log
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phf: mircea_popescu: i've been searching from:<nick> "http://" as a way to remind myself who is who
ckang: trinque: btw, is there a correct and incorrect way to make an address?
douchebag: just got back from college
douchebag: yeah ill tell them
lobbes: speed of implementation really (I got other tmsr irons in fire). I figured I could get a tickerbot up and running quicker just using a gribble instance >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-10#1795728☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-10 20:50 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-10#1795655 << why aren;t you running the trinquebot ?
lobbes: buut, the lack of 'root' access and my general inexperience with non-debian linuxen is throwing me for a loop. Though, suprisingly to me, it is the former rather than the latter that is throwing me the farthest (I've kinda been enjoying building shit from source).
douchebag: mircea_popescu:
douchebag: Girls are wondering if they wanna show tits
douchebag: you around?
douchebag: trinque: I'm going to get a trb node setup when I get that server
douchebag: because right now if I put it on any of these machines, they wouldn't be running 24/7
douchebag: someones znc is being retarded
mircea_popescu waves
mircea_popescu: douchebag hit it.
ckang: will you be around for a bit mircea_popescu ?
mircea_popescu: yes.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile somewhere else, "I looked through your profile and I like what I've seen. What would serving you entail?"
mircea_popescu: 2018, the year i'ma be overwhelmed.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-10#1795909 << i know, i know. kinda expected. still... gotta say something to them, whether they follow or not the wise words of the elders is what distinguishes the talented from the mediocre in any generation, isn't it.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-10 23:52 ckang: trinque: i dont think many of these girls have a long term mindset as far as investing goes, mostly college students or do menial low paying work
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-10#1795912 <<->> http://trilema.com/2011/spargatorii-si-curva/ ; i should prolly translate that shouldn't i.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-10 23:53 trinque: man I dated a bartender slut once that kept cash gangster rolls under the bed
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-10#1795917 << actually, the college standard for middle-class kids throughout the 90s and maybe a short sliver of the 00s was kinda BingoBoingo 's experience : "they gave me all this money to leave parents' house, ima... drink it / smoke it". it came to an end, of course, nohope.jpg now, but it's what it was for a while there. i know n examples.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-10 23:57 ckang: theres also plenty of girls that just go to school to meet a husband, which hey, more power to you i suppose.
mircea_popescu: but otherwise, girls going to college to meet the sort of guy that goes to college is a time and space invariant. true in egypt today as it was true in romania 50 years ago as it was true in the us since inception.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1795919 << bitcoin addresses come in the form 1x, like say 1NwAjL6CwMHm5S9aeFfmop5VtqBA6aNJRT ; some dorks came up with an "extension". there are fundamental problems with their code, discussed in the logs, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-11#1697111 / http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-11#1697118☝︎☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 00:33 ckang: trinque: btw, is there a correct and incorrect way to make an address?
a111: Logged on 2017-08-11 17:49 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes and block depth. if you make segwit tx a to me at height 1 and i put it into a normal tx at block 2, i can spend it from block 3 as my bitcoin, the segwitnmess is gone out of it. to steal it from me, one has to rewind all the way to block 1 again. which is possible, but expensive as the chain builds.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-11 17:52 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the substantial weakness segwit adds to bitcoin chain security is that witout it, one needs the power to unwind the chain AND the keys of old txn to steal bitcoin. whereas with it, one only needs the hash power, as anyone can spend the segwit shit.
mircea_popescu: there's this pattern in usg attempts to subvert bitcoin, as discussed in that thread and generally in the logs ; it's "success" depends on the ignorance of the userbase, which is what separates very sharply the bitcoin "users" into republican and imperial sets. the latter have some dust and reddit.
ckang: i heard something the other day which may be of concern soon
ckang: but a CPA was sent a letter asking him to report any clients he had who dealt with crypto
mircea_popescu: this is ancient news.
ckang: yea he just got it last week
ckang: was it published anywhere yet?
ckang: if not i can see if he will scan it
mircea_popescu: illegal as all fuck, but then again http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-09#1794697 and all that.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-09 15:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there was also that hellvig lawsuit (which afaik went exactly the same place all other "rule of law" challenges to notes-from-stalin ever went)
mircea_popescu: usg has laws in the sense any bully has principles.
mircea_popescu: ckang have him scan it ; qntra will want to publish it, if you don't break down and make a proper blog before that.
mircea_popescu: (do make a blog. it's an immensely important anchor for your online identity and the power you build on it)
ckang: but to beat a bully you need to be on a more level field
mircea_popescu: not really.
ckang: well he said he would be down to do it but he wanted to make sure it went to other CPAs also
mircea_popescu: "god doesn't beat with the stick".
ckang: so it cant be traced back to his firm if that makes sense
ckang: ill ask him next time i see him though
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: pretty sure this is in full alignment with current paper usg.law -- recall, they stripped away immunities from shrinks, priests, wives, etc. why not also cpa.
mircea_popescu: ckang if he wants to come online i can explain to him how to publish it so it is not traceable in that way. see also http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-29#1704530☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-29 01:02 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo do we have the famous pdf unicorn-coconut or whatever took to the inept competition instead of bringing to qntra, resulting in a jail term for her ?
mircea_popescu: back when some imbecile went to fake news media rather than coming to qntra, got sent to jail for it, STILL did not admit there exists no media online besides qntra.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform certainly.
ckang: mircea_popescu: yea hes a sharp guy but i dont want to pressure him into anything uncomfortable, him mentioning it though was the first i heard of these letters being mass mailed
mircea_popescu: it's still on my fucking liver, that episode. so whistleblower goes to "media", they publish her fucking pdfs with the yellow dots untouched, she gets sent to jail, at which point the ENTIRE fucking faux establishment somehow still does not end. how thje fuck!
mircea_popescu: ckang sure.
ckang: im sure places like coinbase are going to be the the more important things they would worry about
ckang: who would tell their cpa about crypto holdings anyways lol
mircea_popescu: hey, i moved enough paper money into argentina to ruin its government a few years ago. they can worry until they fucking fall over for all the good it's gonna do them.
mircea_popescu: for all practical purposes money is now outside of the control of fiat pretend-sovereigns.
ckang: yea, curious how much loss of wealth will be reported this year sorta
mircea_popescu: reporting is not an imperial strength.
ckang: the folks that refinanced their houses at 19k
mircea_popescu: did they manage to get a budget yet ?
ckang: and decided to go all in
ckang: probably not super common but theres stories of it i see popping up here and there
mircea_popescu: ckang amusingly, selling us based real estate on the market and buying bitcoin at 20k is not actually a bad deal. even with bitcoin at 7k now.
mircea_popescu: consider a simple example : you get divorced. or arrested. or "suspected" of "crime". what's the real estate you "owned" worth now ?
mircea_popescu: because teh bitcoin ain't going anywhere, the "judge" can hold his breath until he's done dicking about.
ckang: yea thats true, you can literally take it to your grave
ckang: unlike anything else
mircea_popescu: the fantasy the empire is living is that "nobody can be poor enough to starve". the only meaning of which is, "nobody can have any incentive to hold anything besides bitcoin".
ckang: anything material has to be thrown out, sold, etc...
mircea_popescu: quite a lulzy implementation of the whole "do not build yourself perishable treasures" meme.
ckang: heh not familiar with that one
mircea_popescu: really ? it's the cornerstone of "protestant" ideology.
mircea_popescu: as in, the xtian sect.
ckang: im not well read in theology by any means
ckang: i just know that they are christian
mircea_popescu: so you never heard of "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal." and all that ?
mircea_popescu: it's a xtian thing, "gospel by matthew". here : https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+6%3A19-34&version=NIV
ckang: ive mostly just lived under the "cant take it to the grave or regret it when dead" idea
mircea_popescu: technically bitcoin you can't take to grave either, the passive result of dead keys is a slight increase in the value of circulating bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: but whether this properly means you have taken it or you haven't taken it is very much an open question of metaphysics, "what is the meaning of taking".
ckang: it would take too long to brute force it though
ckang: or could rather
ckang: has there been any studies done on that?
mircea_popescu: ckang the idea isn't you bruteforce it, the idea is that in between world A, where 100 people living have 1 btc each, and world A', where 99 people living and 1 person dead have 1 bitcoin each, is that the apparent value of the bitcoin will be 101% in A` vs A.
mircea_popescu: but no, you're not going to bruteforce a key.
