log
▁⏐
erlehmann: so it turns out that thumbnailers are worse than antivirus, regarding parsing things better left unparsed
erlehmann: this made me look at a few thumbnailers available for GNOME https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=784630
erlehmann: in one, i found the exact same vulnerability
erlehmann: but in gnome-exe-thumbnailer, the filename is inserted into ad-hoc vbscript that is then executed using wine. fun stuff!
trinque: erlehmann: got a blog? I'd read.
erlehmann: trinque i sometimes write on http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/posts/index.html
erlehmann: i should probably do a writeup of the vbscript thing, it's too funny
trinque: erlehmann: consider a qntra of it
erlehmann: the only thing that prevented me from immediately gaining execution is that the created script for some reason is UTF-16 LE – and of course my code-injection-via-filename is UTF-8.
erlehmann: in other news, the base64 module in python3 will happily eat garbage and pretend it is filet mignon.
shinohai: Much like python3 pretends it is meat
erlehmann: >>> base64.b64decode(b'Vm0=')
erlehmann: b'Vm'
erlehmann: >>> base64.b64decode(b'V=m=0=w')
erlehmann: b'Vm'
erlehmann: only one of those inputs conforms to the expected grammar
erlehmann: also have you heard about getpid()
erlehmann: it became slower, or so fefe claimed
erlehmann: bonus: only affected program is systemd
trinque: erlehmann: the logs would benefit greatly from a proper writeup of these, so the next time someone goes "hurr durr $shitlang" the blog post can be linked
erlehmann: because journald spends like 95% of its time trying to find out its own pid
erlehmann: real quality software that tries to call getpid(2) >70000 times in <5 seconds
erlehmann: deedbot is funny btw
erlehmann: only client so far that answers to PING with unknown
trinque: no pings for allcomers!
erlehmann: proper OPSEC
erlehmann: i don't even know deedbot's given name!
erlehmann: meanwhile, i'll do a writeup
trinque: neato
phf: erlehmann: i think it's maybe your client that's misinterpreting the result
erlehmann: phf hmm, might be.
erlehmann: let me check
phf: not that whatever's deedbot returning is correct (nor does a111), according to my client
phf: 20:27 <freenode> CTCP-reply PING from deedbot : 521771260.04 sec
trinque: ah, I figured this was something I didn't implement.
erlehmann: it just returns [SOH]PING[SOH]
erlehmann: seems sane otherwise
trinque: I admit I went as far into IRC as to make the thing stay connected, and otherwise didn't want IRC that far into my head
trinque: the IRC bot part does very little.
erlehmann: i understand completely, i wrote an IRC client myself once.
shinohai: I like teh simplicity
erlehmann: it is very simple to just stay connected. PONG
erlehmann: telnet style
phf: hmm, odd because cl-irc defines a default handler for it..
phf: ctcp version for example leaks
trinque: hm yeah, we only added a handler for pong, not ping.
erlehmann: phf he
erlehmann: :D
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4E57E90DD90597C2D996C3D158F95E0BDBDA56B4E35C5A18FDD25E016CE40B2C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1299...5703 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '183.247.162.170 (ssh-rsa key from 183.247.162.170 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4E57E90DD90597C2D996C3D158F95E0BDBDA56B4E35C5A18FDD25E016CE40B2C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1290...0619 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '183.247.162.170 (ssh-rsa key from 183.247.162.170 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/62B75E92FE606681941AA0A26B30B63C88E6D31FF19B913EF3FEF8A5DD0969AE << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1290...0619 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '111.1.83.67 (ssh-rsa key from 111.1.83.67 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/62B75E92FE606681941AA0A26B30B63C88E6D31FF19B913EF3FEF8A5DD0969AE << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1334...5187 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '111.1.83.67 (ssh-rsa key from 111.1.83.67 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN)
erlehmann: first writeup http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/posts/python-base64-langsec-fail.html
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-14#1683550 << /me is excited☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-14 16:57 trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-14#1683508 << I'll start chopping things down and aim for it, yes.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/274CF10DC6ADAE595391AE7E26B9ECBADFA4CFB74A1C858D7F05A52D3083AE23 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1789...2259 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '93.90.177.210 (ssh-rsa key from 93.90.177.210 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ebusiness.reitze.com. DE)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/274CF10DC6ADAE595391AE7E26B9ECBADFA4CFB74A1C858D7F05A52D3083AE23 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1630...6747 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '93.90.177.210 (ssh-rsa key from 93.90.177.210 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ebusiness.reitze.com. DE)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1683928 << try, some time : BRAINSEC☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 00:24 erlehmann: proper OPSEC
asciilifeform: aka fits-in-head.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1683912 << see also http://trilema.com/2016/minigame-is-probably-never-going-to-support-python-3/☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 00:14 erlehmann: in other news, the base64 module in python3 will happily eat garbage and pretend it is filet mignon.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1683904 << try using machine without poettering on it. i recommend.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 00:06 erlehmann: this made me look at a few thumbnailers available for GNOME https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=784630
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-14#1683901 << it is not clear to asciilifeform that the 'wire 50bux to somalia and it costs 70' people are any smarter than the lottery players.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-14 23:56 lobbes: This was always amusingly contrasted with the many foreigners that worked there in the summer; they'd Western Union that shit immediately to home country.
lobbes: at least that 50bux in somalia is > 0bux. Beats lotto player, but that is a good point: after wire fees it doesn't beat it by much
lobbes: not much contrast afterall. Elliots everywhere!
BingoBoingo: Hey, Elliot avoided gambler's fallacy. Gave powerball a deadline to make his dreams come true!
mircea_popescu: hola!
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-14#1683835 << ayup☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-14 21:30 mod6: can anyone confirm if 14! is 144C3B2800 in hex?
mircea_popescu: and 15! = 2C5077D36B8C40000 16! = 3CEEA4C2B3E0D80000 17! = 57970CD7E2933680000 18! = 83629343D3DCD1C00000 19! = CD4A0619FB0907BC00000 an finally 20! = 32AD5A155C6748AC18B9A580000000
mircea_popescu: aaand 30! = 7B9A69E35CB2D866437E5C47F97AEF2C42CAEE5C00000000000 and 50! = 71864253B6AFFA79C2EA1BC52A6A1D446CA57E6FFC4196E88AF1B894823817F63F40C910E81FCC940000000000000000000 and im really impressed with my bignumatron by now
mircea_popescu: 85! = A0B8A2976BEA2078E2EB644384859F3B46323AF1FCD2BDBBA7707F6836A5F94F4EB20DDCED88F6F04D2F5C01AC3510E4A37AEBC4C5AB05C3CFA9AC51F8F3C1BB2A4A664EE145EE0BEDD1330ACE1400000000000000000000000000000000 and finally did one that took a second
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-14#1683853 << there's all kinds of cool gliding seeds, including 3 axis rotational ones.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-14 22:05 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> of course for maximal artsy i'd make your gliders asymmetrical. give it some nutty spin. << Maple seeds!
BingoBoingo: Yeah, prolly ought to assemble a variety for the artisic alien weapon expo
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-14#1683859 << not only that. they also watch porn on their bigscreen and see the girls taking it in the ass so ass-ume the gf can do the same out of the box.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-14 22:18 BingoBoingo: of grasses.
BingoBoingo: aha
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-14#1683861 << >> http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=private+%22i+don%27t+know%22+from%3Amircea☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-14 22:18 andreicon: /query mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-14#1683878 << there were those people doing "unboxing" of nuke silos iirc...☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-14 22:46 asciilifeform wonders if 'unboxing vid' for nuke has yet been filmed. if not, genre has room for growth!111
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-14#1683901 << i suspect the 40yo might have been actually getting more for his money.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-14 23:56 lobbes: This was always amusingly contrasted with the many foreigners that worked there in the summer; they'd Western Union that shit immediately to home country.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1683922 << he has a point you know. and make your own blog.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 00:18 trinque: erlehmann: the logs would benefit greatly from a proper writeup of these, so the next time someone goes "hurr durr $shitlang" the blog post can be linked
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1683969 << but if this were actually true, why is the guy not in somalia then ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 02:36 lobbes: at least that 50bux in somalia is > 0bux. Beats lotto player, but that is a good point: after wire fees it doesn't beat it by much
mircea_popescu: seems wiring money to the same idiots that made it necessary for you to abandon country and fambly with their rampant idiocy might be a worse move than just pouring it into cement.
mircea_popescu: unless, of course, he's wiring it to some radical group. though i vaguely don't expect western union would "allow" that.
erlehmann: don't worry, i'll do the “if you use chrome, wine and gnome, visiting random websites might yield vbscript” writeup sometime soon. it's too hilarious.
mircea_popescu: aite.
erlehmann: i might want to figure out the UTF-16 LE issue before that. of course, i can do my injection in UTF-16 LE, but i want to know where it comes from.
mircea_popescu: same place the fixed font thing came from we were lulzing at a few days ago
mircea_popescu: in other lulz : i took girl to strip joint crawl today. highlight of the night, this plastered drunk waitress / whore that wouldn't take 3k for a 2k tab. literally, she gave it back to me, evidently i made a mistake.
erlehmann: > drunk waitress / whore
erlehmann: seems both like jobs where being sober helps
mircea_popescu: if you're any good at it, at least.
mircea_popescu: it's incomprehensible they even manage to have strip clubs here AT ALL. the girls are so utterly innocent of anything to do with either money or fucking that they might as well be the local highschool volley team.
mircea_popescu: in fact, ~every one i've seen played soccer on the monitors. except for the one that had VERY BAD porn. i mean terribly bad.
erlehmann: i use GNU unifont wherever i can. fits in head.
erlehmann: (conceptually, at least. non-scalable 8x16 / 16x16 glyphs all the way down.)
erlehmann: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-18#1570036 << i almost smiled☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 21:29 mircea_popescu: "i'll believe it when i see it with big font in rounded corners."
erlehmann: too real
mircea_popescu: moomoos.
mircea_popescu: erlehmann anyway, it was something about how random windoze userland used arbitrary font for form making or i don't recall, some management function anyway.
erlehmann: if i recall correctly, windows has font handling at an entirely wrong abstraction level (think TTF kernel exploit)
erlehmann: https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.de/2016/06/a-year-of-windows-kernel-font-fuzzing-1_27.html
erlehmann: > One generic approach is to limit the privileges of font processing code in their respective environments, such as enforcing sandboxing of the FreeType library, or moving the font engine out of the kernel in Windows (which Microsoft has done starting with Windows 10). However, that is mostly beyond our reach.
erlehmann: madness
mircea_popescu: heh
erlehmann: so much about userland, eh?
mircea_popescu: the problem with the systemd approach to system design is that everything ends up wanting to be its own master-exceptional-class.
mircea_popescu: you see it in the dumbass faux bitcoins the usg "developers" keep producing too.
mircea_popescu: that's kinda the point no systemd detractor ever made : that systemd is fundamentally and by itself an unstable arrangement, and it'll end up stuck systemding itself to death, very much like how the dnc keeps revolutionizing itself into irrelevancy.
erlehmann: it surely has a very low bus factor.
