mircea_popescu: was later an anchor to try and give blogging a bad name, decade later phenomenon.
sina: y'all don't have nothin'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aren;t you proud ? but well done, there's nothing more fulfilling than for man to achieve goal he sets for himself.
sina: literally told me you don't believe in time!
sina: mircea_popescu: you wanna play with this gossipthing yet?! otherwise I'
sina: 'ma tear down the shithost
mircea_popescu: sina honestly i kinda got the tech stuff i wanted to see already, but let's do one so it actually works and there's a "first line exchanged through prototype".
sina: yeah cool that's pretty much what I thought after yoru comments re sqlite/rsa being the main things needing changifying
mircea_popescu: sina ok so, paste the commands again if you will ? i'm logged.
sina: mircea_popescu: ssh root@45.77.66.53 in two windows, one 'gossipd'. other 'gossipc --send-message --source whoever --message whatever' and then 'gossipc -g' to view msgs
mircea_popescu: 2017-07-08 00:06:57|delivered_by:self|sender:urmom|ugachuga
mircea_popescu: 2017-07-08 00:06:58|delivered_by:sina|sender:sinatron|hello worl
phf: now we also are cypherpunks!
sina: as you can see in the gossipc stdout, it's all RSA, stateless whatever style
sina: anyway, if youre happy with that generally as a "first draft" I am keen to refine incrementally
mircea_popescu: i would say i'm quite happy, actually. as far as the user end is concerned this could work just fine.
sina: but again, disclaimer, am not doing this to infiltrate tmsr with shitlang, as asciilifeform seems concerned, just for my own fun!
mircea_popescu: cutting the "irc client" out of the loop altogether, which is a definite plus.
sina: if you like it too, that makes me happy
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, the back end needs work. the frontend tho, actually passes.
sina: asciilifeform: it is designed to easily rip/replace the RSA and other componenty bits easily
sina: and once all components are happy, can be rewrote in a not shitlang
mircea_popescu: so you don't have a proper irc client then. see ? i said irc CLIENT. protocol can stay, i see no prob there
sina: asciilifeform: I do like that idea
sina: in the gossipthing I made, the transport layer is tied to the encryption layer
sina: although it could be decoupled somewhat
sina: in irctron, you can login to a remote node and keep your privkey operations local
sina: as it currently sits with deedbot, I currently don't, but can, run my irc connection on compartmented box away from gpg
phf: i suspect the thinking is that you'll be running a local instance of gossipd, to which you connect over irc, so its main interface is some subset of irc (kind of how bouncers or bitlbee do it)
sina: ok, thanks for validating mircea_popescu, tearing down the shithost
sina: yes and it's understood, I'm not trying to make "gossipd for alfs dystopian future" just have some fun for me
☟︎ sina: btw asciilifeform thanks for checking out guix, I thought you might be interested after reading old logs of you complaining re ripping dbus out of emacs
sina: yeah but I am not making this software and saying you sould use it for serious, or even any, thing
sina: saw spec on trilema, seemed interesting, why not
sina: most "something elses" don't meet my "seemed interesting" criteria
sina: asciilifeform: feel free to check out my github :P
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform here's the fact of the matter : if you had the drop-in rsa ready, he'd drop it in right now.
mircea_popescu: sina go make a drop-in flatfile db replacement, so people can drop it in right now. there's a market, such as people who aren't happy mp-wp pulls in mysql.
mircea_popescu: and by now you're far far beyond "doing things for fun an' to learn" toylulz.
phf: sina: i actually checked, and fwiw guix doesn't let you build emacs without dbus dependency. (in fact none of the odds and ends like svg, xml or alsa can be disabled without patching the package definition file)
mircea_popescu: do we have a plain and rather complete statement, specific to dbus in teh logs ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dunno why you read a language in his scribblings, it really is just pseudocode.
phf: in fact only two ports systems i know that will do it out of the box is gentoo's one and homebrew
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i was looking more for a redo of phf 's very fine "xorg" speech.
sina: mircea_popescu: re pseudocode is exactly how I view it
sina: bang it out, see if it sucks or not
sina: I don't want to carve the stone first time
sina: anyhooz, gentlemanz, off for some dumplings
mircea_popescu: if the dood bangs out tmsr-db within the next coupla weeks, which fwis isn't exactly inconceivable, is anyone interesrted in making mp-wp switch from mysql/etc to it ?
