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BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2586.4, vol: 9738.16797447 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2509.146, vol: 5957.60415 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2568.8, vol: 15703.98682071 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2672.89806, vol: 9377.74330000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2588.045, vol: 5887.51865475 | Volume-weighted last average: 2588.20440617
asciilifeform: happy 2015phorqday folx
BingoBoingo: Happy Phorking day to all you motherphorkers!
mircea_popescu: lol!
mod6: HEH
deedbot: http://thewhet.net/2017/yankee-doodle-henry-part-vi/ << The Whet - Yankee Doodle Henry, Part VI
sina waves
sina: evening tmsr
sina: best twitter quote I saw today: "US is free as in mattress"
mircea_popescu: sina i confess i don't get it. free mattress ?
mircea_popescu: like what, the discarded mattresses people locate half a mile out of town or so to fuck randos on ?
phf: doing full type annotation with (mp #*1010101001010011110000101000000000001101011100000001 (expt 2 14)) drops the time from 11s to 7s
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: presumably like discarded mattress in a rubbish heap
mircea_popescu: ic
phf: but requires a handful of unsightly (the ...) in a few places, so not really worth it
mircea_popescu: phf worth to have, though.
mircea_popescu: for typemaps and whatnot
asciilifeform: * sageprobes has quit (Client Quit) << aww
phf: dat, err := ioutil.ReadFile("./gpl-2.0.txt")
phf: message := flag.String("message", string(dat), "message")
asciilifeform: lolwat
phf: sina: is that ^ a correct method? ☟︎☟︎
phf: !~later tell sina http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-05#1679215 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-05 15:39 phf: sina: is that ^ a correct method?
phf: hmm
phf: is something supposed to happen when i later tell?
phf: asciilifeform: i don't know how to go
shinohai: phf there was a space before your !~
asciilifeform: phf: why would you even. what's next, building the microshit F# one ?
phf: but i'm trying to reproduce "single threaded mpfhf-golang can provide a 32-bit mpfhf hash of GPLv2 in ~7m" on my machine
phf: oh flag, lets you pass this stuff as a command line argument.. i guess this approach works too. i'm not sure why i can't just do message = string(dat) but i'm too lazy to figure it out ☟︎
phf: asciilifeform: maybe if someone inwot were to build one, i'd consider it, at least
asciilifeform: would consider java also ? how about nodejs ?
phf: yes
asciilifeform: or would alternatively consider adjusting wot.
phf: not for the offense of using a heretic language
asciilifeform: it ain't about crud languages
asciilifeform: but camel's noses
asciilifeform: i.e. introduction of genderfuckery crapolade into tmsr infrastructure
phf: well, i agree that particular choice signifies
phf: phuctor still in python i take it?
asciilifeform: the www face of it is.
asciilifeform: and quite a misery.
phf cackles
asciilifeform: it is the most laboriously dysfunctional proggy i had ever written, it is my albatross
mircea_popescu: lol i was thinking, "original author hates lisp for some reason" but then i passed for it being too cruel
asciilifeform: it gets a dedicated physical console here, and almost every week i gotta restart it by hand, see wtf , why is db gummed up etc
mircea_popescu: phf no period, it's not " !" it's "!~"
mircea_popescu: a too late soz
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can't keep a list of verboten camel noses.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in practice nobody needs to keep exhaustive list, the nose suffices
asciilifeform: if it stinks of sv -- to the furnace with it.
mircea_popescu: cunt stinks of sv.
asciilifeform: goland -- stinks.
asciilifeform: *golang
mircea_popescu: you saw that movie, incidentally ? the bad redo of le nom de la rose ?
mircea_popescu: with teh credible character who hated laughter ?
asciilifeform: sure did
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> sina i confess i don't get it. free mattress ? << disease vector metaphor
mircea_popescu: it's not a tenable position. even if laughter was in aristotle. because, again, and i mean this most literally, the smell of cv is the smell of cunt.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ah ah
mircea_popescu: hm, let's redo that for spealing.
