log
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mod6: went back to that .ua place kramarczuk's for lunch. had another ruban, got more sausages from the deli. couldn't resist.
asciilifeform: neato
mod6: had some chocolate royale cake.
mod6: yeah, pretty outstanding.
mircea_popescu: http://btcinfo.sdf.org/irc/ << o hai shinohai
shinohai: Hai mircea_popescu :D
shinohai: Iused to have a kiwi irc there too, but prefer gb
mod6: hai shinohai
shinohai: o7 mod6
mod6: how you doin?
shinohai: Not too bad here, watching it rain and reading logz, you?
mod6: same. just trying to catch up on todays stuff. working on eom stuff.
shinohai: Ah yes, time for the soba
mod6: Speaking of which, if any Republicans have any changes to their advertised node, now is the time to let me know. Thanks!
asciilifeform: mod6: mine still exactly where they were last month
mod6: tyvm alf
asciilifeform: ( zoolag still syncing , however. slowly walking through the upper 300s atm )
mod6: yeah, im doin like 400 blocks per day...
mod6: "blocks" : 463407,
trinque: deedbot's as listed, til I sign otherwise
mod6: this is not ideal hardware though, so I should add that.
asciilifeform: i dun have any 'idea' hardwares
asciilifeform: *ideal
mod6: do you have ssd?
asciilifeform: in zoolag yes
mod6: trinque: thx! how goes down there?
mod6: asciilifeform: then that's more ideal than what I'm workin with for sure.
trinque: just fine; took a drive around and really not much "inner loop" damage, cept for shitty buildings and etc.
trinque: we dump our water on the surrounding areas!
shinohai: "blocks" : 418025,
mod6: ah, werd. but you didn't need to "urban kayak" your way out the door or down the street?
shinohai: "connections" : 5,
shinohai is working on some upgrades
trinque: mod6: not once
mod6: that's good.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: briefly revisiting http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-30#1706495 : i'm beginning to wonder if it was simply because of WHO asked. i can't really blame $chix for not relishing the prospect of kanzure et al riding her l337 w4r4z to stolen relevancy esr-style ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-30 19:49 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-30#1706321 << so how is this any kind of fucking improvement.
kanzure: well if it's true that i was the origin of her doxx (which is totally possible, i fucked up), that might color her deicsion, although her continuing to talk with me anyway doesn't add hope to that being right
asciilifeform: why would a ru chix give a shit re 'dox'
asciilifeform: she ain't a shitreich subject
kanzure: well i think she was attempting to be anonymous she was just bad at it, back in 2013 and pre-2013
kanzure: one of the problems is that there's not any high-quality seeders for any of the torrents.
asciilifeform: i thought there wasn't a torrent...?
kanzure: few kilobytes/sec when i looked a ~year ago
kanzure: well there's some stuff from libgen that is allegedly a backup or mirror if scihub
kanzure: but it's not downloadable in any reasonable human timeframe
kanzure: http://libgen.io/scimag/repository_torrent_notforall/
kanzure: http://libgen.io/scimag/repository_torrent/
asciilifeform: i'm not convinced there is anything valuable in there.
kanzure: it's about ~50 TB total of a large chunk of all papers
asciilifeform: ( the comp sci papers that actually mattered, plus a handful of 1990s bernsteins, are already on my hdd... )
asciilifeform: mattered -- 1980s & prior.
kanzure: reportedly 97% coverage of entire elsevier collection
asciilifeform: and if these vaporized tonight, what do we lose ? buncha publishorperish LPU liquishit, where authors concealed ~all raw data, played hanky with pvalues, all the usual nonsense
asciilifeform: i was in this racket, got out. 0 regrets.
kanzure: you have something against libraries....? i mean other than all the librarians being spineless.
asciilifeform: libraries were spiffy back when filled with actual work, by actual people
asciilifeform: but somehow not obvious that dropping snr by churning out liquishit is every bit as destructive as burning library ?
asciilifeform: ( far more so... a burned library, could be restored conceivably from copies. a liquishitted library, field, whole of academia -- try and fix ! )
asciilifeform bbl, meat
trinque: BingoBoingo: I continue to read into the history of the Houston Bayous; this will likely end up a blog post rather than quick news.
trinque: for example, I learn that a certain George HW Bush as state congressman worked against the straightening and lining with concrete of buffalo bayou!
BingoBoingo: trinque: cool
trinque: !!up gabriel_laddel_p
deedbot: gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes.
trinque: what's new in the life of g_l?
gabriel_laddel_p: almost died. just spent 30 days in the hospital.
trinque: what'd ya do?
gabriel_laddel_p: fell 2-3 stories directly onto my legs. shattered one.
trinque sits back for the story
gabriel_laddel_p: me goes "fuck you", stays up, codes for 2-3 days anyways.
gabriel_laddel_p: eventually forced into hospital
gabriel_laddel_p: (others)
mod6: wat
trinque: what substance was involved in this genius decision, to code while leg shattered?
gabriel_laddel_p: I'm german and don't stop for anyone.
gabriel_laddel_p: gene
gabriel_laddel_p: that aside, just masamune bs.
gabriel_laddel_p: theoretically, aside from the place I'm at now I have a room paid for without me doing anything.
gabriel_laddel_p: but am lazy and have a lispm in front of me (more or less) and want to nail this damn thing.
gabriel_laddel_p: there is supposed to be a lisp conference in sf in like 10 months I have to prepare for
gabriel_laddel_p: would like to selll 100x machines there.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: how did it come about... misadventure with parachute?
trinque: forgive me if I disbelieve the part where you shattered your leg then went "meh, time to code"
trinque: also wtf, if you're going to tell a story start at the beginning
mod6: how did you "fall" ?
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: I got preoccupied with girl on train, ended up heading to Berkley rather than Palo Alto by complete accident. oh no, 10:30!. Everything closed & I've been banned from all
gabriel_laddel_p: communities in sf / Berkley area
gabriel_laddel_p: me: "fuck you, I'm going to climb a building & code atop it till sun comes up".
trinque: ahaha
gabriel_laddel_p: this is already day 2 or 3 no sleep. little food. totally ran out of energy
asciilifeform: i had nfi it were possible to be 'banned from berkeley' - what is this, 1500s germany?
gabriel_laddel_p: (managed to climb anyways after accident). went back home after working for a few more days & scared the shit out of strangers / locals who've seen me via inability to walk
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: nonono, like all the houses of people I know in the area
gabriel_laddel_p: I've been banned from everything
gabriel_laddel_p: everywhere
gabriel_laddel_p: the "sf startup crowd" hates my guts.
asciilifeform: how'd that come about ?
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p threw a pie in thiel's face?
gabriel_laddel_p: I'm sane and they're unilaterally morons. I'm not coy about it.
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: actually, someone who works next to thiel day in day out got demo'd masamune. didn't get it.
gabriel_laddel_p: "how does CLIM solve the problems of layout engines?"
gabriel_laddel_p: me: "listen, that you even think a 'layout engine' is a thing means you have no future, period. conversation is over, stop wasting my time"
trinque: look man you don't go around hitting people with the dick you imagine you'll have someday
trinque: or rather, you do, and it's hilarious. keep it up.
gabriel_laddel_p: fwiw, the conversation went of the rails before that. guy is actually a moron who by complete luck was involved with google earth.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: have you considered switching geographies ?
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: I have a criminal record. prolly gotta make 20 MM or so first.
asciilifeform: how about outside of reich ?
asciilifeform: i dun think belarus gives a damn re your unpaid traffic fines etc
gabriel_laddel_p: easier to just make a bunch of money, pay off whatever.
gabriel_laddel_p: (lawyers, courts, passports)
gabriel_laddel_p: as if I'
asciilifeform: did usg actually impound yer passport, gabriel_laddel_p ?
gabriel_laddel_p: never had one.
gabriel_laddel_p: I
gabriel_laddel_p: ve only lived two places. birthplace & CA.
asciilifeform: that'd be a problem.
asciilifeform: didntcha say sumthing about germany tho
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: you realize I don't like... pay bills, rent, whatever, right?
asciilifeform: in this case it's a plus
gabriel_laddel_p: like what the fuck even is paperwork
asciilifeform: can move anywhere
asciilifeform: can't get broker than broke, neh
gabriel_laddel_p: I want my goddamn lispm as of two decades ago please.
gabriel_laddel_p: (aged 5)
gabriel_laddel_p: why am /I/ doing this?
