log
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mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you mean, besides it being illegal ?
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in the ongoin glulz, Biology-Babe 19F sub "I may be submissive by kink, but I am an strong independent women." LordMPofTMSR "Everyone thinks so." Biology-Babe "Jesus Christ. Fucking respect me you misogynistic douche" LordMPofTMSR "Nah."
ben_vulpes: illegal per usg "accredited investors" circus?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-26#1829604 << wait what script ?!☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-26 02:26 mod6: thanks for the script mircea_popescu!
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes well yes, you happen be raising children in a jurisdiction which has decided "issue fiat bonds" is a crown monolpoly.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: probably the jooblocker
mircea_popescu: i mean, i could also start a medicine w/o a license sideline for the same money.
mircea_popescu: oh oh right.
mircea_popescu: (contrary to common sense, these are pestilentially common in the us)
asciilifeform: !#s fix-a-flat lipo
a111: 0 results for "fix-a-flat lipo", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=fix-a-flat%20lipo
asciilifeform: hm.
mircea_popescu: is this the "industrial silocone butt injection" ?
asciilifeform: them
asciilifeform: regular, if modest in scale, corpse generator in this here monkeystan
mircea_popescu: myeah
asciilifeform assumed that ben_vulpes simply duncare re moving up in the gassing queue
ben_vulpes: there is the "convertible note", which is how the shartupists do a similar thing.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the 'shartupists' are agents of usg crown in good standing.
ben_vulpes: if mircea_popescu would spare a lecture on the notion, ex the usg gassing constraint, i would read intently.
mircea_popescu: huh ?
ben_vulpes: nevermind, i'll just read my kindleberger instead
asciilifeform: lolwat
mircea_popescu: does the thing have salespeople / funnel up yet ?
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo and lobbes have been working the hosting forums, i don't know what 'funnel' to put together other than get folks to sign into the #pizarro chat room and get them accounts
mircea_popescu: traditionally there's a landing page involved.
mircea_popescu: a/b testing, a whole spiel.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo has made http://pizarroisp.net/shared-hosting/ and finessed the copy on the rest of the site; isn't a/b testing on landing pages what you do after putting cash down on a CPM/CPC/CPA program?
mircea_popescu: well, after having some sort of flow large enough to be statistically meaningful, yes.
ben_vulpes: and with clickbank not touching btc, 'a(nonymous)-ads' out for not being in the wot all these years, i'm back to the drawing board on where to buy ads/how to drive traffic
mircea_popescu: so is the idea your contribution sums up to "i don't know how to organize sales and why don't we do more fiat things" ?
mircea_popescu: there's about 500 billion fiat-like isps. you can probably buy euro-denominated bonds fron hetzner or ovh or w/e as it is.
mircea_popescu: and they also implement the latest european commision directive or w/e they call the bullshit in-game.
ben_vulpes: i definitely don't know how to organize or drive sales, doing what i see needs doing, and what gets suggested to me, and float my own (bad) ideas. i'm in no way attached to "fiat things". because the exchange rate is eroding capitalization so brutally i thought it worthwhile to take another one on the chin in case this particular bad idea had some flake of merit in it.
mircea_popescu: yeah, the downmovement caught you overcapitalized/underequipped did it.
ben_vulpes: 100%
mircea_popescu: fortunately, it was yet small.
ben_vulpes: betting that the bill for the rockchip plant is going to hurt by the same token
ben_vulpes: !!up mobile436523 hola
deedbot: mobile436523 voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: what can you do.
ben_vulpes: during the day: sweat! during the night: sweat! but also stare at the ceiling
mircea_popescu: at least you get to come.
mircea_popescu: and in other holy shit pantsuitidiocy, the world of wankfic historical rewrites doesn't begin or end with tarantino's "inglorious basterds" imbecility. there's also something called "in tranzit", with the malkovitch moron. about how women can be like, persons and things, dontcha know, even in 1946.
mircea_popescu: terribad ; but to add idiocy to idiocy, they use и instead of N because won't thart be authentic. so you end up with "JOHИ" derpopovich.
mircea_popescu: ima totally call that fucktard joni malkovich from now on.
asciilifeform: dafuq
mircea_popescu: whole new sorta eggog.
mircea_popescu: aaand in other lulz, "if (int16 (CS::Threading::AtomicOperations::Decrement (&typeAndRefCount) & 0xffff) <= 0)
mircea_popescu: "
mircea_popescu: oh and in re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-25#1829543 i am pleased to announce s.mg is ripping out googletest infrastructure. good fucking riddance, evil imbeciles.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-25 21:55 deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/how-to-remove-usgalphabet-usually-called-google-by-the-jews-pantsuit-from-your-web-experience/ << Trilema - How to remove USG.Alphabet (usually called "google" by the jews & pantsuit) from your web experience.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what was 'googletest' ?
mircea_popescu: google does all sorts of "useful" things, basically trying to copy the tmsr model. they have a "google fonts" thing half the sites on the internet link (and in the process, give usg details on the zeks whereabouts every so often) ; they have a "code repository" about a quarter the sites on the internet link (this is instrumental in the multi-mb liquid shit webpage era -- 0 cost liquid shit provided by usg's own alphabet. they
mircea_popescu: have their own "programming languages" and "toolkits" for all sorts of crap. therein included, a "testing framework".
mircea_popescu: i think they're making a browser and a compiler also.
asciilifeform: aa
mircea_popescu: in the instant case, it's about 200k loc of nsa strange + of course all sorts of undesirable dependencies (such as... cmake)
asciilifeform: they run on trooly vertically-integrated arse-mouth system, verily; asciilifeform to this day has not succeeded in building any of their 'open' sores of e.g. cr50
mircea_popescu: diana_coman has the whole list if you're curious.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-26#1829969 you know ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-26 21:20 hanbot: mircea_popescu by design apple exists to try and make you use its thing, whether it's some itam or some os or some cable, and it'll make things maximally unpleasant for anyone not on the bandwagon, at any point where the nonapple and the apple touch.
