a111: Logged on 2019-03-25 16:51 hanbot: nope, fuck me, still broken. i'm going to have to regrind again, meanwhile i have meattasks in town. this'll be done today.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile on topics of "usg, the latest socialism", i very warmly recommend kennan's 1947 sources of soviet conduct.
mircea_popescu: "Now it lies in the nature of the mental world of the Soviet leaders, as well as in the character of their ideology, that no opposition to them can be officially recognized as having any merit or justification whatsoever. Such opposition can flow, in theory, only from the hostile and incorrigible forces of [???]"
mircea_popescu: "On the principle of infallibility there rests the iron discipline of the Communist Party. In fact, the two concepts are mutually self-supporting. Perfect discipline requires recognition of infallibility. Infallibility requires the observance of discipline. And the two go far to determine the behaviorism of the entire Soviet apparatus of power. But their effect cannot be understood unless a third factor be taken into accou
mircea_popescu: nt: namely, the fact that the leadership is at liberty to put forward for tactical purposes any particular thesis which it finds useful to the cause at any particular moment and to require the faithful and unquestioning acceptance of that thesis by the members of the movement as a whole. This means that truth is not a constant but is actually created, for all intents and purposes, by the Soviet leaders themselves. It may v
☟︎ mircea_popescu: ary from week to week, from month to month. It is nothing absolute and immutable -- nothing which flows from objective reality. It is only the most recent manifestation of the wisdom of those in whom the ultimate wisdom is supposed to reside, because they represent the logic of history. The accumulative effect of these factors is to give to the whole subordinate apparatus of Soviet power [
http://trilema.com/2016/and-they-w mircea_popescu: ont-fucking-yield/][an unshakable stubbornness and steadfastness] in its orientation. This orientation can be changed at will by the Kremlin but by no other power. Once a given party line has been laid down on a given issue of current policy, the whole Soviet governmental machine, including the mechanism of diplomacy, moves inexorably along the prescribed path, like a persistent toy automobile wound up and headed in a give
mircea_popescu: n direction, stopping only when it meets with some unanswerable force. The individuals who are the components of this machine are unamenable to argument or reason, which comes to them from outside sources. Their whole training has taught them to mistrust and discount the glib persuasiveness of the outside world.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: Like the white dog before the phonograph, they hear only the "master's voice." And if they are to be called off from the purposes last dictated to them, it is the master who must call them off." Thus the foreign representative cannot hope that his words will make any impression on them. The most that he can hope is that they will be transmitted to those at the top, who are capable of changing the party line. But even those
mircea_popescu: are not likely to be swayed by any normal logic in the words of the bourgeois representative. Since there can be no appeal to common purposes, there can be no appeal to common mental approaches.
mircea_popescu: "The present generation of Russians have never known spontaneity of collective action. If, consequently, anything were ever to occur to disrupt the unity and efficacy of the Party as a political instrument, Soviet Russia might be changed overnight from one of the strongest to one of the weakest and most pitiable of national societies."
☟︎ phf: nginx knows how to cache items properly, but backend doesn't send proper headers yet, to indicate invalidation. there's really no reason anything in btcbase/patches needs to rerender itself everytime, but the relevant bits are not in place.
BingoBoingo: In discoveries, Spain has a pantsuitist party named "Podemos"
mircea_popescu: phf, on the other hand, re-rendering is not ~that~ expensive for text.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-26 08:58 mircea_popescu: nt: namely, the fact that the leadership is at liberty to put forward for tactical purposes any particular thesis which it finds useful to the cause at any particular moment and to require the faithful and unquestioning acceptance of that thesis by the members of the movement as a whole. This means that truth is not a constant but is actually created, for all intents and purposes, by the Soviet leaders themselves. It may v
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 23:10 mircea_popescu: kanzure " Obviously there is no possiblity of meaning outside of a structure of authority, and the authority can not be predicated on the meaning."
a111: Logged on 2019-03-26 08:58 mircea_popescu: n direction, stopping only when it meets with some unanswerable force. The individuals who are the components of this machine are unamenable to argument or reason, which comes to them from outside sources. Their whole training has taught them to mistrust and discount the glib persuasiveness of the outside world.
a111: Logged on 2014-08-12 02:19 TimSwanson: Because that's how normal debates work
a111: Logged on 2019-03-26 09:18 mircea_popescu: "The present generation of Russians have never known spontaneity of collective action. If, consequently, anything were ever to occur to disrupt the unity and efficacy of the Party as a political instrument, Soviet Russia might be changed overnight from one of the strongest to one of the weakest and most pitiable of national societies."