mircea_popescu: it's not a tenable position. even if laughter was not in aristotle. because, again, and i mean this most literally, the smell of sv is the smell of cunt.
asciilifeform: again , it ain't about crud languages. it is about systems, and people. if, e.g., sina, wants to ADOPT golang, and maintain it, such that nothing that happens in tmsr is EVER subject to the whims of genderfuckers at google hq -- no python3isms, no 'language is evolving', no 'you need gcc7 to build this', no 'we no longer support ppc and 386, fuckyou' -- then it can be considered
mircea_popescu: yup.
asciilifeform: otherwise it is a camel's nose, an infiltration of enemy.
mircea_popescu: camel toe.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's the problem with the traditional "use it while it works and then shoot her in a parking lot and leave her there to bleed a la jane fonda" ?
asciilifeform: interestingly 'golang' is a pretty straight ripoff of 'D' (by digital mars co.)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the problem is that shooting the jane fonda doesn't cure the syphilis and hiv.
asciilifeform: you get to live with it.
mircea_popescu: the reason it's in discusison today is the manyear in engineering hours they put in to fix the hardware impedance
asciilifeform: the way asciilifeform is still living with python
mircea_popescu: so no, they could have picked forth and it'd have been trhe same thing.
asciilifeform: mno. a forth is a few Kb and 0 deps.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform from experience men don't care about debilitating disease, just dun like the whinery.
asciilifeform: and in fact doesn't need 'thousand man years to fix the mismatches' because it HAS no mismatches with the iron.
mircea_popescu: try the D and see it take twice as loing ?
asciilifeform: if speed is all you want, asm beckons.
mircea_popescu: speed was the point in discussion, not all i want.
asciilifeform: what we have in the golang thing, is a loaded camel for carrying multi-GB of heathen liquishit into tmsr intellectual infrastructure .
mircea_popescu: one needn't fear the smell of cunt in his room.
asciilifeform: i will not be 'adopting' and maintaining it and its deps, and so far no one has stepped up to the job
asciilifeform: because it is a ludicrous proposition -- massive ball of shit, that makes gcc look compact and fits-in-head.
asciilifeform: and the gain -- quite illusory.
mircea_popescu: i had no idea anyone was even contemplationg that.
mircea_popescu: let's get back to shoot her and let her to bleed out in a parking lot.
asciilifeform: lulzily, i am not averse to experimenting with heathen whatevers, i even have an isolated leprosorium for infected winblowz.
mircea_popescu: so then what are you talking about ?
asciilifeform: but to date i have not even succeeded in building clang ! despite trying a number of times, because the lattice fpga thing needs it
asciilifeform: it wants whole planet of liquishit, that apparently one is expected to simply get in binary (?) and swallow whole
mircea_popescu: so cameltoelang ?
asciilifeform: i keep having the thought that we had this thread already, in the past..
asciilifeform: ( found, so far, only the 'baited hook', http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-19#1468576 ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-05-19 15:31 mircea_popescu: anyway, Framedragger golang is not liked here because we don't own it, and we don't like usg.google more than we like usg.anything, and because it seems quite well engineered to work as a baited hook for the usg chump works.
mircea_popescu: sure.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-19#1468551 << possibly here ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-05-19 15:22 asciilifeform: golang --> straight to furnace.
trinque: asciilifeform: still gotta let newbs fuck around / fuck up or you get a generation of idiot puritans, and nobody ever learns anything again.
mircea_popescu: ^
asciilifeform: let'em.
asciilifeform: in cobol, even, if they feel like.
trinque: can then point / laugh / educate and everyone's the better for it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform here';s the thing : i didn't get that impression from what you were saying. and the substance of a scam is when the reader doesn't get that impression from the copy. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: it's a dangerous way to work.
