tmsr - Log 2019-04-23

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-21#1909189 << naah. also left behind all sorta electronics etc. it's nonsensical to take peaches to the orchard. ☝︎

mp_en_viaje: i dunno if you know the subtext there, but anyway, at some point in the 90s romanians got REALLY butthurt someone thought budapest is the capitol.

mp_en_viaje: oh no, wait, it wasn't michael jackson. it was that retarded fat fuck that subbed for bruce dickinson in 1995.

a111: Logged on 2019-04-21 20:56 feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/04/mexican-troops-draw-weapons-make-us-soldiers-their-bitch-on-us-side-of-rio-grande/ << Qntra -- Mexican Troops Draw Weapons, Make US Soldiers Their Bitch On US Side Of Rio Grande

a111: Logged on 2018-05-23 03:37 mircea_popescu: Mocky, there's a usg-reservation in mexico. there's however also the headquarters of the only military force to humiliate the usg at home to date, they pretty much conquered the old mexican lands well into arizona.

a111: Logged on 2019-04-22 00:00 asciilifeform: in entirely unrelated heathen lulz : asciilifeform found an -- apparently working -- usb 'serial device' stack for ice40 . only eats 1/3 of the LUTs in the '8k', too.

asciilifeform: tho i do find it interesting, that it is difficult ( unlike on von neumann cpu ) to write a fpga filling that 'worx sometimes'

a111: Logged on 2019-04-22 07:40 spyked: in spyked updates: feedbot-iii is scheduled to be published this week, followed by schedule for next work, followed by (by now late) pics from http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907055

a111: Logged on 2019-04-22 14:29 spyked: asciilifeform, unfortunately 2GB (max. supported by motherboard) might still not be enuff. ideally I would plug in ave1 gnat build and use it to build a minimal system, but will prolly have to bootstrap the whole thing on another machine.

a111: Logged on 2019-02-17 15:03 mircea_popescu: "/* The count field we have in the main struct object is somewhat limited, but should suffice for virtually all cases. If the counted value doesn't fit, re-write a zero. The worst that happens is that we re-count next time -- admittedly non-trivial in that this implies some 2M fdes, but at least we function. */"

a111: Logged on 2019-04-22 15:03 asciilifeform: i.e. i was able to build conventional gentoo ( per my old recipe ) w/out any such thing in the mix

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909254 << nah, not worth doing. the approach is probably to find some other way, tcc or w/e, to replace the gcc step-by-step peeling of layers of filth. ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2019-04-22 16:03 trinque: if somebody finds a way of leaping directly from gcc6 to 4, I'll applaud him, but I'm not burning any more hours of life in there

mp_en_viaje: just because the entire "mes" thing turned out to be a single dude who further turned out to be a moron does not immediately resolve the matter of whether tcc can be bent into usable shape ; nor whether it should be confiscated wioth a view towards such bending. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-03-26 19:58 mircea_popescu: bvt, http://archive.is/febOU#selection-255.67-255.135 challenge specifically offers you excellent entry point : there's a bunch of contact details available, what's "me" resolve to as a provision endpoint.

mp_en_viaje: but it seems doubtless that on the long term, the eulora-style of "isolate, strangle and diminish" approach is the only way to handle c. rather than provide support for it, produce some kind of small and compact translator that permits most of the "features" it "offers" to die quietly while not getting in our way in any major sense.

mp_en_viaje: basically, c (not the code, nor the language -- the UNIVERSE, all encompassing, the mentalities of all they involved, their cultural productions over the decades, the horses they used and the women they mounted -- the whole universe) is a wart upon reason. like a hemorrhoid or something. you take your wart to the doctor, he ties a string tightly around it and well... it falls off eventually. ☟︎☟︎

mp_en_viaje: nobody does micro-surgery to re-allign the tiny rectal blood vessels and remove the hernia that caused the hemorrhoid in the first place. i don' tthink we should either, but rather, discover some working and workable string.

mp_en_viaje: i confess i had hoped this may solve itself ; but then again c evidently only attracts a certain kind of person. whatever it may be they ~say~, whenever it seems

mp_en_viaje: when push comes to shove, the dude writing the page about "how to fix c" that seemed sane on superficial examination will come out as exactly the same mind as what produced the problem in the first place.

