log
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ben_vulpes bbl
mod6: jurov: just as a reminder, http://deedbot.org/bundle-526308.txt
mod6: new borsec is here! all six bottles intact this time.
mod6: ftw
phf: further kommunity conversation on reproducible builds https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/757118/f2f894279576c348/
asciilifeform: 'In the tricky middle ground of 95-96%, his position would depend on why builds were non-reproducible, as there are a few valid reasons for this to happen. In response to another question, he said that two good reasons for a non-reproducible build were packages that build inside their own virtual machine, such as Emacs, and security packages with signing keys such as secure boot. ' << lolwaaat
asciilifeform: Valid Reasons (tm)(r) didjaknow.
phf: how does that go, the hole through which the night comes
asciilifeform: btw as soon as ave1 fully pins down his gnat, 1st order of biznis is the burning out with hot irons of all timestampism and misc crapola emitted into binaries
asciilifeform: whatever of these survives elf stripping, at the very least.
asciilifeform: also didjaknow! , 'Building everything from sources that one has hand-inspected is a solution to this, but it doesn't scale. Many of us aren't qualified to spot security weaknesses...' etc
phf: oh yeah that piece is full of gems like that
asciilifeform: 'Lamb referred to a build that had been made non-reproducible by a 15-digit random number that was generated during each build and baked into the resulting binary. It turned out that it was used as an OpenID secret, which meant that everyone running a given build of the software was using the same secret key.' << genius...
asciilifeform: 'Unix doesn't specify an order in which readdir() and listdir() should return the contents of a directory, so components can get built in an unpredictable order' << this is gonna need a cure.
asciilifeform: 'build that iterates over the keys of a Perl hash will have problems, since these elements are also returned in a variable order' << perlism has gotta go.
asciilifeform: pretty sure that gprbuild does not suffer from said idiocy, but this will have to be tested.
phf: hmm
asciilifeform: !!up LordMPofTMSR
deedbot: LordMPofTMSR voiced for 30 minutes.
LordMPofTMSR: freenanigans!
asciilifeform: oh hey he's logged in from orbital capsule again
phf: typically hashtables stay stable over invocations of same code, i wonder where randomness is even coming from
asciilifeform: phf: prolly from os/bitness/etc-dependent crapolade in tree rebalancer etc
phf: oh you know what never mind, reproducible here is of course across machines and such
asciilifeform: machines, time, phase of the moon, alignment of planets, sunspots
phf: in that case though any build process that relies on hashtables will fail
asciilifeform: on hashtables implemented by opentards at any rate
asciilifeform: btw phf i nominate you as the hero who will produce msdos gnat.
phf: heh, you really want it?
asciilifeform: ( dun have to run ~on~ msdos, tho that would be pure gold; but at least crosscompile to it )
asciilifeform: yes.
asciilifeform: a complete dos toolchain would rock unspeakably.
asciilifeform wonders what it'd take to put sbcl on dos.
phf: much hairy, unix.lisp, runtime, sbcl's new approach of doing every single bit of ffi by writing C function wrappers first
asciilifeform: i can picture.
phf: though it does run on windows..
asciilifeform: gnat also ( tho i confess, never tried )
phf: emacs still has msdos folder in tree, all the way to 26. i wonder if that still compiles, or the folder is a lie
asciilifeform: phf: i thought you had a working dos emacs..?
phf: asciilifeform: yeah, but of some significant vintage, i think it's either 21 or 22. i doubt 26 works, and i feel like i've seen "msdos no longer supported" changelog entries
asciilifeform: aa
deedbot: http://blog.esthlos.com/perls-before-swine/ << esthlos - Perls Before Swine
asciilifeform: esthlos: i had nfi these were ever hosted on lolcattube to begin with
asciilifeform: ( fwiw i have copy of the films , from decade+ ago , on cd )
asciilifeform: these are actually quite ancient, iirc early '80s performance given in house at hewlettpackard
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo seperating << it's sepArating
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1827930 << by now they're so fucking disgusting any form of conversation besides beating them black and blue and urinating on the remains is squarely outta da question. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 01:11 asciilifeform: Valid Reasons (tm)(r) didjaknow.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1827945 << "memory optimization" for one thing. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 01:22 phf: typically hashtables stay stable over invocations of same code, i wonder where randomness is even coming from
mircea_popescu: oh nm he says that literally the next line. sucks to be me!
mircea_popescu: lol perls.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in high performance pumps : https://78.media.tumblr.com/b9eb11a9d91de939222a03e9ba480023/tumblr_ozipxv48Er1tiw4aco1_500.gif
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-20#1827895 <- my (possibly naive) idea was to try first on conventional gentoo by recompiling with musltronic gcc what I need; asciilifeform perhaps knows upfront: would it work to (re-)emerge libs such as zlib and libmysqlclient using the musltronic-gcc? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-20 20:38 asciilifeform: earlier diana_coman requested conventional gentoo. what'll it be ?
diana_coman: esp libmysqlclient is potentially iffy because it has dependencies that go deeper but atm I don't know until I try it; unless someone else tried similar /knows better?
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-20#1827889 <- in short because existing machine is production environment, there are limits to doing experiments on it ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-20 20:33 ben_vulpes: diana_coman: why does it need to be wholly separate machine? i think something might have flown over my head
diana_coman: obviously, failing this first approach, next would be to get cuntoo on it and try it directly there; as per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-20#1827894 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-20 20:37 mircea_popescu: and so it is here : if gets away without cuntoo, will try, if not, with.
jurov: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1827925 << sent ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 00:25 mod6: jurov: just as a reminder, http://deedbot.org/bundle-526308.txt
diana_coman: I should add in case it's not clear that part of the reason for trying to do it starting from a conventional gentoo is that it gives a recipe to apply afterwards (if it works, obv) to current server too
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1827977 << 're-emerge' seems to imply systemwide ? you're more or less guaranteed a borked box, muslism has to be done either rotor-style (i.e. 100% user-local build of 1 proggy at a time) or systemwide ( trinque's cuntoo ), on account of the impossibility of cleanly linking glibc libs to musl proggy or vice versa ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 08:34 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-20#1827895 <- my (possibly naive) idea was to try first on conventional gentoo by recompiling with musltronic gcc what I need; asciilifeform perhaps knows upfront: would it work to (re-)emerge libs such as zlib and libmysqlclient using the musltronic-gcc?
diana_coman: I see; in that case it would seem cuntoo is needed then indeed
asciilifeform: diana_coman: if you were making simply a musltronic version of euloratron, it could be done rotor-style (buildroot env) . but sounds like you want cuntoo straight away.
asciilifeform: the go-to man is then trinque .
diana_coman: asciilifeform, it's unclear that a musltronic version of euloratron is in way easier to achieve atm because of dependencies
asciilifeform: diana_coman: hence why i said 'rotor buildroot env'
asciilifeform: i solved this same problem for trb -- i.e. building 100% musltronic proggy with '9000' deps , on a conventional box
asciilifeform: diana_coman: depending on how far cuntoo is from flight-readiness ( trinque , any idea ? ) this may be worth doing in your case
asciilifeform: mod6 is the one who 100% automated asciilifeform's rotor builder; you may want to use his model, ~iff~ waiting for cuntoo is not permissible
diana_coman: well, either there is cuntoo and then can try with it or there isn't, in which no choice apparently other than rotor buildroot style
asciilifeform: right
asciilifeform: of the mentioned libs, zlib is known to me to work under musltronic build; libmysqlclient i had not occasion to test
asciilifeform: it is my understanding that trinque has a quite complete list of what worx and what -- not; ping him when he wakes.
diana_coman: trinque, can you help re ^ ? (in short: need musltronic system, what can I do)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu had asked asciilifeform not to meddle in euolorological matters, so i'ma stop here, unless all of you somehow get stuck and he asks for specific puzzler to be sent to my operating table.
diana_coman: it's ok
asciilifeform: generally speaking unless one or moar of your deps is weird in the 'emacs' way (i.e. does something obscene with glibc-specific pheatures) it's a straight mechanical job, like rotor.
