phf: mircea_popescu: i've been searching from:<nick> "
http://" as a way to remind myself who is who
ckang: trinque: btw, is there a correct and incorrect way to make an address?
☟︎ lobbes: buut, the lack of 'root' access and my general inexperience with non-debian linuxen is throwing me for a loop. Though, suprisingly to me, it is the former rather than the latter that is throwing me the farthest (I've kinda been enjoying building shit from source).
douchebag: Girls are wondering if they wanna show tits
douchebag: trinque: I'm going to get a trb node setup when I get that server
douchebag: because right now if I put it on any of these machines, they wouldn't be running 24/7
ckang: will you be around for a bit mircea_popescu ?
mircea_popescu: meanwhile somewhere else, "I looked through your profile and I like what I've seen. What would serving you entail?"
a111: Logged on 2018-04-10 23:52 ckang: trinque: i dont think many of these girls have a long term mindset as far as investing goes, mostly college students or do menial low paying work
a111: Logged on 2018-04-10 23:53 trinque: man I dated a bartender slut once that kept cash gangster rolls under the bed
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-10#1795917 << actually, the college standard for middle-class kids throughout the 90s and maybe a short sliver of the 00s was kinda BingoBoingo 's experience : "they gave me all this money to leave parents' house, ima... drink it / smoke it". it came to an end, of course, nohope.jpg now, but it's what it was for a while there. i know n examples.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2018-04-10 23:57 ckang: theres also plenty of girls that just go to school to meet a husband, which hey, more power to you i suppose.
mircea_popescu: but otherwise, girls going to college to meet the sort of guy that goes to college is a time and space invariant. true in egypt today as it was true in romania 50 years ago as it was true in the us since inception.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 00:33 ckang: trinque: btw, is there a correct and incorrect way to make an address?
a111: Logged on 2017-08-11 17:49 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes and block depth. if you make segwit tx a to me at height 1 and i put it into a normal tx at block 2, i can spend it from block 3 as my bitcoin, the segwitnmess is gone out of it. to steal it from me, one has to rewind all the way to block 1 again. which is possible, but expensive as the chain builds.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-11 17:52 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the substantial weakness segwit adds to bitcoin chain security is that witout it, one needs the power to unwind the chain AND the keys of old txn to steal bitcoin. whereas with it, one only needs the hash power, as anyone can spend the segwit shit.
mircea_popescu: there's this pattern in usg attempts to subvert bitcoin, as discussed in that thread and generally in the logs ; it's "success" depends on the ignorance of the userbase, which is what separates very sharply the bitcoin "users" into republican and imperial sets. the latter have some dust and reddit.
ckang: i heard something the other day which may be of concern soon
ckang: but a CPA was sent a letter asking him to report any clients he had who dealt with crypto
ckang: yea he just got it last week
ckang: was it published anywhere yet?
ckang: if not i can see if he will scan it
a111: Logged on 2018-04-09 15:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there was also that hellvig lawsuit (which afaik went exactly the same place all other "rule of law" challenges to notes-from-stalin ever went)
mircea_popescu: ckang have him scan it ; qntra will want to publish it, if you don't break down and make a proper blog before that.
mircea_popescu: (do make a blog. it's an immensely important anchor for your online identity and the power you build on it)
ckang: but to beat a bully you need to be on a more level field
ckang: well he said he would be down to do it but he wanted to make sure it went to other CPAs also
ckang: so it cant be traced back to his firm if that makes sense
ckang: ill ask him next time i see him though
a111: Logged on 2017-08-29 01:02 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo do we have the famous pdf unicorn-coconut or whatever took to the inept competition instead of bringing to qntra, resulting in a jail term for her ?
mircea_popescu: back when some imbecile went to fake news media rather than coming to qntra, got sent to jail for it, STILL did not admit there exists no media online besides qntra.
☟︎☟︎ ckang: mircea_popescu: yea hes a sharp guy but i dont want to pressure him into anything uncomfortable, him mentioning it though was the first i heard of these letters being mass mailed
mircea_popescu: it's still on my fucking liver, that episode. so whistleblower goes to "media", they publish her fucking pdfs with the yellow dots untouched, she gets sent to jail, at which point the ENTIRE fucking faux establishment somehow still does not end. how thje fuck!
ckang: im sure places like coinbase are going to be the the more important things they would worry about
ckang: who would tell their cpa about crypto holdings anyways lol
mircea_popescu: hey, i moved enough paper money into argentina to ruin its government a few years ago. they can worry until they fucking fall over for all the good it's gonna do them.
mircea_popescu: for all practical purposes money is now outside of the control of fiat pretend-sovereigns.
ckang: yea, curious how much loss of wealth will be reported this year sorta
ckang: the folks that refinanced their houses at 19k
ckang: and decided to go all in
ckang: probably not super common but theres stories of it i see popping up here and there
mircea_popescu: ckang amusingly, selling us based real estate on the market and buying bitcoin at 20k is not actually a bad deal. even with bitcoin at 7k now.
mircea_popescu: consider a simple example : you get divorced. or arrested. or "suspected" of "crime". what's the real estate you "owned" worth now ?
mircea_popescu: because teh bitcoin ain't going anywhere, the "judge" can hold his breath until he's done dicking about.
