erlehmann: so it turns out that thumbnailers are worse than antivirus, regarding parsing things better left unparsed
erlehmann: in one, i found the exact same vulnerability
erlehmann: but in gnome-exe-thumbnailer, the filename is inserted into ad-hoc vbscript that is then executed using wine. fun stuff!
trinque: erlehmann: got a blog? I'd read.
erlehmann: i should probably do a writeup of the vbscript thing, it's too funny
trinque: erlehmann: consider a qntra of it
erlehmann: the only thing that prevented me from immediately gaining execution is that the created script for some reason is UTF-16 LE – and of course my code-injection-via-filename is UTF-8.
erlehmann: in other news, the base64 module in python3 will happily eat garbage and pretend it is filet mignon.
☟︎ shinohai: Much like python3 pretends it is meat
erlehmann: only one of those inputs conforms to the expected grammar
erlehmann: also have you heard about getpid()
erlehmann: it became slower, or so fefe claimed
erlehmann: bonus: only affected program is systemd
trinque: erlehmann: the logs would benefit greatly from a proper writeup of these, so the next time someone goes "hurr durr $shitlang" the blog post can be linked
☟︎ erlehmann: because journald spends like 95% of its time trying to find out its own pid
erlehmann: real quality software that tries to call getpid(2) >70000 times in <5 seconds
erlehmann: only client so far that answers to PING with unknown
erlehmann: i don't even know deedbot's given name!
phf: erlehmann: i think it's maybe your client that's misinterpreting the result
phf: not that whatever's deedbot returning is correct (nor does a111), according to my client
phf: 20:27 <freenode> CTCP-reply PING from deedbot : 521771260.04 sec
trinque: ah, I figured this was something I didn't implement.
trinque: I admit I went as far into IRC as to make the thing stay connected, and otherwise didn't want IRC that far into my head
trinque: the IRC bot part does very little.
erlehmann: i understand completely, i wrote an IRC client myself once.
erlehmann: it is very simple to just stay connected. PONG
phf: hmm, odd because cl-irc defines a default handler for it..
phf: ctcp version for example leaks
trinque: hm yeah, we only added a handler for pong, not ping.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 00:24 erlehmann: proper OPSEC
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 00:14 erlehmann: in other news, the base64 module in python3 will happily eat garbage and pretend it is filet mignon.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-14 23:56 lobbes: This was always amusingly contrasted with the many foreigners that worked there in the summer; they'd Western Union that shit immediately to home country.
lobbes: at least that 50bux in somalia is > 0bux. Beats lotto player, but that is a good point: after wire fees it doesn't beat it by much
☟︎ lobbes: not much contrast afterall. Elliots everywhere!
BingoBoingo: Hey, Elliot avoided gambler's fallacy. Gave powerball a deadline to make his dreams come true!
a111: Logged on 2017-07-14 21:30 mod6: can anyone confirm if 14! is 144C3B2800 in hex?
mircea_popescu: and 15! = 2C5077D36B8C40000 16! = 3CEEA4C2B3E0D80000 17! = 57970CD7E2933680000 18! = 83629343D3DCD1C00000 19! = CD4A0619FB0907BC00000 an finally 20! = 32AD5A155C6748AC18B9A580000000
mircea_popescu: aaand 30! = 7B9A69E35CB2D866437E5C47F97AEF2C42CAEE5C00000000000 and 50! = 71864253B6AFFA79C2EA1BC52A6A1D446CA57E6FFC4196E88AF1B894823817F63F40C910E81FCC940000000000000000000 and im really impressed with my bignumatron by now
mircea_popescu: 85! = A0B8A2976BEA2078E2EB644384859F3B46323AF1FCD2BDBBA7707F6836A5F94F4EB20DDCED88F6F04D2F5C01AC3510E4A37AEBC4C5AB05C3CFA9AC51F8F3C1BB2A4A664EE145EE0BEDD1330ACE1400000000000000000000000000000000 and finally did one that took a second
a111: Logged on 2017-07-14 22:05 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> of course for maximal artsy i'd make your gliders asymmetrical. give it some nutty spin. << Maple seeds!
BingoBoingo: Yeah, prolly ought to assemble a variety for the artisic alien weapon expo
a111: Logged on 2017-07-14 22:18 BingoBoingo: of grasses.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-14 22:18 andreicon: /query mircea_popescu
a111: Logged on 2017-07-14 22:46 asciilifeform wonders if 'unboxing vid' for nuke has yet been filmed. if not, genre has room for growth!111
a111: Logged on 2017-07-14 23:56 lobbes: This was always amusingly contrasted with the many foreigners that worked there in the summer; they'd Western Union that shit immediately to home country.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 00:18 trinque: erlehmann: the logs would benefit greatly from a proper writeup of these, so the next time someone goes "hurr durr $shitlang" the blog post can be linked
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 02:36 lobbes: at least that 50bux in somalia is > 0bux. Beats lotto player, but that is a good point: after wire fees it doesn't beat it by much
mircea_popescu: seems wiring money to the same idiots that made it necessary for you to abandon country and fambly with their rampant idiocy might be a worse move than just pouring it into cement.
mircea_popescu: unless, of course, he's wiring it to some radical group. though i vaguely don't expect western union would "allow" that.
erlehmann: don't worry, i'll do the “if you use chrome, wine and gnome, visiting random websites might yield vbscript” writeup sometime soon. it's too hilarious.
erlehmann: i might want to figure out the UTF-16 LE issue before that. of course, i can do my injection in UTF-16 LE, but i want to know where it comes from.
mircea_popescu: same place the fixed font thing came from we were lulzing at a few days ago
mircea_popescu: in other lulz : i took girl to strip joint crawl today. highlight of the night, this plastered drunk waitress / whore that wouldn't take 3k for a 2k tab. literally, she gave it back to me, evidently i made a mistake.
erlehmann: seems both like jobs where being sober helps
mircea_popescu: it's incomprehensible they even manage to have strip clubs here AT ALL. the girls are so utterly innocent of anything to do with either money or fucking that they might as well be the local highschool volley team.
mircea_popescu: in fact, ~every one i've seen played soccer on the monitors. except for the one that had VERY BAD porn. i mean terribly bad.
erlehmann: i use GNU unifont wherever i can. fits in head.