asciilifeform: ( pretty much requires dedicated box where you set up ~their~ crapola, all the way down , to build any of it )
asciilifeform: i'm actually impressed that you folx managed to build any of it on a human compiler
mircea_popescu: it's not "apple". it's google, it's "fiat bonds". what, you're gonna issue fiat bonds, well, "gotta import this here 2mn loc of inane bs / assorted strange". it will include "gotta use ssh/dns/tor/etc" just as it will include "gotta http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-27#1830007 code of conduct" and so forth.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-27 00:12 mircea_popescu: meanwhile in the ongoin glulz, Biology-Babe 19F sub "I may be submissive by kink, but I am an strong independent women." LordMPofTMSR "Everyone thinks so." Biology-Babe "Jesus Christ. Fucking respect me you misogynistic douche" LordMPofTMSR "Nah."
asciilifeform: ( it is prolly analogous to asciilifeform's feat, some yrs ago, of building working microshit drivers using gcc )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform or, for that matter, to the feat of interfacing with fetlife.
asciilifeform: prolly similar flavour.
mircea_popescu: verily.
mircea_popescu: but since we're doing flavours, here's a bit of flavour : this certain slut's not been allowed to cum for a long time now, i won't get into the details. as i'm running out of unpleasant things to make her to to herself (btw, ever had a girl rub salt in her snatch ?), she got ordered to buy some nice thick candles ("you got candles ?" "you mean like tealights ?") and deepthroat them while dripping wax on her snatch and rubbing
mircea_popescu: it out.
mircea_popescu: guess what happened ?
asciilifeform: lol!
mircea_popescu: you're supposed to guess what happened!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-03#1595615 << prolly this☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-03 18:09 asciilifeform: 'Вот царевна под замком / стонет сизым голубком, / слезы тяжкие роняет, / за свечой свечу вставляет... / Извела уж сто свечей, / а ничуть не легче ей.'
mircea_popescu: nope.
mircea_popescu: ~power went out~
asciilifeform: ahahahaha
mircea_popescu: you get me, misfortunate slut trying to escape the banana republic ? lives in one of the top 10 "majorest urban centers" in that decrepit shithole
mircea_popescu: there she is, rubbing herself by candle light like a god damned monkey
mircea_popescu: if she didn't have me, she'd be actually in the dark.
mircea_popescu: how'd you like that FUCKING FLAVOUR ?
mircea_popescu: the foregoing is strictly and absolutely true, by the way, not a stitch of fabrication (on either the story or the slut involved, for that matter).
asciilifeform believes
asciilifeform: wait, decrepit shithole ? this is an outpatient ?!
mircea_popescu: yes
asciilifeform: neato
mircea_popescu: we just recently met. "on" fetlife.
asciilifeform: aaah, these
mircea_popescu: yep.
mircea_popescu: was what we were discussing neh
mod6: mornin
asciilifeform: ohai mod6
mircea_popescu: how goes teh modlandia ?
mod6: ah, not too bad! need coffee, just catching up on the log.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, if anyone explains the difference between a) "an strong independent women" (hey, at least she omitted the s plural, inexplicably) ; b) "ssl is good for you and openssh bla bla bla tor bla bla hurr" ; c) http://qntra.net/2018/06/australia-ramps-up-flight-security-theater-with-powder-restrictions/ http://qntra.net/2018/06/british-court-places-rappers-under-musical-court-supervision-for-3-years/ etc etc, i'
mircea_popescu: m all ears.
mircea_popescu: all i can see from this chair is a bunch of "please care about us" peculiar toolings. exactly the gates gambit of 1980s.
mircea_popescu: "no static linking" is how you say "no actual ownership of anything" in the context of computer programming and "i am heavily into consent" is how you say "no static linking" in the context of sexual practice and so fucking following.
mircea_popescu: !!up mobile436523
deedbot: mobile436523 voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: who might you be, then ?
BingoBoingo: In other news, the Uruguayos reinvented the hostel and the pension in still more retarded form https://www.elobservador.com.uy/coliving-una-tendencia-vivienda-que-busca-su-lugar-uruguay-n1247718
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo this is just us import, "roommates"
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: They've had versions already including living with the parents until the parents croak and the ghetto pensions which appear to be a Latino implementation of the traditional English "bedsit"
mircea_popescu: living with the cattle set to make a resurgence soonish.
BingoBoingo: Just about
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/06/popular-centerist-dutch-newspaper-attacked-with-flaming-van/ << Qntra - Popular Centerist Dutch Newspaper Attacked With Flaming Van
BingoBoingo: And the Fiber monopoly just called. Installation scheduled for next week.
mod6: cool
asciilifeform: !!up PeterL
deedbot: PeterL voiced for 30 minutes.
PeterL: hi, I was just trying to build the vtools, and I ran into this problem: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/AuLgQ/?raw=true
PeterL: I got the files from http://btcbase.org/patches/vdiff_sha_static
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/06/us-captures-35-entrepreneurs-in-coordinated-attack-on-commerce/ << Qntra - US Captures 35 Entrepreneurs In Coordinated Attack On Commerce
BingoBoingo: !Q later tell Jurov http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/HV7Z2/?raw=true
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i suppose now you can run your own hostel on wot basis!
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/imaginary-questions-nobody-asked-of-me-an-incomplete-compendium/ << Trilema - Imaginary questions nobody asked of me, an incomplete compendium.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: That could be a thing in the future
mircea_popescu: ikr.
BingoBoingo: The biggest problem with the hostel model as I've seen is that the "anyone can book" aspect means at least once a month someone who isn't fit to sleep with the cattle ends up not only staying, but frequently overstaying.
BingoBoingo: In other news the Junkie from http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/03/02/notes-from-observing-a-latino-junkie-on-vacation/ is back. I don't know what the fuck happened to the apartment he "bought" in Punta Del Este. Of all the people from earlier who could have returned before I left it had to be the scumbag trying his very hardest to die.
mircea_popescu: i said wot.
