a111: Logged on 2017-05-21 00:47 asciilifeform: in other sads, it turns out that paul g. comba ( of comba's multiplication algo ) died in april.
shinohai: btw mod6 .... I failed with the Ada/Gentoo thing the other night. Back to reading I suppose.
shinohai: I can't get a workable env going .... using gcc version 4.9.4 (Gentoo 4.9.4 p1.0, pie-0.6.4)
shinohai: Ah there is my issue apparently ... I needed to prefix USE=bootstrap
trinque: this guy right here, shit you not, tells deedbot:
ag3nt_zer0: I am always peeking from time to time for reassurance hehe
trinque: you don't get off so easy!
ben_vulpes: allow me to reassure you, ag3nt_zer0, you *can* still curl2sudo!
trinque: I resisted the urge to troll him that hard
trinque: "oh gotta update your gpg, here"
ben_vulpes: what are the lolz of the day ag3nt_zer0
ag3nt_zer0: haha well alot moved around since last I was here... we had that whole brexit trump pepe chaos magik thing
ag3nt_zer0: I went on an pretty long trip - 8 mos mexico, colombia, peru, thailand
ag3nt_zer0: just got back a while ago and working my ass off to buy btc before it fulfills what appears to be its destiny of 1 trillion dollars/coin
trinque: the place has been on my radar for a while; I've got a meatwot guy there
ag3nt_zer0: i should say it was my first "world trip" so I dont have much to compare it to and was really just enjoying the otherness of it all... the food was fucking incredible and the people were mostly very nice... said hi to me as I walked past them on the street which I guess qualifies as "very nice" in pharmaceutically feminist america
ag3nt_zer0: I really enjoyed the temples everywhere
ag3nt_zer0: Chiang Rai is very nice superior to Chiang Mai imo, smaller, cleaner, up in the hills a bit more
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: what'd a month cost you there?
ag3nt_zer0: what i mean is that people are on drugs and feminism
ag3nt_zer0: could have a small home outside of town for 0.116376 btc/mo
ag3nt_zer0: and noodles and veggies and some meatz
ag3nt_zer0: dropped my little aged porn star potbelly and all fat over there though with no bread and cheese
mod6: <+shinohai> Ah there is my issue apparently ... I needed to prefix USE=bootstrap << thanks for reporting and working through your probs on this in here -- this will probably help someone in the future.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-13 22:37 asciilifeform: end result is to be a vaguely msdos-like thing that understands how to configure x64 page table, put/get blocks of disk, and speak over rs232 port. and on top of this, a self-building gnat.
mod6: yeah, it's liquishit. for sure.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-06 00:42 ben_vulpes: oh christ xorg needs gcc5 now?
mod6: hmm, i dunno about that, following danielpbarron's instructions i was able to get X built with gcc4. but yah, it's all shit.
trinque: hey, gnat just hauled in *6*
trinque: the latest and therefore best!!11!!!11
trinque: was actually going to ask if you had a vintage
trinque: whichever one doesn't scorn gcc4 I suppose.
trinque: dev-lang/gnat-gpl-2017 << this demanded gcc6
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i lolled at the pantsuits using the fucking word, all casual like.
mircea_popescu: you know, like fat girl everyone calls piggy trying to use "piggy" in conversation.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> so i take it 0 fat folx. << 0 tall chicks with nice udders, either.
mircea_popescu: wtf is the point even sticking it into her if she can't show 2-3lbs of tit upfront.
mircea_popescu tried recently, literally felt like was fucking a little boy. ew.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> ( moar-threads-than-cpus is fundamentally a lie to the operator ) << 'i can't believe it's not cpu' aha.
mircea_popescu: then "masking" and then of course "non maskable" and etc. when that happens you know you fucked up the design
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: betcha you can't build an x that will draw on any card you can buy in a store nao, without 5+ << yeah, any proper graphics card. std intel card tho.
mod6: asciilifeform: yeah, i agree though. having all kinds of background things running and the kernel off doing who knows what is unwanted.
mod6: i dunno, im pretty sure i used gcc4 to build x on this box. o.O
mod6: <+trinque> I'll try that one instead << let me know if it "works" for ya
mircea_popescu: hey listen sina, wanna go with me through the fhf spec and make final version ?
a111: Logged on 2017-06-29 20:38 mircea_popescu: was next step but sina moved to gossipding
sina: ahh you took the words out of my mouth!
sina: mircea_popescu: sure. happy to. FWIW, I kept README.md in my python repo updated with the spec as our discussions went on
mircea_popescu: cool. read the article, make list of what you think needs changed
sina: but there are definitely one or two additional refinements
sina: ben_vulpes: around?
a111: Logged on 2017-06-29 21:39 mircea_popescu: in the end the circling will always come to the same square : do you wish to live long, or do you wish to live well.
sina: asciilifeform: wondering if you took a look at my revised gossipthing by any chance?
mircea_popescu: i suspect today is the day tmsr production exceeded the ability of any one man to keep abreast of.
sina: I mean, it's still written in python and all :P
sina: so I know it still counts as "complete rewrite" in your eyes
mod6: sina: where's the code?
sina: asciilifeform: btw I was going to ask you about your feelings on this
https://github.com/cforler/Ada-Crypto-Library ...obviously hasn't been impl for constant time/space but regardless. may be possible to ctgrind it using that valgrind patch I linked in the logs
sina: mod6: no, thank *you*
trinque: consider also the value of the gentleman who writes the thing ~being in your wot~
sina: that is true trinque
sina: asciilifeform: not valgrind for valgrinding, but ctgrind patched valgrind for checking constant timeness of existing code
sina: but I guess that point stands anyway
sina: if you impl as constant time you don't need ctgrind
sina: asciilifeform: nope, and I did look! the closest thing I found was this, which is both not public and not for constantime, although interesting nonetheless drops.dagstuhl.de/opus/volltexte/2012/3587/pdf/3.pdf
sina: although I do guess the researchers could be convinced to send source
sina: yeah, I definitely appreciate the fitsinhead thing
sina: basically once it's >fitsinhead, nobodies gonna audit it
sina: somehow it's 1pm and I haven't eaten breakfast, going to walk to the shop
sina: asciilifeform: I think all the stuff you care about will be in process/
mod6: sina: aside from alfs previous assertions; do you not want a primary key field set in the messages or keys table?
sina: mod6: yes, will add some constraints and indexes
sina: it was intentionally loose to begin with, but now can be constrainted
sina: definitely need index on keys table
sina: mod6: although, again, maybe not, I think the desire is to not have sqlite dep and use fs so...
sina: asciilifeform: do you feel sqlite is an OK dep or no?