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: speaking of this, while you had your misadventure, various things happened re march to lispm, e.g.,
asciilifeform: !#s ice40
a111: 28 results for "ice40", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ice40
asciilifeform: phf is in ru electron micrographing an 'ivory'
gabriel_laddel_p: !?
asciilifeform: aha.
gabriel_laddel_p: these logs will make some fun reading.
kanzure: http://btcbase.org/log/2014-12-16#954453 << false. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-12-16 04:00 BingoBoingo: decimation: Well it is one of those BTC futures without any BTC delivery deals
mircea_popescu: oh ?
kanzure: full-collateralization only
mircea_popescu: but do you deliver ?
kanzure: i implemented that yes
mircea_popescu: not quite the same thing.
asciilifeform: promisetronium! Just As Good As btc!1!!! (Only A Terrorist would dispute!)
mircea_popescu: shinohai: "connections" : 5, << i think that's how many of the trb list are actually up atm
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform conceivably he's also not in a position to make decisions. recall http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-29#1704499 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-29 00:26 kanzure: oh yeah, i'm not. ok.
asciilifeform: 'oh i was in the ss but made no gassing decisions'
asciilifeform: aaand unlike ss, shitcoinola usg.ops dun conscript nobody.
asciilifeform: involvement is strictly voluntary.
asciilifeform: d00d ain't doing it to make the rent, either.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i can see why his working for fiat lulzfest attempting to fight battle usg lost back in 2014 may not earn him any brownie points with you or trinque or anyone else
mircea_popescu: nevertheless i'm not about to declare working for the shitpiles verboten. especially if the dood is smart enoughj to take his payment in cash.
mircea_popescu: someone's gotta bleed the mits.
asciilifeform: maybe he bleeds it, maybe serves it well and with gusto. asciilifeform does not presently know.
mircea_popescu: coincidentally, i was watching underground. saw it ?
asciilifeform: nein
mircea_popescu: a, may be worth trying. kusturica film, group of ww2 partisans spend all of tito's reign in a cellar.
mircea_popescu: thinking air raids still going on and so forth.
asciilifeform: ooh hey sounds delish
asciilifeform puts on list
mircea_popescu: this ledgerx thing, very much reminiscent of crny's hand-made rifles.
mircea_popescu: "tito said he wants you for the last battle!"
mircea_popescu: "what do you mean the battle of the bulge was done by 1945 ?! we will fight it next year! 1967!"
asciilifeform: see also lt. onoda...
mircea_popescu: something like that.
BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/z7Ewt
BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel_p> this is already day 2 or 3 no sleep. little food. totally ran out of energy << cocaine or which-amphetamine
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo check them out, doods think they're central ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1706954 << not like she fucking wrote it. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 00:40 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: briefly revisiting http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-30#1706495 : i'm beginning to wonder if it was simply because of WHO asked. i can't really blame $chix for not relishing the prospect of kanzure et al riding her l337 w4r4z to stolen relevancy esr-style
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: who did ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well, for a couple hours they were as far as anglophone alt-right was... Until we made great great again
mircea_popescu: whoever is denoted by $chix
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1706960 << nobody outside of tmsr has any servers do they. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 00:43 kanzure: one of the problems is that there's not any high-quality seeders for any of the torrents.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: alexandra of ru . wrote, as i understand, the snarfer and wareztron.
mircea_popescu: srsly, dailystormer dorks running out of a vps, for all the "omg ddos" pretense...
mircea_popescu: wasn't it tashkent or something ? bishkek ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i suspect this is exactly the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-09#1667701 item. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-09 15:11 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-09#1667584 << it is not, and ain't going to be, i'm not especially interested in helping folx to 'embrace and extinguish' it. as far as i'm concerned, 100% of the output is verifiable with the bignum calculator of your choice (e.g. 'bc') and it is no concern of anybody's how it was obtained.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1706962 << back when i dumped the cables, i just put them on trilema. very downloadable by everyone. that's the correct approach. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 00:44 kanzure: few kilobytes/sec when i looked a ~year ago
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i thought the issue was access to said data, not how it was obtained.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it ain't a static blob of warez, there is l as i understand, a snarfer , proxytron, etc
asciilifeform: grabs it from the derps in real time
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1706974 << http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-deal-with-pseudoscience/ ie, yes, have something against "science" as practiced by 20 and 30 something english speaking payola powered retards. which yes, is ~all the whatever collection. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 00:48 kanzure: you have something against libraries....? i mean other than all the librarians being spineless.
asciilifeform: it's moar of a phuctor than a usgdos cableleax.
mircea_popescu: then how could it be a torrent.
asciilifeform: kanzure et al made snapshots of some.
mircea_popescu: i suppose could be in volumes yeah.
mircea_popescu: o btw, anyone ever dug through that large sr collection ? i recall some people dlding it at some point.
mircea_popescu: keys extracted ? anything ?
mircea_popescu: about 100x more interesting i suspect. not that this means it's all that interesting.
asciilifeform: Framedragger iirc began.
mircea_popescu: o ya what happened to teh latvian.
asciilifeform: lessee when he comes back from europistan
asciilifeform: ( he warned of an extended voyage )
mircea_popescu: tru.
mircea_popescu: maybe he comes back with trins, gives ben_vulpes a run for the crown.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1706980 << should be an interesting read when done. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 02:06 trinque: for example, I learn that a certain George HW Bush as state congressman worked against the straightening and lining with concrete of buffalo bayou!
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1706993 << naggumol. want some ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 02:21 trinque: what substance was involved in this genius decision, to code while leg shattered?
asciilifeform: young fellas want to kamikaze, die with honour for the emperor's cherry blossoms, wat.
asciilifeform: not available? will fall off roof with comp...
asciilifeform: !!up gabriel_laddel_p
deedbot: gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes.
trinque: asciilifeform: so why didn't he come work for you then?
trinque: for free.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707007 <<->> http://trilema.com/2016/the-story-of-elliot-rodger-by-elliot-rodger-adnotated-part-nine/#selection-1445.1644-1445.1855 ?! ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 02:27 gabriel_laddel_p: me: "fuck you, I'm going to climb a building & code atop it till sun comes up".
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: not even slightly. personally, the whole "almost died" thing is from the doctors.
gabriel_laddel_p: err... the whole "almost died" thing is from the the doctors. they said this, I should have not just repeated it in logs.
gabriel_laddel_p: imho I would have been fine after a week of sleep
mircea_popescu: the black knight always triumphs!
gabriel_laddel_p: (with, admittedly a broken leg that would take some time to heal, just like now)
mircea_popescu: fractures have to be set, yo.
gabriel_laddel_p: do they?
gabriel_laddel_p: idk.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: folx who dun sleep, die like aids patients
mircea_popescu: yes. there's no cranes delivered with the muscle/bone arrangement to auto-set failures.
mircea_popescu: i wonder if they still do the whole fracture setting class for soldiers these days. prolly not.
gabriel_laddel_p: I know nothing about medicine & defer to my betters.
asciilifeform: paging mats
mircea_popescu: yes well, next time you break anything see a doctor within the hour.
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: anyways, no intent to die for anyone. however also no intent to waste even a minute more of my life on stupid nonsense, ever.
mircea_popescu: eating is not stupid nonsense.
asciilifeform: hey mats did usg schutzstaffel corps teachya to set legs ?
mircea_popescu: schutzfallafel.
asciilifeform: wunderwaffle.
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: agreed. I love eating, but my finances go from 0 to 1k back to 0... regularly
mircea_popescu: at your age that's traditional.
gabriel_laddel_p: & having been banned from the number of social circles etc etc I end up in strange positions all the time.
mircea_popescu: howdja get banned ?
gabriel_laddel_p: "what we are doing today is more important than anything the rest of this supposed startup is going to do, period. go away" (to persons gf)
gabriel_laddel_p: what we were doing was installing masamune.
mircea_popescu: why so hostile ?
gabriel_laddel_p: girl was not attractive enough for me to care, already been paid, the startup idea isn't even an idea
gabriel_laddel_p: it is so clearly and utterly obvious that I'm more important than, whatever, all of sf
gabriel_laddel_p: that they all talk about me at "parties"
trinque: folks are sometimes hesitant to pay you again after "lol fuck you bitch, got your money"
mircea_popescu: oh ? and what do they say ?
gabriel_laddel_p: which is why I have a place to stay & someone making me food right now.
mircea_popescu: is she hot ?
mircea_popescu can sorta follow the logic, "fuck it, no longer need legs now"
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: well, in this instance the (guy) in question thought I sounded important & invited me to come live for a bit. parents making dinner.
asciilifeform: he ain't named bernstein by any chance??
gabriel_laddel_p: the girl discussing me with one of my friends is super duper impressed with me, and increasingly so'
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: lol no.
mircea_popescu: is she 16 ?
kanzure: asciilifeform: there is a cache of all the papers. anything not cached is snarfed in real-time through ezproxy magic. yes.
asciilifeform was about to ask 'she ain't named tanja lange...?' lol
gabriel_laddel_p: he's unimportant, but a nice fellow & knows his place in the universe. just decent white people.