BingoBoingo: Right, the wot fixes that problem. A recommendation only hostel wouldn't get that kind of vermin
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-27#1830123 >> 'Seizure of nearly 2,000 Bitcoins and other cryptocurrencies ... Bitcoin mining devices, computer equipment' << waterfall is well-fed this summer☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-27 15:21 deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/06/us-captures-35-entrepreneurs-in-coordinated-attack-on-commerce/ << Qntra - US Captures 35 Entrepreneurs In Coordinated Attack On Commerce
asciilifeform: '...numerous U.S. Postal Service shipping boxes, already addressed to customers around the United States, which boxes contained hairbrushes some of which had already been packed with powder cocaine for distribution' << lol!!
asciilifeform: hairbrushes. by post.
asciilifeform: didjaknow.
asciilifeform: 'At the time of arrest, law enforcement had already seized approximately $437,000 in cryptocurrencies from Powell' << do they have some very speshul hot irons installed at police station nao, or how else 'time of arrest' cokemachine.
asciilifeform: this just gets lulzier, 'Porras and Vue then laundered the Bitcoin proceeds of their drug distribution through the HSI undercover agent located in New York' << hey mircea_popescu didja know that btc had to be 'laundered' ?
mircea_popescu: eh, whole stack of nonsense so tall by now, attempts to interact with it on the face indistinguishable from pardoy.
asciilifeform: 'McMonegal then laundered the Bitcoin proceeds of his drug distribution through an undercover agent located in New York. After receiving the Bitcoin from McMonegal, the undercover agent mailed parcels of cash to McMonegal in San Luis Obispo and Mariposa' << wat even.
asciilifeform: day at the circus.
mircea_popescu: as far as anyone knows, usg is still churning the same bitcoin dust it got by clicking on faucets back in 2012. first it "sold it" via the usms scam, now it "captured" it and so following.
asciilifeform finds it quite impossible to refute this hypothesis with data available to him
mircea_popescu: i don't get the hairbrushes twist. is cocaine supposed to look like dandruff or what ?!
asciilifeform: presumably in the handles ?
asciilifeform: iirc i saw a photo of such a cheap trick in a ru prison smuggling discussion
mircea_popescu: http://www.wfmj.com/story/37983171/ypd-finds-suspected-heroin-hidden-in-hairbrush << seems they have a factory of Evidence Hairbrush
mircea_popescu: or somesuch
asciilifeform: three doors down from the one where they make the 'grenade launcher' that is inevitably somehow found in erry busted house
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in peculiar deaths, "Dr. Andreas Niederbichler, 42, put cocaine on his penis before the unnamed 38-year-old woman went down on him. Police say Niederbichler did the same thing with three other women."
mircea_popescu: (spoiler -- she died)
asciilifeform: must be roadcone cock, to hold lethal dose, eh
mircea_popescu: http://a57.foxnews.com/images.foxnews.com/content/fox-news/health/2018/04/13/doctors-lover-dies-after-ingesting-cocaine-while-performing-sex-act-report-says/_jcr_content/par/featured_image/media-0.img.jpg/931/524/1523653527588.jpg << looks like he needed it, too.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not really, if it's uncut and the woman's unused, she can croak just fine out of a sprinkling.
asciilifeform: interesting
mircea_popescu: penis terrible delivery mechanism, you never know how much gets slobbered down your ballsac etc.
mircea_popescu: there's a reason doctors don't deliver medicine this way, you know ?
asciilifeform: iirc it's the strongest known local anaesthetic.. why wouldja put it on cock
asciilifeform: d00d must've suffered from light trigger
mircea_popescu: i have nfi, ~none of it makes any sense
asciilifeform: in reich courts, facts are entirely optional, 'mens rea' suffices, 'he thought it was a genuine death ray', 'he bought the sugar from usg agent thinking it was cocaine, guilty of 25 pound of cocaine, 25 to life, next' etc.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the world is full of junkies going "he-he, 1 gram cocaine ld50, i once bla bla bla". yes, obviously, if you do enough it stops doing anything whatsoever eventually. but in civillians...
asciilifeform: aha, hence the typical end of career, where d00d cools heels in a jail for a spell, then, gets out, buys his old dose, 'celebrate'
asciilifeform: ( speaking of which... anybody hear from gabriel_laddel lately ..? )
mircea_popescu: or, "here, everyone does this much", 16 yo gets seizures. "everyone ie a bunch of old crack whores ?! wow!"
mircea_popescu: and, of course, genetics. i wonder why alf's "drunk" booze level is samoan's "dead" booze level.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: do the inca ( err, the classical ones, in south a. ) have analogous enzyme for coca ?
mircea_popescu: i have nfi
asciilifeform: perhaps BingoBoingo knows..
BingoBoingo: I have my doubts that they do. They ones who do it here are mostly bums getting hight off of low content waste products.
asciilifeform: PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-27#1830121 << lemme guess, were you building on crapple ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-27 15:16 PeterL: hi, I was just trying to build the vtools, and I ran into this problem: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/AuLgQ/?raw=true
asciilifeform: !!up PeterL
deedbot: PeterL voiced for 30 minutes.
