log
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asciilifeform: ACHTUNG panzers!! trb node 'zoolag' is back in business, this time as ordinary linux box -- syncing from 0 . same ip as prev.
shinohai: nice asciilifeform
mike_c: Birdman - are you using python 2 or 3? what does it say when you run "python --version"
mike_c: !!v Birdman
mike_c: !!up Birdman
deedbot: Birdman voiced for 30 minutes.
mike_c: all my outdated bot commands
mike_c: !!gettrust Birdman
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 2 by 2 connections.
Birdman: python 3.6 (32 bit) and if i run that it brings me to a command prompt pretty much
mike_c: ok. it's a syntax error because the script was written for python 2, not 3. easy to change though, hang on.
Birdman: ah ok ok ty
mircea_popescu: and to go with http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-10#1696456 : wikiprop dept has a chapter on spain, "economic recovery (2014-)". because totally.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-10 09:50 mircea_popescu: in other lulz : usg.wikipedia agitprop has an open ended article on propaganda truths : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_financial_crisis_%282014%E2%80%932017%29
mircea_popescu: the notion that spain has or could ever fucking recover...
mircea_popescu: http://68.media.tumblr.com/f06580c8ffcffc0ed52ca83472f54250/tumblr_nt56ou8mpS1uohfy9o1_500.gif << spain, for illustration purposes.
mike_c: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Lq0de/?raw=true
mike_c: Birdman ^
Birdman: `much appreciation
Birdman: mike_c so it went through all these hands and says it processed ~30k of them, but what am i actually looking at here? the hands it lists in the prompt are the ones that the discrepency is found?
mike_c: the output is bad hands. it's comma separated - filename,hand#,player_that_is_not_in_summary
asciilifeform: !#s bannon
a111: 30 results for "bannon", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=bannon
mircea_popescu: did he get shot ?
mike_c: !!up Birdman
deedbot: Birdman voiced for 30 minutes.
mike_c: working for you? anything you want changed?
asciilifeform: 'After his ouster from the West Wing on Friday, ex-White House chief strategist Steve Bannon declared the Trump presidency that his brand of populist, right-wing conservatives helped make a reality is "over."'
mircea_popescu: aww
Birdman: so i went through and deleted all the tournaments cause those are not relevant, and i got seemingly different results. I think maybe its displaying less than all the hands it has found? i only saw four cash game hands the first time, deleted all the tournaments, and now i see a ton of cash game hands
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sacked
mircea_popescu: aha. in today's re-runs, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607670☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-26 19:29 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes depends on how good a job bannon does.
Birdman: and if im not mistaken it lists the player who is missing in the summary and will list the same hand twice to show if another player was missing in same hand so that extra fat that could be trimmed but im not asking you to fine tune this or anything lol, thoughts on it maybe not showing all results for lack of space of something?
mircea_popescu: what do you mean lack of space.
mike_c: doubt it. how many hands does it say it processed?
mike_c: and how many did it say before you pulled the tournament files?
asciilifeform: the 1 quasi-earnest d00d -- sacked
Birdman: bit over 26k and before a bit under 30k, also i think this guy's hand history is amazingly fragmented in a ton of spots so im trying to get a more solid chunk of data to run it on
asciilifeform: served his purpose
Birdman: alot of these hands are missing the summary in general
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha, old man went in on a ticket of no-compromise, compromised errythang.
asciilifeform: just as was obvious to asciilifeform .
mircea_popescu: mno, what was obvious to asciilifeform was http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-22#1486759☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-06-22 04:08 ascii_deadfiber: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-22#1486706 << clitler is the anointed muppet. as in, will be propped up with diebold voting machines if necessary.
asciilifeform: clitler reigns today.
Birdman: oh also what would i type to have it dump the output into some text file?
asciilifeform: ( may as well )
mircea_popescu: the obvious-to-alf show!
asciilifeform: berkeley: still open. climatola : in businesss. dept of shitcoinade - ditto
asciilifeform: what exactly differs observably from actual clitler reign?
mircea_popescu: i think this proves roosevelt is alive (might as well).
mircea_popescu: well depends observably for whom. what, you're going to compare events with alt-events-as-reasonably-imagined ?
mike_c: Processed hands: 297887
mike_c: Bad hands: 5013
mike_c: Processed files: 4612
asciilifeform: roosevelt жил, жив и будет жить!11!
asciilifeform brb
mircea_popescu: aanyway. teh us as mildly interesting as it ever was.
mike_c: seems like it's working to me :) here's without the player names: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/LsriU/?raw=true
Birdman: it seems to me that the bug im looking for is most likely to appear in hands processed that aren't sequential as the sequential ones are most likely entirely fragmented and the ones with only one player missing are the ones im most likely looking for
mircea_popescu: lol Birdman 's got a consultancy bidniss almost going ?
Birdman: not sequential, i mean the ones that repeat the hand number
mike_c: um, not following. but you're saying you want to see the ones that are only missing one player?
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/fifi-hamburguesas-bimbo/ << Trilema - Fifi, hamburguesas bimbo
Birdman: yeah something like that, trying to get it to filter out the corrupted hands from the hands with the bug im looking for
Birdman: but to be honest its probably good to have the corrupted hands to be able to request them from the server
mike_c: 4,412 of the 5,013 bad hands are only missing one player
Birdman: you only got ~5k bad hands? im getting 25k
mike_c: run the updated version I gave you and tell me all 3 numbers (processed, bad, files)
Birdman: ah ok one moment
Birdman: 262953 / 4914 / 3966 respectively, after i deleted all tournaments from the histories
mike_c: ok, so 4,914 bad hands
Birdman: which i did by searching through with "T1" cause tournaments all start with that and no cash games would
Birdman: yes
mike_c: well, seems like 80% of those are only going to be missing one player, so filtering by that won't help you
mike_c: give me an example of a hand you're *not* interested in.
mircea_popescu: and in other "baby's gonna have to learn sometime...", http://68.media.tumblr.com/3f2956963e5572ea4af56fcafa567c7d/tumblr_o0ok1jjuRA1uwe054o1_1280.jpg http://68.media.tumblr.com/be2d5b93f793c053e393e30b3562e5f5/tumblr_o0ok1jjuRA1uwe054o4_1280.jpg http://68.media.tumblr.com/5e67151689f0cc5f06068781b4b293cd/tumblr_o0ok1jjuRA1uwe054o9_1280.jpg an' http://68.media.tumblr.com/50517718fcf83d5ffa4d12bff44ce47f/tumblr_o0ok1jjuRA1uwe0
mircea_popescu: 54o10_1280.jpg
Birdman: ok so i suppose we could get rid of any that have the value "seat256" in the summary and any that are missing the summary in general
mike_c: excluding ones with no summary only cut 10%
mike_c: not sure what you mean by seat256, paste me an example
mike_c: !!up Birdman
deedbot: Birdman voiced for 30 minutes.
