aha, 'what shall it be, gavincoin or hearncoin'
mircea_popescu: opposite i mean to the general. like "making rng more complex is silly -- here, use tyhis broken one"
mircea_popescu: bitch, that "silly" does not map on your "use this broken one"
asciilifeform: or even to promote the notion that openssl has whatever kind of future.
mircea_popescu: "oh, but the only reason i even discuss that generazl point is to try and sell you cheetos"
asciilifeform: 'we are talking about it, THEREFORE RELEVANT!1' etc
mircea_popescu: yeah lolz. "this is what is important TO US"
asciilifeform is quite looking forward to the frenzied butthurtz of the shitlibs folx when 'p' is released.
asciilifeform: 'Sources need to be statistically assessed. The quality of the entropy being produced needs to be estimated so that enough can be released to properly seed the RNG. The dieharder and TESTU01 suites are good but they both require prohibitively large amounts of random data to operate. NIST's SP800-90B tests seem to be statistically sound and have manageable data requirements....' << didjaknow!
mircea_popescu: lel
mircea_popescu: see, what do you want dirigible for. alreadfy got one, looking down through telescope at teh stone age folk
mircea_popescu: "showers require prohibitive amounts of mule-carried water to operate"
asciilifeform: they sure do!111
mircea_popescu: ikr ?
asciilifeform: use /dev/fauxwater
mircea_popescu: it's almost just as good, and it smells like roses a donkey shat on
asciilifeform: hey, it's a hose from the stable's piss trough -- but at least it doesn't block !!
asciilifeform: all quality hokum has a measure of fact mixed in : e.g. 'dieharder' is in fact extraordinarily 'hungry'
asciilifeform: but not unusably .
mircea_popescu: not that i've seen
mircea_popescu: our problems is its cycling not its hunger
asciilifeform: ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-23#1660237 << see also )☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-23 01:06 asciilifeform: ( the grade outputted by the 'hungrier' tests appears to be in direct proportion to sample size, and very little else; and FG, /dev/urandom, various fashionable prng, intel's mysterymeatrng, and several others, all exhibit same effect, 100% pass begins somewhere b/w 1-3GB sample size. )
asciilifeform: well yes, it cycles, because 'hungry'
mircea_popescu: but io got food
asciilifeform: author apparently considered 'p value too low unless TB of input' or whatnot
mircea_popescu: not unreasonable. let fg run for a while
asciilifeform: and would not reply to asciilifeform's or other (iirc BingoBoingo ) attempts to find why
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i got one here with 16G and counting
mircea_popescu: eh, TB ?
asciilifeform: yes!
mircea_popescu: i read gb.
asciilifeform: some tests still read 'rewound 15 times'
mircea_popescu: well running 1mn times over 1mb is not "bettering" the mb
mircea_popescu: elementarily.
asciilifeform: as i understand it was a statistical ('p value') demand by the author.
mircea_popescu: yes but then he implements rewinds ?
asciilifeform: aaaha.
asciilifeform: and i did ask 'why?!!!'
asciilifeform: 0 reply.
mircea_popescu: fucking stupid camp. there's a guarantee real random stream will vary from 01010101 by some count.
mircea_popescu: then that becomes a pattern when you reuse it
asciilifeform: the notion of making a statistical claim about a doubled-tripled-15upled up string, is ????????.
asciilifeform: 'cannot rightfully apprehend the confusion of ideas that would lead to such...' (tm)(r)(babbage)
mircea_popescu: p-value worship, as such, numerically. i betcha if i told him i have a dentistry certificate he'd be impressed.
asciilifeform: it is in this case specifically cargocultism, rather than application
asciilifeform: i could live with 'too few bits? yer stuck with lower P, and oh here i'll print the P'
asciilifeform: but instead we get... rewinds.
mircea_popescu: bcause nobody can ever be told they'\re not fucking good enough omfgbbq
asciilifeform: well no, not so simple, dh is happy to print 'weak' or 'fail' that resulted from... IT WRAPPING THE STRING
mircea_popescu: yes. no child left behind always means "the kids you really like getting procusted"
asciilifeform: ( try running dh on, say, a kByte of anything whatsoever )
mircea_popescu: !~google procust's bed
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Procrustean bed | Define Procrustean bed at Dictionary.com: <http://www.dictionary.com/browse/procrustean-bed>; Procrustean bed | Define Procrustean bed at Dictionary.com: <http://www.dictionary.com/browse/procrustean-bed>; Encyclopedia of Greek Mythology: Procrustes - Mythweb: <http://www.mythweb.com/encyc/entries/procrustes.html>
asciilifeform: !#s procrusted
a111: 2 results for "procrusted", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=procrusted
asciilifeform: !#s procrusting
a111: 1 result for "procrusting", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=procrusting
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform which is why i put it in
asciilifeform: further lulz from recent fishwrap, https://archive.is/37eB9 >> 'Venezuelan police helicopter strafed the Supreme Court and a government ministry on Tuesday...'
