log
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BingoBoingo: https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/716tmr/its_been_nearly_a_week_since_seattles_mayor_quit/ lol
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715839 << major pos innit.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-19 19:20 ben_vulpes: just...no new blocks.
mircea_popescu: "who the fuck designs a p2p network like this ?" "hey, thank your lucky stars he didn't build it out of wxwidgets"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715856 << except for "what dnc", i guess.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-19 20:25 asciilifeform: ( translation from usg limba de lemn : 'there will now be concrete penalties for exposing dnc diddling of elections' )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715867 << damn, i shoulda freaked out when sina wanted to show me his gossipd.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-19 21:02 phf: same thread as a guy who freaked the fuck out, because i told him to ssh into a box for the interview
mircea_popescu: which btw, what happened to him ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715869 << sounds to me like an orc half-implementation of "#trilema on freenode, use <this> if you don't have an irc client." neh☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-19 21:04 phf: i was trying to be ~polite~. if you put "10 years of unix" on your resume, i sort of assume "tell me your favorite editor and then ssh into the box for interview" is a bushido level of politeness
mircea_popescu: i always thought it somewhat weird that ~all we ever interview is chicks for the topless position, fwiw.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715878 << i suppose it was on the candidate list now that "bitcoin core" and "bitcoin cash" both crashed and burned ; and there you go ruining all its great cachet!☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-19 21:12 asciilifeform: btw 'bitcoin-heirloom' by mikehearn, gavin et al, when.
mircea_popescu: !~translate es to en servicio por el recollectamiento de materiales revalorizables
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: service for the collection of revalorizable materials
mircea_popescu: ohic.
asciilifeform: oh hey 'cash' finally croaked?
mircea_popescu: i'm sure not to your standards.
mircea_popescu: but the bill as written by the usg.hacks was "takes over", not "lingers irrelevantly for as long as we keep pouring money into the sand"
asciilifeform: troo
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715881 << here's an alt take on this : the problem comes from having the notion of byte be anything else but bus width. if 64 bit machines natively worked on 64 bit bytes, all the message fucktification bs known as unicode would be significantly less of a conversation issue.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-19 21:21 asciilifeform: phf: it's the root of 90% of the bloat and outright retardation in the currently extant utils
mircea_popescu: knock yourself out, have 64 bit long glyph pages, who the fuck is keeping you.
mircea_popescu: type ctrl-X alt-b macro-meta-F12 for item #10101100101011001010110010101100
asciilifeform: seekrit: pc arch already fetches 128b wordz internally
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: but naturally buried under layers of microshitcompatibilityatallcostsforevah
mircea_popescu: so why even maintain the "8 bit byte" nonsense ? "oh, it'd be hard for people to change" ? WHAT FUCKING PEOPLE!!! 80% of everyone involved with computers heard about this "programmable" thing sometime LAST YEAR
mircea_popescu: it's pretty fucking clear by now that 64bit is where it stops anyway.
mircea_popescu: so update the byte, and be fucking done with it.
mircea_popescu: there is ~no benefit in maintaining a "quarter byte" antiquated notion, this isn't the museum of Z80 computing science.
asciilifeform avoids baking 8bitism into his creations, when possible -- and sane langs make it possible
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's fine on some platforms. i think we might be like the only people who even touched such a platform this decade.
mircea_popescu: and me entirely by accident, lawyer's den had his antique playthings, we did some rally thing on an old crt tv.
asciilifeform: i like z80. like 6502 even moar
asciilifeform: ( cleaner arch )
mircea_popescu: nothing wrong with that. but note the fucking 8-bit byte friendly programs COME ON FUCKING CASSETTE TAPE! LIKE ROXETTE OMFG!
mod6: join the joyride alf
mircea_popescu: shit's not gonna be reading any ssds, dvds, etcs, so why the fuck is my 2gb sample of two girls fucking each other's ass on the brandemburg expressed in z80 units.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715887 << because meanwhile he gets it!☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-19 21:30 phf: i don't know why you explain to me things that ~i argued in the past~. fwiw, i argued "utf-8 is a whole spittoon" back when the question of encoding first came up, to somewhat fierce opposition
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715903 << interestingly, same here. is there a known-good application of the rope ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-19 21:39 phf: i've actually tried putting ropes in a bunch of projects and they never have good performance characteristics. in fact for text editors no one has invented anything better than "one string per one line", and if you want to be fancy you split it at point (what emacs does)
mircea_popescu: also, the splitting must be a view (ie, toggleable).
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715929 << and yet nano can handle tb. it'll take a while to bring it up, but it will. insertions np, seek-next back and forth np, whole line deletions etc.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-19 21:51 phf: additional point is that traditionally when someone said "multi-gb" what was really meant is "file bigger than can fit in memory", and suddenly(!11) your whole underlying editor algorithm changes drastically, because you have be doing partial updates, and temp files, and all kinds of cut-and-paste trickery. that's why emacs has a special cased "big file" support. with ropes if you want to achieve multi-gb that way you basically have to
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715948 << i suspect that was the original idea of pointers. "you want to insert X between A and B in AB memory ? NO PROBLEM! make A point to X instead of B and X to B itself AND IT IS DONE! MAGICALLY!"☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-19 22:15 phf: it would be interesting to try and design architecture where you have an insert operation on a memory region (cons and lisp machines is kind of it, but that's done by sidestepping the issue; i'm talking a traditional von neumann machine)
mircea_popescu: then the whole stack came tumbling down ; the chair that collapsed the moon unit.
mircea_popescu: and in other randoms of today, "Есть удобный справочник от Мирчи Попеску о том, как взаимодействовать с фиатными учреждениями, которые пытаются требовать юрисдикции над виртуальными мирами."
asciilifeform: lolwat
asciilifeform: where
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716003 << only if willing to strain the meaning of 'will handle' until is screams☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-20 01:32 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715929 << and yet nano can handle tb. it'll take a while to bring it up, but it will. insertions np, seek-next back and forth np, whole line deletions etc.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716005 << manually driven pointerolade is exactly the proverbial 'bus with four steering wheels'☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-20 01:35 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715948 << i suspect that was the original idea of pointers. "you want to insert X between A and B in AB memory ? NO PROBLEM! make A point to X instead of B and X to B itself AND IT IS DONE! MAGICALLY!"