ckang: yea thats true, you can literally take it to your grave
ckang: unlike anything else
mircea_popescu: the fantasy the empire is living is that "nobody can be poor enough to starve". the only meaning of which is, "nobody can have any incentive to hold anything besides bitcoin".
ckang: anything material has to be thrown out, sold, etc...
mircea_popescu: quite a lulzy implementation of the whole "do not build yourself perishable treasures" meme.
ckang: heh not familiar with that one
mircea_popescu: really ? it's the cornerstone of "protestant" ideology.
ckang: im not well read in theology by any means
ckang: i just know that they are christian
mircea_popescu: so you never heard of "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal." and all that ?
ckang: ive mostly just lived under the "cant take it to the grave or regret it when dead" idea
mircea_popescu: technically bitcoin you can't take to grave either, the passive result of dead keys is a slight increase in the value of circulating bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: but whether this properly means you have taken it or you haven't taken it is very much an open question of metaphysics, "what is the meaning of taking".
ckang: it would take too long to brute force it though
ckang: has there been any studies done on that?
mircea_popescu: ckang the idea isn't you bruteforce it, the idea is that in between world A, where 100 people living have 1 btc each, and world A', where 99 people living and 1 person dead have 1 bitcoin each, is that the apparent value of the bitcoin will be 101% in A` vs A.
ckang: hmm yea, true, didnt think about it from that angle
ckang: i mean with enough clockcycles anything can be brute forced
ckang: its just on what timescale
mircea_popescu: ckang the timescale involved in bruteforcing a bitcoin address exceeds the computable capacity of an alternate universe in which every single atom extant would be part of an ideal processor working at it.
mircea_popescu: in other words : it will never happen, the world ends first.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 01:20 lobbes: speed of implementation really (I got other tmsr irons in fire). I figured I could get a tickerbot up and running quicker just using a gribble instance >>
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-10#1795728 a111: Logged on 2018-04-03 18:39 mircea_popescu: lobbes the only important consideration here is that design is not a haphazard activity driven by occurence and circumstance. that's implementation. design is a deductive activity, it proceeds from first principles and does not break faith.
ckang: yea thats why i was just wondering if anyone has done a paper about it ;)
ckang: just thought it would be a fun read
mircea_popescu: ckang it's one of the things people do for their own satisfaction, but your question isn't without marrow. let's see here...
ckang: the scaling comparisons i like for some reason
ckang: like you can fit X somethings in a Y
ckang: that just show the magnitude of something
ckang: oh wow, ive never seen it broken down like that
ckang: i didnd even know base58 was a thing
mircea_popescu: the proper formula is : address = ripemd160(sha256(secret)). to go from an address to its corresponding private key (which is what "bruteforce" requires in this context) you'd have to reverse a ripemd160 and a sha256 op.
ckang: sounds like a good research paper for some mathematics major ;)
ckang: thesis or something
mircea_popescu: there's also some ecdsa involved, but that's cryptographically less valuable.
mircea_popescu: but, for the expert minds tuned in : ckang 's question does not, as we currently stand, have a published canonical answer i can link him to. if you write it, i will link it next time someone asks.
mircea_popescu: ckang for an ad-hoc illustration : admitting that you own sunway taihulight (the chinese supercomputer discussed in
http://trilema.com/2017/resplenduminous/ ), which does something like 9.3 * 10^16 flops ; and admitting you take 1 flop to generate a key (it's more like 150-200 irl, but w/e) and 0 time to check for its correctness, then you could expect a correct guess about once every 51948826585749897379957793229925273575140
mircea_popescu: this is roughly speaking 376440772360506502753317342245835 times the age of our present universe (the big bang having taken place 13.8 or so billion years ago).
ckang: hah, yea thats hard to comprehend
mircea_popescu: (which goes back to a long held asciilifeform notion, of "mining is a bug" -- certainly, but looky here : mining is also the direct result of "i want a shunt for the bruteforce, so i can say to people, "x is cheaper therefore y won't happen")
ckang: that can use any openssl algorithm, I believe..
ckang: the pdf goes a lot deeper but there some info on the site
ckang: ah this, is what i was looking for
mircea_popescu: the fundamental problem with formal verification is that it's not currently implemented seriously (which is to say -- completely, on small codebases). it's just machines poking at things generally, in an untenable theoretical model.
mircea_popescu: consequently, as a broad field, it doesn't hold much interest here.
ckang: its pretty interesting though if you need such a thing
ckang: 4000 LOC (not including openssl)
ckang: sure was just curious since it was crypto related and you guys seem to know your stuff there
ckang: ive been using it for some time and its been super solid, i just didnt know how strong it was from the cryptography side of things
ckang: ive pushed 2TB though a tunnel before i rebooted the router for updates
mircea_popescu: the claim is "The following protocols and primitives are used: ChaCha20 for symmetric encryption, authenticated with Poly1305, using RFC7539's AEAD construction; Curve25519 for ECDH; BLAKE2s for hashing and keyed hashing, described in RFC7693; SipHash24 for hashtable keys; HKDF for key derivation, as described in RFC5869"
ckang: that stuff to a layman like myself goes right over my head ;)
mircea_popescu: ckang you can read up on all the crypto functions, be they trapdoors or whatever, if you are interested. it's not illegible arcana.