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: nah. like 20-something. I don't talk to her or anything, but, again, people run into, ban, then discuss me at lenght
kanzure: asciilifeform: the torrents are not mine; those are snapshots from either libgen or maybe scihub.
mircea_popescu: i suppose this also could go on the list, other than the teixochips and microscope : depdfizing and SELECTING the decent papers in that pile.
asciilifeform: kanzure: why dontcha simply re-create the engine ?
mircea_popescu: throw all the crap out, publish the rest as plain text/html.
asciilifeform: ^
mircea_popescu: could trivially throw out a large chunk by applying methodical selection criteria. "fails to include its dataset, NUKED"
kanzure: re: throwing out the crap, someone was working on 'compression' (since pdf is awful and highly redundant). he estimated the total data could be 10x reduced.
mircea_popescu: like in the old warez days.
gabriel_laddel_p: to finish that story, I was not even at this party, and don't to any of them + have started charging people to meet with me.
mircea_popescu: proper releases or go away.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel_p sounds like shit's looking up for you then!
gabriel_laddel_p: rich kids who think they're clever hate this, apparently.
asciilifeform: kanzure: djvu in place of pdf, say, for starters
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: yes , finally.
mircea_popescu: kanzure the crap i mean, actual bad "research" papers.
mircea_popescu: optimistically 1% may be worth existing.
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: fwiw, can't wait for the 5-10 years or w/e to come meet irl at some point.
gabriel_laddel_p: sf sucks. tsmr rocks.
mircea_popescu: AND the fact of the matter is that the whole "scientific community" is a bunch of desperate teenaged cunts. all they need is a trump to pussygrab them, and they're cheering for his appearnce.
mircea_popescu: throw up MOST of the papers, establish a level they have to meet, be the king of angloscience.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel_p so what's a plane to cr, 500 bux
kanzure: yes but the scihub person isn't do that :(
mircea_popescu: so you do it.
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: criminal record.
mircea_popescu: um.
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: can't get passport
mircea_popescu: i had nfi you're a felon. what'd you do again ?
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: I
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: I'm not a felon. trespassing & petty theft + ignored warrants for years.
mircea_popescu: afaik unless felon, can get passport. talk to a mexican lawyer.
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: will do.
asciilifeform: iirc folx with outstanding warrant get no passport in usaschwitz. but ianal.
mircea_popescu: has to be federal, which wouldn't be for "trespassing" ie i got drunk at a party.
mircea_popescu: but i have nfi what he actually did etc.
asciilifeform: tru!
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: inside research lab. at night. with no ID to be in there.
mircea_popescu: eh, all the peta dorks have passports.
gabriel_laddel_p: imho, throw money at problem, goes away like most else.
asciilifeform: phunphakt re usa inmates : most live and die passportless
mircea_popescu: well, before money, some thought.
gabriel_laddel_p: don't be poor.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707010 << i expect it's mostly a sign of recognition. his narrative seems to confirm. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 02:28 asciilifeform: i had nfi it were possible to be 'banned from berkeley' - what is this, 1500s germany?
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: criuise ships don't really check ID + bribes exist. I can probably take a one way cruise, hop off & become someone else if I felt like putting in the effort/
mircea_popescu: kanzure and no fucking djavu either.
mircea_popescu: im not aware the shitpiles are allowed in here. but perhaps.
kanzure: huh? asciilifeform said djvu is yes
mircea_popescu: he's a heretic.
gabriel_laddel_p: off for a few days to heal, work & catch up on logs. nice chatting.
mircea_popescu: html of text plus img WHEN NEEDED. that's what science is.
mircea_popescu: djavu is for vampire fanfic.
kanzure: do you feel bad knowing that it's for vampire fanfic? is that something you really want to know?
mircea_popescu: um. what ?
kanzure: i haven't checked if that's the case.
asciilifeform: djvu is a nonturingcomplete item, rather like a multipage jpeg with asciitext ocrtrack (optional)
kanzure: anyway, i agree that the data is in terrible format, should be fixed before dumping 50 TB of crap on everyone
mircea_popescu: omfg my derrogatories don't even register with this guy.
asciilifeform: lol
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes yes, it's a better turdormat.
kanzure: i called you an idiot and you gave me money. the non-registration goes both ways.
mircea_popescu: !#s idiot from:kanzure
a111: 2 results for "idiot from:kanzure", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=idiot%20from%3Akanzure
mircea_popescu: apparently you did not ?
kanzure: hmm. that's unsettling.
mircea_popescu: inquire with teh tulpas.
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/hl/hl.html << example of one 'handmade' alternative to djvu & similar
asciilifeform: ( for vintage paperz )
mircea_popescu: !~calc 8 * 60 * 180
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 8 * 60 * 180 = 86400
kanzure: asciilifeform: you mean... png?
mircea_popescu: kanzure you could probably RETYPE, by your own hand, all the science worth existing being produced each day thrice over.
asciilifeform: ( it doesn't texthighlight, however )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the WHOLE POINT is to get future science to hyperlink old articles.
mircea_popescu: just like select-link to trilema/archive.is works now
kanzure: mircea_popescu: the trick is convincing everyone to give me their science each day. most people just say "nah you'd die from information overload" but they haven't tried.
mircea_popescu: this is 100 times more valuable than "oh noes, i drew out my product symbol hurr"
mircea_popescu: for the inept "typographic" qualities you gain with dejavu and it's shittier monkistan degradations, you LOSE OUT!!! on the only important thing. the only thing that fucking matters. the hyperlinking.
mircea_popescu: it's why we even made the fucking net in the first fucking place motherfuckers.
mircea_popescu: not so idiots could "oh noes, typography, like in a book"
mircea_popescu: what, you weren't there, what the fuck happened ?
mircea_popescu: "i want my computer to lisp because i want to inspect the trees and i think science should be in acrylate slices, like the fucking horses"
asciilifeform: it ain't ever coming out of said slices except by hand entry
asciilifeform: nonzero error ocr is a nogo
mircea_popescu: he can type fast.
mircea_popescu: ALL this takes is to have a basis. it'll acrete once that is large enough.
asciilifeform: would have to separate the flies from the cutlets tho
mircea_popescu: i did say.
asciilifeform: and i suspect that there are no cutlets in there.
asciilifeform: not any moar.
mircea_popescu: but this is why i'm not telling you to do it.
mircea_popescu: he -- thinks otherwise.
asciilifeform: tru.
mircea_popescu: which should answer #hpluswhatwas it's curiosity. i can coerce, because people can't live with themselves if they don't do as i say. a lesson some learn on own skin and some intuit naturally.
asciilifeform: btw worth recalling the fate of various 'open access journal'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in fairness, all were run by jwzs.
asciilifeform: this is so. but in the process exposed that whole edifice is a prestigefarm: 'it won't get me tenuretracked at shitbridge, why should i print there'
asciilifeform: arxive -- exists. nobody ddoses it, even. but folx who want jerbs, still fellate elsevier.
mircea_popescu: maybe he's nuts enough to actually act autonomously, who knows.
mircea_popescu: arxive is jwz through and through. most all of it is crap.
asciilifeform: 'but pray tell mr babbage, if i put into the machine the wrong figures...'
mircea_popescu: but don't put in the wrong figures.
mircea_popescu: that's whart a fucking library is for in the first place.
asciilifeform: indisputably
BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel_p> do they? << Yes, unless you want to be gimped for life. It's a permanent hit to your hitpoints
BingoBoingo: * asciilifeform was about to ask 'she ain't named tanja lange...?' lol << LOLOLOLOLOL
asciilifeform: re elsevier : good name imho for a journal would be ' ELSEWHERE '
asciilifeform: 'don't print at elsevier, go... ELSEWHERE '
BingoBoingo: <kanzure> mircea_popescu: the trick is convincing everyone to give me their science each day. most people just say "nah you'd die from information overload" but they haven't tried. << Have you tried building an obelisk for your science. I hear it works wonders.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not bad.
mircea_popescu: tho maybe he wants to usew you know, his own name. Bryan Bishop's Actual Science Report.
ben_vulpes: pff i go to take my girl for gelato and romp my child with his grandparents and y'all create epic logs
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: package arrived, ty
BingoBoingo: Gelato for 6?
ben_vulpes: "2 and 3" means 2nd and third, "for this much suffering we should fucking get twins"
BingoBoingo: What if she's carrying a five pack?
BingoBoingo: Abortion roulette?
BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/YoYYx << BHAW, music writers hate success of popular populist anthem of White Nationalism
ben_vulpes: i'll probably put up a page on cuntstarter or something
BingoBoingo: win
BingoBoingo: Or you know... invest in cuntstaller or something
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/08/in-reversal-antifa-fad-in-us-being-dumped-on-by-establishment-leftists-amid-dismal-approval-ratings/ << Qntra - In Reversal Antifa Fad In US Being Dumped On By Establishment Leftists Amid Dismal Approval Ratings
BingoBoingo: Maybe cuntlimer you can dial in?