ckang: hmm yea, true, didnt think about it from that angle
ckang: i mean with enough clockcycles anything can be brute forced
ckang: its just on what timescale
ckang: and cost:reward
mircea_popescu: ckang the timescale involved in bruteforcing a bitcoin address exceeds the computable capacity of an alternate universe in which every single atom extant would be part of an ideal processor working at it.
mircea_popescu: in other words : it will never happen, the world ends first.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1795922 << this is broken in the same way as the subjects of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-03#1792556 discussion.☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 01:20 lobbes: speed of implementation really (I got other tmsr irons in fire). I figured I could get a tickerbot up and running quicker just using a gribble instance >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-10#1795728
a111: Logged on 2018-04-03 18:39 mircea_popescu: lobbes the only important consideration here is that design is not a haphazard activity driven by occurence and circumstance. that's implementation. design is a deductive activity, it proceeds from first principles and does not break faith.
ckang: yea thats why i was just wondering if anyone has done a paper about it ;)
ckang: just thought it would be a fun read
mircea_popescu: ckang it's one of the things people do for their own satisfaction, but your question isn't without marrow. let's see here...
ckang: the scaling comparisons i like for some reason
ckang: like you can fit X somethings in a Y
ckang: that just show the magnitude of something
mircea_popescu: ckang here's the basic likbez : a bitcoin address (which is what keeps funds) is built out of a chaining of crypto functions : https://en.bitcoin.it/w/images/en/thumb/4/48/Address_map.jpg/700px-Address_map.jpg
ckang: oh wow, ive never seen it broken down like that
asciilifeform: 1 caveat re 'brute force needs machine the size of 10^bignum universes running for 10^biggernum yrs' is that it presumes a flat keyspace. whereas if instead you can exclude large chunks ( because, e.g., winblowz rng is known to never output'em , or some other likewise ) ...
ckang: i didnd even know base58 was a thing
ckang: didnt*
mircea_popescu: the proper formula is : address = ripemd160(sha256(secret)). to go from an address to its corresponding private key (which is what "bruteforce" requires in this context) you'd have to reverse a ripemd160 and a sha256 op.
ckang: sounds like a good research paper for some mathematics major ;)
ckang: thesis or something
mircea_popescu: admitting the merkle-damgard construction (what ripemd is built out of, see http://homes.esat.kuleuven.be/~bosselae/ripemd160.html ) does not have a backdoor, and that sha256 doesn't have a backdoor, you are looking at something like 256 bits of entropy involved.
mircea_popescu: there's also some ecdsa involved, but that's cryptographically less valuable.
mircea_popescu: but, for the expert minds tuned in : ckang 's question does not, as we currently stand, have a published canonical answer i can link him to. if you write it, i will link it next time someone asks.
mircea_popescu: ckang for an ad-hoc illustration : admitting that you own sunway taihulight (the chinese supercomputer discussed in http://trilema.com/2017/resplenduminous/ ), which does something like 9.3 * 10^16 flops ; and admitting you take 1 flop to generate a key (it's more like 150-200 irl, but w/e) and 0 time to check for its correctness, then you could expect a correct guess about once every 51948826585749897379957793229925273575140
mircea_popescu: 14 years of non-stop functioning.
mircea_popescu: this is roughly speaking 376440772360506502753317342245835 times the age of our present universe (the big bang having taken place 13.8 or so billion years ago).
ckang: hah, yea thats hard to comprehend
mircea_popescu: in any case -- it's currently cheaper to mine it.
ckang: sorta related, but what do you think about this.. https://www.wireguard.com/papers/wireguard-formal-verification.pdf
ckang: stateless VPN
mircea_popescu: (which goes back to a long held asciilifeform notion, of "mining is a bug" -- certainly, but looky here : mining is also the direct result of "i want a shunt for the bruteforce, so i can say to people, "x is cheaper therefore y won't happen")
mircea_popescu: ckang i don't read pdfs.
ckang: that can use any openssl algorithm, I believe..
ckang: https://www.wireguard.com/formal-verification/
ckang: the pdf goes a lot deeper but there some info on the site
mircea_popescu: !#s formal verification
a111: 12 results for "formal verification", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=formal%20verification
ckang: https://www.wireguard.com/protocol/
ckang: ah this, is what i was looking for
mircea_popescu: the fundamental problem with formal verification is that it's not currently implemented seriously (which is to say -- completely, on small codebases). it's just machines poking at things generally, in an untenable theoretical model.
mircea_popescu: consequently, as a broad field, it doesn't hold much interest here.
ckang: its pretty interesting though if you need such a thing
ckang: 4000 LOC (not including openssl)
mircea_popescu: i'ma have to get back to you on this.
ckang: sure was just curious since it was crypto related and you guys seem to know your stuff there
mircea_popescu: o look, there's even a #wireguard
ckang: ive been using it for some time and its been super solid, i just didnt know how strong it was from the cryptography side of things
mircea_popescu: i dun know anyone uses it as it is.
ckang: ive pushed 2TB though a tunnel before i rebooted the router for updates
ckang: through*
mircea_popescu: the claim is "The following protocols and primitives are used: ChaCha20 for symmetric encryption, authenticated with Poly1305, using RFC7539's AEAD construction; Curve25519 for ECDH; BLAKE2s for hashing and keyed hashing, described in RFC7693; SipHash24 for hashtable keys; HKDF for key derivation, as described in RFC5869"
ckang: that stuff to a layman like myself goes right over my head ;)
ckang: https://www.wireguard.com/performance/
mircea_popescu: ckang you can read up on all the crypto functions, be they trapdoors or whatever, if you are interested. it's not illegible arcana.
ckang: this is what got me interested, can push a ton more data and with less latency on the same hardware vs. openvpn
ckang: by quite a bit
ckang: theres mesh capability but ive not delved into that much yet
mircea_popescu: "<mircea_popescu> (on #wireguard) zx2c4 (the owner, j. donenfeld) : if you're willing to set two hours apart on any day of your choosing to answer wireguard questions on #trilema, i'm willing to donate 1 btc to your project. let me know, i'm usually on freenode (this nick). thanks & gl." << asciilifeform spyked whoever else might care.
ckang: yea, thats awesome, hopefully he takes you up on that
mircea_popescu: ckang you know the ancient story of how openbsd got saved from death ? it was eerily similar.
ckang: the project has a lot of potential, its just not well known so providers arent selling it to the general masses
mircea_popescu: i guess. on a superficial look it's certainly better than whatever tls bs.
ckang: mullvad does offer it and its pretty good through them, I lose about 2Mbit off my top end and and only gain 2ms when pinging 'google.com' (hard to do this test since geography and routing)
mircea_popescu: ckang feel free to idle there, smooth things over if need be.
ckang: sure thing yea, didn't think to check if they had a channel before
mircea_popescu has finished eating logs. muahaha.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796043 << i read. it's a hannoboeckization of gossipd.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 04:06 ckang: https://www.wireguard.com/formal-verification/
asciilifeform: with generous helpings of c pointerolade, opensslism, mathemadturbatorily- squigglymarked pdfolade, tall claims of 'formal verification', etc
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796064 << naturally fast -- uses post-betrayal bernsteinian cryptosnakeoil, instead of old-fashioned nsa-inhouse snakeoil☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 04:12 ckang: this is what got me interested, can push a ton more data and with less latency on the same hardware vs. openvpn
asciilifeform: ( e.g. chacha )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796063 << the most important documents are ~not there~ for him to read : i.e. the wholly-absent proofs of strength for any of the symmetric poppycock☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 04:11 mircea_popescu: ckang you can read up on all the crypto functions, be they trapdoors or whatever, if you are interested. it's not illegible arcana.
ckang: can you summarize that down to: 'it sucks' 'indifferent' 'has a future' ;)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i know, but prepare a list of q's for when/if the guy shows up.
mircea_popescu: and do me a favour -- not in this lambasting tone!
ckang: im not sure how to interpret what you are saying without knowing your opinions on those topics
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796071 << it is 'better' in same sense as ethereum 'better than' paypal.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 04:19 mircea_popescu: i guess. on a superficial look it's certainly better than whatever tls bs.
mircea_popescu: ckang too soon for you to interpret anything
mircea_popescu: there's a process we go through here, first the engineers throw a fit, then i pick up the pieces.
ckang: it is 'better' in same sense as ethereum 'better than' paypal <- so its slightly better than the worst? ;)
mircea_popescu: "unprincipledly better" is the argument.
ckang: im hoping he finds the resources to get an iOS client done
asciilifeform: ckang: disinformation is not always a set of empty words; often can be a working mechanism, with moving parts, superficially correct
ckang: for mobile applications this stuff makes a lot more sense
mircea_popescu: why for mobile specifically ?