BingoBoingo: Very high stepping in front of a bus factor though
mircea_popescu: !#s "can we have everything louder than everything else"
a111: 0 results for "\"can we have everything louder than everything else\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22can%20we%20have%20everything%20louder%20than%20everything%20else%22
mircea_popescu: really ?!
mircea_popescu: famous moment of systemd sound engineering.
mircea_popescu: Ritchie/Gillan.
erlehmann: i remember a post from “the old new thing” about “why can't we have a method to have our window on top of all others?”
mircea_popescu: erlehmann and you know what will happen -- two will call it at the same time. and you know what they'll do -- a Top.Window.Manager to handle the conflict. and so on.
erlehmann: oh, but then i looked for it and there exist several
mircea_popescu: very much india code.
erlehmann: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20110310-00/?p=11253
erlehmann: mircea_popescu in the past i wondered how people who ask that question never consider someone else might think themselves such an exceptional snowflake.
mircea_popescu: you know the cool guy joke ?
erlehmann: probably not
mircea_popescu: guy asks hotel desk to call him a cab, which they do. he gets in and not long after discovers that the madcap driver is actually not accidentally blowing a red light, but systematically blowing each and every one of them.
mircea_popescu: so he asks, hey, aren't you supposed to stop on red ? and the driver replies that he's a cool guy, an' cool guys don't have to stop for shit.
mircea_popescu: the guy is sorta pondering this away in his head, when suddenly they run into a green light and the driver breaks like all gedup.
mircea_popescu: "what the hell's the matter now ? it was green ?"
mircea_popescu: "yeah, but what if there's a cool guy coming the other way ?"
erlehmann: i must admit that cheered me up a bit, even though i knew how it would turn out halfway through :)
erlehmann: i must so the cool guy has not reached maximum snowflake
mircea_popescu: :p
erlehmann: sorry
erlehmann: sleepy
BingoBoingo was expecting peak snowflake, collision
mircea_popescu: no, the thing is the cool guy is dealing with a physical system. it has backblow, if you're too special you're not gonna be around anymore.
erlehmann: so the cool guy must not have reached maximum snowflake level (where no one else could even think themselves snowflake)
mircea_popescu: reality is self-healing, tjhat's why the pantsuits live on pizza and reddits.
mircea_popescu: or i'm sorry, "nutritionally balanced diets" and "science".
BingoBoingo: self-healing can be funny
mircea_popescu: sure.
BingoBoingo: See the green scam v. fire code http://qntra.net/2017/06/poor-brits-evacuated-from-their-warehousing-in-green-incinerators/
erlehmann: problem is timespan. systemd already could not handle an empty string and executed tasks for users named “0day” as root because names starting with numbers are hard, mmmkay?! it might take a long time before it collapses.
erlehmann: consider PHP still exists
BingoBoingo: Who needs to block egress when entire building shell can be clad in flammable polyurethane foam
BingoBoingo: PHP has a niche
mircea_popescu: erlehmann php is not a system in absolutely any sense. it is a text processor, why would it not exist.
erlehmann: also, any individual car using systemd and literally crashing because of it is unlikely to contain lennart.
BingoBoingo: It's that thing everyone assumes Phuctor uses so Phuctor gets to collect all the PHP run time exploits thrown into not a PHP run time
mircea_popescu: there is a substantial difference between someone trying to build a house with a badly formulated pi, who ends up building a spiral instead of a tower and never thereby finishing ; and someone who in his house builds a clay pot with his own hands and no potter's wheel. so what if the pot will leak ? it can hold a potted plant or whatever, hang on a wall, participate in a domestic argument...
BingoBoingo: In some of those applications, leak is a plus!
BingoBoingo: excess plant water drains through leak, nail to wall goes through other leak
BingoBoingo: Anyways, this was an excellent self healing http://qntra.net/2017/06/dead-alt-soros-no-longer-effective-in-protecting-daughter-from-truth/ Latest not news is former GOP congress critter/TV host quit GOP over hurtbutt
BingoBoingo: This is a very bullish win for leakcoin
mircea_popescu: heh
mircea_popescu: what specifically has she to leak ? titfilling ?
erlehmann: titcoin
BingoBoingo: Nah, it's the alt-soros reality distortion field leaking onto her face. Also her face was leaking blood because likely cialis can only do so much for Morning Joe.
BingoBoingo: Surgical youth simulation
BingoBoingo: The reality leaking in is that the most important man in her life is gone and the new most important man, lacks eldritch powers she is accustomed to. Whole new set of daddy issues in her fifth decade.
mircea_popescu: there's always going to be more zsa zsa gabors around than free drinks available.
BingoBoingo just wonders who had honor of destroying the phylactery
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2081.33, vol: 16109.31127362 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2076.104, vol: 7524.01997 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2080.0, vol: 32969.27098191 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2158.946676, vol: 13045.88760000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2093.71, vol: 9320.16916233 | Volume-weighted last average: 2094.56046991
mod6: mircea_popescu: thanks for the hex factorials.
mircea_popescu: yee
mod6: !W (format nil "~x" (factorial 15))
mod6: we're getting some pretty different answers actually. for 15!, i'm getting (in hex):
mod6: 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000013077775800
mod6: which is: 1307674368000 (dec)
mircea_popescu: !!up candi_lustt
deedbot: candi_lustt voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: !W (format nil "~x" (factorial 15))
candi_lustt: mircea_popescu: 13077775800
mircea_popescu: da fux
mircea_popescu: mod6 lol my values were IN HEX.
mod6: yah, saw that
mircea_popescu: 21! = 15x0! = 2C5077D36B8C40000x0
mircea_popescu: = 51090942171709440000
mircea_popescu: muh bads.
mod6: no worries! here's what i'm getting with simple `time`ings: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ucLj9/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: no time at all huh.
mircea_popescu: do 1024 ?
mircea_popescu: should be 450kb or so
mod6: lol, funny you say, just did 1024.
mod6: oh dang, wrapped nasty. hang on, will break @ 80
mircea_popescu: kk
mod6: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/a9G5F/?raw=true
mod6: lol, had to use 2**64 words with FZ(196)
mod6: 1154ms for that one
mod6: found a website that produces what seems to be the same 2193 digit value
mircea_popescu: 1s ? this is quite reasonably fast isn'rt it.
mircea_popescu: 2022 F5988 yep, right it is.
mod6: it seems to be be pretty quick, ya
mircea_popescu: !!up candi_lustt
deedbot: candi_lustt voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: !W (format nil "~x" (factorial 1024))
candi_lustt: mircea_popescu: 2022F598887B1B677793EEA7338140B96EDD924FCAB3A183421F3DCFE257E91FDB9FBDA6FDC765C78087E0AFB0469EE9DC04E88B57DBC8A8850C431640A70A5553F274CF95CF31EF50FF773BB46B4F14BADBEF976885D017EDB30CA9D17100464466D8E2C424C4EB35A8AD96698AB9DA18C5941A808585B16D700EA60FE4742B55D151D2FA72FB5314BF93374F6BA357B7E7B81928B2FCEF3B564380DC3BD2D0D3580A28D5AEAD0D707CDD521CB09F953E45849E4EA04445DB770F4473BFD62494BA215E1370DF02ADB30F0AEC0DC9ADCCC96284CF6D8FFED1DD283
mircea_popescu: she's pretty blazing also.