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1715990 << on second thought, this is prominently not true in... FUCKGOATS ( just as every other rs232 device, it must be connected to a machine that knows what to do with 8bit byte and NEVER pads it to any other size with nulls or otherwise )☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-20 01:19 asciilifeform avoids baking 8bitism into his creations, when possible -- and sane langs make it possible
asciilifeform: 8bitism is pretty thoroughly baked into various iron.
asciilifeform: ( e.g., you can buy ram that's 1 bit wide, or 4, or in multiples of 8 or (very expensively) of 9, but afaik no other size. and multitude of other devices, e.g. anything that runs on spi, expect 8bitism )
asciilifeform: sadly 8bitism is aaaalmost as thoroughly entrenched as binarism.
asciilifeform blows dust off 1st ed. k&r , the one with the arch bitnesses tables
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform happycoin.club/fiatnyie-uchrezhdeniya-v-virtualnyih-mirah/ bitminer.in.ua/фиатные-учреждения-в-виртуальных- and assorted other such.
asciilifeform: reads like machine trans
mircea_popescu: and i'll point out that while Попескy is acceptable, Мирчи is pretty far from the original.
asciilifeform: it's rubbish
asciilifeform: google trans or similar with a small bit of manual delousing (or perhaps not even)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, you were the one with "errythang exists in russian" kick no ? :D
asciilifeform: in this sense 'everything exists' in elvish.
asciilifeform: in other noose, asciilifeform found that 1) knuthian division can be sped up by ANOTHER factor of 2, by walking the bits of the quotient instead of shifting'em 2) barrett reduction in constant time is almost certainly possible
mircea_popescu: and now thatthe log is done, i shall dedicate myself to the other enjoyable literate passtime -- the reading of old trilema articles.
mircea_popescu: !!up Cruxflare
deedbot: Cruxflare voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform bbl, meat
mircea_popescu: soo, given the "cultured milk" yoghurt bs these days, i wonder what % of us population's entire exposure to that concept is in that context, and as a result has come to believe "cultured" means you know, you've had some germs injected or something.
mircea_popescu: after all, you're not supposed to look anything up, just guess "what it could mean" "in context".
BingoBoingo: "Man, that site is weird. There's lots of stories that have the word "pantsuits" in them but the site purports to be about bitcoin."
ben_vulpes: don't you know, BingoBoingo, tmsr~ is 95% shannonizer by linecount
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: That called De Fence
mircea_popescu: lolwut.
mircea_popescu: since when trilema "purports" ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: About Qntra
mircea_popescu: ah
mircea_popescu: hm. siiince... when qntra purports ?
BingoBoingo: Apparently since https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/716tmr/its_been_nearly_a_week_since_seattles_mayor_quit/dn8rarr/
mircea_popescu: oh well. if it was on reddit...
BingoBoingo: "that's barely English, and the only reason "pantsuit" is in there is because of a high correlation with "liberal" thanks to HRC."
mircea_popescu: what's a hrc ? teh pantsuited hilarity ?
BingoBoingo: Completely neglecting the whole point of... A couple catholics burried their bishops in little boys and news pushes it decades later
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: AHA, yeah.
mircea_popescu: gotta love how teh jews are still out there, acting as if there's more substance to this supposed "liberal" thing than said hilarity.
BingoBoingo: HRC is how they say "Hillary Clinton" in places they don't want google to associate with Hilary Clinton
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: o wait, are they "protecting their candidate" ?
BingoBoingo: So it seems. This is just speculation based on observed behavior
mircea_popescu: it's basic, good thinking such as this that saves elections, i'll have you know. goood thing hilarity still has a chance!
BingoBoingo: Right, Just like that 83rd trimester abortion can get the girl's modesty back
mircea_popescu: hey, she didn't (((REALLY))) lose if they don't admit she has!
BingoBoingo: lol
mircea_popescu: that's how you know they're not (((REALLY))) barristas, either. they don't admit to it, right ? so it's not true.
BingoBoingo: But Trump spoke to the UN so now he won per the rest of the world nao too
mircea_popescu: sometimes i can't help but think if you didn't have me around to provide grounding you'd end up drifting away into some cult or something BingoBoingo.
mircea_popescu: would you like to buy a house together ?
mircea_popescu: i have this friend (ie, chick that was dating hotter guys than me in highschool and never sat with me in cafeteria) that's (((being))) a real estate agent except she's not closed on anything since 2015. it'd REALLY make my day if I could introduce her to some beta trading in their govt issued paycheck for a govt issued house certificate.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Seriously. I could drift away into another cult again!
mircea_popescu: the enjoyable aspect of these empty hollow shells of nothing PURPORTING to be "liberals" or "consumers" or whatever the fuck it is they're purporting to be is that it takes literally 0 effort to parody them into the ground.
mircea_popescu: it's not even lolcows, more like lol-artesians.
BingoBoingo: Loltisinal!
mircea_popescu: for reals.
BingoBoingo: Anyway, that was all a fucking setup. Look at the real link aggregation site: https://voat.co/v/Conspiracy/2140102
BingoBoingo: The upvoats don't lie. Reddit's been eclipsed hard by the conspirator community
mircea_popescu: i don't think you're allowed to use votes that way.
mircea_popescu: i mean... is that even legal ?!