ckang: battery life and data wise
asciilifeform: aimed to displace and erase an actual honest item
mircea_popescu: ah, uses less amps per bit ? i guess.
ckang: you dont need a continuous connection
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you mean gossipd ? how can it possibly displace something that doesn't even exist!
asciilifeform: easily,
asciilifeform: like-that.
mircea_popescu: like what ?
ckang: you can hop between various towers or APs seamlessly without re-authenticating
ckang: which takes a bit of time on openvpn
ckang: so assuming the applications timeout is set appropriately, its like what mosh is to ssh (wireguard to openvpn)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the displacement takes place in the imagination of the usg chair warmers, naturally. 'we'll cook up this boeckian substitute, no one will have any curiosity re the real thing, when it deigns to show up' being the idea.
mircea_popescu: the only important question in computing is what i end up using anyway. to that standard, what difference could it possibly make.
ckang: https://streamable.com/am04x heres short screencapture
ckang: showing how quickly it will close one tunnel and open up another
ckang: its faster than watch's 1s updates
asciilifeform: !#s single packet
a111: 28 results for "single packet", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=single%20packet
asciilifeform: ckang: see ^ logs.
asciilifeform: no martian tech needed, stateless routing is basic sanity
ckang: yea but its nice to see in a working product that i can use now
ckang: its much lighter such that it can even be run on ARM routers
ckang: and not have super terrible performance
asciilifeform: def of 'working' in re a ciphrator, is tricky question
asciilifeform: e.g., rot13 -- 'works, is fast'
ckang: oh theres an interesting read regarding its security flaw, operators. https://lists.zx2c4.com/pipermail/wireguard/2017-November/001969.html
asciilifeform: ckang: this makes 0 sense as 'flaw'
ckang: its not a 'flaw'
ckang: but rather a concern people had
ckang: there hasnt really been anything major in terms of flaws I could find.
ckang: but that could be because theres not large adoption of it
ckang: i just thought it was interesting for them to code protection in for such things
asciilifeform: adoption can reveal presence of flaws, but not absence (tm)(r)
ckang: it increases the surface area
mircea_popescu: "It turns out that this strength might actually be a weakness for some. A small commercial VPN provider approached me recently about the fact they could see the allowed IPs mapping easily with WireGuard, whereas with OpenVPN it was hidden deep inside a process they didn't know how to debug. "Great," I thought. Not so fast. They were concerned that when compelled to retrieve this kind of information, they would no longer be ab
mircea_popescu: le to claim, "we don't know how," since WireGuard makes it so easy. So, they hired me for a day to develop and open source a small solution for their unique use case and odd scenario." for lulz.
ckang: and entropy of someone find it
asciilifeform: ckang: this is a fundamentally african approach.
ckang: if you are a security researcher would your time be better spent on something that 1 person uses or 100million people use?
ckang: im talking about it from that perspective
ckang: which is also a blessing because the government probably hasn't researched how to break it either
mircea_popescu: ckang why do you expect the usercount makes a difference ?
ckang: mircea_popescu: it doesnt really in how secure something is
mircea_popescu: generally, more thought is given to the design of airplane cockpits than of women's shoes, notwithstanding more women wear shoes than fly airplanes.
ckang: but does in terms of how many eyes and fingers are trying to break it
asciilifeform: ckang: a correct program stays correct after million yrs of 'research' by butthurt usg. an incorrect one -- is incorrect immediately, even if no one 'researched'
ckang: and with enough resources and time (similar to the brute-forcing), anything can come up
mircea_popescu: the anything is not a correct symbol. it's an approximation, and it only holds up in domains of little interest.
ckang: yea im not thinking in absolutes
mircea_popescu: this expectation that "if i go out to clubs enough, eventually i'll meet guyneviere" is fundamentally broken -- the slut's dead.
mircea_popescu: ain't nobody meeting her anywhere no mo.
mircea_popescu adds "Gwenhwyfar ferch Ogrfan Gawr drwg yn fechan, gwaeth yn fawr." to the public record, now we even have welsh rhyming slang in here!
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/front-page-woman/ << Trilema - Front Page Woman
lobbes: I certainly wasn't planning on it being a long-term solution, but I see what you mean. Plus, if I'm burning time anyways on this I may as well just learn some lisp and use the trinquebot. Have an actual republican item out of the effort rather than another pile of stapled dildos >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796013☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 03:42 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1795922 << this is broken in the same way as the subjects of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-03#1792556 discussion.
mircea_popescu: lobbes quite.
ckang: !!up kittycollector
deedbot: kittycollector voiced for 30 minutes.
ckang: i have one if you are interested mircea_popescu
kittycollector: Hey
kittycollector: Quiet room 😌
ckang: ya just wait around ill ping u if he comes back
kittycollector: 😎
lobbes: !!v C2A2518901C3C94171AB952EFDDE5C7484FF9FBF648E6A737C91D009CEF1EC47
deedbot: Invoiced ben_vulpes 0.0547 << Samsung 860 EVO 1TB 2.5 Inch SATA III Internal SSD (2018-04-11)
lobbes: ^ using vwap of 6826.05 from nanotube's gribble
lobbes: !!v FA59360A7EF0C7AC5A3482E3325AC191ECAB223AC75715661699A7551035E23D
deedbot: lobbes unrated shinohai.
lobbes: ^ que pasa contigo, shinohai? There's a way to step back gracefully that would preserve your solid reputation, but abandoning your post ain't that way.
ckang: nice drive
ckang: how are the 860s over the 850?
lobbes: no idea! wasn't for me
lobbes: sadly, all my ssds are non-samsung
ckang: ah its pretty much the only brand ive stuck with
lobbes: yeah, I've heard it is the best
ckang: but in terms of reliablity i have had better luck with spinning rust
ckang: hitachi HSGT
ckang: ultrastars, bulletproof
lobbes: that also lines up with what I've learned thus far: hdd - reliability, ssd - speed
lobbes: ssd, for example, is pretty much necessary for trb nodes to not fall behind.
mircea_popescu: heya kittycollector
kittycollector: Hey
mircea_popescu: you here for teh titwriting ?
kittycollector: Yes sir
mircea_popescu: f9a75060
kittycollector: Thx, give me a minute
mircea_popescu: sure.
mircea_popescu: !!up kittycollector
deedbot: kittycollector voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: !!up zezizezi
deedbot: zezizezi voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: you about ?
mircea_popescu: !!up avgjoe
deedbot: avgjoe voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: who might you be ?
avgjoe: interested in running trb
mircea_popescu: a cool. trouble with it ?
avgjoe: no, just concerns about investing time setup it and being able to use it in the future
mircea_popescu: specifically ?
avgjoe: bech32 addresses, how the node behave?
mircea_popescu: ignores them.
mircea_popescu: this is intentional and will not change.
avgjoe: i suppose that is a noob question, but if someone send me btc from a bech32 address to my trb legacy address, does the node ignore the tx?
mircea_popescu: no.
avgjoe: so there will never be a double standard with "tier 1 bitcoins" stored in legacy addresses and tier 2 stored in bech addresses, correct?
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's a lot for you to read wrt to why specifically segwit is a usg-driven attack against bitcoin, and not supported by the bitcoin foundation. perhaps the recent http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1795944 is a good starting point ; but generally the logs are your friends, search them.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 03:17 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1795919 << bitcoin addresses come in the form 1x, like say 1NwAjL6CwMHm5S9aeFfmop5VtqBA6aNJRT ; some dorks came up with an "extension". there are fundamental problems with their code, discussed in the logs, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-11#1697111 / http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-11#1697118
mircea_popescu: avgjoe there already is a double standard : 1address bitcoin are bitcoin ; everything else is usg-crap.
mircea_popescu: do not expect time/effort invested in usg-crap will yield anyhthing but tears for you.
mircea_popescu: all segwit coins are going to be eventually unwound. this is again intentional, and not likely to change.
mircea_popescu: running trb offers a firm guarantee that you will have your coins perpetually. running the various usg-sponsored "i can't believe it's not bitcoin" margerine offers a firm guarantee that a) any time you spend with them will be wasted on a long enough timeline and b) any resources you spend with them will be worthless on a long enough timeline. so bear that in mind.
mircea_popescu: and with this, ima be off to bed. laters.
avgjoe: thanks for the segwit discussion, i have just looked in the logs for "bech32" and it outputs very little
avgjoe: thanks for now
avgjoe: About this message i've a concern: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-11#1697118☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-11 17:52 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the substantial weakness segwit adds to bitcoin chain security is that witout it, one needs the power to unwind the chain AND the keys of old txn to steal bitcoin. whereas with it, one only needs the hash power, as anyone can spend the segwit shit.