sina: I guess you think the entire edifice of computing should be torn down and rebuilt
sina: in this case it has at least allowed for rapid iteration
sina: and I do remember a logline from asciilifeform "written in python because if I didn't then it wouldn't exist" or along those lines
sina: yah, that is understood
sina: especially for the usecase of gossipd, python cannot be the final lang
sina: must find food. mircea_popescu please excuse if I'm tardy on your return
sina: mircea_popescu: off the top of my head there were two things that I thought needed clarification
a111: Logged on 2017-06-10 03:59 mircea_popescu: i say count from 1.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-10 04:04 mircea_popescu: counterintuitively counting must be from 0 ?!
mircea_popescu: so girl bought imported (us) strawberries, and i swear to god they taste like detergent. washed and rinsed the living shit out of them. it's in the fucking skin.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-10 04:09 ben_vulpes: my next q is does the iteration run [0, count] or [0, count)
sina: which I noticed in my golang impl is [0, count)
sina: and I remember making it [0, count] and it breaking somehow or other
sina: oh right I remember
sina: in mpfhf-python: for i in range(0, count):
sina: which is [0, count], right?!
sina: but in golang: for i := 0; i<count; i++ {
sina: which is [0, count) :o
sina: if I change golang to <=, it differs from python
ben_vulpes: iirc we hit consensus with [0, count) in golang, however you implemented that
sina: ok well those were the 2 things which I believe the spec should be refined to state clearly
sina: anything from your end ben_vulpes ?
mircea_popescu: and sina ben_vulpes where's the cannonical impl live for each of you ? i dun want to change links later.
sina: you can link sina.id.au I guess, that is the castle home but no blog currently live there
sina: wtf is wrong with me for not owning id.au? or for having a .id.au domain?
mircea_popescu: "where do i send the check ?" "oh, here's my landlord's address. he takes all my money and i guess if he's bored buys me little riffled ankle socks so i can dance in the street"
mircea_popescu: own your things. not just your bitcoin. all your things, i say.
mircea_popescu: you know, just because the brits.co.uk are fucktarded, doesn't change how domain names work.
sina: mircea_popescu: if I had said my blog was sina.com.au would you have had same reaction?
sina: too bad sina.com is a giant chinese search engine!
mircea_popescu: it's what it is : a subdomain off a domain in a space run by fucktards who figure hey, "if this is all we sell it'll count"
sina: anyway if you hate it no need to link, like Isaid nothing is public facing there atm anyway
mircea_popescu: ill link whatever you say ; but i'll bitch about some subclasses.
sina: mircea_popescu: next q was where live, for me pls github.com/sinner-/mpfhf-python and github.com/sinner-mpfhf-golang
mircea_popescu: now trilema's linking to github, this is what i get for my sluttery.
sina: the castle has cgit but it is behind the wall
mircea_popescu: sina suppose, for the sake of entirely idle argument going over things that could never happen irl, that in a week github comes up with a "code of conduct" and you get booted off it.
sina: mircea_popescu: are you asking if that is the only place it exists other than my HDD? a: no
mircea_popescu: no. i am asking what exactly must be your thought process to give away your work to a bunch of usg tarded spammers so they can then turn around and sell it.
mircea_popescu: as if THEY had anything to do with it, any say in it, etcetera.
mircea_popescu: "github presents -- black chix code. this is what's important. we'd know because be bamboozled 5mn sinas into giving us free shit!"
sina: I guess it just doesn't bother me if anyone at all uses it
mircea_popescu: no two bit us-run "company" should have the sort of power ~everyone unthinkingly gave twitter et all.
mircea_popescu: sina yeah. and because mice don't bother elephant, elephant dies inexplicably of plague.
ben_vulpes: sina: why the resistance to making a website?
sina: also what's on there is just...how do I put it? hobby projects? stuff I do in my spare time
sina: I get paid to make stuff during work hours and that's not shared with anyone :P
mircea_popescu: the problem isn't their per-unit value. the problem is their count ; and the unthinkingness.
sina: ben_vulpes: there was one, but I never posted anything to it
a111: Logged on 2017-06-12 04:19 ben_vulpes: sina: sensible thing to do is make a genesis of your shit, stand up an mp-wp and post it on your blog
sina: you guys are literally the first and only people, ever, to actually care :P
ben_vulpes: heh and i get the astonishment too. that it's so deep, and about the weirdest of shit!
ben_vulpes: "you don't have a website?! linking to github?!"
ben_vulpes: but yeah i caught that i got a new caftan! neato!
sina: mircea_popescu: yes both python and go return identical hashes for stuff I tested
sina: and I developed them in tandem
sina: has asciilifeform reviews the codes?
a111: Logged on 2017-06-10 01:32 mircea_popescu: it should actually be "expand and screw r in s":
sina: mircea_popescu: I didn't forget, I thought you updated the blogpost on the day to reflect that and I did it on my README too
mircea_popescu: i think i was so ashamed of publishing bs originally that i just edited on the spot
sina: mircea_en_shametown
sina: mircea_popescu: suggestion. "A third operation is the flipping of a number of bits in either S or R," should read "elements A or B" and make that operation generic
mircea_popescu: incidentally, ben_vulpes & other blog afficionados, check me out with the article renaming on the fly, yes ? and old name resolves and everything ? go me ok ? OK ?
sina: yah, I just remember when implementing it I had to write out that sentence on notepad as A and B to wrap my head
sina: but only a suggestion
mircea_popescu: the great advantage of your work is that people can now just read the impl.
mircea_popescu: to wrap head. and such a wide palette ~impossible for anyone to not find a language he speaks.
mircea_popescu: if no more changes, shit left to do re mpfhf : a) do some proper profiling work, with timings etc. could make a great blog article. b) try and break it, like any hash. could make a bnunch of great blog articles (tried this, so and so, didn't work -- can do this 500 times).
sina: "Once the position is larger than the size of M" how about "once all iterations are complete"
mircea_popescu: "once all iterations are complete" means nothing in context ?
mircea_popescu: the whole game is "define ALL your elements and then USE NOTHING BUT THE DEFINED ELEMENTS"
sina: The function starts at position 0 in M and iterates over each bit in M
mircea_popescu: what is the count of iterations that corresponds to your symbol "all" ?
sina: for each bit of M, appropriate step has been completed
sina: it was a pleasure to work on!
phf: some fiat shit right there
phf: apparently it's called a "dis", african americans invented it in the 40s
mircea_popescu: anyway -- thanks to the werkz we are now in a better position to find out if this thing even works.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-10 04:08 sina: or is this a spec bug
mircea_popescu: this + the ai learning thing, which i've not forgot about btw, will update it soonish.
mircea_popescu: "sina: ok, so should I keep my screw implementation as is?" "mircea_popescu: yes."
mircea_popescu: phf next you're going to come up with shade a la "the only reason it's fabulous is cuz it's ghey" and then ima get my disbaseball bat
phf: humor so bad it's good, or is it
mircea_popescu: the only reason it was funny is because it was GAY niggers that came up with it in the 40s!
