tmsr - Log 2018-10-01

mod6: It seems like the BTC-Dev mailing list is still not working properly. I have posted the September State of Bitcoin Address to my own site in the mean time: http://www.mod6.net/2018/October/1/btcf_address_201809.txt

mod6: I'll be working on the Pizarro report over the next few days. After which time, I'll start looking into creating a keccak version of the TRB tree.

mod6: After a lot of consideration this weekend, I'm still interested in stepping down as Foundation Co-Chair.

mod6: I will do so formally after the Pizarro report is complete. We will be needing to find a replacement for myself as Co-Chair.

asciilifeform: mod6: i for one will be sad to see end of your tenure as tbf chair -- imho it was as productive as could ever be wished

asciilifeform: meanwhile in asciilifeform's trb observatory : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SEy0g/?raw=true << 'bastards' emitted by ( among others ) friendlies. really is imho bug, trb ought not to send bastards to trb. ☟︎

asciilifeform: ( i expect the cure will be a 1liner, once i think of where exactly )

asciilifeform: i wonder whether hanbot is interested in taking up tbf chair .

hanbot: asciilifeform actually in principle i very much am interested. i'm not sure i fully grasp what it's supposed to do beyond making trb available tho'...if "fruit"'s so far unsatisfactory, what's good fruit look like? ☟︎

mircea_popescu: stanford university exists because a rich dood took some money out of his pocket, stuffed it in a bag and wrote "Stanford university" on it.

mircea_popescu: however, it ~actually exists~, today. plenty of people interact with it that might not even have heard of the douche in question or his insufferable drowned son

mircea_popescu: this means, to live. if stanford university today were nothing more than an entry in the rich guy's lawyer's workledger, it'd not live. as it is, it lives.

mircea_popescu: (and, amusingly enough, the founding donation was a whole of a lot less than 10 bitcoin, also.) ☟︎

hanbot: how much does the "person-ness" of those "people interact(ing) with it" matter, if at all?

hanbot: i mean, is it meant to be a chute-to-l1 or simply doesn't get enough lifeform contact?

mircea_popescu: the stanford douche and his entire fambly, and his entire "business interest" ie life's work long withered away. stanford university still stands.

mircea_popescu: it still "exert an influence on behalf of humanity and welfare" bullshit pantsuit values as we speak.

hanbot: oh i know how to undo stanford university, ya just walk around campus in a Cal sweatshirt.

mircea_popescu: i don't give a shit how. sponsor a sports team, for all i care. god knows the charter's written openly enough to not get in anyone's way who wants to do things.

mircea_popescu: organize a baby duck marathon competition and server the winner for a gala dinner. whatever it is, just make it stick.

hanbot: fwiw i don't doubt tbf as-is lacks legendary promise. i can also see argument for pushing as hard as its resources allow. i wonder: does the republic actually give two shits about e.g. sports teams? how much of this "means to an end" sorta thing is acceptable? or is it outright looked for?

mircea_popescu: do pantsuit actually give two shits about education establishments ? eminently not, they're the leading obscurantists of all time.

mircea_popescu: the difference between gimmicks is that some work and some don't ; nobody calls the stanford gimmick by its name for the exact same reason "treason never prospers". but the whole "enlightenment" pantsuit gambit, from the original d'alembert to the present day, was nothing but a gimmick.

hanbot: inasmuch as tbf clearly has a soul i'd think being true to that trumps the potential growth offered by a given gimmick. otherwise why isn't it for instance spreading virii?

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856273 << i dunno who's unsatisfied, but it aint me, i'd call another 4y exactly like prev 4y, a win ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 03:24 hanbot: asciilifeform actually in principle i very much am interested. i'm not sure i fully grasp what it's supposed to do beyond making trb available tho'...if "fruit"'s so far unsatisfactory, what's good fruit look like?

hanbot: asciilifeform i'm not unsatisfied either. speaking merely to the recent questioning of tbf's purpose/existence/etc in logs.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what'd that do, exactly ? give moar derps behind nat with ~useless noad?

mircea_popescu: doing things (as opposed to not doing things) permits one to compare results (as opposed to imagine comparisons of imagined results).

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: could've sworn we had the 'infect with trb' thread ..

asciilifeform: then i have nfi what specifically is meant re virii

mircea_popescu: what i said in response uses the black box as she might define it, irrespective.

asciilifeform: aa, a this

asciilifeform: aite..

hanbot: mircea_popescu i grasp principle of something > nothing, but i'd hate to lose sight of the spirit in which tbf was founded for the sake of notoriety/sticking power alone. i'd think this is obvious and i'm by now belaboring the point...

mircea_popescu: the man dwelling in an empty house saying "hey, at least my furniture's flawless" is no-one's hero.

hanbot: sure. well, i'd want a day or two to sit with the charter & selected logs before committing, if the involved parties'll have me.

mircea_popescu: and even if they won't, what harm can come of sitting with charter an' logs.

asciilifeform: it's a q for the current board. i suggested to ask hanbot because hanbot is known as a very skilled organizational hand, and not currently running anyffing ( aside from, possibly, mircea_popescu's janissary corps ) ☟︎

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856280 << to put specifics to this, the original endowment was set at $5mn during meeting with harvard president (who came up with the speciffic gimmick too, stanfords were thinking of "A combined museum-lecture hall" and such nonsense). 1885 us gdp was something like 60bn, and the us was barely 1% of the world at the time. meanwhile 10 btc is 1/1.6mn of monetary mass or somesuch. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 03:31 mircea_popescu: (and, amusingly enough, the founding donation was a whole of a lot less than 10 bitcoin, also.)

esthlos: trinque: wrt the keccak vtron, see http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/YWfb5/?raw=true . I haven't managed to get asdf working with ccl, though the sbcl version builds and appears to work. Note that the thing will barf on non-keccak vpatches. Write-up will come in the next few days. I also have some log catch-up to do: will read the context and repond to your other question soon.

mircea_popescu: in other random lulz : the panic of 1857 was at least in part generated by a ship carrying 14 tons of gold towards new york sinking in a hurricane (took a whole day to sink, boiler slowly died leaving them without power, quite the adventure, 500 people died, the captain was kinda cool etc). some people from ohio found it ("bayesian search!!!") in the 80s.

mircea_popescu: every single insurance company in the world found itself genealogically related to insurers who made payments in the 1800s, resulting in a legal battle settled sometime in the 90s, ~90% award to the finding crew. the leader of which went into hiding soon thereafter, in the middle of various legal wranglings with his backers and crew. ☟︎

mircea_popescu: was found (along with "assistant" allison) and "extradited" to ohio to provide explanations in 2015. afaik no explanations yet -- but it turns out bayesian-things great way to bankruptcy.

mircea_popescu: (nfi why they don't credit laplace -- other than protestant-ish ineptitude. presbyterians code!!!).