mircea_popescu: i can sort-of decrypt the deadpan rhetorical overstatement to the point of absurdity device you practice about 2/3 of the time or so. but i'm a fucking trained decoder and honestly i dunno if there's another alive.
asciilifeform: the way i see it, it is the duty of a serious n00b , who wants to become an adult practitioner of whatever black art , to learn a human lang like french, english, german, etc , rather than to expect the learned folx to learn his piglang, quechua, whichever...
mircea_popescu: and what is harappan warrior to do, die ?
trinque agrees, but arrived here with python, wrote a deedbot
asciilifeform: either kill the funny looking white invader -- or learn his tongue, yes
trinque: learned, wrote next thing in lisp
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so you could never everr, no matter what, go into their harappan little huts and lift the beaded clothes to find harappan cunt, and then explain to your host, "well, it's ok for a coupla hours i guess, but i wouldn't live here. BECAUSE..."
asciilifeform: trinque: understand, asciilifeform's barf is not in response to 'd00d wrote a proggy in piglang' but to the notion that it is perhaps a thing to be considered for serious deployment, and an experiment that ought to be replicated by other folx who do not normally keep piglang on their iron
mircea_popescu: no such thing was notioned other than in asciilifeform 's own head. it's not present in conversation, not even for the trivial "alf put it there to have a rant basis"
trinque: I think that's the distinction between youth and wisdom, and youth is *meant* to go try to die, and see if it doesn't.
mircea_popescu: moreover a large part of fun consists of doing stupid shit.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, trinque: problem , imho, falls into the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674857 class. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 03:04 mircea_popescu: tis true. bigots = fixated people with beards you couldn't convince of your reasonable position, such as "the rabid dog doesn't bite" on the grounds of it not having bit yet, or "marrying your first cousin is fine" on the basis of hey, cunt that doesn't scare me!
mircea_popescu does stupid shit all the time.
mircea_popescu: like, for instance, talking that walk in the first place.
mircea_popescu: you ever visited a brothel asciilifeform ?
asciilifeform: nope
mircea_popescu: because you're afraid you might die ?
asciilifeform: again nope
asciilifeform: just never met an appetizing one, yet.
mircea_popescu: sooo then, you understand golang also.
mircea_popescu: i don't imagien you're picketing brothels.
asciilifeform: brothels ain't an organized effort to take a massive shit in my fits-in-headization of the comp.
mircea_popescu: orly ?
asciilifeform: rly
asciilifeform: no moar so than bakeries, or cement factories.
mircea_popescu: so what you're saying is that if you were a canon of the town church, you WOULD picket them ?
asciilifeform: ( i have not ever visited a cement plant in person yet either )
asciilifeform: i dun get it
mircea_popescu: i have.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, there's really no way to run for oneself. take jurov for instance : years later he's still struggling to come to terms with the specific portions of socialism he can't let go of. if people end up taking teh bait and going to bury themselv es ion google for the rest of their life, what exactly was lost ?
mircea_popescu: win-win as they say.
asciilifeform: very 'calvin' pov here, neh
mircea_popescu: it is.
asciilifeform: 'if d00d fell into sin, he was already hellbound'
asciilifeform: i dun subscribe.
mircea_popescu: the limit of what you can do for others is show.
mircea_popescu: you can't save another.
asciilifeform: now this is so.
asciilifeform: i regard my duty of 'showing' to be fulfilled, when i state, without any strong emotion, that i will not run golang, nor encourage others to do so.
asciilifeform: nor will 'aid and abet'.
trinque: in order to have the human machine operate in self-sorting mode, can't have blanket prohibitions, or as mp said http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-11#1641810 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-04-11 00:19 mircea_popescu: lobbes see, because they made the mistake of banning things instead of simply banning stupid.
mircea_popescu: i don't, because it's meaningless as such. but fulfillment is a long way
trinque: meanwhile, dog has been living with "put everything in my mouth" for how many million years, still here
mircea_popescu: also developed a taste for own shit in the process.
