log
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mircea_popescu: anwyay, perhaps best historical example of the "problem -- ill posed" bit is the history of the sewing machine.
mircea_popescu: and re latin : it should be noted that it was by no means a maximally simple, or a maximally adequate-to-human-experience language. it was however ~correctly~ complicated, which to date is its foremost value.
mircea_popescu: "if you're going to complicate -- complicate like latin, don't complicate like puritan society or any other barbarian non-people"
mircea_popescu: in the same vein, the early 1900s investigations into the meaning and structure of number resulted in a correctly complicated notion, from riemann functions to cantor's sets and so on. this is at great variance with non-fields like "artificial intelligence" or say alf's favourite, postmodern qm (say string theory or w/e) -- which evidently are incorrectly complicated even if it's not always evident where exactly.
shinohai: https://dayton.craigslist.org/sys/6201338395.html "you can always sell the bitcoin and buy ether."
shinohai: (-_\)
mircea_popescu: lol
BingoBoingo: Well, gotta remember post-modernism and "social justice" were the actual KGB/Soviet plot to undermine west
BingoBoingo: Roosevelt just fertilized ground with his bully bullshit
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2500.08, vol: 4560.03660208 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2464.201, vol: 1952.86003 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2468.0, vol: 7779.68293227 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2549.010269, vol: 4006.95730000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2502.999, vol: 3058.36567106 | Volume-weighted last average: 2494.71196232
mod6: mornin'
asciilifeform: in other lulz, http://bitbet.us >> 404
asciilifeform: ( for at least 2d )
mod6: dude vanished 'eh?
asciilifeform: hey 1 time vanished for ~month and 'no problem'
shinohai: Maybe new owner is busy znorting the profitz ?
shinohai: (ba dum TISS)
phf: https://archive.is/lyT2j << "The American college graduate allegedly beaten to death by a gang of 10 people in Greece was an aspiring entrepreneur who was visiting the country to launch his own fashion line." ☟︎
asciilifeform: phf: http://qntra.net/2017/07/american-student-investor-lynched-in-greece/ earlier
phf: ... i quoted it from qntra apparently
shinohai: !!up EIC
deedbot: EIC voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-10#1681164 << amusingly this was discussed a coupla times in the logs, naive "owner" in thailands. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-10 14:59 phf: https://archive.is/lyT2j << "The American college graduate allegedly beaten to death by a gang of 10 people in Greece was an aspiring entrepreneur who was visiting the country to launch his own fashion line."
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that was my first thought when the qntra thing appeared but when went to look for it, LOST IT AGAIN!11
asciilifeform: at this rate i'ma end up keeping paper notebooks again.
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: what are we going to od ?!
mircea_popescu: and in other overachievers, http://68.media.tumblr.com/563433a61a5162c0b7e7acad51ca9ed7/tumblr_ojxn4tCUnT1s5m6tyo1_1280.jpg
mod6: :]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in other lulz, https://whycardano.com
asciilifeform: didjaknow.
mircea_popescu: lemme guess, it conveniently makes fries on the side ? LIBERTY fries ?
mircea_popescu: funny how nobody from the "concerned" peanut gallery is there on the congress floor uninvited every day, "hey guise, remember that time when oyu decided to rechristian french fries ? what happened to that ??? I THINK THE USD IS WORTHLESS!!!"\
mircea_popescu: dat hipocrisy hunting, and its remarkably directional application.
asciilifeform: 'Find a healthy middle ground for regulators to interact with commerce without compromising some core principles inherited from Bitcoin'
asciilifeform: didjaknow.
mircea_popescu: heh
mircea_popescu: i eagerlyexpect the imperial "fuckgoats" bowdlerization
mircea_popescu: i also do not expect we will ever call anything outside of the "pussygraber" "yesmeansanal" etc antipantsuit set
asciilifeform: aha, i can't think of any good reason to.
mircea_popescu: "that weird cult that calls everything by unprintable names inexplicably because we try to run off with any other names they use hur durr"
asciilifeform: 'weirdos who eat garlic with every dinner because we keep trying to vampirize'em'
mircea_popescu: it's exactly how it goes, too. and the funny thing is, the braindead vat dwellers actually go by that.