Mocky: I'm confused about trb rpc. Log search suggests for the first year+ of bitcoin foundation rpc was marked for death: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-28#1417175 but then there's dump / eat block based on rpc? Is this a new version of rpc, I don't see a new version announced on the mailing list. Can someone sum this up for me, I'm having trouble following the history. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-02-28 05:45 asciilifeform: it is to be amputated ~whole~. no motherfucking stumps.
asciilifeform: Mocky: the rpc thing is ugly and there were experiments re replacing it ( e.g. 'shiva', scheme interpreter bolted on to trb ) but this took a back seat to moar pressing matters ( control of memory footprint ; sane sync behaviour; coupla other items ) and to this day rpc is still there.
asciilifeform: Mocky: on the list of serious problems in trbworld, it ranked somewhere near bottom.
Mocky: ok, so looking for documentation on how to use: it still works like this: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/API_reference_(JSON-RPC)
trinque: diana_coman: I have updated the script you last tried, such that it again works. What I have not completed is the v-tree which is to replace imperial portage.
trinque: so if I were to upload the current version of the script for you, it would produce a system which is classical gentoo, my recipe, plus the musl and libressl overlays. this'd be what you'd get if you were hand-spinning own musl/libressl system.
trinque: let me know if you're interested in the script, and I'll be happy to upload. otherwise I'll hold off until done with the genesis.vpatch. what remains there is trimming the fat. the pile of ebuilds necessary to build a minimal userland is approx 4mb, though I can probably shave several mb of alternate versions of same ebuilds. then there's the profile directory, which contains environment settings pertinent
trinque: to particular hardware architectures, particular justwantedto variations like use of systemd or nsa.selinux, so on. the profile dir is about 20mb, so serious yak shaving needs to occur there. it's a task I've already done elsewhere (produced a minimal profile for an embedded system for printers recently), just needs to be done here.
trinque: if you choose to use the build without the vtronic portage, it will be feasible to transition the system once that is born.
trinque: that process will amount to setting an environment variable to direct emerge to use the /cuntoo/portage tree (and to designate /usr/portage as an overlay, if you'll be porting ebuilds from classical gentoo into cuntoo)
asciilifeform: Mocky: the definitive doc, unfortunately, is still the src .
asciilifeform: Mocky: i.e. http://btcbase.org/patches/makefiles/tree/bitcoin/src/bitcoinrpc.cpp
asciilifeform: !!up Fearful
deedbot: Fearful voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: Fearful: who goes there ?
Mocky: asciilifeform, thanks
asciilifeform: Mocky: trb , roughly speaking , is a legacy item, in the same way as the icbm targeting comp and similar. i.e. a museum piece that gotta be kept in working order, rather than 'sexy, new' thing bubbling with development
Mocky: understood
asciilifeform: Mocky: even quite small changes to trb, typically get months ( sometimes yrs.. ) of discussion, testing.
asciilifeform: Mocky: as you are prolly already beginning to understand from the l0gz, vtronics grew from trb work, which demanded 'measure not 7, but 7777 times, before cutting once', in the style of http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-15#922644 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-11-15 00:28 asciilifeform: one would read instructions. another, turn a wrench, whatever. third would check that 2 corresponds to 1. then, all three sign under that step in recipe.
Mocky: asciilifeform, yes. I'm still wrapping my head around v. My understanding is attaching name and trust to every patch with an explicit dependence tree and build order. But I've not grasped the details yet, or used except to build trb, or understood the src
Mocky: well not build order but patch ordering
asciilifeform: Mocky: not merely this. there is also a set of human-enforced conventions re: 'fits-in-head' of any proposed change.
asciilifeform: Mocky: the illustrative log hook is the story of polarbeard
asciilifeform: !#s polarbeard
a111: 288 results for "polarbeard", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=polarbeard
asciilifeform: fella had enthusiasm, even some talent, but could not grasp the essential idea that a patch gotta be compact and touch a strict and justifiable minimum count of moving parts
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu , in one of his essays, described how gurlz from nato reich who enlist in his harem sometimes suffer from the effects of fat-soluble poisons, which accumulated in their meat, as the fat burns up in exercise. there is a similar malady suffered by escapees from 'open sores' world on those occasions when they show up here. the toxins gotta work their way out.
asciilifeform: not errybody makes it to the other end .
asciilifeform: Mocky: to function as a troo vtronicist, gotta grasp the concept, described by e.g. dijkstra, that a line of code you have written is not an asset, but an expense. (specifically, an expense against the time budget of other thinking people, who must read and grasp what you have written. )
asciilifeform: Mocky: v rejects the traditional concept of 'merge'. therefore in order for a patch to continue through time, it must be not only correct, and simple not only to understand but to manually reintegrate ( see l0gz re 'regrind' ) .
asciilifeform: Mocky: the design of v is to give thoughtful, careful, honest folx , a sword with which to cut the sloppy, careless, and mendacious.
asciilifeform: Mocky: occasionally you will stumble across the latter's mangled bones, in the logz.
mircea_popescu: not "sometimes". every time.
asciilifeform: oh hah.
asciilifeform: Mocky: imho the best intro text re vtronics is still ben_vulpes's , http://cascadianhacker.com/07_v-tronics-101-a-gentle-introduction-to-the-most-serene-republic-of-bitcoins-cryptographically-backed-version-control-system
asciilifeform: Mocky: and the best 'intro course', is still to write, as exercise, your own implementation.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform, mod6 , phf , ben_vulpes , trinque , ( and several other folx, who are not here, flunked out ) , have done this.
Mocky: asciilifeform, re: rejects traditional concept of merge, to my eye this looks like 5 merges. are these non-traditional?
Mocky: http://btcbase.org/patches
asciilifeform: Mocky: 'merging' is done by hand.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1827994 << yes but this won't likely work here ; the dependency tree is like 10x trb's. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 12:37 asciilifeform: i solved this same problem for trb -- i.e. building 100% musltronic proggy with '9000' deps , on a conventional box
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the main q is not re how many, but whether there is an 'emacs'-like boojum among'em. buildroot will just as happily build 9000 deps as 1.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1827999 << a static mysql would be a thing in and of itself! could go in mp-wp too! ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 12:45 asciilifeform: of the mentioned libs, zlib is known to me to work under musltronic build; libmysqlclient i had not occasion to test
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the above named promises to be, very much so.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: prolly you oughta test this experimentally, might be pleasantly surprised.
mircea_popescu: yes, it's getting done.
mircea_popescu: in pleasantly surprised : yesterday driving through flood (it rained here like the end of hte world, 15cm+) car lost... the front fucking plate on a highway ramp, when water came as high as the windows.
mircea_popescu: so i called teh empleado, sent him to fish my plate somehow, an hour later, when i finally noticed coming out of whorehouse.