mircea_popescu: sina write it in ada, that'll really put a bee in his bonnet.
sina: trolling asciilifeform best done in lang like javascript
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform trolls don't care about how you feel, alfie. just how you sound.
mircea_popescu: trolling is always a 3rd party oriented performing art. you know, like porn.
mircea_popescu: "oh, but a db for each program will be unmaintainable" "good luck maintaining the feature lists of shared item then" etc
mircea_popescu: "i don;t understant the mechanisms YET, give me a worktable. with clearly known knobsw on it."
mircea_popescu: you don't ship fg with it, and so don't ship other things with it either.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you actually want to get it i'll formalize ?
mircea_popescu: a breadboard is, for electronic circuitry, exactly what a general purpose db is for programming.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: it allows you support to set out all your shit and connect it as you want, and measure and decide how to package it.
mircea_popescu: could be done in your hand, or else in your pants pocket while riding the subway. it'd be harder is all.
mircea_popescu: it is sometimes practiced, and sometimes accepted, to ship circuits back and forth straight on their breadboard. this is entirely up to the people involved and not proper subject of legislation.
mircea_popescu: no argument there. but also -- an aesthetical discussion of breadboards will never result in their banishment from the workshop wtf.
mircea_popescu also, as young tyke, thought "wtf breadboard, useless shit takes more time to set up than it's worth new". then touched 120V a coupla times and grew wiser.
mircea_popescu: optimizing compiler also inconceivable waste, mel didn't like its data positioning.
phf: asciilifeform: the story of mel?
mircea_popescu: i suppose it's actually my bad, they called it optimizing assembler back then for some reason.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-21 17:05 asciilifeform: doing FIVE ( yes, it's five ) machine muls, in there, and 5 machine adds ( instead of motherfucking ZERO ) JUST TO GET THE UPPER WORD of word*word mul, is not.
mircea_popescu: back in msdos days it was int21 and etc for ... video iron's full capacity.
mircea_popescu: guy is kinda predictable, his previous codebase was a cartoon-colored illustration of the impossibility of autodidacticism
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the only mental model of computer per se would be "girlfriend".
mircea_popescu: ask around. decide(); and void think void etc, the writing's on the wall.
mircea_popescu: it is this thing which talks back to you. === girlfriend, are you kidding me ?
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> 2017-07-08 00:06:57|delivered_by:self|sender:urmom|ugachuga << lel @ this message, and it seems to work!
mircea_popescu: the amusing part not yet picked up (i was expecting alf to jump) is that... it has inband encoding. "self" is a special word!
☟︎ phf: pretty sure asciilifeform is actively ignoring the whole initiative, with only periodic pounces. as opposed to his older strategy of annihilating the whole thing upfront. must be getting old
☟︎ phf: i think that it's mostly your works. his patterns are better known, there's been damping, etc.
mircea_popescu: are you saying he switched from trying to annihilate it to being unhappy with it because it has managed to gather some apparent support with me ?
phf: no, it's more like alfs rhetoric approach at some point was encouraged, where's now it seems to be recognized, and often treated with "oh it's just alf doing his thing".
☟︎ phf: or perhaps now that he has successfully served as the main driving force behind the tenets of tmsr technology and ensured that they are collectively accepted, he doesn't need to reaffirm them as much. but i also have wonder if the tenets have as much of a galvanizing effect now that we mostly had a chance to observe both their positive and negative effects?
mod6: in this case, even the sina has said so himself, is a simple prototype. i find prototypes to be typically worth making. often there is something to be learned from them.
mod6: with btc, even if "prototype" was imho worth using in the battlefield. "you go to war with the army you have..." doesn't mean either that it can't be made better or replaced later.
mircea_popescu: phf for my curiosiuty, list tenets and positive/negative effects ?
phf: that's a tricky request, but the tenets are around shitlangs differentiation, "fits in head", v as a way of releasing code, what it means to own a piece of technology. there's a handful of threads that had definitive conclusions, that i consider tenets (i think the word should be in quotes to indicate that while not true tenets, violating them will require reopening large threads)
mircea_popescu: yeah, whole line sounds a lot like baiting, but not at all my intention.
mircea_popescu: just, work happens when prodded, and systematization is work like any other work.
phf: ah, so it's a subtle "what tenets would that be? handy if you made a LIST of them here, eh!"