mircea_popescu: !W (format nil "~x" (factorial 65536))
candi_lustt: mircea_popescu: 1D1CB6CEFC854C98FC338B0A2757950AE2F876268442F789102C1C43044777BC974C055AB02139BCBD8ABA7370498742FF2D49241C3F4F2A110A0BC600280FC288996B7784835D603AEC3623C06332DDBABB7BEA4A2F777C77E7DFA4FD942821E0C0A2D28DA1D614C66E668349589EDFB477DB532EF98604FECB1A5163FD32284726321766A3BF49C4DDC16698372425A96E1AC8956FD6842D2E7991762A386515FE01FF8591FC10EA7274026D895BDF94F43042245A40A6A35003B18CA765D0B6EDE66E6BA2B0C63AF98BBF115C8533616ED83823A204963EE07F1
mircea_popescu: advance apologies to ben_vulpes
mod6: lol, im doing 65536 too
mod6: now, 2048 was ~5000ms
mircea_popescu: !W (format t "~x" (factorial 65))
mod6: but 65536, still running
mircea_popescu: !!up candi_lustt
deedbot: candi_lustt voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: !W (format t "~x" (factorial 65))
candi_lustt: mircea_popescu: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/w3k6A/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: !W (format t (factorial 65))
candi_lustt: mircea_popescu: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/dzzKA/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: !W (format nil "~6.2F" (factorial 65))
candi_lustt: mircea_popescu: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/0Xo9p/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: !W (format nil "~6,2F" (factorial 65))
candi_lustt: mircea_popescu: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/RAoX5/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: motherfucker
mircea_popescu: oh i crashed it doh
mircea_popescu: !W (DEFUN FACTORIAL (N &OPTIONAL (ACC 1)) (IF (<= N 1) ACC (FACTORIAL (- N 1) (* ACC N))))
candi_lustt: mircea_popescu: FACTORIAL
mircea_popescu: !W (format nil "~6,2F" (factorial 65))
candi_lustt: mircea_popescu: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/UjOa9/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: !W (format nil "~6,2F" (factorial 1024**2))
candi_lustt: mircea_popescu: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WsQTf/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: !W (format nil "~6,2F" (factorial (^ 1024 2)))
candi_lustt: mircea_popescu: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Alvne/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: !W (format nil "~6,2F" (factorial (* 1024 1024)))
mod6: this 65536 one is gonna run for a while i think...
mircea_popescu: well, candi's still rubbing it...
mircea_popescu: amusing life slyce right here : user will read error message after the 4th pass and not before ; and will mess up the bot after 4 tries thence.
mod6: it could be perhaps that FZ(16384) isn't long enough ... might need like 32k
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/beppo-adnotated/ << Trilema - Beppo, adnotated
mircea_popescu: btw, does asciilifeform know about the right honorable the lord brougham and vaux pc qc frs ?
mod6: ah, Ada was Lord Byron's daughter
mircea_popescu: !!up candi_lustt
deedbot: candi_lustt voiced for 30 minutes.
mod6: alright, i restarted mine.
mod6: i bumped it up to 32768
candi_lustt: mircea_popescu: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/
mircea_popescu: so almost an hour, and then failed to return. alrighty.
mod6: yeah mine is still going.
mod6: I liked your comments about byron. That was the first i've read of him.
mircea_popescu: a rlt ?
mod6: ya. heard many times, just never gave it a turn.
mircea_popescu: so how'd you find it ?
mod6: there was some warts in the prose.
mod6: as you denoted. it kept me reading, which, counts for something.
mod6: i agree about how Laura was written, pretty plain and dull.
mircea_popescu: ah, i meant the painting.
mod6: painting?
mod6: i must have missed somethin
mircea_popescu: http://aparences.net/wp-content/uploads/giorgione_laura.jpg
mod6: aha.
mod6: this seems to be the analogue of the modern-day soccer-mom 3/4 boob selfie. in the text, she criticizes her friends for being "suburban" and "dowdyish"; but to me, she seems like one of the same.
mircea_popescu: something like that
mod6: pretty ave. i'd hit it.
mod6: lol
mircea_popescu: and in other "internet is for lulz", http://www.gutenberg.org/files/43617/43617-h/43617-h.htm was downloaded... 77 times.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile faux news outlets imagine they have over a dozen readers.
mod6: heheh, "such readership"
mod6: alright, i better catch some zzzs. i'll check in on the factorial here when I wake up.
mod6: buenos noches!
mircea_popescu: buenas nachos!
sina: hola
mircea_popescu: hey
sina: how doin
sina: I just upgraded to Fedora 26 :)
mircea_popescu: not bad, whorin' and poetryin'.
sina: haha that sounds a lot more fun
mircea_popescu: tis conceivable!
sina: anyway I just wanted to test and make sure all of my things were working post upgrade
sina: not gonna hang around, got a headache
sina: have a nice evenin all
mircea_popescu: why would any bad franchise get 26 sequels anyway.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684143 << use stirling's method, or you will waste many days☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 07:20 mod6: it could be perhaps that FZ(16384) isn't long enough ... might need like 32k
asciilifeform: while we're on subj, ffa is more or less guaranteed to lose to just about any heathen bignumtron in factorial speed, and it should not be hard to see why.
asciilifeform: ( in fact it will never win speedwise against ~anything at all. but factorial is probably the worst item. )
asciilifeform: not built for speed. but for simplicity. the only concessions to optimization (karatsuba, etc) are strictly what was necessary to get to where rsa happens in merely annoying, rather than geological, time .
asciilifeform: i am considering including a karatsuba squaring case - for 2x speed boost; but that's definitely it.
asciilifeform: ( it is possible also to get 3x speed boost , on machines with 3 or moar cpu cores, on top of all, by allowing tasking ; this adds 12 or so lines. but i'd rather not , it subtracts from msdosificatability )
asciilifeform: now for the truly ugly variant, asm for the inner w*w mult gives another 2x.
asciilifeform: but wai.
asciilifeform: i kinda like it how it was : short, sweet, portable to whatever, apple2.
asciilifeform: ( it dun even need >8bit cpu, to work )
asciilifeform: btw if you're actually doing something that doesn't need constanttime, you can simply put the obvious check-for-zero in the karatsuba and get 2-9000x boost for mul.
asciilifeform: i quite deliberately did not put this in. who wants, can put in at his own peril.
asciilifeform: 1linel
asciilifeform: line.
asciilifeform: !~later tell mod6 1.326 + log2(N)/2 + (log2(N) - 1.443)*N gives bitlength of N! to 1% or so.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ( spoiler for http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684187 . )☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 12:43 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684143 << use stirling's method, or you will waste many days
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684145 << lol the original pediwikia d00d!111☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 07:26 mircea_popescu: btw, does asciilifeform know about the right honorable the lord brougham and vaux pc qc frs ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684164 << this is a hot chix, she almost has a determined, 'partizan' face.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 08:55 mircea_popescu: http://aparences.net/wp-content/uploads/giorgione_laura.jpg
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684140 << let's,☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 07:18 mod6: this 65536 one is gonna run for a while i think...
asciilifeform: !!up gribble
gribble: Error: "!up" is not a valid command.
deedbot: gribble voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: ;;calc 1.326 + log(65536)/2*log(2) + (log(65536)/log(2) - 1.443)*65536
gribble: 954012.721624
asciilifeform: almost a MB
asciilifeform: didja give it one, mod6 ?
asciilifeform: well Mb rather.
mod6: ah no. lol, it is still going.
asciilifeform: mod6: it won't affect whether it's still going, but whether you get anything resembling the correct answer on the way out
asciilifeform: or overflowola.
mod6: bingo ^
mod6: i'd rather have something sane to read at the end of the journey.
asciilifeform: meanwhile!, in sunny monkeylandia, https://archive.is/a3GZE >> 'Visa... offering up to $10,000 each to 50 U.S.-based small business owners that are committed to going cashless... "We are declaring war on cash," said Andy Gerlt, a spokesman for Visa.'
asciilifeform: mod6: notice, we could trivially trap on overflow, but that ain't constanttime!
mod6: asciilifeform: werd.
mod6: 1.326 + log(65536)/2*log(2) + (log(65536)/log(2) - 1.443)*65536 << during this exercise, i started, very quickly to see this expansion pattern. was thinking there must be some square law to predict the probable size of the outcome.
mod6: does that have a name? ^
asciilifeform: mod6: think of ffa as a soldier's entrenching spade. you wouldn't dig a foundation for a new house with it. but it is bare naked simple, + adequate and entirely so for entrenching, and for the occasional bout of hand-to-hand.
asciilifeform: mod6: stirling's method
mod6: coool
asciilifeform: well, numerical fudge thereof
mod6: sure, but perhaps, getting one close is good enough in this case.
mod6: asciilifeform: entrenching tool, aha.
mod6: ok ima kill this off then throw in some 1mb FZ
asciilifeform: mod6: if you actually had to work with Mb-sized ints regularly, you'd want fft mul
asciilifeform: which, btw, imho is intrinsically unsuitable for a fits-in-head rsatron, it is extremely gnarly and uses float approximations that get magically unfudged back to int, etc
asciilifeform: mod6: other thing, since ffa is constant time, your N! is in O(N) (if mul were considered a constant op and brought outside of the brackets. which is is, 10! with 4096bit ffa, takes exactly C longer than 9! with 4096bit ffa. etc )
asciilifeform: you can immediately say how long the thing will take.
asciilifeform: just determine the C, and multiply.
asciilifeform: mod6: re upstack, http://mathworld.wolfram.com/StirlingsApproximation.html has the details.
mod6: aha. gotcha.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> which, btw, imho is intrinsically unsuitable for a fits-in-head rsatron, it is extremely gnarly and uses float approximations that get magically unfudged back to int, etc << ugh. right.
mod6: you want me to post my code before I run this again?
asciilifeform: sure
mod6: aight, just a sec.
asciilifeform: on my box, a 1048576bit ffa has a 240ms mul.
asciilifeform: so,
asciilifeform: !~calc 0.240 * 65536
jhvh1: asciilifeform: 0.240 * 65536 = 15728.64
asciilifeform: sec. for mod6's thing, approx.
asciilifeform: ( the increment is about 4ms each, so neglected )
mod6: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/EosZp/?raw=true
asciilifeform: ugh
asciilifeform: why do you have a ffa-wide comparison in there.
asciilifeform: use a human integer as the counter
asciilifeform: and go up by 1
asciilifeform: ( FZ_Add(F, ... whatever )
mod6: ooh. for some reason, i didn't think that it could?
asciilifeform: what's to keep you ?
asciilifeform: you don't need to examine F for any reason
asciilifeform: or O
mod6: i dunno, just the strict types thing.