mircea_popescu: he... did. "por milagro", dood fished out my plate out of a sunken highway ramp.
asciilifeform: twist : http://www.dukw.com/dkramp.gif is mircea_popescu's car
mircea_popescu: nevertheles... not something you'd rely on, even if you had miracle-working groundskeepers at your beak and call. the correct approach is to NOT HAVE FLOODABLE HIGHWAY RAMPS OMFG
mircea_popescu: well, it does take like 8 liters of engine oil... but it's just a bmw.
mircea_popescu: anyway, point being, as girl was dialing the miracle worker for me, i was saying to her, "tomorrow you call the lawyer, apparently he's getting me new plates."
asciilifeform: puzzler is why would it come loose to begin with.. water-soluble screws?!
asciilifeform: .. held on with hot glue ?
mircea_popescu: nah, it rests on a larger plastic plate, which is plastic-fastened to the whole bumper assemblage.
asciilifeform: ugh
mircea_popescu: you know ?
mircea_popescu: basically it got sail effect.
asciilifeform: sounds liek this bmw is of moar chinese build than my old tub even
mircea_popescu: it is literally made in germany.
asciilifeform: iguess germany aint what it used to be
mircea_popescu: and this was years ago!
asciilifeform recalls when bumpers were made of rubber, and ~never needed swap
mircea_popescu: but yes, this is how empires die. "yes we're aware this would sail right off if driven through in 3 feet of water, but the car's not rated for driving through 3 feet of water so it's ok." "right, but then the ramp that's not rated for flooding will flood, because etcetera in this vein, and there you are."
asciilifeform: sounds like mircea_popescu lives in gelandewagen country
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828005 << the closest we got to a replacement i believe was asciilifeform's shiva, i.e. a tinyscheme embedded into trb runtime. it was suggested as a useful exercise for novices to attempt to expose existing, useful rpc function using it, but there were no takers. at some point the idea of using shiva in prod also went away, because tinyscheme is not necessarily production ready (primarily because of C-ism issues). as ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 14:07 Mocky: I'm confused about trb rpc. Log search suggests for the first year+ of bitcoin foundation rpc was marked for death: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-28#1417175 but then there's dump / eat block based on rpc? Is this a new version of rpc, I don't see a new version announced on the mailing list. Can someone sum this up for me, I'm having trouble following the history.
phf: of right now new methods that people write are exposed through the old RPC still
mircea_popescu: probably ; but honestly i very much like this thing's turn. it specifically does 1-lane-over turning. very evidently was designed specifically for it.
asciilifeform: evidently it wants to live on clean, dry autobahn, smooth enuff for playing billiard.
mircea_popescu: you can switch from driving leftmost lane this way to rightmost lane that way or rightmost lane this way to leftmost lane that way on a 4 lane road at ~100kmph in sub a second. just goes wooooosh.
Mocky: what, rear wheels steer too?
mircea_popescu: Mocky no, rear wheels go woosh. but ever so slightly, it's so stable you wouldn't believe.
asciilifeform: Mocky: afaik those only exist in jp
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform driving through water is a major engineering problem though. unless specifically amphibian landing vehicle, ytou won't get it.
mircea_popescu: the correct fucking solution, nevermind billiard whatever, is to not have floodable highway ramps. which is the largest chapter in highway ramp engineering book. not even kidding.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: quite troo. tho gelandewagen-style fat, synchronous wheels still better for drowned roads than autobahn limo.
mircea_popescu: phf there were takers, mod6 working on rawtx recall ?
asciilifeform: i'm not really surprised that bananistan has flooding ramps. oxcarts dun particularly care about water.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform are you kidding me ? i found out later from workers we were the only ones to cross there.
mircea_popescu: their little toyota and toyota-like shits (which is 99% of mkt here) simply drown in half that.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: where do the donkey riders cross ?
mircea_popescu: they wait.
asciilifeform: aa
mircea_popescu: donkey, also can't breathe underwater.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> but yes, this is how empires die. "yes we're aware this would sail right off if driven through in 3 feet of water, but the car's not rated for driving through 3 feet of water so it's ok." "right, but then the ramp that's not rated for flooding will flood, because etcetera in this vein, and there you are." << AHA, this happened to the plasticar
mircea_popescu: but this reminds me, saw somewhere nice aquafort of 1918 major road here, then a river, beign crossed by bare legged girlies on oxcarts.
Mocky: mircea_popescu, wooshing across 4 lanes in sub second is my kind of fun, I do this ~daily on motorcycle
mircea_popescu: i almost never do!
mircea_popescu: it's not for fun, it's for WAR!!1
asciilifeform: Mocky: for motorbike road is 'always empty' neh.
trinque: 'til it isn't
mircea_popescu: yeah, until you end up spread like butter
asciilifeform: aha, watched heads pop like melons.
Mocky: i a car the road can be full, on a bike you can still fit in there
asciilifeform: but until said day, life so phree, so vroom!11
mircea_popescu: i personally know a slut that lost the ability of being beaten for fun, through the mediation of her ducati and so many knee and hip surgeries she's immune to playpain.
mircea_popescu: and you know what else went with it ? she can barely come. because yes, the cns is plasticine, but no it's not free plasticine.
asciilifeform: 'that nerve moves left little toe now'
mircea_popescu: you know ?
Mocky: blockchain's not gonna fit on this 250gb ssd is it. fuck
mircea_popescu: this is in the lawgs!
Mocky: dun help til you know you need to search for it!
mircea_popescu: btw, everyone notice how every year by now there's one of these shockingly promising young squirts ? just, they keep coming earlier and earlier in the year.
asciilifeform: Mocky: multiply blockheight by 1e6 to get a ceiling for estimated mass ( you will only ever be off by a small constant )
mircea_popescu: yo Mocky , do the botting bs. i was going to tell you when to v it, and everything. not like you're alone here you know.
mircea_popescu: if you just run by whatever shines you'll get overwhelmed and then depressed at how the sand sucks effort with no visible return.
Mocky: tru but how am to even have money without a wallet?
mircea_popescu: you have a wallet
mircea_popescu: !!pay Mocky 0.02
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/iQDvA/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: there.
mircea_popescu: (i hope we all now admire the wisdom of trinque, for having closed this hole for me lo these many years ago.)
asciilifeform: trinque's walletron is certifiably spiffy.
trinque: glad you gents like it.