BingoBoingo: Well, even the top comment is better: "“But why would you want to offend this poor, oppressed pedosexual, you bigot? You’re just pedophobic!” – jewish media"
mircea_popescu: who's who ?
BingoBoingo: The Seattle mayor is the pedosexual
BingoBoingo: The jew media is the jew media
BingoBoingo: and the discussion is over the same qntra piece, submitted to the alt-Reddit with the same title to samely title /conspiracy
mircea_popescu: oh i c
BingoBoingo: Twas an experiment
mircea_popescu: so basically reddit sucks at everything, including its purported purpose in life ?
mircea_popescu: i suck at being surprised.
BingoBoingo: lol, yes
BingoBoingo: http://archive.is/N0GwT
BingoBoingo: Fat bob killed fat bob
BingoBoingo: Don't be a murderer, Don't be fat bob
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716033 << 50/50 between that and people thinking germ injection is fancy☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-20 02:47 mircea_popescu: soo, given the "cultured milk" yoghurt bs these days, i wonder what % of us population's entire exposure to that concept is in that context, and as a result has come to believe "cultured" means you know, you've had some germs injected or something.
ben_vulpes: "i'm cultured, i had a stool transplant!"
ben_vulpes: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2017-9-14#205675 << i have a line open to "UESTC" in chengdu, i'll keep y'all in the loop
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2017-09-14 23:59 mircea_popescu: nope.
mircea_popescu: what\s an uestc
BingoBoingo: lol, a "part of evolution": https://archive.is/jP8gb
BingoBoingo: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/09/19/controversy-over-paper-favor-colonialism-sparks-calls-retraction
BingoBoingo: “Anticolonialism ravaged countries as nationalist elites mobilized illiterate populations with appeals to destroy the market economies, pluralistic and constitutional polities, and rational policy processes of European colonizers.”
phf: lobbesbotapocalypse
mircea_popescu: damn.
mircea_popescu: lobbes srsly now...
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo check out the libertards stealing the having stolen !
mircea_popescu: yes "anticolonialism" was bullshit, but not because it destroyed a supposed rational approach of the colonisers. it was bullshit because it exactly mirrored "civil rights" at home, ie was driven by INTERnationalistic, socialist elite-wannabes.
shinohai: !~later tell lobbes You're gonna hafta to tell me the story of this one over a beer one day. [~]D
jhvh1: shinohai: Error: "~" is not a valid command.
shinohai: O.o
phf: bots are rebelling
shinohai: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: shinohai: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 3938.0, vol: 12310.83273439 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 3940.9, vol: 39054.57980368 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 3810.105, vol: 1136.08650000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 3944.0, vol: 6641.65517819 | Volume-weighted last average: 3938.13202592
mircea_popescu: the singularitits!
shinohai: It must be phf .... same exact command worked in my private chan xD
mod6: mornin'
ben_vulpes: !~later tell mircea_popescu "university of electronic science and technology of china"
jhvh1: ben_vulpes: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: in other noose, ACHTUNG, panzers, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/BAjEK/?raw=true << 27.2 sec (4096b modexp)
asciilifeform: ^ no barrett yet. and there is still room for polish in barrettless variant, there is still a great deal of avoidable shifting and subtraction of guaranteed-empty words in FZ_Mod ( exercise for alert reader, to see where ! )
asciilifeform: alert reader will also notice that FZ_Mod is now ok with half-width divisors, eliminating the copying in FZ_Mod_Mul and FZ_Mod_Square .
asciilifeform: all of this - naturally - remains properly constantspacetime and unrollable.
mod6 looks
asciilifeform: ultimately it would make sense to use barrett reduction but currently i am not satisfied with the proof that it converges ( for some reason, every statement of this proof that i could find, seems to exclude reduction by powers of 2, and i do not yet understand why )
asciilifeform: with barrett, modexp should go back to below-1sec @ 4096b .
asciilifeform: but i will need an ironclad proof that it worx for ALL possible inputs.
asciilifeform: ( the 'corrector' at the end of barrett will have to go through a mux, and fire a fixed # of times, and gotta prove that this-many and no-greater suffices. )
asciilifeform: barrett reduction >> http://www.loper-os.org/pub/barrett_1986.pdf << 1333337 w4r3z . yes, pdf, it's the original 1986 article, scan.
asciilifeform: i ain't linking to pediwikian bowdlerizations , and there is no other source afaik .
asciilifeform: ( hint re FZ_Mod : notice that the first Bitness shift-lefts are really single-word; and same is true of the subtraction, and of the mux; the next Bitness ditto and ditto -- are really 2-word ops; and so on. )
asciilifeform: it isn't actually necessary to touch the entire R for the first Bitness*(RemainderWordness-1) (on 64-bit box, and for the 4096b example, that's 64*63 == 4032 ) shots of the inner loop !
asciilifeform: there are a total of Bitness * DividendWordness cycles , in this example 64*128 == 8192
asciilifeform: ( ...handwaves!1!11!... ) this sums to a potential 25% saving of clock , if finessed.
asciilifeform: ( why not 50%? exercise ! )
asciilifeform: bonus lul: https://archive.is/tK1o1 << list of public catastrophic bugs in bigint libs . bonus-2 : compiled by the perpetrators of mit's attempt at faux-ffa ( won't link separately, it's a megalith of mechanical 'proof' crapolade )
asciilifeform: !!up TomServo
deedbot: TomServo voiced for 30 minutes.
TomServo: Ahoy, just wanted to pass this along: https://keccak.team/2017/not_arx.html
TomServo: archive.is seems to be struggling with it.
asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/s0ZSW/?raw=true << plain txt
asciilifeform: TomServo: there is no scientific basis for the strength of ANY published hash algo whatsoever.