☟︎ erlehmann: (conceptually, at least. non-scalable 8x16 / 16x16 glyphs all the way down.)
a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 21:29 mircea_popescu: "i'll believe it when i see it with big font in rounded corners."
mircea_popescu: erlehmann anyway, it was something about how random windoze userland used arbitrary font for form making or i don't recall, some management function anyway.
erlehmann: if i recall correctly, windows has font handling at an entirely wrong abstraction level (think TTF kernel exploit)
erlehmann: > One generic approach is to limit the privileges of font processing code in their respective environments, such as enforcing sandboxing of the FreeType library, or moving the font engine out of the kernel in Windows (which Microsoft has done starting with Windows 10). However, that is mostly beyond our reach.
mircea_popescu: the problem with the systemd approach to system design is that everything ends up wanting to be its own master-exceptional-class.
mircea_popescu: you see it in the dumbass faux bitcoins the usg "developers" keep producing too.
mircea_popescu: that's kinda the point no systemd detractor ever made : that systemd is fundamentally and by itself an unstable arrangement, and it'll end up stuck systemding itself to death, very much like how the dnc keeps revolutionizing itself into irrelevancy.
erlehmann: it surely has a very low bus factor.
BingoBoingo: Very high stepping in front of a bus factor though
erlehmann: i remember a post from “the old new thing” about “why can't we have a method to have our window on top of all others?”
mircea_popescu: erlehmann and you know what will happen -- two will call it at the same time. and you know what they'll do -- a Top.Window.Manager to handle the conflict. and so on.
erlehmann: oh, but then i looked for it and there exist several
erlehmann: mircea_popescu in the past i wondered how people who ask that question never consider someone else might think themselves such an exceptional snowflake.
mircea_popescu: guy asks hotel desk to call him a cab, which they do. he gets in and not long after discovers that the madcap driver is actually not accidentally blowing a red light, but systematically blowing each and every one of them.
mircea_popescu: so he asks, hey, aren't you supposed to stop on red ? and the driver replies that he's a cool guy, an' cool guys don't have to stop for shit.
mircea_popescu: the guy is sorta pondering this away in his head, when suddenly they run into a green light and the driver breaks like all gedup.
mircea_popescu: "yeah, but what if there's a cool guy coming the other way ?"
erlehmann: i must admit that cheered me up a bit, even though i knew how it would turn out halfway through :)
erlehmann: i must so the cool guy has not reached maximum snowflake
mircea_popescu: no, the thing is the cool guy is dealing with a physical system. it has backblow, if you're too special you're not gonna be around anymore.
erlehmann: so the cool guy must not have reached maximum snowflake level (where no one else could even think themselves snowflake)
mircea_popescu: reality is self-healing, tjhat's why the pantsuits live on pizza and reddits.
mircea_popescu: or i'm sorry, "nutritionally balanced diets" and "science".
erlehmann: problem is timespan. systemd already could not handle an empty string and executed tasks for users named “0day” as root because names starting with numbers are hard, mmmkay?! it might take a long time before it collapses.
BingoBoingo: Who needs to block egress when entire building shell can be clad in flammable polyurethane foam
mircea_popescu: erlehmann php is not a system in absolutely any sense. it is a text processor, why would it not exist.
erlehmann: also, any individual car using systemd and literally crashing because of it is unlikely to contain lennart.
BingoBoingo: It's that thing everyone assumes Phuctor uses so Phuctor gets to collect all the PHP run time exploits thrown into not a PHP run time
mircea_popescu: there is a substantial difference between someone trying to build a house with a badly formulated pi, who ends up building a spiral instead of a tower and never thereby finishing ; and someone who in his house builds a clay pot with his own hands and no potter's wheel. so what if the pot will leak ? it can hold a potted plant or whatever, hang on a wall, participate in a domestic argument...
BingoBoingo: In some of those applications, leak is a plus!
BingoBoingo: excess plant water drains through leak, nail to wall goes through other leak
BingoBoingo: Nah, it's the alt-soros reality distortion field leaking onto her face. Also her face was leaking blood because likely cialis can only do so much for Morning Joe.
BingoBoingo: The reality leaking in is that the most important man in her life is gone and the new most important man, lacks eldritch powers she is accustomed to. Whole new set of daddy issues in her fifth decade.
mircea_popescu: there's always going to be more zsa zsa gabors around than free drinks available.
BingoBoingo just wonders who had honor of destroying the phylactery
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2081.33, vol: 16109.31127362 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2076.104, vol: 7524.01997 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2080.0, vol: 32969.27098191 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2158.946676, vol: 13045.88760000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2093.71, vol: 9320.16916233 | Volume-weighted last average: 2094.56046991
mod6: mircea_popescu: thanks for the hex factorials.
mod6: !W (format nil "~x" (factorial 15))
mod6: we're getting some pretty different answers actually. for 15!, i'm getting (in hex):
mod6: 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000013077775800
mod6: which is: 1307674368000 (dec)
deedbot: candi_lustt voiced for 30 minutes.
mod6: lol, funny you say, just did 1024.
mod6: oh dang, wrapped nasty. hang on, will break @ 80
mod6: lol, had to use 2**64 words with FZ(196)
mod6: 1154ms for that one
mod6: found a website that produces what seems to be the same 2193 digit value
mod6: it seems to be be pretty quick, ya
deedbot: candi_lustt voiced for 30 minutes.