Mocky: ok well, thanks. hopefully that doesn't curse me. but also i "have" "bitcoin" in various dark markets that i want to actually own and I don't trust them to send accurate decimal to trinque's walletron
mircea_popescu: Mocky so flush them via whatever, iirc blockchain.info sent correct ammt.
mircea_popescu: but no, it's not like it's verboten to stand up a trb, god forbid.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc bci et al have started doing segshitness
mircea_popescu: can't do it when you pay to a proper addy.
asciilifeform: aa hm
trinque: when I've grunted out the cuntoo thing, next item in the pipeline is the hot wallet
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and trinque isn't issuing them their 3bs. i suppose next step in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-20#1827722 security circus luls is "can't send bitcoin to proper bitcoin address, ITS INSECURE!!!" bullshit. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-20 16:15 mircea_popescu: in other-same lulz, usg amping up the "upgrading" of "secure" http sites off the interwebs.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828076 << phf in retrospect tinyscheme plugin was an ill-conceived thing. such item really calls for a troo adatronic scheme thing. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 16:08 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828005 << the closest we got to a replacement i believe was asciilifeform's shiva, i.e. a tinyscheme embedded into trb runtime. it was suggested as a useful exercise for novices to attempt to expose existing, useful rpc function using it, but there were no takers. at some point the idea of using shiva in prod also went away, because tinyscheme is not necessarily production ready (primarily because of C-ism issues). as
mircea_popescu: but afaik they're not quite there yet.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: so far seems like they know that fence is electrified, mostly stayed off
asciilifeform: ( with possible exception of shitpay )
mircea_popescu: zombie herd knows no such thing, on the long run. bridges over barbed water!
asciilifeform: lolyes
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2016/and-they-wont-fucking-yield/ etc.
mircea_popescu: i wonder what percentage of the old world jews actuallty went to the lime pit while managing imaginary financial empires the whole time.
mircea_popescu: because it seems like 100% of the new world jews will.
mircea_popescu: and you'd better believe it'll be "republic doesn't like us because IT IS BARBARIC!!!! HATES BLINDLY WITHOUT REASON OR CAUSE!!!!11" etc etc.
asciilifeform: 'they hate our fleadoms!'(tm)(r)
mircea_popescu: rewatched http://trilema.com/2011/margin-call/ last nite ; hanbot was all "wtf is with these idiots, tax man takes 50% right off the top, and that's it ? no comment, not even a groan, not even 'how about you pay me the real amt you pay me rather than pretend double' zero ??"
mircea_popescu: she hates their freedoms.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-20#1827698 << lmao i somehow missed this. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-20 15:20 FundsAreSafuh: the pursuit of knowledge, and an adoration for the great Mircea Popescu
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-20#1827714 << roflmao what fucking thrills these guys got. i am starting to suspect i missed out. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-20 15:41 FundsAreSafuh: The thrill of buying 60 BTC, and spending it all on cannabis. The exhilaration of learning PGP for the first time. The realization that FeedZeBirds was a scam.
asciilifeform: lol realization
asciilifeform: ( recall similar generation of amoeba who 'then i realized mmm was SCAM!' ? )
mircea_popescu: you know, the total btc value i spent on pot the past decade is 0.00. because a) who the fuck buys pot for internet funbux, just... why! and b).
mircea_popescu: though when it comes to b), i suppose i should admit the girls keep getting offered roaches and tokes alllll the time. whole crowd whose only mode of socialisation seems to be, sharing mate uh i mean, pot-e.
asciilifeform: same folx presumably who bought the infamous $100M pizza
mircea_popescu: but i mean... the ~only utility of even buying pot is getting to know the dealer.
asciilifeform: in current-day gringolandia, 'dealer' is no longer interesting connector to the world, but rather some d00d with two flower pots and fluorescent lamp in his cellar
Mocky: I probably spent what i didn't realize would be a fortune of btc on pot. but i at least learned an important lesson.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform disgusting tankworld.
Mocky: i didn't smoke any of what i bought
mircea_popescu: these people have no fucking idea re soviet survival skills.
mircea_popescu: here's the pro tip : everyone who made money in the 90s did so because of their "pot dealer" connections.
mircea_popescu: the whole fucking point of even having a black market economy is to destroy the system, hence all the o'brien comments on trilema.
mircea_popescu: the same guy selling you pot, in a working world, will sell your car for you / introduce you to the people in austriturkey to buy condoms from and so on.
mircea_popescu: then you learn the much more important lesson that a car's worth of condom's worth the whole hruscheba, plus that hottie on 2F.
Mocky: my experience, quite limited, was that ~only people dealing pot are pot heads who don't end making a dime
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sorta the thrust behind the recent trend of 'pot legalizations' in usa -- succeeded in neutering the healthiest of the blackmarkets ( something like 1 in 5 zeks in usa, regularly pot )
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: the pot dealer is even an extinct species these days; gotta go buy fentanyl to make friends now
ben_vulpes: and even that largely subsumed by .cn mailorder
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: even these, are afaik now quite similar to the flower pot derp, typically just a d00d who works at pharmacy warehouse
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: nah, even worse/dumber. importing the fentanyl and mixing it poorly into things that look like heroin for street-resale
asciilifeform: ha
asciilifeform not deeply versed in subj
ben_vulpes: because it's not fentanyl, it's just-enough-different to escape prosecution in the orient and kill people in ameristan
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform deintermediation, the universal inca goal. as per http://trilema.com/2015/why-representative-democracy-doesnt-work-and-doesnt-make-sense/
asciilifeform: aha 'start topology'(tm)(r)
asciilifeform: *star
asciilifeform: iirc under obummer they even made inroads into making small arms blackmarket dependent on usg-controlled suppliers.
mircea_popescu: basically they're really really dedicated to dying in a bloc.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: lulzily , in ameristan they have the 'analogues act', i.e. anybody can be prosecuted, if they 'need to have problems', for, say, the glue in their chinese shoes, if need be
asciilifeform: and the whole mass of the boot will count towards 'sentence formula'
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: this isn't even not true.
mircea_popescu: helps the whole "nobus child porn" thing, "if we didn't cheat here we'd cheat down the line" sorta anal children "arguments".
asciilifeform: ( sorta how you see sentences for '10kg of lsd', which has never existed and probably will never exist on planet earth; they weigh whatever reagents, incl water )
mircea_popescu: "cheat -- we will!" hurr.
asciilifeform: or, on the other side of the kangaroo courthouse, the infamous 'shoestring machinegun' cases, etc.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1827957 << yeah, this dun seem workable. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 01:29 phf: much hairy, unix.lisp, runtime, sbcl's new approach of doing every single bit of ffi by writing C function wrappers first
asciilifeform: ( 'we found an old rifle in his closet, and a shoestring, if he were to tie it to the bolt like-so...' )
mircea_popescu: https://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/ATF-shoestring-machine-gun-2004.jpg for the record.
asciilifeform: famous lulzcase
trinque: sterling nixon, ferfuxsake
mircea_popescu: "constructive possession."
asciilifeform: recently it was invoked , in a ban on whatever peculiarly shaped rifle butt was found in the las vegas postal, supposedly 'bounces off shoulder and shoots illicitly faster'
mircea_popescu: wasn't the butt, plastic attachment over the trigger thing
asciilifeform: aah
trinque: "bump stock"
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: it's a terrible bit of chinesium, too.
mircea_popescu: kinda why dood didn't hit jack shit
asciilifeform: iirc was moar of a sprayer than aimer type
asciilifeform: not clear why he didn't simply do a proper auto mod. 'hang for sheep as well as lamb'
mircea_popescu: because he knew no pot dealers.
asciilifeform: what dealers. just needs, what, drill press and file.
mircea_popescu: consequently, worried he'd be leaking info.
mircea_popescu: he didn't have teh skills.
asciilifeform: evidently
mircea_popescu: depressives are rarely effectual specifically because often a goal requires some preparations.
asciilifeform: bonsaikittenization bears fruit.
mircea_popescu: depressives are broken in the typical consumer fashion, "either right now or not at all"
asciilifeform: iirc subj d00d specifically counterexample, had multiple rehearsals, prepared.
mircea_popescu: but not drill press.
asciilifeform: right
mircea_popescu: they weren't "rehearsals", they were chickening outs.
asciilifeform: likely
mircea_popescu: suicidy emo chick isn't "rehearsing" with the pills.
asciilifeform: trooly prepared d00d would've, e.g., lobbed selfmade frags.
