tmsr - Log 2017-09-13

asciilifeform: incidentally i dun think i've put into the logs why montgomery's modular mult algo is unusable

asciilifeform: reason is that it demands special forms and therefor is not a general-purpose modexp

asciilifeform: specifically demands that the modulus be odd, and that it must be greater than either multiplicand.

asciilifeform: if either condition is false, it will silently shit out garbage.

asciilifeform: ( the thing is widely used in rsatrons which agree to constrain themselves thusly, but is entirely irrelevant in ffa )

asciilifeform: a*b mod m MUST WORK FOR ALL INTEGERS .

asciilifeform: no 'speshul rsa forms' in ffa.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform silver dun tarnish lol, there's such a thing as proper silver. and it has low melting point and easy to work and it doesn't grow fungi.

asciilifeform: it will tarnish when full enough of acidic finger oil.

asciilifeform: certainly not shiny like scalpel, no.

mircea_popescu: i ate off my great-grandfather's set, still clean as the day in 1870 it was made.,

asciilifeform: it would be if stainless

asciilifeform: i was thinking of machining but yes

mircea_popescu: for your actual needs, silver kbd much better than steel, if you're going to go metallic (which, not great idea in first place).

asciilifeform: why not ?

asciilifeform: well thread was re a hypothetical nothing-spared kbd.

asciilifeform: so i'd go for, say, monel.

asciilifeform: dunno if anything'd beat monel.

asciilifeform: ugh ever wore a nickel watchband ?

asciilifeform: nickel is prolly the least biocompatible metal

asciilifeform: no moar than steel 'is' carbon

asciilifeform: monel ( and more recent inconel ) is spiffy unreactive nickel alloy, used in aggressive envir (e.g. molten na reactor tubing)

asciilifeform: lol chrome not zinc

asciilifeform: that's quite ok, make whole thing from it

asciilifeform: good enough for tokamak, good enough for kbd...

mircea_popescu: i'd still take silver myself, if i were doing "metal kbd". not that i would.

asciilifeform currently surrounded by tall pile of -- mostly worthless -- literature re mod mult

asciilifeform: srsly, couplea kg worth by nao

asciilifeform: 95% of the academitards dun even bother with any attempt other than 'how do i montgomery slightly faster'

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: how do you propose to make 200+ identical wooden keys with the proper shape ?

asciilifeform: ( and 'redefine the shape' is not an answer )

asciilifeform: how would you make the meniscus ?

asciilifeform: ewwww

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: so why wood then

asciilifeform: so that it can get stuck in the piston when humidity goes up 5%

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-12#1712731 ☝︎

asciilifeform: yes, that's what a keyboard is

asciilifeform: it dun have to be an actual spring, ftr

asciilifeform: ibm made a magnetically-tensioned kbd at one point

asciilifeform: so long as you get the sproing -- worx

asciilifeform goes 'wtf, THIS crackpottery of mine - you lot find interesting, but the stubborn boojum that keeps 'p' from happening, not interesting somehow '

asciilifeform: and ftr mircea_popescu your algo takes at least N times more cycles than the classical.

asciilifeform: ( does N subtractions , N nullity tests, and when modulus is maxint ( and therefore at all times ) it reduces to the classical's cost )

mircea_popescu: dude get out, every shape can be made out of wood cheaper and faster than ~any other way except for ABS injection.

asciilifeform: let's ask pete_dushenski if there are wooden gears in his rolex

asciilifeform: ironwood would probably work.

mircea_popescu: there are wood painted icons survived fine (ie, no cracks in cunt mary's face) for 1k years.

asciilifeform: to what stress is the picture frame subject ?

asciilifeform: but yes i thought about wooden keys. probably would want a custom milling rig to make'em ( something like a lens maker's lathe )

asciilifeform: though i have nfi how one would do the inlay such that surface is smooth to the touch

asciilifeform: presumably you would inlay 1st then cut the meniscus.

mircea_popescu: and also it's not a matter of " THIS crackpottery of mine - you lot find interesting, but the stubborn boojum". it's a matter of you being more hysterically terrible ad kbd design than at p design.

asciilifeform: i dun actually make keyboards. but did once say 'i'd like a stainless steel kbd' and for some reason the reaction is always 'no have THIS instead'

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because "stainless steel kbd" is an entertainingly stupid notion ; and what's more it's pecularly stupid in the way your stupid works, i can see it relate to the "fuck you guise, ima live on a boat" and so on. spherical cow sorta approach.

asciilifeform: prolly if i desperately wanted custom keys, i'd laser the letters and then cast into acrylic.

mircea_popescu: the people you linked re "here is what dbl injection is" will actually do exactly that for you, also. it's not THAT expensive.

mircea_popescu: superficially it seems like omfg lotta money ; but not so bad. people can afford to make eg icecube trays that retail for 3 bux ie cost a quarter each. how many of those sell ? 10k if you're lucky.

asciilifeform: low-tech , 'cheap & angry'

asciilifeform: and probably last as long as plastic keys.

asciilifeform: yeah 5-10k usd

asciilifeform: there used to be a club where various folx pooled dough and bought.

asciilifeform: ( it is -- unsuprisingly -- mostly tooling cost )

asciilifeform: *unsurprisingly

asciilifeform: recently there was even a d00d who had entire model f made this way, in a run of 1000 or so

asciilifeform: but for some odd reason he made a variant without f-keys, arrows, numpad

asciilifeform: ~unusable

asciilifeform: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com << linked for compleeetness of thread

mircea_popescu: there's even dedicated "investment" stupid money chasing such "ideas". not as many as there were in the 90s, owing to a lot of unfortunate interactions with various "transhuman" tards past 20 years, but still some.

asciilifeform: ( seems to have variant with numpad nao! but STILL no f- )

mircea_popescu: at any rate if you put an order for keys they'll be relieved. "really, not pens for once ?! holy shit this is the most exciting this job ever got"

asciilifeform: the saving grace is that indeed i and everybody else can get by without ideal modelf kbd. but on the other hand i ~do~ need a modmulter.

asciilifeform: one way or another it will have to appear.

mircea_popescu: so in the end what was it, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-12#1713104 or http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-12#1713161 ? cuz i don't expect it can be both dubious and well known at the same time. ☝︎☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-09-12 22:20 asciilifeform: i'ma need to find a proof that this holds for all integers.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm satisfied that it holds, as written. in re knuth, turned out that i was thinking of the 'addition chains' method of mod-exp

asciilifeform: which resembles yours, and doesn't win anything in our case.

mircea_popescu: anyways. i spent some time where the math lives, and i am satisfied that proving some sort of hard relation between fxy=mod(xy) and a polynomial expression of xy is in fact reality-breaking.

asciilifeform: is what i was trying to get across in the beginning

asciilifeform: correct

mircea_popescu: so, want a frog you can kiss into housekeeper&cocksucker all you want, for all the good'll do ye.