mircea_popescu: but kids today don't know the history of infosec anymoar.
sina: ben_vulpes: you write clojure no? I'd be interested to race golang vs functional jvm
ben_vulpes: tangentially relatedly, i've been working from a cheapo ssd in this ancient once-gaming-rig i got for a song and holy shit does it kick the ass off the ssds in macbooks
sina: mircea_popescu: sure.
mircea_popescu: the above should plainly explain btw (for instance, via asciilifeform 's "beat the ai" game), why rng is absolutely required for sovereign entity to even in principle exist.
sina: mircea_popescu: old man python hey? you should be able to clone the repo and run "python setup.py install" from inside the repo dir
sina: the README explains all usage
mircea_popescu: some assembly required huh. fair enough, lessee this readme then\
sina: github.com/sinner-/gossipd
sina: mircea_popescu: would you be willing to ssh into another box where it's setup?
mircea_popescu: sina prolly premature to hassle you with ah hey, that's an idea. sure.
sina: ah interesting I actually had a similar idea after reading abotu the ai stuff
sina: mircea_popescu: where are you atm? I booted in Frankfurt thinking you were in EU but just realised you're probly elsewhere :P
sina: ah I would've booted something with less lag is all
mircea_popescu: suspiciously enough, ssh-keygen takes all of 5ms or some shit.
sina: cat .ssh/id_rsa.pub
sina: mircea_popescu: can you 'ssh root@45.77.66.53'
mircea_popescu: hey, im into... something. there's pretty red colored stuff.
sina: yup. ok pls open another terminal, one to run the daemon and another to run the client
sina: you can run gossipc -h
sina: so youcan add me as a peer with: gossipc --add-peer --name sina --host 127.0.0.1 --port 5556
sina: mircea_popescu: ok, so then save my key somewhere onto the filesystem like /tmp/sina_exchange.pub and run: gossipc --set-peer-key --name sina -k /tmp/sina_exchange.pub
mircea_popescu: so i saved it as hurr.txt and then gossipc -k hurr.txt, no anmswer
sina: sorry the UX bit of it is still a tad clunky
sina: some kind of bug! wtf!
mircea_popescu: i typed "hurr ?" into the demon window, though i suspect that's not intended usage
sina: you can ctrl-c the daemon and I will tell you when to restart
mircea_popescu: aite listen don't stress out, we'll try this again later.
sina: yeah, I'll let you know when I have hunted down wtf is going on
sina: considering this is working on an identical setup locall
mircea_popescu: heh, sounds exactly like why man made computer in the first place.
sina: I was missing the final "-" of your pubkey footer
sina: feel free to hop back on
mircea_popescu: got some other stuff going right now, so not a good time, but tomorrow or such ?
sina: ok added some error handling to stop that issue in future, how annoyin
sina: there's no session! :P
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 02:15 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-28#1675565 << the problem with the concept of a "session" is that it attempts to link machine state to world state. this is a very tenuous proposition, and the fundamental reason why sessionificatyion of (the correctly designed) stateless
http protocol failed for 30 years straight and will continue to fail forever.
mircea_popescu: also, how do you feel about replacing your db dependency with encrypted-flatfile instead ?
sina: mircea_popescu: I feel fine about reducing everything once the concept is OK'd
sina: can change tcp for udp, can change sql for flatfile, can change python for syslang
☟︎ mircea_popescu: the two main problems are the db and the rsa import as it stands.
sina: happy to swap out the RSA lib if one can be proposed
sina: I just googled "small RSA lib" and tomcrypt was one that had python bindings out of the box
mircea_popescu: sina so you're considering making offer for ai learning hosting ?
sina: mircea_popescu: I dunno. all I can say is when I was reading the ai logs, and you mentioned irc repl, I was thinking about how it could be implemented
sina: today is Fri here, bout to return to work in a few days, so free time will be curtailed
sina: mircea_popescu: what do you want to see ideally? just a lisp repl with irc interface?
sina: where do I upload this pcap
sina: mircea_popescu: FYI that is a bunch of send and recv from 2 peers, (1 on port 5555, other on port 5556) on the same network interface (127.0.0.1) ...it's not a single "session"
sina: I did look at the learning tournament blog previously but I couldn't really grok it
mircea_popescu: obviously not. just, you realise, it's a republican artefact, "1st pcap of an early gossipd attempt"
mircea_popescu: well, basically a bunch of people (ideally) will write ai bots, and solmeone will have to run their tournament.
mircea_popescu: sina ftr, the lisp repl with irc interface was already built ; her name is candi_lustt
deedbot: candi_lustt voiced for 30 minutes.
sina: so can you untangle these for me as I'm a little confused
a111: Logged on 2016-12-12 15:24 Framedragger: uci == universal computing interface? something something infrastructure on demand at your irc fingertips, right (ironically google is failing me)
sina: mircea_popescu: so is UCI just candi_lustt + an interface you can pay for resources via?
mircea_popescu: nah. candi_lustt is a by hand, limited implementation of something that could be deemed uci in the sense of the donkey-powered shower.
sina: have you ever heard of seccomp?
sina: it's a linux kernel feature you can use to limit which syscalls a program has access to...the original version of seccomp allowed only read()/write()/exit() syscalls
☟︎ sina: it was implemented for this CPUShare concept
sina: so people could sell CPU cycles, in a pretty hard sandbox, that only offered those 3 syscalls
sina: is that the same kind of idea?
sina: I can actually feel asciilifeform being angry at me in the future already
a111: Logged on 2017-05-02 15:39 mircea_popescu: could I do something like !$mirror <url> 5 so as to get it to spin up 5 separate instances, load url, unpack it and serve ?
mircea_popescu: that is a fine example. or, you know, calculate the mpfhf over the gutenberg collection.
mircea_popescu: or whatever, hashing, packeting, anything and everything.
sina: hmm ok so there is an interesting technology I have worked on
sina: you've probably heard of Amazon S3, it's an object store with REST API, so it responds to primitives GET/HEAD/PUT/DELETE/POST ...there is an equivalent open source project part of OpenStack called Swift. some people I know worked on a sandbox that only accepts input on stdin and writes to stdout, and wrotesome middleware for swift so you can for example upload a datset and compute on it and get the result
sina: mircea_popescu: no problem with it, just nobody wants this!
sina: I rant about it to my boss at least once a week
sina: mircea_popescu: when the people I know first wrote ZeroVM it was like 2012 or so, and at the time I was working at a startup you may recall that. and I told everyone we shoudl get involved, was ignored, then ZeroVM got "acquihired" by Rackspace
sina: and since then the project has been stealth or just stagnant
sina: no commits to zerovm github since 2015 same for zerocloud middleware for swift :(
sina: anyway, it would be trivial to place an irc gateway in front of that
mircea_popescu: which depends on deedbot payments, which reminds me... how's that going trinque ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: sina the idea is for me to go "do this" and for it to go "here's your bill sir"
mircea_popescu: then all the ad-hoc uci impls doing full disk encryption for maerks could be actually useful.