PeterL: asciilifeform: worse, this is cygwin
PeterL: is the token SWAP_BE64 something that you don't have to define on good systems?
phf: PeterL: the approach that we've been taking with legacy C code is pulling out autotools, and replacing with a single #ifdef/.. configuration header. outside of linux/bsd code is probably not going to work, and the approach is to look at the configuration header file (http://btcbase.org/patches/vdiff_sha_static/tree/vtools/src/system.h#L145 in case of vtools) and patch it for your system
asciilifeform: this headache oughta start evaporating once we pin down gcc for all time
phf: well, not until we also start providing our own, portable libc with all the possible portable functionality included. like bswap64 in this case
asciilifeform: phf: musl
phf: that's not the source of the issue though, musl is libc, all the other libc's also support the entirety of libc, the horror crawls through the parts where no libc or posix or whatever exists. for example byteswapping code is not in there
asciilifeform: phf: right, but if errrybody is building off same libcism, proggies will be massaged until builds without eggog
asciilifeform: the nonsense where each builder has own ball of ??? masquerading as a working toolchain/headers/etc set, has gone on long enuff imho
asciilifeform: i abolished it in trb ( rotor ) , ave1 -- for gnat, and really ought to end with the logical conclusion, standard cuntoo musl/headers/gcc.
phf: hmm
phf: well, in that case the problem is already solved. if PeterL were to install cuntoo with musl (or without) vtools will build.
phf: but where this subthread started "_outside of linux/bsd_ code is probably not going to work, and the approach is to look at the configuration header file and patch it _for your system_
asciilifeform: right, folx who insist on using heathen ??? toolchain, are on their own.
phf: vtools are already pre-heathened, support apple and freebsd
mod6: Ladies and Gentlemen of the Republic, if anyone has any updates or changes to the list of Advertised Republican Nodes, please let me know as soon as possible. Thanks in advance.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the cocaine mystery resolved by the conclave of girls that know all sexual things (tm) : yes strongest local anesthetic ; the thing called "face fucking" (ye olde irrumatio, as in "paedicabo ego vos et irrumabo") requires a skilled practitioner on the receiving side. if doctor prefers to fuck other people's wives, anesthesia help.s
asciilifeform: ha.
asciilifeform: still seems like 'if yer sexing requires anaesthesia, yer doing sumthing wrong' but what do i know.
mircea_popescu: i hope you're as impressed as me with the nude and rude, "ask a question, get an answer, this isn't fucking about".
asciilifeform: trooly.
mircea_popescu: sex > programming!
asciilifeform: programming already mostly done under anaesthetic, consider how many of the practitioners won't even report for dooty if they're out of $substance
mircea_popescu: word.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-27#1830191 << ahahaha this guy.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-27 18:18 phf: vtools are already pre-heathened, support apple and freebsd
mircea_popescu: in other strange, there's apparently a town of ypsilanti in michigan.
asciilifeform: phf: if the support is implemented with #ifdef's, then it really gotta go imho
asciilifeform: ifdefs are evil.
asciilifeform: ( a proggy that can't get by without'em, really oughta be split into vtrees per idjit os/iron/etc that were formerly ifdef'd coadpaths )
asciilifeform: because otherwise, folx are in effect signing coad they could not possibly have tested.
asciilifeform: it is for this reason that asciilifeform cut most ( unfortunately not all, there is room for improvement! ) ifdefolade, out of trb.
asciilifeform: ( see also e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-03#1595513 , http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-03#1359475 , http://btcbase.org/log/2015-12-19#1347881 , http://btcbase.org/log/2014-10-24#894345 , elsewhere. )☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-03 17:27 asciilifeform: it was literally a week+ of sawing off #includes, nixing #ifdef's, moving blocks of code from 1,001 places and deduplicating, etc.
a111: Logged on 2016-01-03 03:48 mircea_popescu: <ascii_rear> static, de-#ifdef'd, etc. <<< that's pretty cvool actually.
a111: Logged on 2015-12-19 22:28 asciilifeform: 'portable' on my planet means PORTABLE and not a gaggle of #ifdef's
a111: Logged on 2014-10-24 23:22 asciilifeform: because all that was done in patch 1, is remove ifdef crud
phf: considering that no one but myself have signed vtools i'm not too worried about that part
asciilifeform: the principle of the thing, phf
asciilifeform: i've prolly signed a #ifdef DEC_PDP11 piece of shit at some point. dun mean it ain't a sin.
phf: well, in principles i'm not buying the untested code signing argument, because we don't have a universal measure for what code signing indicates. you've attempted to solve that problem, but it's not been used by anyone. i think right now effectively code signing works like a wot rating, without a rating. you have to consult with the signer to discover what the intent was.
asciilifeform: phf: however it ends up defined, signing coad you could not possibly have run, and which -- given how c worx -- could contain literally ~anything~ -- can't possibly be The Right Thing
mircea_popescu: phf this is not avoidable, to figure out ~why~ you put x.key in your seals dir you gotta know, human-know, what x stands for.
phf: well, vpatches without one true genesis implicitly bring in the world
phf: you're not signing that printf on counterparty's machine doesn't actually bind to system("rm ...")
asciilifeform: phf: that's rather exactly what you're signing when you sign a proggy with inactivated #ifdefolade
asciilifeform: unless you actually went and studied what happens in each possible combo of toggles
asciilifeform: on the requisite platforms etc
mircea_popescu: but what ~happens~ not ~what could happen~.
asciilifeform: correct, the 'could' is inaccessible.
mircea_popescu: so what is "happens" ? what ~should have happened~ or what ~did happen~ ?
asciilifeform: but dollars to doughnuts if you dun have e.g. pdp11, you won't bother reading its ifdef blocks; and supposing you did read'em, your grasp of what takes place inside won't be worth much if you don't regularly inhabit that platform
mircea_popescu: now this much is so.
mircea_popescu: on the other hand of this argument, "hey mp, what time is it ?" "when ? now ? or when you asked me ?"
asciilifeform: lol ntp thread!111
mircea_popescu: it is.
phf: this argument also applies to the entirety of code off the happy path. "but dollars to doughnuts if you dun have <particularly situation> you won't bother reading its <conditional blocks>".
asciilifeform: re ifdef, n00bz are invited to study how the c preprocessor worx, and shudder at e.g. the fact that they can contain ~other~ ifdef's, which in turn can change the meaning of ~any~ string in the proggy
asciilifeform: phf: this is an unfortunate fact of life for state machine, but it is to be ~fought~, not give in to.
mircea_popescu: phf the "considering that no one but myself have signed vtool" argument is disingenuous in the sense that of telling sons "considering i'm the only one fucking anything...". dami tempu ca ti pirtusu
mircea_popescu: in the sense of dad telling sons*
phf: mircea_popescu: it was more of a tongue in cheek, since i think that asciilifeform is tediously relentless on this particular point
asciilifeform: the correct way to handle the 'gotta change these 17 things to work on pdp11' problem is: v.