asciilifeform: O can start at 1, and get incremented (with FZ_Add) I times ( for i ..... loop)
asciilifeform: there's no type rape, because you don't use i for anything but to do the thing i times
mod6: ah, ok. duh. lemme see here...
asciilifeform: also you got a bunch of ??? in there (what does IO do ? )
mod6: ah, that was used for some debugging
mod6: will axe
mod6: anyway, got some chores to do, will have to come back to this later.
asciilifeform: gimme 1s
asciilifeform: mod6: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/TvufZ/?raw=true << replace 10 with whatever
asciilifeform: also you forgot, in the original, to divide the length of ffa by 64 (bits), yours will blow up instead of run, gcc by default does not give infinite stack
asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/2GCid/?raw=true << 'purist' version
asciilifeform: ( where we do as i said, incrementing the T , using i for nothing but loop )
asciilifeform: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: asciilifeform: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2049.99, vol: 21747.98828631 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2040.0, vol: 9897.42431 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2049.9, vol: 43773.46200243 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2108.925036, vol: 16981.30690000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2041.956, vol: 12025.5025457 | Volume-weighted last average: 2057.66403319
asciilifeform: cheapcoinz!!1111
trinque: asciilifeform, I put my life savings into bitcoin at $3k, please help
asciilifeform helps
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/BD9C3B8922865EF3611398E882E6EED96E77A5FC17B29E50A29915F8B7D0875A << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1362...5743 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '88.80.194.26 (ssh-rsa key from 88.80.194.26 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (vcvps476.vcdns.de. DE NW)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/BD9C3B8922865EF3611398E882E6EED96E77A5FC17B29E50A29915F8B7D0875A << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1733...4117 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '88.80.194.26 (ssh-rsa key from 88.80.194.26 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (vcvps476.vcdns.de. DE NW)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684006 << via this, found >> http://unifoundry.com/pub/unifont-10.0.05/unifont-10.0.05.bmp << which is lulzy, weep at the sheer bulk of the orc hieroglyph liquishit☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 05:13 erlehmann: i use GNU unifont wherever i can. fits in head.
asciilifeform: ( why was it necessary to unicodize the fucking hieroglyphs ? even supposing the chinese are inseparable from them. why not simply carry them as bitmap matrix.)
erlehmann: asciilifeform the sole purpose of unicode is to replace all other glyph standards. from that follows all else, i.e. incorporation of wingdings, emoji, etc.
asciilifeform: it is rampaging idiocy
erlehmann: what do you suggest as an alternative?
erlehmann: switching encodings needs out of band signaling which IMO is worse
asciilifeform: mno.
asciilifeform: people who want to use hieroglyphs, should be passing around bitmaps.
asciilifeform: they wanna say 妓 -- let'em be stuck saying 32 bytes (16x16 bit matrix, more than enough for any hierohorror) rather than 2 bytes !!!
erlehmann: what actually happened is that people who wanted to use hieroglyphs passed around codes such as A13 – a standard reference exists (gardiner's sign list) that was incorporated into unicode
erlehmann: that's all
asciilifeform: definitely not 'all'
asciilifeform: it's a shambling horror, with empty desert, duplicated glyphs, no particular rhyme or reason, and all the consistency of microshit
erlehmann: okay, but most of it. a special interest group (egyptologican geeks) used a glyph standard. unicode swallowed that standard. this is how it usually goes.
erlehmann: also, for everyday communication i find E1, E2, E3, E4 etc. much better than trying to pass around bitmaps
asciilifeform: this nonsense has no future, erlehmann .
asciilifeform: dun wanna pass bitmaps -- use godly alphabets.
asciilifeform: with $smallint number of glyphs.
erlehmann: can it be that your complaint is more with the egyptian glyphs than with unicode itself?
asciilifeform: mno, that'd be mircea_popescu's.
erlehmann: some writing systems contain non-abstract symbols. all the same to me, as long as everything fits in 16×16 bits.
asciilifeform: though i definitely see the strength of his argument, that people who use more glyphs than there are keys on keyboard, have severe problem, and their place is by the cultural latrine, and not bloating the os for civilized folx
asciilifeform: erlehmann: didja ever read the pernicious-standardization thread in the logz ?
erlehmann: no, link?
erlehmann: asciilifeform i strongly suspect you do not distinguish between complexity and sheer numbers. i saw bloat always as referring to needless complexity, size of something only as evidence, not as bloat itself.
asciilifeform: gonna tell me that hieroglyphic writing is not needless bloat ?
asciilifeform: if i start writing english as strings of 16-bit indices into the oxford dictionary, people will laugh.
asciilifeform: but for some reason will not laugh if chairman mao does the same thing.
asciilifeform: why not?
asciilifeform: why, because 'come to expect' ?
asciilifeform: fuck that, with red hot poker.
erlehmann: one point is that incorporating something in unicode does not increase processing complexity by any means. i actually installed a new version of unifont on an old phone and instantly it could display all the new characters.
asciilifeform: the mere possibility of 'new characters' is antisanity.
erlehmann: so if code does not care if there exist 250 or 2500 or 250000 characters, why should i?
asciilifeform: well for starters 250,000 > 65536
asciilifeform: so you now have either 24bit chars, or O(N) stringlen operator.
erlehmann: that turns out to be a problem with the abysmally bad TTF file format.
asciilifeform: you want to tell me that this is not a cost ?
erlehmann: yes, but this cost has already been incurred. unicode actually tried to prevent too many new characters in the past, leading to misfeature han unification.
asciilifeform: just like the poettershits convinced idiots that 16bit chars were 0cost
asciilifeform: it has NOT been incurred.
erlehmann: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_unification
asciilifeform: i do not write non8bit text processors, and don't intend to ever.
erlehmann: chinese, japanese, korean now share unihan, with all the processing complexity and technical debt incurred from that
erlehmann: asciilifeform ok enjoy your latin1 while it lasts.
asciilifeform: 'it lasts' lol
asciilifeform: from my cold dead hands, motherfuckers.
erlehmann: version 1 of unicode was designed to keep under 16 bits
asciilifeform: incidentally i use 'orc glyphs' every day. koi8 etc.
erlehmann: in those days, only ~21k characters were reserved for CJK
erlehmann: which obviously is not enough (i read something about ~100k characters being enough)
jurov: "incorporating something in unicode does not increase processing complexity" orly? maybe unless you want to do anything interesting with the text, like... count the characters. or case convert. or detect whitespace. or compare two strings. or...
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-23#1631972 << 1 'standards' thread☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-23 18:21 mircea_popescu: this notion that i will support the wintel FOR FREE is the lolz of all time.
erlehmann: asciilifeform thx
erlehmann: jurov converting case is locale-specific, therefore better left undone.
jurov: dude. all of above is locale specific
erlehmann: also, comparing two strings should be done bytewise, always. everything else is madness.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Amircea_popescu+unicode << in there somewhere
erlehmann: character count and whitespace is locale specific? AFAIK whitespace is an ENUM
erlehmann: one with only 25 members, seems sensible
jurov: erlehmann my language has such a delightful case of "ch" character. which is a "digraph" and to be counted as one char.
jurov: and collated in between h and k
jurov: unicode has zillions if these cases
erlehmann: well, if ch is one character, i rather have it as one codepoint.
erlehmann: instead of having to postprocess ASCII
jurov: your client will not supply it as one
jurov: they will just expect it to work
jurov: there are plenty of articles "what programmers mush know about unicode" with such gotchaz. just educate yourself.
jurov: *must
erlehmann: ch does not exist as unicode ligature, but as i understand distinguishing characters is one of the problems unicode is at least intended to solve. as soon as everyone uses Æ for “ AE” the postprocessing is no longer needed.
erlehmann: note that postprocessing is always wrong.
erlehmann: in standard german, ß / ẞ / ss / SS are not ambiguous, but in german variants that do not use ß / ẞ, the ss / SS could be a digraph depending on context.
erlehmann: e.g. those who do not use ß / ẞ write “Der grosse Duden” instead of “Der große Duden”
asciilifeform: ᛋᛋ !
erlehmann: asciilifeform unicode has you covered
erlehmann: i suggest put the following in your .XCompose if you use X11
erlehmann: <Multi_key> <N> <S> <D> <A> <P> : "卐" U5350 # CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-5350
asciilifeform: lol
erlehmann: it nicely complements what they already have out of the box
erlehmann: compose + C C C P → ☭
phf: fwiw unifont is not even the whole story. consider extensions like CTL, which allows you to have special rendering for a sequence of glyphs. a completely separate technology from ligatures and combining characters, but part of the standard never the less.
erlehmann: phf unifont actually leaves out shitstains like arbitrarily combining glyphs to make national flags.
erlehmann: i just see „DE“ surrounded by a special frame instead of a german flag
erlehmann: and i like it that way
phf: well, without such a "shitstains" you can't for example render arabic or iranian in any meaningful way
erlehmann: no color on my terminal please
erlehmann: unless i made it
phf: combining glyphs to make national flags is yes yet another extension
erlehmann: and one introduced because unicode consortium was sick of other misbehaving standards bodies (ISO country codes), ha-ha!
mod6: <+asciilifeform> also you forgot, in the original, to divide the length of ffa by 64 (bits), yours will blow up instead of run, gcc by default does not give infinite stack << ah thanks for making the changes asciilifeform. bak now. will try this out...
asciilifeform: erlehmann: the 'ligature' liquishit had almost 600 motherfucking years, to get lost, now. since gutenberg.
mod6: one thing, that i never really thought about is going the other direction; 1 * 2 * 3 ...
asciilifeform: if you don't have a gutenberg-compatible alphabet for your language, it is defective .
erlehmann: asciilifeform nichts hält so lange, wie ein provisorium!
asciilifeform: lol
mod6: when I do the factorials in my head, i seem to start with the bigger end for some reason.