☟︎ ckang: this is what got me interested, can push a ton more data and with less latency on the same hardware vs. openvpn
☟︎ ckang: theres mesh capability but ive not delved into that much yet
mircea_popescu: "<mircea_popescu> (on #wireguard) zx2c4 (the owner, j. donenfeld) : if you're willing to set two hours apart on any day of your choosing to answer wireguard questions on #trilema, i'm willing to donate 1 btc to your project. let me know, i'm usually on freenode (this nick). thanks & gl." << asciilifeform spyked whoever else might care.
☟︎ ckang: yea, thats awesome, hopefully he takes you up on that
mircea_popescu: ckang you know the ancient story of how openbsd got saved from death ? it was eerily similar.
ckang: the project has a lot of potential, its just not well known so providers arent selling it to the general masses
mircea_popescu: i guess. on a superficial look it's certainly better than whatever tls bs.
☟︎ ckang: mullvad does offer it and its pretty good through them, I lose about 2Mbit off my top end and and only gain 2ms when pinging 'google.com' (hard to do this test since geography and routing)
mircea_popescu: ckang feel free to idle there, smooth things over if need be.
ckang: sure thing yea, didn't think to check if they had a channel before
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 04:12 ckang: this is what got me interested, can push a ton more data and with less latency on the same hardware vs. openvpn
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 04:11 mircea_popescu: ckang you can read up on all the crypto functions, be they trapdoors or whatever, if you are interested. it's not illegible arcana.
ckang: can you summarize that down to: 'it sucks' 'indifferent' 'has a future' ;)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i know, but prepare a list of q's for when/if the guy shows up.
ckang: im not sure how to interpret what you are saying without knowing your opinions on those topics
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 04:19 mircea_popescu: i guess. on a superficial look it's certainly better than whatever tls bs.
mircea_popescu: there's a process we go through here, first the engineers throw a fit, then i pick up the pieces.
ckang: it is 'better' in same sense as ethereum 'better than' paypal <- so its slightly better than the worst? ;)
ckang: im hoping he finds the resources to get an iOS client done
ckang: for mobile applications this stuff makes a lot more sense
ckang: battery life and data wise
ckang: you dont need a continuous connection
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you mean gossipd ? how can it possibly displace something that doesn't even exist!
ckang: you can hop between various towers or APs seamlessly without re-authenticating
ckang: which takes a bit of time on openvpn
ckang: so assuming the applications timeout is set appropriately, its like what mosh is to ssh (wireguard to openvpn)
mircea_popescu: the only important question in computing is what i end up using anyway. to that standard, what difference could it possibly make.
ckang: showing how quickly it will close one tunnel and open up another
ckang: its faster than watch's 1s updates
ckang: yea but its nice to see in a working product that i can use now
ckang: its much lighter such that it can even be run on ARM routers
ckang: and not have super terrible performance
ckang: but rather a concern people had
ckang: there hasnt really been anything major in terms of flaws I could find.
ckang: but that could be because theres not large adoption of it
ckang: i just thought it was interesting for them to code protection in for such things
ckang: it increases the surface area
mircea_popescu: "It turns out that this strength might actually be a weakness for some. A small commercial VPN provider approached me recently about the fact they could see the allowed IPs mapping easily with WireGuard, whereas with OpenVPN it was hidden deep inside a process they didn't know how to debug. "Great," I thought. Not so fast. They were concerned that when compelled to retrieve this kind of information, they would no longer be ab
mircea_popescu: le to claim, "we don't know how," since WireGuard makes it so easy. So, they hired me for a day to develop and open source a small solution for their unique use case and odd scenario." for lulz.
ckang: and entropy of someone find it
ckang: if you are a security researcher would your time be better spent on something that 1 person uses or 100million people use?
ckang: im talking about it from that perspective
ckang: which is also a blessing because the government probably hasn't researched how to break it either
mircea_popescu: ckang why do you expect the usercount makes a difference ?
ckang: mircea_popescu: it doesnt really in how secure something is
mircea_popescu: generally, more thought is given to the design of airplane cockpits than of women's shoes, notwithstanding more women wear shoes than fly airplanes.
ckang: but does in terms of how many eyes and fingers are trying to break it
ckang: and with enough resources and time (similar to the brute-forcing), anything can come up
mircea_popescu: the anything is not a correct symbol. it's an approximation, and it only holds up in domains of little interest.
ckang: yea im not thinking in absolutes
mircea_popescu: this expectation that "if i go out to clubs enough, eventually i'll meet guyneviere" is fundamentally broken -- the slut's dead.
mircea_popescu adds "Gwenhwyfar ferch Ogrfan Gawr drwg yn fechan, gwaeth yn fawr." to the public record, now we even have welsh rhyming slang in here!
lobbes: I certainly wasn't planning on it being a long-term solution, but I see what you mean. Plus, if I'm burning time anyways on this I may as well just learn some lisp and use the trinquebot. Have an actual republican item out of the effort rather than another pile of stapled dildos >>
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796013 ☝︎ ckang: !!up kittycollector
deedbot: kittycollector voiced for 30 minutes.
ckang: i have one if you are interested mircea_popescu
ckang: ya just wait around ill ping u if he comes back
lobbes: !!v C2A2518901C3C94171AB952EFDDE5C7484FF9FBF648E6A737C91D009CEF1EC47
deedbot: Invoiced ben_vulpes 0.0547 << Samsung 860 EVO 1TB 2.5 Inch SATA III Internal SSD (2018-04-11)
lobbes: ^ using vwap of 6826.05 from nanotube's gribble
lobbes: !!v FA59360A7EF0C7AC5A3482E3325AC191ECAB223AC75715661699A7551035E23D
lobbes: ^ que pasa contigo, shinohai? There's a way to step back gracefully that would preserve your solid reputation, but abandoning your post ain't that way.
