ben_vulpes: first full day at the helm of gentoo workstation while rough, was a marked improvement over the previous wheelbarrow's spiky handles. many thanks to asciilifeform and trinque.
shinohai: I'm so accustomed to it now I can't imagine going back to my old ways.
mod6: overall fvwm works great, and opera works pretty well.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-20 17:22 asciilifeform:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-20#1672507 << mircea_popescu: consider dropping another 50MTonne кузькина мать -- looked, at least to naked eye, to have miraculous educational effect last time around
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> but ALL THAT VALUE! << Turns out the shoes and chain were both fake
shinohai makes every effort to exhaustively research his lulz
a111: Logged on 2017-06-20 16:30 phf: building wot for all comers will suffer the same fate as pgp. since nobody's using it, it turns into an arms race of easy to use, or "innovation" also known as masturbation over technical minutiae. i sort of realized this when i tried applying tmsr solutions to my cypherpunk friends: "no we don't need to research the difference between signal and telegram, just encrypt it to my gpg key and post it on dpaste or whatever." eliminated all the technical di
shinohai: ding, ding, ding! asciilifeform wins a prize!
shinohai: Stay tuned to find out why the ETH genesis block funds have moved. Absolute pin-drop silence on that one.
☟︎ erlehmann: “genesis block funds” == “premined ETH”?
ben_vulpes: mod6: neat recommendation; i'm working with an abortion called 'exwm' for now
ben_vulpes: having x windows live in emacs buffers is very low cognitive overhead
ben_vulpes: exwm puts the x window into an emacs buffer, so can eg C-x b opera
ben_vulpes: claims to, but i don't desire that at this moment
ben_vulpes: but yes, .xinitrc does consist of `exec emacs` at the moment
erlehmann: ben_vulpes asciilifeform opinion about i3?
erlehmann: everyone using tiling window management in my vincinity seems to end up there
erlehmann: one guy even wrote his own wm, then switched to i3
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> mod6: neat recommendation; i'm working with an abortion called 'exwm' for now << ah ok. this is all emacs related eh?
ben_vulpes: erlehmann: looks like something i'd have to learn in addition to emacs
erlehmann: at work, everyone who has a non-standard setup on GNU/linux, uses i3
☟︎ mod6: <+asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: ever try 'ratpoison' ? << yeah, i still need to try this
erlehmann: i3: 1. tiling, so probably not until you order it to draw title bars. 2. focus can follow mouse and windows can float, but keyboard-only use is sensible.
erlehmann: asciilifeform you probably hate plan9
erlehmann: well, they are optional. they are used because i3 can not only tile windows, but also tab them. and float them, if you *really* want to.
erlehmann: it seems way less than 100kb of c. but then there are libs.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> if answer to either 1, 2, or both, is 'yes' -- asciilifeform won't use. << wait... i thought you were big on a workstation that you could use... but this doesn't include a mouse?
mod6: do you use a graphical browser if needed?
mod6: if so, do you just use keybindings to navigate?
erlehmann: mod6 mouse-wm means mouse can have two modi. managing windows and managing application.
erlehmann: it's not? most i3 users have no use for draggable windows. the maemo wm (i forgot its name) also has none.
erlehmann: mod6 did you mean „word“ or „weird“?
erlehmann: asciilifeform what do you use as shell? i use rc shell, because grammar fits in head (actually, grammar is written on man page).
mod6: <+erlehmann> mod6 did you mean "word" or "weird"? << the former.
erlehmann: mod6 sorry then i assumed the latter (even though the keys are right next to each other)
mod6: i misspell a lot of things too. so there' that.
erlehmann: who of you except mp works on minigame?
erlehmann: it remindes me of my work on minetest, years ago
erlehmann: (apparently: minecraft clone. actually: generalized networked 3d cellular automata engine.)
Framedragger: erlehmann: i like my voxels, looks nice... generalized CA, as in, you can run arbitrary programs in the space (or somesuch)?
