log
260 entries in 0.578s
a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 23:09 asciilifeform: incidentally, even a very brief look at the 1801 item confirms the troof of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896836 -- thing defo aint a 'and here is where the ameri-crystal does x' , it's a quite 'fits-in-head' object , very evidently produced from page-long spec of the orig instruction set
spyked: re ffi, in that older research I've tried to avoid fast-running code in favour of fits-in-head, but I'll make sure to double-check in this iteration. the only www-related cffi dependency I recall was in cl+ssl, which I will remove on sight before genesis
asciilifeform: incidentally, even a very brief look at the 1801 item confirms the troof of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896836 -- thing defo aint a 'and here is where the ameri-crystal does x' , it's a quite 'fits-in-head' object , very evidently produced from page-long spec of the orig instruction set ☝︎☟︎
bvt: OriansJ in #bootstrappable has a notion of hygiene (at least basic, ie groks fits-in-head), and still works on the stage0; i had no interaction with janneke (mes author) yet, so can't make claims about him. he does make some noise in the #bootstrappable and #guix
asciilifeform: the forth-like notation admittedly requires some practice, for the unprepared ; but the win from it is a fits-in-head interpreter ( ch.17 -- 1024 ln; ch.18 , with subroutines , currently writing the docs -- 1516 , and not expected to ever grow much )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: eat it as fast as comfortably fits in head but no faster.
asciilifeform: all of these folx, afaik, do ~exact same thing, they take the school cpu from their kindergarten textbook and proclaim 'hey this fits in head, let's bootstrap on it'
asciilifeform: picture if i had made ffa deal in 32bit words, and then proclaimed 'implement bignum on that'. do you imagine the result would be in any sense 'fits in head' ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: imho half of 'fits in head' is specifically ~refraining~ from gilding the lilies that dun need gilding.
asciilifeform: constanttimeized stein's o(n^2) gcd ( http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2963 ) is not only imho fast enuff (even a magical 100fold speedup in it, would not affect speed of rsa key gen measurably , consider above ) but fits-in-head and has no error terms.
asciilifeform: i find it hard to picture how a sane cpu, where optimizing compiler is 10k loc and 'fits in head', could have no market. but then again the bolix people proved that it ~is~ possible to go broke with one.
asciilifeform: ( afaik the last 'fits-in-head' kernel was 1.sumthing... )
asciilifeform: ffa in particular is intended as , among other things, a didactic demonstration of what means 'fits-in-head'.
verisimilitude: Sure; my system I have in mind to make as perfect as I can certainly fits in a normal-sized head, or should.
a111: 74 results for "fits-in-head", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=fits-in-head
asciilifeform: !#s fits-in-head
asciilifeform: diana_coman: it is in principle possible to write 'fits in head' c proggy, but afaik the last who knew how was d. ritchie..
bvt: myeah, complexity does not go too well with both constant-time and fits-in-head.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-28 20:35 asciilifeform: diana_coman: sadly i do not know how to 'guarantee perfection'. all i know how to do is to bake maximally 'fits in head' and bank that the folx here will find mistake if it turns out that i made one.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: sadly i do not know how to 'guarantee perfection'. all i know how to do is to bake maximally 'fits in head' and bank that the folx here will find mistake if it turns out that i made one. ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-21 18:28 asciilifeform: all i particularly care for in re scripting is to obtain a replacement for perl/python/bash where the interpreter is simple (i.e. readable, fits-in-head, auditable, correct)
asciilifeform: the attribute which permits this approach, vs haskellism and other idolatrous rituals to mechanical molloch, is called 'fits in head'.
asciilifeform: not fits in head ? not proven. ( i did not say ~whose~ head, but imho safe to suppose that whole f# microshitiana garbage pail fits in no head )
asciilifeform: proof is proof when it fits in head, now just as in euclid's time.
asciilifeform: and 'how not to crypto', pretty good illustration of the tension between 'machine proofs' and 'fits in head' (author resolved wholly in favour of the former and took a tall shit on the latter)
asciilifeform: and 'fits in head' demands fit-in-page-preserving-indentation.
asciilifeform: and if anyone can think of a shorter one that still 'fits in head', plox to post, and i'ma link to it.
asciilifeform: so to return to orig q , imho 'job of physicist' is 1st, and above all, to work so that 'physics' ~fits in head~ and thereby remains a legitimate item.