TomServo: asciilifeform: I recall you mentioning this.
asciilifeform: ( plenty of known basis for ~weaknesses~ of various . the absence of which, in any particular case, has NO bearing on above. )
asciilifeform: and imho there is a serious problem with 'not ARX' in linked piece : omitting additions makes the hash ~considerably~ nsa-friendlier : it is easier to implement xor/and/not/shift on, e.g., optical computer, when you don't need addition (and ergo carries)
ben_vulpes: and as the keccacteams mention, little incentive for cryptoacademia to formalize how ARXceteras might fall over. hard work with little guarantee of payout apparently terrible strategy in a world of publishorperish + everyone pretends to ignore that none of the academics ever bothered to do the hard work of an actual ffa, preferring instead cheap outs like leaky tables
mircea_popescu: while the carry property of addition is cryptographically valuable, it'd be better to use a general transform with bit coda instead.
asciilifeform: depends 'better' for whom.
mircea_popescu: consider something like mp's generalized addition : the sum of two numbers flips a bit if and only if one of them is prime.
mircea_popescu: there's a whole class of generalizations that can be done in this same vein.
mircea_popescu: addition is "and you flip a bit if and only if the digits overflow the mod", but this is historical accident.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: anything involving 'isprime()' during everyday life is either a table lookup (leaks!) or miller-rabin (slow as fuck, temptation to cut iterations and introduce eggog)
mircea_popescu: anyway, since examples work best : 763 mp+ 229 => 3 + 9 = 12 ie 2, 6 + 2 = 8 + 1 carry, 7 + 2 = 9 + 1 carry = 0 so finally = 82
asciilifeform: and incidentally i dun have a nonleaking miller-rabin yet, need nonleaking gcd ( have on paper, but not in ffa yet )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform per digit tho
asciilifeform: then it'll be a table
mircea_popescu: just illustrating the concept.
asciilifeform: i'd prefer a macroscale numbertheoretical hash, even one that explicitly stands on strength of, e.g., rsa, to the currently extant soup.
mircea_popescu: i was not proceding towards a purpose! but it is worth pointing out that the addition understood in terms of "sum+bit diddle" can readily be extended ; and probably should be.
lobbes: fuck. I apologize for lobbesbot's join/part spam lately. no idea wtf is happening. taking him out of chan for time-being...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lookx to me like your addition dun commute ( or associate... )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform indeed not.
asciilifeform: does it even work in a ring
mircea_popescu: um. it does commute, 763 mp+ 229 = 229 mp+ 763 = 82.
mircea_popescu: association it does not tho.
asciilifeform: commutes yea
mircea_popescu: and the whole point was to break out of ring.
asciilifeform: there's usefulbreak and gutsalloverthefloor break
mircea_popescu: useful for whom ?
asciilifeform: i won't say yet which it is
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: i also fucked it up because 9 is not prime so it should have carried the 1
asciilifeform: incidentally iirc we did the proof of 'if there is a good hash, there is a good blockcipher, and vice-versa'
mircea_popescu: let's do this fucking properly.
mircea_popescu: 763 mp+ 229 => 3 + 9 = 2 + 1 carry. 6 + 2 = 8 (+1 carry = 9) + 1 carry, 7 + 2 = 9 + 1 carry = 0 so finally = 92
asciilifeform: ( where 'good' is 'proof of difficulty of randomly-generated case is possible' )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i seem to unspecifically recall this
asciilifeform: it's a triviality: if you have 1 , you can make the other out of it with ~no effort
shinohai: lobbes: There are like 30 instances of it over in #eulora
mircea_popescu: o god yeah.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716136 << the truth of the matter is that no fiat pretend sovereign CAN AFFORD to do such work. because they are poor. it's like asking why easter islandians didn't build pyramids.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-20 19:19 ben_vulpes: and as the keccacteams mention, little incentive for cryptoacademia to formalize how ARXceteras might fall over. hard work with little guarantee of payout apparently terrible strategy in a world of publishorperish + everyone pretends to ignore that none of the academics ever bothered to do the hard work of an actual ffa, preferring instead cheap outs like leaky tables
mircea_popescu: wtf out of, tree trunks ?
asciilifeform: >> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-19#1615434 << oblig☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-02-19 03:54 asciilifeform: (iirc we had a thread where i described how corporate ameritards, if given a problem like phuctor, would happily soak up a few $mil and megawatt of iron)
asciilifeform: folx with 'infinite' resources, turns out, can't afford some very basic things.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the above example of "alt-addition" is mostly based on the happenstance that in base 10, the set of digits that are also prime is {1,2, 3, 5, 7} and the set of digits that are not prime is {0, 4, 6, 8, 9} ie it just so happens to be a perfectly balanced split.
mircea_popescu: in other bases that don't so even split, this is not crypto-valuable because you would get induced lean.
asciilifeform: it ain't as if you're ever getting a prime from prime+prime, tho
mircea_popescu: really ?
asciilifeform: excluding 2
mircea_popescu: !~calc 1+2
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 1+2 = 3
asciilifeform: 2 ain't a real prime!1111!wasjustputtherebythegodstofuckus
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no but that's the point, base 10 is superbly built wrt primeness.
mircea_popescu: and in other ways and means, i just bought a pile of primo cigars, presidents and romeo y juliets and whatnot at this... cathouse, basically.
asciilifeform: hilariously, asciilifeform has a 'romeo&juliet' cigar tube from 1970s
asciilifeform: inherited from grandfather's 'weird shit from foreign lands' box
mircea_popescu: ha!
asciilifeform: 20 yrs ago it still had the smell. ( not today )
mircea_popescu: they're pretty good.