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 03:22 mircea_popescu: diana_coman is that getting a patch or what ?

diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-30#1856174 -> I suppose new world hostels might be better than old world ones, esp italian ones (though I'll grant that they were best for meeting people, yes) ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-09-30 20:54 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-30#1856041 << me (&chet) stopped overnight into one such item, on the mexico-guatemala border. endless halls of clean but modest beds, dozen or so to the room. place could've prolly quartered a whole regiment, but not the right agricultural moment so we were alone in the whole thing. it was pretty eerie anyways.

diana_coman: ave1, you forgot to change manifest file for your zfp_4_assert.vpatch? (i.e. it's missing from the list in manifest)

esthlos: trinque: asdf is used to join the pieces together (keccak, gpg, etc.) for use by the vtron proper. I tried to build the vtron modularly, and my understanding is that asdf is the standard for handling modules in common lisp. is there a better way to do package management in cl? ☟︎

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856328 << phf, this is neato ! i'ma try it today. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 04:29 deedbot: http://barksinthewind.com/2018/vpy-updated-for-vtools/ << BARKS IN THE WIND - v.py updated for vtools

asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf http://btcbase.org/patches/v99#L36 is not 'bug' in the usual sense of the word, but imho oughta be fixed in next rev

asciilifeform: hrm, bot dead..?

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: dhl sent me a 'crate delivery today, plz be there to sign' in re your thing

asciilifeform: meanwhile, in trb observatory : http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/trb/10_1_ProcessBlock.txt << anatomy of a 'noad behind'. whole night zoolag fed nuffin but 'bastards', and incl. by friendlies, in continuation of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856264 ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 00:59 asciilifeform: meanwhile in asciilifeform's trb observatory : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SEy0g/?raw=true << 'bastards' emitted by ( among others ) friendlies. really is imho bug, trb ought not to send bastards to trb.

asciilifeform: currently ~100blox behind highest known height.

asciilifeform: ( after 'aggression' i find that this condition lasts a day or 2, max, but was quite curious re how it is able to come about to begin with. )

asciilifeform: i'm pretty curious why a trb node is able to answer pfrom->PushGetBlocks(pindexBest, uint256(0)); with ANYTHING other than the immediately-missing next block, when it is known to have it.

asciilifeform: then again there is the simpler explanation : that it only gets asked on connect, and our connectivity is good enuff that this happens rarely.

asciilifeform: at some point i'ma try ben_vulpes's 'moar aggress' variant, which cures this.

asciilifeform: and yea it's http://btcbase.org/patches/asciilifeform_aggressive_pushgetblocks/tree/bitcoin/src/main.cpp#L1362 that trb (and for that matter heathens, but fuck'em) doesn't respond to sanely.

asciilifeform: incidentally, does anyone remember wtf happened to the 'log timestamps' patch for trb ? who wrote it, and how come it never made it into the flagship tree ? ☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: dug through log, but not found answ yet

asciilifeform: imho oughta exist at the very least as optional jumper.

asciilifeform doesn't use any fancy redirection-to-sys-logger for trb log, and doesn't intend to ☟︎

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856349 << right nao it's asdf, yes. but hopefully soon asdf can be replaced by your vtron-in-cl ! ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 11:51 esthlos: trinque: asdf is used to join the pieces together (keccak, gpg, etc.) for use by the vtron proper. I tried to build the vtron modularly, and my understanding is that asdf is the standard for handling modules in common lisp. is there a better way to do package management in cl?

asciilifeform: ~that~ is the Right Thing for cl packagetronics.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856334 << ianal, but aint that the ~whole point of 'international maritime law' ? where iirc once insurance pays, the sunken cargo turns into 'buried treasure' and belongs to whoever lifts it, no questions asked ? ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 04:35 mircea_popescu: every single insurance company in the world found itself genealogically related to insurers who made payments in the 1800s, resulting in a legal battle settled sometime in the 90s, ~90% award to the finding crew. the leader of which went into hiding soon thereafter, in the middle of various legal wranglings with his backers and crew.

asciilifeform: ( i.e. i dun recall spain defending any claims to the contents of sunken 17th c. galleons that usa regularly picked up in '70s-'80s )

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856296 << i gotta admit that i dun see point in 'growth for growth's sake'. there was already prb 'foundation' for ~that~. tbf is for maintaining & improving (constructively! there's plenty of actual ills to cure, that dun reduce to 'not enuff heathen notoriety' ) trb. ☝︎

asciilifeform: i could even see an argument that the charter could permit 'trb-i' work under the flag of tbf. but that's as far as it goes, per my reading ☟︎

asciilifeform: ( and imho all of the people qualified to work on trbi, are already here, they dun need to see duck races to be persuaded to come... ) ☟︎

diana_coman: asciilifeform, my understanding is that tbf's scope is not limited to trb, nor focused specifically mainly on trb ☟︎

asciilifeform: diana_coman: right, pretty much all of the early vtronics work happened on tbf ml

asciilifeform: and the orig 'rotor', i baked for tbf, and from it we have the musl thing, etc

asciilifeform: diana_coman: that's uncharted territory.. ☟︎

asciilifeform: i suppose. simply can't picture yet , what might fit under this .

asciilifeform: errything done to date, related to trb at least tangentially.

asciilifeform: which imho was proper.

diana_coman: I think that's precisely what the chairs need to figure out: "what might fit under this " and be useful, ofc ☟︎

asciilifeform: way i see it, there's plenty of sharp edges left on good old trb, and any new work ought not to subtract from the very real remaining work of smoothing'em out.

asciilifeform: it is very much a question for the board, tho.

diana_coman: i.e. what does one have to do with the other? what, hanbot should now start working on trb if she becomes chair?

asciilifeform: way i see it, if hanbot takes over mod6's duties, then oughta at least carry on what he was doing ( i.e. maintenance of the flagship tree, testing of candidate patches ) ☟︎

asciilifeform: and anyffing on top of that, is bonus

diana_coman: I agree that there is plenty of work to be done on trb, sure; but I don't see the subtraction thing

asciilifeform: it's a risk, not a 'certain doom'

asciilifeform: my contention was simply that oddball extensions of the mission ought not to subtract from the traditional mission, is all.

asciilifeform: fwiw i see my own work on trb, to date, as a ~defensive~ affair, i.e. to make whatever fixes req'd to keep the thing working precisely as it worked in 2009, in the face of the very real and continuing network rot / 9000 forms of active attack from heathendom to date

asciilifeform: as i observed just today and on 9000 occasions, even the simple thing of 'why can a trb node be 100 blox behind a fellow trb peer' is not yet licked

diana_coman: I don't see that related to one specific chair, I guess; i.e. I don't even see a problem if mod6 wants to continue testing the patches and maintaining the tree even if he is not trb chair (not that he has to continue, but neither does he have to pass the job on if he is not chair anymore)

asciilifeform: diana_coman: i dun particularly care who in l1 does it, for so long as it keeps being done.