mircea_popescu: moar win-win has scarcely ever been seen in the history of human stupidity.
mircea_popescu: direct calque off the inept old woman "oh, tell all the young women not to go to the rape hut!!!" except , of course, the sort of girl that'd listen nobody wants there in the first place.
mircea_popescu: (for the anthropocurious : there's three types of primitive civilisation known to either theory or practice. all three had a female hut, where the women did their woman shit. one of them had a male hut where they got drunk and dragged unwilling sexual partners by the hair. another had a male hut where they mostly sat idly about. the final one had no male hut at all, like the chimps, and thereby is very dubiosly a civilisation
mircea_popescu: at all.)
mircea_popescu: and yes, both gerousia and roman senate come off the first branch.
mircea_popescu: and in other "cheap whore under the opposite delusion fittingly depicted atop cheap couch on cheap plastic flooring", http://68.media.tumblr.com/475c27b3bf85f5ee0fe1d2b344939189/tumblr_onxl0wT7jK1w8x9u1o1_1280.jpg
BingoBoingo: At least knows to keep butthole off of dirty cheap plastic
BingoBoingo: "functional clothing"
mircea_popescu: and at happy teen camp, http://68.media.tumblr.com/b40607635b9d1d72440bd1ead172e7fa/tumblr_oqtcsfkq2R1robtkso1_500.gif
BingoBoingo: "Rooney Mara’s character, grieving the death of her lover (Casey Affleck), returns home to find a pie left in her kitchen by a sympathetic friend or neighbor. As the bedsheet-clad ghost of her beloved looks on, Mara’s character, known only as M, unwraps the pie, sinks to the kitchen floor, and devours almost the entire thing in a five-minute, uninterrupted sequence before suddenly dashing to a nearby bathroom to throw up." << Films W
BingoBoingo: aPo reviews for "our democracy", pussygrab 2020!
mircea_popescu: hey, gotta speak to your audience.
BingoBoingo: Other critics on said "cultural milestone": "Rooney attacks that pie like a cake person, engineering such unusual fork scoops (she stabs the pie at least four times before each bite) that I started to wonder whether the actress had even ever seen a pie before. We all do weird things when dealing with grief, but I was tickled by the fact that Mara’s bizarre pie-eating method still managed to leave the crust mostly intact."
BingoBoingo: Our democracy however does not care to speak at all about parallels between protagonist of film who is a "bedsheet ghost" and Klan uniform which is also "bedsheet ghost"
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2013/america-and-intellectual-relevance/#selection-276.0-276.1
BingoBoingo unsure that this isn't new levels of irtellectuan int-L-evance
mircea_popescu: meanwhile at python club, http://68.media.tumblr.com/09efcf8b8c0fb3eb22584f95b91c178c/tumblr_op6zh9mWjs1vlase7o1_1280.jpg
asciilifeform: in other noose, ACHTUNG PANZERS, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-29#1676331 nao 1.99s. ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-29 19:57 asciilifeform: in other noose ! nao we have comba's algo multiplier as basecase in karatsuba (currently threshold 8 words) , and http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-21#1673165 becomes now 7.5sec
mircea_popescu: o hey
asciilifeform: this with 0 asm
asciilifeform: and 0 parallelism
mircea_popescu: nice
mircea_popescu: this is 2sec per exp mult is it ?
asciilifeform: correct.
asciilifeform: 8192bits in particular.
mircea_popescu: what's a 4kb keygen, gotta look for the primes, say a few hundred emults ?
asciilifeform: depends whether you get lucky, lol
mircea_popescu: yes, but i mean as the middle of distribution
asciilifeform goes to the torture room answer this q empirically
asciilifeform: *to
mircea_popescu: kk
mircea_popescu: it's conceivable 2s is actually good enough (tm)
asciilifeform: sooo a 4096b rsa key takes about a dozen modexp's, on avg, on gpg 1.4.10 ☟︎
mircea_popescu: splendid.
asciilifeform: a 8192b key, not yet known, because gotta patch it to even allow one
mod6: <+asciilifeform> and 0 parallelism << cool!