asciilifeform: ( incidentally reader might ask 'why not do montgomery? you're doing rsa anyway' and answer is not only 'maybe tomorrow, cramer-shoup and not rsa' but also that we do things such as primality testing , and other non-rsa op )

mircea_popescu: the sadness here is that indeed tmsr-rsa is turning into separate item from p itself.

asciilifeform: i hold that it is not meaningful to attempt to separate'em

mircea_popescu: because optimizations. which may piss you off, but it'll be done anyway ; and the process MUCHLY reminds me of how bitcoin mining degraded irl.

asciilifeform: and that an rsa that is not ptronic is not worth using

asciilifeform: if idjits want to optimize in a way that results in nonfittinginhead, they may as well install winblowz

asciilifeform: and use usg's rsa.

asciilifeform: because there is demonstrably no difference.

asciilifeform: dunno what is complicated about this

asciilifeform: if we gotta compute on fpga, to do rsa sanely -- then fpga it is. 8192-bit regs.

mircea_popescu: the point re why the fuck does everything have to degrate stupidly is what's complicated about this.

asciilifeform: it degrades because folx let it.

asciilifeform: when you stop letting -- it stops.

asciilifeform: even if cost is 1e6 litres of blood.

mircea_popescu: "badly built house walls fall because people let them ; and when the "stop" letting them by starting propping them up, they stop falling"

asciilifeform: not by propping

asciilifeform: by shooting architects.

asciilifeform: propping is how you get walls that dun stay up 5sec when unpropped.

mircea_popescu: i dunno how many people you will have to shoot to keep them from taking your general-purpose p-based rsa and writing a narrower, "works for rsa only" faster program.

asciilifeform: like kochian rsa.

asciilifeform: you solve this by making the sane solution, actually usable.

asciilifeform: it's every bit the fastest when sat on proper iron.

asciilifeform: not directly

mircea_popescu: the sort of culture of the 70s/80s of which "need for speed" franchise is a sad bastardization in the ustardian hot topic sense ?

asciilifeform: the folx who took stock cars, and tore out seats, floor, etc ?

mircea_popescu: ok, quick summary : tech pre-injectors was carburators. engines "optimized for racing" got slowly more complex over time. then injection became feasible, and they simplified. now they've recomplexified again. ☟︎

asciilifeform: it is indeed

asciilifeform: and answer is that obviously idjits will take ANYTHING you make, sane rsa, sane kalash, whatever, and Bolt Shit To The Side

mircea_popescu: but the process is interestring, they kept adding shit to the old engine to "make it better". which it did, at the cost of becoming unmaintainable.

asciilifeform: and result, whatever else it may be, is not sane. in that it no longer ~demonstrably~ behaves as specified.

asciilifeform: it is NOT RSA

asciilifeform: it is usg.rsa.

mircea_popescu: notwithstanding EVERYONE there had the practical, earn equivalent of 5 phds in mech eng.

asciilifeform: this is the typical complexitycollapse, happened to, e.g., ibm pc

asciilifeform: and just about everywhere where folx did not actively push back.

asciilifeform: understand, you gotta ACTIVELY push back

asciilifeform: shoot people for adding complexity. regardless. of. why.

mircea_popescu: sounds a lot like "your house is fine mr p, for as long as you hold on to this here bearing beam"

asciilifeform: it's a pollutant.

asciilifeform: comes from young cocks who want to 'make their mark', most typically

asciilifeform: and did not get properly hammered down

mircea_popescu: technically you're right -- the change fgrom satoshi's prototype mining to today's item comes exactly from "young cocks" trying to get laid.

asciilifeform: it also comes from 'reasonable' people who 'oh hey i can make rsa 1.5x faster if i use weird bases, so what if my code is now 20kline instead of 2k'

asciilifeform: except that : it is no longer the SAME IT

asciilifeform: not demonstrably.

mircea_popescu: point being, until and unless the process is thoroughly and well understood, we'll keep being blindsided by "mining is a bug" bugs.

mircea_popescu: i know i was. ie, it was not directly evident to me that mining as originally designed has this weakness.

asciilifeform: the process is 'must fit in head'. for so long as item fits in head, it is demonstrably solving the stated problem ( which, unsurprisingly, must also fit in head as a statement )

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so how do you redefine "winning the race" ? have the drivers recite the engine parts afterwards, disqualify all errors ?

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the race is a fuzzy thing to begin with, if the cars can be arbitrarily altered

asciilifeform: ( where do they draw the line ? why not rocket engine ? )

asciilifeform: ahahahahalol

asciilifeform: 2+ param optimization is a punishment, not entertainment

asciilifeform: wtf is it, a car design + racing contest

asciilifeform: why not also singing.

asciilifeform: make'em sing

asciilifeform: !#s chess boxing

mircea_popescu: (ftr, what teh lordship usually catcalls as your "Goalpost sliding" is really your most carnal aspect. you sound JUST like a woman when you do it.)

asciilifeform: specifying detail != sliding

asciilifeform: though may seem that way to fuzzy thinkers

asciilifeform: i'd like it not to be lost upstack, so will restate ftr : a 'optimized' rsa that no longer fits in head and is no longer demonstrably-correct , ( and worse yet, no longer operates branch-free ) is NOT RSA and is simply a turd being fraudulently passed off as the genuine article

asciilifeform: though it may in majority of observed cases produce 'correct answer' to the naked eye

asciilifeform: the essential point is that the two are NOT SAME mechanisms

asciilifeform: i can state with confidence that kochiana fits in NO head

asciilifeform: nor ever will, or could

asciilifeform: generally this is not an actual problem, 'but what of different heads'

asciilifeform: a proper fits-in-head item fits in the literate man's head.

asciilifeform: a tub of liquishit -- fits in none.

asciilifeform: no such thing is contemplated

mircea_popescu: so then if joe claims the "Streamlined" rsa fits in his head, what do you do ?

asciilifeform: if he ain't in l1, ignore, for starters.

asciilifeform: ask for proof of correctness.

asciilifeform: which incidentally i am ready and willing to produce for every single piece of ffa to date.

mircea_popescu: which fits in SOME heads, liek galois' in 1800s or the fermat thing recently.

asciilifeform: this is actually the situation with, e.g., fft mult

asciilifeform: which is why we ain't using it.

asciilifeform: arguably the jury's still out on what constitutes 'every literate man's head' capacity

asciilifeform: but my aim is to write an rsa such that, yes, no one can be considered numerate if it does not fit in his head.

asciilifeform: nuffin in there is any moar weighty than long division.

asciilifeform: which until recently was hammered into every kid

asciilifeform: incidentally this is why i oppose ellipticcurveism

asciilifeform: it does not fit in my head, and i am not convinced that the folx who claim that it fits into theirs, ain't lying

asciilifeform: and moreover i can never be convinced that they ain't lying TO ME

asciilifeform: ( unless and until i were to hammer it into MY head such that it wholly fits )

asciilifeform: incidentally in case it weren't obvious, much bloatier rsatrons than the one contemplated in ffa, fit in asciilifeform's head -- e.g. montgomery mult, barrett, various war crimes in that vein

asciilifeform: but i specifically refuse'em because NOT ORTHOGONAL, they don't belong as part of a general-purpose numbertheoretical minimal 'crypto lego set'.

BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> run of the mill pantsuit idiocy, but then suddenly "Es que en Rumanía todos se llaman Mircea Popescu. ¿Sabes?" << LOLOLOLOL

BingoBoingo: * asciilifeform goes 'wtf, THIS crackpottery of mine - you lot find interesting, but the stubborn boojum that keeps 'p' from happening, not interesting somehow ' << Everyone has strong opinions on materials

BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> superficially it seems like omfg lotta money ; but not so bad. people can afford to make eg icecube trays that retail for 3 bux ie cost a quarter each. how many of those sell ? 10k if you're lucky. << /me read as "lotto money"

asciilifeform: sov lotto

asciilifeform: ( max prize was, typically, ~car )

BingoBoingo: AHA, until late 1990's that was US gameshow maximum prize! Then inflation ☟︎

deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2017/09/12/apple-do-you-care/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - “Apple, do you care?”

phf: i think tmsr keyboard should be made with traditional fortepiano technology, ebony keys with ivory letter inlays, maple casing, etc. ☟︎

asciilifeform: 'Your face is now your password. Face ID is a secure new way to unlock, authenticate, and pay.'

asciilifeform: lol, just when i thought that crapple might have hit retardation rockbottom...

asciilifeform: 'The TrueDepth camera analyzes more than 50 different muscle movements to mirror your expressions in 12 Animoji. Reveal your inner panda, pig, or robot.'

deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/BF3562F1A4B6C4581EC3633162E02492667D4C66178258073D7E3AE232DD0D3C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1706...5337 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '79.174.64.63 (ssh-rsa key from 79.174.64.63 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (2377.ovz-ssd6.hc.ru. RU)

deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/BF3562F1A4B6C4581EC3633162E02492667D4C66178258073D7E3AE232DD0D3C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1374...8923 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '79.174.64.63 (ssh-rsa key from 79.174.64.63 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (2377.ovz-ssd6.hc.ru. RU)

asciilifeform: ^ http://ulady.ru << exactly what it looks like ☟︎

asciilifeform: 'how to propose' 'how to delay or hasten menses' ... 'exercises for bigger tits' 'how to please a man' ...

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-13#1713470 << ~organ~ tech, phf, organ. 88 keyz ain't a comp kbd. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-09-13 09:43 phf: i think tmsr keyboard should be made with traditional fortepiano technology, ebony keys with ivory letter inlays, maple casing, etc.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-13#1713468 << i'm still waiting for the brezhnev-yeltsin state-of-the-art to come back -- guard with tranquilizer gun, 'oh she felt unwell' ☝︎☟︎

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/xFSpv << '...statue of Thomas Jefferson in black Tuesday night during a rally criticizing the university’s response to recent white nationalist demonstrations...' etc lulz >> qntra fodder ?

asciilifeform: 'They covered the statue of the university’s founder, and signs reading “racist” and “rapist” were placed on it.'

trinque: such racism, to assume that sally hemings couldn't possibly have *liked* jefferson. ☟︎

BingoBoingo: shinohai: Well, for the real deal on tht you have to go to the ever trendy open air "produce market" http://soulardmarketstl.com/

asciilifeform: !!up apeloyee

asciilifeform: apeloyee: anything that beats multiply-then-divide is an improvement, so long as it meets the basic demands ( constant time, constant space, NO branches that depend on input bits, no use of approximations, no massively heavy - 100 loc is a good approx max - code ) ☟︎

asciilifeform: i.e. 0 * 0 mod 0 must result in the execution of exactly the same sequence of cpu cycles, as maxwidthint * maxwidthint mod maxwidthint .

asciilifeform: likewise it also demands that there be NO table lookups

asciilifeform: and no precomputations.

asciilifeform: and no special requirements for operands ( e.g. montgomery or barrett reduction are out. )

asciilifeform: this means that yes it has to work on , e.g., even moduli. or moduli that are substantially larger, or smaller, than either or both of the multiplicands.

asciilifeform: ( modulus and both multiplicands have same bit width, and if you read the rest of ffa as has been posted here, you will know that NO such thing as normalization ever takes place, or will ever take place, all operands are assumed to be N-bit )

asciilifeform: anyway i think that sums it up, apeloyee

asciilifeform: ( i can already hear mircea_popescu going 'hahah, mod 0' )

asciilifeform: trinque: currently my angle is, to try and make constantspacetime recursive divide&conquer division

asciilifeform: ( instead of the constantspacetimeized knuth division currently in there )

asciilifeform: probably the only actual optimization possible.

apeloyee: what woud be wrong with barrett reduction if you calculate a sufficiently precise reciprocal of modulus N,i.e. (maxint+1)^2/N?

asciilifeform: several things.

asciilifeform: apeloyee: for instance, how do you propose to carry out the corrector/verifier without using conditionals ?

asciilifeform: understand, the program may NOT include 'if' or any equivalent.

asciilifeform: knuth division 'restorer' fires either once or not at all

asciilifeform: so it's one mux

asciilifeform: so how many mux ops would you give for barrett ?

asciilifeform: and prove that it works.

asciilifeform: other thing, apeloyee , is that if ffa does NOT operate on mixed bitnesses. i.e. if your operands are B bits, and you introduced an intermediate of some kind that is 2B bitness, now ALL of your computations with that must be 2B wide (incl. comparisons, nullity checks.)

asciilifeform: this is why it was so tricky to implement karatsuba.

asciilifeform: no ffa basic op will accept operands of unequal bitnesses.

asciilifeform: this is intentional and isn't going to change.

asciilifeform: !!up apeloyee

asciilifeform: now this isn't even all. how the fuck do you intend to calculate the reciprocal WITHOUT DOING THE SAME DIVISION I'M DOING NOW

asciilifeform: except in 2x the bitness.

asciilifeform: ( which costs 4x as much. and then all the garbage that follows .)

asciilifeform: is it not getting through that once you introduce a 2B-bit item, you are working in ffa of 2B bitness ?

asciilifeform: the only reason we are able to avoid this in karatsubamulter, is that the 2B is ~never~ treated as one number except on output, it is dealt with in parts

asciilifeform: if you made the double-wide reciprocal ( i will leave aside the question of how to do this in provable constant time and provable correctness ) you're stuck using that width.

asciilifeform: for the rest of the barrett algo.

asciilifeform: and incidentally barrett , as iirc i mentioned in yesterday's thread, requires that a*b < n^2.

asciilifeform: this is not compatible with my demand of a fully general modular mult op.

asciilifeform: so this really makes the question of whether barrett could, in principle, be made in constant spacetime, academic.

asciilifeform: ffa modular mult MUST produce correct answer for ALL possible inputs a,b,n.

asciilifeform: ( n will not be 0, but aside from this all possible bitstrings are legal. )

asciilifeform: and none may result in any deviation from fixed spacetime ( so no 'use barrett if we can, use montgomery if we can...' etc. NO IFs. )

apeloyee: standard barrett requires a*b<n^2, yes. hence I specified the double-precision reciprocal.

asciilifeform: no i get it

asciilifeform: apeloyee: if you want to write out the full algo, i'll read

asciilifeform: ( put in wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com or elsewhere )

asciilifeform: ideallly. i don't have a fixedtime reciprocal finder. ☟︎

asciilifeform: and it doesn't afaik exist anywhere to crib.

asciilifeform: currently it seems to me that the reciprocal step ~alone~ will cost more than my knuthdivision residue finder in its entirety.

asciilifeform: this is why barrett is only used in the field when the modulus stays constant.

asciilifeform: ohai mircea_popescu

asciilifeform: apeloyee: out of curiosity, who might you be ? log lurker ?