asciilifeform: i suppose the fundamental headache is that the charter never explicitly specified that the chair is who does.

asciilifeform: at the risk of 'bureaucratism', i'd suggest to mod6 & ben_vulpes to amend charter to explicitly make clear the duties of the chair, prior to swapping chairs. but would be curious to see what mircea_popescu thinks. ☟︎

asciilifeform: ty BingoBoingo

asciilifeform: strictly from asciilifeform's pov, tbf is a (to date, imho very successful) ~conservative~ institution, rather like (pre-20th c) vatican.

asciilifeform: it ~preserves~ a valuable and continuously-attacked item.

asciilifeform: doesn't excuse anybody from trying and dying on the embrasures imho.

asciilifeform: 'what mod6 has been doing'

mircea_popescu: i mean, it's ok to ask things of people. even difficult things. but can you ask the impossible ?

asciilifeform: i'm sympathetic to the scandinavian view -- yes, world will perish in fire and ice, nothing is 4evah, etc. but doesn't excuse surrender.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall the thread with the physicists.

mircea_popescu: but how's he, or anyone, to say the words that translate "what the chair's job is".

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-31#1663960 << this one, i think ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-05-31 16:28 asciilifeform: and if someone wants to mention godel etc -- ethical engineer MAY NOT cite godel, EVER, just as a police detective MAY NOT cite the supernatural and admit a hypothesis of miraculous theft from a safe

asciilifeform: there's all kindsa people whose entirely legit duty is to attempt, continuously, the possibly-impossible.

mircea_popescu: is it your job to tell me "the chapter titles of the universal and permanent book on physics" ?

asciilifeform: physicist, who ~must~ look for a simpler equation that in fact may not exist; surgeon who must operate on the possibly-hopeless pre-corpse; detective, who must look for a robber who for all he knows maybe teleported; etc

asciilifeform: and we also know what failure looks like.

asciilifeform: recall the thread where mircea_popescu observed 'y'know those 'hard' murder cases, where detective sits an' thinks, well guess what , in new york they no longer do that, either obvious suspect or they shelve it nao' ☟︎

asciilifeform: physics, imho, has failed, i.e. accepted eternally snowballing complexity liquishit in place of unifications ( 9000 threads.. )

asciilifeform: so to return to orig q , imho 'job of physicist' is 1st, and above all, to work so that 'physics' ~fits in head~ and thereby remains a legitimate item.

asciilifeform: even if this turns out to be impossible.

mircea_popescu: it seems to me you're essentially saying "hey chairs, in recognition of how you've mostly failed to organize an experimental physics laboratory over half a decade, how about you produce a unified world theory on your way out".

mircea_popescu: it seems to me if the latter were even vaguely approachable, the former'd have been impressively developed already.

asciilifeform: i'ma agree that 'delineate it in contract' is not solution.

asciilifeform: was simply curious re whether the other participants (incl. new ones, potentially hanbot) see the thing through same lens as asciilifeform , or not.

mircea_popescu: it may shock "the community" of not-bdsm to find that i... DONT have "Slavery contracts" either.

asciilifeform: no i get this.

asciilifeform: words, obv., are not alive, cannot move people who do not want to be moved.

asciilifeform: ( iirc mircea_popescu had an article re 'only those are alive, whom words can move' )

asciilifeform brb,teatime

mircea_popescu: i think the problems people in general encounter in conceptualizing contracts come from a very misfortunate but clearly delineated source, so let me belabour the matter to understand each other for all time.

mircea_popescu: a) the anti-humanity party, however temporarily called, "protestant", "presbyterian", "unitarian", "democratic", "civilized", "ecologist", "animal rightist" what have you -- they're still these people who plainly and simply hate human life as a thing.

mircea_popescu: consider by way of ilustration that frank sinatra has this reputation, unexamined, apodictic, of some kind of smooth, very sexually powerful operator. this reputation was built on the basis of a bunch of idiotic films written and directed by gene kelly, the adam sandler of the 40s, in which frank sinatra is POINTEDLY SEXUALLY INEPT.

mircea_popescu: this is what the pantsuit do : call good bad and bad good. that's it. and if it doesn't stick, they don't care, they just repeat it. over a long enough interval, it'll end up sticking statistically, especially if left unopposed (and who has the resources to oppose sheer femidiocy ?).

mircea_popescu: now, these people wanted to replace the republican "several colonies" with the imperial "united states". (but they'd have stolen the name "several colonies", if that seemed more valuable in 1860.)

mircea_popescu: the process through which they succeeded this replacement was inventing a hallucinated "freedom" for slaves, a thing that can never be.

mircea_popescu: if i tell a girl "keep the palace floors clean", it's one thing. if i tell a girl "clean from here to here, this is your mop this is your detergent you're to be done by noon", it's another thing.

mircea_popescu: the difference between these two is that if the alien empire of bugs attacks planet earth, and they land on my palace floor and litter it, the former girl will organize intergalactic war with mops and buckets, AND DIE ON THAT FUCKING FLOOR. to be buried later, in a taj mahal built for the purpose.

mircea_popescu: whereas the 2nd girl runs over to find me, and cower behind me, and "massah, massah, job no longer doable".

mircea_popescu: an "employment contract", a writ which delineates what the ~~~SLAVE~~~ is to do is no kind of contract. its only use is for the slave to oppose to master, "but why should i be blamed for not doing x, it's not written in here".

mircea_popescu: the utility of such devices is very moderate indeed -- ALL it ever does is support the otherwise spurious pretense that slaves are not in fact slaves but somehow citizens. lincoln needed this to support his tenuous attempts on fucking over his country. i can't imagine what we'd need it for. ☟︎

mircea_popescu: this stance informs my http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-24#1837545 as well as my position here : there's very limited use for an enumeration of duties in a lordship forum. it's fine and dandy if any lord wishes to use it in training his own slaves, but this is pointedly not what i'm contemplating in these halls. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-07-24 15:59 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform consider eg that pizarro doesn't need to undertake the (significant, and unbounded) cost of writing "code of conduct" or "terms of service" or any of the other nonsense. things have changed. nude bitcoin is dangerous in the sense discussed in 2012, but bitcoin-as-currency-of-the-republic eminently usable today.

mircea_popescu: the essence, inalienable and substantial, of all freedom, is global responsibility. yes this means that you may end up blindsided by landing empires of bugs. it also, together and inseparably, means that you may be a person, and things such as "i'm not about to tell you what comp lang to use" etc. as counterdistinct from http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-06#1666454 ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-06-06 15:24 mircea_popescu: and if experience with the empire of "i just want to" lazy idiots is any guide, they're DEFINITELY not going to "get in trouble for buying microsoft". because "nobody could have predicted" and "they were just doing their job" which "hey man, it's just a gig, it's not my life!"

mircea_popescu: aaand there goes my trilema article for the day. i wonder why i never get to publish anything anymore...