☟︎ mircea_popescu: certainly above qs could have been asked just as well by a noob, and vague "large threads" reference dun help him any.
☟︎ phf: right, which is an existing problem
mircea_popescu: and in other news, the logs stay about the same 500 lines they always are, but holy shit it seems somehow they get denser or what the fuck, it's unseemly.
mircea_popescu: feels like headlifting three times the weight these days
mod6: i think it's highly interesting, but indeed, there's a lot of depth. sometimes takes a while to grok the threads. that's my own personal take. getting old, not for me anyway.
mircea_popescu: mod6 i used to enjoy the luxury of multipass reads through the log. but it's under threat these days
☟︎ sina: I return, temporarily
a111: Logged on 2017-07-05 15:39 phf: sina: is that ^ a correct method?
sina: did you make a lispy one go faster?
☟︎ sina:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-08#1680437 << why I used a db: because the spec said use flatfile, I first tried to implement flatfile one and after realising I would need to either shell out to utilities like "touch" and/or "find"/"ls" etc, or implement some of their functionality myself, I decided to import a library that does that stuff not terribly, called sqlite
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2017-07-08 00:38 asciilifeform: ( it adds a screamingly unwarranted runtime and nonfitsinhead complexity to just about any proggy )
sina: otherwise, how update functionality like "last seen", or "fetch X messages since last seen"
sina: and now if I want to do it in flatfile, gossipd code becomes gossipd + "sinas shitty db-less attempt"
mircea_popescu: i don't know it has to be shitty, unless there's some other constraint, like "make it overnight"
sina: imagine flatfile example of "assigning" generated key from "available" => "user" state, or "user" => "bogus" state, that's moving a keyfile from gossipd/keys/available to gossipd/keys/users/foo or similar action, now my program has to either invoke "mv" or write mv-like functionality into my app
mod6: mircea_popescu: re, logs, inline-pr0n helps too :D
mircea_popescu: sina i don't get it ? make file with keys, make file with assignments. why mv ?
sina: ok true, I didn't think of that
sina: mircea_popescu: but still even in that case I need to "walk" the list of assignments, looking for ^available, so I need to use grep or write a iterating-finder-thingo myself and then something like sed to change the line or write a text-changer-at-a-line myself
mircea_popescu: sina or just you know, look into how to do btree and have a hash something ?
mircea_popescu: sina you can implement your whatever as a binary tree, leverage the directory structure, and simply check if there's a file / write it.
mircea_popescu: this locks into an older discvussion re bitcoin fs, which was iirc still stalled at perf-ing the various available fs thoroughly for massive directory/file usage.
☟︎ sina: how does that related at all to the "make file with keys"
sina: although I don't get that either now that I think about it, how does the "assignments" file know which key is which?
mod6: mircea_popescu: daang.
sina: assignments file format = ??
sina: mircea_popescu: I guess the gist of the question is really, how is implementing my own btree different at all to using the pretty much identical thing in sqlite
mod6: i gotta look at this code again here
mircea_popescu: well, for you in that you get to say you did it (ie, have the experience), and for alf that he's not stuck importing ALL THE REST of sqlite.
sina: and you contend the actual final implementation of such a thing will actually be less lines of a code than the existing thing
☟︎ mircea_popescu: sina simple example and i don't pretend like this is useful : /assignments/0f0a.txt contains or does not contain "hurrdurr". by checking if it does you know hurrdurr is assigned to 0f0a.
mircea_popescu: sina does sqlite have unicode support ? if it does, then it will necessarily be less lines of code.
sina: I mean, all data is unicode AFAIK
sina: ok going out again, will consider some more, but I do wonder
mod6: sina: sure, think on it for a bit. no rush.
mod6: looks like was taken on a proper ny roof
mod6: im ~starting~ to get the hang of this ada stuff.
mod6: as a way to teach it to myself, i've been poking around with a v impl.
mod6: not sure it'll ever see the light of day tho.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> sina: trolling asciilifeform is actually pretty hard << Then why are the neighborhood's small mammals so successful with their verminating?