mircea_popescu: and the case'd absolutely have been another chickening out, in my respected and respectable professional oppinion as the only left psychologist speaking this language, had not a very george zimmerman-like character (white male redditor-rentacop) jiggled at his door with his pretense to matter.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: most of the reported 'postal' derps to date seem to follow this pattern
asciilifeform: 'later', 'later', then suddenly 'must nao'
trinque: the thing builds up as an escape fantasy. "that'll be the day"
mircea_popescu: which, incidentally, is why the pantsuit hate the "new right" or whatever they call it. all they see is the zimmerman-paddock party and get hives.
mircea_popescu: ie, overbearing, underqualified, loud smelly white male officious intermeddlers.
mircea_popescu: can't even say i disagree.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in accountrements, https://78.media.tumblr.com/45a89885d7a7a44d8cbb7e7c51efbc29/tumblr_oxpi7hxTl41uzk3l9o1_400.gif
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: doubt that it's so specific; afaik they see it as simply a large underground bag into which they've driven errything with even half a ball remaining, 'could do anyffing!1'
mircea_popescu: i don't think so.
asciilifeform: ( considering that there isn't actually such a thing as 'new right', but in reality buncha folx who read r-reddit in place of l-reddit )
mircea_popescu: and then go about tapping trayvon on the shoulder as he's going home after fucking jennifer senseless.
mircea_popescu: yes, this is exactly it : redditor-rentacops.
asciilifeform: y'know, sorta how there wasn't actually a 'communist underground' in the last reich, just that luxembourg chix who got guillotined with buncha other derps
mircea_popescu: an evolution (albeit slight) of the 1990s era pantsuit-imagined-enemy, the subersive-exterminator. this guy : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a84gLEew8m4
mircea_popescu: you gotta appreciate, pantsuits are very visual thinkers.
asciilifeform: even these did not exist in the necessary mass, the 1st clinton had to create'em ( for waco etc )
mircea_popescu: so visual, in fact, that unless there's a gui with icons to cluck at, they don't have ~the subjective impression~ of having thought.
asciilifeform: !#s militia
a111: 81 results for "militia", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=militia
mircea_popescu: because their thoughtmeter is really taping the optic nerve.
mircea_popescu: and hence natural masturbatory activity of the sort described in http://trilema.com/2012/the-imbecilitarians/#selection-317.0-317.109
mircea_popescu: the ~driver~ of the behaviour is exactly 1. now we're doing serious business edumancation which is thought ; 2. activity not involving the optic nerve doesn't feel like having thought ; 3. clicks through captics all while
mircea_popescu: it's exactly like old pedophile rubbing the desk in court during testimony of kids he rubbed at home. just, mechanically, how it works.
mircea_popescu: hysterically enough, this is actually a line by felini. in zampano literally says, "it's the optic nerve that does all the work"
asciilifeform: really whole root of 'guiism' is to give the monkey a harmless object to manipulate, like hamster is given wheel
mircea_popescu: indeed. and for this very reason. monkey feels like it has produced intellectual work for having been visually exhausted.
asciilifeform: hence, for instance, clinton's creation of 'militias' to send the r-reddit folx to play with pea shooters, rather than chancing their discovery of effective low-tech monkey wrenches (e.g. gas)
mircea_popescu: certainly. as the gears grind to a halt, more and more of the imperial gdp is leaked to distracting the barbarians.
asciilifeform: today not even needs pea shooters; e.g. weev et al successfully occupied with escape 'censored' r-reddit to alt-alt-r-reddit etc
trinque: some derp put a frog on a twitter clone and that was that.
mircea_popescu: wait, there was also a voat, is this that ?
asciilifeform: clone of clone, and who knows, maybe kangaroo nao instead of frog, i have not followed the subj
trinque: mircea_popescu: nah "gab"
trinque: I only remember because nazi chick had big tits
asciilifeform: 'wriggle out of the conclusion while accepting form'
mircea_popescu: this fragmenting thing they're doing is amusingly enough more helping reddit than they could have done if they were good redditors and "created" "content" for it.
mircea_popescu: basically, "will drench this ship out of our own canteens, make sure it has water under keel"
ben_vulpes: latest innovation is lotto-disguised-as-lootbox on ipad; labor force participation by young males down, but expenditures of parents' 401k on skinner boxes is up!
asciilifeform: wat's a lootbox?
mircea_popescu: a box of loot.
asciilifeform: how would one go about mistaking ipad for one such ?
mircea_popescu: how does one go about mistaking their pay slip for money ?
mircea_popescu: wilful suspension of brain function.
asciilifeform: 'st peter, you can't take me, for i can't go, i owe my soul to the company store'(tm)(r)(1890s amerischwitz) i dun think they necessarily confuse it.
mircea_popescu: nothing from the 1800s may stand for today's zeks.
asciilifeform: i've yet to meet in the flesh a zek who actually thinks he's touched real money.
mircea_popescu: do you know when talking to stupid cunt (tm), her retort to "have you seen ken park" was "no, i was 9yo when it came out".
mircea_popescu: only thing penned in the past 3 months may be used in support of zek.
mircea_popescu: as far as the crop of baaaas is concerned, 1800s america was a different country in a different land.
mircea_popescu: !#s fathers fought to conquer
a111: 0 results for "fathers fought to conquer", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=fathers%20fought%20to%20conquer
mircea_popescu: orly ?
asciilifeform: ipadism really replacement for televism, rather than anything else.
diana_coman: trinque, if I understand it correctly, I could have a cuntoo right now and move later on to v-tree but a. there is some work to be done to configure it properly for the exact pizarro hardware b. it's unclear whether I'll be able to emerge (i.e. build musltronically) all the stuff I need ; correct?
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/how-is-it-the-end/#selection-205.604-205.670 then.
diana_coman: ref http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828010 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 14:35 trinque: diana_coman: I have updated the script you last tried, such that it again works. What I have not completed is the v-tree which is to replace imperial portage.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828036 << this is a major point ; and goes directly to the bifurcation between http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-19#1827317 and http://trilema.com/2009/inchipuiti-va/ (original piece describing a world where things exist by power of mind and how it'd play out). ☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 15:33 asciilifeform: Mocky: to function as a troo vtronicist, gotta grasp the concept, described by e.g. dijkstra, that a line of code you have written is not an asset, but an expense. (specifically, an expense against the time budget of other thinking people, who must read and grasp what you have written. )
a111: Logged on 2018-06-19 20:52 mircea_popescu: it's not "oh, errybody has a rotten plank or two keeping'em afloat." it's "oh, everybody ~can manifest matter by will~, currently everybody hanging off the bare minimum rotten plank and they're not even COMPARED".
mircea_popescu: i suppose i should translate that thing. unless anyone wants to practice their rofu first ?
mircea_popescu: also, i misstated http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828225 ; i meant zimmerman-campos (the hotel's rentacop that hassled the dood into going live). ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 17:04 mircea_popescu: which, incidentally, is why the pantsuit hate the "new right" or whatever they call it. all they see is the zimmerman-paddock party and get hives.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828045 << rejects the github implementation of merge, would have been the correct statement. yes you can alter code, but through a very different process, in places exactly opposite. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 15:56 Mocky: asciilifeform, re: rejects traditional concept of merge, to my eye this looks like 5 merges. are these non-traditional?
mircea_popescu: for a simple example, the default state is, "userbase rejects your merge" rather than "everyone please upgrade". that should give a decent idea of the flavour.