avgjoe: Basically segwit it could be reprhased as the "i'm a good politician that will enforce the ---good--- policy but to enforce this i'll need to take some of your sovereignty (keys), but bear with me, hashrate is gonna protect you"
avgjoe: sorry for the english, trying to understand if i'm getting the point correctly
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796067 <-- grrr, I lack too many includes to engage in a proper discussion on this. and sifting through the papers puts me into a rabbit hole of deeper and deeper includes and, frustratingly, unresolved medicine tactics. and I've wandered through such rabbit holes for the last 4 years.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 04:16 mircea_popescu: "<mircea_popescu> (on #wireguard) zx2c4 (the owner, j. donenfeld) : if you're willing to set two hours apart on any day of your choosing to answer wireguard questions on #trilema, i'm willing to donate 1 btc to your project. let me know, i'm usually on freenode (this nick). thanks & gl." << asciilifeform spyked whoever else might care.
spyked: anyway, I'd be happy to read a version of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796038 (or better yet, a blog post/series) that explicitly references or otherwise explains all the priors and provides an actual proof, not just "we model this in tamarin, gtfo, install it and read the proof it generates". I want to be able to find out precisely what "symbolic reasoning/analysis" means in their universe, wtf is a "message deduction theory"☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 04:05 ckang: sorta related, but what do you think about this.. https://www.wireguard.com/papers/wireguard-formal-verification.pdf
spyked: etc. otherwise this all looks like word salad.
spyked: !#s noise protocol
a111: 14 results for "noise protocol", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=noise%20protocol
spyked: ^ also probably relevant discussion
shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796166 <<< I think the time for grace has passed, and if it isn't clear enough already I won't be wasting anymore time participating in Republican affairs since obviously I have nothing else to contribute. I did, in fact, offer to help you add the gribble functions to your bot or share my version of the plugins (Which incidentally, don't require any of the stuff you☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 06:07 lobbes: ^ que pasa contigo, shinohai? There's a way to step back gracefully that would preserve your solid reputation, but abandoning your post ain't that way.
shinohai: mentioned here: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-10#1795655). But if that, and things like http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-10#1795655 are throwing you for such a loop, I don't imagine my plugins will help you at all.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-10 19:00 lobbes: I attempted to slap a gribble instance up on pizarro shell last night, but hit a roadblock trying to get 'tcl' working locally (sqlite3 makefile, which gribble depends on, will not run without tcl apparently)
shinohai: Espero que ahora si entiendes muy claro "Lo que esta pasando conmigo".
mod6: Thanks for your patience with me this past year, #trilema. It's been a long one.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796216 << that's because the 'field' is a rat's nest of deliberate, obscurantist claptrap. 'there is no there, there.' can burn considerably more than 4y, it is a bottomless pit -- a kind of mechanized astrology.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 10:07 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796067 <-- grrr, I lack too many includes to engage in a proper discussion on this. and sifting through the papers puts me into a rabbit hole of deeper and deeper includes and, frustratingly, unresolved medicine tactics. and I've wandered through such rabbit holes for the last 4 years.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796218 << if the usg claptrap scaffolding were removed, the whole thing would vanish, like a toy balloon with skin peeled away. there'd be no 'product'.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 10:14 spyked: anyway, I'd be happy to read a version of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796038 (or better yet, a blog post/series) that explicitly references or otherwise explains all the priors and provides an actual proof, not just "we model this in tamarin, gtfo, install it and read the proof it generates". I want to be able to find out precisely what "symbolic reasoning/analysis" means in their universe, wtf is a "message deduction theory"
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796220 << that's because... it IS salad. with a perfume of 'proofiness' sprayed on , as described in e.g. http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1390 re urbitists☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 10:14 spyked: etc. otherwise this all looks like word salad.
asciilifeform: the premier peddlers of this type of snake oil 'commercially' (i.e. fattened on lavish usg contracts) are the cryptol people. they've spawned, unsurprisingly, shoddy imitators.
asciilifeform: !#s cryptol
a111: 8 results for "cryptol", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=cryptol
asciilifeform: ^ see also.
asciilifeform: i do not have anything against mechanized proof per se. but in practice it is in ~100% of published cases used as an attempted 'i can't believe it's not self-evident correctness!' margarinesque substitute for fits-in-head.
spyked: aha. I would add that I for one would gladly read even informal, less rigorous proofs, provided they helped me understand the protocol and the underlying knowledge. also am ok with "this automated thing is the mobility aid we use for the brain, and it works this way"; (and ftr, I looked over the tamarin and got stuck "symbolic model" and other obscure terms).
spyked: but as it is, I could only ask stupid questions such as "what's wrong with modelling this using petri nets". or any other simpler method.
spyked: *got stuck at
asciilifeform: spyked: the authors of these wonders, have very other goals in mind than to help you understand. quite the opposite.
asciilifeform: i.e. 'magic haskell oracle pronounced that my proof is proofy-enuff. nao gimme tenure.'
asciilifeform: spyked: prev. thread, incidentally, re 'noise protocol' : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701852☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 12:02 asciilifeform: the other lul in the 'noise protocol' is the use of symmetric ciphers
asciilifeform: with special emphasis on http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701858 .☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 12:07 asciilifeform: the 'noise protocol' link is hilarious -- even features the classic leper's bell of nsa committee , the null-cipher
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796228 << shinohai -- what's the plan, 'i'ma switch off my bot, they will see, will SEE, how necessary i was!11' or wat.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 10:40 shinohai: Espero que ahora si entiendes muy claro "Lo que esta pasando conmigo".
spyked: asciilifeform, indeed. I inevitably got reminded of the noise thread when stumbling upon: "WireGuard, the secure network tunnel, uses an interesting Diffie-Hellman authenticated key exchange protocol based on NoiseIK, [...]". so. yeah, "interesting" indeed.
spyked: anyway, I can see mircea_popescu's point re "but unlike gossipd, this broken implementation exists!". but unlike, say, Bitcoin, which, broken implementations or not, I can understand by going to the sources, this I can't, at least not without getting myself deep into the slime pit.
asciilifeform: spyked: this is where the empire shines, really -- they can always muster the brute ox power to make a 'this at least exists' ersatz.
asciilifeform: speaking of which, apparently AS OF TODAY gentoo portage latest ver DEMANDS gpg2.
asciilifeform: goodbye 'emerge portage'.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> back when some imbecile went to fake news media rather than coming to qntra, got sent to jail for it, STILL did not admit there exists no media online besides qntra. << AHA the "Reality Winner" http://qntra.net/2017/06/reality-winner-arrested-for-leaking-to-omidyar-and-greenwalds-fake-qntra/
mircea_popescu: trinque http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/BZQ0e/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ty!
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796214 << yes, except for the part where "hashrate is gonna protect you". the whole POINT of taking some of the information OUT of the blockchain is to try and reduce the protection of hashrate, and make everyone dependent on protection by non-hashrate. which is WHY this is usg move against bitcoin. i don't need no stinking fuckwit to "help me", and i don't care why he thinks i do. i know wh☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 08:11 avgjoe: Basically segwit it could be reprhased as the "i'm a good politician that will enforce the ---good--- policy but to enforce this i'll need to take some of your sovereignty (keys), but bear with me, hashrate is gonna protect you"
mircea_popescu: y he wants me to think i do, it's all in http://trilema.com/2013/fried-chicken/
mircea_popescu: moreover, the "hashrate" bullshit, besides being false, is also specifically engineered to follow a certain hope of imperial survival, the supposed "network effect", ie http://trilema.com/2013/digging-through-archives-yields-gold/#selection-109.0-113.830
mircea_popescu: the problem for them is that i now have a pill for that, and http://trilema.com/2014/georg-ritter-von-flondor-and-what-his-unhappy-life-can-teach-us/ ie, not taking any fucking prisoners nor negotiating with idiots. so...