sina: fde wouldn't have protected them
sina: backups would have!
sina: you mean, the ransomware bot shoudl have been UCI bots? haha
mircea_popescu: there's two kinds of computers : public, and private. everyone else's computers are public, and by public i simply mean, not theirs.
sina: so what's wrong with candi_lustt for this role? it just needs a billing thingo?
mircea_popescu: gotta put a price tag on this whole "we're too lazy to do security"
sina: technically both of those are just pieces of code you'd write though
sina: so this thing literally exists on the market today and its fucking cheap for example to use Amazon Lambda...is the reason you want your own basically boil down to 1. no irc gw 2. not tmsr?
mircea_popescu: sina no. 1. no "rules of conduct" 2. no usg / fiat "sovereign" interdictability.
mircea_popescu: this thing exists to put an end to non-tmsr computing, give or take.
sina: well someone like me could write software to do these things but the deployment would need to be outside of jurisdiction, hard for me as an AU citizen
sina: you need to be Eastern European or Chinese
sina: so basically it's just a pay to play botnet?
mircea_popescu: bitcoin+gossipd+uci -> pretty much time to say goodnight.
sina: good being defined as?
mircea_popescu: the typical botnet is what, a bunch of fridges sending ntp requests ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: people's understanding of "botnet" goes as far as the very deliberate automattic wp hole, for isntance.
sina: sure, but that is largely a lack of originality in the types of commands executed, but the botnet itself can execute whatever
sina: when I was a bit younger I worked for managed hosting company
mircea_popescu: dunno how much useful anything can a windows box execute, but for the sake of argument
sina: customer sites used to get scanned/pwned/php shell uploaded on the regular
sina: php shell was usually <100 lines of base64 encoded thing that'd shell out to whatever you wanted
sina: costs nothing to check for existence of shit software compared to payoff :P
sina: well it's certainly an interesting concept
sina: seriously hanging here is the least bored I ever am
sina: how can I explain it
sina: day to day, everything is postmodernism. any idea you have, someone did it. probably better than you. in fact, one example of that is MPex
sina: an idea I had, then I saw someone had done it way better than my idea
sina: but tmsr in general, everything that anyone has done sucks and is to be torn down and rebuilt in some quirky fashion
sina: lots of fertile ground for funtimes
mircea_popescu: people are liek "oh, mp can't be rich & powerful because rich & powerful people don't irc". totally, because it is really the goal of my life as well as everyone reasonable to be as rich and powerful as trump, so as to live the great life of idiots trying to insert cathetercam up your dick as you're trying to pee
mircea_popescu: "FOR THE DEMOCRACY! PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO LOOK UP YOUR BLADDER!"
mircea_popescu: i suppose i'm missing out on a lot of watching four movies at once through pay per view.
sina: that's what they call you mate
sina: mircea_popescu: earlier you said "spin up new ones"
sina: is a "new one" a full host, i.e. CPU/RAM/HDD/public IP?
sina: well it depends right?
sina: !sha256 <set of document URLs>
sina: but both might spin up 5 "new ones" to do the task
sina: I'm just trying to envision what a "one" is
sina: I get the feeling that the task would be much simpler if there was only 1 public IP for the whoel system where you could retrieve the results of whatever "job" you triggered
sina: that'd be much more difficult given your requirement for manual peer introduction?
sina: I mean imagine you have autonomous "acquisition" of ndoes
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 02:18 mircea_popescu: the only way for A and B to be introduced, outside of the grandfatherly, A fucks B and they exchange bits of paper, is C tells A about B and B about A.
mircea_popescu: after all, you did get my key from... your irc client yes ?
sina: I did but in my mind that falls more under A fucks B
sina: well it wasn't bits of paper, but wotpaste URLs are not so different?
sina: so in your way of thinking, B is irc.freenode.net?
sina: I guess I was thinking of C tells A
sina: as B has fucked C and A and exchange paper with both of them
sina: transitive peer recognition through trusting the fucker
sina: it's because you have an implicit mental model of the thing and years of log context
sina: and I am basically just grokking the thing less than a week ago
ben_vulpes: also worth mentioning the feedback loop where a and c get the wrong keys somehow and go talk to b about it
mircea_popescu: now look : in situation 1, where bricktop decided to introduce me to you, and you do me, for which purpose he sent you some wotpaste and me similarily
mircea_popescu: and situation 2 where i sent you it via irc, how do you distinguish ?
sina: "you do me" *me dies*
sina: in situation 1, I assume there is no bricktop and we exchange wotpaste directly
sina: but I guess you are assuming you'd never add a rando peasant
mircea_popescu: gotta separate your vision from the shit on the glasses.
mircea_popescu: are you kidding, i added rando peasant with my cock last week
sina: I think this is a much more interesting idea than the IRC bot I was goign to make that plays chess
sina: instead, IRC bot which accepts any shell command, tracks CPU time, mem used, block and network IO consumed and presents a bill
ben_vulpes: if it runs any shell command, what's to keep it from getting at your monitor?
sina: ben_vulpes: monitor?
sina: oh the thing tracking billing?
ben_vulpes: cl runs 3-4x longer than the go impl after attending to all the compiler notes i can; probably need a pointer on profiling common lisp code to squeeze much more out of it
sina: you can run the command in a sandbox and track it with cgroups in linux
sina: once long ago, I ran a tor hidden service that allowed anyone to execute any command they liked on it, as a deanonymisation challenge
☟︎ sina: nobody could ever deanon it even though they had shell access
sina: (because of the sandbox techniques)
sina: grsec chroot sandbox + linux network namespaces
sina: mircea_popescu: it was more to prove the point at the time that Ulbricht was a numpty who couldn't secure his own ass
ben_vulpes: lol sina he got nabbed by insiders and physical tails what are you on about
sina: several times during operation he exposed the public IP of the hs
sina: due to shit sandboxing
sina: "oh apache listen on 127.0.0.1 now I am secure"
mircea_popescu: nfi what you folks are discussing. i meant, the metering irc bot would be interesting.
sina: ah yep, sorry I think we are one branch further down the tree
ben_vulpes off, robosprinklers pointed out the time and suddenly v. tired
mircea_popescu: now, a bunch of all-talk wedidits couldn't do whatever medium diff task. ok. how's this relate to silk road dood ?