candi_lustt: mircea_popescu: 2022F598887B1B677793EEA7338140B96EDD924FCAB3A183421F3DCFE257E91FDB9FBDA6FDC765C78087E0AFB0469EE9DC04E88B57DBC8A8850C431640A70A5553F274CF95CF31EF50FF773BB46B4F14BADBEF976885D017EDB30CA9D17100464466D8E2C424C4EB35A8AD96698AB9DA18C5941A808585B16D700EA60FE4742B55D151D2FA72FB5314BF93374F6BA357B7E7B81928B2FCEF3B564380DC3BD2D0D3580A28D5AEAD0D707CDD521CB09F953E45849E4EA04445DB770F4473BFD62494BA215E1370DF02ADB30F0AEC0DC9ADCCC96284CF6D8FFED1DD283
candi_lustt: mircea_popescu: 1D1CB6CEFC854C98FC338B0A2757950AE2F876268442F789102C1C43044777BC974C055AB02139BCBD8ABA7370498742FF2D49241C3F4F2A110A0BC600280FC288996B7784835D603AEC3623C06332DDBABB7BEA4A2F777C77E7DFA4FD942821E0C0A2D28DA1D614C66E668349589EDFB477DB532EF98604FECB1A5163FD32284726321766A3BF49C4DDC16698372425A96E1AC8956FD6842D2E7991762A386515FE01FF8591FC10EA7274026D895BDF94F43042245A40A6A35003B18CA765D0B6EDE66E6BA2B0C63AF98BBF115C8533616ED83823A204963EE07F1
mod6: lol, im doing 65536 too
mod6: now, 2048 was ~5000ms
mod6: but 65536, still running
deedbot: candi_lustt voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: !W (DEFUN FACTORIAL (N &OPTIONAL (ACC 1)) (IF (<= N 1) ACC (FACTORIAL (- N 1) (* ACC N))))
mod6: this 65536 one is gonna run for a while i think...
☟︎ mircea_popescu: amusing life slyce right here : user will read error message after the 4th pass and not before ; and will mess up the bot after 4 tries thence.
mod6: it could be perhaps that FZ(16384) isn't long enough ... might need like 32k
☟︎ mircea_popescu: btw, does asciilifeform know about the right honorable the lord brougham and vaux pc qc frs ?
☟︎ mod6: ah, Ada was Lord Byron's daughter
deedbot: candi_lustt voiced for 30 minutes.
mod6: alright, i restarted mine.
mod6: i bumped it up to 32768
mircea_popescu: so almost an hour, and then failed to return. alrighty.
mod6: yeah mine is still going.
mod6: I liked your comments about byron. That was the first i've read of him.
mod6: ya. heard many times, just never gave it a turn.
mod6: there was some warts in the prose.
mod6: as you denoted. it kept me reading, which, counts for something.
mod6: i agree about how Laura was written, pretty plain and dull.
mod6: i must have missed somethin
mod6: this seems to be the analogue of the modern-day soccer-mom 3/4 boob selfie. in the text, she criticizes her friends for being "suburban" and "dowdyish"; but to me, she seems like one of the same.
mod6: pretty ave. i'd hit it.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile faux news outlets imagine they have over a dozen readers.
mod6: heheh, "such readership"
mod6: alright, i better catch some zzzs. i'll check in on the factorial here when I wake up.
sina: I just upgraded to Fedora 26 :)
sina: haha that sounds a lot more fun
sina: anyway I just wanted to test and make sure all of my things were working post upgrade
sina: not gonna hang around, got a headache
sina: have a nice evenin all
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 07:20 mod6: it could be perhaps that FZ(16384) isn't long enough ... might need like 32k
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 07:26 mircea_popescu: btw, does asciilifeform know about the right honorable the lord brougham and vaux pc qc frs ?
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 07:18 mod6: this 65536 one is gonna run for a while i think...
gribble: Error: "!up" is not a valid command.
deedbot: gribble voiced for 30 minutes.
mod6: ah no. lol, it is still going.
mod6: i'd rather have something sane to read at the end of the journey.
mod6: asciilifeform: werd.
mod6: 1.326 + log(65536)/2*log(2) + (log(65536)/log(2) - 1.443)*65536 << during this exercise, i started, very quickly to see this expansion pattern. was thinking there must be some square law to predict the probable size of the outcome.
mod6: does that have a name? ^
mod6: sure, but perhaps, getting one close is good enough in this case.
mod6: asciilifeform: entrenching tool, aha.
mod6: ok ima kill this off then throw in some 1mb FZ
mod6: <+asciilifeform> which, btw, imho is intrinsically unsuitable for a fits-in-head rsatron, it is extremely gnarly and uses float approximations that get magically unfudged back to int, etc << ugh. right.
mod6: you want me to post my code before I run this again?
jhvh1: asciilifeform: 0.240 * 65536 = 15728.64
mod6: ooh. for some reason, i didn't think that it could?
mod6: i dunno, just the strict types thing.
mod6: ah, ok. duh. lemme see here...
mod6: ah, that was used for some debugging
mod6: anyway, got some chores to do, will have to come back to this later.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2049.99, vol: 21747.98828631 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2040.0, vol: 9897.42431 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2049.9, vol: 43773.46200243 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2108.925036, vol: 16981.30690000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2041.956, vol: 12025.5025457 | Volume-weighted last average: 2057.66403319
trinque: asciilifeform, I put my life savings into bitcoin at $3k, please help
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 05:13 erlehmann: i use GNU unifont wherever i can. fits in head.
erlehmann: asciilifeform the sole purpose of unicode is to replace all other glyph standards. from that follows all else, i.e. incorporation of wingdings, emoji, etc.
erlehmann: switching encodings needs out of band signaling which IMO is worse
erlehmann: what actually happened is that people who wanted to use hieroglyphs passed around codes such as A13 – a standard reference exists (gardiner's sign list) that was incorporated into unicode
erlehmann: okay, but most of it. a special interest group (egyptologican geeks) used a glyph standard. unicode swallowed that standard. this is how it usually goes.