BingoBoingo: *cuntlimiter
BingoBoingo: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=8808&pr=1
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707284 << congrats ben_vulpes ! ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 04:18 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: package arrived, ty
asciilifeform: dun forget to test, ben_vulpes
ben_vulpes: shant, shant.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: actually now that you mention it, i hopped on a scale for lulz recently and realized that i should really stop calibrating my intake against hers
ben_vulpes: lady is quite clearly engaged in a serious fabrication project
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: re package -- let's have the 'unboxing pics'
asciilifeform: to continue in the fine traditionz
ben_vulpes: aah, the waters finally got 'im
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: mhm
asciilifeform pictures ben_vulpes opening box by dog grabbing one end with teeth and son, other end
ben_vulpes: package was robust enough to survive this operation!
ben_vulpes: girl wanted to show me things, but was reading circuit diagrams, "woman, i am reading schematics for a communist killing machine. whatever you have can wait"
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: we had one go to argentiniatan an' back: 0 inner bubblez popped...
asciilifeform: *argentinistan
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: all the printed matter is on www also. but dead tree is backup ( and asciilifeform likes hard copies ... )
ben_vulpes: you can tell it's artisinal asymmetric warfare gear by the vintage yellow dots on the manual
asciilifeform: gestapotronic colour treekiller , neh
asciilifeform: !#s seeingyellow
a111: 4 results for "seeingyellow", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=seeingyellow
ben_vulpes: a headline that won't make the cut this evening: "<something> Javascript: It can work"
ben_vulpes: i tell you, listening to the young feller who shares the toxic trainstation orifice with me prattle on about the majesty of es6 takes what wind is left in the sails of trying to fix a young man's mind clean to /dev/null
ben_vulpes: even he almost gets it, "oh yeah, they just poured the whole sugar bag of syntax in. javascript has python, c#, you name it."
ben_vulpes: "oh dear, i really need some help here. this javascript app is so completely asynchronous that i can't hold it all in my head at the same time." "didja design it to fit in your head?" "no, i didn't really have time for that." "didja...write tests for it?" "no, definitely didn't have time for that" "well, it looks like you're going to have to find the time to painfully debug it by hand without any of the
ben_vulpes: tooling i told you to write three months ago."
ben_vulpes: ("imagine, if they only paid software coolies for software that works" [tm] [r] [asciilifeform])
ben_vulpes: and your parting grade a bezzle of the evening: http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-apple-iowa-welfare-20170829-story.html
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707293 << in fairness, they folded "their oppinion" / alligned to republica ideology WAY the fuck earlier this time around. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 04:27 deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/08/in-reversal-antifa-fad-in-us-being-dumped-on-by-establishment-leftists-amid-dismal-approval-ratings/ << Qntra - In Reversal Antifa Fad In US Being Dumped On By Establishment Leftists Amid Dismal Approval Ratings
mircea_popescu braces for pravda becoming simple retelling of logs in monotone, braindead voice.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707313 << bwaghahha ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 05:04 ben_vulpes: you can tell it's artisinal asymmetric warfare gear by the vintage yellow dots on the manual
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> BingoBoingo: actually now that you mention it, i hopped on a scale for lulz recently and realized that i should really stop calibrating my intake against hers << Smoking cessation invokes a similar realization when the implication of one's resting heartrate falling to a human value from a near avian value on basal metabolism hits
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I doubt it's a folding to Republican ideology so much as "Remember how popular Black Lives Matter was electorally..."
BingoBoingo: De Nile is a mighty big river
mircea_popescu: i measure the whore's performance not her internal states.
mircea_popescu: for all i care, i doesn't have internals.
BingoBoingo: Even from a performative angle, gotta assume WAPO pilotage is a least USG.NAVY.BoatDriving level anti-skilled
mircea_popescu: there is that.
BingoBoingo: Which means it may show aggression beyond its station and try bullying bigger commercial vessels out of their lanes to its loss and actual people's inconvenience.
BingoBoingo: Sure, not worth forcasting that in detail, but it is useful to have an idea where floods first.
mircea_popescu: maybe worth, what do i know.
BingoBoingo: I'm very uncertain. It's easy to know pantsuit eats their own. I lack a refined oracle atm for which demographic pantsuit eats next.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in firehose news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/dbc5b794a781dbd50abce348a1722063/tumblr_nodjz7ymmT1tk4xluo1_400.gif
BingoBoingo: In other biohacks http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/600/960/de5.jpg
mircea_popescu: lol
shinohai: !!up PeterL
deedbot: PeterL voiced for 30 minutes.
PeterL: ah, thanks for the voice
PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707245 << a good example http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/fsn3.88/full ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 03:36 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the WHOLE POINT is to get future science to hyperlink old articles.
PeterL: this is something I needed for work, and tada, web search came up with nice open access article, I was amazed
shinohai: kek
mod6: mornin'
shinohai: Buenas dias mod6
shinohai: Does anyone reading the logs have any info on this brand of SSD? https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-MX300-Internal-Solid-State/dp/B01KKZLX46
shinohai: Keeps popping up in my research but I'm leery of unknown brands.
asciilifeform: shinohai: i have same brand ~pata~ ssd in an ancient dos lappy. not dead yet...
mod6: how goes shinohai
shinohai: Good here mod6 thx!
shinohai: Cool asciilifeform ..... might be worth a shot anyway
shinohai: Bwahahaha, btc-e is back up and joins scam exchange cryptopia in .nz: https://btc-e.nz/
asciilifeform: shinohai: i see a crapflare eggog
shinohai: Really? I can access it
asciilifeform: it's shitflare, eh, serves up whatever it feels like depending on from where
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4703.98, vol: 7723.99980004 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4688.0, vol: 15772.92932907 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4703.51, vol: 3447.11091498 | Volume-weighted last average: 4694.56524437
BingoBoingo: Much crash
trinque: http://archive.is/RrGdX << meanwhile the usg.banks insist they no, really, srsly have a future.
shinohai: BLOCKCHAIN TECHNOLOGEE!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707320 << this knife has another edge, ben_vulpes . most commercial ops don't have the budget ( time, mainly , but money also ) for ActuallyWorksAndFitsInHead(tm). ( picture, if you will, ffa as a commercial project at a secular software co ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 05:15 ben_vulpes: "oh dear, i really need some help here. this javascript app is so completely asynchronous that i can't hold it all in my head at the same time." "didja design it to fit in your head?" "no, i didn't really have time for that." "didja...write tests for it?" "no, definitely didn't have time for that" "well, it looks like you're going to have to find the time to painfully debug it by hand without any of the
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707322 << the other edge of ~this~ knife is 'imagine if they actually paid moar for soft that actuallyworx' ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 05:16 ben_vulpes: ("imagine, if they only paid software coolies for software that works" [tm] [r] [asciilifeform])
asciilifeform: aka lemonmarket.
asciilifeform: !!up sageprobes
deedbot: sageprobes voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: hi sageprobes
asciilifeform: sageprobes: you came from my www... what brings you here?
sageprobes: was expecting a forum tbh, I don't actually have a sage probe I would need help with but was curious about battle stories
asciilifeform: sageprobes: plenty in the logs
asciilifeform: !#s sage
a111: 102 results for "sage", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=sage
asciilifeform: !#s sageprobe
a111: 9 results for "sageprobe", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=sageprobe
asciilifeform: !#s sage_pill
a111: 5 results for "sage_pill", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=sage_pill
asciilifeform: ^ for starters.
asciilifeform: sageprobes: if you don't have a probe+amdmobo, you probably will not find these very interesting.
asciilifeform: sageprobes: care to introduce yourself ? how did you come upon the article ?
sageprobes tips hat
sageprobes: I found the original cracking article plenty interesting :P
sageprobes: Been intermittently following Loper for ages, I'm an Urbit employee ^-^
asciilifeform: sageprobes: another fella cracked independently, a finn,
asciilifeform: !#s from:kmalkki
a111: 66 results for "from:kmalkki", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Akmalkki
asciilifeform: ( though he 'cheated', found the debug symbols somewhere )
asciilifeform: sageprobes: now that has the makings of a good story -- does yarvin actually ~pay~ you lot ?!
asciilifeform: ... with money?!
sageprobes: below market because like ~Haskell tax~ but pays the rent
sageprobes: in San Francisco even!
asciilifeform: what's a haskell tax ?
asciilifeform: !!up fyr
deedbot: fyr voiced for 30 minutes.
fyr: > nick registered
fyr: hmm guess I've been on here before
fyr: Haskell tax is the phenomenon that working in Java or Javascirpt or w/e pays more
fyr: At least as a junior idk
shinohai: I thought working in Java was like a circle of hell or a prison sentence.
asciilifeform: fyr: consider registering with deedbot,
asciilifeform: !!help
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/help.html
fyr: yup, and adequately compensated by googamzbooksoft!
fyr: > ascii armored public key
fyr: see this is why I want urbit to exist uvu
fyr: I can paste in an ssh pubkey I guess?
asciilifeform: pgp
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pgp.asc << example.
fyr: Yeah I'm trying to figure out if this is doable without having a trilema-specific key I'd inevitably lose
trinque: there's no urbit-turd you'd also have to keep holding onto?
trinque: surely this is not insurmountable
trinque: lol!
shinohai: Thank you, hurr-duurbit, come again!
shinohai: (Preferably when you realize what a true digital Republic is)
trinque: lotta calitards slithering in lately. must be climate change.