Birdman: seat 256 i mean, and http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/i3zev/?raw=true
mike_c: still 4,393 bad hands. down from 5,013. so doesn't cut out too many
Birdman: then may as well keep them
Birdman: well thank you this is crazy helpful!
mike_c: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/VWZcn/?raw=true
Birdman: any way for me to run this and have it spit out hand numbers it finds?
Birdman: rather, save it to a text file
mike_c: ^ excludes hands with no summary and hands with seat 256
mike_c: you just want it to spit out the hand numbers? sure.
Birdman: i meant to have it save results to a text file, how do i do that>
mike_c: well, if that's all you want just:
mike_c: "python hands2.py c:\directory > logfile.csv"
mike_c: or logfile.txt, or whatever
mike_c: oooh, goats shipped!
mike_c: thanks asciilifeform!
Birdman: and i type just that string after the rest at the same time? "whatever.py C:/handhistories python hands2.py c:\directory > logfile.txt" ?
mike_c: uh, no, like this:
mike_c: whatever.py c:\handhistories > logfile.txt
mike_c: sorry, mine is named hands2.py :)
Birdman: ah tyty
asciilifeform: in other lulz, http://fork.lol
asciilifeform: mike_c: np. sorry for the delay, i had to drive coupla hrs to the house where the stockpile lives.
mike_c: no worries.
asciilifeform: should be in your postbox mon. or tue.
mike_c: Birdman: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/qKB5Q/?raw=true
mike_c: last tweak
Birdman: whats this one do?
mike_c: run it like: whatever.py c:\handhistories -q
mike_c: and it will just spit out the hand numbers
Birdman: ah
mircea_popescu: ooo check that out, lol domains!
mike_c: hm, what happened in the last couple days? difficulty adjustment?
mircea_popescu: mike_c adjustment was on 9th.
mike_c: ok. so that chart is saying that a BCH is going for 0.15 BTC. which is about double reality afaict
mike_c: oh, hm, it did go up the last couple days. good time to sell!
mircea_popescu: iirc the imaginary number was always ~600 bux.
mircea_popescu: let me know if you manage to actually get anything for them, i've yet to meet someone who has.
mircea_popescu: also in the same news bulletin, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-16#1555809☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-10-16 06:28 rarepepeforever: http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/pepe-cash/
mike_c: oh, yeah, I did.
mircea_popescu: o ?
mircea_popescu: wanna do that as a service ?
mike_c: yes
mircea_popescu: tell me ?
mike_c: well, now that I'm thinking about it, not sure how that would work as a service. Because I had to use some assumed virus ridden POS BCH wallet. So I swept out a BTC wallet, then imported the address keys into the assumed virus wallet for BCH
mike_c: that actually worked, and then I sold it.
mircea_popescu: and then you got bitcoin back out ?
mike_c: I did. I was dumbfounded.
mike_c: but you know, all I risked was some time.
mircea_popescu: so you would do it as "send me 1 btc, i will send back 1.1 btc depending on market"
mike_c: but I would need the keys to wherever that 1 btc was pre-fork
mircea_popescu: ah so it's "send me the keys to pre-fork addresses, and i'll return btc" ?
mike_c: right
mircea_popescu: "whether spent or not on main chain" ?
mike_c: and assume that virus ridden wallet will attempt to clean out that BTC address
mike_c: right, if it was moved post-fork, doesn't matter
mircea_popescu: well so this seems like it is a very credible service, makie a website
mircea_popescu: "send me your keys to SPENT btc addresses, i will send you back some btc"
mircea_popescu: free money website as it were.
mike_c: right
mircea_popescu: charge a coupla percents or w/e.
mike_c: this is a good idea. I'll have to see if I can make the process less manual.
mircea_popescu: in principle there's you know, 100mn dollars worth of free money sittibng on ground, if you get 1% of that you really don't need a job.
mircea_popescu: (of course in reality there isn't, but w/e, not the worst business idea i ever heard.)
mike_c: well, there's only as much money as the order book is deep
mircea_popescu: yeah.
mircea_popescu: but the order book for average start-up is 0 deep.
mike_c: currently i could sell 500 BCH(bcc? whatever) for a bit over 50 btc. price has run up last couple of days.
mircea_popescu: bit of a time bomb, as i'm sure these will pop up. first mover advantage i guess.
mircea_popescu: anyway, cheap source of retweets/likes/wjhatever such social media crapital.
mike_c: well sure, but who gives a shit about social media. it doesn't have any btc.
mircea_popescu: (though traditionally the way "bitcoin doubler" scams work is that they pay off initially. and i don't expect this "bitcoin cash market" thing is anything else, however it may be interpreted by the retard crowd)
mircea_popescu: mike_c well, social media has tits. though usually of the useless variety.
mike_c: there's a decently deep book. takes 4500 BCH to get down to 6% right now.
mike_c: I don't think the market will last long enough for automated service to be worth it, but I'll turn the cranks if anyone wants me to clean out some spent keys.
mike_c: Reasonably manual process, so there would be a reasonable fee, but it's free money if you're not going to do it yourself.
mike_c: ping me if interested.
mircea_popescu: can you be specific ?
mike_c: Sure - given keys, I will sell BCH quickly - not too much regard for trying to optimize yield, without being entirely stupid about it. I'll keep.. 10% and give other party 90%. My fee will be minimum 0.5 btc and maximum 10 btc.
mircea_popescu: ic!
mike_c: so given spent address that used to have 50 btc, I sell the BCH, key owner gets free 4.5 btc. not too shabby.
mircea_popescu: provided owner can't be arsed to dih
mike_c: right. or hire someone else cheaper.
mike_c: http://thebitcoin.foundation/tickets/UCI_tickets.html
mike_c: is anybody working those? I'd be interested in contributing.
mircea_popescu: nobody specifically.
trinque: "standard bot" I published what, a year or so ago?
mike_c: published where?
mircea_popescu: true.
mircea_popescu: should i have said "everyone" ?
trinque: naw, just reading the thing.