☟︎ erlehmann: also, for everyday communication i find E1, E2, E3, E4 etc. much better than trying to pass around bitmaps
erlehmann: can it be that your complaint is more with the egyptian glyphs than with unicode itself?
☟︎ erlehmann: some writing systems contain non-abstract symbols. all the same to me, as long as everything fits in 16×16 bits.
erlehmann: asciilifeform i strongly suspect you do not distinguish between complexity and sheer numbers. i saw bloat always as referring to needless complexity, size of something only as evidence, not as bloat itself.
erlehmann: one point is that incorporating something in unicode does not increase processing complexity by any means. i actually installed a new version of unifont on an old phone and instantly it could display all the new characters.
erlehmann: so if code does not care if there exist 250 or 2500 or 250000 characters, why should i?
erlehmann: that turns out to be a problem with the abysmally bad TTF file format.
erlehmann: yes, but this cost has already been incurred. unicode actually tried to prevent too many new characters in the past, leading to misfeature han unification.
erlehmann: chinese, japanese, korean now share unihan, with all the processing complexity and technical debt incurred from that
erlehmann: asciilifeform ok enjoy your latin1 while it lasts.
erlehmann: version 1 of unicode was designed to keep under 16 bits
erlehmann: in those days, only ~21k characters were reserved for CJK
erlehmann: which obviously is not enough (i read something about ~100k characters being enough)
jurov: "incorporating something in unicode does not increase processing complexity" orly? maybe unless you want to do anything interesting with the text, like... count the characters. or case convert. or detect whitespace. or compare two strings. or...
a111: Logged on 2017-03-23 18:21 mircea_popescu: this notion that i will support the wintel FOR FREE is the lolz of all time.
erlehmann: jurov converting case is locale-specific, therefore better left undone.
☟︎ jurov: dude. all of above is locale specific
erlehmann: also, comparing two strings should be done bytewise, always. everything else is madness.
erlehmann: character count and whitespace is locale specific? AFAIK whitespace is an ENUM
erlehmann: one with only 25 members, seems sensible
jurov: erlehmann my language has such a delightful case of "ch" character. which is a "digraph" and to be counted as one char.
jurov: and collated in between h and k
jurov: unicode has zillions if these cases
erlehmann: well, if ch is one character, i rather have it as one codepoint.
erlehmann: instead of having to postprocess ASCII
jurov: your client will not supply it as one
jurov: they will just expect it to work
jurov: there are plenty of articles "what programmers mush know about unicode" with such gotchaz. just educate yourself.
erlehmann: ch does not exist as unicode ligature, but as i understand distinguishing characters is one of the problems unicode is at least intended to solve. as soon as everyone uses Æ for “ AE” the postprocessing is no longer needed.
erlehmann: note that postprocessing is always wrong.
☟︎ erlehmann: in standard german, ß / ẞ / ss / SS are not ambiguous, but in german variants that do not use ß / ẞ, the ss / SS could be a digraph depending on context.
erlehmann: e.g. those who do not use ß / ẞ write “Der grosse Duden” instead of “Der große Duden”
erlehmann: asciilifeform unicode has you covered
erlehmann: i suggest put the following in your .XCompose if you use X11
erlehmann: <Multi_key> <N> <S> <D> <A> <P> : "卐" U5350 # CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-5350
erlehmann: it nicely complements what they already have out of the box
phf: fwiw unifont is not even the whole story. consider extensions like CTL, which allows you to have special rendering for a sequence of glyphs. a completely separate technology from ligatures and combining characters, but part of the standard never the less.
☟︎ erlehmann: phf unifont actually leaves out shitstains like arbitrarily combining glyphs to make national flags.
erlehmann: i just see „DE“ surrounded by a special frame instead of a german flag
phf: well, without such a "shitstains" you can't for example render arabic or iranian in any meaningful way
phf: combining glyphs to make national flags is yes yet another extension
erlehmann: and one introduced because unicode consortium was sick of other misbehaving standards bodies (ISO country codes), ha-ha!
mod6: <+asciilifeform> also you forgot, in the original, to divide the length of ffa by 64 (bits), yours will blow up instead of run, gcc by default does not give infinite stack << ah thanks for making the changes asciilifeform. bak now. will try this out...
mod6: one thing, that i never really thought about is going the other direction; 1 * 2 * 3 ...
erlehmann: asciilifeform nichts hält so lange, wie ein provisorium!
mod6: when I do the factorials in my head, i seem to start with the bigger end for some reason.
mod6: but ofc, computers don't care.
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 12:45 asciilifeform: while we're on subj, ffa is more or less guaranteed to lose to just about any heathen bignumtron in factorial speed, and it should not be hard to see why.
mircea_popescu: no argument. but i am a practical man and i like plugging things in.
mircea_popescu: again, no argument. T needs to be measured, factorial is a fine case to measure it in, we don't resort to the lab when we wish to prove theory wrong but in all cases and at all times because we like the lab.
mircea_popescu: does not relieve anything, it's just something you do.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 14:24 asciilifeform: !~later tell mod6 1.326 + log2(N)/2 + (log2(N) - 1.443)*N gives bitlength of N! to 1% or so.
mod6: ok factorial of 65536 with's alf's changes is running.
mircea_popescu: and yes, brougham is a monument of socialist retardation. devout abolitionist (which, incidentally, is coming together in my mind as the spot where western civilisation actually went off-course, early 1800s), argued with young re wave form of light, argued with some statistician re solar spots impact on wheat prices, tellingly thought everyone else unscientific and by comparison to his bright mind very stupid indeed and perp
mircea_popescu: he could as well be their fucking patron saint, the party of vaux.