mircea_popescu: but yeah, should be smoked within the same decade they're rolled. tobacco dun exactly age in this extended sense
asciilifeform: oh it was empty tube
mircea_popescu: oh
mircea_popescu: lel. good for granpa then.
asciilifeform: but if thing tasted as good as the tube smelled!
asciilifeform believes
mircea_popescu: i suppose tube makes ok trainer dildo for 16yo debutante
mircea_popescu: "my first anal stretch"
asciilifeform: yea it is EXACTLY that shape
mircea_popescu: nooo ?
asciilifeform: aluminum thing
phf: asciilifeform: fyi they sell them within i suspect no more than half hour from you
mircea_popescu: they're not expensive either, two for a benjie or somesuch
asciilifeform: for some reason i thought there were no ( at least Officially ) cuban cigars in usa
mircea_popescu: didn't obama win the cigar nobel prize ?
asciilifeform: ( famously, kennedy bought entire railroad car right before signing the ban )
mircea_popescu: btw, i take it everyone has played knight's bounty ? as the crowning accomplishment of those eastern orc lands ?
asciilifeform has not
mircea_popescu: nfw ?!
phf: i suspect it postdates asciilifeform's gaming years
asciilifeform: it does
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's brother played it tho.
asciilifeform: so i know of it.
mircea_popescu: i thought he was older
asciilifeform: he is.
asciilifeform: but he dun have as many theorems.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716165 <-- I r confused. if 3 + 9 = 2 (+1 carry, because of primality of 3), then isn't the result 93?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-20 19:29 mircea_popescu: 763 mp+ 229 => 3 + 9 = 2 + 1 carry. 6 + 2 = 8 (+1 carry = 9) + 1 carry, 7 + 2 = 9 + 1 carry = 0 so finally = 92
mircea_popescu: spyked see lower down
mircea_popescu: o wait. why would it be 3 when 3 + 9 = 2 ?
spyked rereads the definition of mp prime-addition
mircea_popescu: in no case would the carry alter the current decimal level.
spyked: oh. confusion is resolved then
spyked: will have to work out a few more examples on paper.
mircea_popescu: can come up with a few mp-extended additions of your own, and for that money even formulate a general theory of addition extension in this sense,
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've been thinking about sending ffa , when finished, as an article into the saecular derps' 'cryptology journals', strictly for the lulz of getting their reject barf , and then posting, a la al schwartz
mircea_popescu: with the perhaps eventual result of actually producing a well grounded numeric-theoretic notion of what alf wanted, ie a fucking hash already
mircea_popescu: that's not made out of flour and spit like it's fucking africa.
asciilifeform: will be interesting if any reply, considering how the thing obsoletes half the idiocy they currently print
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this works splendidly for blog article imo
asciilifeform: well naturally whole thing is to be an article.
asciilifeform: ( really a lengthy .txt , but can be formatted however wanted )
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716177 <-- why 1? don't want to start a debate on that. dunno if debate was ever settled by mathematicians, but I learned in school that primes are strictly > 1☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-20 19:36 mircea_popescu: anyway, the above example of "alt-addition" is mostly based on the happenstance that in base 10, the set of digits that are also prime is {1,2, 3, 5, 7} and the set of digits that are not prime is {0, 4, 6, 8, 9} ie it just so happens to be a perfectly balanced split.
mircea_popescu: spyked "a prime number is one which is divisible by only itself and the meter".
mircea_popescu: 1 fits this, 0 does not.
spyked: mircea_popescu, yeha, but maths ppl I read/talked to "by convenience" define prime as "a number greater than 1 which is divisible ..." the reason escapes me. and as usual, online sources are shit.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if 1 gets to be a prime, you then throw out the conventional def of prime, because now you have a prime that divides other primes unequal to itself
asciilifeform: and this is only the beginning of the ugh
mircea_popescu: that's a subsidiary and unimportant property.
asciilifeform: ahahahahaha
mircea_popescu: the definition of prime is as quoted, what more is needed here ? 1 is divisible by only itself and the unit [of measure].
asciilifeform: how about the 'every int has unique prime factorization' item ?
mircea_popescu: it does. "unit terms are ignored"
asciilifeform: why not ignore by '1 ain't a prime', lol
mircea_popescu: because you gotta add the spit-fix at the right juncture.
asciilifeform: wtf is even the point of talking about primes if you ALWAYS gotta say 'but not 1'
mircea_popescu: hey.
mircea_popescu: your convenience is not my concern.
asciilifeform: go ahead an' bolt whatever you like to ~your~ kalash, hey.
asciilifeform: just don't be surprised when nobody else wants to.
mircea_popescu: alrighty then!!1
mircea_popescu: so far i'd be surprised if anyone seriouslty didn't want to ; the argument as presented seems sufficiently overabundant!
spyked: lulz!
mircea_popescu: heck, for the same money also exclude 2, and perhaps 3 because son of numbers previously hit by bill of numeric attainder.
mircea_popescu: "primes gotta have two digits"
lobbes: in other news, lobbesbotpocalypse is over. full details here: http://logs.minigame.bz/2017-09-20.log.html#t20:06:34
lobbes: I assume IP had to be banned. I'll leave it up to the court whether or not to unban. bot's only function here was quoting logs.minigame.bz anyhow
mircea_popescu: lobbes didja give the code a once over for the purpose of not ending up with this again ?
lobbes: I'm gonna look into shinohai's suggestion of checking the PID rather than grepping for name. Let's just leave it in #eulora for now and I'll get back once I dig deeper later tonight/this week
mircea_popescu: kk
lobbes: for the meantime, auctions will work over there an' such
mircea_popescu: aite.
trinque: eh lobbes that sounds really damned hairy.
lobbes: yeah
trinque: look into "runit"
trinque: grepping for logs to restart is nuts
mircea_popescu: runit pretty much looks by pid neh ?