shinohai imagines trinque on an island of fire ants directing the weather from tx
shinohai: Floating fire ants, to be more specific
shinohai: I figured out that gl broke his leg running from the cops trying to hide crystal meth in wax dildos: http://archive.is/kB5wq
asciilifeform: in other lulzfodder from same rag ( BingoBoingo : qntra?? ) https://archive.is/jpbe0 >> 'Posters paying homage to the Confederate Army and to World War II dictators like Mussolini and Hitler line the walls of the lobby in the 39th Place condo building in the ethnically diverse neighborhood of Sunnyside. Posters in support of the National Rifle Association and President Trump cover the stairwell. Many residents in the building are imm
asciilifeform: igrants. Last week, residents spoke to News 4 anonymously, terrified of retribution. They say the display of posters and propaganda started small and grew to the entire lobby. The building directory lists infamous Nazis Rudolf Hess and Josef Mengele as residents.'
asciilifeform: 'New York City Council Major Leader Jimmy Van Bramer, a Democrat, led a rally at the building last week, saying the man has created a "house of horrors" for tenants ...'
asciilifeform: '...Commission on Human Rights has launched an investigation..'
asciilifeform: the noosefilm ~blurred out swastica~ as if it were, horror, a cunt
shinohai: Oh noes!
shinohai: Such pantywaists
shinohai: !!up fyr
deedbot: fyr voiced for 30 minutes.
fyr: My "urbit-turd" is ultimately on a test-net, and doesn't have live keys
fyr: and if it did and the shitty VPS it's on went down, I'd make doe eyes at Management and they'd unilaterally push my new key into the kernel of everyone on the network
fyr: because lolwut is decentralization
fyr: Afaict the whole point of the nickserv pgp thing is I can't come in a month later all "my laptop finally died of blunt impact trauma, accept new unsigned pubkey pl0x"
fyr: which would be terribly self-defeating if said laptop death did occur
shinohai: omg it is a so-called `cryptocurrency` ?
fyr: Anyway I know I'm on the larp server for "not getting pwned by unspecified pgp-fearing non-Mossad is hard, reliable backups and Linux audio is easy"
fyr: just *grump* at the implication that gpg is usable enough by a non-initiate to get a brainwallet or w/e out of it in 5 minutes
fyr knows he should "just" git gud at crypto
fyr: I guess I could just generate an entropic keypair and dump the private half in Dropbox, but in that case staying unregistered seems more uh honest :3
fyr: (Especially if I keep using this thru webchat on an ~underpatched iPad~)
shinohai: "and dump the private half in Dropbox" <<< please don't fucking do this
asciilifeform: fyr: get an old laptop with no nic and pgp on that. fiddybux.
fyr: It's not, even the desired end state is semi-centralized with 256 root nodes
asciilifeform: fyr: see also http://trilema.com/2013/how-to-airgap-a-practical-guide
fyr: I am very much not going to do that yes
fyr: I have a fresh Librem lying around I can probably use that
fyr: But that doesn't actually solve the "2 years later I drop it in the bath" problem
asciilifeform: it's, what, a couple of kB, to back up
shinohai: ^
fyr: Which requires more proactive multisig running-around
asciilifeform: how??
asciilifeform: you. simply. back. up. the. file
fyr: Okay yes I could just triplicate the primary key on various SD cards and hope nobody finds any of them
fyr: Still involves securing physical possessions as suddenly my job and not evil megacorps'
asciilifeform: imho a grown man, and a programmer, can figure out how to hide a few kByte somewhere, without any help from us
asciilifeform: ( and it goes without saying, that one does this at all times without help )
fyr: Anyway I'm sure I can be talked into it eventually, but I don't have it set up /already/ and am not going to go on a multihour Fetchquest to that effect rn
fyr is at work or sth
shinohai: sekooority!!!!
asciilifeform: fyr: once you figure out why it's done, you'll do it. ( or not. )
shinohai: iT'S TOO HARD!
fyr: "Without help" is a bit harsh, and implies I shouldn't read the ~practical guide~ just linked, but if I have srs keys nobody gets to touch them ya
fyr: Like I'm not saying it is ~an utterly impossible insurmountable burden~ I'm saying I don't have any threat models for which it makes sense
shinohai: Imagine key as physical object, like diamond. You would leave it sitting on kitchen table behind locked doors whilst you work?
fyr: to take on the liability of "don't lose this file or you'll get much more reputational harm than just not registering in the first place"
fyr: No I'd leave it locked up in a bank that all the normies trust B)
asciilifeform: fyr: do you use bitcoin ?
asciilifeform: if you do, oughta be familiar with the 'where do i keep something' problem and the approaches to it.
shinohai: I mean, there are safety measures such as: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1762
fyr: I have like less than one lying around on coinbase for use in buying alpaca socks, not like in any serious capacity
shinohai: LMFAO
asciilifeform: shinohai: that doesn't solve the problem of a d00d who has nfi how to keep a key
fyr: I have any idea it just seems like a lot of work :P
shinohai: asciilifeform: I was trying to be magnanimous and assume he had basic knowledge
fyr is lazy to a fault
asciilifeform: fyr: it's a pretty modest amount of ( largely non-recurring ) work.
asciilifeform: the reward is that you get to actually have an identity.
asciilifeform: and a reputation.
fyr: Have read article, if I was doing this for srs that would be a backup for sharded offsite multisig
asciilifeform: you get a signature, that -- eventually, perhaps -- begins to ~mean something~
fyr: I have a decent grasp of the relevant /primitives/ and am confident in my ability to actually apply them after a couple days of reading manpages
asciilifeform: having no key, is rather like the traditional portrait of being a ghost -- you can looksy but no touchsy
fyr: How many times has any ~ghost~ on this channel actually been impersonated? I guess like if every conversation starts with "get a key already" ghosts just don't exist for long
fyr: And like I get that unforgeable reputation is useful if you want to have a textual agreement to buy some MPEx security for bitcoin, or w.e.
asciilifeform: fyr: this is rather like asking 'how many times have people stolen diamond off your front porch'
asciilifeform: nobody leaves diamond on front porch
asciilifeform: and nobody has serious business with keyless.
asciilifeform: or gives'em anything to make'em worth impersonating.
shinohai: "if I was doing this for srs" <<< no reason to do it otherwise besides practicd in ones own home
fyr: But I don't have any bright plans for making such arrangements, and will consider keyfulness premature optimization until then
fyr has a rhinestone
fyr is listening about how he should put the porch rhinestone inside a $200 safe
fyr: which will take 2 dudes with jackhammers a day to install, disrupting any attempts to get work done during that day
fyr: tradeoffs.
fyr: hi mircea tell me how I should stop being an untrusted ghostfag <3
fyr: actually nvm don't I gtg
mircea_popescu: !!key fyr
deedbot: Not registered.
mircea_popescu: !~later tell fyr so register a key.
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707348 << o hey, nice. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 12:34 PeterL: this is something I needed for work, and tada, web search came up with nice open access article, I was amazed
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707348 << it's a micron tech brand, not exactly unknown, mostly IM Flash tech products anyway. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 12:34 PeterL: this is something I needed for work, and tada, web search came up with nice open access article, I was amazed
mircea_popescu: uh i meant the above re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707352 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 14:26 shinohai: Does anyone reading the logs have any info on this brand of SSD? https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-MX300-Internal-Solid-State/dp/B01KKZLX46
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707361 << be less terrorist. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 15:13 asciilifeform: it's shitflare, eh, serves up whatever it feels like depending on from where
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707389 << aaahahaha urbit has employees now ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 16:17 sageprobes: Been intermittently following Loper for ages, I'm an Urbit employee ^-^
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: had since 2011 or so, when andresen h. funded
mircea_popescu: lulzpop.
shinohai: huur durbit dippy do
shinohai: "If Ethereum is Law"
mircea_popescu: at which point i feel compelled to quote http://trilema.com/2014/the-death-of-taxes/#selection-185.0-185.1138 : "So we understand each other : John is some poor and kinda stupid kid from some ghetto in some indistinct townlet. One day, Mircea the Bad comes there on whatever business, sits down in the bar with his two bitches curled up at his feet and drinks a rum or something. The girls from the ghetto, for love of their coun
mircea_popescu: try (in our example, that sad ghet to) pick John up forcibly, sit him down at the table next to mine and curl at his feet, just like the other two. They're definitely not slavegirls, they have neither the training nor the skills nor in the end the needs or structure of that relationship, and no marble columns, no gardens where water sprinkles among the cypress nor artesian fountains springing forth marzipan await them at hom
mircea_popescu: e, but instead the nude concrete walls, the [low class mass produced kitsch wallhanging stuff], the bedbug infested pressed shitboard nightstand. But indifferent to all these points, they play a role to support a theory : the theory that here too, in the assghetto of shit "we got fine stuff", and a John wh o, even if only four letters long, is still quite as great as any Mircea come from afar."