mircea_popescu: the problem though remains, and it goes right into ye olde orthogonality and language discussion ( http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-18#1772426 ) : for sigs to mean anything useful they must not mean anything systematical.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-18 20:11 mircea_popescu: and all this goes right into that older thread of ambiguity, orthogonality and language -- you can never make a language that's orthogonal and ~useful~ in the natural sense. let alone "that anyone'd want to use".
mircea_popescu: so it'd seem the directly evident solution is also correct : let him pull out all ifdefs and let you maintain them, and if this means divergent-same trees, what of it.
mircea_popescu: coherence is after all expensive, and yet-another statement of "the core of this here republic" would be that we don't value coherence above our own heads.
asciilifeform: witness, for instance, how the linux kernel became a 'katamari' of shit-you-will-never-run-even-if-you-live-for-9000-yrs
phf: asciilifeform: i'm still unconvinced by this line of argument, and not on technical merits. i think there's a point that i can't articulate, about what it is that you're signing exactly. an if-def-less code suffers from the same problem that you're trying to apply to ifdef specifically. i can't sign that printf is not malicious on the target machine.
asciilifeform: phf: you dun see a difference between printf() and wtf-func-that-only-exists-on-pdp() ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform show it to me ?
mircea_popescu: phf nevertheless, his argument is reductionist not categorical. saying "all men die, even those without pneumonia" is not a good reason for bb to not go see doctor.
asciilifeform: when you sign a snipped containing #ifdef pdp ... wtf() #endif , you are , unless explicitly otherwise claimed, signing a thing that you haven't the foggiest notion of running, or even statically digging into
asciilifeform: it's as simple as that
asciilifeform: *snippet
phf: mircea_popescu: but his argument doesn't indicate how pneumonia is a disease. "you will die from pneumonia" taken in isolation doesn't indicate "how soon", etc.
mircea_popescu: tru.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is certain.
asciilifeform: it's a hygienic concern, not a specific promise of imminent death
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform however : if you sign code you've not read, you sign code you've not read. if you sign code you've not ~run~, you don't necessarily sign code you've not read.
asciilifeform: this is entirely troo. in the simplest case, consider, comments
asciilifeform: these dun 'run' at all
asciilifeform: yet we sign'em
mircea_popescu: the signature is as to reading, ie, performative, i joe did this. it is not as to the world, ie, declarative, "sticks and stones won't break your bones".
asciilifeform: consider why asciilifeform removed the #ifdefolade ( and consequently, ALL asm inlines ) from mpi.
mircea_popescu: cuz asciilifeform did.
asciilifeform: i am not equipped to test the e.g. ppc routines; and ill-equipped to study'em and certify. and really if somebody wants'em badly, he oughta make use of v and make his branch.
mircea_popescu: hence the multi-tree comment earlier. this seems inescapable.
asciilifeform: it is The Right Thing.
mircea_popescu: and in practice, too. Mocky 's out there trying to run a eulora toolchain on windows i think, peterl trying to vtool on cygwin, etc
jurov: BingoBoingo: ack, will do
lobbesbot: jurov: Sent 6 hours and 13 minutes ago: <BingoBoingo> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/HV7Z2/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: my first step would be "omfg take that cygwin out". but as per phf's, since i'm not doing it...
asciilifeform: lulzily, asciilifeform was stuck in a winblowz slave galley some yrs ago, and ported whole buncha 'how does this even run, but it does' to cygwin
asciilifeform: but since forgot , like bad dream.
phf: well, like i said from that perspective there's nothing left to do, cygwin is not supported.
asciilifeform: i have no intention of helping winblowzism to continue.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform permit me to quote : "FindSortedKey<csFixedSizeAllocator<32u, CS::Memory::AllocatorHeap<CS::Memory::Heap*> >::BlockKey> (this=0x9aee6d3c, __in_chrg=<value optimized out>) at ./include/csutil/array.h:893"
asciilifeform: lol wassat
diana_coman: cs stands for crystalspace asciilifeform
mircea_popescu: i do not presently know.
mircea_popescu: but it works.
diana_coman: one of the many ways client croaks from time to time
asciilifeform: loox like ungodly debugolade ugly
diana_coman: it is, yes
asciilifeform: diana_coman: 'crystalspace' is 3d lib ?
mircea_popescu: it's a substitute boost in this case.
diana_coman: yes, engine and everything else in a can
mircea_popescu: and what it does to memory management is nobody's business
asciilifeform: looks painful
asciilifeform: ( and i recall several diana_coman articles on subj, nao )
asciilifeform: iirc diana_coman was writing a sane replacement for this item, slowly
mircea_popescu: but im starting to suspect it actually regexps over an indexed list.
mircea_popescu: to recover/match the indices.
mircea_popescu: you know, EXACTLY HOW KOCH GPG WORKS ?
mircea_popescu: "let's make keys, and let's give them indices that aren't guarantee to not collide, and then let's regexp match indices in this indexed list by AN EVEN SHORTER PATTERN"
diana_coman: asciilifeform, that is the deepest level of shit; sort of dungeon style, gotta peel them off one by one
asciilifeform deals in the restoration/repair of exactly this type of artifact , in the saeculum, and so can picture
mircea_popescu: it's just shocking to me how ~perdurant~ certain thought patterns are. in continuation of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-26#1829978 ; because ~how the fuck~ is it the case i'd find the same stupidity implemented by some orc kids in some video game engine wanna-be as usg's own brahmin german put in the post-zimmermann pgp massacre ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-26 21:27 mircea_popescu: once my seething rage piped down it occured to me that "dood, what you're almost entirely about is a rejection of the lamenormal. why are you wondering that consummate normalcy gets you pissed off and why are you surprised it produces itself ?!"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: do you remember your essay re 'neet' chix and their ~identical bedrooms ?