a111: Logged on 2017-07-08 01:13 phf: pretty sure asciilifeform is actively ignoring the whole initiative, with only periodic pounces. as opposed to his older strategy of annihilating the whole thing upfront. must be getting old
ben_vulpes: > do not use * to mark line suppression
a111: Logged on 2017-07-08 01:24 phf: no, it's more like alfs rhetoric approach at some point was encouraged, where's now it seems to be recognized, and often treated with "oh it's just alf doing his thing".
ben_vulpes: am i to take from this line in the od manpage that it doesn't actually output faithfully without extra flags?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform check it out, you're famous nao, being discussed in absentia.
BingoBoingo: Well, alf did recommend that film to rest of republic
a111: Logged on 2017-07-08 02:00 phf: ah, so it's a subtle "what tenets would that be? handy if you made a LIST of them here, eh!"
a111: Logged on 2017-07-08 02:01 mircea_popescu: certainly above qs could have been asked just as well by a noob, and vague "large threads" reference dun help him any.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-08 02:07 mircea_popescu: mod6 i used to enjoy the luxury of multipass reads through the log. but it's under threat these days
mod6: yeah, i try never to get more than 1 day behind. and sometimes, i take long walks through the l0gs on various threads.
mod6: ah, yeah, the "long walk"
deedbot: ave1 voiced for 30 minutes.
mod6: oh yeah, those are the hardest to track down. i find myself having to search for very specific words and hope i find it.
mod6: sometimes its a tmsr-ism like 'printolade'
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: yeah, found the flag at about the same time i discovered the idiocy
ben_vulpes: "flag for disabling wtf, would you like?"
ben_vulpes: basically unsafe to use unix tools without reading manpages exhaustively, and probably source to boot
mod6: and as far as pete_dushenski or whomevers quest to write a log digest or whatever, it never happened. the foundation briefly considered a role for gathering up trb related parts, but that was set aside in exchange for tb0t
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: talmud likely five hundred years to early of a comparison
ben_vulpes: relatedly, i started rereading the old testament on "kindle" this year, have been missing proper talmud for whole sojurn
ben_vulpes: i did discover epub-scale sheikh pdfs recently
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, the history of roman empire was attempted 500x, why should one fellow stop the rest.
ben_vulpes: a reasonable daring, my patience for aramaic went the way of my patience for kanji etc
mircea_popescu: mod6 problem with the very specific words is that often enough conversations are carried in wholly metaphorical terms.
ben_vulpes: i have other exciting glyph monstrosities occupying my stack these days like unicode
mircea_popescu: such as, we';re discussing cunts, but oohohohohobviously not rly.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-08 02:31 mircea_popescu: this locks into an older discvussion re bitcoin fs, which was iirc still stalled at perf-ing the various available fs thoroughly for massive directory/file usage.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-08 17:13 Framedragger: do you recall when you described the storage of nqb?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i still didn't get what i'd call good numbers / a good measurement.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-15 23:46 asciilifeform: in unrelated noose, 'nqb' reads & parses a full 1MB block, with 2218 tx, and recreates it from fast-form, again to disk, in 0.123 sec. on a 3GHz opteron cum ssd.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-20 17:00 asciilifeform:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629256 << even reiser is almost certainly waste of time, general-purpose fs is very sharply the opposite of what we want, they are all optimized for mutability (can delete/rename/resize/etc) and fast reads at the expense of slow entity creation, as well as carrying out silent rebalances/defrags/etc.
mircea_popescu: there's nothing wrong with measuring the world around. an attempt to explain why this is a waste of time isn't really going to be entertained.
mircea_popescu: it is fundamentally, and irrecoverably, flawed. measurements are the only basis of thought.
mircea_popescu: there's no "best use of measurement" for exact same reason there's no "wot best practices", or "ideal rng values"
mircea_popescu: geting hard numbers on file system performance, something everyone involved in data storage for the past 30 years has been vehehehery deliberately hiding, is certainly better use of time than, for instance, attempting to reason with djb jzw & all.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-19 17:22 asciilifeform: in other news, a 4096-bit A**B takes approx 14 seconds (3GHz) .