mircea_popescu: i don't want 8kb keys
asciilifeform: i'm writing a proggy meant to be wholly devoid of 640isenoughforeverybody-isms
mircea_popescu: this is sane in any other case but key size.
mircea_popescu: do teh math, if 8kb rsa key is preferable to 4kb rsa key, there's fundamental problems with rsa that make it useless anyway.
mircea_popescu: and this nonsense of offering faux meaningless choice a la kochpgp is unwelcome and shouldn't be perpetuated. keys are 4kb and forget about it.
mircea_popescu: and not even 4096 bits, there's a whole speccing discussion re this in teh logs
asciilifeform: i ain't putting idiot magic numbers in. anywhere.
asciilifeform: not happening.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well there is that. nor should you. butwhat happens to 8kb keys is of ~0 interest nevertheless.
asciilifeform: at any rate a p proggy starts with the register bitness
asciilifeform: aite
asciilifeform: incidentally, mircea_popescu's argument could just as readily be made re 4096 vs 2048 etc
asciilifeform: each theoretically 'needs multiple planets' to break via traditional methods
mircea_popescu: not so. why i said do the math : cracking 4kb key the hard way exceeds the universe. this is a categorical argument, substantially different from "i could compute 2 bit key by enumeration on napkin"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no. one needs multiple planets, the other exceeds matter.
asciilifeform: i can think of other considerations, as in the thread with the exponents
mircea_popescu: where the fuck is that tmsr-standard-rsa-key discussion
asciilifeform: on mircea_popescu's www iirc
mircea_popescu: o it was ? i was murdering the logsearch
asciilifeform: lol kochgpg ends up computing garbage if the 4096 cap is removed
mircea_popescu: guaranteed bug you found.
asciilifeform: betcha nobody ever tested its bignumtron with longer ints..
asciilifeform: 'doctor, it hurts...'
mircea_popescu: ie, koch bignum dun actulaly work.
asciilifeform: fwiw mine -- worx
asciilifeform: kB, mB, dunmatter.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-03#1513696 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-08-03 04:34 mircea_popescu: actually to formalize that : a 4096 bits key means a p that is 257 to 259 bytes long ; and a q that is 258 to 260 bytes long. end of fucking story.
asciilifeform: aactually bug in my gpg torturetron, so :
mircea_popescu: ^ very specific what a key is. not "interchangeable p and q"
asciilifeform reruns the test
mircea_popescu: (yes this yields keys slightly longer than 4kb. good.)
asciilifeform: ok actual answer is about 100. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what i had also.
asciilifeform: ( modexps per 4096 mod )
mircea_popescu: it is entirely acceptable for proper keygen to take up to a few hours. 200 seconds is actually exceedingly fast.
asciilifeform: will be moar if greater millerrabin margin is used , also
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's another thing i would like : a graph of the relation of the m-r failure rate to the a) entropy quality and b) margin.
mircea_popescu: ie, is the relative impact cuadratic or subquadratic ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this'd be an interesting adjunct to the dh tests even. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: which incidentally brings us to a very workable and very useful tmsr definition of entropy quality : take a FG string. flip a number of consecutive bits to 1. the result is your entropy quality, such as 100/1mb if you flipped 100 bits. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes.
mircea_popescu: could also be derived mathematically, but so far've not managed to.
shinohai: https://github.com/btc1/bitcoin/issues/65 <<< This Summer, even the testnet forks.
asciilifeform: 'mathematics of computation' vol. 61, no. 203, july 1993, pp. 177-194 ( https://www.math.dartmouth.edu//~carlp/PDF/paper88.pdf << yes it's a scan, ain't got another ) appears to give the desired bounds for miller-rabin.
mircea_popescu: oh ?
mircea_popescu: now i gotta read a pdf
asciilifeform keeps dedicated iron around for the purpose
mod6: how come they don't publish these things in ascii like normal people?
mircea_popescu: possibly maffds
asciilifeform: mod6: if ~you~ type it up, it'll be ascii...
mod6: ah right. still sux tho.
mod6: asciilifeform: lol indeed.
shinohai curled it and piped through pdf2text, seems readable ....