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 15:09 asciilifeform: meanwhile!, in sunny monkeylandia,
https://archive.is/a3GZE >> 'Visa... offering up to $10,000 each to 50 U.S.-based small business owners that are committed to going cashless... "We are declaring war on cash," said Andy Gerlt, a spokesman for Visa.'
mircea_popescu: notice how this works : visa is sending "up to $10k in bitcoin" to its own bitcoin addresses to claim "people" have "invested" in whatever nutty bullshit faux coin they have going ; visa is sending "up to 10k" faux news on dead paper to its own offices to claim someone actually gives a shit what the new york times says on any topic ; visa is then giving 10k in cash to 50 of its own merchants to pretend like you and i should d
mircea_popescu: visa could totally buy russia, if russia were dumb enough.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 15:29 asciilifeform: sec. for mod6's thing, approx.
mircea_popescu: there is NO REASON to continue the nonsense. learn a language.
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684289 LEARNING A LANGUAGE. accepting that chinese is not a language ; accepting in order to accept that the simple annd obvious fact thjat your mother and father, if you're chinese, were FOR THAT REASON idiots and imbeciles ; and for the reason also that their parenjts in their turn -- idiots and imbeciles.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 16:44 erlehmann: what do you suggest as an alternative?
mircea_popescu: coming to that minimal point of self-awareness any bimbo with half a peanut in her skull manages in fact to come to, where she realises it's not the fucking squiglies painted on her nails that make her unique.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but we DO know mine still permits the use of language.
BingoBoingo: <erlehmann> asciilifeform ok enjoy your latin1 while it lasts. << 卍 We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children 卍
mircea_popescu: i'm not proposing a sorting here. i am just proposing they notice the parts of their skull made of cow dung.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 16:57 asciilifeform: if i start writing english as strings of 16-bit indices into the oxford dictionary, people will laugh.
mircea_popescu: look at bureaucrat wank, it's directly translatable to word table.
mircea_popescu: "oh but all teh great literature shall be lost" hurr durr. egyptian had just as great literature. JUST as great. its loss was thought important for centuries, before drunk soldiers broke the code and it was discovered -- egyptian literature is barely fit to grace toilet paper.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 16:50 erlehmann: okay, but most of it. a special interest group (egyptologican geeks) used a glyph standard. unicode swallowed that standard. this is how it usually goes.
erlehmann: i think it is not about the literature. i think it is to cater to the special interest groups.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 16:51 erlehmann: can it be that your complaint is more with the egyptian glyphs than with unicode itself?
erlehmann: unicode consortium sees group using not-unicode, swallows.
erlehmann: to me that is not tolerance, but annexation
mircea_popescu: there shall be no equality, and there shall be no tolerance. black man either dresses like white man or picks cotton.
BingoBoingo: <erlehmann> i think it is not about the literature. i think it is to cater to the special interest groups. << Maybe these groups need specialler interests?
mircea_popescu: erlehmann but that's prtecisely what tolerance is. an ill designed attempt to swallow.
erlehmann: mircea_popescu empire does not pretend equality, but tolerance it has. EU has 23 official languages AFAIK.
erlehmann: just pay your taxes and you'll be spared from war or worse!
mircea_popescu: and is going to shit. BECAUSE of it. not simply "in the time of it", but BECAUSE of it.
mircea_popescu: and i don't mean, because eu bureaucrats tolerate greek, eu is going to shit. i mean -- because eu has absolutely no project (which is the direct equivalent) everyone is only there while the food flows. and furthermore, because the men tolerate the misbehaviours of the women, the countries are dropping off thje map, and so on.
mircea_popescu: erlehmann security, yeah, that old "come be eaten by ants for you're too scared of hunting bear"
erlehmann: i thought singular project is interconnection. make war less profitable than peace.
erlehmann: consider that idiots like hitler, napoleon etc. pp. found war more profitable than peace
mircea_popescu: "make domestic arguments less profitable than watching tv". this isn't washing the dishes.
mircea_popescu: erlehmann war IS more profitable than peace. whether you find this or not.
erlehmann: mircea_popescu it's only war in europe that is made less profitable. lots of wars to shop around for otherwhere.
mircea_popescu: war makes the only thing peace never can, that is -- empty space. the value of empty space varies, from negative after a war to infinite during socialism.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: erlehmann and yet, funnily, everyone comes to make war in europe. and yet, funnilky enough, the byzantine empire still prays to their legions in heaven, notwithstanding the reality daily debunk
erlehmann: asciilifeform can you actually see ™ and ® btw?
erlehmann: asciilifeform what you think of unifont hex file format?
mircea_popescu: erlehmann let me tell you a story. after the fall of the romanian socialist republic, people were left with no practically useful skills and no capital. a mad rush to accumulate both ensued, which was subsidiarily great because it put young people above old people and as a result produced the only sort of society worthj living in -- with anxiety way way underregulated. now then -- what did the old people do, as their principa
erlehmann: i created unifont glyphs using emacs and sed
mircea_popescu: do guess, you i hear are from the right germany to guess./
erlehmann: mircea_popescu would you explain regulation of anxiety?
erlehmann: maybe an idiom i do not understand
mircea_popescu: yes. if you permit the woman to act out her "worry" about "What may happen" you will sink. if you beat her black and blue every time she worries -- about anything, you'll suddenly get great parties.
mircea_popescu: you won't get a bike helmet industry, which is a tolerable loss.
erlehmann: sounds like what a qualified cognitive-behavioural therapist would say indeed!
mircea_popescu: (helmets -- great. the process that normally produces them -- poison)
erlehmann: process that produces them → people die from head injuries?
mircea_popescu: no. people worring about people drying from head injuries.
