jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
mod6: To all who have nodes on this list: Please update ben_vulpes or myself if the IP or status changes of your node. Thank you.
pete_dushenski: hanbot: mine is fourth down on the 'trusted node' list
jhvh1: pete_dushenski: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: no one wants to dump bch / bcc eh ? weird. thought there'd be a line-up out the door. then again, maybe y'all already been there done that and my brokerage offer is late to the party ?
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2016-07-05 22:17 trinque: mod6: 172.86.178.46 << deedbot
mod6: and that makes up the whole list.
mod6: pete_dushenski: maybe people wanna short, gotta give these things time maybe 'eh?
pete_dushenski: "ultimately, the only way that philanthropy is really going to be able to shed its aura of noxious elitism is if the rich give up the reins of control, and allow the poor to make many, many more allocative decisions." << i lolled
☟︎ pete_dushenski: but i was as surprised as mike_c (to whom, wb btw!) that the bch --> btc market actually came through, at least for triple-digit btc sums. obv can't speak to mp-level six- or seven-digit sums.
mod6: ripe for the pickin' eh
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: a comment of mine on your latest blog post got scarfed, just a heads up in case you're not checking for pending comments regularly, or it got lost in spamola foldola.
pete_dushenski: in other nodes, my latest 0-fullheight trb sync experiment was completed in a hair under two weeks. nb i say!
☟︎ jhvh1: mike_c: Current Blocks: 481571 | Current Difficulty: 9.23233068448E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 481823 | Next Difficulty In: 252 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 4 hours, 6 minutes, and 16 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
mod6: pete_dushenski: hey, nice!
mod6: maybe that's encouraging news for mike_c who just started his sync adventure
pete_dushenski: though i'll be damned if i can gather why it is that -connect'ing to 2+ nodes jams up every few hours whereas just 1 node sync beautifully with no issues for days on end.
☟︎ pete_dushenski: mod6: ya, it was ~half the time of the last 0-fullheight trb sync i tried maybe 18 months ago, but that was on hdd and this was on ssd :)
mike_c: asciilifeform: I got some goats in the mail today. ty.
☟︎ mod6: pete_dushenski: yeah ssd helps
pete_dushenski:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-04#1693691 << re "car wheel drm" can't say i've ever lost one of the "special" nuts myself but they are indeed a thing and it's not overly surprising that the shops won't sell you new ones but if you just drop your car off there, flip them a $50 or whatever, i'm sure they can take care of it. or, y'know, just know a guy.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2017-08-04 03:21 ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: might know more
pete_dushenski: mod6: hugely. i've now got a small stockpile of 'em seeing as asciilifeform is a few years ahead of the curve and is already reporting on their 2yrish lifespans. might as well have some on hand.
☟︎☟︎ mod6: werd, was helpful info indeed.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 01:45 mike_c: asciilifeform: I got some goats in the mail today. ty.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 01:49 pete_dushenski: mod6: hugely. i've now got a small stockpile of 'em seeing as asciilifeform is a few years ahead of the curve and is already reporting on their 2yrish lifespans. might as well have some on hand.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 01:31 pete_dushenski: no one wants to dump bch / bcc eh ? weird. thought there'd be a line-up out the door. then again, maybe y'all already been there done that and my brokerage offer is late to the party ?
mike_c: trimfs, will do. thanks
pete_dushenski: as the kids these days say, you do you man, you do you.
pete_dushenski: no different than paying for fg 'discloses your inner rectal seekritz'
pete_dushenski quietly imagines that asciilifeform 's seekrit is that he's bigger holder than... mp!
pete_dushenski: but how would anyone but me know where the empty privkeys come from ? let's say i hand them off to another guy, who has no idea where they come from but via me, and then he sells on xchange, and then btc gets funneled back to you, what then ? when inquisitor comes (which he won't because he can't or he already would've) do all three of us own coins because we've each seen privkeys ?
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 01:49 pete_dushenski: mod6: hugely. i've now got a small stockpile of 'em seeing as asciilifeform is a few years ahead of the curve and is already reporting on their 2yrish lifespans. might as well have some on hand.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> dumping shitforkolade is in that sense a very private work, more than, say, proctology << AHA, balance of bleeding!
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: "another guy" can be read as no more than bch walletolade manufacturer. glhf auditing the code of the extant heaps required to sweep privkeys and send bch to xchange.
BingoBoingo: So, Trump gave an Afghanistan speech where he promised to not talk about Afghanistan specifics. Also “We are not nation-building again, we are killing terrorists”
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> to sit down on the phorq << And once sat down on phork there is problem of who to talk to among the AWS sybils.
deedbot: brlbg voiced for 30 minutes.
brlbg: trilema under ddos?
a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 11:33 spyked: also, is there any worth in trying to "physicalize" the virtual lisp machine stuff? genera runs on that from what I read.
brlbg: i get a 'complete' time out
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701414 << empire is not organised towards "protecting of the proles" or any other statement with the proles as a subject. the proles (understood deductively, as "all people", just as they understand govenment deductively, see prev discussion), as well as the environment generally are the objects, not the subjects of imperial discourse.