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1827984 << thanks! ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 08:55 jurov: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1827925 << sent
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828275 << right. either now or later, you'll have to produce a kernel config suitable for your hardware, and provide that to the build script. and yes, there is the potential that somebody else hasn't yet provided musl patches for your dependencies, though there are more all the time. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 17:28 diana_coman: trinque, if I understand it correctly, I could have a cuntoo right now and move later on to v-tree but a. there is some work to be done to configure it properly for the exact pizarro hardware b. it's unclear whether I'll be able to emerge (i.e. build musltronically) all the stuff I need ; correct?
diana_coman: trinque, hm, the kernel config suitable for the hardware in principle exists already as it would be the same as it is for non-musltronic gentoo, or am I wrong here?
asciilifeform: trinque: luckily asciilifeform already baked kernel config for the type of machine diana_coman has ( tho it potentially can be further trimmed )
diana_coman: so then it would seem this is the best available option currently: asciilifeform can I have trinque's cuntoo on that machine when it's available?
asciilifeform: surely
diana_coman: thank you!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828282 << asciilifeform very definitely read that piece. but it might have been in the orig ro ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 17:31 mircea_popescu: i suppose i should translate that thing. unless anyone wants to practice their rofu first ?
asciilifeform: the one where 'what would you have in your house, if all you had to do is think of it'
Mocky: this makes sense to me >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828287 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 17:35 mircea_popescu: for a simple example, the default state is, "userbase rejects your merge" rather than "everyone please upgrade". that should give a decent idea of the flavour.
trinque: yep, there aren't any specific constraints on the kernel, other than the obvious "matched arch, abi, of userland root"
trinque: however, if you're using genkernel, the script doesn't invoke that for you. it expects to be fed a kernel config bare
trinque: (there will be a tool for initramfs-ism forthcoming, but there are very few situations where you actually need one)
asciilifeform: trinque: really, i can't think of any genuine reason to keep initramfs; if box needs e.g. raid card driver, it oughta be compiled in kernel
trinque: I have use for it in embedded, but only
asciilifeform: and overall trinque's approach to kernels is The Right Thing (i.e. nail down the iron, and switch off modules)
trinque: place to mount say a squashfs as root, with overlay for ephemeral writes
asciilifeform: modules make sense to have on a box where you're developing custom iron, and driver is fiddled with actively, and that's about it
trinque: aha
asciilifeform: trinque: aah conceivably
trinque: asciilifeform: no reason to be more than busybox and here's your init shell script.
asciilifeform: iirc busybox errs on the side of being spartan, breaks certain legacy duct tapes
asciilifeform: but this is not really an argument against it
asciilifeform: ( i had it, fwiw, on pogo )
trinque: I build initramfsen by aiming portage at a custom PORTAGE_CONFIGROOT and ROOT, using a threadbare portage profile, can thereby slam down ebuilds in a chroot without having the whole of portage present in the chroot
trinque: recently did work experimenting with "just add water" kernels where the initramfs is (relatively) huge, but there is in fact a magic number limiting the size of in-built initramfs, dun recall what, but hit it in the few 100s of mb range
mircea_popescu: Mocky it's not much, superficially, but it has a lot of downstream. because this is the ~fundamental~ rot of "foss" : that impotent dweebs latch on to it not because of the lofty theoretical goals, but strictly because of the very direct if unspoken power equation, "if i be friends with these guys then girls will be forced ot insert my penis in their vagina by themselves".
mircea_popescu: which obviously is the universal palliative dream of the impotent.
mircea_popescu: "nobody could have predicted" and therefore it doesn't occur to them how to clean it. and the politruks are helpfully there, "stop rape" and "code of conduct of incluisivity" and etc, expertly boiling the frogs.
asciilifeform: 'foss' 'development' follows the pattern illustrated in the old jp game 'katamari damacy' , where ball rolls around and picks up rusty nails, rubbish, people, dogs, trees, candy bars, etc
asciilifeform: with the 1 twist that in the nintendo game at least sometimes objects come loose and fall from the ball
asciilifeform: but in 'foss' , pretty much never
mircea_popescu: this is everything! this is everywhere! banzai pantsuit!
asciilifeform: ( tbf, not limited to open sores, e.g. microshit world is just such a katamari )
asciilifeform: the pov where 'line of coad is asset!11' inescapably leads to this.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828135 << so far the question is whether adascheme or elips. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 16:29 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828076 << phf in retrospect tinyscheme plugin was an ill-conceived thing. such item really calls for a troo adatronic scheme thing.
asciilifeform recently had lengthy emacs convo with asciilifeform's brother, greybeard incurable emacsist , re 'yes we will ditch the autoinstallable packets' . initially horrified, then it dawned on him
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: elisp is a roughly microshit-quality product.
asciilifeform: e.g., leaks like a sieve.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no but this is my point. "why are you using emacs when in fact trb will need ada scheme anyway and then you could just have a musl-gnat nerwmacs" ?
asciilifeform: yes. tho currently toolbox consists of rusty old emacs, and ~barehands.
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: put that in brother's graybeard an' smoke it!11
asciilifeform: compared to, e.g., trb reactor dismantlement and rod replacement , re-creating the useful part of emacs is light work.
mircea_popescu: this is how we ended up rebuilding the whole town around powerplant as part of powerplant rebuild project.
mircea_popescu: from city hall to cnc mill, the works.
asciilifeform: btw didn't somebody grind out a draft of a foaetal ada scheme ? was digging in log, not found so far
ben_vulpes: spyked?
asciilifeform: iirc
mircea_popescu: i think this was spyked's thing
asciilifeform: did it break his back? i dun recall hearing of followup
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737242 << ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-11-13 17:44 ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-12#1736892 << some years ago, several people got together and worked through 'an incremental approach to compiler construction', one nick fitzgerald worked through it in ada: https://github.com/fitzgen/ada-scheme
mircea_popescu: !#seen spyked
a111: 2018-06-18 <spyked> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-15#1825614 <-- I wonder if dood is still tuned in (maybe read-only? I know I was for more than a coupla years). kinda enjoyed the conversations back in the day.
asciilifeform: trinque: naa wasn't a heathen link, was selfmade thing
spyked: quite the backbreaker, yes. I have some coad, but it sucks (iirc I linked some of it and phf tore it to pieces).
asciilifeform: trinque: the heathen item linked, has e.g. unbound strings, and related nopes
asciilifeform: spyked: do you happen to have threadlink handy ?
mircea_popescu: in other lulz (from there where the hopeless cunts posture) : Sam25218 23F Exploring "It costs £0.00 to not be like this." LordMPofTMSR 37M Master "For the same money it'd cost you nothing to stop washing and go about in rags. What nonsense is this ?!"
mircea_popescu: anyone wanna guess her comeback ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'what's washing' ?
mircea_popescu: you know, showering, bathing
asciilifeform: the comeback, i mean
mircea_popescu: lmao. nope. it is, believe it or not, computer related.
mircea_popescu: well... disrelated, at any rate.
asciilifeform: hm?
mircea_popescu: ima give it till the hour an' then reveal, this is something else.