mircea_popescu: note helmet works -- before the fact. it's not fucking antibiotics.
mircea_popescu: process that produces antibiotics -> people needing to hold on to a tree while peeing.
erlehmann: large scale deployments are always driven by statistics. i once read that many stats have no bike helmet laws because lawmakers are convinced this would reduce biking to the point where more cardiovascular diseases outrun benefits of less head injuries.
mircea_popescu: this is not so, but let us not diverge any more. what did the old people do, as their principal neo-society endeavour ?
erlehmann: not in the mood for guessing history i'm not familiar with
mircea_popescu: you probably are familiar with, but anyway : they ~~~ENCLOSED THEIR BALCONIES~~~.
mircea_popescu: this is to say, standard soviet matchbox dwelling, like berlin is still full of, came from the maker with a "balcony", which was open to the outside. they -- paid, scions of the decrepit metalworking industry, to solder/weld/glue to the balustrades ugly scrap metal pikes and pipes, and in between them put glass.
mircea_popescu: just as soon as they managed to get a little capital, which is to say money not needed day to day, they stuck it in this deeply improductive activity. not went to istanbul to buy cheap colorful crap to resell, not anything else.
mircea_popescu: why ? because even in their sclerotic stupid fucking heads that should by rights have been taken off en masse at the very onset, the value of SPACE exceeded all other values.
mircea_popescu: the ~only thing all survivors of socialism agreed on, even the ones too dumb to live.
mircea_popescu: even if it was a little meaningless bit of useless space misplaced and so on.
mircea_popescu: now tell me they did not do this in berlin and i shall not believe you.
mircea_popescu: instead tell me you were there while it happened and didn't notice, and i shall believe it, but also point to it for your benefit.
mircea_popescu: to use a chinese idiomatic which, oddly, i can actually introduce without importing shitsquiggles.tiff first.
mircea_popescu: perhaps because man with superior encoding is superior man. or shall we say MMMMMMMMMMx instead.
trinque: I was relating the uniturd thread to $girl in the pool just now, and she challenged erlehmann to start writing software in emojis. and if not, why communicate with it.
trinque: erlehmann: been treated amply in logs you haven't read
erlehmann: i noticed once logs of another channel were gone
trinque: asciilifeform: if it had found its way into ansi, the shitgnomes would've demanded moar glyphs, and ended up in exactly the same place
trinque: ahaha fucked into nap already
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform wtf yet lol. there is no such time there weren't. AN END TO SLAVERY!
trinque: ^ question marks in my term. zealotry!
BingoBoingo: <erlehmann> large scale deployments are always driven by statistics. i once read that many stats have no bike helmet laws because lawmakers are convinced this would reduce biking to the point where more cardiovascular diseases outrun benefits of less head injuries. << For all the idiocies Illinois does participate in, it refrains from helmet laws. This means the occasional perosn riding a chromed up cruisers with a DOT non-compliant Pick
BingoBoingo: elhaube and buncha kids riding in organ donation mode
erlehmann: trinque if ${girl?} wanted to make a joke, she should know: APL is not the worst offender, merely the first. rules for identifiers in c# correspond to unicode standard annex 15.
trinque: she had a joek of the pointed variety.
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684311 << the amusing part here is that ~possibly~, as an entirely speculative, rather literary than linguistic notion, the chinese started out early, and as such started out small : they had but 8 or so letters, which they combined in words (with silent winds, as was the fashion 5000 years pre-magdalene). as the complexity driven by a large empire ever piled, these short and few letters sta
☝︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 16:57 asciilifeform: if i start writing english as strings of 16-bit indices into the oxford dictionary, people will laugh.
mircea_popescu: rted to carry multiple meanings. FILIP B is still how you say philip the 2nd in greek to this day, because B is also 2. it means a number of things, and if you didn't know "set" is the english word with the largest number of meanings.
mircea_popescu: now -- birthday paradox, you only get 8 boxes you end up with a LOT of meanings.
mircea_popescu: then they made the stupid move of coming up with separate notiations for the 16 meanings of the letter tsa.
mircea_popescu: thereby coming up with the confucianist horror we all know and loathe today.
erlehmann: > estimates imply that every death of helmetless imbecile prevents or delays as many as 0.33 deaths among imbeciles on transplant waiting list
trinque: I'm still an idiot flash-card-level student of latin, but worth discussing that as the standard for "proper alphabetical lang". even things like "afui" make me feel like a bumbling idiot when in english I have to say "I was away". only way with pictographs to combine meanings and generate new would seem to be "well yeah, go with me on this one, but this one is sorta related-looking to these other two"
trinque dun see how it could be anything but the squashiest of thinking tools
BingoBoingo: erlehmann: Anyways the point is, even pickeljaube still can't make Illinois as cool as Missouri where people wear DOT helmets, but are allowed to attach scabbard and ride with carbine on steel horse
trinque: or god, "having been built" -> "aedificatus" iirc
trinque: you'd have more symbols than atoms in universe by long
trinque: or more likely, never turn combinations into their *own* singular concepts, upon which to build other relationships in mind
trinque: you know, ABCDEFG has this relationship with JKERQ
trinque: standardizing writing *below* concepts appears the only possible sanity
mod6: BingoBoingo: that is pretty cool
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 18:45 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684311 << the amusing part here is that ~possibly~, as an entirely speculative, rather literary than linguistic notion, the chinese started out early, and as such started out small : they had but 8 or so letters, which they combined in words (with silent winds, as was the fashion 5000 years pre-magdalene). as the complexity driven by a large empire ever piled, these short and few letters sta
a111: Logged on 2017-07-14 20:29 phf: asciilifeform: i used to try and clarify the inflection, but then realized that it's mostly meaningless for the anglophones. so however much it grates,
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform most languages were notated after long time spoken though.