☟︎ ckang: how are the 860s over the 850?
lobbes: no idea! wasn't for me
lobbes: sadly, all my ssds are non-samsung
ckang: ah its pretty much the only brand ive stuck with
lobbes: yeah, I've heard it is the best
ckang: but in terms of reliablity i have had better luck with spinning rust
ckang: ultrastars, bulletproof
lobbes: that also lines up with what I've learned thus far: hdd - reliability, ssd - speed
lobbes: ssd, for example, is pretty much necessary for trb nodes to not fall behind.
deedbot: kittycollector voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: zezizezi voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: avgjoe voiced for 30 minutes.
avgjoe: interested in running trb
avgjoe: no, just concerns about investing time setup it and being able to use it in the future
avgjoe: bech32 addresses, how the node behave?
avgjoe: i suppose that is a noob question, but if someone send me btc from a bech32 address to my trb legacy address, does the node ignore the tx?
avgjoe: so there will never be a double standard with "tier 1 bitcoins" stored in legacy addresses and tier 2 stored in bech addresses, correct?
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's a lot for you to read wrt to why specifically segwit is a usg-driven attack against bitcoin, and not supported by the bitcoin foundation. perhaps the recent
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1795944 is a good starting point ; but generally the logs are your friends, search them.
☝︎ mircea_popescu: avgjoe there already is a double standard : 1address bitcoin are bitcoin ; everything else is usg-crap.
mircea_popescu: do not expect time/effort invested in usg-crap will yield anyhthing but tears for you.
mircea_popescu: all segwit coins are going to be eventually unwound. this is again intentional, and not likely to change.
mircea_popescu: running trb offers a firm guarantee that you will have your coins perpetually. running the various usg-sponsored "i can't believe it's not bitcoin" margerine offers a firm guarantee that a) any time you spend with them will be wasted on a long enough timeline and b) any resources you spend with them will be worthless on a long enough timeline. so bear that in mind.
avgjoe: thanks for the segwit discussion, i have just looked in the logs for "bech32" and it outputs very little
a111: Logged on 2017-08-11 17:52 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the substantial weakness segwit adds to bitcoin chain security is that witout it, one needs the power to unwind the chain AND the keys of old txn to steal bitcoin. whereas with it, one only needs the hash power, as anyone can spend the segwit shit.
avgjoe: Basically segwit it could be reprhased as the "i'm a good politician that will enforce the ---good--- policy but to enforce this i'll need to take some of your sovereignty (keys), but bear with me, hashrate is gonna protect you"
☟︎ avgjoe: sorry for the english, trying to understand if i'm getting the point correctly
spyked:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796067 <-- grrr, I lack too many includes to engage in a proper discussion on this. and sifting through the papers puts me into a rabbit hole of deeper and deeper includes and, frustratingly, unresolved medicine tactics. and I've wandered through such rabbit holes for the last 4 years.
☝︎☟︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 04:16 mircea_popescu: "<mircea_popescu> (on #wireguard) zx2c4 (the owner, j. donenfeld) : if you're willing to set two hours apart on any day of your choosing to answer wireguard questions on #trilema, i'm willing to donate 1 btc to your project. let me know, i'm usually on freenode (this nick). thanks & gl." << asciilifeform spyked whoever else might care.
spyked: anyway, I'd be happy to read a version of
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796038 (or better yet, a blog post/series) that explicitly references or otherwise explains all the priors and provides an actual proof, not just "we model this in tamarin, gtfo, install it and read the proof it generates". I want to be able to find out precisely what "symbolic reasoning/analysis" means in their universe, wtf is a "message deduction theory"
☝︎☟︎ spyked: etc. otherwise this all looks like word salad.
☟︎ spyked: ^ also probably relevant discussion
shinohai:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796166 <<< I think the time for grace has passed, and if it isn't clear enough already I won't be wasting anymore time participating in Republican affairs since obviously I have nothing else to contribute. I did, in fact, offer to help you add the gribble functions to your bot or share my version of the plugins (Which incidentally, don't require any of the stuff you
☝︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 06:07 lobbes: ^ que pasa contigo, shinohai? There's a way to step back gracefully that would preserve your solid reputation, but abandoning your post ain't that way.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-10 19:00 lobbes: I attempted to slap a gribble instance up on pizarro shell last night, but hit a roadblock trying to get 'tcl' working locally (sqlite3 makefile, which gribble depends on, will not run without tcl apparently)
shinohai: Espero que ahora si entiendes muy claro "Lo que esta pasando conmigo".