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796216 << the whole thing is phrased as "asking questions". one can never be in a rabbit hole so deep they can't ask questions. it's not your job to make any determination, so why stress.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 10:07 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796067 <-- grrr, I lack too many includes to engage in a proper discussion on this. and sifting through the papers puts me into a rabbit hole of deeper and deeper includes and, frustratingly, unresolved medicine tactics. and I've wandered through such rabbit holes for the last 4 years.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, hell froze over, a ban on microshit being seriously floated in ru parliament
mircea_popescu: believe it or not.
mircea_popescu: trade wars, dood, the first step of "governments" coming to terms with malthusian shock (also known as "when the ideology of abundance runs ashore on the jagged rocks of reality")
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796224 << a, really ? well best of luck to you then!☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 10:39 shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796166 <<< I think the time for grace has passed, and if it isn't clear enough already I won't be wasting anymore time participating in Republican affairs since obviously I have nothing else to contribute. I did, in fact, offer to help you add the gribble functions to your bot or share my version of the plugins (Which incidentally, don't require any of the stuff you
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796242 << this is a problem of how you phrase your questions. see, the fundamental, and apparently enduring, cockroach here is that you have an "in-control" mental model you won't diverge from, and it is disabling for your mental process in the following way : you judge "you can't contribute" arbitrarily, and damagingly, in the exact sense contemplated in http://trilema.com/2014/a-conceit-or☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 14:26 spyked: but as it is, I could only ask stupid questions such as "what's wrong with modelling this using petri nets". or any other simpler method.
mircea_popescu: -the-importance-of-blogging/ or http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760915 or otherwise in the log. "how can you predict what will be useful TO YOURSELF in a few years ? let alone to others, today or later ?"☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 21:30 mircea_popescu: here's a problem i perceive phf : you could guess about log(n) of my understanding of various things that interest me on the basis of reading trilema ; i could not guess epsilon of thge say your understanding of sbcl on the basis of reading whatever you provide voluntarily. i could glean it from this kind of interaction, but here's what that means : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760839
mircea_popescu: by forcing an answer to a question you're not in a position to answer ("is this useful y/n") you end up baking incorrectness into your tree, which then can be relied on by further incorrectness coming down the line for support.
mircea_popescu: and the issue repeats with questions, "i don't know what question to ask such that the response puts me in full control of everything" is not a valid mapping for "i don't know what questions to ask". you've seen me n times ask questions ~about the thing~, ie, to allow the thing to be illuminated, irrespective of whether they "help" me to anything. cuz i don't care about myself ~in this sense~. i care about myself in the other
mircea_popescu: sense, the sense whereby the enemy can't rely on freinds within the walls.
mircea_popescu: now, it's evident where this misrepresentation of intellectual process comes from -- the inept notion of caregivers kid should be "responsible". kid shouldn't be nor is responsible in that sense ; if one of my girls sets the house on fire through unforeseen effect of reasonable application of item, she may feel guilty as a residual side effect of the sexual abuse her parents and broader society put her through, but she won't
mircea_popescu: be in trouble.
mircea_popescu: also, if nuclear weapons ended the world in 1970 ~good for them~, and if the supercollider "ended reality" in the 2010s (as various imbeciles proposed as a valid reason "not to do it" all over the oh-so-useful-and-valuable "science press"), GOOD FOR IT.
mircea_popescu: it is not written upon reality that it must endure forever, let it mind it's own fucking affairs and endure if it has the mettle ; nor was any penguin born with a certified license to eternal life. let them learn how to forge and fire cannon or let them get the fuck off the evolutionary tree.
mircea_popescu: and in general, the cockcages are optional, even if misrepresented as mandatory by mommy.
trinque: mircea_popescu: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/3baoy/?raw=true
BingoBoingo: The strongest cockcage is the one that lives in the redditard hea
BingoBoingo: d
mircea_popescu: and now i can't fucking find the core reference of this discussion, whether it was on trilema or in the log i don't remember, but it examined how would i have evaluated the eventual utility of $item at early stage, and made the point indeed very well.
mircea_popescu: trinque will do.
BingoBoingo: I am guessing it probably isn't http://trilema.com/2014/what-interests-me-in-a-project/
mircea_popescu: notrly. that's kinda the problem, lotta good stuff kinda-related, but there was one specific fucking item.
mircea_popescu: i need better indexing, and i don't know how the fuck to make it ;/
BingoBoingo: Right, even a classic algo strictly Pagerank google whitelisted to the WoT still wouldn't grep with nuance
mircea_popescu: pretty infuriating.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701858 << incidentally, one of the things that made me chuckle to myself, was the usage of empty enciphered packets to heartbeat.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 12:07 asciilifeform: the 'noise protocol' link is hilarious -- even features the classic leper's bell of nsa committee , the null-cipher
mircea_popescu: nobody apparently asked "why not send the time ?"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: picture if the selector on kalash had a 'fires backwards' position.
mircea_popescu: if such a rifle could be made, the us would have made it. physics got in their way.
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's evidently a pile of very simple and very useful questions to ask. "Why not send the time ?".
BingoBoingo: In other news after spending a Uruguayo/a free night slaying the Inca in bed my mood is not quite so dismal. As long as there's no "want of a nail" cascades alf shouldn't be greeted by Eeyore. This still does nothing to solve the indexing problem.
asciilifeform: well considering that ~whole point~ of heartbl^H^Heat 'feature' is to assist knownplaintextattack...
mircea_popescu: what the fuck do i care "what it all means in the end". let the end fucking care. and how the hell could any process baked in "$the end". imagine if there was a language which required as part of any function call the exit code of the program. wut ?!
mircea_popescu: bake* in
mircea_popescu: (and this is no small matter, the current principal driver of pantsuit popularity among the not-retarded set is exactly this : their dumb mother told them when they were wee kids that they must have the exit code for any function call, and they never examined the idiotic outpour of the useless dumb whore, so there they sit today, unable to act unless some replicant of the original dumb whore whispers in their ear "all is well
mircea_popescu: " so they can put that putative exit code into their function calls and function. what the fuck!)
asciilifeform: 'It Is Texas Law That When Two Trains Meet Each Other At A Railroad Crossing, Each Shall Come To A Full Stop, And Neither Shall Proceed Until The Other Has Gone'
mircea_popescu: (and this is also why i pronounced http://trilema.com/2016/the-story-of-elliot-rodger-by-elliot-rodger-adnotated-part-one/ as the ultimate hero : because he, unlike "the smarter" lot of them, actually wanted a girlfriend TO USE HER, not so that his dumb head can finally function, oh, $woman-in-head is here to tell me all will be ok, now i can pour myself a glass of milk whereas before--couldn't. this much is categorical advan
mircea_popescu: cement over the current state of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-04#1792978 set)☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-04 22:46 mircea_popescu: anyway, since we're reading "slate star codex", ie scott alexander's blog (the pantsuit-annointed official tlp replacement so tlp never actually happened), let's lul together : https://archive.is/Yyblu#selection-1259.852-1259.1460
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, that's not even such a bad rule, force escalation. "you got into a mess on your own power, you are forbidden using your own power again until someone else who knows wtf they're doing PUTS YOU IN A DIFFERENT SITUATION".
mircea_popescu: let them be both picked by cranes and moved at great expense.
mircea_popescu: next time they won't fucking do the dumb.
asciilifeform: amusingly enuff, this is approx what actually happens
mircea_popescu: right-o.
asciilifeform: ( smoking wreck will be, yes, moved by crane... )
mircea_popescu: truly exactly how nature works.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo doesn't she want titmoney ?
asciilifeform fell in luvv with 'sokoban' as a boy, it was ~the~ game, and only many yrs later realized the appeal: so much like in actual life, player spends good % of time in 'yer phucked, whether know it or not, all yer moves are futile' state
mircea_popescu: ehehe.
mircea_popescu: sokoban is actually a great item because it correctly exposes a primitive -- not of "social discouse" or w/e the fuck, an actual item of reality.
mircea_popescu: it's in this sense an important game in a way doom or warcraft 2 or w/e are not.
asciilifeform: hmm wonder if ...
asciilifeform: ;;google そこばん
asciilifeform: oh grrr, it was shinohai's bot wasnnit.
mircea_popescu: the translate call ? yeah.
asciilifeform: yea meant to push 'translate'. but both, grr.
mircea_popescu: !!up kittycollector
deedbot: kittycollector voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so what are you beefing over, you got a bot, have it translate.
asciilifeform: when asciilifeform is no longer catastrophically swamped with 9000 horrors, will possibly attempt a general-purpose bot ( ideally with real, rather than googlistic, dictionaries even )
asciilifeform: but to be fair 'translator' only turned back into open problem a week or so ago.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796253 << if only. bitcoin would fail the exact same tests today. it's built out of windows basically.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 14:55 spyked: anyway, I can see mircea_popescu's point re "but unlike gossipd, this broken implementation exists!". but unlike, say, Bitcoin, which, broken implementations or not, I can understand by going to the sources, this I can't, at least not without getting myself deep into the slime pit.
