ben_vulpes: btcvixen: why even show up if you can't even muster a squeak
a111: Logged on 2018-01-16 18:48 phf: one of many 19th c poems, that i can recite, while standing on a chair (a particular form of grownup entertainment apparently unknown in eslands)
a111: Logged on 2018-01-16 18:52 trinque: and got "shit, I joined the airforce to be in that gay-ass top gun movie, got instead desk, and military downsizing"
a111: Logged on 2018-01-16 18:55 trinque: it's possible ww3 might've almost made a country out of USA if it'd been fought in late 80s, and survived
mircea_popescu: the russki kids that "didn't want to" go to afghanistan and went anyway cuz who the fuck is asking them at least had the superficially coherent excuse that they did not believe in the soviet state. the ameritards by comparison "we only believe in it-gives-us-free-monies portion of us, no more", much less of an argument.
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-16#1771358 << this has such a delicious socialism scent to it. "twas easy for tov hruschev, he denounced stalin. tov popochev had to denounce palin, which didn't even historically exist. had to be recreated from old stalin photographs with moustache photochopped upside down!"
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2018-01-16 19:14 asciilifeform: i can't help but picture that eventually they will have to cast ~new~ lenins.
mircea_popescu: great novel title, too, "the public denouncement of past excesses that never actually occured"
mircea_popescu: a little bit of, "hey, women, did you know that before the pantsuited hilarity you had no rights, and she gave them to you ?" "what ?" "o, yeah. ourdemocracy!"
shinohai: hanbot: Did they sell genuine Kikes there?
mircea_popescu: (“Once they’ve been selected, there is no reason they should fail a single portion of the Q-course.”)
hanbot: shinohai only kike xeroxes
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "green beret" is literally mentioned in there
shinohai: Vixen implies its a female ben_vulpes
a111: Logged on 2018-01-16 19:35 asciilifeform: today i gotta do this with own hands. because nobody else will, for any money.
ben_vulpes: everyone's a truuu dom on the internet
a111: Logged on 2018-01-16 21:34 trinque: lobbes: yes, they crawl for "legitimate content" with good search ranking, steal, put ads next to it
a111: Logged on 2018-01-16 22:53 trinque: dem rst packets today
mircea_popescu: in other openssl gets prizes, today cisco got lenin prize for secure communications.
phf: oh, hah, i remember this "bytebeat" stuff, before it had a fancy name
☟︎ ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: venmo is a touchscreen software abomination that claims to suck money out of one us account and put it into another
mircea_popescu: phf shorts because you probably tore proper pants by climbing into tree.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-17 04:31 phf: oh, hah, i remember this "bytebeat" stuff, before it had a fancy name
a111: Logged on 2017-12-13 18:44 asciilifeform: and was played using clever method , where normally '1-bit' pc speaker membrane was allowed to travel 'partial' way , squeezing extra 'bitness'
Techman: mircea_popescu: what isy our take on bitcoin dropping below 10K (at least on binance)
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2018-01-16 15:15 asciilifeform: and yes his example snippet ~will~ barf. and no i won't spoil the puzzle by saying where and how. and no it is not hard to make 9000 similar examples.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-16 15:15 asciilifeform: if anyone finds so much as the smell of one -- i would like to hear about it, asap.
apeloyee:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-16#1771004 << it's not me that does it at the expense of obvious correctness, but _you_. instead of having the compiler enforce no access to Stack(0), one is forced to rely solely on manual checking. But enough about that trivial matter; I'll just make the change locally.
☝︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2018-01-16 15:13 asciilifeform: and willing to do so at the expense of obvious correctness ?
a111: Logged on 2018-01-16 15:57 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-16#1770890 << to be clear, the idea here is that you pick up the extant eulora client, gut it of the current eulora functionality, put eucrypt in there and proceed to implement your idea. this way you have a proved-to-cross-compile platform to start from.
esthlos: Rereading, seems clear that you want eulora's graphics engine.