Framedragger: i see map generators, but that's something else, i assume the subgame thing is the way towards the "generalized"/"arbitrary"
Framedragger: oh lua, cool, is that how you write those subgames?
danielpbarron unofficially works on eulora. occasionally publishes patches to the client. almost ready to publish a eulora-gentoo recipe
☟︎ Framedragger: erlehmann: question #3 -- any recommendations for what to do in berlin in july? i'll be there with a few friends from 5 july (may travel to leipzig), random recommendations welcome (we'll visit the nsa tower/hill, etc)
ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: do you have an ebuild for it?
danielpbarron: a portage package? no. it's more of a recipe from scratch: how to install gentoo for optimal eulora
ben_vulpes: recipe for portage to make $package happen to a gentoo
trinque: btw this could be turned into a portage "set"
danielpbarron: and the way i'm writing it up, it's also a crash course on how to gentoo in general
trinque: but then you're on teh way to an ebuild anyway.
erlehmann: Framedragger each cell in minetest is potentially a lua program
erlehmann: Framedragger i can give advice, but first specify what kind of advice
erlehmann: Framedragger where will you stay? type of venue / part of city?
Framedragger: good point, i'll get back to you later. it's not a well-defined request/problem in my mind. "shit to do at night in kreuzberg / east berlin" would count, including rave parties (sounds teenage-ish when i put it like that heh)
Framedragger: erlehmann: airbnb apartment, 3-4 people, possibly neukoln or thereabouts, not sure yet
erlehmann: looking for rave culture. are you some kind of rave-apologist? maybe even a gang rave!
Framedragger: funny thing is i'm not really into raves. at the same time i have a pile of high quality mdma that i now need to dispose of, because changing country. so who knows
☟︎ Framedragger: erlehmann: i've been to c-base a coupla times, curious if there are any hackerspaces which are less about showing off and more about actual DIY projects etc (not sure if can meaningfully interact in the span of only a week tho, i guess)
☟︎ Framedragger: so like, hackerspace stuff, nice party stuff, etc.
Framedragger is also curious if isis from tor is still in berlin, too
erlehmann: i have a single, very important berlin tourism tip. avoid airbnb (and similar things) to the strongest extent possible. there are only a few faster ways to make enemies, like putting on a police uniform and visiting rigaer straße alone in the middle of the night.
Framedragger: erlehmann: girl says "wtf, plz to elaborate" :D is that due to high degree of scams, or just the high possibility of misunderstandings? (only time i used airbnb was in morocco, but that was planned well in advance, and kinda-vetted place)
erlehmann: re scammy: read reviews and think if an airbnb host with that name really exists. it may or may not do you any harm if “sarah” never shows up and is in fact a front for some rent-seeking dude.
erlehmann: furthermore, two observations, one on a systemic, one on an individual level: a) airbnb drives up rents, because it is much more profitable to (illegally) rent on airbnb than to (legally) rent to someone long-term. transients always spend more money then residents.
erlehmann: b) many airbnb guests behave in such an obnoxious way that entirely unpolitical people living in the same house hate them with a passion.
☟︎ erlehmann: by passion, i mean: some door locks are faulty and seem to spontaneously fail in the middle of the night, when you come back to the ap.
☟︎ Framedragger: basically, if we were to stay for a longer chunk of time, different arrangements would be made. very-short-term... hm, hotels are boring
erlehmann: also, did you know that frozen piss can be shoved under a door and seep into the carpet?
Framedragger: any personal experiences there? i've heard of "frozen piss" bomb concept, yeah
☟︎ erlehmann: i could not possibly comment on that
erlehmann: let's say i heard stories. or saw stuff. who knows!
jurov: O.o my first two airbnb experiences were fine, but that was in greece, they don't mind noise
☟︎ erlehmann: basically, if you want to go cheap: go to a hostel, rent a room for 4 or 6.
Framedragger notes "join erlehmann's local anarcho cell when ready" to list
erlehmann: joke's on you, i don't do such stuff
erlehmann: but i also don't have airnbn next door
erlehmann: it is just that berliners have a very good understanding of how to make people fuck off
erlehmann: example: burning cars. if your car is insured and it burns, that is not vandalism.
☟︎ erlehmann: it is most likely a tactical action to make you go away.
erlehmann: took me some time to understand that.
ben_vulpes: who gives a flying fuck about "pushing up rents" because some people rent in ways not appealing to the local statal orgs
erlehmann: more generally, communities. tourists use infrastructure, but do not always pay taxes.
erlehmann: and are on the average much bigger assholes than people living there.
ben_vulpes: if the "community" can't soak people who want to come there and spend money adequately to make tourism +ev for the hosts incl. cities, how can they even justify continuing to live
☟︎ Framedragger: gotta agree with you, #t will disdainfully sneer at "omg, kom000nity!!", but it does suck that local communities get negatively impacted in this regard
☟︎ trinque: because otherwise they'd what?
trinque: bitch about something else?