mircea_popescu: !!up heyleeecx
deedbot: heyleeecx voiced for 30 minutes.
heyleeecx: im here to show my tits apparently cx
mircea_popescu: ever did this before ?
heyleeecx: nope
mircea_popescu: e3355c3b
mod6: asciilifeform does have a lot on his plate. maybe one of the newer gentlemen want to try their hand at a bot.
phf: asciilifeform: don't need google translate for that one, can just use btcbase :p
phf: "SO KO BA N"
asciilifeform: phf: i wanted to see what demented crapola google spits out for it
mircea_popescu: "would you like to buy shoes"
asciilifeform: ( i dun need the phonetics, i keyed it in on an actual kbd by hand, know how to sound it lol )
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo doesn't she want titmoney ? << Maybe? I am inclined to wait until she tires of paying for things to present the opportunity or I get bored. She's español as a single language and does not understand technology.
mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZYUvD6E5pU << apaprently there's also a platformer
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it was actually pretty popular, overshadowed imho undeservedly by the less cerebral tetris
mircea_popescu: what was ?
heyleeecx: !!register http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/iReW7/?raw=true
deedbot: 2FD0EEEC595AE266F3DFDED3BF9FF1C7D1A9EF2E registered as heyleeecx.
asciilifeform: orig sokoban
mircea_popescu: well yes, i had it.
asciilifeform: oh lol ~actual~ platformer, with gravity, ha
mircea_popescu: yes.
mircea_popescu: i never saw the item in youtube above before.
douchebag: mircea_popescu: I told this girl to use an actual wallet this time and not one of those bullshit ones :D
mircea_popescu: ty!
phf: asciilifeform: i'm just making sure the new feature is sufficiently advertised
asciilifeform: http://www.bestoldgames.net/eng/old-games/sokoban.php << the ver i had, back in stone age
phf: the recommended videos for that arcade sokoban reminded me that there used to be a unix bomberman clone, that had multiplayer implemented by connecting to multiple x11 servers and having each window/connection be a separate player. we used to spend nights at moscow state unix room playing that thing on a local lan
asciilifeform: pretty neat
phf: xbomber now sdl bomber, presumably without the multiplayer http://www.linuxmotors.com/SDL_bomber/downloads/
asciilifeform: next, waylandbomber
asciilifeform from that period recalls only 'penguin' or what was it, where you shoot billgates heads. where did THAT evaporate to.
phf: xbill :)
asciilifeform: aaa yes
phf: http://www.xbill.org/
asciilifeform: ha! i had nfi.
mircea_popescu: phf pretty sure i played that one
asciilifeform: in other noose, google domains begin to be fw'd in ru
asciilifeform: ( supposedly. i have not personally tested. )
mircea_popescu: the bomberman thing i mean
phf: i'm surprised how little mention of it is on the internet. i guess the peculiar multiplayer mode means that it could only be popular in a very few places
phf: and tbf it was rapidly replaced by quake1, once the engine was released in 99. i'm pretty msu had own port going, because the graybeards (i.e. 22 year old grad students) would sometimes patch things overnight when we ran into bugs
heyleeecx: oki gonna write the code now cx
heyleeecx: just hold up for a few
heyleeecx: https://i.imgur.com/76CPCX0.jpg
heyleeecx: I messed up the first time and had to re write it oopsie!
asciilifeform: what happened to the 3's ?
heyleeecx: oh noeeez! i was writing upside down and made an accident
mircea_popescu: lol made an accident
mircea_popescu: !!pay heyleeecx 0.02
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/XEeob/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: !!up heyleeecx
deedbot: heyleeecx voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: !!rate heyleeecx 1 mades accidents
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/XSN3m/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: so what do you make, other than accidents, heyleeecx ?
douchebag: more accidents, it's my life story basically
heyleeecx: i like oragami
douchebag: im just glad i get out of this shithole in less than two months
mircea_popescu: heyleeecx but i mean, do you work ? go to school ?
heyleeecx: not right now im still deciding what I want to do with the rest of my life, it's a LOTTT of pressure thats been bothering me for awhile
heyleeecx: i think psychology would be cool but i dont know if i would be able to handle all of the college stuff
mircea_popescu: um. so how do you eat ?
heyleeecx: i love cooking and trying new foods for myself but i have worked at restaurants before and hated it
mircea_popescu: yes, but if you don't work and if you don't study, how do you obtain the things that you eat.
mircea_popescu: !!up kittycollector
deedbot: kittycollector voiced for 30 minutes.
heyleeecx: i live with my parents right now
kittycollector: Hi mircea_popescu - very sorry I sat down to only a second and ended up falling asleep on the couch 😪
kittycollector: For only*
kittycollector: Sorry phone, I took it this morning if you wanted it still.
kittycollector: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/hKDKTxiZ/image.jpg
mircea_popescu: heyleeecx i see.
mircea_popescu: !!pay kittycollector 0.02
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/LtHFW/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: kittycollector do you collect kittens ?
kittycollector: Again I appologize, I didn't mean for it to happen. Have a break at work now.
kittycollector: Lol, no not quite, I have 1.
kittycollector: But would own more if I could, maybe getting a 2nd this summer.
mircea_popescu: i thought it was more of an age-related thing
kittycollector: Growing up we've always had 2, I think they keep each other entertained.
mircea_popescu: that they do.
kittycollector: I could be a crazy cat lady some day, 💯
mircea_popescu: i love you phf, did i mention it recently ?
BingoBoingo: kittycollector: Indoors or outdoors?
kittycollector: Indoors
mircea_popescu: unlike dogs, cats kinda do ok indoors also...
mircea_popescu: kittycollector ever been to turkey ?
BingoBoingo: That they do.
kittycollector: I haven't, seems like its a touchy area at the moment though.
mircea_popescu: i guess. but they have humongous cat culture.
mircea_popescu: i think istanbul is actually the terran capitol of catempire.
kittycollector: I dont foresee myself traveling over there any time soon.
BingoBoingo: The outdoor cats here are too docile. No OG barncats murdering the shit out of nature here. Sure there's some cats, but there's no fear in the local pigeons
kittycollector: I don't think mine could survive outside at this point
mircea_popescu: #nofear
kittycollector: Hes a big baby lol
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, living with parents is not healthy, heyleeecx
kittycollector: So what do you all do?
mircea_popescu: kittycollector try to take over the world!
BingoBoingo: Eh, get him a couple pet hamsters. That'll get the cat healthier.
kittycollector: Pinky & the brain
mircea_popescu: can't see that without thinking of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIu4fP4fOHE
BingoBoingo: Wait, are trying to take over or carve out a safe space to act with impunity? I guess really there isn't a difference.
kittycollector: Lol, same here. That phrase every time
heyleeecx: i want to move but i dont know what to do with my life
BingoBoingo: !!up heyleeecx
deedbot: heyleeecx voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/04/chinese-customs-agents-deny-entry-to-us-garbage/ << Qntra - Chinese Customs Agents Deny Entry To US Garbage
BingoBoingo: !!up kittycollector
deedbot: kittycollector voiced for 30 minutes.
douchebag: mircea_popescu:
douchebag: I have another girl interested
mircea_popescu: aite
douchebag: but she'll be here in about an hr
douchebag: on her way home right now
mircea_popescu: heyleeecx yes, but the problem is likely that you overvalue yourself. which is why all the " LOTTT of pressure" and bs.
mircea_popescu: run off with the circus or something.
douchebag: dat gypsie life
mircea_popescu: it's hard, you know, middle class parents keep telling girlie she's valuable and important and in charge and whatnot, when none of those are the case. then as adolescence is drawing to an end, all those kited checks of "safety" and "better not have unprotected sex with random people if you're not 100% sure they know your name" come to be paid and well... there's nothing to pay them with.
mircea_popescu: !!up heyleeecx
deedbot: heyleeecx voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: heyleeecx think about it : you spent however long, 20 years doing what your parents told you, and what's it got you ? a lot of pressure ? the sad situation where you don't know what to do with yourself ?
mircea_popescu: gotta cut your losses and move on SOMETIME. they were wrong, because stupid&pretentious, forget the whole pile of nonsense and try something else.
heyleeecx: i just dont really have skills that would make me successful i feel
mircea_popescu: why do you have to be "successful" ?