mircea_popescu: did it fall ?
asciilifeform: 'no reports of injuries'
asciilifeform: mega-marksmanship
mircea_popescu: you ever been in one odf those ? they're ~useless for aiming
asciilifeform: i had nfi there were any place to even fit a barrel on these
asciilifeform: must have fired out of window
mircea_popescu: i was thinking one of the military ones.
asciilifeform: specified as 'police'
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mega-marksmanship << lel
asciilifeform: '"It's a terrorist attack that is part of an insurrectional offensive by Venezuelan right-wing extremists with the support of foreign governments and powers," said a Venezuelan government communique on the helicopter raid.' << didjaknow
mircea_popescu: "terrorist" = some govt doth not approve
asciilifeform: 'Around the time of the attack, the pro-government Supreme Court expanded the role of the state ombudsman, a human rights guarantor who is closely allied with Maduro, by giving him powers previously held only by the state prosecutor's office. Tarek Saab, an ardent Maduro ally, can now lead criminal investigations by ordering state officials to conduct autopsies and carry out ballistics tests, powers previously reserved for state pros
asciilifeform: ecutors. He will also have access to the case files associated with criminal trials.'
asciilifeform: top orc.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-28#1676017 << 16GB, ftr☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 16:50 mircea_popescu: i read gb.
asciilifeform: ( it ~wants~, seems, TB+ )
asciilifeform: for 0wrap.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-28#1675561 << i reread the mega-thread, and it seems that i promised mircea_popescu an algo ! and never iirc posted...☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 01:32 Framedragger: (ah in fact a bit up the stack, http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/#comment-121602)
asciilifeform: gotta do this, at some point , after done with the rsa thing
asciilifeform: ( this was very near the time when FUCKGOATS was beginning to happen , and it took over asciilifeform's head for a long while )
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> apparently in usg also there are 'untouchable' folx. << Care to do a qntra? Your interpretation seems more interesting than mine.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: hands full atm
BingoBoingo: Ah
BingoBoingo: In other citizen complaints: "Regarding recent posts about a suspicious white panel van that has been spotted ... was contacted by the owner who recognized his vehicle after seeing the posts on social media. He is a local construction worker who had pulled over to take a phone call after leaving a job site near the original complaint location... this was a false alarm."
BingoBoingo: ^ Workvehicles now assumed to be crime scenes
BingoBoingo: ^ Pulling over to make phone call like you aren't a suicidal psycho bitch, nao suspicious
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/06/fake-news-organizations-begin-bleeding-showing-fatigue/ << Qntra - Fake News Organizations Begin Bleeding, Showing Fatigue
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'ensures'
TomServo: also, take *its* toll
BingoBoingo: ty fxd
ben_vulpes: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/06/27/seattles-higher-minimum-wage-is-actually-working-just-fine/ << "minimum wage increase is totally working!!!"
ben_vulpes: best part, "their results are just completely out of the standard accepted by minimum wage hike advocates as reasonable"
jurov: a parallel with economy struck me. economists invented something they call "value" and are jerking off on it it ever since
jurov: and cryptographers just invented -- entropy.
asciilifeform: in other noose, in 6236676 phuctor moduli, still just the same old 2 fermat-factorables as 6 mo. ago.
asciilifeform: ( 10,000 shots of fermatola / per.; took ~40 min. )
asciilifeform: !!up palatine
deedbot: palatine voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: palatine: who might you be ?
palatine: that's an interesting question
asciilifeform: palatine: if so interesting, consider answering..?
palatine: just reading trilema and contravex and followed the lead here
asciilifeform: palatine: enjoy. and also there are logs, http://btcbase.org/log .
palatine: thank you
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-28#1676067 << :p☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 17:55 asciilifeform: ( this was very near the time when FUCKGOATS was beginning to happen , and it took over asciilifeform's head for a long while )
mircea_popescu: there is time tho
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-28#1676078 << "twice the heroin works ok for me!"☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 20:23 ben_vulpes: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/06/27/seattles-higher-minimum-wage-is-actually-working-just-fine/ << "minimum wage increase is totally working!!!"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-28#1676082 << cosmic rays behave in mysterious ways.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 21:15 asciilifeform: in other noose, in 6236676 phuctor moduli, still just the same old 2 fermat-factorables as 6 mo. ago.
shinohai: http://archive.is/9jQzU <<< Top kek OPSEC