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-13#1713462 << i suspect back before the "end of the world" people had a firm dislike for "life changing prizes". because hadn't experienced disruption in the proper sense ; and understood the lottery winner problems. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-09-13 03:48 BingoBoingo: AHA, until late 1990's that was US gameshow maximum prize! Then inflation

asciilifeform: !!up apeloyee

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well, after the millionaire show and a few other mega jackpots the game shows transitioned to "reality tv" which at first had prizes and then simply came with attention and opportunity to make own fortune or peril

asciilifeform: apeloyee: consider registering with deedbot, you can voice then.

mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo sorta how porn transitioned from finding teenagers looking to explore the world to producing vanity tapes so rando hookers can pretend to be "pornstars" for an extra 10 bucks in the vip room.

mircea_popescu: more like where the epic failure of management to manage the business leaves it stranded.

asciilifeform: !!rate apeloyee 1 barrett reductionist

asciilifeform: !!v 4E12C2B974FD1B07418EF6117A72E7D4A631876859A009A4756568B2B246F511

BingoBoingo: Failure to manage is exactly how the fortunes bestowed to select members of the urban underpriviledged get captured by Amway and other MLM scams. It's also the story of Bitcoin history from Obsi through Gigavps through labcoin to Ether huffing. Money naturally attracts old women who want it to turn into a Walmart, but a "nicer" one than the neighbors have.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-13#1713471 << and be part of an actual car (submarine-hellicopter) with the generator in the trunk and the bitchez sunning themselves on teh roof ? ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2017-09-13 09:43 phf: it will also come with proper pedals, like ascii always wanted

BingoBoingo: And the "nicer" Walmart always gets beat by the better at spreadsheets in space walmart as old women get their 3 status items of not being poor from the faddy not-Walmart and race the rest of their money to the bottom walmart

mircea_popescu: speaking of which, i kinda always wondered why exactly the SUV craze stopped. i mean, once you give up on sense, there's no way to land, is there ? they could have made a DOUBLE SIZED "car", that takes up two lanes, and could carry that much more injected plastic on the frame. ☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu had an article re why stopped

asciilifeform: the one with 'and then they decided, the roads will not be maintained'

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It transformed into "Crossover" craze. iirc pete_dushenski has a blog on this. ☟︎

BingoBoingo: Crossover being a tall station wagon like peak hype cashgrab SUV, except pretense of leaving road abandoned.

BingoBoingo: Well, not usually station wagons so much as hatchbacks like Ye olde economy cars

jhvh1: BingoBoingo: 2017 Ford ® Edge SUV |2.7L Ecoboost® - The Most Powerful Gas ...: <https://www.ford.com/suvs-crossovers/edge/2017/>; 2017 Ford Edge - Build & Price: <http://shop.ford.com/build/edge/>; Ford Edge Prices, Reviews and Pictures | U.S. News & World Report: <https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/ford/edge>

mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i watched last night "fun with dick and jane", which is a fine throwaway. other than tea leoni making a way the fuck better applegate/bancroft/whatever (these typically ustardian huswife of businessman roles, where businessman is one of those schmucks doing nothing, "vp of ziggler-engels" sorta thyings). but the interestinfg part is : the guy gets a promotion. the signalling signs of this promotion are, that they

mircea_popescu: leaving aside how that 98lb woman could NOT have eaten the 18 oz porterhouse she served herself in two days : really doods, to finally afford 10 bucks wortha meat you gotta be promoted to floor 51 ?!

mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you should have seen that thing, it was a proper tenderloin, all of it. which you know, you do if you have a dozen people coming.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform maybe i misunderstand something, but that actually should have been an argument for, not against.

asciilifeform: from buyer's pov it'd be a 'for' yes

asciilifeform: but buyer gets the 4ring binder he is given, not the 77-ring he dreamed of.

mircea_popescu: no, i mean from the following cultural perspective : for as long as road network continues growing, the user wants massive, impressive beast of a steel machine. to show his supremacy over the attendant landscape in proper context (ie, he's affraid of the wilderness roads expand into). once expansion stops, he wants an efficient little thing, to get it over the next guy (ie, he's affraid of neighbour). and once road network st

mircea_popescu: arts actually getting kicked back, jungle taking over, he wants a MEGA INSANE DYSFUNCTIONAL ITEM (ie, he is now affraid of sense -- because all thatr sense has to say to him is "you're fucked|" )

asciilifeform: that last one only worx in era of infinite cheap petrol

asciilifeform: evidently lizard gosplan doesn't expect infinite continuation of this

asciilifeform: or bush-era 'hummer' would still be sold.

asciilifeform: long ago

asciilifeform: and 'what kind of auto is sold' is eminently, unabashedly controlled by usg gosplan

asciilifeform: ( as seen in the wv idiocy )

asciilifeform: pagin BingoBoingo ... what do they do ? ( 'tesla' ?! )

mircea_popescu: ahahaha no fucking way, lumea s-a schimbat, hipster rapper driving lawnmower ?

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Last I checked they did euro supercars and bespoke super suvs.

BingoBoingo: Everyone else drives crossovers because they suppose it lives in exact middle

asciilifeform: jagdtiger

BingoBoingo: Alfa Romeo returned to States recently and is marketing itself being Italian as meaning alt-ferarri

mircea_popescu: (maybach was an old luxury brand bought by mercedes ; maserati idem, early 1900s brand, bought by fiat ; spun off with alpha romeo and abarth recently cuz who wants a fiat)

BingoBoingo: Well fiat by buying Chrylser seems to have went "we were fascist too, just as better as Daimler Benz" Which previously owned chysler when chrysler was Mitsubishi

BingoBoingo: Was Daimler Chrysler with US products being "Diamond Star Motors" or whatever the fuck mitsubishis

BingoBoingo: With Mitsubishi itself being the only Japanese automaker in US whose name is anti-associated with reliability

mircea_popescu: the demographic slices lulz are best enjoyed by the traveller btw. in argentina, they ACTUALLY ADVERTISE "french technology" in automotive industry.

BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> pagin BingoBoingo ... what do they do ? ( 'tesla' ?! ) << Fuck they all drive Dodges!

BingoBoingo: Also doing the thing where they sell the public big numbers of horsepower or at least appearance thereof

BingoBoingo: Yeah, it didn't take. through Mitsubishi years they did economy thing with lonely Viper and Neon SRT-4 being only power offerings that weren't trucks

asciilifeform: when usa physical reality finally converges to the economic reality, i'd expect revival of the motorcycle. but for some reason not happened yet

asciilifeform: aha with sidecar

asciilifeform: i have a neighbour who has, i shit thee not, a 'ural'

BingoBoingo: Dodge/Ford/Chevy are all sorta competing on pwoer angle. Except Ford/Chevy also are keeping some economy options.

asciilifeform: imported from ru.

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: where i live one still sees these ~exclusively in the warm months, driven by hobbyists -- rather than commuters who can't afford petrol for a 4cyl

BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> when usa physical reality finally converges to the economic reality, i'd expect revival of the motorcycle. but for some reason not happened yet << This summer there's been more of them locally than in recent history. Much of the US though has winter...

BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo the bmw r75 will do ice. << Still requires skill

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there were some zundapps still on the road when asciilifeform was a boy, in orcistan

asciilifeform: probably same in mircea_popesculandia

asciilifeform: ftr ural sidewheel is driven also ( more or less exact copy )

asciilifeform: at one time i thought 'hm would be nifty to get an ural' but then noticed that d00d has the pistons laid out on a towel in his front yard, more often that i ever hear or see the machine actually go

asciilifeform: i've yet to meet anybody who disassembles engine just for the hell of it

asciilifeform: but whoknows

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-13#1713479 << Изнеженное дворянство еще не раз будет возвращать в обиход декольте. looks like liberal reuse of old fishwrapper clippings ? ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-09-13 14:34 asciilifeform: ^ http://ulady.ru << exactly what it looks like

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: whole thing is more or less the customary english clickfarm, but with order of magnitude less pantsuit (e.g. instead of clitler pieces, 'magnify yer tits' etc )

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-13#1713483 << iirc pantsuited hilarity did feel such unwell at some point. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-09-13 15:43 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-13#1713468 << i'm still waiting for the brezhnev-yeltsin state-of-the-art to come back -- guard with tranquilizer gun, 'oh she felt unwell'

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well yes, because the free strings they can get hands on were written in 1980 by gosplan as quoted, rather than in 2000 by perianne boring aspie

asciilifeform: and visible even to my untrained eye.

mircea_popescu: filter feeders will be you know, filters. kinda why so popular semiology sources in marine biology.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-13#1713488 << rather, could have possibly liked BEING MANHANDLED by jefferson ~or whatever other white boy was willing~. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-09-13 17:00 trinque: such racism, to assume that sally hemings couldn't possibly have *liked* jefferson.

mircea_popescu: all the dogs i ever met were thrilled to be scratched behind ears whenever and whichever way you felt like, the warm glow of "omfg, i am being handled BY HUMAN!!!" visibly overpowering all "thoughts" such as they had in their dog brain.

mircea_popescu: the proposition that there existed black woman in the time discussed who didn't similarily bask in "omfg, WHITE MAN!!! is scratching me between the legs" is out and out ridiculous anachronism.

mircea_popescu: what exactly am i asked to believe, that woman whose name only exists because she was bought by jefferson family somehow had other priorities ? like what, sexual congress with the black males ? odds are she'd have rather fucked a donkey.

mircea_popescu: heck, they don't wanna fuck them as it is, TODAY! look through the dating sites, two thirds of black female profiles indicate "no black males" in some manner (such as, "no gangstas" or whatever)

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not only fucked jefferson, but slept in his bed, did his paperwork.

asciilifeform: j was by some accounts an introverted d00d, did not much get along with chix, after his wife died decided to solve problem 'the sexbot way'

mircea_popescu: and if they had been jewish, all her older female relatives would have gotten misty in the cobweb, "omfg he's a DOCTOR!!!"

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is a lot more common than realised, on account of accomplished adult male not having patience for the older female only mode of life (the claque).

BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> j was by some accounts an introverted d00d, did not much get along with chix, after his wife died decided to solve problem 'the sexbot way' << Not 'sexbot way', in the way his time and place handled much beloved mistress; such status is indicated by liberation as opposed to re-sale of the resultant octaroon children at their coming of age (as opposed to Jefferson's death).

mircea_popescu: the particular woman in question was yes, domestic slavegirl, it's a thing, it works well.

asciilifeform: worked a-ok for him

mircea_popescu: the pretention that "they have other things to do" a flimsy wrapper over the obvious "you've nobody that'd take you in"

trinque: but no, I'm sure she'd have rather blacklivesmattered loudly somewhere dressed in walmart rags

mircea_popescu: jefferson was, in truth, a bit of a lulzfest after his unseating. somewhat of an early us ron paul / jirinowski etc.

mircea_popescu: but if it's not fucking obvious that in 1800 agrarianism is another word for nonsense...

asciilifeform: at least had the sense to mostly withdraw from public life

asciilifeform: into woodworking or what was it.

BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> nonsensical-populist. << And not Pantsuit took over the party he founded

mircea_popescu: come to think of it, the arrangement where the woman is a slave (like every sultan's consort up to roxana) and her offspring ARE SLAVES TOO until such a time father thinks otherwise (which yes, can be coming of age, if ever) is probably best way to do it.

mircea_popescu: way the fuck cheaper socially than my stricter "i will only have children in a society where i get to decide if they live or die" ☟︎

mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo well, us "parties" history is funny in that having no proper substance of their own (let alone ideology, bridge too far) they keep osciallting throiugh the same zero both. it's like centennial switcharoo game.

BingoBoingo: So long as Trump can pull GOP to electoral sweet spot of a little economically liberal and a lotta socially conservative

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-13#1713729 << this is not even a correct statement. more properly "i will desist killing all my offspring before gestation completes if and only if my sovereign right to kill them at any time is socially recognized". ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2017-09-13 19:21 mircea_popescu: way the fuck cheaper socially than my stricter "i will only have children in a society where i get to decide if they live or die"

mircea_popescu: anyway, since nobody apparently got the faberge egg bait, let's put it in the logs. so yes on the substance front i asked alf if he knows what it is because it is in fact stained glass, except with gold instead of lead and porcelain instead of glass, ie just like his properly cast key, piston-and-typeface in metal, bulk in porcelain.

mircea_popescu: but on the significance front i asked because the principal preoccupation of the russian tsar afrter the french went stupid was to rescue as much of the old world industry stack as possible, which is how jhe ended up with swiss, austrian, french etc manufacturers.

mircea_popescu: that "trademark" is now owned by unilever, as you might've guessed, and it's used to sell items in qatar, as you might've also guessed. the point being that the poor rich arabs are trying to salvage whatever's left of the tsar's pile of salvaged material, today. ☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform had nfi

mircea_popescu: and no, none of the "three for five bux, plastic injected and happy face" is in any way competition (or god help us replacement!) for what's here discussed.