trinque: mike_c: http://trinque.org/2016/08/11/logbot-genesis/
trinque: see the antecessor for something that doesn't have opinions re: db
mircea_popescu: a year ago precisely!
mike_c: nice, thanks.
trinque cranking moar on the paybot presently, and this weekend.
mike_c: oh, and for the common good, I used hitbtc.com to liquidate BCC. The interface is a piece of shit, I got multiple javascript errors throughout process, but bch went in, btc came out.
mircea_popescu: 6 confirms and errything ?
mike_c: far more by now.
mircea_popescu: cool.
trinque: dunno if I welcomed mike_c back, so, wb!
mike_c: I used this pile of shit for wallet - installed on VM, you should 100% assume this is a virus ridden piece of shit. http://www.electroncash.org/
mike_c: but it worked.
mike_c: thanks trinque!
mike_c: all in all it was an experience that felt like taking a shower in sewage.
mircea_popescu: when did they fork again, jun 25th was it ?
mike_c: dunno
mike_c: no, much later.
mike_c: maybe aug 1
mircea_popescu: pretty sure it was pre aug
mircea_popescu: hm maybe you're right, was aug 1st after all.
Birdman: hey mike_c is this a fun project for you or somethin? if you can be bothered theres some improvements i would ask for to narrow down what im looking for in that script, though im not trying to overstep any boundaries here.
mike_c: it's about bedtime for me. feel free to paste in a wish list. if it's quick I'll knock it out for you over the weekend.
Birdman: thank ya
Birdman: !~later tell mike_c http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/WyOfQ/?raw=true
jhvh1: Birdman: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: AHA, mike_c returns and already has a new gig
deedbot: http://trinque.org/2017/08/19/a-quiet-afternoon/ << trinque - A Quiet Afternoon
mircea_popescu: ahahaha check out undata!
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in perky tits and highschool parties, http://68.media.tumblr.com/cf594819917bbecc277724e4e324744c/tumblr_nyud24EYQS1v0jntgo1_1280.jpg
trinque: ah yeah, I'm equal parts proud and "kid, I'll finish you if we crash and I live"
trinque: he did great.
mircea_popescu: eh it doesn't look big enough to crash
trinque: thing squeaked like a motel bed
mircea_popescu: do they have 3 hour "love hotels" there ?
mircea_popescu: you should see those things.
trinque: ones where the rate's what, 40-50/day anyway
trinque: squeaky bed, that sorta indoor/outdoor carpet
mircea_popescu: bout 8-12 bux, something like that.
mircea_popescu: girl 20-30 extra.
trinque: probably had those here when http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-12#1554818☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-10-12 01:57 mircea_popescu: back when their bulls weren't all mechanical yet.
trinque: tomorrow we've got Black Lives Matter (TM) marching past my apartment for, whatever it is they tweeted about last
trinque: did the pantsuit mayor last time, wasn't enough, now nigger mayor who will seriously review serious matters and things.
trinque: I have yet to decide whether being elsewhere, or watching the bullets fly will be more enjoyable.
mircea_popescu: hard call.
asciilifeform: zoolag @ 206640 an' syncing happily on
asciilifeform: !~later tell mike_c http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-19#1700623 << why was it necessary to use closed turd client ? ( what's the actual diff in the lolfork anyway ? the 2mb thing ? could exist as a lulzpatch for trb, even, in principle )☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-19 04:09 mike_c: and assume that virus ridden wallet will attempt to clean out that BTC address
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: that he couldn't be arsed to read/write, i expect
asciilifeform: aa
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-18#1699937 << http://trilema.com/2015/a-lingering-suspicion/ found meanwhile.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-18 03:55 mircea_popescu: i can't find the trilema article illustration with the three girls under cold water but inserted by reference.
shinohai: In other eclipse revelry .... https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHjapfHXYAAId3H.jpg
mircea_popescu: total crackwhore hips.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, i wonder how many people decided to have their kid for the eclypse. maybe that way it'll come out speshul ?
shinohai: But exactly the type of girl you get here at the "siesta rate" btcbase.org/log/2017-08-19#1700693
mircea_popescu: ah, i believe.
shinohai: She's no good if she refuses to snort a line of crystal meth from an enlarged penis, you see.
mircea_popescu: o jesus god
mircea_popescu: they snort meth now ?!
mircea_popescu: in other random lulz : romania closed 2016 as the strongest economy in the eu. 1.3% drop in inflation, <1% budget deficit, 38.5% debt to gdp. stable local currency yoy.
mircea_popescu: this is ahead of sweden (1% inflation champs), the uk (5% deficit and 90% debt to gdp LOL), denmark, you name it.
mircea_popescu: and the uk specifically is headed for a shitter of epic proportions. they've to retool, but have no space to borrow to support capital costs and no strength in the labour market.
asciilifeform: retool?
asciilifeform: brits ~make~ something?!
mircea_popescu: yes.
mircea_popescu: now or generally ?
asciilifeform: now
asciilifeform: what do they make ?
mircea_popescu: now they make houses for russians to buy, to have them stolen away. the switch to chinese didn't take.
mircea_popescu: historically they were strong in engines, and other ind equipment.
asciilifeform: rolls royce aha
mircea_popescu: well, depends how historically. even more historically they were strong in textiles.
asciilifeform: those may as well have been different brits. like ancient egyptians vs current
mircea_popescu: they still export half a trillion worth of mostly software and crap (1/3 balance deficit)
asciilifeform: the usa business model lol
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform here, you'll lulz : largest 2016 export was 42bn worth of gold.
asciilifeform: that's an export ?!
mircea_popescu: "banking sector". london's fucked.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you get money it is an export, yes.
asciilifeform: sofa is then fuel
mircea_popescu: aha
mircea_popescu: and see, here's the true lulz picture : they exported 40bn worth of automotives. which looks like a something
mircea_popescu: EXCEPT they also imported 50bn worth of same.
mircea_popescu: and the 40bn dun exist without the 50bn. you know how that goes, it's a "high paying bay area job"
asciilifeform: like petro in texas
mircea_popescu: bigger problem sitll, their major partners are the us.
mircea_popescu: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/09/uk-economy-take-long-painful-look-research-development << surprisingly decent summary article.
mircea_popescu: the thing is, places like italy or spain have the natural-born whores to compensate, two or more to the household.
mircea_popescu: who would pay to fuck a british bag is anyone's guess.