Framedragger: you mean, what's their recourse / what leverage they have? yes, not much leverage at all, sucks to be them
trinque: no. I mean if they were free of the terribru rent oppression what human flourishing would sprout in their place?
erlehmann: i think it is not about rent per se. it is about long-term renting.
ben_vulpes: same people who are flabbergasted when rents go up 5%, having never considered allocating for that scenario.
ben_vulpes: "but i'm poor and nobody taught me that rents usually go up and now my living expenses and rent max out my income!"
Framedragger: plenty of folks quite content living their frugal lives (in e.g. leipzig, from what i hear, to be particular), i guess #t doesn't think much of them, i happen to have friends, what do. if bitch at 5% rent increase, sure, not much sympathy from me
erlehmann: as i said: as a tourist, i probably would not choose airbnb in berlin. reason is that the strategy is working. less stressful to book hotel room or hostel.
erlehmann: if, on the other hand, you are looking to experience tourist hate, take an airbnb in mitte, in the vincinity of st. oberholz. take a wheelie case and new apple devices with you.
Framedragger: and emerge in late morning with frappucino and american accent "any free wifi around here, maan"
erlehmann: a suitcase on wheels marks a person like a shitstain on their pants
erlehmann: and they'll smile and take all your money
erlehmann: on the other side of the street the drink will cost half as much, but what do you know, tourist!
☟︎ Framedragger: yeah i guess that's basically 50% of berlin (*dodge*)
erlehmann: i'd also avoid berlin hacker gatherings
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 19:44 ben_vulpes: b-be less poor?
ben_vulpes: eh i don't see how "stop bitching about problems you can trivially solve without involving the state eg rent control, try moving to a neighborhood as shitty as this one was two decades ago when you crept in" is quite "slice lengthwise"
lobbes: ben_vulpes: if the "community" can't soak people who want to come there and spend money adequately to make tourism +ev for the hosts incl. cities, how can they even justify continuing to live << I grew up on The Cod in Massachusetts; "working class" locals were always bitching about how much they hated tourists, but that tourism $$$ is the ~only~ thing sustaining that particular sandbar. Fishing is dead, and retail and landscaping indus
☟︎ erlehmann: point is, it is not only working class.
trinque: erlehmann: please bridge the gap for me between "country that is welcoming a flood of foreign invaders" and "omg haet tourists, I'll torch your car"
☟︎ trinque: or is it the invaders that are actually torching cars in these towns
erlehmann: trinque refugees intend to become residents, not transients.
erlehmann: they have skin in the game, so to say
trinque: "I chose this" is I suppose one way to cope with the dick buried in your ass.
trinque: you think the same stupid arguments aren't raised every time someone improves a neighborhood anywhere else?
erlehmann: trinque it is about the specific history of berlin.
erlehmann: berlin is special, partially because both east and west used it to show off.
☟︎ erlehmann: compare, e.g. amount of vegetation inside city with other german cities. berlin has much more.
erlehmann: i think it is fairly plausible that the description of “orcs” can be read as some kind of blatant racism – “black-skinned”, “brutish”, “slant-eyed” …
☟︎ erlehmann: rohirrim are even described as white-skins, no?
trinque: who the hell is this guy, even
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 2 by 2 connections.
ben_vulpes: 'new blood' from trinque and mircea_popescu
trinque: !!v 3F2E43B45913419A7A02ED0981F4EE80C1DEF877685C5DED3BDB32D28771BFE9B
ben_vulpes: erlehmann: 'faces of meth' also entirely orcish.
Framedragger: rehashing *conclusions* of tmsr dogma does not do much good. (i guess counter to that is "we don't have time for proper free education", which is fair).
☟︎ trinque: !!v 3F2E43B45913419A7A02ED0981F4EE80C1DEF877685C5DED3BDB32D28771BFE9
deedbot: trinque unrated erlehmann.
trinque: maybe they still will get worked out
trinque: I think when I arrived I thought the place was a bunch of red-pillers
Framedragger: !!v 239BABC6689F5067B0BF7307DF8EF040B9BF1D59B457BE150A0E2A7EB3572CB8
deedbot: Framedragger rated erlehmann 1 << new blood
trinque: y'all can go hang out with Isis Hackersauce in Berlin
☟︎ erlehmann: well, i think when i arrive people often tend to think i want to convince them of something. i often do not want and do not care as much as other think i do.
Framedragger: erlehmann: "blatant racism" is an empty label here, and won't carry the same "prescriptive power" as elsewhere. that said, maybe you meant "heuristic generalisations are dangerous" (my (overcharitable) interpretation)
erlehmann: asciilifeform i spent years of my youth in a remote boarding school inside an old monastery building. not many turks or africans there.
erlehmann: asciilifeform i enjoy turkish and kurdish food, but otherwise, no idea.
trinque: fact of the matter is that he is not permitted to say.