mp_en_viaje: i suppose this is not even vaguely new, at least not to people familiar with politics. http://www.ilcaragiale.eu/opere/articole/frati_radicali.html is from 1890s ; but otherwise, the "very principled and intransigent opposition politician" is... well... http://www.ilcaragiale.eu/opere/momente_si_schite/unchiul_si_nepotul.html

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909401 << whatever else can be said re bolix -- they had the Right Thing pill for this. 'yes you can build a c proggy on this iron; no it won't win you 'speed'.' ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 13:59 mp_en_viaje: basically, c (not the code, nor the language -- the UNIVERSE, all encompassing, the mentalities of all they involved, their cultural productions over the decades, the horses they used and the women they mounted -- the whole universe) is a wart upon reason. like a hemorrhoid or something. you take your wart to the doctor, he ties a string tightly around it and well... it falls off eventually.

asciilifeform: i've been slowly eating the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-01#1906471 + relateds, and seeing exactly how this was baked, it is quite interesting. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-04-01 14:08 asciilifeform: in other noose, asciilifeform nao has what appears to be full pinout, timing, bus sequence, register, init magic, interrupts, etc. spec for bolix 'ivory' (won't, presently, say from where, unless source wants to be cited, plox to write in. )

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: at least month -- there's a heavy piece i haven't even started yet -- keccak

mp_en_viaje: alright, well, month's not bad -- by the time you're done with ffa you can start a mega-bolix series.

mp_en_viaje: AND, with all the experience from ffa, you actually got what you need as a basis to actually make that megaspire work.

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i've deliberately not gone beyond 'read papers in hammock' stage for bolixism, on acct of this.

asciilifeform: 1st item tho will be to bake the cpu interposer i drew up the day i got the seekritdirt.

asciilifeform: little flex pcb thing, inserts under the 'ivory' and brings the signals out to analyzer. ☟︎

asciilifeform: thing moves at 8mhz and has slightly more than 100 active signal lines, not esp. tall order.

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909271 << we picked 4.something as an arbitrary cutoff at some point illo tempore, through a mostly passive schelling / ad hoc agreement procedure. whatever the merits of the actual spot picked -- picking MULTIPLE ones is bad in the sense you get the downside multipled and nothing else. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-04-22 16:15 trinque: why not gcc3 or 2 then? where'd the thompson come in?

asciilifeform: ( funny thing, it actually has a debug pin that pisses out microcode index of current microinstruction )

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: not entirely arbitrary, there was a ~massive~ increase in bulk + documented wtf's at 5.0

mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, "arbitrary', yes. the sorta arbitrary we do here, only called that in the sense i am not about to engage the relativistic dorkitudes of pantsuited morons.

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: was built to be debugged, it their 1st (and last) piece of in-house silicon

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909277 << possibly ; though also rather large and involved. but we see. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-04-22 16:18 trinque: in fact, now that caught, repair *should* commence. gcc is the best first thing to fix.

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909282 << at the very least a well documkented failed attempt will provide plenty of most informative tidbits. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-04-22 16:20 trinque: would be great to see ave1 take this on, and then perhaps get deterministic bins. could cut official ISOs from there

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: the 'snip out timestamp nonsense from gcc' thing has been itching since '15 ☟︎

asciilifeform: ( afaik that's the only source of nondeterminism , at least for particular frozen gcc pov )

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909295 << he's got a hydraulic rotating platform, firing gau-8 HE shells. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-04-22 16:35 PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-21#1909210 << are you shooting the raccoons with a SKS, or am I mistakenly mixing these log lines together?

a111: Logged on 2019-04-22 16:40 PeterL: I was in a gun store in 2010, they had an SKS for $120, but I didn't get it, wish I did, now they run about $450 around here

mp_en_viaje: rarely seen state of affairs at us gun shops ; generally gun worth 3-500 selling for 1-2k. sks surely worth the 300.