☟︎ esthlos: Alternative is stupidly simple text-driven client; downloads multimedia using eucrypt
shinohai: Text-driven client is the holy grail for some of us Eulora people.
esthlos: shinohai: I've targeted this as my first real contribution to la serenissima
shinohai: You have my full support, and will be glad to help read/test any code you produce.
shinohai: I started some work on this over a year ago, simply too much work for me because of irl obligations unfortunately.
diana_coman: esthlos, "current eulora functionality" has nothing to do with graphics really; and client is totally up to players
diana_coman: you can play it with whatever client you want, that's the point
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-17 11:28 apeloyee:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-16#1771004 << it's not me that does it at the expense of obvious correctness, but _you_. instead of having the compiler enforce no access to Stack(0), one is forced to rely solely on manual checking. But enough about that trivial matter; I'll just make the change locally.
shinohai: Logged: 09:17 +Hasimir and yes, libgcrypt is part of the larger project, Werner and Niibe are at the core of GNU security.
jhvh1: shinohai: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 9568.75, vol: 38790.17876819 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 9459.4, vol: 131533.8373469 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 9569.0, vol: 10706.6833868 | Volume-weighted last average: 9489.31292948
esthlos: diana_coman I didn't mean to imply it would be "official" (tm) client
esthlos: but having one in existence would help fellows in shinohai's position
diana_coman: esthlos, certainly, not an issue; I think you are overthinking/overreading into this
shinohai: Well as diana_coman said, Eulora encourages one to customize to one's liking.
shinohai: You can play with pen and paper, I'm sure, if you find a method for so doing.
diana_coman: and fwiw see history of foxybot: it started precisely like that, as a player-made-for-own-use thing and it ended up bundled into "official" client
shinohai snail-mails diana_coman all my claim updates, looks around forlornly as they all vanish into lbn ....
diana_coman: now hmm, where was that bit written on trilema
apeloyee: MustNotZero has 0 to do with Stack(0) << I know.
shinohai: Round 1 .... FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT!
apeloyee: Hear, hear! If asciilifeform would agree to take discussion of why 1+1=2 elsewhere, I'll do.
apeloyee: the change to size Stack in the first paste was irrelevant
apeloyee: why should correctness depend on order of the arguments?
apeloyee: what functions can tolerate aliasing of arguments is talked of precisely nowhere. and it's easy to forget about that when changing them later. and aliasing is used extensively.
apeloyee: is invoked many times with output = one of inputs
esthlos: diana_voman very likely am over thinking things
esthlos: I will proceed one step at a time
apeloyee: this can be used to justify pointer arithmetic and what-not. Just don't do unsafe things!!
apeloyee: (as implemented in chapter 7, but not chapter 6)
shinohai: Diana Voman sounds very Soviet to me for some reason.
apeloyee: and add a new exercise: re-read all previous chapters and write what aliasing of arguments is safe
apeloyee: I think everything up to ch.5 is safe as long as arguments are either equal or don't overlap
apeloyee: *memory locations of the arguments
apeloyee: does gnat provide a facility to check aliasing at runtime?
☟︎ apeloyee: conditional jumps are OK if one of the destinations just aborts the program
apeloyee: aliasing checks are like range checks in this regard
apeloyee: then why "it gets nuked by No_Implicit_Conditionals."? wreckers (tm)?
apeloyee: well, ideally it would have a "No_Out_Arguments_Aliasing" restriction which would insert runtime checks
☟︎ apeloyee: gnat implements many nonstandard restrictions
apeloyee: yes. hence me bringing this item here
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 9962.0, vol: 43036.01398257 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 10082.0, vol: 142442.83558633 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 10048.3, vol: 11690.3715496 | Volume-weighted last average: 10053.8095595
a111: Logged on 2017-01-16 18:11 jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 828.5, vol: 5371.02382600 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 819.819, vol: 4067.02976 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 827.09, vol: 7289.43424066 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 820.81503, vol: 506972.47910000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 834.0, vol: 1190.23580128 | Volume-weighted last average: 821.002992125
BingoBoingo: Nah, this appears to be an Azn attempt at replicating white person's waterfall
shinohai: Gotta sell all my Bitcorn before the Missus finds out I spent all our monies on the Bitconnect ponzi.
apeloyee: can you think of a way to have the range of SP and of Stack be the same << this is plainly absurd. a N-sized stack has (modulo contents) N+1 possible states: "0 elements", "1 element", ..., "N elements". i.e.the ranges MUST differ, by exactly one.