mircea_popescu: how do they even know to do this ? not like they're studying each other! fuck, not like they even have the ability to meet, or even speak.
asciilifeform: with the styrofoam boxes, piles of ???, et
asciilifeform: c
asciilifeform: it ain't any sort of surprise that they're all identical; next, what, wonder why all pigsty look ~same
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i am starting to feel exactly like golden age antrhopologists cca 1800s going "how the fuck did these primitives who didn't even sail manage to have ~the same myths~ ?"
asciilifeform: lolyes
diana_coman: eh, path of least resistance is same, what
mircea_popescu: nuts.
mircea_popescu: i am having a major perturbation, and have for weeks. this is just...
mircea_popescu: stone age tribe unknown to mankind, lost in the endless wastes of today's "Sakha Republic" and stone age tribe unknown to mankind, lost in the guarani lands in south america all agree, 3+5 = 11.
mircea_popescu: god help me.
asciilifeform: dun differ so much from the , what, half of the planet that thought that they think with their stomach
mircea_popescu: fwiw, asciilifeform 's lizard hitler hypothesis is exact modern restatement of ye olde "civilisation started by aliens" theory, which was precisely because belle epoque thinking folk threw their hands up over this exact stability.
asciilifeform: faraday threw hands over magnetic field lines, also, what of it.
asciilifeform: re the 3+5=11's , for some small # of possible values of 11, it dun strike me as in any way astonishing that folx with the same physiology will suffer same psychopathologies.
mircea_popescu: the reliability is starting to get to me.
asciilifeform: braincase that worx ok for walking around and not crashing into trees, is of limited use for moar complicated/abstract work, whod'vethunkit
asciilifeform: ( same braincase, also observe, seems to be optimized -- in factory model -- for baking justifications/bamboozlements/'cheque is in the mail' nonsense; and when applied to the technical , reliably produces 'surprisingly identical' piles of shit, also not surprising )
asciilifeform: the multilayered pile of ??? produced by 'programmer', is not so diff from schoolboy's pile of layered , tottering excuses for not having done the proverbial homework
mircea_popescu: this much is true, yes. "how come mothers always know what the kids' been up to ?!?!?!?!" "riiight. because kids are so fucking original."
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-21#1379603 << oblig☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-01-21 13:29 asciilifeform: 'if i make it what i think is the right size, it crashes!111'
trinque: commonalities among the preverbal gotta be built into the meat.
mircea_popescu: which takes us straight back to http://trilema.com/2014/the-definitive-tract-on-sociopathy/
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform now that all this is out of the way : would you say specific countermeasures people with known physiology take to avoid known psychopathology are engineering or not ? and if yes, what to yoi object in ifdefs besides the name ?
mircea_popescu: because this is all i can make of it, #ifdef 3+5=11moron, let 3+5=8.
mircea_popescu: to which alf answers "sorry, i only fuck 19yos, i can't tell you why the tits sag" and i go "sure you do, but other people not as fortunate."
asciilifeform: 'specific countermeasures' are imho rather wrongheaded approach. step1 is to correctly sort the shaved apes into the type that tries ( with variable success ) to climb ~down~ from trees, and the type which (ditto) ~back up~, and proceed from there
mircea_popescu: so where do you put the killer micro ?
asciilifeform: recall thread http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-07#1640167☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-04-07 18:24 mircea_popescu: no, let's also de-equivocate think. there's two kinds of think, one's a forge/reflow/examination of trees resulting in analytical consumption of inputs with actionable outputs guaranteed ; the other is a neurotic behaviour perhaps best described as spinning, whereby specific emotional triggers / detriggers are visited in succession. the prussian model was never concerned with the former in any sense, but merely aimed to elimi
asciilifeform: the 2 apes require very diff approaches. for one, it is possible to think of something like engineering. for other -- train, the way one trains circus seals.
mircea_popescu: no argument. but what is the ibm xt compatible, climbing down or back up ?
asciilifeform: why settle for small change of ibm xt, can ask re, e.g., nuke.
mircea_popescu: would you prefer i called it x86 ?
asciilifeform: it's perhaps the most illustrative argument, of folx who oughta know better, issuing the others with ladder with which to climb back into proverbial tree.
mircea_popescu: that's the problem here. "1. we have these machines ; 2. we know they're broken ; 3. alf objects to the curative process either because he doesn't like its name or because that which cureth could make ill."
asciilifeform: i dun object to junkyard wars -- if and where we must. but there is even there a 'up tree' and 'down tree' approach.
mircea_popescu: but yes the reason ifdefs exist is because machines are broken.
asciilifeform: not quite :
mircea_popescu: ifdefs don't flow from prime principles, they're no if.
asciilifeform: they exist because machines were broken ~and~ author lacked v.
mircea_popescu: or rather, because people would prefer a single trunk for all machines, diversely broken, than a trunk for each kind of breakage.
asciilifeform: so author ended up producing a program that is really 27 disjoint proggies masquerading as 1.
asciilifeform: this is intellectually dirty.
mircea_popescu: i dunno i'd go so far as that, but it definitely isn't great engineering.
asciilifeform: hygiene was a quite different affair before discovery of soaps, and likewise programming -- without v
mircea_popescu: having 27 independent restatements of the ~same thing is not intellectually dirty ?
asciilifeform: they ain't same thing, tho
asciilifeform: granted if they differ in pointless/trivial ways, e.g. targeting extinct iron, that's on the conscience of the folx continuing to elongate (supposing any exist) those branches.
mircea_popescu: yet http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-16#1800395☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-16 20:13 mircea_popescu: anyway, to get back to the 2nd fold of the error : the NOTION of translation is pernicious, and stuff like the protestant lulz of "church of self-esteem" or "we choose to emphasize <bla>" are not unbound errors.
asciilifeform: what asciilifeform would like, is at the very least to stop elongating the dead branches himself. and to stop encouraging others. for this, it is necessary to actually cut the variants into branches.