sina: mircea_popescu: it was trying to prove at the time, that you could construct system in such a way that it can't expose its own info by amateur fuckups
sina: which Ulbricht had done several times
sina: no, it certainly seems he wouldn't have :P
sina: at the time I was v interested in tor hs, before it became completely obvious that GCHQ/NSA had ability to look across the whole onion, and I just wanted to demonstrate hey it is actually possible to not ride your bike into the side of the bus
sina: "with this one simple trick" :P
sina: anyway, this was all just to answer ben_vulpes question about how you can make sure the "job" doesn't fuck with its billing supervisor
sina: same sandboxing techniques can be used to go a long way
mircea_popescu: on the basis of its record of accomplishments it's not even directly obvious if it was made by usg to orange revolution random shitholes, or rather to mentally swamp the not-entirely-dim lightbulbs in its own collegiate stables.
sina: I am sure asciilifeform would disagree of course, that it is remotely possible to ever secure anything :P
sina: mircea_popescu: *el paso theme song* why not both?
mircea_popescu: having the item running can't hurt in any case. if it gets owned, you learn a lesson. if it doesn't, it ... works.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 04:15 mircea_popescu: wtf is wrong with you ?
Framedragger: i personally don't see any big diff between myblog.com and myblog.landlord.com
☟︎☟︎ Framedragger: "the former has regulationz and policies to protect it!" doesn't sound very tmsr to me, hm
scriba: Logged on 2017-06-29: [18:10:49] <mircea_popescu> this view is correct -- while usg stands, it is shameful for man to work. man must steal.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 09:18 mircea_popescu: take Framedragger for instance.
trinque: you didn't even get to bang Iris Buttcruft did you.
☟︎ sina: good morning/evening sirs
Framedragger: ftr i respect her a lot, tmsr and me will have to agree to disagree
trinque: and "tor is a thing, really, because reasons" ?
trinque:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677141 << hadn't had a chance to pick it up for a bit; got time this weekend though. item I've got can maintain balances, send and mark-paid invoices. I think I'll handle deposits manually and call that a first cut, trb address tracking without a privkey isn't there yet.
☝︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 08:12 mircea_popescu: which depends on deedbot payments, which reminds me... how's that going trinque ?
trinque: Framedragger: that "crypto-anarchist" thing is exactly a continuation of the american notion of "omg it's a free country, can do whatever I want"
trinque: they use crypto to hide under the bed; they don't use it to swear, or be named.
Framedragger: this ad hominem (some ad hominems are completely valid, that i understand) is orthogonal to technical knowledge and its conveyance to other people. i know that there is no apolitical knowledge and you maybe can't separate the two, but i think sometimes it's possible, to an extent.
☟︎ shinohai: "Wright also reiterated that he’s ready to take legal action against those who have ridiculed his claim of being the creator of Bitcoin, which he made back in 2016. "
☟︎ trinque: australia probably has laws against ridicule by now
☟︎ trinque: Framedragger: you know, but you don't, eh?
☟︎ Framedragger: ah or not because probably no proper response. i mean, i ack the contradiction.
trinque: ftr it's nonsense to cry "ad hominem" when I'm criticizing *people*.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 15:16 Framedragger: more like, i learned things from her
shinohai: !!v FA963D93B5905D6C2EB3F61CC90AAB86F55267292B2F6032C6127CDB5B0B1479
deedbot: shinohai rated TomServo 1 << #trilema Working on trb node
shinohai: !!v B87C3ABDB63D9924CF135C5173B3DCB5C0BC03B518E3E67C3C3F488731263071
deedbot: shinohai updated rating of jurov from 1 to 2 << #trilema #eulora coinbr.com
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 14:50 Framedragger: i personally don't see any big diff between myblog.com and myblog.landlord.com
shinohai: I promise if Framedragger ever gets her to show up here and !~tits to give here a +1 ^.^
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 07:41 sina: can change tcp for udp, can change sql for flatfile, can change python for syslang
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 08:03 sina: it's a linux kernel feature you can use to limit which syscalls a program has access to...the original version of seccomp allowed only read()/write()/exit() syscalls
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 08:09 mircea_popescu: interesting. what was the problem with it ?
trinque: I'm curious about asciilifeform's 64bit DOS as a network-edge device.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 08:20 mircea_popescu: the typical botnet is what, a bunch of fridges sending ntp requests ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform re "how many activities" -- it's not so clear to me, and moreover the consensus of hardware farmers (as opposed to coders) is that there's not much reason this absolutely should be the case, other than, to quote, "largely a lack of originality in the types of commands executed".
mircea_popescu: yes but now we're down the tree discussing types of flicker.
mircea_popescu: the whole point is -- that it's not clear to me this is an unaproachable limit.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform amusingly the whole fucking point of "malleable encryption" is ~give or take to make lubby for computation.
mircea_popescu: anyway. even if you get to keep data but not computation, may be enough.
ben_vulpes entertained a sales pitch from a seller with some relevant snake oil recently
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform all your machine ever does is push pop and mult.
ben_vulpes: "the guys down the office keep giving us hardons with the homomorphic encryption stuff but every time we sit down to discuss numbers it turns out to be computationally infeasible so uh here's this rest layer over postgres so you don't have to touch the dirty dirty phone numbers yourselves"
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you know this is strangely how "artificial intelligence" as well as "quantum computing" work out ?
ben_vulpes: to quote #programmer-therapy: "i just sat clicking at a recaptcha for five minutes before it would accept that i'm human."
mircea_popescu: well, at least there's (11.5/2)% or so black chicks among them yes ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: nah, but they make up for it with genderswappers
mircea_popescu: this is how conversations go -- if you're talking to alf, he's gonna mention it himself ; if talking to anyone else, you hit them over the head with it.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes oh right right, fucking two midgets ~= fucking one swede. i forgot.
shinohai: If a black mayogendered tgirl writes code, will the universe implode?
mircea_popescu: ideally should be code about a list of dota characters.
ben_vulpes: shinohai: they don't make keyboards for fingers that large
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you're lucky, some've been trying since 1955.
mircea_popescu: and for that matter -- bitcoin is computed by a) 1024 flickering nodes that b) lose data or processing all the time.
mircea_popescu: definitionally, "what could you possibly do with a fridgenet???" "bitcoin"
shinohai: Mine ethereum for scam ICO's of course.
mircea_popescu: the key elements are a) specify a quanta and b) let them either get to it or not. some will.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a shell is an artefact of technology, like say the "eingeer's" coal shovel.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, there is that. but... at least PARTS of bitcoin are not.
mircea_popescu: "engineer's" coal shovel. ie, back when engineer was dude driving steam engine.
mircea_popescu: honestly, i expect the unix "Shell" is very much "poor man's ai". specifically "we can't get it to laugh at your jokes or suck your cock, but here's the best we can do, it's almost as if you're talking to it"
mircea_popescu: i have ~no expectation for machine to entertain me. all i expect is for it to do work.