☟︎ mod6: Thanks for your patience with me this past year, #trilema. It's been a long one.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 10:07 spyked:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796067 <-- grrr, I lack too many includes to engage in a proper discussion on this. and sifting through the papers puts me into a rabbit hole of deeper and deeper includes and, frustratingly, unresolved medicine tactics. and I've wandered through such rabbit holes for the last 4 years.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 10:14 spyked: anyway, I'd be happy to read a version of
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796038 (or better yet, a blog post/series) that explicitly references or otherwise explains all the priors and provides an actual proof, not just "we model this in tamarin, gtfo, install it and read the proof it generates". I want to be able to find out precisely what "symbolic reasoning/analysis" means in their universe, wtf is a "message deduction theory"
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 10:14 spyked: etc. otherwise this all looks like word salad.
spyked: aha. I would add that I for one would gladly read even informal, less rigorous proofs, provided they helped me understand the protocol and the underlying knowledge. also am ok with "this automated thing is the mobility aid we use for the brain, and it works this way"; (and ftr, I looked over the tamarin and got stuck "symbolic model" and other obscure terms).
spyked: but as it is, I could only ask stupid questions such as "what's wrong with modelling this using petri nets". or any other simpler method.
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 12:02 asciilifeform: the other lul in the 'noise protocol' is the use of symmetric ciphers
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 12:07 asciilifeform: the 'noise protocol' link is hilarious -- even features the classic leper's bell of nsa committee , the null-cipher
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 10:40 shinohai: Espero que ahora si entiendes muy claro "Lo que esta pasando conmigo".
spyked: asciilifeform, indeed. I inevitably got reminded of the noise thread when stumbling upon: "WireGuard, the secure network tunnel, uses an interesting Diffie-Hellman authenticated key exchange protocol based on NoiseIK, [...]". so. yeah, "interesting" indeed.
spyked: anyway, I can see mircea_popescu's point re "but unlike gossipd, this broken implementation exists!". but unlike, say, Bitcoin, which, broken implementations or not, I can understand by going to the sources, this I can't, at least not without getting myself deep into the slime pit.
☟︎ mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796214 << yes, except for the part where "hashrate is gonna protect you". the whole POINT of taking some of the information OUT of the blockchain is to try and reduce the protection of hashrate, and make everyone dependent on protection by non-hashrate. which is WHY this is usg move against bitcoin. i don't need no stinking fuckwit to "help me", and i don't care why he thinks i do. i know wh
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 08:11 avgjoe: Basically segwit it could be reprhased as the "i'm a good politician that will enforce the ---good--- policy but to enforce this i'll need to take some of your sovereignty (keys), but bear with me, hashrate is gonna protect you"
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 10:07 spyked:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796067 <-- grrr, I lack too many includes to engage in a proper discussion on this. and sifting through the papers puts me into a rabbit hole of deeper and deeper includes and, frustratingly, unresolved medicine tactics. and I've wandered through such rabbit holes for the last 4 years.
mircea_popescu: trade wars, dood, the first step of "governments" coming to terms with malthusian shock (also known as "when the ideology of abundance runs ashore on the jagged rocks of reality")
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 10:39 shinohai:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796166 <<< I think the time for grace has passed, and if it isn't clear enough already I won't be wasting anymore time participating in Republican affairs since obviously I have nothing else to contribute. I did, in fact, offer to help you add the gribble functions to your bot or share my version of the plugins (Which incidentally, don't require any of the stuff you
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 14:26 spyked: but as it is, I could only ask stupid questions such as "what's wrong with modelling this using petri nets". or any other simpler method.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 21:30 mircea_popescu: here's a problem i perceive phf : you could guess about log(n) of my understanding of various things that interest me on the basis of reading trilema ; i could not guess epsilon of thge say your understanding of sbcl on the basis of reading whatever you provide voluntarily. i could glean it from this kind of interaction, but here's what that means :
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760839 mircea_popescu: by forcing an answer to a question you're not in a position to answer ("is this useful y/n") you end up baking incorrectness into your tree, which then can be relied on by further incorrectness coming down the line for support.
mircea_popescu: and the issue repeats with questions, "i don't know what question to ask such that the response puts me in full control of everything" is not a valid mapping for "i don't know what questions to ask". you've seen me n times ask questions ~about the thing~, ie, to allow the thing to be illuminated, irrespective of whether they "help" me to anything. cuz i don't care about myself ~in this sense~. i care about myself in the other
mircea_popescu: sense, the sense whereby the enemy can't rely on freinds within the walls.
mircea_popescu: now, it's evident where this misrepresentation of intellectual process comes from -- the inept notion of caregivers kid should be "responsible". kid shouldn't be nor is responsible in that sense ; if one of my girls sets the house on fire through unforeseen effect of reasonable application of item, she may feel guilty as a residual side effect of the sexual abuse her parents and broader society put her through, but she won't
mircea_popescu: also, if nuclear weapons ended the world in 1970 ~good for them~, and if the supercollider "ended reality" in the 2010s (as various imbeciles proposed as a valid reason "not to do it" all over the oh-so-useful-and-valuable "science press"), GOOD FOR IT.
mircea_popescu: it is not written upon reality that it must endure forever, let it mind it's own fucking affairs and endure if it has the mettle ; nor was any penguin born with a certified license to eternal life. let them learn how to forge and fire cannon or let them get the fuck off the evolutionary tree.
mircea_popescu: and in general, the cockcages are optional, even if misrepresented as mandatory by mommy.
BingoBoingo: The strongest cockcage is the one that lives in the redditard hea
mircea_popescu: and now i can't fucking find the core reference of this discussion, whether it was on trilema or in the log i don't remember, but it examined how would i have evaluated the eventual utility of $item at early stage, and made the point indeed very well.
mircea_popescu: notrly. that's kinda the problem, lotta good stuff kinda-related, but there was one specific fucking item.
mircea_popescu: i need better indexing, and i don't know how the fuck to make it ;/
BingoBoingo: Right, even a classic algo strictly Pagerank google whitelisted to the WoT still wouldn't grep with nuance
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 12:07 asciilifeform: the 'noise protocol' link is hilarious -- even features the classic leper's bell of nsa committee , the null-cipher
mircea_popescu: if such a rifle could be made, the us would have made it. physics got in their way.