mircea_popescu: in other words, there's no greek stoppers for britain, once it goes it goes.
mircea_popescu: (and , of course, they're making the eternal soviet mistake, spending 5bn on "research", except in healthcare, ai, batteries, self-driving vehicles, satellites etc. ie, trying to spend money to rewrite history with themselve in the picture. if you have a fucking clue you never invest in R&D in "hot" shit)
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in school, http://68.media.tumblr.com/f89825cd4887bd18a7cd8d9dc8242b32/tumblr_nziazkL24E1ucvu8po1_400.gif
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2DF7A3702116E0E30B47DFE5B6E3E9893FF8379DFD4DC6734620CDF4083DB555 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1156...8807 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '66.8.171.191 (ssh-rsa key from 66.8.171.191 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (cpe-66-8-171-191.hawaii.res.rr.com. US HI)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2DF7A3702116E0E30B47DFE5B6E3E9893FF8379DFD4DC6734620CDF4083DB555 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1181...2433 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '66.8.171.191 (ssh-rsa key from 66.8.171.191 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (cpe-66-8-171-191.hawaii.res.rr.com. US HI)
mircea_popescu: aaand in other lulz, teh metizos heard of things "many people know" and also have opinions on matters : http://www.nacion.com/opinion/columnistas/Mad-Dog-Trump_0_1652634727.html
mircea_popescu: (their own, original, honestly now!)
mod6: mornin
mircea_popescu: heya
asciilifeform: grupos neonazis, antisemitas y racistas lol
mircea_popescu: the most precious item is when cardbord-person makes evaluations as to the future!
asciilifeform: reads exactly like the local cardboard
mircea_popescu: yes, but local has the excuse of local. it's one thing to be rice, or obama, the system pays. but being nemtsov ?
mircea_popescu: infanta of spain does have a sucky job in a sucky society, but at least she gets the fucking pearls. it makes some limited sense.
mircea_popescu: what's malinche get ? squaw candy ?
asciilifeform: ( every usg-sucking orc has this fantasy, that if he pens one of these just-so, chopper transport will materialize and take him to harvaryaleton and obummer will personally pin on him iron cross with oak leaves and award mcmansion )
asciilifeform: !!up r0nin-
deedbot: r0nin- voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: persistent fella, lesee what he has?
mircea_popescu: aite.
r0nin-: <+mircea_popescu> in other random lulz : romania closed 2016 as the strongest economy in the eu. 1.3% drop in inflation, <1% budget deficit, 38.5% debt to gdp. stable local currency yoy.
r0nin-: <+mircea_popescu> this is ahead of sweden (1% inflation champs), the uk (5% deficit and 90% debt to gdp LOL), denmark, you name it.
r0nin-: <+mircea_popescu> and the uk specifically is headed for a shitter of epic proportions. they've to retool, but have no space to borrow to support capital costs and no strength in the labour market.
r0nin-: youve got that backwards
mircea_popescu: you know you can just quote by link reference.
r0nin-: higher deficits = higher economic growth.
mircea_popescu: uh. how do you figure ?
mod6: lol
r0nin-: well think about it
mircea_popescu: i am.
mod6: this is trolling, no?
r0nin-: on national accounting
r0nin-: government deficits = private economy savings
r0nin-: to the penny
mircea_popescu: yes, except in china not in the uk.
r0nin-: yes in uk.
mircea_popescu: lol get out.
r0nin-: the government is not a household
r0nin-: in a fiat regime.
mircea_popescu: uk deficit is powered by a huge trade imbalance, not some sort of local savings.
r0nin-: yes
mircea_popescu: yes. that means the value seeps out of the country.
r0nin-: the Uk has to run a budget deficit to add the money that is seeping out of the country
r0nin-: if they dont run it the economy contracts
mircea_popescu: mno. the uk adds money to compensate for THE VALUE seeping out of the country.
r0nin-: no the value is not seeping out of the country
r0nin-: its being added
r0nin-: EU products go to UK
r0nin-: GBP go out
r0nin-: whats the cost to produce GBP?
r0nin-: zero.
r0nin-: wahts the cost to produce EU products? a fucking lot.
mircea_popescu: understand this ? at first there's 100 pounds of goods and 100 pounds sterling. then the uktards want to live above their means, so some bezzle is printed up, say a further 20 sterling. then the trade deficit starts, and in the next step there's 80 pounds worth of goods and 100 pounds sterling in the country. discounting the pound sterling from the original 1 to .8.
r0nin-: that why US has a high consumption level despite producing nothing, while germany everyone is poor
mircea_popescu: this is ridoinculous.
r0nin-: look UK has a trade deficit.
r0nin-: that means more products enter then leave
r0nin-: they pay for their trade deficit with their own currency
r0nin-: so the countries that run a trade surplus with the UK
r0nin-: have the GBP now.
mircea_popescu: it's not that it has it. it's that it went from "empire" to "minor province" through maintaining a trade deficit. EXACTLY in the manner spain went from world's empire to minor province, two centuries earlier, through maintaining a trade deficit.
r0nin-: whats it the COST to produce a pound?
mircea_popescu: so what if it got all the aztec gold, if all of it ended up with the dutch.
r0nin-: yea but the products didnt
mircea_popescu: of course they did. that's why uk has no further industrial base, cuz they did.
r0nin-: the UK has a higher standard of living becuase of the trade deficit the same way the US does
r0nin-: the UK has no industrial base becuase they didnt care about it
r0nin-: they get subsidized by outside manufacturers
mircea_popescu: this notion that what you're exporting in a trade deficit situation is "the pound", ie, bezzle, is false. what you're exporting is always the value, bezzle always stays at home.
r0nin-: no
r0nin-: the UK is exporting a financial claim against it
r0nin-: its IMPORTING goods and services
mircea_popescu: you are very naive ; moreover very impudent to go with it.
r0nin-: the US is the same
r0nin-: tahts why you go to US and see everyone in new BMWs
r0nin-: but you go to germany and everyones in old ass shit
asciilifeform: lol!
trinque: bwahahaha
trinque: r0nin-: come over; I'll take you on a tour
mircea_popescu: dude... when the fuck were you last in the us.
r0nin-: they export their surplus value
asciilifeform: r0nin-: ever been to usa ?
r0nin-: yes
r0nin-: i was in miami last year
mircea_popescu: lmao. why is it that the orcs always end up in miami ?