mircea_popescu: as one'd have to (children also have it, for the same reason.)
trinque: not saying we want to take up turd-munching, but that "no system of global prohibition" can handle even it, easily
asciilifeform: dunno how we ended up discussion 'prohibitions' -- asciilifeform hasn't the power or desire to confiscate d00d's keyboard for churning out whatever liquishit.
mircea_popescu: because http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-05#1679297 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-05 16:26 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform here';s the thing : i didn't get that impression from what you were saying. and the substance of a scam is when the reader doesn't get that impression from the copy.
asciilifeform: but just as honest surgeon will not point to bangladeshis drinking from rivers of shit and call it 'alternate hygiene, just as good' -- i also will not.
mircea_popescu: this is at a considerable distance from what you actually said though.
asciilifeform: i dun see it.
mircea_popescu: well lessee here.
mircea_popescu: what's the alfhf that goes from S = "phf: why would you even." to H = "just as honest surgeon will not point to bangladeshis drinking from rivers of shit and call it 'alternate hygiene, just as good' -- i also will not" ?
asciilifeform: i dun see the disconnect.
mircea_popescu: so they are ~the same thing ?
asciilifeform: as i see it yes
mircea_popescu: do you understand why ahm im sorry. do you have a working theory as to why the bangladeshis are drinking river of shit ?
asciilifeform: orthogonal to the fact of them drinking it
mircea_popescu: it is ?
asciilifeform: it is.
mircea_popescu: so they are devoid of agency ?
asciilifeform: poor hygiene is not necessarily chosen
asciilifeform: ( e.g. consider auschwitz )
mircea_popescu: sooo then... you DO see why they would ?
asciilifeform: which is why observation is not about the drinkers of shit, but re clean-shaved western idiots who point and call 'alternate hygiene, just as good if not better than ours'
mircea_popescu: but where did this occur ?
asciilifeform screws in fresh gas mask filter
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: where i ( and , as in linked threads, in the past, mircea_popescu also ) observe that golang is not 'simply another prog lang' but a carefully built intellectual gluetrap for the naive and energetic
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: and the thing about glue traps, is that 'entry is a buck, exit -- two'
trinque: meaning no disrespect to sina (and I figure he knows this from output) his pronouncements are not going to have the same effect on tmsr as a Lord's will
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and so the quality and composition of glue therefore can never be ascertained ?
trinque: said himself he's doing it to learn and so on
trinque: meanwhile what Lord is going to fear that a student's folly will affect anything but himself
mircea_popescu: you know guns kill people and yet i being a people still know how they work and even took one apart once. as opposed to running in screaming terror
mircea_popescu: like a "woman".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it certainly oughta. but this was not the light in which i saw the thread.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: y'know, toxicologists who insist on personally tasting every sample, generally do not have long, illustrious career
trinque: ridiculous comparision, they *test each
mircea_popescu: but phf has certainly earned himself the right to make that call ?
asciilifeform: sure.
mircea_popescu: so if he is legitimately bothered by "wtf, does this EVEN REALLY work faster ?" and he goes to look into it, why are you alarmed ?
mircea_popescu: i'm glad to hear.
mircea_popescu: because yes, someone certainly oughta and i couldn't in good conscience tell someone to go do it.
asciilifeform: because if i see an l1 fella eating rat poison, even a very very sweet one, i'd like him to at least be aware of what it is he is doing
asciilifeform: rather than 'hey this is great candy, but why do i feel funny'
mircea_popescu: i am pretty sure he knows what golang is.
asciilifeform: but does the n00b know.
mircea_popescu: but you were talking to phf
asciilifeform: about sina's proggy.
asciilifeform: not, note, phf's.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless.
asciilifeform: ( somewhat unrelatedly , i find the fact of google and crapple each adopting a proprietary shitlang, to be a fascinating thing from 'labour politics' pov -- was it an attempt to put a damper on 'poaching' of workers ? or something else. )
mircea_popescu: on some level i am sure it was. not just the management siude though.