mircea_popescu: he was factually very influential "russian blue expert for to explain to american red how does the blue relate to me"
BingoBoingo: I got the plata back. Picking up different beefier machine tomorrow from a vendor in centro.
mircea_popescu: i don;t have a very clear view of patton ; but churchill is exactly as much a socialist as the whole temperance movement. he was unequivocally identified as such by ~all contemporaries, what, just because dumb soviet kid never heard of churchill other than for one newspaper notice dated 1945 this means something ? by the time hitler came to power churchill had been an openly socialist politician for a decade+
mircea_popescu: so i dunno that there's a substantial difference, ideologically, between kennan and churchill.
mircea_popescu: the latter's a little more fopish and sophisticated, but then again the former's born in whichever unknown swamp amidst our colonies.
mircea_popescu: in the words of their national anthem, "he puts a feather in his cap and calls it macaroni"
mircea_popescu: (likbez : as grand tours became popularized, in the interim before cook's mass commercialization thereof, a lot of 2nd hand british elite kids were exposed to italian fashion and atmosphere ; gained an appreciation of aforeunknown pasta, ie maccaroni, and started a whole epicene fashion including ridiculous dress and assorted faggotry.
mircea_popescu: poor but stupid yankee kids, hearing of something in that vein, imagined the ~same can be obtained not only very cheaply, but importantly using only items accessible -- the only enduring ideology of that place. and so... the yankee is moronic enough to act as if a feather suffices to be 2nd line english elite.)
mircea_popescu: i dunno why don't they just put the "fuel economy magnets" people in congress directly. properly speaking, there's no other substance to "america".
mircea_popescu: apparently idiots don't get names, they get collapsed into the tree of their stupidities.
mircea_popescu: (they're prolly trying to get into costa rica illegally, as nobody here can distinguiush nicas and mexicans. but anyway)
bvt: hello. i did not manage to finish work on mes report part 2 last week, and i don't have a possibility to do any work this week. i plan to finish it around weekend next week.
bvt: linux bootstrap with actual mes is way more disappointingto stage0 components (the claim is 'c compiler is scheme and scheme interpreter in c', but in fact they require bash, patch, tar, etc. for the bootstrap).
mircea_popescu: bvt, did you identify any live ones among the authors/participants ?
a111: 2017-10-19 <erlehmann> good night
bvt: OriansJ in #bootstrappable has a notion of hygiene (at least basic, ie groks fits-in-head), and still works on the stage0; i had no interaction with janneke (mes author) yet, so can't make claims about him. he does make some noise in the #bootstrappable and #guix
bvt: asciilifeform: they claim that it is work-in-progress, but in fact c compiler that manages to compile tcc may be less then 10% of required work.
bvt: i also don't like how at the 'mes' stage a linux kernel 'magically' appears as the underlying substrape, while stage0 parts are designed to work without os
mircea_popescu: moreover, i dunno of any well working bootstrappers for whatever embedded / mircro / whatever you take application that actually bootstraps on c
mircea_popescu: i suspect though the earlier discussion of "what do we want for a scripting language" is deeply if unobviously related to "what is bootstrap done by"
mircea_popescu: bvt, so put the matter to him plainly, "look, the republic is considering this, either come over and make your case or what d oyou want to do" ?
☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: but look how it mirrors what we want from a putative tmsr.php or tmsr.xml or tmsr.tcl or w.e!
mircea_popescu: and it ~might~ even be a candidate bootstrap language.
mircea_popescu: that's in fact one of the few parts where the historical constraint bears no relevancy today.
mircea_popescu: i didn't mean the code, i meant the ram it needs to function.
bvt: asciilifeform: yes, ending up with the same gnu stuff is pretty sad work result
mircea_popescu: there's no hard and fast requirement that the bootstrapper needs to use less than the full system memory, which is mb in any case.
mircea_popescu: ie, being economical re bootstrap ram is one of the dumbest things i can think of. beats "penny wise and pound foolish" by 2+ degrees of magnitude in folly.
mircea_popescu: it's not directly obvious to me that "random access" in this particular context is not disease sympthom.