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707411 << honestly i don't see. what ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 16:24 fyr: see this is why I want urbit to exist uvu
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707415 << lol this guy. the "trilema-specific" item is the only non-specific one. "oh, i can't get on the web from my walled garden dumbphone without a "web specific" arrangement". yes, it's called a key. the freedom-specific item people in cells need is called a key. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 16:33 fyr: Yeah I'm trying to figure out if this is doable without having a trilema-specific key I'd inevitably lose
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707421 the word apparently spread that while just as scary as ever, we don't actually bite. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 16:43 trinque: lotta calitards slithering in lately. must be climate change.
trinque: if there are a few salvageable folks out there, hooray.
trinque met ben_vulpes in Portland after all
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707435 << and you fail to see why this makes your toy project entirely irrelevant to everyone, including yourselves ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 17:32 fyr: and if it did and the shitty VPS it's on went down, I'd make doe eyes at Management and they'd unilaterally push my new key into the kernel of everyone on the network
mircea_popescu: trinque there's at all times large swathes of salvageable cattle. they -- never in short supply. who can be arsed to wield the whip in such copious quantities as they may require, now that's a challenge.
mircea_popescu: fwis the forum's patience already wearing thin at the edges.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/jewish-cuckoldress-husband-tim-celebrate-10-years-wedding-aniversay/ << Trilema - Jewish Cuckoldress & Husband Tim celebrate 10 years' wedding aniversay.
mircea_popescu: (this is a significant problem. consider a model : there's what, ten-twenty millions of bernsteins, kanzure , fyr and what have you on one hand ; and only a hundred or so of us. even if we were to work a full 200 hour's week, if on average one needs 1k man-hours of constant whipping to redress into humanity, we encounter the following birthday paradox : either the whipping is undirected, in which case every tard gets 15 minut
mircea_popescu: es and nothing happens ; or else the whipping is directed, in which case we pick the 3-sigma cases and get 0.03% of 10mn ie 3k people who could be fixed in a few days each.
asciilifeform: bryan ( kanzure ) is in asciilifeform's meat l2 for many yrs, but imho remains a border case
mircea_popescu: now the problem with this is that the stupid beast ~quite deliberately~ (even if uncomprehended by the elements, subhuman as they are, composing that beast) presents them partially. so as to avoid you know, actual results, much like an octopus would touch a stove.)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hence the sigma comments.
trinque: g_l for example can absorb an astonishing amount of whipping with nary a budge. I don't even mean that as an insult.
asciilifeform: i have genuinely nfi re g_l , what he spends his time on, after seeing the film
asciilifeform: asked the q ' so what didja ~change~ in clim etc ' and no satisfactory reply
trinque: I've got e-mail threads with him where I try to spoonfeed him a mcclim support gig, nada
trinque: aha
asciilifeform: g_l wrote that he ended up here via my www, but often it is not clear to asciilifeform what he read, and what -- absorbed
mircea_popescu: trinque i have no clear view of what he's doing, so i can't measure, so i wouldn't even call it that.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the in-character which is to say fictitious name for "the stupid beast presents them partially to avoid phase transitions" is that much-celebrated (in stupidistan) "freedom of choice", ie the batshit insane notion that the unknowing may be involved in decisions as of what to do with themselves.
mircea_popescu: ie http://trilema.com/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it #includes<> an even nuttier notion, that the unknowing can transform ~selves~ into the knowing, without external prod
mircea_popescu: heh.
asciilifeform: sorta whole point of apprenticeship ( and later, in moar decayed times, schools ) is to ~inflict~ this transformation
mircea_popescu: indeed.
mircea_popescu: heck, why not, if there can exist (as in principle can) individuals who need any arbitrary amount of whipping, there's no reason to elide the extreme case. maybe somewhere somehow there exists this jeddi that actually needs 0, is a natural.
mircea_popescu: can't say i've encountered that many ; and can say that from actual lived experience, the "thinks he's jeddi" heuristic is a fine indicator for "head so far up ass the net result of sufficient whipping will be soap", ie http://trilema.com/2015/the-anal-child/
asciilifeform: exists in as much as weight varies and so massless man exists somewhere
mircea_popescu: concievablt.
mircea_popescu: bly*
mircea_popescu: i've had no idea just how frequent 4foot-something females are, pre latinoamerica.
asciilifeform: i dun think these exist where there is food..?
mircea_popescu: anyway. but the discussion does make it plain and obvious why "nonviolence", ie attemptingto limit whippings, is such an automatic companion to "freedom of meaningless choice" as to establish what to the cattle means "human rights".
mircea_popescu: they're stupid-old-woman rights, at best.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what can i tell you, 152 centimeters are a lot of centimeters for this part of the world.
phf: jack daniel or whatever his name (ECL guy, who's working on CLIM) made actual progress on the codebase (though some percent of it is wracker work) despite and since being condemned by g_l. i'm not quite sure what g_l did meanwhile..
mircea_popescu: phf was this some guy briefly here ? or different people ?
phf: different people and i think i'm confusing names
mircea_popescu: a ok.
mircea_popescu: (also, for the completeness of lulz : the stupidistani name for ~meaningful~ choice is "nobrainer", aiming to imply that the only proper use of the cattle brain is the contemplation of meaningless choices.)
mircea_popescu: it's so OBVIOUS, you see, and so EVIDENT, you realise, that one needn't even use his brain for it, whenever the choice is actually meaningful.
phf: Daniel KochmaÅski
asciilifeform: !#s jackdaniel
a111: 13 results for "jackdaniel", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=jackdaniel
phf: hmm, my ircII doesn't unicode at all
asciilifeform: ^ appears in past thread
mircea_popescu: i got an angstrom
asciilifeform: phf: elaborate plox what means 'actual progress.... though some percent of it wrecker'
phf: supposed to be an n with accent aigu, he's i think a polak
asciilifeform: can you picture, e.g., 'd00d fixed my car, some percent, but crowbared the windows' ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-23#1527243 << a year brought a change :D ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-08-23 01:55 phf: "<jackdaniel> [04:47:11] keep in mind my CLIM fu is very weak though :)" yet the guy is collecting money for paid CLIM internals development
asciilifeform: 'fixed the muffler, but took a torch to the engine block'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can you picture NOT "'d00d fixed my car, some percent, but crowbared the windows" ? when exactly was this the case, i've yet to encounter it.
mircea_popescu: and i employ work crews on liek three continents.
asciilifeform: dunno, my (argentinian!) car-fixer, actually fixed...
phf: it's exactly that! replaced a deflated wheel, while also putting a chair on the roof
mircea_popescu: "painted the wall killed the orchid ; unclogged the toilet dented the faiance ; cooked a meal dirtied the pots..."
asciilifeform: 'Хоть врач больному ухо спас, Но выколол случайно глаз' (tm)(r)
mircea_popescu: hey, at least they saved the village before destroying it.
phf: he (and just a few more bounty people) are slowly making it through mcclim bugs, while at the same time introducing questionable things. here's a random example that came up while i was googling his name, https://common-lisp.net/project/mcclim/posts/Progress-report-8.html
asciilifeform: phf: my main prob with clim wasn't even a bug in the proper sense of the word, but the ~unspeedupable basic design
mircea_popescu: anyway, iirc disagreement with gl was re ethertardation.
asciilifeform: i dun recall him ever mentioning etherism
mircea_popescu: who ?
asciilifeform: g_l
mircea_popescu: the other way around.
phf: asciilifeform: i very much remember many threads
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dun follow..?
mircea_popescu: gl condemnation of jd was related to ethereum not technical dispute.
asciilifeform: aa
mircea_popescu: phf the brezier test looks very credible actually.
asciilifeform: 'Our current financial status is $1,429 for bounties and $267 recurring monthly contributions from the supporters (thanks!).'
mircea_popescu: Our current financial status is $1,429 for bounties and $267 recurring monthly contributions from the supporters (thanks!).
mircea_popescu: o damn.
asciilifeform: that looks high for an opensores proj but rather low for a funded op of whateverr kind
phf: yeah, i don't remember the details. i think g_l just wanted to be the top dog on the project, and, to quote trinque, swing a dick that he didn't have by running the whole thing in faux tmsr way (lots of calling everyone cunt), which got him marginalized, and eventually completely sidelined
mircea_popescu: hey phf you have any idea how they calculate the bounties ?
mircea_popescu: maybe he's scottish, cunt just means man in their lowlands gaelic.
asciilifeform: http://turtleware.eu/about.html << looks like could be a scot neh
mircea_popescu: so does the average dog.
phf: i don't think he literally used the word cunt. i've spent some years with the irish, when i'm in moscows i start reverting (i'm not quite sure what the connection is in my brain)
asciilifeform: 'I've decided to build my own company TurtleWare. It is meant to abide by the values and principles I believe in. I have a strong sense of aesthetics.'
mircea_popescu: phf and other than "how do they calculate the bounties", are you supporting this ?
phf: mircea_popescu: i've not really paid enough attention, but they use some bounty tracker https://www.bountysource.com/teams/mcclim/bounties
mircea_popescu: ok, but the problem of interest is how to compute something to end up with the magic number 150. or a replacement.