BingoBoingo: In other shithole factories: meltdown/specte patches are making a bunch of industrial systems wobble! Chinesium's about to get a low more Pinoy
apeloyee: Logically, SP isn't a reference. It's a cursor, showing the boundary between the valid and invalid elements. If a line in a text editor has N sybols, then a cursor has N+1 valid positions. (Consider that an empty line sill has 1 valid cursor position).
apeloyee: an extra element won't save the father of russian democracy (c), if FFACalc stack manipulation code is wrong; e.g. if a 'Want(X)' statement is omiitted
apeloyee: if FFACalc code is correct, then it's also safe to omit that zero-indexed element from Stack
apeloyee: cursors are pointing _between_ elements
apeloyee: the proper range for a cursor into an array (1..N) is (0.5 .. N+0.5); this is usually shifted to become (1 .. N+1) as in text editors, but no reason not to shift in the other direction, as you did, to (0..N)
☟︎ apeloyee: SP _is_ a cursor, I'm merely suggesting to treat it as such
apeloyee: "1) ugly" << can't see that.; "2) ... it relies on type ranges for good chunk of the proofolade"<< if you really want, can explicitly declare a subtype of Stack_Positions, omitting 0 from it
apeloyee: well it'd turn a pop from empty stack into a range-dipping eggog instantly << the reason I even suggested that 3 weeks ago
a111: Logged on 2018-01-17 17:03 apeloyee: the proper range for a cursor into an array (1..N) is (0.5 .. N+0.5); this is usually shifted to become (1 .. N+1) as in text editors, but no reason not to shift in the other direction, as you did, to (0..N)
apeloyee: what's ugly about my proposal? only two lines changed
a111: Logged on 2016-01-21 13:29 asciilifeform: 'if i make it what i think is the right size, it crashes!111'
apeloyee: ~will~ write to the zero cell << why not to minus-one cell then
apeloyee: doesn't gnat have a facility to control the layout of memory?
apeloyee: put a dummy array of 4 (or whatever) elements just before the Stack
apeloyee: it's a wonder -gnatp doesn't disable nullity checks
deedbot: freetlas voiced for 30 minutes.
freetlas: Wow, first time I see too many people in here :o
freetlas: asciilifeform: Just a person who likes to read trilema from time to time :)
apeloyee: from above: "Check that the actual parameters of a subprogram call are not aliases of one another. To qualify as aliasing, the actuals must denote objects of a composite type, their memory locations must be identical or overlapping, and at least one of the corresponding formal parameters must be of mode OUT or IN OUT. "
apeloyee: nuffin wrong with conditional jumps, if one destination aborts.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 23:30 asciilifeform: trinque: if you really hate files, you are welcome to make the whole proggy 1 file
BingoBoingo: It gets 30 minutes with the audience, remarks on the size on the audience, and then silence
apeloyee: a vpatch's purpose is twofold. 1) to provide a way to construct some files based on some antedecent files, whose hashes are given. 2) to take some responsibility about the entire tree. but the signature on a vpatch doesn't fix the state of the tree; it is defined implicitly by antedecent patches, which are liable to change at any time ("regrinding") and thereby change some files not...
☟︎ apeloyee: ...referenced in a particular vpatch
apeloyee: hence the hash-manifest proposals
apeloyee: files are NOT INDEPENDENT. despite CVS and v pretending they are. this is a problem. you could have required some form of cryptographic commitment to either the tree state or even the antedecent patches themselves, but didn't
☟︎ apeloyee: do you advocate the brick "lisp machine", too?
apeloyee: well, your point seems to be specifically that work which can be done by machine is shifted onto a human. this is insane.
BingoBoingo: On most days they do not explode on this side of the border.
BingoBoingo: The closest thing so far was they time an Israeli embassy worker was busted with a bomb or fake bomb near the WTC
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Uruguay pointedly does not border Columbia. Other side of the Continent
BingoBoingo: Anyways Artigas is about as far north as you can get in Uruguay.
apeloyee: that's a spurious objection. one need not to sign an antedecent state, one needs to sign a RESULTING state. to expand on
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-17#1771900 , you're free to pick individual files from wherever, possibly several different trees, but there needs to be a tree hash in the _leaf_ patch. and it MUST match the resulting tree (under the principle that patch author takes the...