spyked: asciilifeform, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-08#1722613 , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-20#1741176 , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-20#1741181 and there are certainly others. I kept reading and adding some basic pieces to it, but IMHO is still very much "roadside item" ☝︎☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-08 14:06 phf: spyked: r5rs and tinyscheme are not the right places to start on the other, non-ada end, i'd recommend looking at lisp in small pieces. you can tease out the theory out of tinyscheme, but it's definitely easier not to get bogged on accidentals if you start from theory
a111: Logged on 2017-11-20 12:19 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737923 <-- also, spyked's adalisp is missing more fundamental things, such as closures. it's an early prototype, barely usable, but > 0. interning is of course considered, but not added yet. anyway, phf, consider the following point: built-in symbols (car, cons, etc.) still have to point *somewhere*, and that somewhere must not be addressed in a C-machine style! symbols should point to Lisp memory (via
a111: Logged on 2017-11-20 12:23 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1738140 <-- ftr, I am following phf's initial advice re. reading lisp in small pieces; this, along with kogge's book. but at snail's pace (code easier to write than read)
asciilifeform: ty spyked
mircea_popescu: spyked afaik this ran in entirely unsolvable memory addressing problems, that true ?
spyked: I managed to make the thing run without a heap, I think the problem's more in my understanding of Lisp's evaluation model.
asciilifeform: iirc asciilifeform described exactly how to cure pointerolade in adascheme ( use array of cells, and ordinary ranged integer for addressing )
spyked: and I don't know how to cut it in small, readable pieces.
mircea_popescu: ic.
asciilifeform: spyked: were you able to get hold of the french d00d's 'lisp in small pieces' ?
asciilifeform: it's exactly the likbez for subj.
asciilifeform: oh nm already mentioned in log
mircea_popescu: in other sads, article fucking untranslatable. "inchipuiti-va" is not romanian for "imagine", because that's imaginati-va. it's the vocative of the act of creating a form/face (chip) in your mind. which does not exist in english as such, unless you go to "mentally iconify" or somesuch barbarism.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'представьте себе...'
mircea_popescu: this word, incidentally, is like the english "set". means "ways, means, form, face, expression" etc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform isn't that more like vede, "see" ?
spyked: asciilifeform, yes, found w4rez. and used it as reference. and the lisp evaluator works on simple programs (implemented most higher-order functions in it), but the code is organized like crap. and I'm not sure I made the correct cut between "builtin procedures" and e.g. keywords such as "lambda".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: neh, 'put forth to yourself'
mircea_popescu: then exactly.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you'll find that ro translates, generally, cleanly, to ru
asciilifeform: and prolly other human languages
mod6: Hi all. So we're trying to figure out what we can do here regarding the s.mg hot-spare box.
mircea_popescu: myeah.
asciilifeform: ( vs island patois )
mircea_popescu: mod6 last i heard and signed off on, alf's gonna put the cuntoo on the box as soon as you folks have it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: translates ok, as i currently see it , even to jp ( but asciilifeform would not yet undertake such a thing )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform for your lulz file, google thinks представьте себе = "represent yourself".
mircea_popescu: note the ambiguity, "represent ~to others~"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: google translator is pretty much same 1970s lultron as produced 'the vodka is tasty but the meat -- rotten' from 'spirit is willing but flesh is weak', famously
mircea_popescu: justaboot.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's pet is working through learning ru, and periodically succumbs to temptation of google translate as 'learning tool', with predictably lulzy result
mircea_popescu: putin doesn't understand how the world works.
asciilifeform: the meat, see , was rotten!11
mod6: And what we're proposing is this: 1) the bitcoin foundation will give S.MG its SAMSUNG 1tb ssd - we can get that drive into the hot-spare-environment and get it racked in the next i.e. 48 hours. This will allow diana_coman to boot up and do whatever testing/gymnstaics she needs. meanwhile 2) Pizarro will make 1st order of 5 1tb ssds from shitazon and have those shipped asap. They should arrive by about mid
mod6: -july. 3) Upon receipt of the first drive shipment, we can add those additional drives to the hot-spare-evironment - as needed. They'll be earmarked for S.MG. 4) Pizarro will then actually place another order of 5 drives to be shipped just to have on hand.
mircea_popescu: mod6 a) why not just sell it to pizarro and b) it's really no rush, end of the month's fine.
asciilifeform: mod6, mircea_popescu : it was my understanding that mircea_popescu & diana_coman wanted a test bed, and will eventually swap back to orig s.mg box; so not clear if the spare needs a full adult raid
mod6: I've just been told that I don't even need to give S.MG a drive, or sell it one. Apparently I misunderstood and there already is a drive available for this environment. Just one, and that's alwasys been there iirc.
mircea_popescu: a ok. anyway, don't stress out about it neh.
mod6: asciilifeform: aha, they can decide to add the additional drives any time after the first shipment is received. Totally up to S.MG.
ben_vulpes: nah no stress, workin out how to best serve s.mg
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the only catch is that "o wait, kernel now dun work"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: can backup to the larger box, neh
mircea_popescu: can what ?
asciilifeform: ( or off-site, via net, like errybody )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if disk failure is the concern
asciilifeform: or do i misunderstand 'kernel now dunwork'
mircea_popescu: no, the idea is, she stands up a working pile on the non-raid system, attempts to move it over, it don't boot, because raid.
mod6: Anyway, that's what I'm thinkin. We stand up what we have onhand for S.MG. And meanwhile, we order 5 1Tb SSDs for immediate shipment. When recieved, we ship another 5.
ben_vulpes: box can come up for testing with the spare ssd drive held for s.mg raid redundancy; then reprovision with cuntoo later in the month and the fat stack of SSDs to flesh out the raid array for the production cutover.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i procured, for this reason, identical raid cards for all
mircea_popescu: ah, so then adult raid, just not adult populated. this seems fine.
asciilifeform: correct
mircea_popescu: right. i dun see a problem.
diana_coman: sounds ok to me too
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828353 << Sam25218 23F "I think my vagina just made the windows shut down noise. Begone you irksome cockwomble." ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 18:49 mircea_popescu: anyone wanna guess her comeback ?
mircea_popescu: imagine, her netherparts run on microshit!
asciilifeform: pretty great
asciilifeform: couldn't make these up, i swear
mod6: bsov
mircea_popescu: dumbass earnestly didn't even imagine how fucktardedly ridiculous she is.
mircea_popescu: but i suppose this is what you get for wiping back to front
asciilifeform misread as 'whipping back to front', was puzzled
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 a) why not just sell it to pizarro and b) it's really no rush, end of the month's fine. << thanks for the time horizon. we'll plan on getting the hot-spare racked and going for sure by end of June.
asciilifeform: mod6: box is racked, needs disks, FG, nic cord.
mod6: we've got FGs, and iirc, we've also got two remaining USB-TTLs right?
asciilifeform insisted on bolting the spare boxen into the rack, given as it is really 2man job
mod6: lobbes: you still wanna buy & ship some SSDs for pizarro for BTC? chat us up in #pizarro about the details.
mod6: im assuming we also have spare ethernet cords down ther
mod6: so we should be good to go then to meet our EoM deadline.
mod6: ok, seems like we only have 1 USB-TTL still available on site.
asciilifeform: mod6: ben_vulpes the other day agreed to finally send his stash
asciilifeform brb,meat
mod6: Maybe that's ok to just get one FG up and running for the test environment? We're shipping addtional ones down there asap as well. They'll come separately from the SSDs though.
mod6: (we'll obv. add the second one in there as soon as the addtional USB-TTLs arrive)
diana_coman: mod6, when is the eta for having them?
diana_coman: i.e. the ssds and the full set of fg
ben_vulpes: end of july for the whole package
mircea_popescu: mod6 one's plenty sure.
mircea_popescu: hmm... did i just step in it ?