mircea_popescu: now, if the jews and other golden crescents notated six centuries later whereas the chinese notated a few centuries before but a language already 2500 years old...
trinque: mircea_popescu: said differently without writing differently?
trinque: ah, well sorta still works. meant that in latin the user can generate concepts on the fly, and have them known as singular items upon which to anchor others
trinque: and I don't see how this'd not be way more cumbersome with the ideographs
mircea_popescu: anyway. your chief point is correct, in that flexion is pure lisp for language, that i even to this day can say inexistent words whose meanings are directly evident to romanian speakers is a large matter. english even has rudiments of proper flexion, i can say "the built" and it connotes, but not to all speakers.
mircea_popescu: this is why i like that romanian cartoon series, "robotzi". they do it extensively, to breaking point. single example : at some point one says to the other "daca stiam c-ai sa ajungi un ghetzalit nespalat". this is evidently in standard romanian "if i knew you'll end up and unwashed ???". the ??? is iffy, because ghetzalit is not a word in romanian. in fact, it's a construction : ghetz is how you say sperm in hungarian, and -
mircea_popescu: it is the correct mark of the perfective participle in this circumstance. so "cumfaced" i guess.
mircea_popescu: this is done universally and to everything, german, russian, turkish. zdreantsa!
☟︎ mircea_popescu: "romanian thinks all other languages are badly written romanian", and this because it actually continues latin.
mircea_popescu: nor, and here's the important point, and the utf bane, nor could!
mircea_popescu: you can not, still to this day, in spite of all sort of "published research", include a statement of its own coherence in a coherent system sufficiently complex (so as to include a statement of certain mathematical truths...)
mircea_popescu: the problem with bureaucrats is that it universally is not possible to provide them with an above-secondary education.
mircea_popescu: consequently they form a highschooler's toolbox and then go build themselves monumental graves.
mircea_popescu: which brings a different matter home : traduttore tradditore etcetera, but only if trying to cross the human-monkey linguistic divide.
mircea_popescu: (amusingly, 1800s public person is on teh record saying you can readily understand so-and-so's broken romanian : first, transl;ate it back to german.)
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> the problem with bureaucrats is that it universally is not possible to provide them with an above-secondary education. << AHA, they pursue baccalaureate education in studying their High School experiences
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 16:58 asciilifeform: the mere possibility of 'new characters' is antisanity.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 02:19 mircea_popescu: there's no peer discovery as a gossipd function ; at all times it knows already all the peers it will ever know. in lawyer speak this is called "never ask a question you don't know the answer to."
mircea_popescu: "guessing from context" does specifically and fundamentally not work.
mircea_popescu: aka "i am a human perfect in every way and equal to all others, what could there be that's not directly obvious to me as well as anyone"
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 17:00 asciilifeform: it has NOT been incurred.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform new symbols are indeed the most expensive luxury there is.
mircea_popescu: erlehmann that is the important point here : the bicentennial folly is neither relevant nor long for this world. it is no proper part of human history, nor will be long remembered.
erlehmann: asciilifeform expensive in what terms?
erlehmann: i tend to not waste brain cycles on codepages i do not use
erlehmann: while codepages i use are gibberish to CJK
mircea_popescu: do you also tend to not waste brain cycles on cohabiting women you don'\t fuck ?
mircea_popescu: or just on the occasionally missing carkeys, cellphones, etc.
erlehmann: mircea_popescu i tend to fuck people i can stand enough to live with, so … yes? unless i misunderstood that.
mircea_popescu: erlehmann so one day new face shows up in your flat, and you're like, whatever, i dun care.
erlehmann: having delved into plan9 innards, i can say that some ill-thought abstractions make obvious shittery obvious, that is all.
erlehmann: mircea_popescu i negotiate such things beforehand. wants to live with me? must live up to my standards.
mircea_popescu: erlehmann so then what is so different with the characters ?
mircea_popescu: "who the fuck are you and why are your clothes still on" applies equally well to cunt and to squiggly. it is my house like it is my computer, exactly.
erlehmann: let me say it like thit: a friend of mine once randomly started to masturbate beside me while visiting. i did not care as i was occupied otherwise, since she did not leave stains. if she had, i would have told her to clean it up.
mircea_popescu: (lulzy bit re that, weeks ago stark naked local girl with grandiose tits assuring us that "she doesn't steal". i was like... woman... WHERE WOULD YOU PUT IT.)
mircea_popescu: erlehmann well let me know if balloon-with-face cleans up the residue when you tell it to.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 17:04 erlehmann: jurov converting case is locale-specific, therefore better left undone.
erlehmann: mircea_popescu if i was not entirely sure she would never have gotten there.
erlehmann: about characters, if you start using shit i do not expect, prepare to fail at the input frontier.
erlehmann: at least that is for software i write. full recognition etc. pp.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, the desire to break the visually-inspectable quality of the machine has been long in the tooth. they want their girlfriends "mystique", the libertards.
erlehmann: lots of software is broken beyond repair considering characters
mircea_popescu: erlehmann so your implementations of unicode include a filter table which consists of... ascii, and which rejects all non-ascii chars ?
erlehmann: my “those people are almost certainly charlatans” moment with urbit was when their software barfed on a character being more than one byte, despite claiming unicode support.
mircea_popescu: are they paying you for this btw ? or do you just donate to them for free and then donate to them also the HAVING DONATED, like bob beck "has grown accustomed to expect" ?
erlehmann: mircea_popescu when i write software that considers the input language, i tend to write a grammar for the subset i am going to handle. so yes, i have written software that considers i.e. only characters valid in urlencoded base64 as input and rejects everything else.
erlehmann: almost half of the code of epigraph is a recognizer for the input
mircea_popescu: so then you do ~what we do when you're having a moment of clarity and are promiscuous when drunk.