mod6: but ofc, computers don't care.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684189 << tis nevertheless important to see how much.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 12:45 asciilifeform: while we're on subj, ffa is more or less guaranteed to lose to just about any heathen bignumtron in factorial speed, and it should not be hard to see why.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the difficulty is in predicting how long ops take on heathentron, not on ffa ( which is deadly linear for all ops )
mircea_popescu: no argument. but i am a practical man and i like plugging things in.
asciilifeform: ( see further in same thread )
asciilifeform: 1 ffa mult for B-bit regs take time T. 9000 of them take time 9000T. guaranteed.
asciilifeform: sorta why the thing even exists.
mircea_popescu: again, no argument. T needs to be measured, factorial is a fine case to measure it in, we don't resort to the lab when we wish to prove theory wrong but in all cases and at all times because we like the lab.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in the army, http://68.media.tumblr.com/900d9a19e3797d8e49d3cae388b0ce63/tumblr_o7m7l34i1B1vv8p8co1_1280.jpg
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: another fine experiment is to do 9000 mults of B-bit rngolade. demonstrates that the payload really has 0 impact on time.
asciilifeform: ( to the extent such a thing is to be demonstrated experimentally. )
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: verified experimentally.
asciilifeform: it doesn't relieve of the burden of having to actually prove correctness tho.
mircea_popescu: does not relieve anything, it's just something you do.
mircea_popescu: not for a purpose but because it's there.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684202 << ah good, i was just digging this up.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 14:24 asciilifeform: !~later tell mod6 1.326 + log2(N)/2 + (log2(N) - 1.443)*N gives bitlength of N! to 1% or so.
mod6: ok factorial of 65536 with's alf's changes is running.
mod6: salud
mircea_popescu: and yes, brougham is a monument of socialist retardation. devout abolitionist (which, incidentally, is coming together in my mind as the spot where western civilisation actually went off-course, early 1800s), argued with young re wave form of light, argued with some statistician re solar spots impact on wheat prices, tellingly thought everyone else unscientific and by comparison to his bright mind very stupid indeed and perp
mircea_popescu: etually tried to control all aspects of government.
mircea_popescu: he could as well be their fucking patron saint, the party of vaux.
mircea_popescu: ftr, 1M factorial < 19.5MB
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684225 << lelz.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 15:09 asciilifeform: meanwhile!, in sunny monkeylandia, https://archive.is/a3GZE >> 'Visa... offering up to $10,000 each to 50 U.S.-based small business owners that are committed to going cashless... "We are declaring war on cash," said Andy Gerlt, a spokesman for Visa.'
asciilifeform: exercise for reader : write equation to predict, within 1 minute, how long N! takes on your box in ffa
asciilifeform: ( i could instead say '1 msec' but crystal jitter, interrupts, etc )
mircea_popescu: notice how this works : visa is sending "up to $10k in bitcoin" to its own bitcoin addresses to claim "people" have "invested" in whatever nutty bullshit faux coin they have going ; visa is sending "up to 10k" faux news on dead paper to its own offices to claim someone actually gives a shit what the new york times says on any topic ; visa is then giving 10k in cash to 50 of its own merchants to pretend like you and i should d
mircea_popescu: o things this way rather than that...
mircea_popescu: visa could totally buy russia, if russia were dumb enough.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684252 << funny, i was expecting a few hours. apparently guessatron not that badly oiled either.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 15:29 asciilifeform: sec. for mod6's thing, approx.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684284 << dude LOOK AT THAT BULSHIT. fucking azns already.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 16:40 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684006 << via this, found >> http://unifoundry.com/pub/unifont-10.0.05/unifont-10.0.05.bmp << which is lulzy, weep at the sheer bulk of the orc hieroglyph liquishit
mircea_popescu: there is NO REASON to continue the nonsense. learn a language.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684289 LEARNING A LANGUAGE. accepting that chinese is not a language ; accepting in order to accept that the simple annd obvious fact thjat your mother and father, if you're chinese, were FOR THAT REASON idiots and imbeciles ; and for the reason also that their parenjts in their turn -- idiots and imbeciles.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 16:44 erlehmann: what do you suggest as an alternative?
mircea_popescu: coming to that minimal point of self-awareness any bimbo with half a peanut in her skull manages in fact to come to, where she realises it's not the fucking squiglies painted on her nails that make her unique.
asciilifeform: hey, mao did answer 'but your father swallowed french revolution, we dun know which is more lethally stupid yet'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but we DO know mine still permits the use of language.
BingoBoingo: <erlehmann> asciilifeform ok enjoy your latin1 while it lasts. << 卍 We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children 卍
mircea_popescu: i'm not proposing a sorting here. i am just proposing they notice the parts of their skull made of cow dung.
asciilifeform: i'm a bit surprised that pantsuits have not yet attempted to transform english into 'wordicode', a la http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684311 .☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 16:57 asciilifeform: if i start writing english as strings of 16-bit indices into the oxford dictionary, people will laugh.
asciilifeform: choose-from-these-palace-approved-words.
mircea_popescu: they're glacially going that way.
mircea_popescu: look at bureaucrat wank, it's directly translatable to word table.
asciilifeform: newspeak(tm)(r)
mircea_popescu: "oh but all teh great literature shall be lost" hurr durr. egyptian had just as great literature. JUST as great. its loss was thought important for centuries, before drunk soldiers broke the code and it was discovered -- egyptian literature is barely fit to grace toilet paper.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684298 << yes, this is how socialism always goes. not how "it" "usually" goes. when the socialists are involved -- always goes. when they are not -- never goes.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 16:50 erlehmann: okay, but most of it. a special interest group (egyptologican geeks) used a glyph standard. unicode swallowed that standard. this is how it usually goes.
mircea_popescu: we are the never goes camp.
erlehmann: i think it is not about the literature. i think it is to cater to the special interest groups.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684303 << the complaint is about the concept of tolerance, equality and so on.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 16:51 erlehmann: can it be that your complaint is more with the egyptian glyphs than with unicode itself?
erlehmann: unicode consortium sees group using not-unicode, swallows.
erlehmann: to me that is not tolerance, but annexation
mircea_popescu: there shall be no equality, and there shall be no tolerance. black man either dresses like white man or picks cotton.
erlehmann: logic of empire
BingoBoingo: <erlehmann> i think it is not about the literature. i think it is to cater to the special interest groups. << Maybe these groups need specialler interests?
mircea_popescu: erlehmann but that's prtecisely what tolerance is. an ill designed attempt to swallow.
erlehmann: mircea_popescu empire does not pretend equality, but tolerance it has. EU has 23 official languages AFAIK.
erlehmann: just pay your taxes and you'll be spared from war or worse!
mircea_popescu: and is going to shit. BECAUSE of it. not simply "in the time of it", but BECAUSE of it.
mircea_popescu: and i don't mean, because eu bureaucrats tolerate greek, eu is going to shit. i mean -- because eu has absolutely no project (which is the direct equivalent) everyone is only there while the food flows. and furthermore, because the men tolerate the misbehaviours of the women, the countries are dropping off thje map, and so on.
mircea_popescu: erlehmann security, yeah, that old "come be eaten by ants for you're too scared of hunting bear"
erlehmann: i thought singular project is interconnection. make war less profitable than peace.
mircea_popescu: this is simply a restatement of the foregoing idiocy.
erlehmann: consider that idiots like hitler, napoleon etc. pp. found war more profitable than peace
mircea_popescu: "make domestic arguments less profitable than watching tv". this isn't washing the dishes.
mircea_popescu: erlehmann war IS more profitable than peace. whether you find this or not.
erlehmann: mircea_popescu it's only war in europe that is made less profitable. lots of wars to shop around for otherwhere.
mircea_popescu: war makes the only thing peace never can, that is -- empty space. the value of empty space varies, from negative after a war to infinite during socialism.
erlehmann: [[lebensraum intensifies]]
mircea_popescu: erlehmann and yet, funnily, everyone comes to make war in europe. and yet, funnilky enough, the byzantine empire still prays to their legions in heaven, notwithstanding the reality daily debunk
asciilifeform: 'war was invented by people living downstream of herds' (tm)(r)(uncle al)
erlehmann: asciilifeform can you actually see ™ and ® btw?
asciilifeform: erlehmann: on some boxes yes, on some -- no
erlehmann: asciilifeform what you think of unifont hex file format?
asciilifeform: erlehmann: see the earlier thread /
asciilifeform: ?
asciilifeform: multibyte chars == crock of shit
asciilifeform: and fuck the hieroglyphists with their own severed limbs.
erlehmann: no, just the hex file format
asciilifeform: there is no 'no, just'.
mircea_popescu: erlehmann let me tell you a story. after the fall of the romanian socialist republic, people were left with no practically useful skills and no capital. a mad rush to accumulate both ensued, which was subsidiarily great because it put young people above old people and as a result produced the only sort of society worthj living in -- with anxiety way way underregulated. now then -- what did the old people do, as their principa
mircea_popescu: l neo-society endeavour ?
erlehmann: i created unifont glyphs using emacs and sed
mircea_popescu: do guess, you i hear are from the right germany to guess./
erlehmann: mircea_popescu would you explain regulation of anxiety?
erlehmann: maybe an idiom i do not understand
mircea_popescu: yes. if you permit the woman to act out her "worry" about "What may happen" you will sink. if you beat her black and blue every time she worries -- about anything, you'll suddenly get great parties.
mircea_popescu: you won't get a bike helmet industry, which is a tolerable loss.
erlehmann: sounds like what a qualified cognitive-behavioural therapist would say indeed!
mircea_popescu: (helmets -- great. the process that normally produces them -- poison)
mircea_popescu: alright, now to the question.
erlehmann: process that produces them → people die from head injuries?