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2018-01-17 19:31 apeloyee: a vpatch's purpose is twofold. 1) to provide a way to construct some files based on some antedecent files, whose hashes are given. 2) to take some responsibility about the entire tree. but the signature on a vpatch doesn't fix the state of the tree; it is defined implicitly by antedecent patches, which are liable to change at any time ("regrinding") and thereby change some files not...
apeloyee: ...responsibility for the resultant tree state).. otherwise it's unclear what one signs.
trinque: they're equivalent neh? signed antecedent state or signed resulting state + fact that the patch is signed
trinque: and in the case of signed antecedent state, don't have to press first to know if you could
apeloyee: well, a hash is not the same as the signature, but otherwise yes.
apeloyee: but there can be several of them
trinque: pretty obvious I'm saying signed hash, i.e. hash is in the signed vpatch
trinque: asciilifeform: to see if I can restate your opinion back to you, if I edit (as single author) both readme.txt and doesallthework.adb in separate vpatches, your view is I combine those into a single vpatch, if I want to build atop both in a new vpatch?
deedbot: fromloper voiced for 30 minutes.
trinque: then we are closer than it appeared in the long thread. I proposed being able to name arbitrary required antecedents in a vpatch's header, and this appears equivalent in effect to copying the file in whole.
fromloper: it's more complete than the previously published documents on the Ivory
fromloper: there were older versions of three chapters from this documents on Bitsavers, but not the whole thing
apeloyee: point is, the situation when you can replace one of the patches with figurative "format c:" and 'v' will be none the wiser as long as the file is not touched by later patches is insane
fromloper: did you succeed in scanning the chip at Zeptobars?
apeloyee: when you sign a tarball, the signature is not transferrable to anything else
fromloper: I see, hopefully phf will have more luck with Zeptobars
apeloyee: "may be a 50kg sword" << doesn't seem to be. can be retrofitted into an existing design. as i said above "there needs to be a tree hash in the _leaf_ patch. and it MUST match the resulting tree"
fromloper: asciilifeform: if I remember, you wanted to hook this intact chip to some emulation of Ivory's life support
fromloper: VLM is not very informative for this purpose, unfortunately
apeloyee: I proposed being able to name arbitrary required antecedents << also probably needs a mechanism to declare "there are no other files in the tree"
☟︎ apeloyee: a hash of the entire tree doesn't take much
fromloper: at the very least, the description of the instruction set is much more complete, all the opcodes are listed and no blanks at all
fromloper: there is a whole section on the virtual memory
fromloper: though it's still an early version of the architecture, revision 0 if I understand correctly
fromloper: which was designed for VLM exclusively
fromloper: asciilifeform: very good, I'm glad I brought it to your attention
a111: Logged on 2018-01-17 20:24 fromloper: asciilifeform: I have noticed that some of the former Symbolics employees are fairly active on Twitter, like
https://twitter.com/swmckay (one of the developers of VLM) and
https://twitter.com/KalmanReti , do you think it is possible to pry any information out of them?
trinque: pretty common to end up LARPing in retirement, even if one lived as a man, unfortunately
fromloper: yeah, somehow a lot of potentially interesting people on social media end up mostly posting this kind of crap
☟︎ deedbot: fromloper voiced for 30 minutes.
fromloper: this document refers to Dave Moon's files several times; I've tried to find any public presence of Moon on the net, maybe a mail address - found nothing
fromloper: Moon had an interview with Azul Systems' people in 2008
fromloper: so there is at least one possible address, gotta try it
☟︎ fromloper: Tom Knight is working with biologists
fromloper: afaik Symbolics was changing CEOs like gloves
fromloper: I also wanted to ask, did you figure out how to launch NS in VLM? I'm getting some Xlib error when I try to
fromloper: I wonder if it's going to ask for a license key like Macsyma on the same disk does
fromloper: is VLM's life support built out of that proggy?
a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 14:43 phf: i spent (mostly another whisperer and myself did) on getting vlm stable, and i'm unconvinced that some of the issues we encountered were purely "buggy vlm". there is, for example, a crash in floating point instruction that happens when you load document examiner on stock piratebay opengenera. i have no explanation for it still, because vlm code ~seems to do the right thing~. there are other similar instances
deedbot: fromloper voiced for 30 minutes.