☝︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 11:41 spyked: !~later tell mircea_popescu re
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-20#1701196 <-- yah, but does protecting the "proles" from own stupidity even make any sense as a statement? sorta relates to idea on Trilema on whether the empire wanted to arrive to this point (can't find it right now). enfranchisement of the stupid directly lead to that.
mircea_popescu: empire is organised towards "functioning economy" ie production of goods, or "functioning culture" ie production of truths. all the subjects in imperial statements are ideals of this kind.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 12:00 spyked: !!rate valentinbuza 3 fierce hacker, cracker with research mindset
a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 12:04 asciilifeform: whereas physical 'ivory' happily did multi year uptime
a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 12:05 spyked: ok, so to sum up; 1. get ice40 fpga; 2. run fpga lisp machine (cadr?); work from that towards symbolics/ivory, or the other way around starting from symbolics.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 16:51 asciilifeform: so adder, multer, etc, etc all exist simply as devices that hang from 1 set of wires.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 12:12 spyked: asciilifeform, what do you think of minimal baremetal implementation of Lisp (RISC assembly only) on something like a MIPS core? I might be thinking this in too abstract terms, it's definitely not that easy. but I'm trying to find a middle way between working FPGA Lisp machine and Lisp on unix.
mircea_popescu: heh trilema gateway blew up. should be back within hours. thanks for reporting gl.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 14:49 phf: now i didn't find out about race conditions myself, that data point came from dks, they discovered race conditions as part of the emulator rewrite, but they have the benefit of having access to the necessary low level bits
a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 14:49 asciilifeform: phf: iron floatingpoint Must Die.
mircea_popescu: wtf is wrong with using an int machine like sane people and doing approximations in software, also like sane people ? "oh but it's non intuitive" "to idiots" "well yes"
a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 15:05 phf: to some extent something like that was done in a transition from 36xx to ivory
mircea_popescu: there's no particular requirement that the person building an ironclad factory does not own the sailship drydock in town. on the fucking contrary ; the sign of the drydock owner ~being an idiot~ is their not building an ironclad factory right down the shoreline.
mircea_popescu: your parents being rich and your friendly relations with all the elite of the town and generally your comfortable situation is a fucking baseline, not a high water mark, wtf is this, peaking in highschool like african women ?
a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 15:06 phf: pff, russian tech. spec is produced by kiril after sit in room with 2 fpga (such luxury, whole two!) and bread for three months
a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 15:16 asciilifeform begins to suspect that these folx simply got a hold of american raw dies and make a killing mounting them in sov-era specced ceramic cases with gold pins, and calling it 'new production'
a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 15:21 asciilifeform: now it is ~possible~ that the spec is disinfo, and in basement of kgb there is a rewritten alteratronic chain. but imho unlikely.
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701546 << when ceausescu died there was a very brief revival "we shall roar" orc thing because ~most of us ops in eastern europe got killed / the rest fled. so there was a bit of pushback, all the way to killing dudes way in chicago. it didn't last, principally because sometime mid 90s the decision was taken (by the russkis) the way forward is economical not operational. so ss went the cia w
☝︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 15:26 asciilifeform: imho it is strange that the contract on him had to wait until ceaucescu dead
mircea_popescu: easy to condemn this as "a mistake retrospectively", especially if one has nfi what sort of demands an operational approach places on the labour pool.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 21:18 asciilifeform: !~later tell spyked
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701446 >> on second thought, you probably could put this chore off, olimex sells a ice40-8k (largest available) with 512k of sram glued on. and this is theoretically enough to prototype . the more pressing matter is ethernet. ( afaik nobody sells an ice40 + ethernetmagnetics . and just as with ddr dram, answer is 'lattice wants you to use their larger fpgas, with THEIR toolchain'
mircea_popescu: it is ~possible~ they actually don't know what they want / don't want anything specific.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 21:30 spyked hates xilinx with passion. if only because of the bloated software
a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 21:52 asciilifeform: 'USS John S. McCain' didjaknow.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 22:26 hanbot: yeah, ty. i wonder if it wouldn't be wise to update that list monthly as part of reporting etc.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 22:36 asciilifeform: all of the pattern 'have you seen this tx?' 'no...' 'but i sent it to your node and got an ack'
a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 22:47 ben_vulpes: i struggle to imagine the poverty of system that behavior was intended to be useful on
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 01:34 pete_dushenski: "ultimately, the only way that philanthropy is really going to be able to shed its aura of noxious elitism is if the rich give up the reins of control, and allow the poor to make many, many more allocative decisions." << i lolled
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 01:42 pete_dushenski: in other nodes, my latest 0-fullheight trb sync experiment was completed in a hair under two weeks. nb i say!
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 01:43 pete_dushenski: though i'll be damned if i can gather why it is that -connect'ing to 2+ nodes jams up every few hours whereas just 1 node sync beautifully with no issues for days on end.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 02:14 asciilifeform: disclosing privs to empty addrs proves ownership to whoever finds them.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 02:22 asciilifeform: imho this hypothetical exercise falls under the banner of Do. Not. Share. Privkeyz. With. Anyone. It. Never. Ends. Well.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 02:48 asciilifeform: it may prove more economical to run spinning disks with slice raid, vs ssd.