BingoBoingo: Successful's and outcome of doing, and doing is the only way to build skills
heyleeecx: where do I start??? right now I have nothing
mircea_popescu: go to the closest highway, preferably wearing shoes only, and see who wants to give you a ride. that's where you start. where do you want to start ffs.
heyleeecx: i dont think i want to be a prostitute
mircea_popescu: but nobody asked you what you want. your entire problem is you keep positing what you want matters any.
mircea_popescu: it does not matter, at all.
heyleeecx: i want to find something i am good at to find success in life
mircea_popescu: asshole "parents" ie child molesters living a century prior at least had the common decency to create a security plan for their fucktoys. yes they kept the "lady" girlies in a cage their whole life, but then also had an entire system whereby someone would come along and marry them.
mircea_popescu: nowadays, they still do the molestation like then, but they've done away with the golden net. outright fucking obscene.
mircea_popescu: heyleeecx this whole "something i'm good at" is fairytale dust, they took the "prince charming" item and translated it for the "empowered, hear her roar" girly. now you gotta find a prince-charming-thingtodo ? gimme a break.
mircea_popescu: there's no such thing, as there never was such a thing.
heyleeecx: so you are saying just find a good husband?
mircea_popescu: no. i am saying get over yourself, be a truckstop hooker for a few years until the middle class is washed out of your hair, then do what can be done.
BingoBoingo: And in Javascript today: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2018-April/015873.html
heyleeecx: i dont want to go to jail for being a hooker
mircea_popescu: why not ?
mircea_popescu: at least then you'd know you're in jail.
BingoBoingo: heyleeecx: Plenty of places where it's legal
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's just enough time left before the middle class extinction event that by the time you're coming out, the mass rape of all your sisters that "knew better" would just be getting underway. maybe you can even help one or two.
BingoBoingo: Anyways, fear of going to jail is a sign of already being in jail
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo pastebin that ?
BingoBoingo: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WGxX0/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: ty
mircea_popescu: heh
BingoBoingo: The lulz are all in that first sentence: "A significant number of past and current cryptocurrency products contain a JavaScript class named SecureRandom(), containing both entropy collection and a PRNG."
mircea_popescu: "* don't take the output of a CSPRNG and pass it through RC4" should have been "don't whiten, fucktard"
asciilifeform: lol, js crypto still exists!?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform webwallets, yes ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: typical 'gox' is moar of a plain paypal / sslism thing, rather than js
heyleeecx: well thanks for all the advice but i have to run ttyl
mircea_popescu: later.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: These are blockchain.info style things where they market "all the crypto happens in your browser window"
mircea_popescu: sometimes i wonder how #trilema actually reads from the other side. "i'm a confused girly with adolescent tits and a pretty smile, did they just tell me to go hang naked by the highway ?!?!"
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: hey, who am i to complain, the folx who dun feel like paying for 'expensive' FG -- are more than welcome to pay the cost of using js prng etc
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform my thoughts exactly. the swarm of idiots use non-qntra "press", get reality winnings, non-nsa entropy, get etc.
mircea_popescu: let'em.
asciilifeform: stipendi peccatus (tm)(r)
asciilifeform: in other noose, asciilifeform found that FG connects to rockchiptron with 10cent straight cable, sans usb
asciilifeform: ( thing has ttl-voltaged serial ports and a ready 5v out )
BingoBoingo: If someone want's to write up the failure, may be publishable, but I've got no angle for it other than repeating "stop hitting yourself"
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> in other noose, asciilifeform found that FG connects to rockchiptron with 10cent straight cable, sans usb << Rockchip workstation just became a lot more interesting
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: to be fair, this is true of almost all similar boards on the market
asciilifeform: ( e.g. 'allwinner' , 'snapdragon', even broadcom's infamous raspberry )
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: But unlike the rest, it managed to pass several rounds of the alf sniff test
mircea_popescu: yeah this is pretty interesting. should prolly fg the set.
asciilifeform: not only sniff test, but , may as well proclaim it here : 1) 6 rockchiptrons are to be installed at pizarro 2) each subscriber gets a clean , asciilifeform-recipe gentoo image to start with 3) 128GB flash by default , upgrades negotiable , talk to ben_vulpes & mod6 4) each machine comes with full kernel src for asciilifeform's custom rockchip kernel recipe
mircea_popescu: and fgs ?
asciilifeform: (4) is perhaps worth expanding on : it is special 'headless' , reclaims the memory that would have been eaten by gpu; also disables keyboard/mouse/HID
mircea_popescu: by now this is an epic machine, are you kidding me, all sussman would have needed to make an ai
mircea_popescu: had sussman known how to make an ai in the first place.
asciilifeform: FG pricing, i am leaving to the biznis genius of ben_vulpes & mod6 currently
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i hesitate to say 'epic', it suffers from slower-than-you-probably-used-to disk access , even with very spiffy usb3 flashes , http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-06#1793523 see also☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-06 01:44 asciilifeform: in other noose, ~143MB/s avg. reads , ~33MB/s writes, on samsung usb3 stick ( vs ~20 / 15 on sd prior )
asciilifeform: but it is a quite usable, inexpensive physically-isolated gentootron.
asciilifeform: with G/s nic, even.
mircea_popescu: sussman never had a mb/s io machine.
asciilifeform: verily
asciilifeform: tho to be fair , sussman also never ran apache.
BingoBoingo: Now we just need a good source for rubidium clocks
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no rule rockchips gotta run apache.
asciilifeform: troo
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo it can be in the next crate , if you can describe why we need one
mircea_popescu: i suppose i should have used minsky instead, sussman is a) still extant and b) kinda moved away from ai in the idyllic sense towards more practical applications IE SOLD OUT!
BingoBoingo: I see no need at present. I just imagine ways the board could be pimped. Since it lacks rtc clock, why not go for great rtc clock in Rockchip workstation spec.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo dude...
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it has a rtc , but no battery
BingoBoingo: Ah
asciilifeform: competing boards, some possibly better even , have one ('allwinner' )
asciilifeform: in principle there's no reason why every single board needs clock, so long as owner is friends with somebody who does have clock, in same rack
mircea_popescu: anyway, anyone wrote a good post mortem for the self-replicating neural network ? i mean, hal 9000 and all that bs, iue fictional retellings. but the actual story ? no interest among the science-fiction set ?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if it had sata option, i could recommend for 'workstation' ; presently would hesitate
asciilifeform: but in principle yes, makes for a ~2003-speed workstation..
shinohai: While asciilifeform is here on subj of rockchips, is this the type of tablet you referred to a few days prior? https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-C201-Chromebook-Rockchip-Lotus/dp/B01EGBAR4W
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what, specifically, means 'self replicating nn' ?
asciilifeform: shinohai: loox like previous version. new one iirc was c101pa .
asciilifeform: how much the chipset differs, i do not know, i have neither one currently , simply no time
asciilifeform: iirc old version had an evil (i.e. non-open-driver'd) nic
shinohai: ah kk, I have opportunity to purchase new equipment ... would like an arm device to gentoo
asciilifeform: shinohai: try the c101pa
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you recall, the thing that got all the inept "science" press hot and bothered in the 80s, and nosnense such as hal 9000 / space odissey etc (ie, the first iteration of "lesswrong" wankery) was a demonstration by sussman & goode that "you can have artificial brains growing in the same way as real ones", ie, neural networks that algorithmically expand
asciilifeform: shinohai: and in coupla days there will be a ready gentoo image you can try an' download
shinohai: Found those too: https://www.amazon.com/Chromebook-C101PA-DB02-Quad-Core-Lightweight-Touchscreen/dp/B075KFFMZS
mircea_popescu: i was denoting that historical event, cca 1983 iirc
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: asimov had same in '50s; not mega-modern
asciilifeform: ( he had a different paint on it, but otherwise same imho )
mircea_popescu: obviously, the fiction wank is just the same item cycled. but there was a. .. science-fashionabilia in the 80s.
asciilifeform: shinohai: the box is readily available in shops in usa also.
shinohai: I prefer mail order for stuffs, besides craigslist finds.
asciilifeform: shinohai: you might need a eeprom writer ( with a set of crocodiles ) , possibly
shinohai: I haz eeprom writer
asciilifeform: shinohai: then you'll need only coffee.
shinohai: got the Signstek TL866CS so I assume will work
asciilifeform: shinohai: welcome back to the doing-things club btw
asciilifeform: shinohai: any chance of bot return ?
asciilifeform: shinohai: i like tl866 verymuch. yes it worx.
shinohai: I dont want to bring the old bot back tbh, new one isn't finished. But will log into shell and restart for the 500th time shortly
asciilifeform: ty shinohai .
shinohai: shinohai plans on doing same things he always does anyway, with or without here.