trinque: no, it has a supervisor process that spawns your thing, monitors state, respawns if dead
trinque: and it's the lightest weight item that does so, that I've found
mircea_popescu: but "monitors state" by pid
trinque: sure, it knows the PID of its own child process
mircea_popescu: does it do moar monitoring than "is PID so and so still there" ?
trinque: nah, but gives you a logging facility and choice of what happens when child process is gone
trinque: which can be other than "thrash-loop until operator notices"
trinque: http://smarden.org/runit/runsv.8.html << stuff the supervisor does
lobbes reads
trinque: and sure, could bash script a loop that does exactly what you want, and then bash script your next service too. people do that. and then they generalize out the utils, and have a process manager of their own.
asciilifeform: hey trinque didja ever have time and write that piece re 'sane http replacement' ?
asciilifeform: from thread some month ago
trinque: it's on teh stack
asciilifeform: aite
trinque: been cranking on being able to cut transactions on an airgap machine with only trb+deps
asciilifeform: !!up apeloyee
deedbot: apeloyee voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: trinque: neato
lobbes: re this monitoring thing: seems like the key either way is to have a parent process that spawns the child process, rather than a disconnected process monitoring whatever
mircea_popescu: trinque no argument
mircea_popescu: lobbes yes, that'd be an improvement conceptually/
asciilifeform: apeloyee: ...hello?
trinque doesn't oppose a guy hand-carving his own thing at all, either.
apeloyee: asciilifeform: how about a "pediwikian bowdlerization of barrett" after all (don't truncate multiply results)? This would be simpler (but slower)
trinque: anyhow got payments bot to ship, which while running long is forcing me to develop sane processes around airgapped trb use
asciilifeform: apeloyee: please elaborate
trinque: then got the houston flood piece and hypertext-dht piece to write
mircea_popescu: trinque you ever saw "la zizanie", possibly de funes' best piece ?
asciilifeform: apeloyee: my principal problem with barrett is that i don't have a proof that it works with 3 or fewer corrective-subtractions for ALL possible a,b,m in a*b mod m
asciilifeform: of given bitness
trinque: mircea_popescu: haven't
apeloyee: asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Eu9Fd/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: tl;dr : guy is practically a gremlin, dedicated and ~meaningfully so~ industrialist, married to a credible "woman's job" a la francaise. they end up quarreling domestically when he destroys her greenhouse to extend his factory ; she runs for mayor against him (he used to own unopposed). his platform is "en premier place, le plein emploi ; en seconde, le plein emploi ; e finalment : LE PLEN EMPLOI!"
asciilifeform: ty apeloyee , i will read .
mircea_popescu: ie, his whole platform is "full employment".
mircea_popescu: teh republic built the man's dream!
trinque: heh, I will be sure to push that one onto the appropriate stack
trinque: republic's got all sorts of highly enjoyable work.
mircea_popescu: really great flick to watch with girl ; motivate her to learn french.
trinque: got one that speaks it, actually
trinque: so she can tutor me with it
mircea_popescu: then must do
apeloyee: asciilifeform: is it intended that ffa doesn't have a shift that doesn't leak the upper bits of shift amount (via access pattern)?
asciilifeform: apeloyee: shift amounts are not secret
asciilifeform: in any ffa routine
asciilifeform: they depend strictly on which op ( which is not secret ) and the ffawidth ( also not secret )
apeloyee: so far yes. have you given up on newton-raphson?
asciilifeform: apeloyee: yes because for guarantee of convergence you need MASSIVE ( afaik, at least 4x the ffawidth ) bitness
asciilifeform: apeloyee: what do you see as its advantage, vs barrett ?
asciilifeform: because as far as i can see, it has all of the same problems, but more so
apeloyee: you gotta compute the reciprocal for barrett's somehow.
asciilifeform: that's an ordinary knuthian div
asciilifeform: and it happens once per program boot
asciilifeform: ( when ffa width is determined )
apeloyee: per modulus?
asciilifeform: ah yeah per modulus
asciilifeform: still 1 knuthian div, vs the 8192 i have now (in the example)
asciilifeform: the cost of 1 knuthian div is negligible
apeloyee: true, but I thought you wanted a universally-fast reduction?
asciilifeform: ( and when we do rsa, can store the reciprocal in the key, there's no particular reason to compute it every time )
apeloyee: (fast even for fresh moduli)
asciilifeform: apeloyee: i want the fastest possible universal reduction that works in fixed spacetime and provably so
asciilifeform: if that's barrett, it'll be barrett. if it's knuthian, will be knuthian. if newtonian -- newtonian. in no case it will be montgomery, say, or any other non-universal one.
mircea_popescu: the stored reciprocal is actually a good idea.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: barrett's idea, notmine
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: incidentally if apeloyee or anybody else knows how to make a 1..ffabitness shifter that doesn't leak the shift amount, on ordinary pc, plz post.
asciilifeform: afaik this cannot be done without a physical barrel shifter of the given bitness.
asciilifeform: apeloyee: also if you know how to newton-raphson converge without ANY normalization ANYWHERE, plz to post.
asciilifeform: ( normalization LOOKS AT SECRET BITS and therefore is forbidden anywhere in ffa for any reason )
asciilifeform: if it can't be written down without any conditional (e.g. 'if' ) statements, and also -- for a given bitness -- unrolled into writing without ANY loops -- it is not permissible routine for ffa.
asciilifeform: re shifter, on second thought you COULD shift bitness-1 (e.g. 4095 ) times and then mux EVERY TIME YOU SHIFT but omfg.
asciilifeform: geological runtime.
