log☇︎
132 entries in 0.563s
OriansJ: bvt: well believe it not; previously most architectures were easy to encode by hand (PDP-11, PDP-10, Vax, 6502, z80, 8086) but MIPS changed the game by showing with high enough languages one can be brain dead in regards to human understanding of the encoding rules and squeeze a drop of extra performance out.
asciilifeform: ( e.g. 6502, had ~3.5k, z80 - ~8.5 )
asciilifeform: i currently dun grasp what hole mircea_popescu sees in the 'amortize via konsoomer' hypothesis. near as i can tell, it was the exact pattern. 6502 was initially costly, and cost dropped precisely in proportion to how popular 'atari'.
asciilifeform: ( esp. considering that the transistors were placed by machine to begin with, so they aint in any human-comprehensible order like they are on z80 or 6502 etc )
asciilifeform: that 6502, is a 8 micron ic, almost half century old nao
asciilifeform: ( rsa on z80, 6502, etc. is ~nonstarter, even if one 'banks' the address lines to give enuff mem, the 8bit buggers lack a multiplier, so you get 'egyptian' speed )
asciilifeform: ( at one time i tried to rsa on 6502, it's a royal bitch on 8bit-wide chip with no multiplier )
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i've an unbuilt 'btc wallet on 6502' item, for instance.
verisimilitude: I'd wager I could fit an MMC targeting the 6502 in 64K with only minimal bank switching for larger programs.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 17:45 asciilifeform: http://www.retro.co.za/ccc/apple2/paulrsm/6502/INTLST.TXT << woz's much more compact (4kB) float-less basic.
asciilifeform: ( once in a veeeery long time, asciilifeform runs into some land-that-time-forgot where a greybeard owns the building and there are motherfucking blisterpacked z80's, 6502's, etc. hanging there, in dark yellowed plastic, since 1982... )
caaddr: I enjoyed the long series of posts where a gentleman reverse engineered the 6502 die photograph, drawing the schematic from the photo
asciilifeform: 6502 has the advantage of history.
esthlos: a 6502 sounds like a good project
a111: 116 results for "6502", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=6502
asciilifeform: !#s 6502
a111: Logged on 2016-06-24 03:09 asciilifeform: phf: http://zx80.netai.net/grant/6502/Simple6502.html << to get you started...
asciilifeform: or here http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-24#1489165 , say, is one made 'conventional' way, out of an actual historic 6502. complete comp, runs 'basic' , etc. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-01 02:43 asciilifeform: in other iron, http://6502.org/users/dieter/mt15/mt15.htm
asciilifeform: for contrast , here http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-01#1678049 is a 6502 cpu made by hand , of discretes. ☝︎
asciilifeform: this is entirely separate problem from 'i don't know how a 6502 worked'
asciilifeform: in other lulzy backlinx from asciilifeform's www, http://forum.6502.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2944&p=57778#p57778 << 6502 enthusiasts , presumably some were not awake in the '80s-'90s , try to rederive carry-bit formula. d00d links asciilifeform's. which is hilarious because on what, do you suppose, asciilifeform originally studied...
asciilifeform: http://sasq.comyr.com/Stuff/Elektronika/6502_Opcodes_Table.png << oblig.
asciilifeform: the reason this was doable, was that mos6510 -- unlike ye olde 6502 -- had an extra register, that gave you 6 flippable bits , nonmemorymapped; and you could bank-switch with it
asciilifeform: i like z80. like 6502 even moar
asciilifeform: d00d designed a pcb, and wrote a basic for 6502, and afaik ended there
asciilifeform: this becomes 3 64-bit words on opteron; 6 32-bit words on pentium; 12 16-bit words on 8086; and 24 8-bit 'words' on 6502.
asciilifeform: in other iron, http://6502.org/users/dieter/mt15/mt15.htm ☟︎
asciilifeform: http://www.6502.org/users/dieter/m02/m02.htm << see also, handmade 6502...
asciilifeform: ftr i'm satisfied that 6502 was fully known.
BingoBoingo: Anyways, MOS 6502 does all the computing necessary for most purposes
asciilifeform: woz drew up a 6502 box with slightly reduced glue logic chip count, vs the state of art at the time. about same level of accomplishment as, e.g., fuckgoats.
asciilifeform: trinque: my 6502 also lacks 'management engine'
asciilifeform: and 6502
asciilifeform: it is part of why i have continued and daily interest in z80, 6502, and other 'museum pieces'
asciilifeform: i cannot speak for the folx mentioned above, but for me the appeal of, e.g., 6502, or of (pure 'sea of gates', a la FUCKGOATS) fpga work, is that there is 0 shit-in-the-dough
asciilifeform: btw there is one possibly interesting detail. there appears to be a large (how large, i have nfi) set of folks who publish ~actual~ work openly (recently i was on a kick of collecting 6502 and z80 design variations, adapted for present-day component availability for glue logic) and found a wealth of quality (as in, you lay it out on breadboard and it WORX) material. with multi-decade (yes) discussion.
asciilifeform: http://www.retro.co.za/ccc/apple2/paulrsm/6502/INTLST.TXT << woz's much more compact (4kB) float-less basic. ☟︎
asciilifeform: http://www.pagetable.com/docs/M6502.MAC.txt << the infamous microshit (yes, that one) 6502 basic.