asciilifeform: and i will note , folx like to spit on laptopism, but it is a necessary evil, and asciilifeform for one would like to have a reasonably lappy one day that doesn't weigh 3kg and doesn't eat a 150bux battery erry 3months
mircea_popescu: i have special electrics installed in cars to power laptops.
mircea_popescu: we spit on laptopism for some reason we spit on motherhood : to avoid naive heyleeecxen from getting stuck in the glue trap.
ben_vulpes: lobbes: didn't you have a simple process-restarter?
asciilifeform: but observer, ~everybody has a whole shelf of lappies , even 'with spitting'
mircea_popescu: indeed.
shinohai: Don't want to use process restarter on this box ben_vulpes ... if it goes down I'd rather know why. I don't really trust atlantic anymore tbh
shinohai: In fact, I was the one that recommended a solution to lobbes, re: process restarting.
ben_vulpes: shinohai: why does it go down, typicallY/
shinohai: I seem to have acquired a fan that likes pinging it to death or something. Got to read logs deeper
mircea_popescu: but since i've mentioned good, let it be stated that "Let an ultraintelligent machine be defined as a machine that can far surpass all the intellectual activities of any man however clever. Since the design of machines is one of these intellectual activities, an ultraintelligent machine could design even better machines; there would then unquestionably be an 'intelligence explosion,'" is a self-contradictory definition, entir
mircea_popescu: ely equivalent to "let an ultralarge integer be defined as that integer which is larger than all irrational numbers."
mircea_popescu: no such thing can exist, on either score, and for the same reasons.
lobbes: Re: process restarter, I ended up using a method trinque suggested (in logs somewhere but no time to dig): essentially the bot gets started as a child process to the parent proccess
lobbes: Was simple few lines of bash iirc
shinohai: ah kk.
lobbes: Ah here be relevant thread >> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-21#1716536☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-21 05:03 lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716279 << I ended up going this route.
lobbes: Archived script : http://archive.is/W6L5q
mircea_popescu: !!up maximian
deedbot: maximian voiced for 30 minutes.
maximian: hi MP
mircea_popescu: heya
maximian: so I’ve been out of the loop for a long time
mircea_popescu: how come ?
maximian: after S.DICE, I just went into HODL mode and have been mostly enjoying the runup in BTC price
mircea_popescu: trinque try yet again ?
mircea_popescu: maximian aha
maximian: so what happened to mpex?
mircea_popescu: well, proxies went away recently ; working on getting some back for teh ppls.
maximian: cool… so it’s not actually dead?
mircea_popescu: nah.
maximian: nice
maximian: mpex.biz is the correct url?
mircea_popescu: yeh
maximian: k thx
mircea_popescu: np.
mircea_popescu: read the logs, too. a lot of better stuff than just hodling.
maximian: will do
trinque: mircea_popescu: still doesn't want to talk to me on either
mircea_popescu: jesus fuck.
douchebag: hm?
mircea_popescu: in more upbeat news, homemade mango-ginger gelatto with shaved 100% costa rican chocolate atop. my diet is progressing wonderfully.
douchebag: !!up saturn_
deedbot: saturn_ voiced for 30 minutes.
saturn_: im here to show my tits hehe
douchebag: mircea_popescu is the man who handles that
saturn_: !!register http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/0qvpT/?raw=true
deedbot: 8F578B57149263815191B121BE2B714B46966398 registered as saturn_.
mircea_popescu: heya saturn_
saturn_: hello!!
mircea_popescu: adcebee7
saturn_: thanks!
mircea_popescu: and in other ancient spyked , http://trilema.com/2016/introducing-permanence/#comment-117166 lol
spyked: owow, that was 2016. took me a year to /join. :\
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2017/the-strange-case-of-the-red-stapler-and-other-related-stories/ << the year in question.
spyked: at some point I should write about how I stumbled upon Loper OS and got pissed off at all computing and started reading the (at the time #b-a) logs. spoiler alert: I was not in ro at the time, but stuck in "civilized" country, which made me even more furious.
mircea_popescu: ah the importance of civilised countries.
mircea_popescu: saturn_ you just ready ? i'm about to take off.
mircea_popescu: just about*
mircea_popescu: heh
mircea_popescu: !!up saturn_
deedbot: saturn_ voiced for 30 minutes.
spyked: the more civilized (i.e. fulla overeducated shitheads, to quote zappa) the country, the greater the fury.
mircea_popescu: someone should do a complete zappa colection, incidentally. he's one of the few worthy of the naggum treatment.
mircea_popescu: some of his music is even not bad, also.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in fetlife lulz, "<title>503 All backends failed or unhealthy</title>"
mircea_popescu: anyway ; bbl.
shinohai: Ye fucked their asses all out the first 2 times I woulda have thought.
trinque: mircea_popescu: ohey it works now
spyked: yeah, zappa is famous among others for having written some of the "most difficult to interpret songs ever". he then started arranging for sequenced instruments (e.g. synclavier), which rendered the whole idea of "difficult to interpret" useless. e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSAd6pC633A (late? baroque compositions arranged for synclavier)
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796265 <-- hey, no stress at all, I (out of curiosity) explored the verification $thing down to the 2nd level of "rabbit hole" and found nothing there worth being scrutinized. going deeper might reveal some questions, but I'm not gonna go sharpen the machete for "crypto protocols" jungle just to get there.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 15:38 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796216 << the whole thing is phrased as "asking questions". one can never be in a rabbit hole so deep they can't ask questions. it's not your job to make any determination, so why stress.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-08#1794067 << ave1 your FG went out (again!) today .☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-08 16:20 ave1: asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Chyyv/?raw=true, updated address
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796272 <-- I'ma examine this cockroach. but tbh, it may be that it's just difficult to be constructive in a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796086 way. for all I know, the thing could be modellable in a simpler way, only they never considered this. imho serious (yet not at all helpful) question if they ever tune in.☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 15:47 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796242 << this is a problem of how you phrase your questions. see, the fundamental, and apparently enduring, cockroach here is that you have an "in-control" mental model you won't diverge from, and it is disabling for your mental process in the following way : you judge "you can't contribute" arbitrarily, and damagingly, in the exact sense contemplated in http://trilema.com/2014/a-conceit-or
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 04:43 mircea_popescu: and do me a favour -- not in this lambasting tone!
douchebag: hey trinque
douchebag: how much data can be storn in QR codes?
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796332 <-- but one can, by reading the orig. paper, decompose it into windowses that then can be replaced, e.g. http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/ . granted, it took me years to peel off the layers of understanding and I'm still not quite there yet, but this is completely different from $formal_verification_devoid_of_meaning.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 16:28 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796253 << if only. bitcoin would fail the exact same tests today. it's built out of windows basically.
trinque: douchebag: I forget the actual limit, but can always break it up into multiple
asciilifeform: spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-01#1664352 << thread☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-01 18:14 asciilifeform: a business card printed on a very spartan (100 'dpi' ) press , gives what, 350 x 200 b&w pixels ;
trinque: human-text-sized things
asciilifeform: and somewhere after that i posted a demo
asciilifeform: err, douchebag ^
asciilifeform: >>> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-09#1734767☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-11-09 00:11 asciilifeform: incidentally, quick experiment gives http://www.loper-os.org/pub/512_letter_a.png
asciilifeform: ^ 4096bit, reads with standard blastergun
trinque: douchebag: if you're wondering for the girls, pubkey ass tattoo is totally feasible
douchebag: hahaha
asciilifeform: trinque, douchebag : not nearly as permanent as proper tattoo , but low-tech enuff and good for year or 2 -- print a negative and expose under one of those uv lamps that idiots 'suntan' under
asciilifeform: ( or even actual sunlight. print in sunscreen cream. then expose.. )
douchebag: I know a couple tattoo artists
douchebag: ill tattoo a QR code on my ass if a BTC reward is involved + tattoo costs
douchebag: !!up saturn_
deedbot: saturn_ voiced for 30 minutes.
saturn_: heyyyyyyyy
saturn_: sorry about the wait!
saturn_: roomates were bothering me!
saturn_: https://i.imgur.com/EOa4XG6.jpg
douchebag: mircea_popescu: ^
douchebag: 2015 +mircea_popescu │ heya saturn_ │ _whitelogger
douchebag: 2015 +saturn_ │ hello!! │ adlai
douchebag: 2015 +mircea_popescu │ adcebee7 │ candi_lustt
douchebag: 2016 +saturn_ │ thanks!
trinque: pastefail.
douchebag: yeah i know
douchebag: my client is weird when it comes to that
trinque: iirc one time I pasted an e-mail to my dad in here
douchebag: lol