a111: Logged on 2017-07-08 02:35 sina: and you contend the actual final implementation of such a thing will actually be less lines of a code than the existing thing
a111: Logged on 2017-07-08 01:11 mircea_popescu: the amusing part not yet picked up (i was expecting alf to jump) is that... it has inband encoding. "self" is a special word!
sina: mircea_popescu: "self" just signifies the message was published into the local messages list by the local client itself. suggestions are open for other ways to signify same, e.g. if you think the entry should simply be blank
mircea_popescu: prolly limit names to alphanum and then use eg "*self" or somesuch is the approach.
sina: fair. names are limited currently to [a-zA-Z0-9_]+
sina: looks like this now: 2017-07-08 05:54:50|delivered_by:*local|sender:sina|hello world
sina: alright, now back to my /tmp dir to try and prototype a fs based thing
sina: quite happy with it
sina: not right this second, hold pls
sina: for now it's set to clean up anything older than a week every week
sina: mircea_popescu: do you have 5-10m to discuss the filesystem thing re gossipthing
sina: cool, appreciated. so I currently have 3 tables: keys, peers, messages. let's start with keys I guess.
sina: so there are 3 "states" for a key, 1. available, 2. bogus, 3. assigned
sina: for the assigned keys, it seems fine to have a directory like key/name_of_peer_assigned.key
sina: with the privkey as the contents of the file
sina: but what about bogus and available keys? keys/available/???.key and keys/bogus/???.key, so the two questions would be, 1. what are they named, 2. how to transition states, e.g. from available to assigned
sina: if its a matter of moving a key from keys/available/???.key => keys/assigned/name_of_peer_assigned.key ...or symlinking as you mention
mircea_popescu: /key/0fae.key ; /key/assigned/symlink-0fae.key /key/bogus/symlink etc
sina: then I either need to shell out to mv/ln
mircea_popescu: now, whether this works irl or noit, we do not really know
sina: or implement a chunk of mv/ln in my code
mircea_popescu: alternatively (and what everyone does) is make pagefiles and read those. though...
mircea_popescu: sina you can just create/edit the symlinks like any other files.
sina: I dunno about this suggestion. for example if I want to assign an available key, I need to list the keys in /keys, then subtract from that list the list of keys in /keys/assigned and /keys/bogus ?
mircea_popescu: well, if you wish to assign a SPECIFIC key, then you must edit the /keys/assigned/key.symlink reference to point to it.
sina: no, I want to assign any available key
mircea_popescu: if you wish to find out what key you can assign, you gotta enumerate the db, though ideally you keep this in ram rather than in the db
sina: what you said "wish to find out what key you can assign" is what I meant
mircea_popescu: sina to find out which keys aren't assigned you also keep a /keys/available then
sina: but this introduces potential race condition now?
sina: two assignment attempts might list the same available key
sina: sqlite transaction for example protect against this
mircea_popescu: depending on how the whole scheme is implemented, yes.
mircea_popescu: sina they do not protect against this by design, but by implementation.
sina: agreed and understood, I am just subtly trying to make the point of "making me implement a shittier sqlite"
mircea_popescu: i am not making you! and if it dun seem like something you wanna do best not to do.
mircea_popescu: it's not directly obvious why it'd be shittier though. if nothing else, can just cannibalize sqlite code, iuf you think it's that great.
mircea_popescu: in which process you will have for the first time read and tried to understand it, and likely discovered some things re greatness.
sina: I just doubt I can impl, e.g. transactions as well as sqlite guy
mircea_popescu: this is fine, as a general notion, but what is it based on ?
sina: lack of subject matter expertise
mircea_popescu: right. well, do you wish to acquire some ? ~what the whole discussion reduces to.
sina: one interesting thing is that I thought there would be some databases implemented as flat files, but I can't seem to find any
sina: because I definitely remember in the past thinking thoughts along the lines of "filesystem is a ~btree, rdbms is a ~btree, why am I ~btree on top of ~btree", and reading discussions about this topic on the internet, and feel like I remember *someone* mentioning something about this
sina: I dunno much about lisp, but I think lisp handles this better in the sense you write state into the "lisp machine" and can flush that entire state out to disk and read it therefrom as well?