asciilifeform: e.g., N is a number to shift, Q is shift amt, R is result, S = l_shift(N, 1); mux(S, R, R, iszero(Q - 1)); S = l_shift(N, 1); mux(S, R, R, iszero(Q - 2)); ...... mux(S, R, R, iszero(Q - (width-1)))
asciilifeform: fortunately we don't actually need any such thing in ffa. none of the algos require shifting by a seekrit bitness.
apeloyee: asciilifeform: and if you think a little more, you'll notice that log2(bitness) shifts (by wordwidth, wordwidth*2, wordwidth*4 ... ) and muxes suffice. http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/hkkYj/?raw=true
apeloyee: (assuming mux doesn't leak - who's to prevent intel from "optimizing" it?)
apeloyee: apologies for the sad parody of pseudocode.
asciilifeform: apeloyee: i'd be curious to hear how intel will 'optimize' xor.
asciilifeform: and holy fuck you are COUNTING ZEROES
apeloyee: why not?
asciilifeform: what part of 'can't branch on bits' was hard to understand ?
apeloyee: it doesn't.
asciilifeform reads again
mircea_popescu: this is pretty entertaining.
asciilifeform: this worx. but seems to reduce to a more complicated and non-unrolled version of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716343☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-20 21:54 asciilifeform: e.g., N is a number to shift, Q is shift amt, R is result, S = l_shift(N, 1); mux(S, R, R, iszero(Q - 1)); S = l_shift(N, 1); mux(S, R, R, iszero(Q - 2)); ...... mux(S, R, R, iszero(Q - (width-1)))
mircea_popescu: !!rated apeloyee
deedbot: mircea_popescu has not rated apeloyee.
mircea_popescu: !!rate apeloyee 1 Makes alf re-read.
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/LNTYv/?raw=true
asciilifeform: !!rated apeloyee
deedbot: asciilifeform rated apeloyee 1 at 2017/09/13 18:25:08 << barrett reductionist
asciilifeform: lol
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's good for you!
mircea_popescu: !!v E230A120EE824FE2D91331DA63D521238DC7DC2A1A66DEAB89CEE881798ABA92
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated apeloyee 1 << Makes alf re-read.
apeloyee: asciilifeform: the paste contains TWO procedures: CLZ and secret shift. together they solve the normalization problem
apeloyee: but they are separate things
asciilifeform: i can say immediately that if you 'secret shift' every time you want to modulus, you will take at least same number of steps as knuthian division.
asciilifeform: ( which likewise shifts for the entire bitness, every time )
apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716355 << yours is O(bitness), mine is O(log(bitness))☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-20 22:09 asciilifeform: this worx. but seems to reduce to a more complicated and non-unrolled version of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716343
apeloyee: shift i mean
apeloyee: CLZ is of course O(N)
asciilifeform: mine will also be log(bitness) if you shift(N, 1) , ... 2, ... 4 and mux appropriately, lol
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he squeezed a little juice out of the rock, check him out.
asciilifeform: aha massive points for effort
asciilifeform: this is still massively moar complicated than barrett
asciilifeform: even if you could newtoniate constantspacetimefully with it
asciilifeform: now you gotta normalize, denormalize, and proof that it cannot under any conceivable circumstance fail or take variant time
asciilifeform: *prove
asciilifeform: apeloyee: try and rewrite without the 'while' loop
asciilifeform brb, meat
BingoBoingo wonder what part of Chicom death knell is responsible for these fucking slow blocks
apeloyee: asciilifeform: which while loop? in CLZ or secretshift?
shinohai: !!up mafeketty
deedbot: mafeketty voiced for 30 minutes.
shinohai: mircea_popescu: are you available for
shinohai: !~tits
jhvh1: ( . Y . ) http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/ ( . Y . )
shinohai: ?
apeloyee: I don't understand how to do classical barrett without CLZ on modulus
apeloyee: hence I posted it. plus it'd be useful for newton (if fast division is deemed necessary for some as-yet-unknown reason)
apeloyee: while loop in secretshift does a number of iterations dependent only on ffa number width and word width, so can be unrolled if those are known
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 3944.91, vol: 10974.14178624 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 3954.1, vol: 30533.19374449 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 3840.525, vol: 931.28590000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 3950.0, vol: 4856.31920483 | Volume-weighted last average: 3949.31018391
mircea_popescu: shinohai sure.
mircea_popescu: nice intro lol.
shinohai: mircea_popescu: mafeketty wishes to be added to thy collection.
mircea_popescu: mafeketty b581b0a2 plox.
shinohai eagerly awaits these tits ....
mircea_popescu: are they good tits ?
apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716348 << from my Intel PR dept. emulator: "New Intel (R) NSAInside Energy saver(TM) processor technology optimizes your branchless code to avoid redundant operations delivering unparalled power savings..."☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-20 22:07 asciilifeform: apeloyee: i'd be curious to hear how intel will 'optimize' xor.
shinohai: I dunno, have not seen them yet
mircea_popescu: aite
shinohai: !!up mafeketty
deedbot: mafeketty voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716385 << while S1 < K☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-20 22:35 apeloyee: asciilifeform: which while loop? in CLZ or secretshift?
mafeketty: https://imgur./a/tY0I8
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716392 << i don't see what part of barrett wants to know leadingzero count☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-20 22:49 apeloyee: I don't understand how to do classical barrett without CLZ on modulus
shinohai: mafeketty: hiciste mal es asi: https://imgur.com/a/tYOI8
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716403 << by definition monkey business with instruction timings is ~detectable~. but the other idea is, a proper ffa is very easy to fpgaize/siliconize.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-20 23:05 apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716348 << from my Intel PR dept. emulator: "New Intel (R) NSAInside Energy saver(TM) processor technology optimizes your branchless code to avoid redundant operations delivering unparalled power savings..."
mircea_popescu: mafeketty there's nothing there.