mircea_popescu: seems the ifdef approach to the problem is more in the vein of the kaballah+commentary (ie, the right thing) than in the vein of the xtian "translated scripture" + "megachurch", ie, idiocy.
asciilifeform: the kabbalist is intellectually ahead of the ifdefist -- he reads what he comments/copies.
asciilifeform: i cut winblowz #ifdefolade out of trb because i did not read it and don't intend to.
asciilifeform: if microshit ends up back from the dead and intellectually dominating the darkfyootoor , it can continue the old branch, and old dead asciilifeform won't be able to do a thing about it
asciilifeform: and this is the way it is.
mircea_popescu: this is traditionally the view of rabbis re bulk of commentary mass.
asciilifeform: i am unequipped to comment in detail on the rabbis and their planet.
mircea_popescu: ifdef amirite.
asciilifeform: i looked in my copy of talmud and did not find ifdefs, lol
asciilifeform: but possibly i dunno where to look
mircea_popescu: i'm saying you're ifdefing it away.
mircea_popescu: to bring this flock back to the manger : what you choose to cut out to stay afloat in the postmodern deluge of intellectual objects is your choice!
asciilifeform: it is my understanding that they tossed'em 1500 or so yrs back.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, not all these choices can actually be made into meaning.
asciilifeform: my orig point -- asciilifeform won't be in the future signing coad that he is not equipped to run / study in detail.
mircea_popescu: but i suspect you will rue this day if you were to actually get your way, and at some point in 2118 all the work available consists of "try and write this thing from tree y for tree z, we don't currently know why it's a broken polymorphism to the x tree"
asciilifeform: and this specifically includes, tho not limited to , #ifdef pdp11 ...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dunno if i will live to see the end of nonstandard iron / os / junkyard wars. but would like to, at any rate.
mircea_popescu: no, this is simply "27 different proggies, no longet try to masquerade as 1"
asciilifeform: and whatever is in my hands that can contribute to the extermination of the pointless babel, i'ma push.
mircea_popescu: the dispute is as to whether contributing.
asciilifeform: if folx continue to operate 27 pointlessly incompatible platforms, and burn their lives fiddling with otherwise healthy coad to make it go on'em, what can i say, the gods have cursed'em and it is not in my power to uncurse
mircea_popescu: seems the likely course, neh ?
asciilifeform: likely if no effort at all is made to debabelize.
mircea_popescu: and if effort is made, no more specificity of diddling, cr51 for them all ?
asciilifeform: observe that ffa runs , per PeterL, on winblowz, despite asciilifeform having made 0 effort in this direction
asciilifeform: i deliberately wrote portable proggy. not even married, afaik, to 8bit byte.
mircea_popescu: well yes, the protabilityhell starts with printf, which is why phf was using that as example.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the extant babel does not contribute to nonspecificity-of-diddling. if anything, quite the opposite.
mircea_popescu: how do you reason ?
asciilifeform: 1 well-understood system 'to rule'em all', fits in head and demonstrably bug-free , and babel -- ends.
mircea_popescu: ye olde dos fit this, yes ? ye olde lispm, perhaps, also ?
asciilifeform: not really, no
asciilifeform: ( dos dun really belong in a discussion of systems, it is more or less 'naked x86 iron, write own os per proggy' )
asciilifeform: ye olde lispm was pile of undergrad beer and pizza hacks, from a software quality pov.
asciilifeform: if it had been written to a standard of 'i throw a dart, and you , programonkey, WILL justify the existence of this line, or die' the coadbase would weigh 1MB .
asciilifeform: and we'd still be able to run it.
mircea_popescu: i dunno...
mircea_popescu: in less lofty matters, do you happ[en to recall where the fuck i said essentially "women are the societal scar tissue, by the time males start leaving a field and women start joining it, it's fucked" ?
asciilifeform: hmm
asciilifeform: variously repeated item, it is in one of the programming-related trilemas at the very least
mircea_popescu: perhaps a continuation of ballas' point re male nurses, but fucked i be if i can find it again.
asciilifeform: grep 'greenspun', prolly will find.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile http://btcbase.org/log/2012-08-24#-301505☝︎
a111: Logged on 2012-08-24 01:31 EmanuelDeOrtego_: I like that there are so many women involved with Bitcoin.
asciilifeform: see also naggum's http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-18#1615386 item☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-02-18 22:29 asciilifeform: '... what was once dedication is replaced by greed and sometimes sheer need as the motivation to enter the field.'
mircea_popescu: you think these related ?
asciilifeform: he was discussion the deskilling. which, yes, related.
asciilifeform: deskilling classically precedes feminization of a profession
mircea_popescu: i wonder what the link is.
mircea_popescu: ironically (at least from my experience), girls significantly more dedicated and skillable than boys.
asciilifeform: old man tailor disappears, replaced with '9000' biorobot seamstresses working 'singers' in pre-drawn pattern, etc
mircea_popescu: this much is rather factual.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is unfortunate that same word 'skill' is used to describe both items
asciilifeform: it is a dull knife imho.
mircea_popescu: which items ?
asciilifeform: the tailor's 'skill' and the biorobot's.
mircea_popescu: i wasn't saying this at all.
mircea_popescu: no, genuinely, it's both easier and faster to teach a girl ~anything.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall the episode with your burned out water pump ?
asciilifeform: and the wastebaskets
mircea_popescu: yes ?
asciilifeform: i can only presume that the subj gurl was as well-taught as any mircea_popescu patient
asciilifeform: yet , iirc in mircea_popescu's words, 'she broke down in storm of snot' when faced with minor unexpected boojum.
mircea_popescu: not at all. what, i don't give physics crash courses upon admission.
asciilifeform: it ain't about deep physics , no.
asciilifeform: but about ability to deal with the unexpected, the nonstandard. this i see as measure of 'capital S' skill.
mircea_popescu: yes, but it ain't about "minor unexpected" either. it's that i was there, it has everything to do with me and how much she wants to please/impress/etc.
asciilifeform: and afaik is not trainable.