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for completeness, exp with 4096 operands takes ~0.3s. per. on current ffa.
mircea_popescu: not terrible even
asciilifeform: *4096b
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i had actually read this text, though pretty sure not in this paper. but i recall the 100,10 bounds etc
mircea_popescu: this is still less than my graph.
mircea_popescu: they have the p k, 1 < 4 ** (2 - sqrt(k))* k**2 , which is useful, but i also want the p k, m
asciilifeform: prolly hadamard's thing re prime distribution is the closest we're likely to get to an exact answer
mircea_popescu: i would very much like an exact bound, rather than an exact solution
asciilifeform: which is frustrating because you can't resort to 'empirical test' here , because circular, there EXISTS NO 'gold rng'
asciilifeform: hey wouldn'tit be spiffy if we had an exact answer re prime distribution, lol
mircea_popescu: what do you mean there exists no gold rng ?
asciilifeform: recall the dh thread
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform by my lights, exact answer re prime distribution prerequisite to trivial factorization of rsa.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, i recall.
asciilifeform: there is no 'gold standard' to which i could compare fg, etc
mircea_popescu: there is no gold standard to which you could compare the gold standard ?
asciilifeform: aha!11lolyes
mircea_popescu: does this make you suffer greatly ?
asciilifeform: not usually.
asciilifeform: but sometimes it is inconvenient.
mircea_popescu: aite, me either.
asciilifeform: now for another little mindfuck,
asciilifeform: same figure sans karatsuba : 3.7s.
asciilifeform: ( alert reader will ask, what did i change ? answer : 1) comba 2) gcc -O2 (this keeps all bounds checks and dun do anything aggressive, just peepholes) )
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in tit-hello, http://68.media.tumblr.com/5bbc9e2c1caaf38357bb956d156600f6/tumblr_oimi8cQ5Xq1uwwy5ko1_1280.jpg
mod6: asciilifeform: huh
asciilifeform: mod6: i was running with -g -O0 previously, lol
mod6: oh -g
asciilifeform: aha, it also
mod6: im retarded, what is 'comba' ?
asciilifeform: !#s comba
a111: 6 results for "comba", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=comba
mod6: cheers
mod6: oohh right. thx
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-10#1681267 << cool ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-10 19:50 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this'd be an interesting adjunct to the dh tests even.
mircea_popescu: it's generally a pity people don't use numerical methods more.
mircea_popescu: got all this iron, let's do dumbass bayesianisms on it, instead of you know, what people correctly did up to the 90s or so.
asciilifeform: mod6: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/RxYkz/?raw=true
asciilifeform: btw, nobody's exempt from having to eventually grasp how ^ worx
asciilifeform: so may as well get head start.
asciilifeform: incidentally, (imaginary) prize to the first d00d who understands why this had to be rewritten with the loops indexing from 0 .. L-1, rather than, e.g., for i in X'Range ... as formerly
asciilifeform: rot13 spoiler: Nqn neenl fyvprf xrrc gur 'Svefg naq 'Ynfg bs jurerire va gur cnerag gurl pnzr sebz! sbe fbzr ernfba guvf vf abg zragvbarq naljurer ohg va gur fgnaqneq. Xnengfhon bs pbhefr raqf hc vaibxvat gur onfrpnfr zhygvcyvre jvgu fyvprf gung qba'g ortva jvgu mreb, naq gb qrfgvangvba neenl gung yvxrjvfr qbrfa'g. Fb jr tbggn abeznyvmr.
mod6: asciilifeform: thx, will read
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this sounds like the ugliest of hacks.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it ain't tho.
mircea_popescu: why does ada do that, anyway ?
asciilifeform: because not doing it would lead to increased ugly.
asciilifeform: though i also found it at first difficult to understand why.
mircea_popescu: i realyl don't like this "and now we magic-variable the numbers". it's one step up from magic constant
asciilifeform: slices are not arrays in their own right, they are offsets into another array
mircea_popescu: ok...
asciilifeform: and ergo retain the original's indexing.