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 13:57 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in trb observatory : http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/trb/10_1_ProcessBlock.txt << anatomy of a 'noad behind'. whole night zoolag fed nuffin but 'bastards', and incl. by friendlies, in continuation of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856264

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 14:08 asciilifeform: incidentally, does anyone remember wtf happened to the 'log timestamps' patch for trb ? who wrote it, and how come it never made it into the flagship tree ?

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Number appeared on the graphic layover BEFORE coming out of the shuffling ball hopper

mircea_popescu: well, a) shuffler is never live (mostly, because the legal trappings around it require the shuffling be redone in some circumstances -- such as malfunction.) with b) orcs can't sync a gfx.

mircea_popescu: it'd be typically orcish to mistake b for some sort of REAL WORLD IMPORTANCE, too. but ... it isn't.

BingoBoingo: Well, still apparently has quite a few of the orcs lit up. Still, something to go amongst the people and talk about.

mircea_popescu: and the "authority", or w/e judge, stuck with dealing with the "reddit revolution" will, if sane, say exact same thing. which the morons will interpret as "o noes elites have abandoned us, must make own justice"

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856454 << did we ever do the turks ? ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 15:07 mircea_popescu: the utility of such devices is very moderate indeed -- ALL it ever does is support the otherwise spurious pretense that slaves are not in fact slaves but somehow citizens. lincoln needed this to support his tenuous attempts on fucking over his country. i can't imagine what we'd need it for.

asciilifeform: how they were seen by euros as 'backward' for having 'errybody, from vizier down, is personal slave of sultan' instead of 'contract'

asciilifeform: was thinking of janissary corps , i.e. 'ss'/leibstandarte, rather than empire as whole

asciilifeform: y'know, their l1

asciilifeform: vizier was iirc counted as in same chart, and was defo l1.

asciilifeform: but perhaps moar complicated, asciilifeform is not expert turkist.

mircea_popescu: but yes, personal slaves of sultan. and i can see why, and i thought thence all the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856322 style comments. what i can't see is why they'd make them boys. orphans or not, there's still http://trilema.com/2018/traditional-family-vs-the-harem-a-comparative-study/ that controls. ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 04:01 asciilifeform: it's a q for the current board. i suggested to ask hanbot because hanbot is known as a very skilled organizational hand, and not currently running anyffing ( aside from, possibly, mircea_popescu's janissary corps )

asciilifeform: but upstack, pretty sure i grasp the point re contracts, they are not substitute for actual cohesion , and anyone who tries to substitute , ends up with obummer's empire, yes

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856463 << nope, but i ended up finding : it was polarbeard, and item was never absorbed into flagship ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 15:28 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856363 << iirc you wrote it.

BingoBoingo: ^ asciilifeform Does the photographed intersection look familiar (actual event reportedly a block or so north)

mircea_popescu: all the foregoing aside, i very much hope mod6 dun take any of it as some kind of personal rebuff. i agree with all the others who like him very much, because i also.

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: link to photo ? i'm not seeing a photo

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Try this one, photo shrank during archiving https://archive.is/ebJPr

mod6: I think, and I guess I could be wrong here, that it could be a good time to bring in some new leadership to the foundation.

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: does look familiar

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It's on Avenida General Riviera, along the walk from datacenter city to "center" city

mod6: Right now, I've got two major struggles. The Foundation, which I feel like I've been at least successful at the trb curation end of (and am certainly much more well suited for), and Pizarro.

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 09:04 diana_coman: phf, please add the fix patch to eucrypt http://ossasepia.com/reference-code-shelf/#selection-391.0-399.38

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856495 << at some point gotta explain why the sultans with boys built empire, and the fella with roxy, pushed it off cliff ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 15:35 mircea_popescu: but yes, personal slaves of sultan. and i can see why, and i thought thence all the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856322 style comments. what i can't see is why they'd make them boys. orphans or not, there's still http://trilema.com/2018/traditional-family-vs-the-harem-a-comparative-study/ that controls.

asciilifeform: all 'pushings' have this inflexion point, sorta how it worx. consider how stalin both 'built' and 'pushed'.

mircea_popescu: well, let us look into this. so at the time caesar was "pushing republic off cliff", the republic had a serious problem, which caesar hadn't created (the marii had created, and the bleg senate had created).

mircea_popescu: there were a number of leadership lines trying to deal with it. there was the cicero- "be manlier" writer line. there was the caesar "divine right of great people" line. there was the pre-nero/napoleon fuck it all and let's party line (recall the schmuck that adopted himself by a peon to qualify for plebeian dignities ?)

mircea_popescu: any of these had prevailed, the republic'd have died. so why caesar's fault ? cuz he won ?

diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856404 -> ugh; to my mind a chair position is precisely not a "here's detailed list of tasks" position, it can't be ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 14:35 asciilifeform: at the risk of 'bureaucratism', i'd suggest to mod6 & ben_vulpes to amend charter to explicitly make clear the duties of the chair, prior to swapping chairs. but would be curious to see what mircea_popescu thinks.

asciilifeform: goes with winning. folx blame e.g. lenin for 9000 things he similarly 'hadn't created'.

asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'm sold.

mircea_popescu: fine. then that's my explanation : suleyman the magnificent, in spite of being the ~best leader sublime porte ever had, nevertheless "fucked it" because he happened to walk into the room as corpse croaked.

mod6: I love trb, and doing the foundation. I take a very measured, meticulous, methodical, and detail oriented approach to the work to provide a very sound patch set -- as best as I can.

mircea_popescu: (the schmuck in question, whiom i wil lstubbornly not name, was so adept at rabble rousing, pompey had trouble leaving his fucking house. notwithstanding pompey stood with caesar approx in the position the duke of exter stood with the leading perfume seller on the strand.)

mod6: I feel like I can be pretty successful in doing that, it's the other things that I feel like I'm lacking -- a senseable direction to a 'Standford'. ☟︎

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856366 << imo syslogger should be abolished altogether. before systemd it wasn't obvious to me what it is -- but now, plenty obvious. "unified logging" terrible idea. ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 14:09 asciilifeform doesn't use any fancy redirection-to-sys-logger for trb log, and doesn't intend to

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 14:15 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856334 << ianal, but aint that the ~whole point of 'international maritime law' ? where iirc once insurance pays, the sunken cargo turns into 'buried treasure' and belongs to whoever lifts it, no questions asked ?