mircea_popescu: i don't see this.
asciilifeform: granted asciilifeform has 1 pet, and not 9000. but regularly witnesses the water pump scenario.
asciilifeform: arbitrarily deeply trainable in specifics, but they tend to collapse under 'this system i did not even know existed, has broken down', is my impression.
mircea_popescu: how do you discern if you're measuring the fermion's flavour rather than the tool's flavour ?
mircea_popescu: there's no way known to measure individual particles, they use particle interaction, yes ?
asciilifeform: i am not equipped to discern. all i got, is what's visible from my perch thus far.
mircea_popescu: if you don't watch at least two of them interact, then what can you say.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wouldja care to share how they reacted, in 2+ mass, to the water outage ?
mircea_popescu: well in this case we all laughed.
asciilifeform: all broke down in snot ? or did a leader arise among'em, and direct repairs, give marching orders to the rest
mircea_popescu: well... consider the recently discussed case of amphibian landing.
mircea_popescu: girl drove ~through~ rather than stopping and choking my engine.
asciilifeform considers
mircea_popescu: this counts in your model ?
mircea_popescu: "utterly fucking broken down system of major complexity -- i have identified correct way out and the pedal goes down"
asciilifeform: but mircea_popescu fredericus-drilled his driver chix to never stop without order, neh
mircea_popescu: ~50ms or so.
mircea_popescu: neh.
mircea_popescu: i never taught anyone how to drive, i don't even drive myself.
asciilifeform: prolly bad example, nao that i think of it, pretty much any multidecade driver, incl. asciilifeform , would've handled the eggog correctly, in 50ms ( allowing for length of his legs )
mircea_popescu: but i thought the argument was as to difference, rather than "any driver"
mircea_popescu: also, she's a) too young to have multi decade driven and b) only recently allowed to drive at all anyway. so...
asciilifeform: could then be proverbial 'stopped clock shows right time', then. i've nfi.
mircea_popescu: could be that women are actually better drivers, if not fucked in the head by idiot mother/bf combo.
asciilifeform: could be. if only because shorter legs, even.
mircea_popescu: she's taller than you.
asciilifeform: we were speaking of 'women' , not 'she', neh
mircea_popescu: well ok, but i like 'em tall.
asciilifeform: ( for all i knew , the 'she' was also a trained all-terrain racer , etc )
mircea_popescu: i am seriously considering buying her a racer if i ever europe again.
asciilifeform: vrooom
trinque recently hired sister in an "answer the phone, handle all shitshows" role. job's literally "fill all gaps", hits things she never trained for all day.
asciilifeform: lucky fella, trinque , to have such relatives
asciilifeform: upstack -- for whatever reason, the lowell mills and straight to modern chinesium plants, use chix, they seem more content to perform repeated program all day, erry day.
trinque: only two data points, but she blows the male tech out of the damned water.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know there's a quote for this, and it goes like "Just because females could endure anything does not mean they should is my view I suppose"
mircea_popescu: she has a point.
asciilifeform: trinque: typical 'male tech' today is not even fit to empty sewage tanks reliably, verily
asciilifeform: in su factories also was a thing, 'we hire females because they don't bender'
asciilifeform: folx with 'frustration threshold' set to 9000, and who go on 0 benders, ~can~ become , in principle, mircea_popescu's driver, or mega-ww2 nurse who handles 9000 wounded per hr when suddenly roused at 4 in the morning, or some other astonishing and meritorious thing. but the moar typically observed pattern, afaik, is the biorobot.
asciilifeform: sorta the problem with the chinese, per the old thread, in the larger picture.
BingoBoingo: ty jurov
trinque: in the case of my sister, sails like a champ, just doesn't produce own wind. this seems entirely biologically appropriate for her.
asciilifeform: trinque: that's the whole of asciilifeform's arg, aha
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: There's also the Rioplatense case of the bunnies that just... don't want to... Not if it doesn't involve cardboard sculpture
asciilifeform: re drivers and their long legs : su mil establishment did various tests, and reportedly concluded that chix would make ideal pilots -- take moar g's, typically better reaction, can work under outrageous o2 deprivation, etc. but they did not go so far as to start recruiting'em en masse. the americans, however... did. many great feats of pilotage nao ?
asciilifeform: so far all i know is re the tailhook thread.
mircea_popescu: the more typically observed pattern in humans, actually, is the skeleton.
asciilifeform: evidently there is moar to that biznis than physiological punishment.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i was speaking of the living, lol
mircea_popescu: yes well. this is a tenuous distinction.
mircea_popescu: anwyay, i am not responsible for moronia recruiting the wrong chicks.
mircea_popescu: i'm happy with my set, enough so as to not hire male drivers.
asciilifeform: what can they do, the Right Chix are evidently occupied, as mircea_popescu's drivers...
mircea_popescu: i always suspected us airforce preceded me.
asciilifeform: upstack -- the 'deskilling' process is concerned specifically with removal of 'heroes' , e.g. mircea_popescu's hand-picked acrobats, and their replacement with grey biomass.
asciilifeform: for the demented purposes of 'mass konsoomer crud', it made +ev sense.
asciilifeform: and so in erry case there was attempt to replace. the tailor, with 'singer' chix, the greybeard -- with google monkeys; the whole lot.
mircea_popescu: yet gorgo.
asciilifeform: where today is gorgo, lol
mircea_popescu: taste all the cunts ; when you find the salty one you got her.
asciilifeform: generally -- the industrialist saw the artisan as a headache, and killed him. nao we get to 'enjoy' the fruits of de-artisan'ed industry.
asciilifeform: ( recall mircea_popescu's faberge egg essay . )
asciilifeform: if you like faberge egg, yer outta luck, but on other hand if you like plastic eggs , with google firmware..
BingoBoingo: In other trivia Anthony Kennedy is giving up. Make SCOTUS, Great Again!
asciilifeform bbl,meat
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/the-cabinet-of-doctor-caligari/ << Trilema - The Cabinet of Doctor Caligari