BingoBoingo: Thankfully much of Montevideo fits in head
a111: Logged on 2018-08-21 18:28 asciilifeform: all i particularly care for in re scripting is to obtain a replacement for perl/python/bash where the interpreter is simple (i.e. readable, fits-in-head, auditable, correct)
asciilifeform: all i particularly care for in re scripting is to obtain a replacement for perl/python/bash where the interpreter is simple (i.e. readable, fits-in-head, auditable, correct) ☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: 1 well-understood system 'to rule'em all', fits in head and demonstrably bug-free , and babel -- ends.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-22#1828567 << ideally would be the smallest working 'fits in head' lisp, no frills ( no gc, etc ) ☝︎
asciilifeform: Mocky: not merely this. there is also a set of human-enforced conventions re: 'fits-in-head' of any proposed change.
phf: i can obviously fix btcbase to be more useful (i.e. continue to aid the patch exploration) in cases where a patch is big, but in general a 9mb patch seems to go against the whole fits in head
a111: Logged on 2018-05-01 14:59 trinque: and in service to fits-in-head
trinque: and in service to fits-in-head ☟︎
asciilifeform: spyked: i dun have anything against mechanical proof per se; but it is NOT a substitute for fits-in-head, because there is nor cannot be any such substitute. and the mass of the theorem-verifier is to be included with the mass of the program, for the purpose of 'is this head-fittable'. but possibly i repeat old thread.
asciilifeform: in any case fits-in-head MUST come ahead of 'proofiness'.
a111: 219 results for "fits in head", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=fits%20in%20head
asciilifeform: !#s fits in head
asciilifeform: but i have a somewhat different approach, which i call 'fits in head'
asciilifeform: i do not have anything against mechanized proof per se. but in practice it is in ~100% of published cases used as an attempted 'i can't believe it's not self-evident correctness!' margarinesque substitute for fits-in-head.
mod6: one file, != fits in head
caaddr: I wonder how early in such a stack you would add the kind of compile time protections that ada guarantees. compile time protections seem to be the hardest thing to keep a programming language at "fits in head" size
mircea_popescu: the strong statement here is that the ~only~ possible identity bits of code have is based on ~personal memory~. to revisit the oft used bubblesort example -- any particular implementation of bubblesort IS bubblesort because ~you~ recognize it as such and for ~no other reason~, factual ~or possible~. consequently fits in head as the basis of code identity.
asciilifeform: thing is, a sparkism is not a substitute for a 'fits-in-head'-correct routine.
asciilifeform: or for that matter, usable maxwell. ( modern electronic design uses a narrowly restricted, i.e. sorta-fits-in-head special form of maxwell )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: one of asciilifeform's persistent crackpotteries, is to reforge this sword. i.e. make comp that fits in kid head .
mod6: I had started a new V in Ada, had to stick it in the drawer for a while. Not getting to exactly where I wanted to go (easy to read, fits in head, no perl/perlisms) with it at this time.
phf: right, i think perhaps the problem of this particular turn of phrase, is that he can't actually name what makes him a better than average programmer (like ascii's fits in head, or Principles, or), so he's reduced to a shortcut that is insufficient
phf: apparently he also argues for fits in head as the only proper measure elsewhere, but i can't find the source of quote (possibly person who implied it is a log reader, and just reused the variety speak)
asciilifeform: but there are already plenty of haskellists writing nonsense. asciilifeform wanted an actually usable fits-in-head item.
asciilifeform: and if i were a haskellist and writing with an eye toward ~machine~ proof, rather than fits-in-head, i probably would have written one.
mircea_popescu: "fits in head".
a111: 132 results for "fits in head", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=fits%20in%20head
asciilifeform: !#s fits in head
asciilifeform: it however is a gangrene that will grow ANYWHERE where fits-in-head is not an iron principle.
asciilifeform: i'm concerned with 1) timing leak 2) fits-in head --- strictly.
asciilifeform: it does not fit in my head, and i am not convinced that the folx who claim that it fits into theirs, ain't lying
mircea_popescu: so then if joe claims the "Streamlined" rsa fits in his head, what do you do ?
asciilifeform: a proper fits-in-head item fits in the literate man's head.
asciilifeform: i can state with confidence that kochiana fits in NO head
mircea_popescu: how do you judge what fits in another's head ?