BingoBoingo: Nothing forbids putting SSDs near a RAIP either
BingoBoingo: A RAIP being a Revolutionary/Raping Array of Independent Penises
ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, quest to eradicate commute from my life appears to be drawing to a close!
mircea_popescu: i suppose "i never commuted" should go on my list of "shit i missed out" huh.
spyked:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701761 <-- well, but. "won't somebody think of the children!" this goes on and on. it never happens in fact (as the avg gyppo in the slums of bucharest -- or "banlieue", n'est-ce pas? -- can certify), but it happens in speech. hence attempt to regulation that only increases coefficient of friction in sane economic activity.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 05:47 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701414 << empire is not organised towards "protecting of the proles" or any other statement with the proles as a subject. the proles (understood deductively, as "all people", just as they understand govenment deductively, see prev discussion), as well as the environment generally are the objects, not the subjects of imperial discourse.
spyked:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701836 <-- also, starting point for discussions with certain meatwot people who keep insisting that
https "just works", and "why don't you propose an alternative", despite their having tried the alternative in ~1st university year.
☝︎ shinohai:
http://archive.is/0TOaA "The US Navy orders "Operational pause" as it teaches sailors to actually navigate waters and use GPS, whilst all llitoral combat ships are refitted with pykrete
☟︎ spyked: valentinbuza, "Noise is a framework for crypto protocols based on Diffie-Hellman key agreement. Noise can describe protocols that consist of a single message as well as interactive protocols." in what's a tradition here,
http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=dh I'll let the more knowledgeable ppl hammer it.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-31 19:51 asciilifeform: not a single symmetric cipher other than otp has ever been proven to be worth a sparrow's fart.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 06:43 mircea_popescu: nothing forbids raiding ssds either.
mod6: I don't think these belong permanently in the SoBA each month. It would be probably a good idea for individuals who own these nodes to sign their Node IP and send that to the btc-dev mailing list. However, I seem to recall some resistance to that.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 22:31 asciilifeform: i don't much like the phrase 'trusted nodes', when you connect to trb node, you get plaintext tcp, and 0 guarantees re who or what you're actually talking to.
mod6: I'm open to suggestions for re-name.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 06:17 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701546 << when ceausescu died there was a very brief revival "we shall roar" orc thing because ~most of us ops in eastern europe got killed / the rest fled. so there was a bit of pushback, all the way to killing dudes way in chicago. it didn't last, principally because sometime mid 90s the decision was taken (by the russkis) the way forward is economical not operational. so ss went the cia w
valentinbuza: gave up chrome long time ago for firefox (with noscript + self destructing cookies). now I should start looking for alternatives.
☟︎ valentinbuza: "to improve their experience." leads to "Which top sites are users visiting?" :))
☟︎ spyked: yeah. no reason is in fact "web apps" running arbitrary code efficiently on client machines.
valentinbuza: noise is a framework for creating protocols. you have the option to create NOISE_NULL_CIPHER_TOTAL_BS protocol which is totally different from NOISE_ANOTHER_SANE_CHOICE
☟︎ valentinbuza: it is different from TLS, where whatever version you are using it has null cipher. The question should be: does someone deployed NOISE_NULL_CIPHER_TOTAL_BS? then you can blame them
valentinbuza: don't know. ask Trevor Perrin, maybe he thought of creating all the possible recipes
☟︎ valentinbuza: also "massive pile of moving parts" << not even close to TLS. as for your other questions i can't really answer.
valentinbuza: agree on the TLS part. As I told before, Noise was a partial response for spyked blog post (TLS sucks, PKI sucks). Noise is just a somewhat better choice for the TLS sucks part
valentinbuza: as you can see on the spec, it is not concerned with PKI or your authentication methods, it's up to you
☟︎ spyked: valentinbuza, my issue is that "framework" approach (as used in today's terminology) is utterly anti-engineering. one can (on the condition that they know what they're doing! and there really is no alternative to that) write own software from first principles without requiring 3rd party. or, use 3rd party only to strip of shit and output sane object (e.g.
http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=trb ), which is distinct from "framework".
valentinbuza: probably the word framework is misunderstood. Let's say you want NOISE_CURVE25519_ETC it does not provide you with curve25519 implementation, you have to create you own. It's just a schematic for protocol patterns, not a framework a la "django"
valentinbuza: i don't find the word 'standard' in the description or in the spec. it's not a standard and should not be seen as one
valentinbuza: it's an attempt to make some things better than TLS (or other data in transit protocol) as opposed to other ways of creating software such as "we use TLS because it's standard, we have no clue what to do and just use what everybody is using" and sell it as military grade
valentinbuza: probably. but i think that your argument is invalid because you say that "in TLS ingredients suck and recipe sucks" and "in Noise ingredients suck therefore the recipe also sucks"
☟︎ spyked: re schematic for protocol patterns, why not use e.g. petri nets for the model (assuming that works) then just implement from that? why add extra software? ehm. it seems like they're trying to automate some work, but that automation trades off actual understanding, i.e. by introducing (IMHO useless) levels of abstraction.
valentinbuza: asciilifeform, two things can suck and one can suck less. But instead of throwing a lot of arguments, why not propose your ingredients and recipes?
spyked: valentinbuza, to exemplify asciilifeform's point ^ I shall quote from the docs: "A Noise protocol begins with two parties exchanging handshake messages. During this handshake phase the parties exchange DH public keys and perform a sequence of DH operations" <-- this requires me to import a couple of concepts: handshake messages, DH public keys, there may be others along the line. now, given that my crypto brain-memory module is not
spyked: loaded (because I don't use this day-to-day), I must consult these items in great detail. my guess here is that once I have spent all the time to learn, the "framework" becomes useless, because the mental framework is in place.