fromloper: I've read the whisperers discussion here, seems to be plausible
fromloper: I'm curious what John C. Mallery intends to do with his property, other than collect support cheques
fromloper: Kalman Reti said 4 years ago: "The problem is that the Symbolics IP is now owned by John Mallery; he has stated he has plans for making it available but so far (several years) has not yet done so."
diana_coman: !!rate Covale` 1 euloran noob; found at least some of his way around
diana_coman: !!v 7AC227FA1D46917538127FAB0D4C5C45FF8064838BE08A92A589F00E4374C08F
deedbot: diana_coman rated Covale` 1 << euloran noob; found at least some of his way around
fromloper: asciilifeform: maybe he'll give up if something happens to DKS and Kalman Reti so he'll be out of people capable to do the job, both of them are rather old
trinque: if so, how did folks this corrupt build anything worth having?
☟︎ deedbot: fromloper voiced for 30 minutes.
fromloper: Mallery didn't do much for Symbolics before he bought it, outside of supplying it with CL-HTTP
a111: Logged on 2014-03-21 04:58 mircea_popescu: understand that the most economic way to run the economy - now as during 1614 - is to just turn off all machinery, lock all warehouses and bury the key
a111: Logged on 2018-01-13 21:52 mod6: Lords and Ladies of The Most Serene Republic, I have created a blog post outlining the behavior changes in 99993. Please take a look and consider these changes. Let me know if you have any comments or questions! Thanks in advance.
http://www.mod6.net/2018/99993/99993-changes.html fromloper: he is talking at "cyber security" conferences
mod6: diana_coman: you mean the patch for 99993? yeah, i pasted it in here.... lemme look for it quick.
fromloper: asciilifeform: alright, I'll do it
diana_coman: uh oh, it seems asciilifeform's v misbehaves too: when pressing a leaf that has genesis as antecedent it presses ALSO all other descendants of genesis from what I can tell
diana_coman: ah, I missed that then, I thought yours was grabbing leaf by leaf too
diana_coman: k, I'll try that as soon as mod6 finds the patch
mod6: how do i search the logs for all the lines that I have said?
mod6: ooooh, i was doing "from: mod6" and getting very strange results.
mod6: np. use that to patch 99994.
fromloper: I'm going to join as amberglint now
deedbot: amberglint voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: A7E708351AF14BB5C8B48DA323264C245A4563B8 registered as amberglint.
diana_coman: apparently patch worked, v reports now new version
trinque: !!v A52E78CBF699C414F662B5E4849A1D843B5BB7B0FF282D1AD0622FEC36560AF5
deedbot: trinque rated amberglint 1 << new blood
trinque: amberglint: try to self-voice in pm with deedbot now
deedbot: asciilifeform rated amberglint 1 << bolixologist
shinohai wonders if he should rate ben_vulpes as "bollocksologist" due to his recent trap encounters .....
amberglint: asciilifeform: I can't remember how I found your www, I'm reading it since 2012 or so; I found trilema.com from one of your articles
amberglint: I'm a software engineer, live in Russia
amberglint: I was reading the logs for a while, thought about joining you earlier but felt a bit intimidated to be honest
amberglint: btcbase.org is the logotron of my choice
amberglint: haven't had any issues with it, it's very handy
☟︎ amberglint: yeah, I caught almost everyone ru-speaking in the logs though I didn't know about apeloyee
a111: 2017-09-13 <apeloyee> would O(N^2) modular multiplication be too slow?
amberglint: asciilifeform: have you read "Digital Design and Computer Architecture" by D. and S. Harris? I'm using it (in ru print translation) as my hardware handbook and I'm curious if you have any opinion on it
amberglint: asciilifeform: I have a pdf somewhere, a quick look didn't notice anything Ivory-specific
a111: Logged on 2017-05-16 22:10 asciilifeform: unrelatedly, 'finite precision number systems and arithmetic' (kornerup & matula, cambridge press) is mega-b00k, the only one i've found on subj that is NOT a mere plagiarism of knuth, has useful algos for e.g. carry-free ops, hardwarizations
a111: Logged on 2018-01-04 20:06 asciilifeform: in other 'news', it is apparently impossible to fit even ONE 4096-bit adder into an ice40-8k ( the largest in the series )
amberglint: no one else seems to know or care about it, judging by google's output