asciilifeform: i'd like it not to be lost upstack, so will restate ftr : a 'optimized' rsa that no longer fits in head and is no longer demonstrably-correct , ( and worse yet, no longer operates branch-free ) is NOT RSA and is simply a turd being fraudulently passed off as the genuine article
asciilifeform: the process is 'must fit in head'. for so long as item fits in head, it is demonstrably solving the stated problem ( which, unsurprisingly, must also fit in head as a statement )
a111: 123 results for "fits in head", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=fits%20in%20head
asciilifeform: !#s fits in head
a111: 121 results for "fits in head", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=fits%20in%20head
asciilifeform: !#s fits in head
asciilifeform: #!s fits in head
shinohai: This is why we have asciilifeform 's "fits in head" (tm) (r) (tmsr)
spyked: valentinbuza, maybe not, but then if you have everything loaded in head, the most you can do is rip the useless parts apart and leave *only* what fits into the problem at hand. which turns "framework" into "item that solves particular problem". it is essential to not leave *anything else* there.
mircea_popescu: re http://thetarpit.org/posts/y03/04e-the-myth-of-software-engineering-iii.html << hjere's the thing, let's posit that an object larger than what fits in head can not exist. this may seem counterintuitive, but it happens to also be correct. now, the direct solution to the problems of "exponential dependencies" and "clarity of purpose" and so on is that these have to be defined by domain boundaries. once you have this implemen
asciilifeform: spyked: ever heard of 'fits in head' concept ?
mircea_popescu: what fits in head depends also on the structuring of the head.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 05:13 erlehmann: i use GNU unifont wherever i can. fits in head.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> which, btw, imho is intrinsically unsuitable for a fits-in-head rsatron, it is extremely gnarly and uses float approximations that get magically unfudged back to int, etc << ugh. right.
asciilifeform: which, btw, imho is intrinsically unsuitable for a fits-in-head rsatron, it is extremely gnarly and uses float approximations that get magically unfudged back to int, etc
erlehmann: i use GNU unifont wherever i can. fits in head. ☟︎
asciilifeform: aka fits-in-head.
asciilifeform: FIRST you write the fits-in-head minimal ffa-like thing. THEN you spark.
mod6: head-fits-in-ass
asciilifeform: ( and -- fits-in-head !! )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: except that the monster lang never fits in any head.
mircea_popescu: FITS IN HEAD MOTHERFUCKER
phf: that's a tricky request, but the tenets are around shitlangs differentiation, "fits in head", v as a way of releasing code, what it means to own a piece of technology. there's a handful of threads that had definitive conclusions, that i consider tenets (i think the word should be in quotes to indicate that while not true tenets, violating them will require reopening large threads)
asciilifeform: because it is a ludicrous proposition -- massive ball of shit, that makes gcc look compact and fits-in-head.
mircea_popescu: fits in head has bene-fits
erlehmann: asciilifeform what do you use as shell? i use rc shell, because grammar fits in head (actually, grammar is written on man page).
asciilifeform: but they are not a replacement for Fits In Head
asciilifeform: but married to x86, and certainly not fits-in-head.
mircea_popescu: but this phenomenon exists whereby girl ends up in trouble for reasons which, upon later examination, turn out to not actually exist. that the whole thing was actually a misunderstanding is proof positive the entire system fits in no one's head : not in mine, who misunderstood what was going on, not in the girl;s herself, who, confronted with the misunderstanding, failed to identify what to say to dispel it.
asciilifeform: in this case, correctness & fits-in-head.
asciilifeform: thing is optimized for -- strictly -- constant (always-worst-case) time and space usage; and fits-in-head (in that order)
lobbes: But re: fits in head. Isn't phf's/alfs argument that you cannot really even audit said generalized glue?
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-10#1641431 << that this is wrong, and letting data access patterns ~between distinct algorithmic components of your system~ be built in ad-hoc manner destroys fits-in-head for the entire system ☝︎
trinque: I'll close with the observation that asciilifeform's "fits in head" serves "build to iterate and throw away" very well.
phf: well, presumably all this only applies when you have fits in head. otherwise you have to fallback to counterparty
phf: we were comming from the direction of debian on 10 cds though, so restating my original point: i think bootstrapping can be solved with counterparty as an alternative to fits in head, i.e. i don't mind an approach where in order to bootstrap i get a binary from l1, that i use as a rich subtrate from which i can bootstrap.