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's evidently a pile of very simple and very useful questions to ask. "Why not send the time ?".
BingoBoingo: In other news after spending a Uruguayo/a free night slaying the Inca in bed my mood is not quite so dismal. As long as there's no "want of a nail" cascades alf shouldn't be greeted by Eeyore. This still does nothing to solve the indexing problem.
mircea_popescu: what the fuck do i care "what it all means in the end". let the end fucking care. and how the hell could any process baked in "$the end". imagine if there was a language which required as part of any function call the exit code of the program. wut ?!
mircea_popescu: (and this is no small matter, the current principal driver of pantsuit popularity among the not-retarded set is exactly this : their dumb mother told them when they were wee kids that they must have the exit code for any function call, and they never examined the idiotic outpour of the useless dumb whore, so there they sit today, unable to act unless some replicant of the original dumb whore whispers in their ear "all is well
mircea_popescu: " so they can put that putative exit code into their function calls and function. what the fuck!)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, that's not even such a bad rule, force escalation. "you got into a mess on your own power, you are forbidden using your own power again until someone else who knows wtf they're doing PUTS YOU IN A DIFFERENT SITUATION".
mircea_popescu: let them be both picked by cranes and moved at great expense.
mircea_popescu: sokoban is actually a great item because it correctly exposes a primitive -- not of "social discouse" or w/e the fuck, an actual item of reality.
mircea_popescu: it's in this sense an important game in a way doom or warcraft 2 or w/e are not.
deedbot: kittycollector voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so what are you beefing over, you got a bot, have it translate.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 14:55 spyked: anyway, I can see mircea_popescu's point re "but unlike gossipd, this broken implementation exists!". but unlike, say, Bitcoin, which, broken implementations or not, I can understand by going to the sources, this I can't, at least not without getting myself deep into the slime pit.
deedbot: heyleeecx voiced for 30 minutes.
heyleeecx: im here to show my tits apparently cx
mod6: asciilifeform does have a lot on his plate. maybe one of the newer gentlemen want to try their hand at a bot.
phf: asciilifeform: don't need google translate for that one, can just use btcbase :p
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo doesn't she want titmoney ? << Maybe? I am inclined to wait until she tires of paying for things to present the opportunity or I get bored. She's español as a single language and does not understand technology.
deedbot: 2FD0EEEC595AE266F3DFDED3BF9FF1C7D1A9EF2E registered as heyleeecx.
douchebag: mircea_popescu: I told this girl to use an actual wallet this time and not one of those bullshit ones :D
phf: asciilifeform: i'm just making sure the new feature is sufficiently advertised
phf: the recommended videos for that arcade sokoban reminded me that there used to be a unix bomberman clone, that had multiplayer implemented by connecting to multiple x11 servers and having each window/connection be a separate player. we used to spend nights at moscow state unix room playing that thing on a local lan
phf: i'm surprised how little mention of it is on the internet. i guess the peculiar multiplayer mode means that it could only be popular in a very few places
phf: and tbf it was rapidly replaced by quake1, once the engine was released in 99. i'm pretty msu had own port going, because the graybeards (i.e. 22 year old grad students) would sometimes patch things overnight when we ran into bugs
heyleeecx: I messed up the first time and had to re write it oopsie!
heyleeecx: oh noeeez! i was writing upside down and made an accident
deedbot: heyleeecx voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: so what do you make, other than accidents, heyleeecx ?
douchebag: more accidents, it's my life story basically
douchebag: im just glad i get out of this shithole in less than two months
heyleeecx: not right now im still deciding what I want to do with the rest of my life, it's a LOTTT of pressure thats been bothering me for awhile
heyleeecx: i think psychology would be cool but i dont know if i would be able to handle all of the college stuff
heyleeecx: i love cooking and trying new foods for myself but i have worked at restaurants before and hated it
mircea_popescu: yes, but if you don't work and if you don't study, how do you obtain the things that you eat.
deedbot: kittycollector voiced for 30 minutes.
kittycollector: Hi mircea_popescu - very sorry I sat down to only a second and ended up falling asleep on the couch 😪
kittycollector: Sorry phone, I took it this morning if you wanted it still.
kittycollector: Again I appologize, I didn't mean for it to happen. Have a break at work now.
kittycollector: But would own more if I could, maybe getting a 2nd this summer.
kittycollector: Growing up we've always had 2, I think they keep each other entertained.
kittycollector: I haven't, seems like its a touchy area at the moment though.
mircea_popescu: i think istanbul is actually the terran capitol of catempire.
kittycollector: I dont foresee myself traveling over there any time soon.
BingoBoingo: The outdoor cats here are too docile. No OG barncats murdering the shit out of nature here. Sure there's some cats, but there's no fear in the local pigeons
kittycollector: I don't think mine could survive outside at this point
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, living with parents is not healthy, heyleeecx
BingoBoingo: Eh, get him a couple pet hamsters. That'll get the cat healthier.