asciilifeform: so you can get it back from a slice
mircea_popescu: wouldn't it actually be proper to copy the slice into its own array ?
asciilifeform: no!!!!
asciilifeform: that ain't called a sloce
asciilifeform: *slice
asciilifeform: that's a copy, we do this also sometimes.
mircea_popescu: wouldn't it be actually proper to copy the slice into its own array and to maintain a pairing of slices and new arrays ; rather trhan do index magics on the mult code ?
asciilifeform: nope. blows the cache.
asciilifeform: and bloats the algo.
asciilifeform: worst of all worlds.
mircea_popescu: i didn't say practical, i was just going with proper
asciilifeform: seekrit : in the 'most fascist' restriction mode, ada... copies slices
mircea_popescu: aha
asciilifeform: ( behind the curtain )
mod6: ah.
asciilifeform: (no_implicit_loops pragma iirc)
mod6: i've read, so far seems ok -- i've got to wrap my mind around the second ("high loop") as I did before.
mod6: gotta take it the whiteboard a bit later perhaps.
asciilifeform: upstack, array slices ( which commonlisp also has ) are important to being rid of having to use c-style pointers
asciilifeform: in much the same way as 'in' parameters (in ada procedures)
mircea_popescu: i am sitting here wondering if this is "getting rid" as in, rid or rid as in, hid.
asciilifeform: rid.
asciilifeform: in that they are replaced with a far more constrained item
asciilifeform: about which you can prove particulars.
mircea_popescu: what particular can i prove re the relation between an array slice and the index fixer variable ?
mircea_popescu: ~same as the relation between pointer and its content, "better hope programmer didn't fuck up ; and also it usually blows up if he did so there's that"
asciilifeform: wrong
asciilifeform: they get checked against the bounds
asciilifeform: every. time.
mircea_popescu: ah so no overflow
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: but can i overflow THE SLICE ?
asciilifeform: nope.
mircea_popescu: wedll that's something.
asciilifeform: slice has own bounds, the correct ones.
mircea_popescu: i see.
asciilifeform: ada is a thing for a reason, i found. hence this entire thread.
mod6: so recently, i've done some multi-d array programming in ada..
asciilifeform: every time, to date, when i bashed head against wall and went 'WAI DOES IT DOOO THAT!1!!1' i ended up repenting
asciilifeform: 'oooh hey turns out, Right Thing'
mircea_popescu: that's encouraging...
asciilifeform: quite possibly i'dve given up long ago if not for this repeated experience
mod6: all i can say thus far is; stuff seems to be strict. my code may compile, but indeed blows up at runtime.
asciilifeform: every single time it was 'guess wat, this is How It Works in the adult hut. for reasons that Make Sense'...
asciilifeform: mod6: note that 'blow up' still dun mean 'segfault'
mod6: index out of bounds.
mircea_popescu: he means it catches it itself
mod6: or whatever it was. no did not seem to be a segfault.
mod6: im just dumb. it seemed to be smarter than i am.
mod6: at least, for nw.
asciilifeform: mod6: you won't physically ever see a segfault in ada proggy built with default 'fascism' level
asciilifeform: most you'll get is a stop.
mod6: that's what would be ideal
mod6: :]
asciilifeform: in some critical applications (airplane, rsatron) this is still unacceptable and hence spark
mod6: now if i could just my head out of my ass....
asciilifeform: ( and -- fits-in-head !! )
mod6: head-fits-in-ass
asciilifeform: lol
trinque: !~bash 5 ✂︎
jhvh1: Last 5 lines bashed and pending publication
mod6: heheh, ok. will dig into ur function a bit more here in a little bit.
asciilifeform: i've been reading, btw, the output
asciilifeform: of gnat, i mean
asciilifeform: the asm
mod6: is it doing ~what is expected?
asciilifeform: on -O2 it's surprisingly notbad
asciilifeform: mod6: aha. i wanted to see how the bounds checks are done, and whether gcc4.9 takes any liberties with'em
mod6: good work.
asciilifeform: seems like it works - almost astonishingly - as printed on the box...