mircea_popescu: (there's a lot of work went into this in eulora, i dunno if you've seen the various pricing threads. it's to my eyes a very interesting problem)
asciilifeform: '[$100] add PDF file generation (PDF backend)'
asciilifeform: '[$500] Windows Backend'
asciilifeform: waiwaiwai
phf: i ~believe~ that bounties are pulled out of ass by the mcclim stakeholders like beach. "this is tricky and i want it a lot, $500!"
mircea_popescu: yes but...
mircea_popescu: eminent case where better mousetrap would impact.
asciilifeform: also i notice no btc
phf: hmm
mircea_popescu: fwiw this has been open problem in it management since about 1970.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile at the library, http://68.media.tumblr.com/d5a7a2efcebf15a1180768407108718b/tumblr_nv9aj4kViP1r63hg3o1_1280.jpg
asciilifeform: imelda!111
mircea_popescu: !~seen jackdaniel
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: I have not seen jackdaniel.
mircea_popescu: orly.
phf: !#seen jackdaniel
a111: I haven't seen jackdaniel
asciilifeform: https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/markknopfler/imelda.html << oblig
mircea_popescu: i actually invited him.
phf: now, or sometime before?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform caribbean blue is no joke btw ; retards from argentina keep whining about their blue sky, but i just saw one today and there's no comparison.
mircea_popescu: just like everything else re that shithole.
mircea_popescu: phf just now.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i liked the apparent nonsunburniness of the ar sky
mircea_popescu: turns out that's pretty much a feature of not-nato
asciilifeform: ( nfi how this worked. but i brought none of the horrible grease i need to avoid lobstering back where i live, and burned 0 )
asciilifeform: ... without grease, asciilifeform is good for approx 20min, at high noon. even carries dosimeter thing.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what is all this poor people bs /
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was supposedly about a pinoy coup
asciilifeform: narrative was, Evil Orc Ruler had a wife who bought million shoes.
mircea_popescu: myeah.
mircea_popescu: im sure if ian smith's wife was hot as opposed to one of the anglo-dutch looking bags they'd have said the same.
mircea_popescu: can pretty much exactly follow "civilised" inferiority complex by what they whine re "corruption" in orcs.
asciilifeform: aha, recall ghadafi's nurses.
asciilifeform: 'Evil Orc Rapist, why would hot chix so much as touch you if not at gunpoint' etc
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: cuz everyhone knows a girl really wants to be just like that dumbass "congressional aide" what was her name, mary tired or what.
mircea_popescu: they don't even have to be total country bumpkins, even a non-yokel would really love to live in washington!
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707563 << nickserv and "pgp thing" entirely different items. simple scheme to avoid this problem is, sign your future keyset now, keep it as a single copy in a usb thumb buried in your wall. then when laptop dies pick the new one. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 19:14 phf: jack daniel or whatever his name (ECL guy, who's working on CLIM) made actual progress on the codebase (though some percent of it is wracker work) despite and since being condemned by g_l. i'm not quite sure what g_l did meanwhile..
phf: (i kind of missed the question, but also didn't understand it, so will clarify, that i'm not supporting recent mcclim development, financially or otherwise)
mircea_popescu: !!up jackdaniel
deedbot: jackdaniel voiced for 30 minutes.
jackdaniel: yay, so much fame :-) but I'm only accepting PR's after some testing, nothing to praise for
mircea_popescu: damn i have an issue with sticky urls now.
mircea_popescu: jackdaniel what's a pr ?
jackdaniel: pull request (github thing)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707437<< nickserv and "pgp thing" entirely different items. simple scheme to avoid this problem is, sign your future keyset now, keep it as a single copy in a usb thumb buried in your wall. then when laptop dies pick the new one. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 17:32 fyr: Afaict the whole point of the nickserv pgp thing is I can't come in a month later all "my laptop finally died of blunt impact trauma, accept new unsigned pubkey pl0x"
mircea_popescu: a ok.
mircea_popescu: jackdaniel dja know any of the fellows ? asciilifeform ? phf ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if wall burial, put it near steel struts and other large rf-opaques
mircea_popescu: sure.
jackdaniel: I know phf nick, can't remember where from
mircea_popescu: wasn't giving a recipe, just referencing.
mircea_popescu: jackdaniel so a major item of curiosity for me is how do you calculate the bounty values ?
jackdaniel: I work a bit with code. I asses how hard it will be to fix it, how beneficial fixing it will be and how much resources we have
jackdaniel: then I consult with guys on #clim if my assesments are okaish
mircea_popescu: let me put this question into the model of interest :
mircea_popescu: would having more money at your disposal put an inflationary pressure on bounty levels ? ie, for "same work" (admitting for a moment there's such a thing as work-needed scalar) more money ? conversely, encountering headwinds/making little progress over time/decelerating would deflate bounties ?
jackdaniel: it's hard to read what you write. could you rephrase?
mircea_popescu: let's try. so at the moment you have $1,429 for bounties ; let's say the average bounty pays 10 dollars per quanta of "computer work", however defined.
mircea_popescu: had you $1,429,500 for bounties, would the per-quanta payment increase ? maybe to 11 ? 20 ? 100 ?
jackdaniel: I don't know, I don't think so though
mircea_popescu: hm. are you familiar with bitcoin at all ?
jackdaniel: yes, a tiny bit
jackdaniel: sorry, I'm quite busy now. I've read the log – yes, bounties are arbitrary, or as someone nicely put it "pulled out of ass" by me
mircea_popescu: the question is, are you familiar with the mechanisms which render bitcoin unassailable by alt coins (such as detailed in http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/ ) ? because EXACTLY the same processes are at work tearing apart small independent efforts such as your own, and ultimately are the reason usg ended up as the sole employer in its domains.
jackdaniel: regarding gl, he behaved socially unacceptable on the channel and tracker what was a burden because it introduced many childish plays
jackdaniel: which discouraged users from using mcclim
mircea_popescu: aha.
jackdaniel: no, I'm not that interested in cryptocurriencies to think about them much
jackdaniel: either way, thanks for inviting me so I could confirm/clarifiy some assesments about me. Have a nice evening o/
phf: i don't think he appreciated my communication style.
mircea_popescu: phf basically what i take his notion to be re the problem is you know, "i'll just mp it", which may seem like a workable idea until one stops to notice that the original mp never actually attempted to guess prices.
mircea_popescu: anyways.
phf: i don't think he can even grok the shape of the criticism
mircea_popescu: possibly not. language perhaps a factor. but i dun speak polish sadly.
mircea_popescu: anyway, this makes 3 out of 3 not supporting this, and amusingly enough in each case for merits.
phf: i'm not understanding the second half of that sentence
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform doesn't support it because he doesn't like the outer case limits of the design, esp re speed. i am not supporting it because i do not have any faith whatsoever in its financial soundness. you aren't supporting it because hm.
mircea_popescu: i guess i never knew. why weren't you ?
mircea_popescu: (if you're interested by the literalism, "for merit" is one of two ways in which a case can be adjudicated. the other one is on form, such as through lack of standing, lack of jurisdiction, etcetera.)
phf: aah, now i get the whole thing
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'outer case limit' is somewhat of an oversimplification : the thing fitsinhead so poorly, that to this day i am not fully certain why so abominably slow ( other than the abstract fact of 5-6 layers of complexity doing their impedance-mismatch thing together )
mircea_popescu: well, i had space for five words, what do you want from me.
mircea_popescu: (but yes, the reason i even looked irrespective of that being on the table was the involved complexity and the expectation you're not actually speaking from atop it)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707467 << twelve year old boy does not get bycicle so as to avoid "threat model" of laser shooting wolves and flying tigers and boxing bears with a negro's penis oh my! ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 17:40 fyr: Like I'm not saying it is ~an utterly impossible insurmountable burden~ I'm saying I don't have any threat models for which it makes sense
mircea_popescu: twelve year old boy gets a bike because otherwise the cool kids won't let him hang with them ; and if they do not his whole fucking life is forfeit, as a factual matter.
phf: i'm not sure if mcclim can be "made better" by own hands, but i'm not interested in the direction the bounty team is taking it. i agree with ascii, but i think it could be attempted to reduce it to absolute minimum of moving parts, to establish if the design is fundamentally limited or not.
mircea_popescu: he'll end up counting colored beads in boise, idaho and wondering why jc is following anyone to the toilet for the asking.
trinque: phf: I had a recent thread with the beach character in which "yeah, nobody knows what gadgets are for, can probably go" and so on.
mircea_popescu: what's the loc count on this thing btw ? anyone has it ? submn ? supermn ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707469 << afaik this isn't supported by either theory or practice. the harm is exactly same. besides, what'd the negative harm attach to ? the lost identity can't confirm the losing by definition, and a different identity can't attach anything to the original also by definition. so... ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 17:41 fyr: to take on the liability of "don't lose this file or you'll get much more reputational harm than just not registering in the first place"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707474 << i suppose this is where SFYR comes from. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 17:43 fyr: I have like less than one lying around on coinbase for use in buying alpaca socks, not like in any serious capacity
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707487 << every time. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 17:47 fyr: How many times has any ~ghost~ on this channel actually been impersonated? I guess like if every conversation starts with "get a key already" ghosts just don't exist for long
mircea_popescu: that's also by definition. we actually don't attach identity to ghosts, liberally confuse them with each other, treat them as "a different" ghost whatever.