asciilifeform: i thought those were late 19th c tech tho

mircea_popescu: entirely orthogonal tech stacks ; and wouldn't you know it that the simple man's reaction to perceptible orthogonality is to pick one and pretend the rest dun exist.

asciilifeform: the eggs

mircea_popescu: before europe went stupid, and blacklivesmatter all over itself, there was a major concern with making mechanical life.

asciilifeform: made in 1880s, neh

mircea_popescu: hence all the clock towers with figurines, and about 50% of german lands gdp.

asciilifeform: i recall the automata, von kempelen et al

mircea_popescu: dood could have been a general discussing importantly female transsexuals in the french expeditionary force

mircea_popescu: but the preoccupations of the culture at the time were such that INSTEAD he "of his own" "preferred" to solve some important geometry problemsa

asciilifeform: incidentally afaik von kempelen's mechanical voicebox was never replicated even to this day

asciilifeform: ( we had the thread, possibly )

mircea_popescu: so : the faberge egg, the original, was made in 1885 ; but it was the continuation and in a sense the crowing of a current of thought (ie, culture) and proper civilisation that reached back over a centry. ☟︎☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: i can picture it. and specifically what mircea_popescu meant, re 'craftsmanship' tech as opposed to industrial/scalables

mircea_popescu: but the point remains that the high performance lathe was invented FOR THIS not for that!

mircea_popescu: and laplace existed BECAUSE OF THIS not because "i fucking love science" and "you like nerds, fuck one" ie "we want to get more science".

mircea_popescu: and broadly speaking -- that without THIS neither laplace nor the lathe are happening, period and full stop.

asciilifeform: lathe driven moar by musketry than by fine art tho ☟︎

mircea_popescu: more importantly -- that the chinese DID takle over "industry", as well they should ; but that survival and prosperity depends on THIS. let them have THAT industry, it's actually a great fit for them.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's two kinds of people -- and only one of them comes back from the war to complain about the boots.

asciilifeform: did we ever do the chronometer thing ? a bit like that there egg, likewise craftsman 'unindustrial' product, and made the british navy briefly +ev

mircea_popescu: (and to round off the above : consider that the first metallic aluminum was shaped into a box and offered to the same person as the ironclad drawings were offered. whyssat ? cuz that's how all science flew back when people could control it.)

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: funnily enough there is a monument to this aluminum right here . washington obelisk has a top, 'priceless' pyramid of al

asciilifeform: made at the time when the royal aluminum spoon gift etc.

asciilifeform wonders if some modern monarch ever was given an aerogel spoon

mircea_popescu: "your higheness, have your favourite slave fuck herself in the ass with it!"

mircea_popescu would be genuinely curious if this could be done. on one hand trained girl can do wonders with ass, on other hand that thing is fragile as all fuck...

asciilifeform: could be done

asciilifeform: and not only could be, but could be attached to the end of a red hot poker , and subject would feel no heat

asciilifeform half-expected mircea_popescu to say that he already had owned aerogel dildo.

asciilifeform: famous pic

asciilifeform: i recall seeing it in print, even

asciilifeform: iirc early 1990s ( pre-pantsuitization ) sci-am mag.

asciilifeform: naah loong ago

asciilifeform: aerogel'd make a spiffy pedestal for sram pc...

asciilifeform has a coffin notebook little list of items that nobody knows how to produce industrially, and so never expects to touch with own hands

asciilifeform: it's really half the attraction of having own decent lab setup

asciilifeform: some folx make holographs today, in their cellars, it is i suspect the same attraction. rather like colour film in 1930s ☟︎

asciilifeform: 'want it? gotta do it yerself, corner store won't even dream of it'

asciilifeform: ( personal comp in 1970s. etc )

asciilifeform: there is imho a marked difference tho b/w 'nobody mass produces this' and 'nobody knows how'

asciilifeform: ( possible example of the former -- http://btcbase.org/log/2015-01-18#982523 ; of the latter -- aerogels ) ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2015-01-18 21:18 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: head-worn displays are considered, by usg, to be key military tech (all existing manufacturers of serious - i.e. svga and above units - supply usg exclusively)

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you realise thermic isolation is a time function, yes ? eventually all parts of assemblage do end up in thermic equilibrium, there's no pill for this. insulation just makes it take longer is all.

mircea_popescu waves at phf. check it out, we can wreck your logs for multiple days in a row!

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-13#1713497 << man your answers are terrible! what happened to "yes, our current item is O n^3 log n ?" or "no, our current item is n log n" ? ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2017-09-13 17:17 asciilifeform: apeloyee: anything that beats multiply-then-divide is an improvement, so long as it meets the basic demands ( constant time, constant space, NO branches that depend on input bits, no use of approximations, no massively heavy - 100 loc is a good approx max - code )

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i know that aerogel ain't a maxwell's demon, lol

asciilifeform: but makes a pretty spiffy frying pan handle.

asciilifeform: trooo

asciilifeform: was thinking of the 'omfg it floats in mid air' rather than thermal aspect, there.

mircea_popescu: now, good insulation DOES model the flow of heat, ie the hotter outer part will cool more before it touches your sram, so not entirely useless.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-13#1713808 << i did assume that d00d read the current coad ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-09-13 20:15 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-13#1713497 << man your answers are terrible! what happened to "yes, our current item is O n^3 log n ?" or "no, our current item is n log n" ?

asciilifeform: ( typically it is the silent lurkers who read every line of it, oddlyenough )

asciilifeform: as of my last reckoning O(n^3 log n)

asciilifeform: but i still gotta massage the divider

asciilifeform: right now it is 'egyptian' (knuthian) and goes bitwise

asciilifeform: it oughta go wordwise.

asciilifeform: other observation , gleaned from mircea_popescu and then from knuth -- can modularly ~add~ inside karatsubatron

asciilifeform: and this works out

asciilifeform: ( precisely how to do this, i have not yet determined )

mircea_popescu: oh btw, should prolly formalize the function/mechanism thing from yest a bit. so, a function (in the correct, math understanding, a "procedure" in cs lingo is no different, which is why lisp hasn't "procedures") denotes correct results, but does not connote any particular method of obtaining them. this is no good for us, in many military applications, where we must actually specify not merely WHAT is being sought, but also HO

mircea_popescu: W, precisely, it is to be obtained. this is why the concept of "function" as heretofore used is not useful in republican computing, and we must introduce a new item.

mircea_popescu: this new item is to my eyes fundamental pillar of "fit in head", because a thoroughly well understood mechanism can then be relegated to background and built upon.

asciilifeform: what's wrong with 'circuit' ?

asciilifeform: that's what it resolves to.

asciilifeform: show the gates.

mircea_popescu: there's some common language overload that seems to make "mechanism" preferable, but it's slight and who cares.