diana_coman: I certainly think mod6 is and has been doing a great job in maintaining the v-tree for trb - and as I said before, I don't think it's something linked to tbf chair position

mod6: One other thing that I should note here, perhaps, is that I feel like I really get into the work deep into thought; when doing the trb related work. ☟︎

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856375 << let's give it a public reading, then. it says : "1. Bitcoin is a far reaching innovation with effects unknown and unknowable. 2. It is altogether probable that its effects will conflict with all currently established human conventions. 3. Maintaining the core values as established by the original author in the form of a reference implementation that is lightweight, coherent and cru ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 14:22 asciilifeform: i could even see an argument that the charter could permit 'trb-i' work under the flag of tbf. but that's as far as it goes, per my reading

mircea_popescu: ft-free in face of this conflict requires deliberate effort involving multiple people, which in turn require management and guidance. 4. ``THE BITCOIN FOUNDATION'' will endeavour to provide these, while fostering community growth and development, under the general principle that if and when any other thing conflicts with Bitcoin, that other thing must either be discontinued or amended in such a way as to no longer conflict w

mod6: And before the republic, I was very much a one-thing-at-a-time type of engineer. Seems like over the last year or maybe 18 months, I feel like I'm context switching so much, that I find it hard to get deep into the thinking that I need to. For instance, it bothers me that I still haven't found time to work through FFA. ☟︎

mod6: Not only FFA, but other parts of TRB that I'd love to educate myself upon. I think you take my meaning.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856376 << yet new ones are born every day. thousands of girls underwent puberty as we sat and spoke today, are they also excluded, "all women that'll ever be are already here" ? ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 14:22 asciilifeform: ( and imho all of the people qualified to work on trbi, are already here, they dun need to see duck races to be persuaded to come... )

mircea_popescu: the girl i last fucked in the ass was... NINE years old last i visited the us. and at the time i last visited the us, "all the women that were with me -- were with me" also.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856377 << well, the way i read the 1-2-3-4 progression from above is that "it is focused but not limited to trb, supposed to outreach from it". ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 14:22 diana_coman: asciilifeform, my understanding is that tbf's scope is not limited to trb, nor focused specifically mainly on trb

mircea_popescu: the "focused" part is imo not in dispute. the "limited to" part, though, maybe ?

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856381 << kinda the idea though -- if uncharted territory stays uncharted... well ? what are we, the folk living across from zanzibar, waiting for indonesians to come over and discover it, because it's easier for them to cover 5k miles than for us 50 ? ☝︎

diana_coman: mod6, I know what you mean re too-many-things-at-once (from my pov also, ideally 1 at a time but that's a luxury that I rarely get to fully indulge in, what can I say)

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856536 << indeed !! somehow amnesiaed right out of asciilifeform's head. puzzler solved. ☝︎

asciilifeform: ty Mocky

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856534 << non-kernelistic but 'systemwide' logging is an unfortunate artifact of unixism, where there are processes that dun have write permissions anywhere but nevertheless must log ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 15:52 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856366 << imo syslogger should be abolished altogether. before systemd it wasn't obvious to me what it is -- but now, plenty obvious. "unified logging" terrible idea.

asciilifeform: i dun see why it would apply to trb tho, trb must have write or it cannot store blox.

asciilifeform: tmp is not reliably kept.

asciilifeform: so not fit for logging.

asciilifeform: 'oops the log is gone, randomly' is fucktarded.

mircea_popescu: and thjis is what i'm sayuing : this is misdesigned. i'm not about to fuck my system so some moron somewhere can miswrite his program.

asciilifeform: i want e.g. nginx to log, but to not have write permission anywhere else. unix offers no way to do this aside from the current horror.

asciilifeform: how ?

BingoBoingo: log in directory daemon already read/writes, simplifies future ports to BeOS, DOS, etc

asciilifeform: and how to give just 1 process ? a group per process ? ugly.

asciilifeform: the whole unix permissions thing is a massive crock of shit

asciilifeform: and will have to be bulldozed at some point..

mircea_popescu: but i very much disagree "systemwide" "log mechanism" is either acceptable or necessary. leaving "a good idea" way far behind and to the left.

asciilifeform: it's braindamaged. but i gotta point out why i haven't said how to demolish it -- cuz haven't yet conceived of how to do so w/out losing what imho is essential function

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856387 << and if not figure out, at least work towards figuring out. there's a difference between "i found no rock but here's 500 clumps of earth i tried" and "i don't understand whart a rock would be" ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 14:25 diana_coman: I think that's precisely what the chairs need to figure out: "what might fit under this " and be useful, ofc

asciilifeform: centralized logging actually has at least 1 known win -- i can dump all logs, or subset of'em, to tape printer

asciilifeform: without individually fucking with each proggy that shits'em

asciilifeform: who said 'don't know about'

asciilifeform: simply to not open 9000 hoods, when can open 1.

asciilifeform: sorta how yer house has a mains breaker that toggles whole panel, and not simply 50 individual breakers.

mircea_popescu: but you can't open one. the question is how you rig the opening of the 9000 hoods.

mircea_popescu: now, intuitively, and from an actual electrical engineering standpoint, it seems intuitively right -- "rather than have wires through house connecting 9000 breakers, just have a mains breaker".

asciilifeform: imho it's an open problem.

asciilifeform: ( observe that civilized house has both main breaker ~and~ subs )

mircea_popescu: HOWEVER, computing-electrical engineering befuddles this intuition. for computers -- much betterf to have the wires than to fuck the upstream design

mircea_popescu: because UNLIKE electrics, where the flow is pantsuiot, and any portion of wire == any other, computers are hierarchied. the early portions of wire priviledged over the later.

asciilifeform: tape printer is a constrained device, if you let >1 proggy operate it at same time, it will output garbage ( lines inside other lines etc )

mircea_popescu: so the cost of having the computer equivalent of "mains breaker" is so disproportionately immense, the 9000 wires gain exponentially.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform have a script that collates the logs you want and produce a flow.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aint that whole idea of 'system log' to begin with ?

asciilifeform: i.e. item that collates desired flows.

mircea_popescu: (which is -- a bug ridden, half assed, "universal" ie dysfunctional, implementation of THE SAME SCRIPT)

asciilifeform: and yes the existing item is bug-ridden.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in the sense "the whole idea of the fuck channel is to do your fucking for you". you gonna watch fuck channel ?

asciilifeform: but i read orig mircea_popescu observation as opposing very notion of collated log.

mircea_popescu: "no -- they're doing it the wrong way with the wrong women, it does nothing for me"

asciilifeform: then i cannot disagree

asciilifeform: would like to expel mc-anyffing from the system, yes.

mircea_popescu: "some people who don't give a shit made this slop out of something or the other" mcdrepperism.