☟︎ spyked: on the other hand, if I take these items for granted, joke's on me, which is exactly what "modern engineering" philosophy relies on.
valentinbuza: 'time to learn, the "framework" becomes useless, because the mental framework is in place.' << my guess is not, but I don't think we have a conclusion on this with a sample of 2 points
spyked: valentinbuza, maybe not, but then if you have everything loaded in head, the most you can do is rip the useless parts apart and leave *only* what fits into the problem at hand. which turns "framework" into "item that solves particular problem". it is essential to not leave *anything else* there.
shinohai: This is why we have asciilifeform 's "fits in head" (tm) (r) (tmsr)
spyked: think about it, the problem of e.g. C software is that unsanitized inputs let users do *whatever* they like with it, i.e. arbitrary computetion. which goes way beyond program specification.
spyked: yes, and C is I think it's a good example to illustrate the larger issue. it's a snowball thing, in the sense that it's sometimes enough to have 1 hole to break everything. incidentally most recent popularized vulns (not necessarily in C) fit there.
spyked: shellshock: "let's call this general-purpose function that executes programs in a shell".
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 10:17 valentinbuza: spyked, people who are serious about transport security (data in transit) shy away from TLS and they craft their own stripped down version using Noise Protocol Framework (
http://noiseprotocol.org/index.html) a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 10:36 shinohai:
http://archive.is/0TOaA "The US Navy orders "Operational pause" as it teaches sailors to actually navigate waters and use GPS, whilst all llitoral combat ships are refitted with pykrete
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 12:08 asciilifeform: ( implementation becomes an underhanded-C-contest in concealing the fact of ~any~ box running the idiocy reverting to nullcipher on demand )
shinohai: And I thank thee, mircea_popescu , fpr reminding me that the US Navy + Pykrete = eterenal meme
mircea_popescu: wait, is it because india names its ships NSS Blabla sopmething we're supposed to believe "that's just what';s done" ? rather than "oh look, orc HMS!!!" ?
mircea_popescu: there is no substantial difference between us and british navy just like there's no substantial difference between us and nazy atomic program.
shinohai: If I paint `TMSR` in gold lettering on my bathtub boats, am I now admiral of Navy?
mircea_popescu: we should get ice-cube trays with various TMSR ship names on the inside.
shinohai: Raised lettering, so it is imprinted on ice as it solidifies
shinohai: Our Navy is so much more vast and complicated
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 12:25 asciilifeform: but lattice per se is EXACTLY like xilinx, same profit model, closed arch, license 'ip cores'. their larger flagship fpga is exactly like xilinx 'spartan', full of proprietary peripherals, and that's the one that tends to get packaged into devboards with nic etc
shinohai is prod to assert that he knows a woman irl skilled in the handling of wartenberg wheel
mircea_popescu: not a matter of that. a matter of, hey, we're actually significantly smarter than you, come hang out, who knows, maybe you gain something.
mircea_popescu: that's the fucking position, wtf do i want FROM a bunch of fiat rottinculo.
mircea_popescu: i don't specifically care. it's a simple "come see whether you are good enough to seep people into your company or lose all your brain power to our better model".
mircea_popescu: it's important to find out, after all most fiat unis/tech corps/whatever actually to this day harbor the managerial delusion that they can in fact compete with the republic on a flesh basis.
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 3960.0, vol: 20588.27113964 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 3960.0, vol: 53677.78176461 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 4037.538399, vol: 22536.54470000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 3984.0, vol: 9236.13133613 | Volume-weighted last average: 3978.56976943
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 12:40 asciilifeform: say you have 4 holes. use 3 mechanicals + 1 ssd, then few months in, replace a mechanical, then again, year later, whole thing is ssd that will not ever simultaneously burn , in theory.
mircea_popescu: but yes, the principle is correct : make raid out of same items, then a few months in change one. though it doesn't need to be changed. then use THAT in the next raid you build.
mircea_popescu: as age is a great predictor of ssd failure and the shits are perfectly capable of dying same week.
mircea_popescu: (raid reconstruct is io intensive, could push over the edge the redundancy, dying disk)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, which aspect makes them slightly better than spinsters, which actually become unreadable.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 14:20 mod6:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701801 << Sounds like there should be a link to the trusted-nodes page in the HOWTO maybe. Also, a once per-month round-up of me asking for Node-Updates, if there are any.
mircea_popescu: not a bad idea at all ; was going to come up when we were finally making the tmsr hdd controllers. but even early dun hurt anything.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 14:35 asciilifeform: when saw that the ~original~ src was a pile of shithacks, lost interest in anything but the electron microscopy path ( like it or not, 1uM process folks were ~forced~ to make compact description )
mircea_popescu: switch over my shoulder grinning and bobbing her head. "yeah, what men need to perform is constriction."
mircea_popescu: she's a slavegirl here ; otherwise luvs torturing bois in her free time.
mircea_popescu: the point is not without merit, though. ~all the competent, at artisan level, males, the dudes working leather and metal and wood and whatnot ~competently~ are virtually all 50 yo doods with very much a slave mentality.
☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: amusingly enough, the fear of one generation became the reality of the next. funny how it never worked that way re nuke ; but did work that way re craft.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the actual reason, i am persuaded, is that the formerly VERY competitive, fragmented talent finally pooled starting mid 1989 and ending six months later.
mircea_popescu: it was a case of "the inept management died, and the bright kids republiced in their absence". blasted through everything.
mircea_popescu: but romania ended up with a competent secret service mostly through infiltrating kgb, not through competition with the deeply inept burgeoises.
mircea_popescu: it was decent and no more back when the principal target was the german kingdom. same exact evolution in tito's aglutination, actually.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 16:59 mircea_popescu: the point is not without merit, though. ~all the competent, at artisan level, males, the dudes working leather and metal and wood and whatnot ~competently~ are virtually all 50 yo doods with very much a slave mentality.
mircea_popescu: dude was fascinating though. completely inept linguistically, entirely uncultivated (no highschool degree). undeterred.
mircea_popescu: he'd go consult with mp with a list of questions, and MEMORIZE the fucking answers.
mircea_popescu: one of the rare cases where sheer discipline carried the day.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 15:15 valentinbuza: gave up chrome long time ago for firefox (with noscript + self destructing cookies). now I should start looking for alternatives.
mircea_popescu: it may seem offputting at first, "where's my rounded corners" reaction. then if you stick with it for a few weeks you might discover the IMMENSE productivity gains of text-only.
mircea_popescu: 2. eye trying to orient in the "user friendly" graphical bloat is an incomprehensibly huge wastage of bioresources.
mircea_popescu: and finally of course there's the important 3. pages that fail to work through this process are very rarely worth reading, you basically gain an entry filter more valuable than readily intuited.
mircea_popescu: all these together add up to triple digit productivity gains.
mircea_popescu: man who uses computer to do work never fails to discover this. the only thing is that most children start their intellectual life using computers for entertainment (which is entirely natural) and the transition happens naturally only if child is exposed to environment that permits manhood.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, stays child / vaguely transitions into cvasi-girl over time.
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701913 <<< it's not just that. firefox rendering engine has been forever broken, since version 5 or so. i dunno what version they're at by now, 60 or 160 or w/e, but they never actyually got the manpower together to fix the problem. which problem is -- not memory stable!!! most gfx pages will eat up firefox memory at linear rate over time. which means that the browser will always crash, no m
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 15:16 asciilifeform: ( firefox is the one that has the added 'feature' of eating GBs of ram for no reason )
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 15:18 valentinbuza: "to improve their experience." leads to "Which top sites are users visiting?" :))
a111: Logged on 2017-08-17 20:30 asciilifeform: but in very other olds, apparently in an obscure article in '09 bernstein shows how to eliminate one of the middle-term additions of karatsuba .
deedbot: r0nin- voiced for 30 minutes.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 15:26 asciilifeform: valentinbuza: also recommend to read the mircea_popescu's intro, in the chan greetingline
mircea_popescu: r0nin- don't tell me you got fresh reading recommendations ?
r0nin-: ive got tailoring recommendations this time
r0nin-: whats a decent suit go for there anyway in argentina?
mircea_popescu: the one i picked up when ben_vulpes was visiting set me back 10k.
mircea_popescu: hm dude how quicly one forgets. wtf was it, cabildo cartago lessee
r0nin-: how they doing that? fabric is like $100 a meter
mircea_popescu: r0nin- not terrible. old jew, knows his trade. anyway fabric varies wildly, this was a light linen thing. they'll make it out of anything, including bring-your-own
r0nin-: well its a very good price compared to europe
mircea_popescu: but yes, tailoring tourism fits well with argentina. land, go straight to tailor, have measures taken, go to exedra or w/e pick up a coupla hookers, come back a week later pick up your half dozen suits and jump into plane.
mircea_popescu: 4-5k for the tickets + 4-5k for the hotel + 4-5k for the whores + 4.5k for the suits = 20k and you've a bunch of stories to tell.
r0nin-: Rome 3k euro for anyone that knows what they are doing
mircea_popescu: i know plenty of people spending a lot more for a week's vacation and getting a whole lot less.
r0nin-: linen is a 1 wear though before it needs a press from the wrinkles
mircea_popescu: oh, yeah, that suit's dead by now. but it served well in the heat.
mod6: I should have gotten a few.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform shocking how many buyers tolerate the synthetics these days.
mod6: Damn heat + humidity up here is starting to get annoying everyday.
mircea_popescu: anyway, rome is not really on the map for the sartorial gentleman. and the only thing that puts italy on the map is marcha, go pick a few pairs of shoes.
r0nin-: Rome is on the map becuase of caraceni
☟︎ mircea_popescu: r0nin- i guess. anyone's entitled to his own favoritas.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, in the 70s. it ain't the 70s anymore.
mircea_popescu: tell you what though : in the 70s everyone was getting his hjookers in italy, from visconti to the swiss.
r0nin-: italian tailors are all dieing off
r0nin-: new gen doesnt want to apprentice
mircea_popescu: or to anything, really. they'll reddit, that's about it.