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: when sovok folded , usa market was awash in grade-a 'museum' small arms , for pennies

mp_en_viaje: of course, the problem with "terrible gun" is that 99.9x% of users are such fucking shit, the gun's shortcomings don't even show in the end product.

asciilifeform: nagant is a pleasure to shoot, btw ( if famously underpowered by modern standards )

mp_en_viaje: if there's one dood in a hundred in whose case the gun's the weak link in the gun-gunner dipole, it's a wonder.

mp_en_viaje: not even limited to marksmanship. it's just a general... look, if you're gonna be the sorta guy who uses rifle, guess who you sleep with at night.

a111: Logged on 2019-04-22 17:02 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: here's an old asciilifeform crackpottery : why exactly can't one buy clothes dryer that runs on vacuum pump, instead of heater.

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909338 << he has a point ; you're still paying the lambda heat no matter what method you're paying it through. 15k is 15k. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-04-22 17:06 PeterL: you don't just have to get the vacuum, you also have to vaporize the water

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909341 << amusingly, that's whereabouts here too, 80-100kgs/week or so. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-04-22 17:09 PeterL: I run about 10 loads of wash a week, I don't want something that only handles one T-shirt at a time

a111: Logged on 2019-04-22 20:26 BingoBoingo: Follow up: Wants to know if anyone is hiring, informed him a couple datacenter places in Sao Paulo appear to be growing fast.

BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909375 << This was exceptional in that it involved the uniform wearing sort of troop as opposed to the known to be incredibly successful irregular forces. ☝︎☟︎

BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909472 << Well he had his opportunities to demonstrate helpfulness, but apparently he has issues with that. Anyways the locals obsess over the "careers" they get in school, have the very US pre-2008 expectation that they get to neatly slot into those careers (not that this worked in the US outside of that brief window in the 1950s, but the 2008 crisis is when the media narrative changed to counter the ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 14:56 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909353 << i was gonna say, dood prolly desperate for employment.

BingoBoingo: expectation).

trinque: dunno what the guy thought he had coming, trying to play the "freedom of the press is real!!1" line

asciilifeform: tbf normally reich subject needs visa for moscow ( i dun know how, precisely, s got around this on moment's notice ) ☟︎

asciilifeform: i suspect that trinque is right tho, and assange had some sorta cockroach in his head re 'honest press exists and will wake up' etc

trinque: I take it snowden wasn't the only guy popping around on internal NSA machines and they saw him coming

asciilifeform observes that 6y after snowdenism, ru still runs on winblowz, the mythical 'elbrus' still ~unobtainable (and likely the demo units run poettering-linux) , etc

asciilifeform: really the only reason ru has any working weapons systems at all is that they were all designed in '70s-'80s sovok and run on 4uM 'k1801' ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2019-02-14 23:52 asciilifeform: in ru there are some decent microscopists ( not the 1 phf went to, but apparently others. ) for instance, very recently found that К1801 ( sovok 'pdp-11' single-chip ) was ~not~ in fact a photoclone of dec's (only the early '80s demo ver was!) but , turns out, entirely indigenous orc design, with coupla x ~fewer~ transistors and yet faster max clock

asciilifeform: ( and that none of these hang off the net, elementarily on acct of clock too slow to run even 10M/s nic.. ) ☟︎

asciilifeform: errything which ~does~ hang off the net there, is same familiar shitware as in reich, i presently know of no evidence of an exception existing.

asciilifeform: tbf ~same can be said for usg, where -- similarly -- the only '100% uptime' items are pdp11/microvax/etc where likewise '70s-'80s lsi and likewise no net etc

BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> what i dunget is whythefuq he was in londonistan to begin with << Well the extradition circus should be lulzy. Appears on the surface at least to be alienating some of the Germans.

asciilifeform: re: current-day ru -- despite the 'pr' and the appearance of 'uppitiness', it is still a miamistan. the '90s did not actually end there.

BingoBoingo: Maybe shifting more into a Macau-istan

BingoBoingo: Or whatever the PRC flag flies that draws the vacationers

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: a 'miamistan' in the essence is where the brass occupies self primarily with padding foreign acct , buying villas in reich, setting up their spawn to same, etc

BingoBoingo: I'm just suggesting that the trending reich might be shifting to the other one.

a111: Logged on 2019-04-18 04:25 asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: at this pt i'm not even convinced that there ~is~, or could be, a 'chinese strategy', or 'they want..' -- these folx have not developed a with-what to want , whole edifice reduces to individual party-appointed directors' desire for miami

asciilifeform: the chinese by all appearances are 'greedy algorithm', with no notion of strategy to speak of, nor any detectable ideological spine.