r0nin-: obviously im a bit exagerating
r0nin-: the point is the US sends dollars which the world saves in
mircea_popescu: it's incredible, that place, the official capitol of the spanish main, every monkey from argentina to panama worships miami.
r0nin-: and in return recieves actual wealth
trinque: mircea_popescu: they wanna suck the tip of US cock?
r0nin-: haha true mircea
mircea_popescu: it literally is the capital of a large, bn-strong spanish gypo world.
r0nin-: if you have a trade deficit the governmetn has to run a budget deficit
r0nin-: or else the economy contracts
trinque: r0nin-: you've repeated that twice now, as though quoting your bible.
mircea_popescu: r0nin- i dun think you're qualified to discuss these matters.
r0nin-: budget deficits add new money to the economy
r0nin-: mircea think about it
r0nin-: UK runs a trade deficit with the EU that means EU is 'working' for the UK
r0nin-: they are sending them actual goods/services
mircea_popescu: sigh.
r0nin-: in return for what? claims on nothing.
r0nin-: GBP.
asciilifeform: r0nin-: and kiting cheques 'adds money' to household budget..?
r0nin-: the government budget isnt a household
mircea_popescu: "no but it's not a household!!"
r0nin-: because a household cannot issue its own currency
r0nin-: its a 'user'
mircea_popescu: it's fucking magic, he read it in the polish version of the new york times. THINK ABOUT IT!!!!
r0nin-: the private sector is always a net saver
asciilifeform: r0nin-: zimbabwe issued trillion-dollar notes -- why not world power ?
r0nin-: the government provides the financial instrument the private sector saves in.
mircea_popescu: r0nin- look, this "deductively emplaced" government you keep thinking of doesn't exist irl.
r0nin-: zimbabwe gave away 80% of its productive farms
r0nin-: to useless individuals
r0nin-: the production collapsed
r0nin-: thats why you had hyper inflation
trinque: are you high? you're bouncing *all over*
mircea_popescu: r0nin- stop fucking typing three words to the line. what are you, some kind of idiot ?
r0nin-: hyper inflation is always a result of a sudden production shock
r0nin-: sorry mircea
r0nin-: every single assclown brings up zimbabwe or weimer as their lame example of 'hyperinflation' without every understanding what happened there
mircea_popescu: this is high art on the level of the holy tonsilectomy.
r0nin-: money printing occurs AFTER the inflation started, not before it.
r0nin-: prices go up, the economy requires more money to pay it, and its a cycle
r0nin-: higher interest rates = higher inflation.
mircea_popescu: let's try and get some basics welded down. do you understand "inflation" is the phenomenon of mismatched currency and goods ?
r0nin-: thats why all the tards got it totally wrong with the 'dollar collapse'
r0nin-: yes mircea.
mircea_popescu: ok. so then : when you run a trade deficit, you are NOT exporting currency and importing goods..
r0nin-: yes you are.
mircea_popescu: you are exporting goods and importing goods.
r0nin-: in the case of the Uk and US you are
r0nin-: lol what goods is the Uk exporting?
mircea_popescu: this leaves you with the unbacked currency, and it becomes more and more unbacked as the trade deficit progresses.
r0nin-: no fiat currency is backed by anything.
mircea_popescu: r0nin- http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-19#1700737☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-19 15:30 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform here, you'll lulz : largest 2016 export was 42bn worth of gold.
r0nin-: its entirely based on the issuers promise to take it back from you in payment of taxes
mircea_popescu: dja understand this ? the "not household" household of uk just sold its wedding ring and buttplug.
r0nin-: mircea: the UK imports way more goods/services from the world then it 'exports
mircea_popescu: r0nin- china doesn't pay fucking taxes to the uk. you'll take it back in exchange for fucking gibraltar is what you'll do.
r0nin-: china is inccuring massive costs by exporting
mircea_popescu: r0nin- and my slavegirls eat more than they shit. this makes their ass mine. not the other fucking way around
r0nin-: pollution, sick labor force etc.
mircea_popescu: because in any disagreement of oppinion, he with the trade balance wins.
r0nin-: export is a COST.
r0nin-: the entire premise of a country is to minimize costs and maximize gains, so send as little as possible while importing as much as possible
r0nin-: italians understood this best with 5000euro purses.
mircea_popescu: heh.
r0nin-: mircea: the UK does not have a shortage of goods on shelves for plebs to buy. it may have problems with income distribution.
mircea_popescu: countries run by 12 year old girls, and then they wonder why a) there's no further demand for white males and b) the cuckening.
mircea_popescu: r0nin- it does. for instance -- housing.
mircea_popescu: worst fucking shithole in all of europe, as far as that's concerned.
r0nin-: well i agree the place is miserable
r0nin-: but it was always a shithole throughout the last 500 years.
mircea_popescu: even 1960s soviets had better houses. how about that for "Shelves".
r0nin-: 19th century london was one massive slum
mircea_popescu: mno, actually, before hitler quashed it it was doing ok-ish.
r0nin-: the first of its kind worldwide
r0nin-: no it wasnt. all the aristocrats were completely broke from jewish loans taken out in the 19th century in order to pretend they are like the romans
r0nin-: hence all the villas littered on the countryside
mircea_popescu: was doing a fuckload better before the introduction of the telegraph empowered the englishtarded concentration of administration. somehow they newver learned anything out of the america defeat.
r0nin-: churchhill was so broke he literally sent family members to america to beg for money for appearances sake
mircea_popescu: but anyway, back when "english" essentially meant dutch, it was doing just fine.
r0nin-: https://www.amazon.com/Churchill-Jews-Friendship-Martin-Gilbert/dp/0805088644
r0nin-: this is one of the best books about england at the time you are referencing
r0nin-: churchhills family was indebted for the last 120 years
mircea_popescu: why does this matter ?
r0nin-: because the british empire that you so praise was nothing more than a common understanding of 2 groups
r0nin-: english aristocracy and jewish finance
mircea_popescu: so ?
r0nin-: and it ended in disaster.
r0nin-: consequences to which we are living in today
mircea_popescu: well, they misjudged hitler and he frucked them. this was ~common at the time.
r0nin-: britian dragged the dumb german kaiser into WW1 because the german industrial base had surpassed anything england could have imagined and he began building a navy
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: hey, this much we agree on.
r0nin-: because as you correctly pointed out earlier, they dont protect their industries
r0nin-: germans did
mircea_popescu: they still do. for all that poverty, they actually got the 4th reich going over there.