mircea_popescu: and why should they! human rights! living wage! no rape!
r0nin-: www.tommyegiuliocaraceni.com/
r0nin-: rome is worth it for them alone
mircea_popescu: nobody goes "oh fuck, unemployment among < 25 yos is 50% ? hahaha! pick up all kids, beat them for a week solid, then see."
mircea_popescu: tell them, too. it;'s either unemploymenty under 2% or beatings for a week straight each month.
mircea_popescu: wtf is this "We'll solve the problems for them". no, bitch. we think the unemployment among X group is too high, that group gets beaten until it fixes it!
ben_vulpes: wasn't that the premise of 'austerity'?
r0nin-: austerity was to remove all $ from economy to protect bondholders
r0nin-: drive wages to as close to zero as possible
mircea_popescu: r0nin- ayup. and it is the correct move if you'ere not willing to actually beat the fuckers.
mircea_popescu: but i very much recommend actual, physical, public-pillory beatings.
r0nin-: government created trillions in new fiat to bail out financial sector and then they told everyone they have to accept 90% wage reductions
r0nin-: mircea: why should everyone be impoverished so a few misers can stare at their shitty bonds?
mircea_popescu: i don't care how. this isn't explainy hour. the cooperation of the fucker-upper is neither sought nor required.
mircea_popescu: let them fucking figure out how. i just give out the signal if.
r0nin-: the fucker upper was the bondholder
r0nin-: yes compound interest once again overwhelmhed the economies ability to keep up
mircea_popescu: capital failing situation is eg, enemy bombardment. then capital fails, then you protect labour.
shinohai: Oh mircea_popescu , you forgot to tell me that (x) altcoin was going TO TEH MOON
r0nin-: no economic engine in history can keep up with compounding interest
mircea_popescu: r0nin- veneta kept up for a millenium. no SOCIALIST system in history can keep up with its socialism, which is why roman empire and usian empire both crapped.
r0nin-: roman empire collapsed becuase of usury
r0nin-: soldiers lost all their farms due to compounding
r0nin-: more and more wealth concentrated into latifundas
r0nin-: youve got it the opposite, overtime compounding outstrips the economies ability to generate surplus
mircea_popescu: wealth concentrated in latifundias to protect itself from the inept mismanagement of soldiers who had become welfare cases over a century since marian's obamacare.
r0nin-: the soldiers werent around they were out battling
r0nin-: their farms got posted as collateral for high interest rates
mircea_popescu: nonsense. after 20-25 years of battling, soldier got money and land.
mircea_popescu: early soldier cultivated it and built a civilisation. late soldier attempted to live above his means to justify socially his internal ineptitude.
r0nin-: how do you live beyond your means? all consumption is a result of present production
mircea_popescu: much exactly like the history of the us, except stretched over 3x the time.
r0nin-: what happened was all the $ went into so few hands you had deflation everywhere
r0nin-: becuase a rich miser is hoarding
r0nin-: deflation kills off consumption so you get a situation where theres literally no market to sell your produce in
mircea_popescu: understand something : a new chicken is born on a farm. this chicken grows into either capital good or else consumption. THE SAME chicken.
r0nin-: while interest payments keep growing
mircea_popescu: they started eating their chickens. living above means.
r0nin-: interest continues no matter the productive capacity of the farm
mircea_popescu: and the undersranding of this being what it is, is universal. flaubert has piece explaining how dr bovary sucked at farming because he ate his farm.
mircea_popescu: that's 1800s. throughout, everywhere, including the self-same romans understand this.
r0nin-: they didnt eat their farms
mircea_popescu: which is why they had the office of the censor, and which is why it was illegal for the womenz to wear expensive textiles, and so on.
mircea_popescu: no, they ate their farms. exactly as how 1600s frenchmen ate their farms, became "french republic" because too poor to continue kingdom.
r0nin-: if you have 100% private debt to gdp, and 3% interest, even if you economy expands at 3% all the gains go to interest
r0nin-: thats what europe and US is at now
mircea_popescu: living above means -> economic failure -> ra ra socialism -> guillotine. that's how the engine works.
mircea_popescu: then guillotine brings in a new normal in terms of social proofs, which allows the cycle to start over.
r0nin-: all output was taken by rentiers
mircea_popescu: in a dozen or so cycles, france goes from main country in the world to footnote in geographical area.
r0nin-: what farm can expand at 10% every year?
trinque: god if only the rentiers would give back our precious appstore wealth
mircea_popescu: happened to rome, happened to paris, happened to london.
r0nin-: every single one of those examples is riddled with usury
r0nin-: its basic mathematics here
r0nin-: rome had interest rates from 7-20%, made it impossible for farms to keep increasing output
mircea_popescu: your usury thing is not unlike linking organized crime with belt buckles. because belt buckles present at all shootings! and made of tin-copper alloy!
mircea_popescu: r0nin- farm doesn't HAVE to increase output. if the sconto rate is too high, i will simply sell an extra egg and invest.
mircea_popescu: and keep doing this until the economy is too flush with savings to keep the rates high.
r0nin-: no your egg sale goes to interest payments
mircea_popescu: and if the rates are high, i increase savings and push the rates down.