mircea_popescu: i'm not disposing of the matter. i'm just keeping it open, and specifically because these sorts of things are by now reflex in the malfunctioning brains of "it experts". oh, small ram footprint of bootstrapper. oh, random access.\
mircea_popescu will import by reference the story of mel. what "random access", it's onlty random if you don't know what you're doing and at bootstrap phase the item's too close to starting position to have complexity-exploded out of your hands already as a matter of necessity.
mircea_popescu: the dood's historical blackjack playing program is a better model of "bootstrapper" than what you find in average "systems design" in orclang books.
mircea_popescu: but in any case no such thing as "random" exists in the fucking machine --- if it did, you wouldn't need to buy fg's for it, now would you.
mircea_popescu: obviously (i would hope) i'm not proposing any naive solution will necessarily work well ; i'm just saying that it's not obvious to me a smart solution isn't available somewhere. in point of fact not merely p, but ~the whole class of things for which it stands as a most illustrative example~ is, if arguably not new, in any case the continuation of work in fields and along lines neglected for at least three if not more than
mircea_popescu: yes, it is, translates bizarre pantsuit notions of "randomness" ; nevertheless the point stands if renamed : arbitrary, and who's the arbiter ? Nike the goddess ?
bvt: mircea_popescu: i'll try to get him into #trilema on the weekend
mircea_popescu: because no, this is a cop-out, "oh, it's arbitrary". like the poorly trained cook, "arbitrary use of tools"
mircea_popescu: but we are very specifically not discussing what to do to read trilema. we're discussing what to do at a relatively early stage of bootstrap!
mircea_popescu: (note also, but importantly, that one doesn't have to write peh by hand anymore than he has to write asm by hand. there's perfectly conceivable one has an optimizing pehpiler.)
mircea_popescu: but consider the converse problem : if it comes to it, am i going to order the re-implementation de novo of gcc's backend by republican hands ? why MUST it be c ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, yes! in the other perspective : BECAUSE IT IS ITS OWN BOOTSTRAPPER!!!
mircea_popescu: if peh can be its own bootstrapper quite so transparently nobody notices, then maybe it is actually a good general purpose bootstrapping tool. maybe.
mircea_popescu: in any case, a very tentative possible repoublican alternate machine can be already intuited : if p backend is welded to gcc;s frontends, one can code in ada (or c#, why not), compiler for p-machine and live happily ever after.
mircea_popescu: "oh but mp, this is undemocratic -- some programming styles or high level assumptions will result in ~unusable tapes, 1mnx bloated". "precisely." "but this means not all programmers aree equal anymore". "duh"
mircea_popescu: yet -- if it works as a bootstrapper it works as a bootstrapper ; and if it does not we understand why and wherefore.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-18 15:31 asciilifeform:
http://bvt-trace.net/2019/03/mes-part-1-stage0/#selection-29.94-29.340 << imho ~100% of the attempts on record , made exactly same mistake -- they assumed that 'architecture-specific aspects creep into the design of the boostrapping process' only concerns ~what is there~ in the arch, and not ~what is not there~ (e.g. sane memory management, type tags) . if you dun put the complexity of certain necessary sanities where it belongs -- i
a111: Logged on 2014-08-20 01:01 asciilifeform: '…like a refugee from very rural Pakistan who gets relocated to Oslo, Norway, and still thinks that he could make better food if he were only allowed to light a fire in his living room instead of using that complex electric stove. (This is a real news item. Every now and then, landlords discover indoor fireplaces and occasionally the “newbies” to civilization burn down the building.)' (herr naggum)
a111: Logged on 2019-01-13 14:29 mircea_popescu: this is a matter of best practices that's by its nature a republican standard candidate, so i'd very much like to hear the esteemed lordship.
mircea_popescu: in another order : an ada prototype for db interaction, at the very least with mysql and postgres, would probably get imported into a lot of projects. anyone has one unpublished ? anyone wanna write ?
mircea_popescu: but in point of fact we gotta weld ada to db already, what.
diana_coman: if it's about wants, I can throw in that I want a sane computer already!
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2018-11-15 02:29 asciilifeform: phuctor ( and in particular, some of the 'heavier' / unusual pheatures, like search ) i baked specifically around postgres.
mircea_popescu: no argument there ; also so far, let's just first get a wrapper.
mircea_popescu: might tbe a better route, esp if it delivers a cheap way to a tcp-based republican web, to replace the www.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-26 21:18 diana_coman: if it's about wants, I can throw in that I want a sane computer already!
mod6: mircea_popescu: ack