erlehmann: mircea_popescu that is actually a major point from me. i tend to drink only with people who either proved they can behave appropriately or it would not bother me if they fucked me in the ass with a supersized dragon dildo while i'm too drunk to resist.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 17:09 erlehmann: note that postprocessing is always wrong.
erlehmann: intersection of statements: no one is right. everyone is wrong.
erlehmann: one of the few things about urbit i like is that the system tries to not allow users to input statements not syntactically valid.
erlehmann: it makes it immediately clear what is part of the grammar and what not
mircea_popescu: it lost me at "tries". no computer should try anything. that's for (young) girlfriends on their way to the dungeon cell.
erlehmann: want to write garbage? guess you can't
erlehmann: i wrote „tries“ because authors are charlatans
erlehmann: i guess they „try“, as in keeping up appearances
mircea_popescu: you know, when the emperor died of arsenic poisoning upon eating the "endless life pill", it was not exactly because the alchemists were charlatans.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 17:19 phf: fwiw unifont is not even the whole story. consider extensions like CTL, which allows you to have special rendering for a sequence of glyphs. a completely separate technology from ligatures and combining characters, but part of the standard never the less.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 17:46 mod6: but ofc, computers don't care.
mod6: i felt like had been silly not even considering going 1...N as opposed to N...1
mod6: anyway, a couple days ago, i was messing around trying to go from 1 .. Word. And I thought that I got a compile error saying "Expected Standard.Integer, found "Word"" or something of the kind.
mod6: But alf's seems to compile just fine. So i dunno wtf.
mod6: fact(65536) still running btw...
erlehmann: koi8-r was the one where bitfuckery rearranged the cyrillic glyphs so that taking away a bit made it ASCII
mod6: asciilifeform: ah, ok.
mircea_popescu: you mean ... just like everyting ELSE the socialistards came up with ?
erlehmann: asciilifeform you long for the days of codepage switching, i guess?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: they were fine days - i never switched a page throughout.
erlehmann: and they actually failed at astral plane unicode characters
erlehmann: there are squares where cat faces should be
erlehmann: in a chapter about evolution of traditional smilies to emoji
erlehmann: german o'reilly was different. worse, if you ask me.
erlehmann: but i accidentally made someone hate me i guess
erlehmann: we developed book using git and RST (because almost plaintext), with reviewers who also used git.
erlehmann: but then drafts had to be sent as ODT and came back as PDF to be annotated. in hindsight that was probably a measure to prevent too many annotations.
erlehmann: turns out a bit of ghostscript can fix that problem
erlehmann: i think we submitted more changes than any other book by one or two orders of magnitude, just because we had it automated.
erlehmann: i later learned someone corrected all that stuff in the file sent to the printer by hand. their loss.
erlehmann: result: i tell people to not write a book.
mircea_popescu: anyway, this endless lulz of socialism whereby they come up with a dumb "solution" to a non-problem which sane people ignore ("code pages") and THEN they come up with an "improved" solution to the same nonproblem and expect sane people to not piss on their face because hey, IMPROVED!
mircea_popescu: children that should have died of exonsure suspended from anal hooks in the open before the age of twelve.
erlehmann: great leap forward was self-correcting, wasn't it?
mircea_popescu: fucking "spellchekers", they have 1/3 my vocabulary and no head for puns.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-06 00:43 asciilifeform: (mostly) unrelatedly, asciilifeform bought some chinese $various , and , in the crate, discovered a phree goodie, a 'voltalert' tool, that supposedly tests for presence of mains current noncontactfully -- by looking for 50/60Hz electric field. but witness the surprise : it gives false negative on maybe 1/3 of the hot mains wires tried...
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 19:55 erlehmann: asciilifeform you long for the days of codepage switching, i guess?
erlehmann: asciilifeform have you reverse engineered the thing and analyzed the fault?
a111: Logged on 2017-07-06 00:46 asciilifeform: possibly delicate balance, between finding it anywhere in the room ( as a poorly made amp will ) and nowhere
erlehmann: bennett put dead salmon in fMRI machine
mircea_popescu: discussions of how mri is not science plastered all over teh logs.
mircea_popescu: works my foot. "this section of the brain fucked your mother"
mircea_popescu: our cook's thermometer clearly indicates that the fault in koch's gpg is located in the upper left cpu quadrant.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i am speaking of the principle, described ^
mircea_popescu: how classical is your classical, becuase that item is ~60s ?
mircea_popescu: trinque a fine example, too, the more i think of it the more i like it. aedificium (=building) != aedificans (... building) != aedificant (still!!! building) and so on and so forth qs.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
mod6: nice, i do have one, but it was from a while ago.
mod6: no, didn't build with -cargs -O2, just did `gnatmake ffa ffa_fact`
mod6: it's still running. should i recompile & re-run?
mod6: ok, it doesnt recognize `gnatmake -cflags -02 ffa ffa_fact`
mod6: barfs spitting out flag usage, neither of which are available.
mod6: also, makefile doesnt seem to work, i seem to recall this from before.
mod6: Makefile:33: *** missing separator. Stop.
mod6: to resolve those, i had to yank target instructions to the same line as the target var.
mod6: then add '\' following those.
mod6: now i get: make: *** No rule to make target 'gnatmake', needed by 'ffa'. Stop.
mod6: yah, gotta be the version of my make is different than yours, plus, i'm not using adacore's gnat
☟︎ mod6: $(GNATMAKE) -c $(PROGRAM) $(ARGS)
mod6: ok, yeah, i guess it doesn't work.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
phf: asciilifeform: i don't think it's ben_vulpes's paster, it must be something in the pipeline
phf: gulag$ curl --silent $(printf '\t'|wotpaste)|xxd
phf: gulag$ curl --silent $(printf '\tFOO\t\t'|wotpaste)|xxd
phf: 00000000: 0946 4f4f 0909 .FOO..