mircea_popescu: no. people worring about people drying from head injuries.
mircea_popescu: note helmet works -- before the fact. it's not fucking antibiotics.
mircea_popescu: process that produces antibiotics -> people needing to hold on to a tree while peeing.
erlehmann: large scale deployments are always driven by statistics. i once read that many stats have no bike helmet laws because lawmakers are convinced this would reduce biking to the point where more cardiovascular diseases outrun benefits of less head injuries.
erlehmann: s/stats/states/
mircea_popescu: this is not so, but let us not diverge any more. what did the old people do, as their principal neo-society endeavour ?
erlehmann: collect bottles, receive monies?
erlehmann: what poor old people do, right?
mircea_popescu: no. wanna try more or satisfied ?
erlehmann: not in the mood for guessing history i'm not familiar with
mircea_popescu: you probably are familiar with, but anyway : they ~~~ENCLOSED THEIR BALCONIES~~~.
mircea_popescu: this is to say, standard soviet matchbox dwelling, like berlin is still full of, came from the maker with a "balcony", which was open to the outside. they -- paid, scions of the decrepit metalworking industry, to solder/weld/glue to the balustrades ugly scrap metal pikes and pipes, and in between them put glass.
mircea_popescu: just as soon as they managed to get a little capital, which is to say money not needed day to day, they stuck it in this deeply improductive activity. not went to istanbul to buy cheap colorful crap to resell, not anything else.
mircea_popescu: why ? because even in their sclerotic stupid fucking heads that should by rights have been taken off en masse at the very onset, the value of SPACE exceeded all other values.
mircea_popescu: the ~only thing all survivors of socialism agreed on, even the ones too dumb to live.
mircea_popescu: even if it was a little meaningless bit of useless space misplaced and so on.
asciilifeform: dingdingding winnner
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's grandfather indeed with own hands enclosed the balcony
mircea_popescu: now tell me they did not do this in berlin and i shall not believe you.
asciilifeform: and today asciilifeform spends manymanybux on... space.
asciilifeform: for the sake of space.
mircea_popescu: instead tell me you were there while it happened and didn't notice, and i shall believe it, but also point to it for your benefit.
asciilifeform: and it ain't useless space, either, i like my current dig mainly for the enclosedbalcony. sunlight, it's a thing.
mircea_popescu: space, in socialism, is worth ten thousand wars.
mircea_popescu: to use a chinese idiomatic which, oddly, i can actually introduce without importing shitsquiggles.tiff first.
mircea_popescu: perhaps because man with superior encoding is superior man. or shall we say MMMMMMMMMMx instead.
trinque: I was relating the uniturd thread to $girl in the pool just now, and she challenged erlehmann to start writing software in emojis. and if not, why communicate with it.
asciilifeform: trinque: apl!
asciilifeform: http://xahlee.info/comp/unicode_APL_symbols.html << it's in there, apparently.
asciilifeform: ( bonus xah lee ! )
trinque: http://www.chilton.com/~jimw/a2ap1g1.gif << oh jesus christ
erlehmann: trinque we'll start here http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/bin/unicode
asciilifeform: i dun actually hate apl. it ain't chinese liquishit, is actually pretty small and readable alphabet. that probably oughta have occupied the upper half of ansi 8bit coding, instead of the rubbish that's in there nao.
trinque: erlehmann: been treated amply in logs you haven't read
mircea_popescu: such a texan this guy.
erlehmann: i should read more
erlehmann: logs are life of irc channels
erlehmann: i noticed once logs of another channel were gone
trinque: asciilifeform: if it had found its way into ansi, the shitgnomes would've demanded moar glyphs, and ended up in exactly the same place
asciilifeform: trinque: there weren't any shitgnomes yet.
trinque: so?
mircea_popescu: trinque your girl is in for a lot of anal, i guess.
trinque: ahaha fucked into nap already
mircea_popescu: lel
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform wtf yet lol. there is no such time there weren't. AN END TO SLAVERY!
asciilifeform: http://www.asciitable.com/index/extend.gif << oblig 8thbit liquishit
asciilifeform: бНОПНЯ ВХРЮК!!!!
trinque: ^ question marks in my term. zealotry!
BingoBoingo: <erlehmann> large scale deployments are always driven by statistics. i once read that many stats have no bike helmet laws because lawmakers are convinced this would reduce biking to the point where more cardiovascular diseases outrun benefits of less head injuries. << For all the idiocies Illinois does participate in, it refrains from helmet laws. This means the occasional perosn riding a chromed up cruisers with a DOT non-compliant Pick
BingoBoingo: elhaube and buncha kids riding in organ donation mode
asciilifeform: 'Знает каждый на Руси - вХРЮК, оХГДЕЖ и МЮ УСИ' (tm)(r)
erlehmann: trinque if ${girl?} wanted to make a joke, she should know: APL is not the worst offender, merely the first. rules for identifiers in c# correspond to unicode standard annex 15.
trinque: she had a joek of the pointed variety.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684311 << the amusing part here is that ~possibly~, as an entirely speculative, rather literary than linguistic notion, the chinese started out early, and as such started out small : they had but 8 or so letters, which they combined in words (with silent winds, as was the fashion 5000 years pre-magdalene). as the complexity driven by a large empire ever piled, these short and few letters sta☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 16:57 asciilifeform: if i start writing english as strings of 16-bit indices into the oxford dictionary, people will laugh.
mircea_popescu: rted to carry multiple meanings. FILIP B is still how you say philip the 2nd in greek to this day, because B is also 2. it means a number of things, and if you didn't know "set" is the english word with the largest number of meanings.
mircea_popescu: now -- birthday paradox, you only get 8 boxes you end up with a LOT of meanings.
mircea_popescu: then they made the stupid move of coming up with separate notiations for the 16 meanings of the letter tsa.
mircea_popescu: thereby coming up with the confucianist horror we all know and loathe today.
erlehmann: BingoBoingo i recall there was a study about helmet laws https://msu.edu/~telder/donorcycles6-10-09.pdf
erlehmann: > estimates imply that every death of helmetless imbecile prevents or delays as many as 0.33 deaths among imbeciles on transplant waiting list
trinque: I'm still an idiot flash-card-level student of latin, but worth discussing that as the standard for "proper alphabetical lang". even things like "afui" make me feel like a bumbling idiot when in english I have to say "I was away". only way with pictographs to combine meanings and generate new would seem to be "well yeah, go with me on this one, but this one is sorta related-looking to these other two"
trinque dun see how it could be anything but the squashiest of thinking tools
BingoBoingo: erlehmann: Anyways the point is, even pickeljaube still can't make Illinois as cool as Missouri where people wear DOT helmets, but are allowed to attach scabbard and ride with carbine on steel horse
trinque: or god, "having been built" -> "aedificatus" iirc
trinque: you'd have more symbols than atoms in universe by long
trinque: or more likely, never turn combinations into their *own* singular concepts, upon which to build other relationships in mind
asciilifeform: trinque: wait till you remember that the cn folx are fractally damaged, they can't ~speak~ like normal humans either, gotta do this 11-tone singsong thing
trinque: you know, ABCDEFG has this relationship with JKERQ
asciilifeform: ( at least jp moved away from this some time bc )
trinque: standardizing writing *below* concepts appears the only possible sanity
mod6: BingoBoingo: that is pretty cool
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684534 << afaik there is 0 evidence of their ever having had a syllabulary... pictograph liquishit from cave drawings to today.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 18:45 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684311 << the amusing part here is that ~possibly~, as an entirely speculative, rather literary than linguistic notion, the chinese started out early, and as such started out small : they had but 8 or so letters, which they combined in words (with silent winds, as was the fashion 5000 years pre-magdalene). as the complexity driven by a large empire ever piled, these short and few letters sta
asciilifeform: ( with obvious 'man', 'woman', 'cow', etc stick figures still embedded in the most vintage glyphs )
mircea_popescu: trinque the sad news being that your equivalences are very much in the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-14#1683821 vein. if the built were a girl you'd say it differently.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-14 20:29 phf: asciilifeform: i used to try and clarify the inflection, but then realized that it's mostly meaningless for the anglophones. so however much it grates,
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform most languages were notated after long time spoken though.
asciilifeform: troo
mircea_popescu: now, if the jews and other golden crescents notated six centuries later whereas the chinese notated a few centuries before but a language already 2500 years old...
mircea_popescu: ie, they possibly spoke too soon.
trinque: mircea_popescu: said differently without writing differently?
mircea_popescu: no, written also aedificata.
trinque: ah, well sorta still works. meant that in latin the user can generate concepts on the fly, and have them known as singular items upon which to anchor others
trinque: and I don't see how this'd not be way more cumbersome with the ideographs
mircea_popescu: anyway. your chief point is correct, in that flexion is pure lisp for language, that i even to this day can say inexistent words whose meanings are directly evident to romanian speakers is a large matter. english even has rudiments of proper flexion, i can say "the built" and it connotes, but not to all speakers.
mircea_popescu: trinque exactly.
asciilifeform: english has tattered remnants of various attributes of proper human tongue
mircea_popescu: this is why i like that romanian cartoon series, "robotzi". they do it extensively, to breaking point. single example : at some point one says to the other "daca stiam c-ai sa ajungi un ghetzalit nespalat". this is evidently in standard romanian "if i knew you'll end up and unwashed ???". the ??? is iffy, because ghetzalit is not a word in romanian. in fact, it's a construction : ghetz is how you say sperm in hungarian, and -
mircea_popescu: it is the correct mark of the perfective participle in this circumstance. so "cumfaced" i guess.
mircea_popescu: this is done universally and to everything, german, russian, turkish. zdreantsa!
mircea_popescu: "romanian thinks all other languages are badly written romanian", and this because it actually continues latin.
asciilifeform: how do you even say, e.g., отпидарашенный, in engl.
asciilifeform: afaik you can't. it turns into a whole paragraph.
mircea_popescu: same exact principle. czar, eh ? :D
asciilifeform: ( was my guess for == to 'ghetzalit' btw )
asciilifeform: neither is in the oxford dictionaries.
asciilifeform: but made of same cloth.
mircea_popescu: nor, and here's the important point, and the utf bane, nor could!
mircea_popescu: you can not, still to this day, in spite of all sort of "published research", include a statement of its own coherence in a coherent system sufficiently complex (so as to include a statement of certain mathematical truths...)
mircea_popescu: the problem with bureaucrats is that it universally is not possible to provide them with an above-secondary education.
mircea_popescu: consequently they form a highschooler's toolbox and then go build themselves monumental graves.
asciilifeform: one could attempt a, say, 'be-arsewaltzed' but not same effect. and doesn't generalize.
mircea_popescu: the latter being also the chief point.
mircea_popescu: which brings a different matter home : traduttore tradditore etcetera, but only if trying to cross the human-monkey linguistic divide.
asciilifeform: ^
asciilifeform: translating to engl always feels like hand-compiling to risc asm
mircea_popescu: (amusingly, 1800s public person is on teh record saying you can readily understand so-and-so's broken romanian : first, transl;ate it back to german.)
asciilifeform: a line becomes a para becomes a page ....