asciilifeform: sane collated logging is imho major wish list item for fyootoor cuntoo.

asciilifeform: i dun see why kernel gotta be involved.

asciilifeform: the dreppers can, demonstrably, fuck up anyffing, if you let'em build a chair, it'll have a spiked cock protruding. and maybe six.

asciilifeform: it doesn't have much bearing on the problems faced by actual people, aside from drepper-extermination.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856392 << i thought the idea was to add a third. what take over ? ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 14:28 asciilifeform: way i see it, if hanbot takes over mod6's duties, then oughta at least carry on what he was doing ( i.e. maintenance of the flagship tree, testing of candidate patches )

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: unless i misread, mod6 asked to be relieved of the duty.

mircea_popescu: well... ok, but that is a latter development that'd be a separate issue. you'd want a third AND a mod6 replacement then.

asciilifeform: right !

asciilifeform: was asciilifeform's whole point, earlier

asciilifeform: 'yes explore antarctica, sure, but also crops gotta still be harvested back home'

a111: Logged on 2018-09-30 00:07 mircea_popescu: mod6 do you want to name someone to join into the chairdom ?

mircea_popescu: i have this vague notion that the idea always was that you two will at some point summon a third.

mircea_popescu: ~then~, after that gets established, one can step down, add another, and so on. like a steps process, with continuity and everything. ☟︎

mircea_popescu: i don't recall now if this was specifically said re foundation or only re qntra, but the two are ~same period, in any case,

asciilifeform: it's the historic norm in sane undertakings, yes

asciilifeform: Mocky et al: i'ma restart with timestamps, and from here on.

mod6: mircea_popescu: ah, ok, which is basically how the charter reads in that section 0x2 para 3.

mircea_popescu: in any case, the " mod6 left by himself in empty hall of foundation" not so sane situation for a mod6 to find himself into.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856553 << lol, seems to me that we regularly argue opposite sides of this puzzler. but yes, i'd luvv for there to be somewhere a hidden reserve of sane folx who will join republic and do quality work. but somehow they aint here yet, and i'm inclined to agree with mircea_popescu's much earlier hypothesis, where they either dun exist or are buried beneath such thick pantsuit iceberg that no drill pres ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 16:03 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856376 << yet new ones are born every day. thousands of girls underwent puberty as we sat and spoke today, are they also excluded, "all women that'll ever be are already here" ?

asciilifeform: ently built , can reach'em

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Still somehow this year Mocky fished himself up and defected to the Republic

mircea_popescu: the previous time, it was about "names -- only names in their own heads", djb, rms, whatever.

asciilifeform: makes sense

asciilifeform: meanwhile in the trb observatory, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/cMfST/?raw=true << restarted zoolag, and confirms my earlier hypothesis -- 'bastards' from friendlies are simply when they throw their latest block blindly at each peer, without concern for who actually can eat it, and who cannot. shitoshi's shit protocol.

asciilifeform: the 'push' model of block propagation, is simply wrong.

asciilifeform: ( or rather, is incompatible with 'no se fia' )

asciilifeform: mod6: nope. only my orig one

asciilifeform: mod6: ben_vulpes's patch is on my conveyor tho.

asciilifeform: and i'm beginning to suspect that it, or some variant thereof, is The Right Thing

asciilifeform: with my orig, a node can happily sit for potentially years without getting new blox.

asciilifeform: i abolished shitoshi's 'speshulness' of ~boot time~, but to make ~peer connection time~ similarly speshul, is also mistake.

asciilifeform: noads oughta regularly demand next valid block from peers.

asciilifeform: cuz otherwise they'll only be sent whatever's getting pushed, and it'll almost always be 'bastard' from their pov.

mod6: he must have operated under the impression that guy reboots his windows machine every day or some wild idea.

asciilifeform: gotta be

mircea_popescu: bitcoin was originally designed to work in the manner kids run doom -- turn it on now and again

asciilifeform: it's jawdropping retardation, but entirely on par with shitoshi's style.

mircea_popescu: "law enforcement officials and bureaucrats are the only known demographic interested in consuming child porn." << word.

mod6: I am somewhat sad about the state of the bitcoin poc as created by satoshi, but I'm still very much glad we have it.

mod6: Good thing trb has burned off many warts. However, some warts are so deep, would kill the paitent.

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 15:43 mod6: Pizarro, on the other hand, I'm more of a fish out of water.

mod6: Well, I've never really run a business before -- and, I have pretty much zero sales/marketing exp.

mod6: Well, it's not that I don't want to, I'd like it if we could somehow get the train moving down the track. Just worried that I don't have the know-how for this.

mircea_popescu: alright, so make a list of the few, walk up to them and explain what problem you're encountering, and ask whether they'd be willing to either mentor or participate.

mircea_popescu: worst case, you're out whatever drinks among old acquaintances cost you. there's worse fates.

mod6: This is worthwhile. I've got a vector that I'd like to start into with sales -- as far as a market. Maybe one of these guys could help me get going.

mircea_popescu: i dunno if anyone burns in hell for fucking girls too young, or too roughly, or drinking too much or burping in church. but i see it altogether possible that you show up before st peter and he's like "shit shane, you STILL suck at sales ?! off to the ovens with you, for shame!"

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: maybe dhl ?

asciilifeform: then 'prince with millions', who else..

asciilifeform: harar

BingoBoingo: I'm leaning towards suspecting the robocall scammers hacked a Uruguayo office and under the impression Uruguay is a "rich" company have decided to pilfer

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i get china regularly. but they go via pwned usa boxen.

asciilifeform: ( lotsa folx in usa, esp. on the sadder telcos, have foreign call switched off entirely )

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 15:58 mod6: One other thing that I should note here, perhaps, is that I feel like I really get into the work deep into thought; when doing the trb related work.

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 15:59 mod6: And before the republic, I was very much a one-thing-at-a-time type of engineer. Seems like over the last year or maybe 18 months, I feel like I'm context switching so much, that I find it hard to get deep into the thinking that I need to. For instance, it bothers me that I still haven't found time to work through FFA.

a111: Logged on 2018-09-30 00:05 mircea_popescu: i kinda have in the back of my mind this impression that poor shane's ended up stuck with a large number of loose ends to juggle.

asciilifeform: i have exactly same problem ( '10 pounds of shit in a 1 pound bag' ) , sorta assumed mod6 et al suffer similar.

mod6: I actually assume it's worse for alf. I have no idea how alf can keep up in irc, and all the other things. Guy has 20,000 hands.

mod6: mircea_popescu: I actually do read the logs, but -- again, I wish I had more time to really grok the logs. Instead of just snarf them and move on to the next thing.

asciilifeform: pretty often when going to sleep i read coupla wks of log, again & again...

asciilifeform: sometimes will actually find missed / improperly-digested nugget.