☟︎ sina: so in lispland you get this kind of native ability to easily export/import primitive datastructures to disk easily
sina: mircea_popescu: I am guessing tmsr is not fond of things like JSON or YAML
☟︎ sina: mircea_popescu: still around?
sina: question: do bogus keys actually need to be stored?
mircea_popescu: well yes, the program needn't be able to distinguish them from keys generally. bogus is an operator designation.
sina: oh. I might use them for bogus data sendage though or something
sina: so I guess I do need to store them
sina: damn. that would've made my life easier :P
sina: elaborate re machine capture?
mircea_popescu: well suppose enemy finds a gossiptron. why should he be able to tell which keys were bogus ?
sina: in the model you proposed he would be able to anyway right, just by seeing which symlinks are in keys/bogus
sina: if you're an enemy capable of capturing a gossiptron and knowing of the things, why wouldn't you?
mircea_popescu: because absence of key is dispositive, whereas scribblings on the key is at best indicative.
sina: fair. In any case I think I must retain for the purpose of "chaff" feature
sina: which is currently not implemented anyway
sina: wasn't as bad as I thought it'd be
☟︎ sina: still needs a tad work to make the code a bit easier to read and finish model.delete_peer()
sina: didn't end up using symlinks
sina: rather each privkey has an additional top-of-file line which states either "-available", "-bogus" or the peer name
a111: Logged on 2017-07-08 10:54 sina: wasn't as bad as I thought it'd be
sina: fair. possible rejiggings on that tomorrow
mircea_popescu: "looks like a python that's trying to swallow a buncha smaller snakes"
BingoBoingo: “You wanna know what’s more important than throwin away money at a strip club? Credit/ You ever wonder why Jewish people own all the property in America? This how they did it.” << Line by noted White Supremacist Jay-Z
mircea_popescu: wait, he's trying to turn the horde of aging "trynna make it as a pimp" blacks into good consumers with credit cards ?
BingoBoingo: AHA, he is being called out for "feed[ing] into preconceived notions about Jews and alleged Jewish ‘control’ of the banks and finance." << Jews at Anti Defamation league
mircea_popescu: good thing jayz is so very "controversial", i think ima go buy his album
a111: Logged on 2017-06-13 15:17 mircea_popescu: and this model ENTIRELY explains all of the "luminaries". werner koch worked the feeder-chumper cycle. stallman worked the feeder-chumper cycle. curtis yarvin worked the etcetera.
mircea_popescu: "the strong take from the weak, and the smart take from the strong. the weak'd better have great cocksucking skills to close teh cycle."
BingoBoingo: Really gotta give the urban youth directions on finding and identifying Jewish neighborhoods
mircea_popescu: tru dat, rachel's been slipping herself roofies in desperation.
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2518.59, vol: 6546.82530631 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2494.9, vol: 3183.64189 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2501.9, vol: 13104.35099044 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2573.9818, vol: 5560.59180000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2519.233, vol: 5587.7122669 | Volume-weighted last average: 2519.10413738
mircea_popescu: "i don't know, baby... we'll have to ask your father..."
mod6: <+shinohai> Constipated? We can fix that! << lol
mircea_popescu: ftr, it dun fix it, colon takes the day off after you fuck it.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> "i don't know, baby... we'll have to ask your father..." << lol. cuckdad may want in too!
a111: Logged on 2017-07-08 00:44 mircea_popescu: a breadboard is, for electronic circuitry, exactly what a general purpose db is for programming.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-08 07:21 sina: I dunno much about lisp, but I think lisp handles this better in the sense you write state into the "lisp machine" and can flush that entire state out to disk and read it therefrom as well?
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:26 asciilifeform: re lisp state -- not sure this is doable on unix -- how do you dump and restore textual representation of posix threads ? fd's ?
trinque: and mentioning lisp, CLOS is by my lights, the best taxonomy building tool that exists.
trinque: what it lacks (at least as part of the CLOS standard, afaik) is a standard for how one CLOS program shares objects and methods with another, whether on same box or across the network.
☟︎ trinque: I'd say folks yes, use sqlite because they did not reason the program out completely before beginning to write code, but they often use postgresql as a messaging platform, RPC, or what have you
trinque: anyhow, curious what the lisp graybeards have to say about CLOS over the wire
☟︎ mircea_popescu: there's standard cunt operation without standard cunt width.