trinque: shell's all wrong; you have no idea when you're getting a response in chickennet
trinque: async is always way easier to manage
trinque: also have to be able to verify responses yourself
mircea_popescu: much like "existing isp is pretty much what you want", except not.
mircea_popescu: i can talk with guys who don't know about boats any number of places!
shinohai: asciilifeform: doesn't `jacobstoner` tell you all you need to know? >.<
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 09:07 sina: once long ago, I ran a tor hidden service that allowed anyone to execute any command they liked on it, as a deanonymisation challenge
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, but this also means you get secure sub 10k devices.
mircea_popescu: sort-of how "the improved technology" of us army makes most countries immune to it. "what, you're gonna blow a 5mn tomahawk to destroy this here 20k hangar ? bwahahaha go right ahead, the chinese give 50k in cash rebates for each destroyed hangar they rebuild cuz you tomahawked."
mircea_popescu: and i'm not even fucking kidding, you.actually.get.cash.rebates.
mircea_popescu: this is a very typical ustardian headroach, deliberately educated into their brains like those african tribes with the flattened skulls.
mircea_popescu: "oh, gotta worry! oh, gotta be careful!" bitch... i dun care.
mircea_popescu: "you have to plan for your future" "how about your daugther plans for parenthood"
mircea_popescu: point remains -- "the only available 0day costs > 100k" is a legitimate specification-of-security.\
mircea_popescu: "do not put over $x in aggregate on this system" is pretty much the only way you'd do it anyway.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so your car has a special indicator, binary, E/F ?
mircea_popescu: goes from full to empty in a yard and then it stops the next yard ?
mircea_popescu: just like tank fillness is binary, right ? "is it full or isn;'t it"
mircea_popescu: in practice, "what's this tank worth" doesn't depend on "there is NO ARROW THAT COULD PIERCE THIS SHIELD!!!" nonsense.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-31 16:28 asciilifeform: and if someone wants to mention godel etc -- ethical engineer MAY NOT cite godel, EVER, just as a police detective MAY NOT cite the supernatural and admit a hypothesis of miraculous theft from a safe
mircea_popescu: every tank can be flattened, and yet i can make comparative judgements re tiger vs mathilde.
mircea_popescu: in fact, no medicine yet devised bestows endless life as a young man ; and yet i can say sulfmetoxazole better for gonorhea than cough syrup.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there are in fact gradations of validity in theorem, and you use them daily.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 16:05 asciilifeform: there is not ( and probably provably cannot be ) a 'luby for computation'
mircea_popescu: oooo, that's what it was! check you out, YOU introduced the word theorem to describe what we were discussing, and then conveniently YOU point out YOU used the wrong word ?
mircea_popescu: in this case <asciilifeform> like theorem. is entirely spurious non-contribution to teh discussion.
mircea_popescu: because no, by your own lights within five minutes, NOT "like theorem". unlike theorem.
mircea_popescu: the ~only way to specify the security of a certain, definite, given system is still "good for up to $x btc"
mircea_popescu: which makes the "0 days cost X" a legitimate statement of the ~security~ of a system.
mircea_popescu: what system exists without physical component ? something running on uci ?
mircea_popescu: i suppose so. but eg "power diff analysis" very much "leverage of the thingness of item"
mircea_popescu: it sounded like signal processor at first, but then it kinda went bent. wouldn't this be damned slow ?
mircea_popescu: the one thing that comes to mind is that the correct approach is for all devices hanging off bus to always run, so that when cpu gets 0xaa 0xbb then the mult mults, the adder adds, and nobody knows WHICH of them the processor peeked for the result.
mircea_popescu: this would be automatic-constant-time cpu, run any software you want.
mircea_popescu: the compiler for arbitrary this arch would be one helluva piece of gnarl.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not "naturally" they always run, since "ready signals" were mentioned.
mircea_popescu: i'd prefer it if this had no out band signalling. at all.
mircea_popescu: which is why my mind went to "would run slow" : cpu clock is largest-hanger-clock + 1
mircea_popescu: this sounds like engineer problem, really. make the multer same speed as adder.
trinque: for the slower cogitaters trying to keep up, this guy has two registers? operations hanging off the executor read from these?
mircea_popescu: trinque yes. asciilifeform he's trying to visualize how the damned thing talks to the world.
trinque: where is ADD getting its terms to add.
mircea_popescu: basically it's a signal processor someone dropped on the floor.
mircea_popescu: none of that. just poll at fixed speed. that is the clock.
mircea_popescu: 1khz or 1thz, whatever you can get the hardware to do.
trinque: my shitty ram claims to run at 3.2ghz
trinque: sitting on 32gb of the stuff atm
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nono, there's this wire, and it does 1thz, and you connect w/e you want to it, go ahead.
mircea_popescu: takes "flickers in and out of existence" to a whole new level.
mircea_popescu: it was much shorter and slightly thicker than my penis.
mircea_popescu: yest i wanted to make myself batido, the swiss iutem was fullo of some health crap the girls drink, so i was whatever. then later new girl emitted "it's clean now!" signal and i was like "bitch, srsly ? you're... signalling me now ?!"
mircea_popescu: took her most of the day to even get her head wrapped around what exactly she's not understanding about what happened.
mircea_popescu: (as an aside, i don't expect any of these fucktards, gilmore, bernstein, whatever, even remotely give enough of a shit about anything not tittlating their anal orifices, BUT! it'd help me fucking immensely if they actually were in, because of sybil considerations. but they dun wanna, becausew why should the world not stink.)
mircea_popescu: a wot with a few respectable old timers in would be significantly stronger than their individual market value.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 14:50 Framedragger: i personally don't see any big diff between myblog.com and myblog.landlord.com
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's reasonably priced in numbers rather than unicode ?
mircea_popescu: this tta would cost more in floorspace rent than in object items.
mircea_popescu: in point of fact, this breadbox may qwell be clock-speed fast when doing rsa, none of those second bs of python running on 8 bit "optimal" intel-me
mircea_popescu: "what do you think 4Gz means, bitch ? you do 4 billion rsa per second."
mircea_popescu: lot of adders as good as a multer for a blind bat naimean ?
mircea_popescu: "oh, quantum computer can like, totally break things and what was it ?" ehehehe
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's by now a well established fact through republican practice, this original idea that "all the benefits of non-usg, you get by simply making non-consumer choices".
mircea_popescu: "don't try to use the king's own mail system (with incantations! and lemon juice!) to get your dope -- not have problems with getting your dope". and so on.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-14 19:05 asciilifeform: not only could it, but there's been a d00d serving up his www on a pic16f84, via slip, since 1990s...