asciilifeform: ftr asciilifeform doing this chore does not excuse other folx from same
asciilifeform: my gnat is mine, but what's in yours - only beelzebub knows
asciilifeform: relatedly, after adatronic 'p' is fully nailed down and flying, i'ma bake one in x64 asm.
asciilifeform: in the interest of bootstrapology.
mircea_popescu: not even a bad idea
asciilifeform: ( ffa in asm is - somewhat surprisingly - easier than ada or even c )
asciilifeform: phunphakt -- if you nail down, to a fixed bitness, the N-arity of the arithmetic, you can unroll all of the loops.
asciilifeform: e.g. mircea_popescu's 4096
asciilifeform: pretty lulzy, jmpless rsatron then
asciilifeform: but iirc this came up in old thread.
mircea_popescu: did
mircea_popescu: part of the point
asciilifeform: ( i dun know of any compelling practical reason to do this, outside of something like a hand-sewn gossipd packet filter in asm on bare iron, for max horsepower )
mircea_popescu: unrolled loops means fixed time eh.
asciilifeform: constant-arity loops - equally fixed
asciilifeform: but unrolled is moar cacheable.
mircea_popescu: but unrolled loops you can bake in your alfmachine we were discussing last week
asciilifeform: tru!
mircea_popescu: moreover, if you do fixed as described, you CAN so unroll, if you do or if you don't.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, you CAN NOT.
asciilifeform: in my mind's eye thing would be a 32kBit-arity alu...lol
mircea_popescu: 4kbit first
asciilifeform: same principle
mircea_popescu: yes, but cheaper by a factor
asciilifeform: and if made correctly they oughta plug in for longer arity.
asciilifeform: the way folx used to stitch shifters together.
mircea_popescu: well yes, i imagined the 4kb one also composite.
asciilifeform: upstack, ffa wants to double as a 'how to rsa' 'b00k' , i.e. at every point tradeoff was made for clarity rather than speed.
asciilifeform: we can always get the speed BACK later
asciilifeform: but try and get back lost clarity!!
mircea_popescu: just as should be. first spec code then optimized code
asciilifeform: p ain't a 'code is the spec' crock-o-shit tho. up asciilifeform's sleeve, is an actual spec
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-04#1679099 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-04 15:06 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-04#1679054 << this is a fine approach. "here's the per spec impl, here's the optimized impl. you can verify they agree wrt results ; and you can trivially verify the former is spec-accurate."
asciilifeform: i don't expect to see many reimplementations, sadly, however, because one of the items of said spec is 'the following ops are in constant spacetime...'
mircea_popescu: which suggests the very important point : bitewise equality over the result space is not sufficient proof of program equivalence.
asciilifeform: probably an ada build and a handrolled asm, per cpu make, is best that can be had.
mircea_popescu: aka "you can not fix a computer by simply rebooting it without any idea what's going on" moonism
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aka 'path dependent'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, unrelatedly and idly : an optorsatron might also be built if unrolled.
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: or even... mechanical
mircea_popescu: the two aren't that distinct in this application
asciilifeform: ( esp. if you use muller's delay-insensitive logic )
mircea_popescu: but it'd make fine ART, to go back to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-07#1680182 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-07 18:01 mircea_popescu: if they did that sort of shit, i could almost respect artists.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha
mircea_popescu: it should not take the average artist a year of labour to produce the optorsatron out of cheap lasers and stuff ~free in any collegiate lab, once he's stolen the unrolling and idea from log.
asciilifeform: part of what asciilifeform was even doing re 'p' is answering the q of 'what is the minimal practical rsatron'
asciilifeform: ( lessay you had to put one in a very... tight space. e.g. 'uci' payload... )
asciilifeform: the tightest, in practice, space of all, however, is.. the head
asciilifeform: if you want ( and we do ) an ABSOLUTE, iron grasp.
asciilifeform bbl, meat
jurov: re: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-09#1681019 i tried and liked https://github.com/conspack/cl-conspack ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-09 16:29 phf: note that common lisp's sexps are not an ideal data exchange format
mircea_popescu: !!up EIC
deedbot: EIC voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: EIC did you figure out how to reg a key ?