r0nin-: UK leaving the EU will lead to a dramatic decline in the standard of living for everyone there, since they will no longer be subsidized with goods from europe
r0nin-: hence the pound tanking
mircea_popescu: the decline has nothing to do with that. uk has been on a decline path since indeed, 1800s, and will continue to decline. and because their women are ugly, there's no italian parachute under their ass either. wales is a fine example of where england ends up.
mircea_popescu: or if you prefer, historical scotland.
r0nin-: i agree
r0nin-: england will end up an irrelevent island of pastey fucks
r0nin-: even the cuisine is shit
r0nin-: my original point was you are wrong on trade deficits
trinque: that's not a point, you idiot. make one.
mircea_popescu: but the ~reason~ for it is very much found in 1600s trade policy. the dutch had open trade, the english wanted all trade to go through london. their centralist, counterproductive approach is what sunk them. they kept getting freebies, such as when the dutch moved over under wilhelm to become "english", but by and large uk is a thrown rock. it goes down.
r0nin-: what sunk them was free trade
mircea_popescu: and the reason british empire was dying already by the time hitler cut its head off was that the brits in their idiocy wanted all the various policies in india etc to be set from london.
r0nin-: the english model has always been built on usury
r0nin-: usury as the source of value in the economy
mircea_popescu: i'm not sure what that's supposed to mean.
r0nin-: germans understood in 19th century that labor creates wealth not staring at gold coins all day
mircea_popescu: there's a time-value of money, what.
r0nin-: thats a made up excuse
r0nin-: there is no time value of money
r0nin-: if you take 2 gold coins and put them in a shelf are they going to copulate and have children?
mircea_popescu: "labor creates wealth" is unilateral nonsense, one of the three flavours available. what creates wealth is labour well applied to capital goods. that's people + management + tools.
r0nin-: yes
r0nin-: exactly
r0nin-: and what is capital goods?
mircea_popescu: the time value of money comes preciselty from the "well applied" part.
r0nin-: previously stored labor.
mircea_popescu: because management has to decide optimal usage of capital goods and labour, and thereby there's a time-value of both of these.
r0nin-: previously stored labor(credit) + labor(present) = future wealth.
r0nin-: there is no other way.
mircea_popescu: in labour that's a wage, in capital that's an interest.
r0nin-: dude how does your money 'breed'?
r0nin-: and have children(interest)
r0nin-: explain that to me
r0nin-: its sterile
mircea_popescu: i just explained this yest, amusingly enough. here : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-18#1700427☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-18 22:41 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform your notion of money is broken in that you misunderstand its materiality.
r0nin-: england believed that by hoarding gold coins they would be getting 'rich', so they ran massive trade surpluses at the beginning of their shitty empire
r0nin-: which led to immense poverty inside england
r0nin-: becuase once again how does exporting real goods/services and hoarding gold make you rich? lolz
r0nin-: this is exactly what china is doing now
mircea_popescu: nobody gives a shit about "poverty". let the plebs fucking croak.
mircea_popescu: that's what they're for.
r0nin-: englands next genius idea was to impose the gold standard onto the economy and completely choke it
r0nin-: because newton said so
mircea_popescu: the correct approach is rendering the idiotas for fat. as stalin did, as china does, as everyone who's worth two shits ever did.
mircea_popescu: everything else is decay.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo so what's the story, is flake making it in az ?
mircea_popescu: and in other lulz, how the fuck is it that the libertard media omit to point out melania is fucking hot, unlike that fat mammie obama dragged along ?
mircea_popescu: are the cuntlets threatened a little or what is it ? no moar glamour for 1st lady ?
mircea_popescu: http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2017/08/18/gettyimages-632914834_wide-d8a9d3c24306ed3d1f4309b438991c94c1b85680-s800-c85.jpg << back in january (2017) talking to putin. all that's left is the phone now
mircea_popescu: ahhh, taking in the feverish pitch of libertard rage is actually quite relaxing. take this foxy lady : https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/18/opinion/sunday/president-trump-resignation.html
mircea_popescu: !!up spyked
deedbot: spyked voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: got a pgp key ?
spyked: hello, #trilemans. :)
spyked: mircea_popescu, yep
mircea_popescu: !!help
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/help.html
spyked: should be registered I think
mircea_popescu: !!key spyked
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/0x541A976BB5FC4B455D7FBC61BDAE9D051A3D3B95.asc
mircea_popescu: aha!
spyked: I tried to do some homework before joining here. still a shitload left.
mircea_popescu: !!rate spyked 2 aka Lucian Mogosanu, arm guy and other things. e-known him for years.
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/lAVCu/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: !!v 80E4122B2D7A0C1A5C85B9473A2559552A7366C7C965CA27D7AFD9FEEF659366
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated spyked 2 << aka Lucian Mogosanu, arm guy and other things. e-known him for years.
mircea_popescu: spyked you can self-voice. got an ice ?
spyked: no. what's an ice?
mircea_popescu: you know, originally tmsr embeddable work was done on xilinx. recently discovered superior alternative,
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ice40
mircea_popescu: (the other prong being, of course, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1667 )
spyked: hm. I'ma read about it. I only used xilinx FPGAs myself
mircea_popescu: the idea is to take the wintel blobs out of the fabrication line.
spyked: oh. so reverse engineering the blobs and/or reimplementing? that's actually pretty neat
mircea_popescu: either/or. but generally throwing out and redoing comes up a lot
mircea_popescu: spyked you know what a mac ivory is ?
spyked: nope, and google doesn't seem to help too much. :\
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ivory does tho
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ivory << better search than google. anyway, ancient tech, symbolics co. lisp machines from teh 80s. there's (some, limited) effort to cut up the chips / redo the whole thing.
mircea_popescu: in theory it could be fit on a fpga.
spyked: hm. this is neat stuff. I know opencores had some free Lisp FPGA designs. never tried any of them though.
mircea_popescu: turns out the whole hello & welcome works out a lot better when i don't have to ask "so who are you". who could have predictated.
spyked: my initial thought on getting a Lisp machine run was using a RISC machine as microcode. and implement the whole thing bare metal in software. it's a lot cheaper, albeit probably hard to verify
mircea_popescu: spyked the thing you used to search btw, runs in lisp.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes btw can has candi back ?
spyked: I'm guessing a lot of people here use Lisp for their implementations. :) I got into it after first reading asciilifeform's laws of sane computing
mircea_popescu: spyked ahaha, phd in os security ? we had one of your students here last week! http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-16#1698946☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-16 17:07 valica_: https://ocw.cs.pub.ro/courses/sasc
mircea_popescu: spyked is acs.pub.ro supposed to be down ?