BingoBoingo: The lack of a strategy doesn't keep magic casino place on the coast with odd political status from happening.

BingoBoingo: The Chicoms love gambling like trailer trash loves OD'ing on whatever the drug current decade happens to be

BingoBoingo: ty, fxd

BingoBoingo suspects the one state different systems treatment of Chinese "special administrative regions" is an effect of the anti-strategic Chinese languages. They want resort playground with different rules to play and hedge in, when the leases expired back to them they just sorta let the places happen. ☟︎

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i suspect they are attempts to 'build own miami', in the spirit of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-17#1903015 ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-03-17 15:42 mircea_popescu: matches well that group of "transsexuals" who evidently enough are so preoccupied with cunt, they just want one of their own. about as "transsexual" as the compulsive gambler who buys himself a slot machine for his "den" is "transeconomic",

asciilifeform: ( which makes approx same amt of sense as all other attempts to create 'unwet water', but i have nfi what the psychology is )

BingoBoingo: Prolly not so different from the folks seeing US going to shit that decide to hoard decades of canned foods instead of leaving.

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: iirc these tend to be seriously-advanced cases of christianity of the central nervous system, and fixated on the bit re 'great flood' etc

BingoBoingo: Well, leverage that to the Chinense language in use not allowing for the "Todo bien" "Todo bien" exchange without situation dependent literary references to Confusious[sic].

BingoBoingo: I lack direct experience in this, though I recall reading a few reports that the Confusious cancer was endemic in conversation among the washed.

lobbes: just to give an update: I've been taking the last few weeks to tend to the manor side of things (however, I'm current on logz) ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-03-14 15:43 mircea_popescu: anyway, kinda why the insistence on "republic is political -- you can't just do tech thing" etc. and why dual court-and-manor function of lord. and so on.

lobbes: next up on my conveyor is to publish a vpatch for the auctionbot proper, as right now I've only provided the 'command router' it sits on. I aim to have that out by Sunday the latest

lobbes: After that, I'm going to start working on re-implementing the auto-bidding functionality (which will also be a vpatch) ☟︎

bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909396 << do you mean going [preinstalled gcc6] -> tcc -> gcc2.95 -> gcc4.7 -> gcc4.9 for cuntoo? or drop gcc entirely, try to get as much as possible running on tcc? ☝︎☟︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 13:54 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909254 << nah, not worth doing. the approach is probably to find some other way, tcc or w/e, to replace the gcc step-by-step peeling of layers of filth.

bvt: the problem with these both approaches is that it's impossible to get gnat/ada that way - gnat was bootstrapped from some commercial ada compiler in ~1994, and is self-hosted since that times. (well, impossible by definition with just tcc) ☟︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2019-04-22 16:03 trinque: if somebody finds a way of leaping directly from gcc6 to 4, I'll applaud him, but I'm not burning any more hours of life in there

bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909279 << you can't use adacore's gnat to bootstrap ave1gnat on musltronic systems, but http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-15#1813753 works for that purpose; ☝︎☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-04-22 16:19 trinque: his gcc does not build upon musl, so I have not. prodded him a few times about getting his to run on a musl box.

PeterL: would it be hard to distribute gcc4 instead of gcc6 so that you would not have to build it? why do we have to start with gcc6?

bvt: also, you can't build ave1gnat from scratch on fresh adaless system because of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909529 - so initial gnat binary will be required (ebuilds just download binary gnat for that). ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 19:44 bvt: the problem with these both approaches is that it's impossible to get gnat/ada that way - gnat was bootstrapped from some commercial ada compiler in ~1994, and is self-hosted since that times. (well, impossible by definition with just tcc)

bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909440 << this would involve getting binutils under our control - bigger part of these timestamps are added by ar/ld; tbh i even dunno if gcc is responsible for this at all. ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 14:23 asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: the 'snip out timestamp nonsense from gcc' thing has been itching since '15

bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909490 << speaking of which, http://archive.is/pEMWM ; also, i guess elbrus-2 (~1985) and besm-6 are still running ☝︎☟︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 18:18 asciilifeform: really the only reason ru has any working weapons systems at all is that they were all designed in '70s-'80s sovok and run on 4uM 'k1801'

bvt: PeterL: binary ave1gnat is already hosted by asciilifeform; but it's integration into cuntoo is an open problem that ave1 should be best equipped to handle ☝︎☟︎