asciilifeform: it reflects the reality of what a 'constantspacetime program' really is.

asciilifeform: and why almost the entirety of the ~useful~ reading material asciilifeform collected, was from iron makers

asciilifeform: outside of perhaps ballooning, continuously-variably-voluminous entities are rare in engineering

asciilifeform: maker of cpu will almost unavoidably take an interest in 'ffa-style' arithmetizing.

mircea_popescu: well, it's the core of the combustion engine, innit ? continuously-variably-voluminous.

asciilifeform: not whole engine, lol

asciilifeform: the way the comba multer works

asciilifeform: notice that it doesn't walk the bits

asciilifeform: ( the egyptian multer, now gone -- did walk the bits, and was directly analogous to the knuthian divider )

asciilifeform: 349087340, 753059056

asciilifeform: ( shave'em if you like )

asciilifeform: believe or not there are several known subquadratic division algos

asciilifeform: one by jebelean, 'Exact Division with Karatsuba Complexity' , possibly ffaizable.

asciilifeform: ( if it can be turned into div with remainder... )

mircea_popescu: 1. we notice that 349087340 being 1 0100 1100 1110 1010 0110 0110 1100 is 29 bits long. we further notice that 3059056 being 10 1110 1010 1101 0111 0000 is 22 bits long.

mircea_popescu: 2. we select the first 22 bits of the dividend, to wit 1 0100 1100 1110 1010 0110 0 and we compare the divisor to it. as the divisor is larger, we add one further bit, obtaining 1 0100 1100 1110 1010 0110 01.

mircea_popescu: 3. we substract the divisor from this fragment of the divident, obtaning 1 0100 1100 1110 1010 0110 01 - 10 1110 1010 1101 0111 0000 = 10 0100 1000 1101 0010 1001 (aka 2395433).

mircea_popescu: we continue comparing the divisor, adding bits from the divident's tail and substracting the divident until we run out of digits, at which time we have the remainder. every time we substract we mark down an 1, every time we add digits from the divident's tail we mark down a 0.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you just described our existing divtron aha

asciilifeform: the fact that it advances a bit at a time ?

asciilifeform: i.e. shifts by 1

asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/oVOak/?raw=true << yest's paste for ref

asciilifeform: for i in 1 .. Dividend'Length * Bitness loop ...

mircea_popescu: and since i've this piled in here : to ~multiply~ 349087340 by 3059056 : you create a list 22 items long, that is 29 + 22 bits wide, and you proceed writing down 1 0100 1100 1110 1010 0110 0110 1100 in it bit-shifted 22 times, nulled on occasion. then you add these terms. right ?

asciilifeform: that was how my first ffa multer worked

asciilifeform: 'egyptian algo'

asciilifeform: it was about 100x slower than comba ( current basecase ) and ~150x slower than karatsuba+comba ( currently what we use )

asciilifeform: not really

asciilifeform: it flows from the fact that we walked 1 bit, rather than ( on my box ) 64 at a time

asciilifeform: for every single subop

asciilifeform: i threw out egyptian multer very reluctantly, it was so short an' sweet

asciilifeform: it's what yer cpu still does internally.

asciilifeform: ( simplest possible mul )

mircea_popescu: very evidently what it does. at least to the sort of people who learned how to write in longhand and do square roots by hand

asciilifeform: it's how i learned'em

asciilifeform: the magic of arithmetizing by hand.

mircea_popescu: da fuck is wrong with people these days, i do not know, but i do recall as early teens, 12 yo or so, there was this very exciting moment in school when they imported AN AMERICAN!!! to do some english classes. this was you know, wild wild stuff at the time.

mircea_popescu: and he proceeded to blockprint. which was about as shocking as if he had taken off pants in class.

mircea_popescu: because srslty now who the fuck block prints if they ever went to school..

asciilifeform: ( it is worth remembering that ffa is not built to be a museum piece, 'shortest physically possible rsa', but grudgingly made concessions liek abandoning egyptian mul -- so long as result is still fixedspacetime -- , so that it can actually be fired in anger . )

mircea_popescu: (it didn't help that it was in the torah of the time, as per saint habarnam gospels, "only blockprinted")

asciilifeform: believe or not, asciilifeform never learned proper latin penmanship.

asciilifeform: it was ~eliminated in the schools shortly before he landed in usa .

jhvh1: mircea_popescu: (translate <source language> [to] <target language> <text>) -- Returns <text> translated from <source language> into <target language>.

asciilifeform: i dun think anybody ever translated'im

asciilifeform: or hm, maybe that brit d00d

asciilifeform: ahahahahalolno

asciilifeform: holy SHIT they translatedit

asciilifeform: ( http://www.arvindguptatoys.com/arvindgupta/mir-nosov-dunno.pdf << yes pdf )

asciilifeform: 'adventures of dunno and his friends'

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform imo it's very fucking stupid to show kids how to do plain division by hand, but then NOT also show them how to do square roots. it fucks up the whole purpose ofd the whole thing, paring down a tree branch to a single item.

mircea_popescu: you can not mark them for the latter, i guess, but the point must be made that no, NOTHING EVER STOPS.

asciilifeform: aha it's the thing described in mircea_popescu's 'and then newton sat down to write 3 laws...' article

asciilifeform pictures rsa sliderule...

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's a pity all the cancerous fags passing for comedians in pantsuit circles are crowding out the real talent which might be writing exceptional xharms pieces on the basis of current idiocy.

asciilifeform: ahahahaha

asciilifeform: herringess!111

asciilifeform: aha but she's a chix

asciilifeform: the apotheosis of neznaika series was 'neznaika on the moon', which 'for adults' described moar or less exactly 1990s ruprivatizationlulz

asciilifeform: there is a legend that yeltsin swore on a copy instead of bible

mircea_popescu: afaik "fuchsia herring" never gained coinage in ru, but honestly it's a much better name for "black chicks code" than "black chicks code" ☟︎

mircea_popescu: (no, the present socialism isn't the first to run headfirst into the female brick wall. who could have predictered!)

asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform got a leather-bound 'незнайка на луне' nearly 2wks before the plane , and was in for quite a treat, pictured was stereotypical 'capitalist hell' usa )

asciilifeform: notyet

mircea_popescu: also lulzy, in simiular vein, though i wouldn't for a moment call it "capitalist hell". it is pure and simple collapse among the symbols, as typified in teh elevator scene.

mircea_popescu: ie, there's nothing capitalist about it whatsoever ; capitalism does order the disordered symbols in similar manner as longhand does, as an act of civilisation and a point of manifest superiority pointedly absent from the work (or generally ustardian mentality today)

phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-13#1713586 << i'm pretty sure that's even in logs: we've concluded that ideal ascii item is a moog like thing, installed on a Nautilus ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-09-13 18:31 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-13#1713471 << and be part of an actual car (submarine-hellicopter) with the generator in the trunk and the bitchez sunning themselves on teh roof ?

mircea_popescu: yes, but putting that in the log is like putting the goop in the woman. so much fun to do you keep doing it.