mod6: I feel like, this will improve for me -- all of it. As someday I'll break out of these mines.

asciilifeform: it is imperfect approach, and unpleasantly reminiscent of how leporidae eat their grass. but i havent found substantially better algo.

mircea_popescu: i re-read logs also. i dun see the problem, what, log should be toilet paper, use once ?

asciilifeform: but ideally oughta go 'in' on 1st pass imho

mod6: Yeah, I try to re-read stuff too -- actually links within logs actually help to force ya to do it.

asciilifeform: verily

asciilifeform: i do wonder sometimes how i'd organize day if i actually had whole day to tmsr

asciilifeform: but i dun expect to have this 'problem' any time soon

mircea_popescu: i dunno how hard a requirement "go on 1st pass" can be. as long as it eventually goes in...

asciilifeform: the sad troof is that ~all of asciilifeform's 'deep' worx (i.e. the ones that require loading a whole proggy / algo 'into head' ) happen on vacations & weekends (when the latter not filled with saecular crapola) rather than nights

asciilifeform: i cannot speak for e.g. trinque , phf, mod6 , but would not be surprised if same is the case there.

asciilifeform: the repeated 'loading' costs quite a bit of time.

asciilifeform: i.e. saturday, 'loading', sunday -- doing, then 5d of microshit, then new saturday, 'load' again...

mircea_popescu: my nonsense comes to me whenever it feels like -- in the shower, it ruined fucking once or twice also, often in the morn waking me up (the idea bladder is way the fuck worsew than the urine bladder -- which latter never ever wakes me up)...

asciilifeform: nicoleci: you have unclosed links in yer page, last 2 items

mircea_popescu: pretty sure there's numerous threads going ~always on in the background, dun need loading, loaded once. in like, 1996.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ideas come ~24/7. i was speaking of unrolling-into-concretes

asciilifeform: proggies, articles, theorems.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dun expect you'd have the 'reboot' problem, no.

asciilifeform: at least not in the morbid form asciilifeform gets.

asciilifeform: and yes [insert oblig thread!111] if i knew how to stop while keeping the lights on, i'd've stopped in 2013.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in other lulz, "<nicoleci> omg asciilifeform <nicoleci> i couldnt load the page fast enough to fix it before he said anything <nicoleci> its already fixed but im not voiced"

asciilifeform: confirmed, fixed.

asciilifeform: but to summarize subthread -- asciilifeform gets 1 day / wk, and that's on a ~good~ wk, to run the deep drills. the rest of the time, stuck on surface.

asciilifeform: ( luckily -- perhaps -- there's plenty to do on surface )

asciilifeform: http://logs.bvulpes.com/asciilifeform?d=2018-10-1#437758 << meanwhile conclusion of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-20#1852509 story . ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-09-20 14:21 asciilifeform: in other misc noose, chinese nao sell a 10inch spi-interfaced eink display thing with <1s refresh, fits on e.g. our rk3328-roc-cc board without solderings. theoretically a lappy can be hand-sewn .

mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-10-01 17:55 TomServo: asciilifeform: I tried getting one of the screens you mentioned here: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-20#1852509

asciilifeform: read whole thing

asciilifeform: i was able to find a film clip on www of somebody who actually got hold of the thing, and it didnt redraw in ANYTHING like 1sec

asciilifeform: so possibly for the better...

asciilifeform: 'tis a shame tho, asciilifeform would much like a rk3328 lappy that worx for whole day in open sunlight..

asciilifeform: ( no known lcd worx worth half a shit in sunlight, unless one pumps sumthing like 50 watt into the backlight, and even then )

asciilifeform: 'eink' is moar or less exactly The Right Thing for hypothetical 'thinking man's lappy'.

asciilifeform: a ~1s redraw would moar than suffice for emacs.

Mocky: plus full screen redraw not always necessary depending on how quickly 'artifact pixels' accumulate with local redraws

asciilifeform: Mocky: afaik all of the decent chipsets support 'partial draw'

asciilifeform: where you specify a rectangle etc

asciilifeform: you still need ~full draw for scrolling/paging tho

asciilifeform: i've found that i personally think palpably smoother when on balcony, in sunlight. but atm can only do this with printouts.. ☟︎

Mocky: yes but two types of redraw, one hard blanks out rect and then draws (amounts to 2 redraws), the other attempts update

asciilifeform: Mocky: correct

asciilifeform: the panels also have a common cathode thing for clear-all-accumulated-rubbish

asciilifeform: Mocky: the linked part was claimed to fit 'rpi header' (i.e. the 40pin thing on various arm boards, incl. our rk3328) with 0 solder or fancy interfacing. but apparently nodice.

asciilifeform: imho 'ideal' epaper gadget would simply have serial port and emulate vt100, and then could fit to anyffing at all.

Mocky: imo current eink refresh rate wants applications that have slightly different display semantics than what we have today which is based on 'full screen refresh has no cost' ☟︎

asciilifeform: Mocky: depends who 'we'. e.g. mine, work ok with partial refreshing.

asciilifeform: and i expect the 'vi' users even moar so.

asciilifeform: ( hell, i'd live with 'vi' myself if that were the only cost.. )

asciilifeform: mod6: the chinese make 3color thing, but it has poorer contrast than the classical one

asciilifeform: the latter gives iirc 16 shades.

asciilifeform: (4bit grey)

asciilifeform: the ordinary kind , with grey, loox indoors like 'old newspaper' but outside, in sun, is pretty great imho.

asciilifeform: i'd very willingly trade my coloured emacs for 1bit b&w thing, at least on sunny day.

asciilifeform: but i currently suspect that this is 1 of those 'only asciilifeform wants' items, and hence won't exist any time soon. ☟︎

Mocky: asciilifeform, well even partial refresh on every key press isn't ideal with eink, which 'editing in place' could be greatly reduced, but perhaps crackpot idea

asciilifeform: Mocky: it'd work entirely cleanly, imho, with 'vi'

asciilifeform: where you edit 1 line at a time, and full screen is rarely drawn

asciilifeform: that's an lcd, mod6

asciilifeform: and tiny, too.

asciilifeform: if you want lcd, can get it in any size, up to , idk, metres

asciilifeform: thread was specifically re not-lcd.

asciilifeform: mod6: as 'suitcase' ? in principle yes. iirc we even had thread.

asciilifeform: this was always possible.

asciilifeform: aside from sunlight, the other win from 'eink', mod6 , is that it draws 0 current when not drawing. ☟︎

asciilifeform: hence ideal for lappy.

asciilifeform: lcd, esp. if you want it to be visible in the day, draws quite heavy currents.

asciilifeform: i for instance am sitting in front of 350watt of lcd right nao.