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform rather.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> the problem with bureaucrats is that it universally is not possible to provide them with an above-secondary education. << AHA, they pursue baccalaureate education in studying their High School experiences
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/07/bitcoin-network-difficulty-spiked-13-53-this-week/ << Qntra - Bitcoin Network Difficulty Spiked ~13.53% This Week
mircea_popescu: heh
asciilifeform: speaking of risc asm, asciilifeform found out that ppc has a nonconstanttime iron mul.
asciilifeform: ppc users MUST use an egyptological w_mul...
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684317 relates to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-28#1675632 and in general is a very fucking important point. what do you expect NEW characters could POSSIBLY mean to you ? they're new ergo meaningless! they have to be! "oh but guess from context what could it mean" is the typical ustardian delusion.☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 16:58 asciilifeform: the mere possibility of 'new characters' is antisanity.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 02:19 mircea_popescu: there's no peer discovery as a gossipd function ; at all times it knows already all the peers it will ever know. in lawyer speak this is called "never ask a question you don't know the answer to."
mircea_popescu: "guessing from context" does specifically and fundamentally not work.
mircea_popescu: re which, i heartily recommend http://trilema.com/2016/vacation/ for the ustard "guessing from context" what rimjob means
mircea_popescu: "i mean, what could it be, right ?"
mircea_popescu: aka "i am a human perfect in every way and equal to all others, what could there be that's not directly obvious to me as well as anyone"
asciilifeform: 'new characters', e.g. integral sign, are MINDBOGGLINGLY EXPENSIVE. to the point where i dun expect to ever live to see a halfway justified case for one.
asciilifeform: not 'let's make a new smiley with ebola face', no.
asciilifeform: anyone recall how long punctuation marks took, to catch on?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684325 << no socialism has been baked in. everything is open to revision, and everything WILL be revised. bitcoin code, abolition of slavery, EVERY single socialist "victory" is on the table and will be reversed.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 17:00 asciilifeform: it has NOT been incurred.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform new symbols are indeed the most expensive luxury there is.
mircea_popescu: erlehmann that is the important point here : the bicentennial folly is neither relevant nor long for this world. it is no proper part of human history, nor will be long remembered.
asciilifeform: had better be remembered, or will repeat. as mazdakism was forgotten, and today repeats.
mircea_popescu: remembered as folly ; not as a thing to be.
asciilifeform: redditidjits worry about marking nuke tombs to be comprehensible to monkeys. how about marking liberasty.
erlehmann: asciilifeform expensive in what terms?
mircea_popescu: in terms of neuron-calorie.
asciilifeform: erlehmann: in the only terms that matter : brain cycles.
erlehmann: i tend to not waste brain cycles on codepages i do not use
erlehmann: gibberish to me
mircea_popescu: this is very naive.
erlehmann: while codepages i use are gibberish to CJK
asciilifeform: erlehmann: do you understand that IT EXISTING is a massive cost ?
mircea_popescu: do you also tend to not waste brain cycles on cohabiting women you don'\t fuck ?
mircea_popescu: or just on the occasionally missing carkeys, cellphones, etc.
asciilifeform: even if you personally never intend to implement an os, a text renderer, build printer with own hands, etc
erlehmann: mircea_popescu i tend to fuck people i can stand enough to live with, so … yes? unless i misunderstood that.
asciilifeform: it makes every single text-touching thing 9000x moar complicated and riddled with ???.
asciilifeform: than it otherwise could be. than it was in 1990.
mircea_popescu: erlehmann so one day new face shows up in your flat, and you're like, whatever, i dun care.
erlehmann: having delved into plan9 innards, i can say that some ill-thought abstractions make obvious shittery obvious, that is all.
asciilifeform: and making me read an ENTIRE MOTHERFUCKING STRING before i can say how many chars are in it, or whether a certain substring occurs at the end -- is not ill-thought ?
erlehmann: mircea_popescu i negotiate such things beforehand. wants to live with me? must live up to my standards.
mircea_popescu: erlehmann so then what is so different with the characters ?
mircea_popescu: you seem to apply different standards.
mircea_popescu: "who the fuck are you and why are your clothes still on" applies equally well to cunt and to squiggly. it is my house like it is my computer, exactly.
whaack: BingoBoingo: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/egIN5/?raw=true
erlehmann: let me say it like thit: a friend of mine once randomly started to masturbate beside me while visiting. i did not care as i was occupied otherwise, since she did not leave stains. if she had, i would have told her to clean it up.
mircea_popescu: (lulzy bit re that, weeks ago stark naked local girl with grandiose tits assuring us that "she doesn't steal". i was like... woman... WHERE WOULD YOU PUT IT.)
erlehmann: harr
mircea_popescu: erlehmann well let me know if balloon-with-face cleans up the residue when you tell it to.
asciilifeform: or how about the raging idiocy of, e.g., nonprintingspace char.
asciilifeform: 'it's invisible ! magic !'
mircea_popescu: ^H ?
asciilifeform: mno
mircea_popescu: :)
asciilifeform: the one in shiticode
asciilifeform: or the wonderful duped a, a, e, p, that lets whoever log in as 'mircea_popescu' on fleanode and it will display EXACTLY in 'modernized' terminal as the actual mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: ( and ditto in 'modern', e.g., crapple, www browsers, in urls )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684340 << bwahahahaha. "actually rebuilding mosul is mosul specific, therefore it has become necessary to destroy the world's heritage to save it"☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 17:04 erlehmann: jurov converting case is locale-specific, therefore better left undone.
asciilifeform: need i go on..
erlehmann: mircea_popescu if i was not entirely sure she would never have gotten there.
mircea_popescu: erlehmann the woman, or the letter ?
erlehmann: the woman.
asciilifeform: dun forget to insert nonprintingspaces between the chars for good measure, for potentially INFINITE bytewise-permutes mapping to SAME VISUAL STRING
mircea_popescu: and the distinction is based on ???
erlehmann: about characters, if you start using shit i do not expect, prepare to fail at the input frontier.
erlehmann: at least that is for software i write. full recognition etc. pp.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, the desire to break the visually-inspectable quality of the machine has been long in the tooth. they want their girlfriends "mystique", the libertards.
erlehmann: lots of software is broken beyond repair considering characters
mircea_popescu: erlehmann so your implementations of unicode include a filter table which consists of... ascii, and which rejects all non-ascii chars ?
mircea_popescu: hey, mine too!
asciilifeform: mno looks like he only rejects ones crapple and gnome hadn't yet signed off on
mircea_popescu: heh.
erlehmann: my “those people are almost certainly charlatans” moment with urbit was when their software barfed on a character being more than one byte, despite claiming unicode support.
mircea_popescu: are they paying you for this btw ? or do you just donate to them for free and then donate to them also the HAVING DONATED, like bob beck "has grown accustomed to expect" ?
erlehmann: mircea_popescu when i write software that considers the input language, i tend to write a grammar for the subset i am going to handle. so yes, i have written software that considers i.e. only characters valid in urlencoded base64 as input and rejects everything else.
erlehmann: almost half of the code of epigraph is a recognizer for the input
mircea_popescu: so then you do ~what we do when you're having a moment of clarity and are promiscuous when drunk.
mircea_popescu: seems about right.
erlehmann: mircea_popescu that is actually a major point from me. i tend to drink only with people who either proved they can behave appropriately or it would not bother me if they fucked me in the ass with a supersized dragon dildo while i'm too drunk to resist.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684356 << note that post-processing is always what you do to a language anyway.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 17:09 erlehmann: note that postprocessing is always wrong.
erlehmann: intersection of statements: no one is right. everyone is wrong.
erlehmann: one of the few things about urbit i like is that the system tries to not allow users to input statements not syntactically valid.
mircea_popescu: and why do you like this ?
erlehmann: it makes it immediately clear what is part of the grammar and what not
mircea_popescu: it lost me at "tries". no computer should try anything. that's for (young) girlfriends on their way to the dungeon cell.
mircea_popescu: computers should do.
erlehmann: want to write garbage? guess you can't
erlehmann: i wrote „tries“ because authors are charlatans
mircea_popescu: or perhaps because the notion is an escher.
erlehmann: i guess they „try“, as in keeping up appearances
mircea_popescu: you know, when the emperor died of arsenic poisoning upon eating the "endless life pill", it was not exactly because the alchemists were charlatans.