asciilifeform: oh hey speaking of lost technology, my noritake itron is here

mircea_popescu: phf you know, for all the foibles, 1970s pop icons DID try a sort of very brusque, uninformed and "hi i come from the trailer park" alf-boat. hence cocksucker blues and the large touring busses.

asciilifeform looked for brandnew one for yrs, finally found

asciilifeform: this carries lulz potential

mircea_popescu: this is because of set theoretic considerations whereby increases in the mod parameter increase the pile of possible results, eg mod 2 is 0 or 1

mircea_popescu: the other school of course says mod 0 is an indifferent op, ie 18 mod 0 = 18

mircea_popescu: of course the computronist would think mod 0 is "an op that dun terminate". but in any case, the "divide by x" approach to calculating a mod is just shorthand, not fundamental. mod is defined in terms of substraction (take x and y, substract y from x until remainder sub y), has nothing to do with multiplication side of the number ring.

mircea_popescu: and so in these terms, the question becomes "if you substract nothing from something an infinite number of times, what're you left with ?"

asciilifeform: this is when i point out that div0 gives maxint in ffa ( at least naked ffa, without checking first )

asciilifeform: but this is problematic and div0 is a fatal eggog in p.

asciilifeform: ( there is a legit reason why, but i will leave it as exercise for readers )

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-13#1713551 << i don't think his notion is without merit, incidentally. there may be something there. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-09-13 18:06 asciilifeform: ideallly. i don't have a fixedtime reciprocal finder.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've been laying it out on paper since he posted. any way i cut it, thus far, it costs moar than the classical .

mircea_popescu: that part i believe ; but as to the science rather than the engineering of it.

phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-13#1713800 << one of the appeals of VDNH back in the day was a tucked-in-the-corner collection of Denisyuk holograms. so i went there again, place is almost a shell at this point, BUT one of the buildings was taken over by polytechnical museum, not only did they make a rather nifty science (without quotes!) museum but they also preserved all those old holograms. i suspect i wasn't the only one who loved ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-09-13 20:00 asciilifeform: some folx make holographs today, in their cellars, it is i suspect the same attraction. rather like colour film in 1930s

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, but unlike , say, egyptian mult, barrett doesn't have the appeal of simplicity or obvious correctness.

mircea_popescu: it only has the appeal of the unknown, as in who knows what pie we find turning over this pot.

asciilifeform: it's really closer to fft multer

asciilifeform: ( which is spiffy but imho quite inappropriate in crypto )

asciilifeform: phf: sadly i've never been there

asciilifeform: ( or dunno, maybe would be even sadder today if i had... )

asciilifeform blows dust off 'holo ecdsa cracking' notebook

mircea_popescu: it is in fact (the method described) an application of laser interferometry, which is precisely how you'd do the tower-of-light solver.

phf: asciilifeform: yeah, it was a very niche thing. a sort soviet retro future exhibit that somehow survived through the 90s. i don't quite remember what else was there, plasma globes, various magnet accentuated magnetic liquids, that sort of stuff

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc we had the thread, in '13 even

asciilifeform: !#s knapsack

asciilifeform: somewhere in there.

phf: asciilifeform: unless you meant vdnh, in which case it was "Выставка достижений народного хозяйства

a111: Logged on 2015-02-22 05:59 mircea_popescu: is shamir still working on those light machines ?

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2014-02-20#517930 ☝︎

asciilifeform: 2014.

asciilifeform: !#s twinkle

asciilifeform: 'Бобина, по всей вероятности, от какого-то грузовика. В первые годы Денисюк использовал ее для поджигания ртутной лампы, она выполняла поначалу функции не изобретенного еще лазера. Рядом расположен конденсатор производства SIEMENS и трансфор

asciilifeform: матор, явно трофейные, найденные на какой-нибудь свалке послевоенных лет. Крупное открытие в голографии было сотворено из самых обычных материалов, что свидетельствует об удивительной увлеченности, энтузиазме при полном отсутствии подд

asciilifeform: ержки со стороны руководства. Сборочные и монтажные работы молодой лаборант производил самостоятельно.'

asciilifeform: neato.

asciilifeform: 'the bobbin, in all likelihood, was from some truck. in the early years denisyuk used it for igniting the mercury lamp, it served at first the function of the yet-uninvented laser. nearby is a capacitor by siemens, a transformer, definitely scavenged, found on some post-war scrapyard

asciilifeform: the major breakthrough in holography was made from very common materials, which shows the astonishing dedication, enthusiasm despite a total lack of support from management

asciilifeform: construction and assembly the young lab tech did with his own hands.'

phf: in the 90s the exhibit of denisyuk technology was basically a tiny room, with a handful of original prints and the "holographic device", displayed with a working laser. was a kind of mecca for certain kind of person, mandatory for a visit when you're spending a day in vdnh

asciilifeform did not grow up in moscow, and spent a total of couplea days there, as a kid, never saw this item sadly

asciilifeform: speaking of lost tech, can haz ivory micrograph yet, phf ?

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in english i think called 'flyback'

asciilifeform: i.e. crt gun transformer

asciilifeform: if it's electronic and you can hear it squeal , it's got inductor

asciilifeform: ( recall recent article re how to get gpg privkey out of the squeals. )

phf: asciilifeform: i haven't had a chance to meet with zeptobars guy yet, but will do before the end of my visit

mircea_popescu: phf goes to moscow, is to find ivory micrograph and bdsm club photograph, instead stuck in hotel room reading up on logs

asciilifeform: lol somehow i pictured phf as one of the folx who operates in burst mode, reads log for 8h marathon every 5wks or sumthing

shinohai: Lulzy: "U.S. moves to ban use of Kaspersky software in federal agencies amid concerns of Russian espionage"

asciilifeform: oldnoose shinohai

asciilifeform: shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-18#1700468 ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-08-18 23:01 asciilifeform: 'That followed the General Services Administration removing Kaspersky from an approved-vendors list in early July and a congressional push to pass a law that would ban Kaspersky from being used by the Department of Defense.'

asciilifeform: oh hey did we do yesterday's nsa bluetooth remoteroot burn ?

asciilifeform: ( exactly like the broadcom remoteroot from 6mo ago. except this one is an overflowism IN THE SPEC rather than any particular chip's implementation )

mircea_popescu: heck, in one of the many plaintive items about "omfg you aren;'t going to believe the state of nuke tech", there even was the story of jhow bluetooth is bannable offense.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: subj is re perma-rooting of any bt-supporting item, rather than 'data theft' such as haunts usg

asciilifeform: as in, theoretically - worm over rf

asciilifeform: the one interesting bit is re 'was in the spec'

asciilifeform: and not the least bit particular to 1 or even N vendors.

asciilifeform: phunphakt, ~all recent autos sold , refirmwareable over bt.

hanbot: crowgoat.tumblr.com << my dad caught some frames of a mountain lion right outside his van (lives in a state park), for the cat afficionados