spyked: btw, I'm working (at snail's pace) on getting a somewhat workable blog software in Common Lisp
mircea_popescu: why ?
spyked: mircea_popescu, no. lol. nobody's working in the uni during this time of year. I'm expecting it to come back up... in September maybe
mircea_popescu: right, it's a holiday, i intuited.
spyked: I don't like Wordpress, so I decided to roll my own
mircea_popescu: yes, but prioritits. there's larger fires burning.
spyked: true, but it seemed like a good idea at the time. and I can do it incrementally (the current blog works. it lacks comments, that may piss people off, but it's not like I get too many readers)
mircea_popescu: there's that.
spyked: anyway, I'm interested in getting a Lisp machine up. also, getting a trb node up once I get some hardware for it
mircea_popescu: re http://thetarpit.org/posts/y03/057-reversing-lists.html you know the story of thomson's compilers yes ?
spyked: mircea_popescu, no. I know Inria guys made a verified compiler. with the caveat of "abstract nonsense". anyway, tmsr search yields stuff :)
mircea_popescu: :p
mircea_popescu: are you aware i think your "formal" model is a piece of shit from paragraph one ?
mircea_popescu: you're equivocating between definition and constructor! wtf is "a list is... : is the list making operator so a list is 1:2:[]" nonsense!
mircea_popescu: what's wrong with "a list is an enumerated set" ? which is what a list is.
mircea_popescu: it's a set, and enumerated because computers lack the ability to construct ~described~ sets, such as "the set of prime numbers" or w/e.
spyked: hm. you mean, there's a long way from "enumerated set" to 1:2:[] which I skipped?
mircea_popescu: im not sure there's any way whatsoever.
mircea_popescu: but in my experience, generally people take refuge in minutia when scared of biting the problem. wtf difference does it make how i construct an enumerated set, maybe i push icecubes off the table into the paper bin with my penis.
mircea_popescu: and this 1 2 3 4 bs implying metered and measured and ordered and whatnot. aaanyway, /me reads on.
mircea_popescu: spyked no, see, you already reference "arbitrary order" without having even discussed the matter. why is a list ordered ? how is it ordered ? can penis pushe ice cubes not be a set ?
spyked: yeah, it was very easy to conflate "list can be described as either nil, or pair between something and a list" and "list is defined as". I could rewrite sometime if you think it's worth it; I don't think it is, I was just trying to show how reasoning about software isn't trivial even when you have a framework for that, let alone when void *p = ...;
mircea_popescu: "We may informally state that "reversing a given list yields the list which has the same elements but in the exact opposite order (e.g. right-to-left, as opposed to left-to-right)", but we have no way of accurately specifying this in our language other than by defining rev and postulating that "rev reverses any given list". The same goes for appending lists."
mircea_popescu: except... what does "left" mean ?!
mircea_popescu: it ends up as being an example as to why it is hard to think about systems if one's very inclined to unhygienically import random unknowns into the workbench.
spyked: which was discussed here before, yeah. not new I guess
mircea_popescu: spyked jesus god T1...
mircea_popescu: this is terrible.
spyked: the whole thing is. and yes, this is "formal verification 101" taught in universities. if you want to get even more outraged about it, read Heiser's post at the beginning.
mircea_popescu: no, i have a weak heart.
spyked: he has a start-up where he employed an army of "proof engineers" to work on systems verification. I'm pretty skeptical about it, since I tried very hard to understand his papers some years ago and now it's completely paged out of my brain
mircea_popescu: the problem with getting "engineers" to construct proofs in this vein is that engineers have too much monkey in them. "doctor, doctor, if i shove it in this way it works!"
mircea_popescu: this is nice, especially when found magic weapon in the field. but also very useless.
asciilifeform: spyked: hi
mircea_popescu: anyway, tell me, do you know this choudary fellow ?
asciilifeform: spyked: ever heard of 'fits in head' concept ?
spyked: hi, asciilifeform
spyked: mircea_popescu, yes, he's an assistant prof. in the cs department. works on crypto and some hardware stuff (side channel analysis)
spyked: asciilifeform, yep, on #trilema :)
mircea_popescu: is he clever ?
asciilifeform: gotta love how the 'side channel analysis' people ~to this day~ have not produced a fixed-time rsa.
mircea_popescu: it's not clear they undersrand that the world was created by men.
mircea_popescu: perhaps it was god-given ? came out of the pantsuited hilarity's hairy snatch ? who knows.
spyked: he's okay, we chatted a few times, but I don't know him very well. it's hard to judge most people in the faculty higher than by "mint rubber or not", and he's pretty hard working at least.
mircea_popescu: spyked anyway, if in your estimation guy's not an idiot invite him over next you see him, i want to personally cuss him out for that terrible "advanced" crypto thing wtf is it.
mircea_popescu: o shit. mintrubbing.org!
asciilifeform: re 'formal verification', what a lol
mircea_popescu: http://www.mintrubbing.org/ << gone ;/
spyked: sure thing. I can reference the Trilema posts on crypto
asciilifeform: what's a 'mint rubber' ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ro idiomatic, to do nothing on govt pay.
asciilifeform: aaah
mircea_popescu: sort of like a self-licking ice cone, except these'd be the lickers.
spyked: mircea_popescu, Poli survives on local socialist democrats. I don't know how to compare those guys to West pantsuit.
mircea_popescu: was possibly romania's first online item, a joint blog/ezine thing
asciilifeform: vs what other academics?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ro social-democrats are rather a sort of "central republicans".
mircea_popescu: they're historically pro-russia and pro-independence, grudgingly pro-eu cuz "da people". but otherwise populist and strong in the equiv of us red areas.
asciilifeform had nfi
mircea_popescu: whereas romanian "right" at least in the sense of, parliamentarily, is very much washington democrats, all into eu bureaucracy and occasionally inadequate liberal economic policies.
spyked: anyway, the one and only advantage of UPB CS department is that for now it still has the resources to bring up smart people, most of which unfortunately turn into goog/fb/whatever employees. I don't think that's gonna last for long though. wish it did, but...
spyked: I resisted many attempts to turn the "programming paradigms" (Lisp/Haskell/Prolog) course into a Java thing.
mircea_popescu: eh, the paradigm gotta shift from this pasty ass "ima try and make a lot of moneyz so maybe im left with something after wife dolchstoss)
diana_coman: oh hi spyked ; are you still at UPB?