shinohai figured it out
mafeketty: https://imgur.com/a/tY0I8
shinohai: mafeketty: olvidaste `.com`
shinohai: Are you trying to type these links by hand?
apeloyee: longmod procedure in linked pdf says "2^b < m <2^(b+1)" on page 9
mircea_popescu: a hey, there it is.
mircea_popescu: mafeketty address ?
mafeketty: https://imgur.com/a/tYOI8
mircea_popescu: mafeketty yes, that part is fine. now, where do you want the bitcents sent ? what's your bitcoin address ?
mircea_popescu: shinohai considering how bubbly she looks in her pics, she's shockingly quiet verbally huh ?
mafeketty: preguntale shinohai mi direccion de bitcoin
shinohai: She is typing all this shit manually .... keeps sending me messages lol
shinohai: mircea_popescu: 136w5Goh345kTdhTUDDzh3jBUiCFHM3hTn
mircea_popescu: well, just as long as she doesn't get dropped.
shinohai: appears to be it. I told her you are not responsible if it goes to bad addy
mircea_popescu: mafeketty is that right ? 136w5Goh345kTdhTUDDzh3jBUiCFHM3hTn esta correcto ?
mircea_popescu: shinohai how would you know ?
shinohai: I have a pic of her wallet! lol
shinohai: xd
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: mafeketty yo hablo espanol tambien, no se verguenzosa.
mafeketty: si mircea_popescu
shinohai: Mandame fotos de tu llaves privados, por favor
mircea_popescu: ahaha shut up
mircea_popescu: mafeketty ok, te los mando. tarde un poco pero los va tener hoy.
mafeketty: gracias
mafeketty: muchas gracias amor
shinohai: This has to be one of the most entertaining times I have ever translated en private.
mircea_popescu: lol whyssat ?
shinohai: First she sent me an email, saying one of her friends did this, and thought it was a scam.
mircea_popescu: oh ?
shinohai: Then I spent 15 minutes teaching her how to use irc
shinohai: and also assuring her it wasnt a scam
mircea_popescu: aha
shinohai: "Well I see a lot of chicas ispanas there, so it must be legit" (translation mine)
mircea_popescu: i imagine it must be pretty confusing, this brave new world.
mircea_popescu: yeah, no chinese girl as of yet huh.
shinohai: Get this, kiwi irc is blocked in her section of the country
mircea_popescu: eh ?!
mircea_popescu: what country is this
shinohai: Colombia ... one of my other contacts gave her my email
mircea_popescu: i'm guessing further cloudflare shenanigans ?
shinohai: Likely ... when I sent her to plain web.freenode.net it worked fine
shinohai: Guess I need to stand my old self kiwi instance back up
mircea_popescu: ya
shinohai: Now the Lord Baron Titsbare, because he feels bad for some random chick in 3rd world country, has to spend the next hour or so explaining how Bitcoin works to n00b.
shinohai: The things I do for this Republic
mircea_popescu: kik
shinohai: But thank you mircea_popescu ... she may yet turn out to be yet another valuable contact I have met through your programme
mircea_popescu: lol. you ever been to colombia even ?
asciilifeform: !~later tell apeloyee http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716422 << this is what i've been trying to figure out re barrett : can it be made to work for ARBITRARY inputs , in constant spacetime☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-20 23:12 apeloyee: longmod procedure in linked pdf says "2^b < m <2^(b+1)" on page 9
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
shinohai: On advice from our esteemed Lordship, I only went to Alfonso Bonilla airport in Cali to pick up the Baroness ...
mircea_popescu: o hey, you actually got a local gf out of the deal ?
shinohai: Remember?
mircea_popescu: dude THE THINGS YOU DO FOR THE REPUBLIC!
shinohai: http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/ilasxve.png
shinohai: ^ that one
mircea_popescu: pretty girl at that
mircea_popescu: so she's been what, live in columbian gf for a few months nao ?
shinohai: She came after we first met here, went back, then came back abt 2 months ago
mircea_popescu: phf i hope you're taking notes lol
mircea_popescu: shinohai so does she work ? or is it more like domestic slavery arrangement ?
mircea_popescu: o wait, i forgot. it is against the law in the united states for human female to work ie not be domestic slave.
shinohai: Well, it is domestic slavery as much as she is not bound under usistan law ... only has travel visa
ben_vulpes: wait i thought it was against the law for human female to be a domestic slave
shinohai: Fuck the police
ben_vulpes: labor pool must be as full of meat as possible, families kept in poverty paying for childcare
shinohai: She had heard horror stories of life under Trumpreich and was afraid to return this last time
shinohai: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: shinohai: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 3893.0, vol: 11511.21386026 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 3903.9, vol: 32882.02535143 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 3805.1522, vol: 953.12170000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 3894.1, vol: 4783.74595599 | Volume-weighted last average: 3898.58439967
shinohai: So evidently 0.02 BTC = ~215`000 COP now
mircea_popescu: nb.
mircea_popescu: shinohai perhaps point out to her that
mircea_popescu: !~translate en to es "She had heard horror stories of life under Trumpreich and was afraid to return this last t"
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Había oído historias de terror de la vida bajo Trumpreich y tenía miedo de devolver esta última
shinohai: TErrible translation
mircea_popescu: not so terrible is it ?
mircea_popescu: what'd you prefer, "vida sobre la opresion de trump" ?
shinohai: Ella habia escuchado la historia de vida bajo el Trumpreich y tenia miedo regresar
mircea_popescu: historias!
shinohai: oido = an actual sound
shinohai: escuchar = gossip
mircea_popescu: stylistically defensible!
mod6: evenin'
asciilifeform: ohai mod6
shinohai: hola mod6 que hay de bueno
mod6: :] nm.
mod6: nice work with the tits & help thereof.