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, it's certainly fine for testing at this stage; presumably later if we get everything compiling fine and bring eucrypt in we might want to have both but it's not at all a requirement atm
mircea_popescu: if indeed we just move it back to old one during a wed downtime, we need nothing.
mircea_popescu: anywya, just trying to work with these fellows within their surprising constraints.
mod6: ok sounds like a plan then. thanks for being flexible here.
diana_coman: if we can indeed just move it over on a wed downtime then yes, not needed for sure;
mod6: i'll even go one further... if the FG USB-TTL becomes a pressing issue, for some reason, I'll give ya mine from my rockchip.
mod6: i'll take another one when the shipment arrives in .uy, no problem at all.
mircea_popescu: that;s the hope, anywya. we see.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/wood-impregnated-in-oil-a-metaphor/ << Trilema - Wood impregnated in oil, a metaphor.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828348 << http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-12#1736830 << I see the discussion threads, but didn't find the post on thetarpit.org ☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 18:47 asciilifeform: trinque: naa wasn't a heathen link, was selfmade thing
a111: Logged on 2017-11-12 23:07 spyked: in other news, I've been using most of my spare cycles lisping in ada. should be able to wrap up a blog post sharing a very minimal prototype (sane implem. of repl doing nothing but basic ops) in a few weeks. what I've got now adheres to most of ffa constraints. the current version isn't very clean, but getting there...
asciilifeform: trinque: loox like it hasn't climbed to post level of yet
trinque: nbd, just went a-lookin
ben_vulpes: https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/19/17480912/github-ice-linkedin-scraping-employees << "no pretty please don't be hunting us down"
mircea_popescu: in ongoing lulz, "A v Hoare, [2008] UKHL 6 is a leading tort case in British law, decided by the House of Lords in 2008. The Lords held that the limitation period for actions founded on torts of negligence may be disapplied where it is inequitable to enforce it."
mircea_popescu: this resulted in a 50k win by the "victim" and a 800k win in "court costs".
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-20#1827686 << cannot hit that URL from here ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-20 07:38 lobbes: speaking of, trinque could I get http://blog.lobbesblog.com/feed/ added to blogroll?
trinque: nor root of the site
hanbot: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828147 << that fucking movie. first, i was pissed off none of the characters were capable of saying ~anything~ of substance about [finance, trading, anything-at-all], then i realized it's an accurate portrayal. still not sure if the thing's deliberately honest or all responsible are so clueless the kitsch was actually supposed to impress. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 16:33 mircea_popescu: rewatched http://trilema.com/2011/margin-call/ last nite ; hanbot was all "wtf is with these idiots, tax man takes 50% right off the top, and that's it ? no comment, not even a groan, not even 'how about you pay me the real amt you pay me rather than pretend double' zero ??"
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: pretty lulzy; 'dox' of usg monkeys, posted to... shithub
asciilifeform: weev-level wtf
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i had nfi brit prisoners could play lottery, lol
asciilifeform: ( iirc in usa they cannot )
asciilifeform: in usa they are sometimes able to publish books, tho, and routinely dekulakized by court
asciilifeform: ( and other variations on the theme, e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474626 ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 16:27 shinohai: http://ktla.com/2016/05/31/prosecutors-fight-to-stop-san-bernardino-shooters-family-from-getting-250000-life-insurance-claim/
asciilifeform: https://archive.li/cwjsO << vintage lul via the hoare thing. rapee was given... medal.
asciilifeform: the Pantsuit Iron Cross, or sumthing.
asciilifeform: 'The honours were created in 1917 by King George V during the First World War as a way of rewarding civilians and servicemen in support positions for their contribution to the war effort. Now they are used to recognise an achievement or service to the community in any area, such as the arts, charity or education. According to the Cabinet Office, an MBE is given for an "outstanding achievement or service to the community.'
asciilifeform: didjaknow !!
asciilifeform: obummernobel-grade lulz.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828460 << nor from here. lobbes i suspect that your box is down ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 21:34 trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-20#1827686 << cannot hit that URL from here
ben_vulpes: hanbot: did you only cover debit cards in "state of the cards" and not gift cards because buying gift cards with btc is a terrible idea for some reason?
asciilifeform: re shithub-hosted 'dox' -- asciilifeform suspects that it is same dynamic as the oh-so-'oppressed' sov poet types who sent their megaworx straight to союз писателей , to be reliably oh-so-censored , rather than samizdat, for the obvious reason
asciilifeform: (i.e. they're blue-usg, live on 'oh we are so censored'-by-redusg , more so than on bread )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: didja turn up somebody claiming to do it ?
ben_vulpes: btcfor.gifts
ben_vulpes: (of all wacky dns entries)
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: didja try it ?
ben_vulpes: incidentally, first btc affiliate program i've found in the wild, so will probably throw some change at them as well to see what comes of that
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: buy a small one, see what happens ?
asciilifeform: ah ok
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i'm thinking about ~50 bucks worth, see if it works as promised
asciilifeform: iirc this type of shop popped up periodically in the olden days
ben_vulpes: same with the affiliate thing; 'a-ads'; i know mircea_popescu said that nobody uses anything but clickbank, but i can't pay 'em in btc and the amlkyc is thick over there as well; so, fifty bucks, see how bad the results can possibly be
ben_vulpes: ("a-ads.com")
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2018/wood-impregnated-in-oil-a-metaphor/#comment-126055
ben_vulpes: who look to have bounced off the early republic sometime in 2014
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Aarsenische+
BingoBoingo: <mod6> ok, seems like we only have 1 USB-TTL still available on site. << We have 2
BingoBoingo: At least
mod6: ahh, nice!
mod6: thanks for the update BingoBoingo
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828463 << in the usual poltronish manner of the place, they'll argue both. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 21:49 hanbot: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828147 << that fucking movie. first, i was pissed off none of the characters were capable of saying ~anything~ of substance about [finance, trading, anything-at-all], then i realized it's an accurate portrayal. still not sure if the thing's deliberately honest or all responsible are so clueless the kitsch was actually supposed to impress.
hanbot: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828479 << nah, not specifically. just not-in-scope. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 22:35 ben_vulpes: hanbot: did you only cover debit cards in "state of the cards" and not gift cards because buying gift cards with btc is a terrible idea for some reason?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828472 << quite so. for "her merits". ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 22:23 asciilifeform: https://archive.li/cwjsO << vintage lul via the hoare thing. rapee was given... medal.
hanbot: re "they'll argue both" -- i'm sure, i don't expect to get an answer out of *them* lol
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828492 << the results are bad in the sense discussed in http://trilema.com/2012/coinurl-a-bitcoin-advertising-service/ / http://trilema.com/2015/minigame-smg-june-2015-statement/#footnote_3_62044 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 22:43 ben_vulpes: ("a-ads.com")
mircea_popescu: to put it shortly, one line here is ~infinity% the advertising any such item can produce for you. they have 0 base.
mircea_popescu: leaving aside the quite obvious question of why would one even entertain a wanna-be bitcoin thing that's uppity enough to not be here in the first place.
mircea_popescu: since we're doing "ancient trilemas apparently nobody read", i guess could also add http://trilema.com/2012/advertising-on-digitalpoint/ (which'd have been the natural comparison point to the "digitalpoint advertising report" i'm guessing absolutely is not getting done, unless i put it on hanbot's plate or something. blergh.)