spyked: (many attempts of colleagues)
spyked: hi diana_coman. somewhat. I resigned a year ago, but I'm around for various teaching stuff and wasting time on PhDing.
diana_coman: o.O ; there used to be giumale's programare functionala - quite an eye opener that course
diana_coman: don't tell me it's java now...
spyked: thank god no. most of the course is the same.
mircea_popescu: re http://thetarpit.org/posts/y03/04e-the-myth-of-software-engineering-iii.html << hjere's the thing, let's posit that an object larger than what fits in head can not exist. this may seem counterintuitive, but it happens to also be correct. now, the direct solution to the problems of "exponential dependencies" and "clarity of purpose" and so on is that these have to be defined by domain boundaries. once you have this implemen
mircea_popescu: ted, ie, natural size + natural boundaries, you are left with a pile of usable tools which naturally construct a solution for any ~possible~ problem.
mircea_popescu: software is the worst offender here, but hardware is also pretty bad. consider -- i don't want to buy "A fridge", i should buy standardized compressor units, and so on. why do i want "the fridge" ? there's no need to debate "whirlpool" vs "obamacare". compare discrete items.
spyked: diana_coman, but giumale retired. btw, I know he made a Lisp machine clone back in the 80s. the hardware might be lying around somewhere in the faculty.
spyked: mircea_popescu, I agree. do you mean"the fridge" as in somewhat close to the platonic fridge?
mircea_popescu: romania's computer independence program huh.
mircea_popescu: spyked consider that most consumer products come kitted anyway, and when you buy a car your question is "well is the engine from mexico or brazil or germany ? is this the original transmission ?" etc.
mircea_popescu: i assemble my computer out of parts to no great sufferance, and get for my trouble a much better computer than any of the pre-made buying dorks.
mircea_popescu: and i bet you have ikea shit within eyesight right now.
spyked: (not really. :) desk was custom made)
mircea_popescu: so chechen kalash copy ?
mircea_popescu: ie, was custom made out of ikea materials by a local craftsman with shittier tools ?
asciilifeform: spyked: i'd be curious to see the ro lm
mircea_popescu: btw, incredible enough how the borz is not in the logs! pot metal smg yo!
spyked: it's cheap enough to hire a carpenter that I didn't need to buy ikea. and yeah, it's probably cheaper
asciilifeform: docs/srcs more even than machine per se
mircea_popescu: spyked was it a cartpenter you hired, ie, a guy who worked in wood, or was it an ikea clonal system you hired, ie a guy who went to a central warehouse where they cut some glue-dust planks to his spec ?
shinohai: http://archive.is/AWXjR <<< no confederate flag? BOYCOT
diana_coman: mircea_popescu> romania's computer independence program huh. <- most of the old profs at UPB that I still got to know had worked on some parts of that from what I gathered
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i could've sworn we did borz
asciilifeform: and skorpion
diana_coman: prolly all dead/retired by now
spyked: mircea_popescu, obviously second, lol.
mircea_popescu: well then.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman aha. most of anything left standing were parts of that. "greaua mostenire a epocii ceausescu"
spyked: asciilifeform, I'll ask around, see if I can dig stuff out of the archives (assuming there are archives)
mircea_popescu: spyked see, the thing with orc lands is that they have this. borz, chechen made smg. the egyptians made engine parts to VISUAL spec, by hand. i saw this. guy here offered to produce a replacement pressure hose for me, by visual inspection.
mircea_popescu: this is artisanship, after a fashion, but not to be confused with the genuine article imo.
mircea_popescu: they're the ~copies~ of minoan vases produced in syria, not the actual minoan vases.
spyked: yeah, but must still be of some use though. I don't know if there's even a genuine Lisp machine in ro
mircea_popescu: anyway. the point being that competition should happen on narrower elements.
mircea_popescu: cli works fine because of the | and so on.
mircea_popescu: the correct move is towards a |ing of hardware, and of software, and everything else.
mircea_popescu: if i decide to reconfigure my car into an electric generator or a super strenght fridge or lawn mower or helicopter, I SHOULD BE FUCKING ABLE TO.
mircea_popescu: generation of kids who all loved legos and their world is more fragmented in stupider ways than the 1600s mercantilist world. wtf.
asciilifeform: did we ever do hitler's yacht ?
asciilifeform: it was a diesel-electric. was taken as spoils by su, and briefly was the only source of mains current in odessa when asciilifeform's father moved there as a boy
asciilifeform: reconfigured into genset
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-19#1701101 << much moar schmeisser than kalash really☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-19 19:13 mircea_popescu: so chechen kalash copy ?
mircea_popescu: well in truth it was kind of a single name for many random items
spyked: asciilifeform, found something (in romanian) http://www.atic.org.ro/ktml2/files/uploads/Masina%20DIALISP.pdf there's also a more detailed english version on ACM sci-hub http://dl.acm.org.sci-hub.cc/citation.cfm?id=802028#
asciilifeform: lol 'junkyard wars' scheme79
BingoBoingo: <r0nin-> tahts why you go to US and see everyone in new BMWs << LOL, which US are you smoking?
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo so what's the story, is flake making it in az ? << My lulz scroted crystal ball is hazy at the moment
jurov: https://i.imgur.com/KzTKHfO
BingoBoingo: !~later tell r0nin- I don't talk privates with stangers
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: Shame this poor mother can't send the author back for a warranty claim. https://archive.is/phQzk
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/08/boston-free-speech-rally-quashed-by-pro-censorship-forces-pickup-truck-bed-flag-index-climbs/ << Qntra - Boston Free Speech Rally Quashed By Pro-Censorship Forces, Pickup Truck Bed Flag Index Climbs
mircea_popescu: !!up valentinbuza
deedbot: voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: ahhh bbq
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-19#1701132 << lovely☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-19 19:29 spyked: asciilifeform, found something (in romanian) http://www.atic.org.ro/ktml2/files/uploads/Masina%20DIALISP.pdf there's also a more detailed english version on ACM sci-hub http://dl.acm.org.sci-hub.cc/citation.cfm?id=802028#
phf: fwiw, if the goal is to put an existing lisp machine onto an fpga, then i don't think macivory is a particularly good target. the goal would be to run Genera, which is severely lacking sources for critical components.
mircea_popescu: i was just providing him entry points
phf adjusts his pocket protector
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: why genera though ?