asciilifeform: both scripting langs are turdalicious, heavy, and ill-defined. i will point out that 8-bit rom basics were seldom >4kB (e.g., 6502, z80 )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 6510 (6502 variant with 6 extra programmable pins)
asciilifeform: 'What’s more, exploit code requires an attacker to program in the arcane 6502 language designed for the NES processor, relying on the way the virtualized 6502 processor translates this code to deliver malicious instructions.' << cpu produced in greatest number in all of history of semiconductor --- 'arcane' ?!
asciilifeform: i have not succeeded in coming up with a 6502 rsatron that manages to generate a key before the battery (of any reasonable size) and the owner's patience give way.
asciilifeform: in other oldz, https://www.lysator.liu.se/~nisse/misc/6502-mul.html
Bugpowder: uses all these common neuroscience tools to try to understand the 6502
Bugpowder: Some of you guys were talking about the 6502 right?
asciilifeform: and imho 6502 is the more elegant animal.
asciilifeform grew up with 6502 (well, 6510, commodore) rather than mircea_popescu's z80, so it is dear to him
asciilifeform: phf: http://zx80.netai.net/grant/6502/Simple6502.html << to get you started... ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2016-06-24 02:40 phf: are there any 6502 computer designs where you have multiple of them sitting on same bus or talking to same memory
phf: are there any 6502 computer designs where you have multiple of them sitting on same bus or talking to same memory ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2016-06-24 02:05 phf: i'm sure you've seen cl-6502, and i think there's a compiler from the same guy (or perhaps cl-6502 has a compiler too i don't quite remember)
phf: i'm sure you've seen cl-6502, and i think there's a compiler from the same guy (or perhaps cl-6502 has a compiler too i don't quite remember) ☟︎
phf: are we moving tmsr infra to 6502?
asciilifeform: but no, sram has no meaningful (at 6502 speed) latency
asciilifeform: 6502 had no barrrel shifter
asciilifeform: 6502 : ~3.5k transistorz.
asciilifeform: it's a 6502
asciilifeform: because 6502 aint got no mul.
asciilifeform: (6502 didn't have a barrel shifter, so a shift is a 2-cycle op per bit, assuming num is in accumulator.)
asciilifeform: in other not at all nyooz, http://everything2.com/title/Fast+6502+multiplication << witness the non-pedi-wikia.
ascii_deadfiber: and you can get verilog for trad 6502 without breaking a sweat.
ascii_deadfiber: http://www.6502.org/users/dieter/m02/m02.htm << monumentally slow 6502 ~MADE FROM ROMS~
ascii_deadfiber: ^ a 6502 with 64-bit registers.
ascii_deadfiber: meanwhile, from the dept. of definitely-not-nyooz, http://6502.org/users/andre/65k/index.html
mod6: is the 6502 those cocaine looking packages you got?
asciilifeform: but you already have, chances are, a 6502 micro somewhere in the cellar.
asciilifeform: it runs on a 6502 !
nubbins`: but it was beterrn that and the 6502 for a while
asciilifeform: congrats! Z80 or 6502?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27561 @ 0.00056784 = 15.6502 BTC [+]
assbot: xa (xa65): a portable 6502 cross assembler package ... ( http://bit.ly/219VzEP )
assbot: 6502 Images ... ( http://bit.ly/1L47Tza )
asciilifeform: http://www.visual6502.org/images/6502/index.html << moar for old thread re: same.
assbot: Visual 6502 in JavaScript ... ( http://bit.ly/1mOMIFG )
assbot: Visual 6502 in JavaScript ... ( http://bit.ly/1mOMH4u )
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Shame. That 6502 box looks like it would make a spiffy musical instrument since it has the game port for midi
asciilifeform: appears to use a variant of the 6502 processor that is still made by western design inc.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75800 @ 0.00057586 = 43.6502 BTC [+]
ascii_field: go and sync blockchain on 6502.
thestringpuller: maybe 6502
assbot: Logged on 02-09-2015 13:47:14; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-09-2015#1259538 << what 'its own' ? afaik there were z80, 6502, and a few pdp-compatibles. nothing 'own'.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-09-2015#1259538 << what 'its own' ? afaik there were z80, 6502, and a few pdp-compatibles. nothing 'own'. ☝︎☟︎
decimation: oh I thought they used 6502 like everyone else
asciilifeform: it beat the shit out of its contemporaries (z80, 6502) for instruction-compactness
decimation: c64 had a version of 6502 like apple II
BingoBoingo: 6502 finally becoming collectible
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19650 @ 0.00028754 = 5.6502 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: 6502 emulates on nearly everything...
decimation: asciilifeform: might as well run it on a 6502 chip :)
decimation: asciilifeform: http://www.theamphour.com/241-an-interview-with-chuck-peddle-charismatic-chipmaking-coryphaeus/ < chuck peddle claims in the middle of this 2.5 hour podcast that his new 'hybrid DRAM/FLASH ssd drive' contains 11 6502 uC's
assbot: 'Re: How many transistors in the 6502 processor?' - MARC ... ( http://bit.ly/1yZBq05 )
BingoBoingo: <assbot> Mouser Sells Classic 6502 "Antique" Processor << If they cranked it to 1.5 GHz+ would be more excited
assbot: Mouser Sells Classic 6502 "Antique" Processor
asciilifeform: 6502 >> reissued! >> http://www.tomshardware.com/news/mouser-6502-motorola-6800-cpu-processor,14557.html
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what z80. mos 6502.
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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00088285 = 5.6502 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 525 @ 0.00123857 = 0.6502 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [BTCTC] [LABCOIN] 4500 @ 0.00058893 = 2.6502 BTC [-] {9}