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909530 << iirc the orig problem was that the published musl gentoo starter culture trinque began working from, was built on gcc6 , which won't build 4.x (and therefore full replication involves stepping 6 -> 5 -> 4.9 ) ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 19:44 bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909254 << i suspect that fixing direct gcc6->gcc4 step involves something like http://archive.is/cBg9N#selection-9.1340-9.1425

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909541 << the published sores aint especially interesting, aside from archaeological pov ( if you have fpga -- yer product is only as clean as that fpga, and there aint any clean ones gettable ; and if there were, why wouldja want to simulate a pdp11 in it ?? ) ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 19:57 bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909490 << speaking of which, http://archive.is/pEMWM ; also, i guess elbrus-2 (~1985) and besm-6 are still running

asciilifeform: it is only interesting from the pov where e.g. asciilifeform bought small crate of k1801bm2 , and reasonably certain they aint modern fakes ( if i ever end up using'em, i'ma decap 1 at random & see.. )

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909527 << currently i suspect that tcc & similar is a mirage; and that an actual serious solution would moar resemble the bolix approach, where you have a proper lisp and a ~compact~ + readable c-to-lisp ~in~ it for use with legacy crapola while-needed ☝︎☝︎☟︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 19:44 bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909396 << do you mean going [preinstalled gcc6] -> tcc -> gcc2.95 -> gcc4.7 -> gcc4.9 for cuntoo? or drop gcc entirely, try to get as much as possible running on tcc?

a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 14:11 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909401 << whatever else can be said re bolix -- they had the Right Thing pill for this. 'yes you can build a c proggy on this iron; no it won't win you 'speed'.'

asciilifeform: c is a pretty sad lang to write anyffin complicated in, ~especially~ a compiler (and c compiler is no exception)

asciilifeform: to properly shoot the 'primacy of c' in the head, gotta remove the 'it is where the self-hosting happens' 1st and foremost. ☝︎☟︎

asciilifeform: i.e. what you'd want is to 'self-host' (on iron built for the purpose) a lang where a c, ada, etc. compiler is 3000 ln.

asciilifeform: revisiting upstack , the 1801 docs, pretty interesting document from 'techno-political' pov actually -- there does not exist a description like this (operation AND internals) for any reich cpu ever sold. certainly not as a vendor document under 1 cover (not speaking here of ad-hoc reversed tidbits) ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 19:57 bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909490 << speaking of which, http://archive.is/pEMWM ; also, i guess elbrus-2 (~1985) and besm-6 are still running

asciilifeform: ^ and before mp asks, yes it's combo of manual typewriter and ink pen, and no it won't in a million years ocr, other than by meat ( and is largely schematics / waveforms anyway ) ☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: and yes it in fact describes operation (incl. physical params) of the ~internal~ blocks , not only the 'user-facing' pins.

asciilifeform would luvvv to read 'ffa-style' incarnation of such a work, where the chip is 'built up' from empty space in ~hour-long chunks. but prolly this won't exist until asciilifeform writes 1.. ☟︎

asciilifeform: incidentally, even a very brief look at the 1801 item confirms the troof of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896836 -- thing defo aint a 'and here is where the ameri-crystal does x' , it's a quite 'fits-in-head' object , very evidently produced from page-long spec of the orig instruction set ☝︎☟︎

asciilifeform: imho the so-called 'civilized' world ought to have to answer re why it failed to produce a product like this. ☟︎

asciilifeform: vol.2 p.133-151 pretty interesting, describes how the circuit was mapped out (spoiler: by hand) to the actual cmos.

asciilifeform: ( 1 'downer' -- apparently 'cells' drawn by hand, and then arranged by simple proggy , 'gred' -- but its sores not given in the doc )

asciilifeform: concludes by summarizing (with illustration) the actual chem of the fab process.