r0nin-: interest rates are not a function of savings
mircea_popescu: because why, because i gotta spend money i don't have on suits i can't afford to impress r0nin- ?
r0nin-: how many times does that myth have to be told
mircea_popescu: again, because man, and because don't owe anyone anything.
r0nin-: theres no such thing as an economy without credit
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no but in the country where "everyone agreed" not to save, then savings depressing rate is a myth. much like in class where "the class community" has agreed not to do any homework, the punishment for missing homework is a myth.
r0nin-: you are confusing nominal financial savings with real savings
r0nin-: a productive farm is a real saving
r0nin-: financial savings are abstract
mircea_popescu: whole fucking principle of interest is based on nominalism.
r0nin-: rome was a usury economy
mircea_popescu: and IT EXISTS so as to bring the names in coupling with reality.
r0nin-: interest is not a natural occuring element
mircea_popescu: that's why socialists hate interest so much : because it is the prick that deflates the nominalist balloons into the reality shapes subiacent.
deedbot: r0nin- voiced for 30 minutes.
r0nin-: socialists dont hate interest
mircea_popescu: r0nin- not all of them speak of it ; all hate it like you do.
r0nin-: socialism comes about as a reaction to deflation brought about by compounding
r0nin-: its the pus that forms when the body politic is sick of capitalism
mircea_popescu: mno. socialism comes about as the young failure discovers other kids can in fact morph into adults.
r0nin-: as i said mircea its simple math.
r0nin-: no economy can keep up with the power of compounding
mircea_popescu: socialism is 100% a 12yo girl noticing the other girl has tits and she doesn't. that's where socialism is born, in the 7th grade class.
r0nin-: government came in and created trillions of fiat to bail out bondholders
r0nin-: and told the rest of the economy they have to massively shrink and somehow still pay
mircea_popescu: summer ends, girls come back to school, some with tits. the ones without -- discover socialism. that first week in september.
r0nin-: mircea: do you understand spending = income?
r0nin-: there is no savings without spending.
r0nin-: if you reduce spending you reduce income
r0nin-: contracting output and increasing debt ratios
mircea_popescu: if you reduce spending you reduce REAL consumption and NOMINAL income
r0nin-: meaning business shuts doors.
mircea_popescu: that's the fucking problem. the bezzle rate = difference between real and nominal growth.
mircea_popescu: reduction in spending slows down the growth of the bezzle.
r0nin-: interest rates are a abstract they can be whatever
r0nin-: the natural rate of interest in any economy is zero.
r0nin-: becuase as i said if you take 2 100 bills and put them in a shelf they dont produce children.
r0nin-: inflation = compound interest.
r0nin-: all economies with high inflation have high interest rates
mircea_popescu: wtf is with this nonsensical "now i will repeat debunked nonsense insistently!" mode.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 15:31 valentinbuza: noise is a framework for creating protocols. you have the option to create NOISE_NULL_CIPHER_TOTAL_BS protocol which is totally different from NOISE_ANOTHER_SANE_CHOICE
mircea_popescu: some kids who couldn't get laid got together and created... a framework for... other people getting laid.
mircea_popescu: this sound familiar ? and if familiar, does it still make sense ?
mircea_popescu: (no, i don't just mean reddit pick-up artistry. anglican church same exact thing.)
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 15:34 valentinbuza: don't know. ask Trevor Perrin, maybe he thought of creating all the possible recipes
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701941 << the dispute you ended up in is due to the fact that he recognizes a pattern you do not. whether you will come to recognize it in time or not is an open matter, and not required for the discussion. the point is, the way the empire resolves the problem of practical failure (tls is a piece of shit ; socialism is risible bullshit) is to take refuge in meta (here's a tls-framework! let'
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 15:40 valentinbuza: as you can see on the spec, it is not concerned with PKI or your authentication methods, it's up to you
mircea_popescu: this ever-meta-regression is a prominent feature of broken ideal systems, a good model for which is of course adolescentine "irony".
mircea_popescu: girl notices she dun have tits, is "ironic" about it ; that dun help, she's "ironic" about it not working, becomes janine garofalo. PROBLEM SOLVED! and if not solved, can always be ironic about being janine garofalo.
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701949 << very much a standard in the proper sense. standard should specify what must be specified, and NOT specifiy what needn't be specified. which is why all tmsr standards, or at least the ones i wrote, have this very prominent characteristic. "do it whichever way you do it". connects straight up with ye olde specificity of diddling.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 15:47 asciilifeform: a 'standard' that consists of 'go and implement whatever you like' is not a standard in any meaningful sense.
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701957 << no, his objection actually is "tls ingredient sucks and recipe sucks whereas noise is not a recipe and it doesn't have ingredients". he is correclty rejecting what, contrary to elaborately crafted appearance, is a null cipher.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 15:57 valentinbuza: probably. but i think that your argument is invalid because you say that "in TLS ingredients suck and recipe sucks" and "in Noise ingredients suck therefore the recipe also sucks"
mircea_popescu: i want to take the time here and delve upon the recursion for your benefit.
mircea_popescu: the point re thompson's compiler is easily misunderstood, in the sense of being conceptualized too narrowly. that unwarranted narrowness then permits you to handwave his objection re null ciphers in the actual technical discussion ; but look how you fell for an obfuscated null cipher yourself right here!
mircea_popescu: the items are DANGEROUS, specifically because they exploit a fundamental weakness of the human brain. they're like guns to dodos, unperceived, deadly.
mircea_popescu: now consider the by now famous
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583902 and understand that the negative case WILL get the brightest minds. not once or twice, it's perfecrtly capable of getting you again and again and this doesn'rt even speak to how smart you are. how inexperienced at best, in terms of "not yet wounded by practical experience enough to systematically reject the null case".