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 14:54 trinque: you didn't even get to bang Iris Buttcruft did you.
mircea_popescu: cheaper better looking eagerlier ass awaits barefoot in the jungle.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 15:16 Framedragger: more like, i learned things from her
mircea_popescu: have you seen the piece of ass in discussion ? isis lovecruft chick ?
mircea_popescu: well, do you agree that had you seen her AND had your reaction been "omfg i gotta tap dat ass!" you... would be sure ?
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 15:18 trinque:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677141 << hadn't had a chance to pick it up for a bit; got time this weekend though. item I've got can maintain balances, send and mark-paid invoices. I think I'll handle deposits manually and call that a first cut, trb address tracking without a privkey isn't there yet.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 15:21 shinohai: "Wright also reiterated that he’s ready to take legal action against those who have ridiculed his claim of being the creator of Bitcoin, which he made back in 2016. "
mircea_popescu: "hey usg criminal organisation, would you like to back up the false claims made by some random new york hotel whore/maid you picked up specifically to make those false claims ???"
mircea_popescu: the only question left is if apple could buy iLegal action and make a country out of it.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 15:20 Framedragger: this ad hominem (some ad hominems are completely valid, that i understand) is orthogonal to technical knowledge and its conveyance to other people. i know that there is no apolitical knowledge and you maybe can't separate the two, but i think sometimes it's possible, to an extent.
mircea_popescu: there's nothing whatever wrong with "woman took me to sushi. it was a restaurant, she didn't even cook it, or work there, or pay. and yes people have been having sushi far longer than they've been having hamburger but it was my first time and i'll always remember her fondly, notwithstanding she died of an overdose while trying to rob a kindergarten at gunpoint (she thought she was inside the bank next door)."
mircea_popescu: this is why people even get their own fucking head and their own history in the first place -- so that such great stories can occur.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha. "bland, rather stupid woman. but she could walk back when i was six months old"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, re that wright "i totally was fondled by bitcoin in a hotel room he was occupying" imbecile : i suppose the backup claim of "well, bitcoin now patented! terrorists!" just in case "everything else" keeps blowing up is being "serviced".
mircea_popescu: it's an entirely spurious claim, of course, but then it's an entirely spurious criminal org making it, so.
mircea_popescu: ~the time they got bitchslapped so hard they bled internally.
mircea_popescu: before that, they were still in denial, "oh, it's just a nose bleed, we get these naturally, fist was incidental".
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 15:22 trinque: Framedragger: you know, but you don't, eh?
mircea_popescu: to clean the shit gotta be able to straddle the shitsty.
trinque: can go into the sty, but avoid fondness for shit as a coping mechanism
mircea_popescu: whereas calories are calories -- body worth something to ant.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 15:50 asciilifeform:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677110 << it still has access to... cache timings. and potentially undocumented cpu instructions ( laugh, but this happened and 'unhappened' repeatedly, and that's just on asciilifeform's watch )
mircea_popescu: pretty sure it was peeled and photograpphed my multiple teams.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 17:15 asciilifeform: 5-10bux for a 8bit register, in q.1
a111: Logged on 2017-05-16 01:55 asciilifeform: for bonus 'ourdemocracy' decapitation, bake it out of ECL logic
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 19:43 asciilifeform: shinohai: 'Above all Dr Craig Wright is humble, kind and generous. Although its widely accepted that the Bitcoin developers are brilliant engineers. A major problem is that the developers have horrible and nasty personalities. Dr Wright is generous, humble, calm, polite and above all nice. Bitcoin will therefore hugely benefit from Dr Wright returning to more actively participate in Bitcoin engineering and research. ' didjaknow!!
shinohai: Didn't find it on reddit .... twitter scraper found it
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 17:31 asciilifeform: hey Framedragger do you have a photo ?
trinque: > feminist critical theory
Framedragger: (had a flatmate who was into that for long, had some good engaging convos)
trinque: ah well on the basis of your feelings and coy avoidance I'll suppose it's a thing then.
Framedragger: well your pseudpsychoanalysis is always spot-on, so would appreciate explanation re avoidance
mircea_popescu: sort-of like nigger-rigging is what they call us navy works.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger but you're still vague. what's a coding style ?
trinque: "I supposedly read some books, and now listen to me prattle about myself while I stand on the books"
mircea_popescu: trinque would "Scholastics" sound any better ? cuz it's thje same thing, unchanged since the uni was invented, by the turks, in 1200.
trinque: 'engaging' is a tripeword marketing people use when there's no content
mircea_popescu: Framedragger do believe i have no intention or tendency here, i'm just curious.
Framedragger: trinque: i read said flatmate's dissertation on critical writing and provided lots of criticism, it was nice, not sure what else to say
Framedragger: basically she inherited this terribad codebase, "bridgedb". she rewrote parts of it (possibly finishing the rest but i didn't stay in touch), and fixed all kinds of weird threading issues by effective use of semaphores etc, which is nothing special, but the result is just so damn easy to read
☟︎ Framedragger: i don't mean easy as in lazy, i mean that there was no point for the historical bad to be so clumsy
Framedragger: trinque: she agreed that "yes i was quoting here because i liked the quote, didn't understand in depth", many times, while at the same time i didn't think it was all nonsense. i would have to dig up to actually provide examples, which i suppose yes would be nice.
mircea_popescu: and so this was a learning experience for you, because semaphores as a concept ?
trinque: Framedragger: you're avoiding spilling the "what was not all nonsense"
mircea_popescu: well, might be the first time he's confronted with this issue.
trinque: ample logs of me smacking my nose on same!
Framedragger: "heavily documented and commented without useless comments code", effective use of OOP in python without using classes just for the sake of it, tackling a technologically entangled thing (i could explain but basically there is this "bridge db" which gives "bridges" at some churn rate, but bridges come in different "buckets" (different obfuscation protocol etc),
Framedragger: and hence need multiple hashrings (which ensure uniformly random distribution of them), etc.; many moving parts.)
mircea_popescu: Framedragger see now you're being useful. because the republican notion of "those people" is gendercomits for comments.
Framedragger: trinque: yeah i acknowledge that. well fuck, i need to actually try to respond, but for that i'd need to take a look at subject again. which i can do and probably should do
mircea_popescu: so basically, something more in the vein of literate programming than in the vein of lolzjavascript
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 20:37 Framedragger:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677344 << use of some specific datastructures (e.g. - and yes uni didn't cover yes - yes, shame on me - hashrings). as well as coding style (yes).
Framedragger: asciilifeform: got shown shit effectively while also staring at relevant places of codebase so it was all contextualised well.
Framedragger: and yeah i guess just literate programming. i was *even younger*, recall
mircea_popescu: the whole requirement is to be able to explain, naught more.