BingoBoingo: Wait, are trying to take over or carve out a safe space to act with impunity? I guess really there isn't a difference.
heyleeecx: i want to move but i dont know what to do with my life
deedbot: heyleeecx voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: kittycollector voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: heyleeecx yes, but the problem is likely that you overvalue yourself. which is why all the " LOTTT of pressure" and bs.
mircea_popescu: it's hard, you know, middle class parents keep telling girlie she's valuable and important and in charge and whatnot, when none of those are the case. then as adolescence is drawing to an end, all those kited checks of "safety" and "better not have unprotected sex with random people if you're not 100% sure they know your name" come to be paid and well... there's nothing to pay them with.
deedbot: heyleeecx voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: heyleeecx think about it : you spent however long, 20 years doing what your parents told you, and what's it got you ? a lot of pressure ? the sad situation where you don't know what to do with yourself ?
mircea_popescu: gotta cut your losses and move on SOMETIME. they were wrong, because stupid&pretentious, forget the whole pile of nonsense and try something else.
heyleeecx: i just dont really have skills that would make me successful i feel
BingoBoingo: Successful's and outcome of doing, and doing is the only way to build skills
heyleeecx: where do I start??? right now I have nothing
mircea_popescu: go to the closest highway, preferably wearing shoes only, and see who wants to give you a ride. that's where you start. where do you want to start ffs.
heyleeecx: i dont think i want to be a prostitute
mircea_popescu: but nobody asked you what you want. your entire problem is you keep positing what you want matters any.
heyleeecx: i want to find something i am good at to find success in life
mircea_popescu: asshole "parents" ie child molesters living a century prior at least had the common decency to create a security plan for their fucktoys. yes they kept the "lady" girlies in a cage their whole life, but then also had an entire system whereby someone would come along and marry them.
mircea_popescu: nowadays, they still do the molestation like then, but they've done away with the golden net. outright fucking obscene.
mircea_popescu: heyleeecx this whole "something i'm good at" is fairytale dust, they took the "prince charming" item and translated it for the "empowered, hear her roar" girly. now you gotta find a prince-charming-thingtodo ? gimme a break.
mircea_popescu: there's no such thing, as there never was such a thing.
heyleeecx: so you are saying just find a good husband?
mircea_popescu: no. i am saying get over yourself, be a truckstop hooker for a few years until the middle class is washed out of your hair, then do what can be done.
heyleeecx: i dont want to go to jail for being a hooker
BingoBoingo: heyleeecx: Plenty of places where it's legal
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's just enough time left before the middle class extinction event that by the time you're coming out, the mass rape of all your sisters that "knew better" would just be getting underway. maybe you can even help one or two.
BingoBoingo: Anyways, fear of going to jail is a sign of already being in jail
BingoBoingo: The lulz are all in that first sentence: "A significant number of past and current cryptocurrency products contain a JavaScript class named SecureRandom(), containing both entropy collection and a PRNG."
mircea_popescu: "* don't take the output of a CSPRNG and pass it through RC4" should have been "don't whiten, fucktard"
heyleeecx: well thanks for all the advice but i have to run ttyl
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: These are blockchain.info style things where they market "all the crypto happens in your browser window"
mircea_popescu: sometimes i wonder how #trilema actually reads from the other side. "i'm a confused girly with adolescent tits and a pretty smile, did they just tell me to go hang naked by the highway ?!?!"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform my thoughts exactly. the swarm of idiots use non-qntra "press", get reality winnings, non-nsa entropy, get etc.
BingoBoingo: If someone want's to write up the failure, may be publishable, but I've got no angle for it other than repeating "stop hitting yourself"
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> in other noose, asciilifeform found that FG connects to rockchiptron with 10cent straight cable, sans usb << Rockchip workstation just became a lot more interesting
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: But unlike the rest, it managed to pass several rounds of the alf sniff test
mircea_popescu: yeah this is pretty interesting. should prolly fg the set.
mircea_popescu: by now this is an epic machine, are you kidding me, all sussman would have needed to make an ai
mircea_popescu: had sussman known how to make an ai in the first place.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-06 01:44 asciilifeform: in other noose, ~143MB/s avg. reads , ~33MB/s writes, on samsung usb3 stick ( vs ~20 / 15 on sd prior )
BingoBoingo: Now we just need a good source for rubidium clocks
mircea_popescu: i suppose i should have used minsky instead, sussman is a) still extant and b) kinda moved away from ai in the idyllic sense towards more practical applications IE SOLD OUT!
BingoBoingo: I see no need at present. I just imagine ways the board could be pimped. Since it lacks rtc clock, why not go for great rtc clock in Rockchip workstation spec.
mircea_popescu: anyway, anyone wrote a good post mortem for the self-replicating neural network ? i mean, hal 9000 and all that bs, iue fictional retellings. but the actual story ? no interest among the science-fiction set ?
shinohai: ah kk, I have opportunity to purchase new equipment ... would like an arm device to gentoo
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you recall, the thing that got all the inept "science" press hot and bothered in the 80s, and nosnense such as hal 9000 / space odissey etc (ie, the first iteration of "lesswrong" wankery) was a demonstration by sussman & goode that "you can have artificial brains growing in the same way as real ones", ie, neural networks that algorithmically expand
mircea_popescu: obviously, the fiction wank is just the same item cycled. but there was a. .. science-fashionabilia in the 80s.