mircea_popescu: not that they weren't, at that.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684366 << or that stupid encoding shceme they came up with to allow the russkis to pretend like they have cyrillic domain names. ewgh.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 17:19 phf: fwiw unifont is not even the whole story. consider extensions like CTL, which allows you to have special rendering for a sequence of glyphs. a completely separate technology from ligatures and combining characters, but part of the standard never the less.
erlehmann: it's koi8-r right?
mircea_popescu: nope.
mircea_popescu: look into it sometime, it's a whole turing machine.
erlehmann: ah, you mean punycode?
mircea_popescu: yes, i mean punycode.
erlehmann: xn--GARBAGE-PLACE-HERE
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684382 commutative op.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 17:46 mod6: but ofc, computers don't care.
mod6: i felt like had been silly not even considering going 1...N as opposed to N...1
mod6: anyway, a couple days ago, i was messing around trying to go from 1 .. Word. And I thought that I got a compile error saying "Expected Standard.Integer, found "Word"" or something of the kind.
mod6: But alf's seems to compile just fine. So i dunno wtf.
mod6: fact(65536) still running btw...
erlehmann: koi8-r was the one where bitfuckery rearranged the cyrillic glyphs so that taking away a bit made it ASCII
erlehmann: Русский becomes rUSSKIJ
asciilifeform: mod6: if your box is anything like mine, it'll be 4-5 hrs.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'punycode' rubbish is used ~entirely by cn spammers.
mod6: asciilifeform: ah, ok.
mircea_popescu: nooo ?
asciilifeform: erlehmann: that's the only forgiveable way of doing orc alphabets ( ru, il, gr )
asciilifeform: with maximally soft fallback to roman
mircea_popescu: you mean ... just like everyting ELSE the socialistards came up with ?
mircea_popescu: all they do is spawn vermin ? i never noticed this !
erlehmann: asciilifeform you long for the days of codepage switching, i guess?
asciilifeform: erlehmann: dun switch if you dun wanna.
mircea_popescu: they were fine days - i never switched a page throughout.
asciilifeform: can read romanji.
erlehmann: worst unicode fail was that i wrote a book with a friend, published with o'reilly http://internetmeme.de
asciilifeform: jeszcze polska ne zginela etc.
erlehmann: and they actually failed at astral plane unicode characters
erlehmann: there are squares where cat faces should be
erlehmann: in a chapter about evolution of traditional smilies to emoji
mircea_popescu: sounds about par for o'reilly quality.
erlehmann: german o'reilly was different. worse, if you ask me.
erlehmann: but i accidentally made someone hate me i guess
erlehmann: we developed book using git and RST (because almost plaintext), with reviewers who also used git.
erlehmann: but then drafts had to be sent as ODT and came back as PDF to be annotated. in hindsight that was probably a measure to prevent too many annotations.
erlehmann: turns out a bit of ghostscript can fix that problem
mircea_popescu: i did my galley proofs by hand , on printed paper.
erlehmann: i think we submitted more changes than any other book by one or two orders of magnitude, just because we had it automated.
erlehmann: i later learned someone corrected all that stuff in the file sent to the printer by hand. their loss.
erlehmann: result: i tell people to not write a book.
erlehmann: unless a lot of money is involved
mircea_popescu: hey, me 2!
mircea_popescu: anyway, this endless lulz of socialism whereby they come up with a dumb "solution" to a non-problem which sane people ignore ("code pages") and THEN they come up with an "improved" solution to the same nonproblem and expect sane people to not piss on their face because hey, IMPROVED!
mircea_popescu: children that should have died of exonsure suspended from anal hooks in the open before the age of twelve.
erlehmann: great leap forward was self-correcting, wasn't it?
mircea_popescu: no.
mircea_popescu: fucking "spellchekers", they have 1/3 my vocabulary and no head for puns.
mircea_popescu: 96% or so false positives. such tool.
mircea_popescu: of the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-06#1679507 ilk☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-06 00:43 asciilifeform: (mostly) unrelatedly, asciilifeform bought some chinese $various , and , in the crate, discovered a phree goodie, a 'voltalert' tool, that supposedly tests for presence of mains current noncontactfully -- by looking for 50/60Hz electric field. but witness the surprise : it gives false negative on maybe 1/3 of the hot mains wires tried...
mircea_popescu: erlehmann the "improved" comment was re your http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684708☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 19:55 erlehmann: asciilifeform you long for the days of codepage switching, i guess?
erlehmann: mircea_popescu registered
erlehmann: asciilifeform have you reverse engineered the thing and analyzed the fault?
erlehmann: what makes it fail?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-06#1679518 << erlehmann☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-06 00:46 asciilifeform: possibly delicate balance, between finding it anywhere in the room ( as a poorly made amp will ) and nowhere
asciilifeform: it was ill-conceived
asciilifeform: afaik you cannot actually make a tool like this , that would work reasonably.
asciilifeform: gotta go either contact ( normal people's voltmeter ) or induction sense ring ( magnetic field )
erlehmann: asciilifeform reminds me of http://prefrontal.org/files/posters/Bennett-Salmon-2009.pdf
asciilifeform: trying to use electric field -- ends badly
erlehmann: bennett put dead salmon in fMRI machine
asciilifeform: classic
erlehmann: and showed it pictures of humans
mircea_popescu: discussions of how mri is not science plastered all over teh logs.
asciilifeform: fmri
asciilifeform: size&shape old school mri -- worx
mircea_popescu: works my foot. "this section of the brain fucked your mother"
asciilifeform: again yer speaking of the f
mircea_popescu: our cook's thermometer clearly indicates that the fault in koch's gpg is located in the upper left cpu quadrant.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i am speaking of the principle, described ^
erlehmann: chuckled
asciilifeform: classic mri is simply like a 3d xray that shows soft tissue
asciilifeform: no brain lights involved.
mircea_popescu: how classical is your classical, becuase that item is ~60s ?
asciilifeform: 60s
mircea_popescu: heh k.
asciilifeform: 50s when was still called nmr..
asciilifeform: ( ~same iron, scaled up )
mircea_popescu: trinque a fine example, too, the more i think of it the more i like it. aedificium (=building) != aedificans (... building) != aedificant (still!!! building) and so on and so forth qs.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile at blue competency camp, http://68.media.tumblr.com/4b54ddf842ea74e692172a79e3bae321/tumblr_oglbf9KvxO1sg1lgao1_500.gif
asciilifeform: !~later tell mod6 incidentally didja build with -cargs -O2 ??????
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: mod6 et al : http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/YEHNs/?raw=true << asciilifeform's current an' all-time gnat makefile
asciilifeform: ( pretty sure i posted this before. but here it is again. )
mod6 looks
mod6: nice, i do have one, but it was from a while ago.
mod6: no, didn't build with -cargs -O2, just did `gnatmake ffa ffa_fact`
mod6: it's still running. should i recompile & re-run?
asciilifeform: mod6: yes!
mod6: hehe, ok.
asciilifeform: gnat apparently has the utterly worthless ( even for auditing, it produces megatonne of liquishit ) O0 as default.
asciilifeform: also you gotta use all of my flags to have comparable result.
asciilifeform: ( i enable all - afaik - of the checks that are for some reason off by default )
asciilifeform: fwiw i left mod6's factorial thing running on 3 different boxes
asciilifeform: tomorrow will see how varies.
mod6: ok, it doesnt recognize `gnatmake -cflags -02 ffa ffa_fact`
mod6: barfs spitting out flag usage, neither of which are available.
mod6: also, makefile doesnt seem to work, i seem to recall this from before.
mod6: Makefile:33: *** missing separator. Stop.
mod6: to resolve those, i had to yank target instructions to the same line as the target var.
mod6: then add '\' following those.
mod6: now i get: make: *** No rule to make target 'gnatmake', needed by 'ffa'. Stop.
asciilifeform: for fucks sake
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes's paste thing must be mutilating endings
asciilifeform: or similar
mod6: yah, gotta be the version of my make is different than yours, plus, i'm not using adacore's gnat
asciilifeform: i have it working on both types
asciilifeform: and even on crapple.
asciilifeform: bitwise same makefile.
asciilifeform: what's line 33 anyway
asciilifeform: this is infuriating
mod6: was this:
mod6: $(GNATMAKE) -c $(PROGRAM) $(ARGS)
mod6: now is
asciilifeform: and i will say, if my makefile dun work on your box, in fact you do not have a working ada setup.
mod6: this seems to get me past the 33 error: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/FRKI7/?raw=true
mod6: ok, yeah, i guess it doesn't work.
asciilifeform: i have nfi why this was needed.
mod6: brb, chores.
asciilifeform: !~later tell mod6 http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/fact.tar.gz << complete kit for above. sha512==26198604bff50d3411e343a30b97f4babe3a6b291fca267435cecd6a5438a08862b550198a49dd5549dda00c841d95afc1443f597587710b83c7fa65effa9c73
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: mod6: if this does not build on your box, you gotta find out why, before attempting anything other adatronic experiments.
asciilifeform: this goes for phf and whoever else is tuned in and following along.
shinohai: thx asciilifeform
asciilifeform: and YES ben_vulpes your paster MUTILATES TABS
asciilifeform: FORFUCKSSAKE WHY
asciilifeform: WAIWAIWAI
asciilifeform: can't leave'em ALONE??
asciilifeform bbl: meat.
phf: asciilifeform: i don't think it's ben_vulpes's paster, it must be something in the pipeline
phf: gulag$ curl --silent $(printf '\t'|wotpaste)|xxd
phf: 00000000: 09 .
phf: where wotpaste is http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/K916E/?raw=true
phf: gulag$ curl --silent $(printf '\tFOO\t\t'|wotpaste)|xxd
phf: 00000000: 0946 4f4f 0909 .FOO..