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 06:24 trinque: in other python 2 was already shit... all([]) -> True yet any([]) -> False
mircea_popescu: and in other life and times, i have a table out on a balcony overlooking the valley where i oft have breakfast. a week or so ago it gained a little wolf spider, he hunts on it. he's there every morning, and if i sit down to eat he leaves to hide in a crevice somewhere while the disturbance lasts.
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701966 << more importantly, and more subtly, it sells you on the notion that "dh is a prerequisite for handshakes", which happens to be false. for one thing, you can shake a friend's hand without the usg being involved. for another, gossipd does not use dh for handshake. in short, the usgtardian nonsense is always there to distract you while it implants simpler points deep into the reptile b
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 16:04 spyked: loaded (because I don't use this day-to-day), I must consult these items in great detail. my guess here is that once I have spent all the time to learn, the "framework" becomes useless, because the mental framework is in place.
mircea_popescu: rain. whole country runs as an advertising firm, "keep 'em talking about what color highschool uniforms should be, as long as they do they've already accepted they'll wear fucking pantsuits to school like retards".
mircea_popescu: you should see the latina chicks btw. they're all in school-mandated, half-thigh pleated skirts and whatnot, different colors. it's a whole level of japan over here.
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 18:53 mircea_popescu: you should see the latina chicks btw. they're all in school-mandated, half-thigh pleated skirts and whatnot, different colors. it's a whole level of japan over here.
mircea_popescu: and in other lulz, speaking of catholic latinas etc : the dispute between "progressives" and "christian fundamentalists" never ceases to amaze me. here you have two pantsuit groups which both agree with the fundamental pantsuit "every sperm is sacred". their disagreement is re when "every sperm is sacred" starts : the jesus pantsuit thinks it's at age -9 months ; the progre pantsuit thinks it's at - something, not quite 9 mon
☟︎ mircea_popescu: which, amusingly, makes the jesus pantsuits ACTUALLY MORE PROGRESSIVE than the new yorker crowd.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: somehow the participants manage to insulate themselves from these obviously very toxic facts
BingoBoingo: <r0nin-> theres no such thing as an economy without credit << There is no obligation to take on credit, or keep "revolving" credit accounts
mircea_popescu: except of course wife wants house to lay eggs into because "all the other girls arew doing it"
mircea_popescu: o and what a nice header day it is, too. or should i say moon.
mircea_popescu: ftr, only a coupla of those five actually work. i can connect to 46.166.165.30 regularly but can not connect to eg 108.31.170.49
☟︎ mod6: mircea_popescu: hey! cool. thanks for adding that in there. lemme look those IPs up quick.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-05 22:43 mod6: <+asciilifeform> zoolag live as of now at ye olde 108.31.170.49 . << thanks for the update.
mod6: And as far as I know, that one is re-syncing.
☟︎ trinque: mircea_popescu: can't connect to deedbot's node eh?
mod6: Attention rest of the node operators: Can you vouch for your node being online? Ideally, it should have 95% or better uptime.
mod6: fwiw, I almost never connect to these myself.
mod6: Occasionally when I'm trying to do a test or some such thing.
trinque: looks like I've got 25 connections atm
mod6: Basically, operators are responsible for keeping the nodes going.
mod6: trinque: sounds good.
mircea_popescu: mod6 same here, may be too short sampling etc. will update tonight.
mircea_popescu: trinque fwiw, a public node very rarely goes under 1-200 in my experience.
mod6: Ok, sure. Let me know how it goes.
trinque: I'm connected to it myself from elsewhere, but who knows what's going on.
mircea_popescu: trinque are you one block behind btw ? i think that might make this setup not count you
trinque: so yeah, looks like there's one ahead yet
mircea_popescu: mod6 since these are public and publicly known, how about adding an irc name next to the ip ? so i know who to talk to.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 21:40 mod6: And as far as I know, that one is re-syncing.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 21:35 mircea_popescu: ftr, only a coupla of those five actually work. i can connect to 46.166.165.30 regularly but can not connect to eg 108.31.170.49
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 21:36 mircea_popescu: nor to 172.86.178.46
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 since these are public and publicly known, how about adding an irc name next to the ip ? so i know who to talk to. << sure, working on the updates now...
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 481648 | Current Difficulty: 9.23233068448E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 481823 | Next Difficulty In: 175 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 22 hours, 52 minutes, and 15 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
mod6: Ok all: trinque, ben_vulpes, asciilifeform, pete_dushenski, mircea_popescu : I have updated the trusted-nodes page, please take a look and verify that the information for your nodes is correct, thank you!
http://thebitcoin.foundation/trusted-nodes.html shinohai: My node info is incorrect .... it is 0.0.0.0
BingoBoingo: ^ From the between Berlin and Moscow department of departments