mircea_popescu: labour forcve stability works both ways, the drones wish security just as much as the dronemasters do.
mircea_popescu: this is the fundamental force fucking up it corps in the first place.
mircea_popescu: marginal bob at google figures if there's a shitlang involved that gives him some protective moat agfainst above average fred.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile bob's boss bob figures shitlang being involbved protects him from his bobs going to fred's start-up
mircea_popescu: and so on
mircea_popescu: tivoization of heads, and the tivoheads are oif course lapping it up.,
mircea_popescu: because, again, iot's not the martians that did it.
mircea_popescu: there's piles of stupid everywhere principally because stupid piles so well. which is it's only property, really.
mircea_popescu: like prions, stupid is that thing which has no properties besides piling well, and thereby accumulates.
asciilifeform: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3134574475962391@naggum.no.html << oblig naggum on subj
asciilifeform: '...C/C++ are quite interesting languages from a marxist point of view, too (it being May 1 and all): they are so bad that any professional who wants to do interesting work needs to learn new tools all the time and have the employer pay for it. the means of production are thus removed from the hands of the owners into the hands of the workers in a very new way. if the employers were any smart, they would not use languages that remo
asciilifeform: ved _all_ their investments in their people this way, because it is as unhealthy for a market with disproportionate power in the hands of employees as it is with disproportionate power in the hands of employers...'
mircea_popescu: (and yes, that's also why their ~only concern is "how to reduce friction" ie make sure it piles as well as it posdsiblu could". gendercommits and nochildleftbehinds etc all follow.
mircea_popescu: i don't mean the, give poor kids a free delousing and glasses part of no kid left behind. i mean the make smart kids dumber part.
asciilifeform: it isn't clear to me that these can be cut
mircea_popescu: which is these ?
asciilifeform: 'delousing' and 'procrust'
mircea_popescu: of course they can.
mircea_popescu: da fuck is this chan if it is not that ?
asciilifeform: hey i did not say 'they cannot be cut'
mircea_popescu: and ftr if it's not that i want no part of it.
asciilifeform: but that it remains an open problem.
mircea_popescu: which is a good chunk of why mp doesn't idle in a buncha chans
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in the sense nutrition remains open problem.
asciilifeform: aha, or transportation.
mircea_popescu: right.
asciilifeform: ( i.e. not a problem that reasonably gets a final solution, but rather shifting sets of engineering compromises )
mircea_popescu: there's fundamental principles that are known
mircea_popescu: for transport - 3rd law. for this, wot. etcetera.
asciilifeform: ( found -- possibly -- the thread, though it wasn't re proglangs : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-28#1620042 ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-02-28 14:34 asciilifeform: sorta was the original point of a school, neh. a reasonably safe reservation where 'chix who have not yet learned to wash' can lean to wash, without creating dangers to self and others.
mircea_popescu: the danger from reading teh torah comes from trying to read it alone, not from trying to read it at all.
mircea_popescu: the wanna-be shards, similarily.
asciilifeform: tru.
ben_vulpes: in shitantium lols, i submitted my nfc train fare card for inspection this am. portoscanner a: couldn't read through the leater of my wallet, b: came out of the fare inspector's pocket hung, c: unhung only to die for lack of batteries.
asciilifeform: batteries?!
mircea_popescu: too many power outages in the best possible socialism
mircea_popescu: everyone's stuck with batteries.
ben_vulpes: "sorry for the inconvenience sir, you have a good day now. you know they keep saying there's a patch coming that'll improve battery life for these things, but i haven't seen it yet." "heh yeah and i don't beliueve that it'll work."