shinohai: I prefer mail order for stuffs, besides craigslist finds.
shinohai: got the Signstek TL866CS so I assume will work
shinohai: I dont want to bring the old bot back tbh, new one isn't finished. But will log into shell and restart for the 500th time shortly
shinohai: shinohai plans on doing same things he always does anyway, with or without here.
mircea_popescu: i have special electrics installed in cars to power laptops.
mircea_popescu: we spit on laptopism for some reason we spit on motherhood : to avoid naive heyleeecxen from getting stuck in the glue trap.
ben_vulpes: lobbes: didn't you have a simple process-restarter?
shinohai: Don't want to use process restarter on this box ben_vulpes ... if it goes down I'd rather know why. I don't really trust atlantic anymore tbh
shinohai: In fact, I was the one that recommended a solution to lobbes, re: process restarting.
ben_vulpes: shinohai: why does it go down, typicallY/
shinohai: I seem to have acquired a fan that likes pinging it to death or something. Got to read logs deeper
mircea_popescu: but since i've mentioned good, let it be stated that "Let an ultraintelligent machine be defined as a machine that can far surpass all the intellectual activities of any man however clever. Since the design of machines is one of these intellectual activities, an ultraintelligent machine could design even better machines; there would then unquestionably be an 'intelligence explosion,'" is a self-contradictory definition, entir
mircea_popescu: ely equivalent to "let an ultralarge integer be defined as that integer which is larger than all irrational numbers."
mircea_popescu: no such thing can exist, on either score, and for the same reasons.
lobbes: Re: process restarter, I ended up using a method trinque suggested (in logs somewhere but no time to dig): essentially the bot gets started as a child process to the parent proccess
lobbes: Was simple few lines of bash iirc
deedbot: maximian voiced for 30 minutes.
maximian: so I’ve been out of the loop for a long time
maximian: after S.DICE, I just went into HODL mode and have been mostly enjoying the runup in BTC price
mircea_popescu: well, proxies went away recently ; working on getting some back for teh ppls.
maximian: cool… so it’s not actually dead?
mircea_popescu: read the logs, too. a lot of better stuff than just hodling.
trinque: mircea_popescu: still doesn't want to talk to me on either
mircea_popescu: in more upbeat news, homemade mango-ginger gelatto with shaved 100% costa rican chocolate atop. my diet is progressing wonderfully.
deedbot: saturn_ voiced for 30 minutes.
saturn_: im here to show my tits hehe
douchebag: mircea_popescu is the man who handles that
deedbot: 8F578B57149263815191B121BE2B714B46966398 registered as saturn_.
spyked: owow, that was 2016. took me a year to /join. :\
spyked: at some point I should write about how I stumbled upon Loper OS and got pissed off at all computing and started reading the (at the time #b-a) logs. spoiler alert: I was not in ro at the time, but stuck in "civilized" country, which made me even more furious.
deedbot: saturn_ voiced for 30 minutes.
spyked: the more civilized (i.e. fulla overeducated shitheads, to quote zappa) the country, the greater the fury.
mircea_popescu: someone should do a complete zappa colection, incidentally. he's one of the few worthy of the naggum treatment.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in fetlife lulz, "<title>503 All backends failed or unhealthy</title>"
shinohai: Ye fucked their asses all out the first 2 times I woulda have thought.
trinque: mircea_popescu: ohey it works now
spyked: yeah, zappa is famous among others for having written some of the "most difficult to interpret songs ever". he then started arranging for sequenced instruments (e.g. synclavier), which rendered the whole idea of "difficult to interpret" useless. e.g.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSAd6pC633A (late? baroque compositions arranged for synclavier)
spyked:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796265 <-- hey, no stress at all, I (out of curiosity) explored the verification $thing down to the 2nd level of "rabbit hole" and found nothing there worth being scrutinized. going deeper might reveal some questions, but I'm not gonna go sharpen the machete for "crypto protocols" jungle just to get there.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 15:38 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796216 << the whole thing is phrased as "asking questions". one can never be in a rabbit hole so deep they can't ask questions. it's not your job to make any determination, so why stress.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 15:47 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796242 << this is a problem of how you phrase your questions. see, the fundamental, and apparently enduring, cockroach here is that you have an "in-control" mental model you won't diverge from, and it is disabling for your mental process in the following way : you judge "you can't contribute" arbitrarily, and damagingly, in the exact sense contemplated in
http://trilema.com/2014/a-conceit-or a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 04:43 mircea_popescu: and do me a favour -- not in this lambasting tone!
douchebag: how much data can be storn in QR codes?
trinque: douchebag: I forget the actual limit, but can always break it up into multiple
a111: Logged on 2017-06-01 18:14 asciilifeform: a business card printed on a very spartan (100 'dpi' ) press , gives what, 350 x 200 b&w pixels ;
trinque: douchebag: if you're wondering for the girls, pubkey ass tattoo is totally feasible
douchebag: ill tattoo a QR code on my ass if a BTC reward is involved + tattoo costs
deedbot: saturn_ voiced for 30 minutes.
saturn_: roomates were bothering me!
douchebag: 2015 +mircea_popescu │ heya saturn_ │ _whitelogger
douchebag: 2015 +mircea_popescu │ adcebee7 │ candi_lustt
douchebag: my client is weird when it comes to that
trinque: iirc one time I pasted an e-mail to my dad in here