BingoBoingo: <Framedragger> plenty of folks quite content living their frugal lives (in e.g. leipzig, from what i hear, to be particular), i guess #t doesn't think much of them, i happen to have friends, what do. if bitch at 5% rent increase, sure, not much sympathy from me << Better to be frugal and not poor
erlehmann: fact of the matter is i have not enough reference points
erlehmann: e.g. i rarely encounter black people when going to the supermarket
erlehmann: Framedragger i actually meant “i had not noticed to that extent until now how tolkien tells a story that can be seen as a race war”
BingoBoingo: <trinque> or is it the invaders that are actually torching cars in these towns << Yes, so "not crime"(TM)(R) because "honored guests
trinque: I'm still eagerly awaiting a description of these roving gangs of car burners.
☟︎ Framedragger: erlehmann: i mean, old wise men decide faith of orcs, yeah :D
Framedragger: you may be interested in "the last rinbearer" by a russian geologist (iirc), tells ring tale from perspective of mordor on a brink of industrial revolution
Framedragger: and how the elves with gandalf conspired to rewrite story ("written by the victors" and all that), and ring was actually a side plot to distract people
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> and then 4th stage is the 'gentrifying' sections of detroit, that are being rebuilt into masses of cardboard condos that sell for $1M. << St Louis appears to want to go from 3 to 4, but uncertain if three can really be moved past
Framedragger: 'tis not bad, but read only small part. decent ru->en translation by a guy on livejournal (not joking, promise)
Framedragger: oh there's a .de translation apparently, but can't attest to quality
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> you probably would not want bottom 10% of arkansas moving in , either. << FUcking peckerwood trash
erlehmann: asciilifeform you mean conflict is classist, not racist.
erlehmann: vice forgot to include that ethereum transactions are indeed reverseable, but only when core developers lose money.
Framedragger: actually, i had started reading that one, too!!
trinque: erlehmann | asciilifeform you mean conflict is classist, not racist. << the fuck kind of grandmother-pleasing behavior is this?
Framedragger: erlehmann: it's the one where (logreaders, spoilers) alien intelligence which is actually intelligent is not conscious, right?
erlehmann: trinque “grandmother-pleasing behavior”?
trinque: "I don't want to have a conversation re: invasion, so lets instead belabor whether we're all behaving ourselves."
ben_vulpes: trinque: oh hey while on the topic, best way to wind up modern genderbenders, blacklivesmatter et al feebs is to "i mean sure, but isn't that all just embedded in the class struggle?"
erlehmann: Framedragger it is the one where vampires can't do VR because they have autism and see the pixels.
trinque: ben_vulpes: correctness is a bourgeois construct.
erlehmann: ben_vulpes i think identifying as trans-black or something might top it, depending on circumstances
trinque: anyhow lets all just tweet now, eh?
trinque: erlehmann: where do I upvote your quips?
erlehmann: trinque i don't actually want to have a conversation about invasion, because i don't particularly care. i came here because of the v versionatron and because i liked the attitude behind that.
trinque: you couldn't have come to a worse place to tell us what it "means to you"
BingoBoingo: Eh, German's well on it's way to becoming Far-East-East Saint Louis
trinque: the republic's forum is not "I will posture on whichever topics don't make me uncomfortable"
trinque: then I ask you what the output of all your "the community" and "class not race" noise has been, in your own judgment?
trinque: in a place that clearly worships this "following the rules of decent discussion"
trinque: "I don't care" is the correct answer.
trinque: put usually around here as "I just want to"
erlehmann: i'll read the log again to maybe get a clear picture
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2706.49, vol: 12173.25703108 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2670.0, vol: 4613.48832 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2672.8, vol: 16199.38576081 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2881.518948, vol: 8264.71540000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2699.1, vol: 5253.7241449 | Volume-weighted last average: 2721.40543553
whaack: from what I remember reading about shitfinex, the people with pending bitcoin buy orders at X did not get theirs completed, while at the same time people were forced to sell ("margin called") because price was officially "X-E"
whaack: (not sure whether or not the unfilled buy orders on the way down occurred in this case)
Framedragger unrelatedly recalls placing orders on mtgox and getting multi-minute+ lags
☟︎ TomServo: Also, if someone could share a copy of mp-wp, that'd be swell.