asciilifeform: ( can very much feel the heat, even, from it )

phf: adafruit sells a 3" eink screen which connects over gpio, i'm not grokking why nobody's selling anything bigger. the whole field is a mystery

asciilifeform: phf: wouldja program on a 3" screen ?! ☟︎

asciilifeform: phf: funnily enuff i have that screen, experimented with use as indicator. it's dog slow.

asciilifeform: phf: you can get up to 10" panels, for ~pennies, the issue is the controller, nobody makes 1 that works with the surplus 'kindle' etc panels.

asciilifeform: and it's a fairly gnarly analogue device, with peculiar voltages and very particular ( per panel ) timings.

asciilifeform: it can e.g. 'display latest log line'

asciilifeform: but certainly no lappy substitute.

phf: asciilifeform: i'm somewhat familiar with the field, there's periodic hackaday posts about attempts to reverse engineer the whachamacallem refresh matrices or whatever specialized name they have

asciilifeform: phf: i read'em, intensely hand-sewn thing that works when phase of moon is just-so..

phf: closests i've gotten to eink display is a jailbroken kindle with a hacky local client of some sort (there's vnc and there's also a kindle native terminal). obviously unfit for real work

asciilifeform: d00d had fpga & buncha FETs for taking the outputs to the magic voltage, buck converter for generating same, painstakenly hand-placed ribbon connectors, etc

asciilifeform: phf: yea not really fit for adults

asciilifeform: ( who the fuck wants to contend with TWO linux boxen , with TWO batteries, etc )

asciilifeform: phf: iirc damned things are even temperature-sensitive

asciilifeform: phf: as i reckon, they're designed from the start to be integrated into some starvation-cheap konsoomer crapola . ergo they omit the controller.

asciilifeform: it's very spiffy tech but has fallen victim to crappleization.

asciilifeform: ( and the ones that ~do~ come with controller, are marketed to the idjit 'hackaday' crowd, and so they get this ersatz thing that half-worx )

phf: there's probably an upper bound of availability of thinking man's technology, kind of like strugatsky's "za milliard let do konca sveta". once you start hitting those limits suddenly "my baby is in hospitals these days" etc. ☟︎

asciilifeform: phf: we did have the 'mass marketism' thread, aha

asciilifeform: the availability of thinking-man tech that can't be repackaged and sold to the lolcats, is ~0 .

asciilifeform: !#s faberge

asciilifeform: or e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-08#1811277 . ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-05-08 16:58 asciilifeform: i suspect that subtracting the rolex,vertu,patek,etc. pseudo-craftsman industrial garbage, leaves the null set tho.

asciilifeform: congrats BingoBoingo !!

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: funnily enuff, i have word that the one you sent, also came in, will be picking it up shortly

phf: asciilifeform: i'm mostly making a humorous point. there was after all a time when you could connect your commodore to your cathode ray tube

asciilifeform: phf: see also http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-08#1230143 re 'thinking man's' ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2015-08-08 03:58 asciilifeform: and here is where we meet up with vlsi boojum: you can't do vlsi economically if there is room for six computers total.

asciilifeform: phf: there was, and, observe, it went away.

asciilifeform: under the humorous, there's a pretty tragic loss.

asciilifeform: and entirely pinnable on the lolcat-market.

asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu refers to it as 'the killer micro problem'

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if you can swing by the dc today, stuff 2 of the new drives into dulap plox.

asciilifeform: ( i'ma image'em for the 2 currently dead pilotplant boxen )

asciilifeform: ty BingoBoingo

asciilifeform: the living, we can move later, as the customers permit us to schedule downtime

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: fit the hedgehogs 1st plox.

asciilifeform: ( rubbing alcohol clean the surface, then stick on as many as fit , per )

asciilifeform: i gotta take off my hat to BingoBoingo's orccraft skillz.

asciilifeform: tbh i did not expect to see this crate surface.

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: lol i thought you didn't even have motorcycle yet!111

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: oh hey, post a pic of the epic crate.

asciilifeform: historic

BingoBoingo: All the stop start, change speed, twist pivot, plant shoulder for impact did a number on the thing

asciilifeform: aaaaaand i got'em ! ( http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-14#1850492 ) ty BingoBoingo ! ☝︎

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856898 << lol! i also thought ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 20:01 mod6: holy shit, they packed a cookie in there after they opened the bag?

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: item showed no obvious signs of molestation.

asciilifeform: ( i.e. prolly passed as 'paper' )

asciilifeform: ( speaking of the parcel with the dead drives )

asciilifeform: the dissection prolly won't happen till weekend tho.

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: One of the spiffy new sticks is in Dulap. Their individual height is too great to double up

asciilifeform: ty BingoBoingo

asciilifeform: got the heatsinks on ?

asciilifeform: this'll remain to be seen

asciilifeform: the old ones also seemed great until rot.

asciilifeform: i went with 'heat' as hypothesis re lifespan, and so got these with moar surface , plus room for hedgehog

asciilifeform: yet still imho the particular style of death the old ones died, was quite peculiar.

asciilifeform: and not really consistent with typical picture of ssd death.

BingoBoingo: Well, these feel like the sort of thing mircea_popescu could fill up a sack with and use for beating passers-by. The old ones not so much

BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ( i.e. prolly passed as 'paper' ) << How are you enjoying the tourist information?

asciilifeform: gave to pet to read

asciilifeform: ( mostly old noose, for me )

asciilifeform: it made a+++ packaging tho, recommended for fyootoor use

asciilifeform: diana_coman, mod6 , lobbes , let BingoBoingo & asciilifeform know when is good day to take down yer units and copy contents to new drives. ☟︎

asciilifeform: ( i expect operation will take ~3hr per. )

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: linux is retarded enuff that can't properly copy from living drive

asciilifeform: so gotta happen in dulap.

asciilifeform: dd_rescue .

asciilifeform: diana_coman, mod6 , lobbes , also give signal re whether you want the newer iptables-enabled kernel to go on your boot sd , when we take the boxen down ( iirc we already did mod6's ) ☟︎

asciilifeform: diana_coman, mod6 , lobbes : if yer feeling brave, can also keep old drive on usb2 jack, as auxiliary storage, see just how long they live...

asciilifeform: ( pizarro per se has no use for the old drives once we get errybody onto the new )

asciilifeform: rk, in case anyone forgot, has 1 usb3 and usb2 holes.

asciilifeform: ( some folx have FG, those will have 1 empty hole )

asciilifeform: *2 usb2

BingoBoingo: Photo post because for some reason the Qntra title and link bot still hasn't been banned from twitter

lobbes: asciilifeform BingoBoingo: anytime tomorrow (or tonight) worx for me. I've got my blog backed up so feel free to go-ahead whenever ready

lobbes: I would also love an iptable-enabled kernel. And ditto on keeping the old drive as an auxiliary; may as well eh