Framedragger: check the video i guess, tastes can differ heh
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 20:40 Framedragger: basically she inherited this terribad codebase, "bridgedb". she rewrote parts of it (possibly finishing the rest but i didn't stay in touch), and fixed all kinds of weird threading issues by effective use of semaphores etc, which is nothing special, but the result is just so damn easy to read
mircea_popescu: showing cunt to passerby also work for middling adolescewnt female, not world class. and yet...
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 17:08 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo ?
mircea_popescu: he should have been here. arguably more than, eg, rms.
BingoBoingo: Then maybe famous guy like asciilifeform of Loper OS fame ought to email? You've got more history in the field.
mircea_popescu: from experience, famous doods aren't worth the paper they'll be buried in
BingoBoingo: I am finding similar results. Seems email isn't functional for anything but "subscription" market that was never subscribed to
mircea_popescu: anyone recall that "protocols of elders of zion" equivalent, "why not hire inerlligent people" ?
BingoBoingo just back from day in the sun and dirt, memory still in lossy mode
mircea_popescu: anyway. is passage there about "football glories" who expect they already did their work and will be getting conference chicken free for life.
mircea_popescu is sick of "famous people" like of crab apples. let them sit in some other latrine with their "oh i lost my pgp key 20 years ago" zimmerman and their "i dedicate my life to raising impudent street urchins as if they were white people" bernstein and their "oh hi, rng ?" koch and their "o btw, i lied about that laptop" rms everything else.
mircea_popescu: not a single one, you understand me, out of dozens examined, proved upon examination to be more than wasp spit and dung.
mircea_popescu: i've a better chance to find actual human among the barefoot jungle nicas than among the usgistani "famous people".
mircea_popescu: and this isn't even getting into the whole layer of "i make a webcomic about shit i don't grok" "famous" retardation
Framedragger: ah, you quoted the athletes part quite exactly, and 'tis a nice passage
sina: mircea_popescu: time to mess with gossipthing?
sina: so fucking cold here!
sina: for a sydneysider, 8 degrees C is essentially the siberian tundra
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 15:21 trinque: australia probably has laws against ridicule by now
sina: we def got the wilting heat in summer, and little scorpions as you approach the equator
sina: but you're still allowed to ridicule Craig Wright here
mircea_popescu: are you allowed to peruse drawings of little squares labeled mom "fucking" littler squares labeled daugther and/or dog ?
sina: and despite our local media being incapable of discerning an utter charlatan from a block of wood, those who could, did
sina: nobodies gonna kick down your door for watching pornhub or even bestialityhub
mircea_popescu: to my eyes, the true outstanding imbecillity of the remains of the british empire is this, taking the ustardian pretense that "child pornography" and turning it to the point of "CARTOON!!!! child pornography".
mircea_popescu: that they're thereby negating the very pretense of justification never seems to have occured to them. oh, really, does it harm little drawings ?
sina: ah childporn. yeah they come down on that kind of stuff very hard here
mircea_popescu: this is like saying an idiot ignoring the door and trying to walk through the wall "Came very hard". the hardness isn't the point, the utter idiocy kinda overwhelms it.
sina: to clarify, are you trying to make the point that childporn shouldn't be prosecuted? or that the definition of childporn is overlybroad
mircea_popescu: i am making the point that irrespective of whether some group should be oppressed or not, the "justification" proferred for the oppression is ridiculous.
mircea_popescu: much saner to put all gays in jail because "they offend baby jezuz" than to put all pedos in jail because "they harm little kids"
☟︎ sina: it wasn't all that long ago that we were doing just that in fact
mircea_popescu: but be that as it may -- the notion that a drawing can be at issue is not only just as stupid as usual, but also crits. now you don't even have any sort of available "i really believe this crap" defense.
sina: well one can argue that all of the lines in "society" are essentially of the same arbitrary construct
sina: it just so happens that this is where one of those lines is laid today
mircea_popescu: one could argue that, but not very successfully. try and argue it re drugs for instance.
sina: um sure? so the line for some drugs is drawn *here*, and other drugs drawn *there*, and depending on a similarly "nothing there" criteria, some peoples lives are ruined and others enriched
mircea_popescu: did you see the economic discussion of the matter in the logs ?
mircea_popescu: or did you read the "how to be a pimp" piece on trilema ?
sina: I think at this point, given countries like Portugal which have decriminalised a lot of drugstuff, it's clear the lines for drugs is just as arbitrary
sina: rly? because in Portugal posession of an ounce of weed is nothing, here it's up to officer discretion (above 1oz is trafficking!), in US if you're black that can be jail, in Indonesia you could get death
sina: clearly it's arbitrary
mircea_popescu: right now it's morning where you live, afternoon where i live and even night in some places. clearly daytimes are arbitrary.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 20:00 asciilifeform: shinohai: consider vodka -- is better habit than reddit
mircea_popescu: portugal has a large redditard population and nothing else. they need weed for crowd control like the us needs prozac.
sina: sir where I live the sun is rising and where you live it may be falling
sina: but I will read the pimp article nonetheless
mircea_popescu: have you SEEN the unemployment rates in portugal ? esp among "college graduates" ? and have you seen what redditardation are portuguese unis ?
sina: mircea_popescu: I can't speak specifically of Portugal redditardation, only use in attempt of "try and argue it re drugs for instance.
mircea_popescu: ~the entire raison d'etre of portugal altogether is as "that place where black chicks from africa go to learn portuguese before being shipped to work in brazil brothels."
sina: really? I would've imagined the flow to go opposite direction
sina: I mean, from brazil to portugal
sina: GDP/capita in brazil is half of portugal? more money for the same skin
BingoBoingo: No money in portugal, because no people left who don't suck
mircea_popescu: except brazil has more industrial base than ~all of europe, and that "per capita" is bullshit as half the country lives on a dollar a day.
mircea_popescu: which leaves you with a bankrupt 5mn strong portugal and 25mn brazillians with 1mn to blow on black hookers.
sina: I guess there is no available "GDP/people who can afford brothel visits" metric
mircea_popescu: gdp is ~meaningless. it is entirely government window dressing in socialist countries, and entirely "wealth divided to random number" in sane countries. the two are distinguished by "inequality index".
BingoBoingo: GDP biases towards cows and printing presses
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 16:09 asciilifeform: now : certain processes that divide into arbitraily many - and, importantly, ~arbitrarily fungible~ slices -- are good fits for chumpnet
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 16:13 mircea_popescu: this is how conversations go -- if you're talking to alf, he's gonna mention it himself ; if talking to anyone else, you hit them over the head with it.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 16:48 asciilifeform: speaking of which, i've been wanting to discuss 'simplest cpu' for a while.
mircea_popescu: it'd quite incredible hjow much of the us is an oral culture by now. hepacitis my unicode.
mircea_popescu: if spell checkers go on strike for a week that's it for "English"
Framedragger: if this means english were to regain cases, i'm all up for it
sina: today is tax day in AU