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: it's a handheld
asciilifeform: aaah aahh the ~reader~
ben_vulpes: because turnstiles are racist or i don't even know what led to the system designed such that anyone can just wander onto the trains
asciilifeform: we have this type of train here also, asciilifeform + pet ended up with free ride because conductor could not be arsed..
trinque: ben_vulpes: I dunno that I ever once paid for a train or streetcar in pdx
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do they do the "i am a black man fighting THE man therefore only white people gotta pay" thing ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: apparently not here!
mircea_popescu: seems moar like urban legend than anything
asciilifeform: now the ~reverse~ -- could be
ben_vulpes: trinque: try riding ~every day, the statistics will catch up to you.
mircea_popescu: he can't ride every day the truck parking at pdx statioons sucks
ben_vulpes: it is though, obvious transit welfare for the homeless. "no i don't have id, no i don't have a place of residence, good luck getting the fine out of me"
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: outskirts of town have plentiful parking lots even trinque 's truck could fit into
ben_vulpes: primo spots reserved for charging 'lectrical cars tho, natch
trinque: gotta put a railgun in teh bed, charge that
mircea_popescu: lol
ben_vulpes: heh or just have a dummy cable snake out from under the hood
ben_vulpes: confuse everyone
asciilifeform: in other noose, asciilifeform found that mircea_popescu's hash has an upper bound of...
asciilifeform: O(N^2).
asciilifeform: and betcha mircea_popescu already found the proof of this.
asciilifeform: ( the average-case is considerably ~below~ N^2. the reason for this will be apparent when reading the proof. )
asciilifeform: this thing wouldv'e made a great olympiad problem, midnightmagic ☟︎
asciilifeform: ggerrrrr
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu,
asciilifeform goes to shoot his irc client
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> and the thing about glue traps, is that 'entry is a buck, exit -- two' << Perhaps go and take local pesticide applicator licensing class? May improve your metaphors?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'ma learn from the greats, e.g., BingoBoingo , instead!11
asciilifeform: and yes american ver. of the saying would probably be the thing where 'roach motel! check in, but never check out'
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> the danger from reading teh torah comes from trying to read it alone, not from trying to read it at all. << Same problems occurs with reading "Big Book" alone. People read selectively and get weird ideas. Hence the whole idea of sponsorship, tour guide through the text and steps.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: i'ma learn from the greats, e.g., BingoBoingo , instead!11 << Mebbe an enjoyable part time gig comes out of it? Spend some weekends delousing locals? Covnert difference to benjies and ensuitcase for flight day?
asciilifeform: 'doctor, first delouse thyself' or how did it go.
asciilifeform: for now asciilifeform is satisfied with having solved own verminiferous problems.
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> because turnstiles are racist or i don't even know what led to the system designed such that anyone can just wander onto the trains << St Louis trains are like this, finally hit critical mass because "only white man pays" has turned train into war zone
BingoBoingo: Until the next mammal with tenacity
BingoBoingo: As opposed to Tenacity(TM)(R) which is great herbicide for blanching undesirable grassy weeds from cool season lawn.
asciilifeform: re mircea_popescu's hash, another observation : it is not ever necessary to actually invert S. ( i will leave the reason for this, again, as an exercise to readers ) ☟︎
asciilifeform: and incidentally the bound on operations also binds S ( which grows either once or none times per. )
asciilifeform: so it looks like the current algo lacks the properties 4 and 5 from mircea_popescu's article.
asciilifeform: ( he will probably disagree, and say 'tight bound is not same as 'say how much memory and cpu'... but fact is, this is not quite the unpredictable game-of-life-style automaton contemplated earlier. )
asciilifeform: *upper bound
asciilifeform: not tight.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-05#1679457 << twas really your idea to begin with. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-05 21:57 asciilifeform: this thing wouldv'e made a great olympiad problem, midnightmagic
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a binding of 8mb for 1024 bytes of M seems perfectly fine to me,
mircea_popescu: "unbound within engineering constraints".,
mircea_popescu: it's certainly not practical to simply say "i will just allocate lenM ** 2 bytes for s whenever hashing"