mircea_popescu: your notion that you can be a person outside of the wot is you know, exactly like cumdumpster bimbo's notion anyone notices, cares, or recalls.
phf: it's actually pretty small. 150k or so if you don't count the dependencies. i believe that the mcclim team has pulled a bunch of builtin compatability layers and replaced them with portable "community" versions i.e. closer-mop instead of builtin mop facility (metaobject protocol for dealing with CLOS classes), etc.
mircea_popescu: that's not even terribru. imo within "with-own-hands" territory, especially if there's readily ablatable low hanging fruit.
mircea_popescu: but then again, my "imo" is the producer's "imo", "imo you should be able to take that 9 incher up your ass, i've seen plenty of girls do it before." "that exact one ?" "well no" "up this exact ass ?" "well, you're new." "SO THEN!" "face down ass up already, time's money."
phf: (but then so is franz's clim2, 150k or so, which i spent significant time with, trying to make heads or tales of its hairy object manipulation code, and that "9 incher" bit is apropos)
mircea_popescu: heh
mircea_popescu: a-popo s in any case :D
mircea_popescu: phf it's heads or TAILS btw. which is also apropos :D
mircea_popescu thinks he's had entirely too much fun this morning ; will bbl.
phf: i claim that my already abysmal spelling has degraded because i'm in slavland
shinohai: !!up gabriel_laddel_p
deedbot: gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes.
gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707683 < No, moron, I encouraged _you_ to use CLIM, because ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 19:56 jackdaniel: which discouraged users from using mcclim
gabriel_laddel_p: It seems rather strange to me that you’re assigning bounties to “bugs” when it is clear that in many cases you have read neither the spec, nor the code, nor have the slightest idea what is even WRONG in the proposed bug.
gabriel_laddel_p: Separately I also defunded you to an extent, for the simple reason that you have no vision, nor communication ability, nor coding ability, period.
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: CLIM & ether have nothing to do with one another. you are remembering that I A) completed a bounty and then B) was not paid
gabriel_laddel_p: turns out it takes usg/fiat _three months_ to process fucking 200 usd. was eventually paid. never mentioned it bc wtf, 200 use?
gabriel_laddel_p: *usd? who cares.
gabriel_laddel_p: anyways, there is a lot more to address in the above log, but I did get the largest McCLIM backers to date to stop funding the effort. One of them bought a masamune.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: got how?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707732 << what means 'to process..' here? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 21:01 gabriel_laddel_p: turns out it takes usg/fiat _three months_ to process fucking 200 usd. was eventually paid. never mentioned it bc wtf, 200 use?
gabriel_laddel_p: incidentally, my CLIM implementation is 99,676 lines of lisp code, as calculated by sloccount just now
asciilifeform: that's massive, gabriel_laddel_p
gabriel_laddel_p: incomplete, yes, but there are some fundamental things in CLIM that need to be fixed, such as the notion of a parallel type heigharchy for presentations.
gabriel_laddel_p: fucking idiotic
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: imho can be cut down to an easy 30k loc that will be faster, conceptually "closed"
gabriel_laddel_p: and not so goddamn insane.
trinque: who's going to do it?
trinque: you?
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: well, I do work on this from time to time, yes.
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: first I had to nail down masamune replication. which I actually managed to do
gabriel_laddel_p: (single function call generates a USB that boots into a CLIM environment, no version changes, ever)
trinque: neat.
gabriel_laddel_p: neat doesn't cover it
trinque: no, it does.
trinque: duplicating the contents of a block device is trivial.
trinque: I used to work on a thing that'd multicast images out. say 500 servers pxeboot, slurp image, reboot, post-deploy script runs, and your DC is up
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: it isn't "duplicating the contents of a block device", but rather having that USB able to build itself onto another machine that can in turn generate replication USBs that is the problem
gabriel_laddel_p: maybe I overcomplicated things,but wrote in terms of CPIO format then fed into linux kernel from syslinux.
gabriel_laddel_p: generating CPIO files is... anyways, ascii knows
trinque: at any rate, neat, but the hyperbole is not doing you any favors.
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: what do you mean by "multicast"?
trinque: in the IP sense.
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: if all this is so easy, where is the frozen tsmr gentoo that can do what I described above?
gabriel_laddel_p: and where can I buy a replication USB?
gabriel_laddel_p: I can't quite put my finger on it, but I think we're talking past one another here & have been for some time.
gabriel_laddel_p: (years)
trinque: yeah, you get defensive too quickly.
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: apologies. I think this is mostly just that the path forwards is clear to me, and that e.g., you people see a masamune video & ask zero questions I'm mostly left wondering why you even bother pretending you want a lispm
trinque: anyhow infectious gentoo is sitting on my hd, asciilifeform, whoever else bothered. saying so isn't diminishing you having done it as well.
gabriel_laddel_p: I rather have the same reaction to the old symbolics people in the area who have now seen masamune after sinking you know, a decade of their lives or so into lispm & then don't buy
gabriel_laddel_p: but you know, invite me to stuff & call me "the lisp machine kid" + insist on my showing it off to their idiot friends
trinque: didn't I propose you change tactics a while back?
trinque: how's it gone since then?
shinohai: `you people`
shinohai: hrmpppph
gabriel_laddel_p: shinohai: trinque, phf, ben_vulpes
gabriel_laddel_p: shinohai: in particular. ascii gets a pass for writing loper_os
trinque: ahahaha
trinque: gabriel_laddel_p: right there, you presume to tell asciilifeform whether he "gets a pass"
trinque: yes, dumb fucking kid, still. and a drug-addled wreck to boot.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: what part of 'no x86, no c, no unix, in the fucking box' is hard to understand?
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: let's put it this way irrespective of anything any of you say, I say the future is going to look like this:
trinque: !!down gabriel_laddel_p
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707767 << they want a lispm. not a 'i can't believe it's not a lispm' ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 21:16 gabriel_laddel_p: I rather have the same reaction to the old symbolics people in the area who have now seen masamune after sinking you know, a decade of their lives or so into lispm & then don't buy
trinque: you do not have a declarative relationship with the future
shinohai: ^
asciilifeform: trinque: let the d00d say what he meant
asciilifeform: !!up gabriel_laddel_p
deedbot: gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes.
trinque: alright.
asciilifeform: trinque: can always kick'im laters
shinohai: aite
gabriel_laddel_p: first concrete step towards sane computing is a tsmr gentoo that is A) self contained B) infectious / replicates as described above C) uses CLIM for all graphics.
gabriel_laddel_p: all existing CLIM implementations have problems. it is an annoying, irritating, but utterly straightforwards process to fix any of the extant CLIM implementations
gabriel_laddel_p: this means that all of the Unix tooling can essentially be dumped in favor of lisp + CLIM.
gabriel_laddel_p: no emacs, but rather a CL editor & so forth.
gabriel_laddel_p: this is essentially what masamune is, admittedly in a ragged & impoverished form, right now, today.
trinque: and how does having a lisp userland atop a massive C kernel help?
trinque: understand that the kernel defines the ways in which userland shall interact with it, and thus shapes userland?
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: because lisp/s-expressions/incremental compilation means that you don't have to make decisions about everything right away.
gabriel_laddel_p: an entire, sane lispm-like (which yes, ascii disagrees with) unix can be had, and then this can meet the hardware implementation "in the middle"
gabriel_laddel_p: specifically, when I say "meet in the middle", a fixed CLIM will run just fine on new tsmr hardware reverse engineered fpga lispm with a minimum amount of fuss
gabriel_laddel_p: it is unclear at this point what the hardware, real lispm implementation is going to look like & I have months of logs to catch up before I begin to even comment on this
gabriel_laddel_p: there are however, a number of issues, such as a how to get rid of floats & what to replace them with that can be safely engineered on the unix-not-even-lispm
gabriel_laddel_p: for example, are you familiar with the book "the end of error"?
gabriel_laddel_p: https://www.amazon.com/End-Error-Computing-Chapman-Computational/dp/1482239868
gabriel_laddel_p: now, I am 100% with ascii that floats have to die. no question. I, however, am severely undereducated & don't know what to replace them with.
trinque: how do you bridge the gap between your hyperbolic statements about the future of computing and what you just said?
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: I'm telling you it is going to play out like that, and not in another way.
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: perhaps I'll be shown to be wrong.
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: anywyays, this seems obvious to me. MP has been asking for a tsmr linux for years. if you all have had it floating around FUCKING RELEASE.
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: do you need me to find log references for when he has asked this, or do you remember offhand?
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: or do you disagree with his judgement that such a thing is necessary?
trinque: read the logs, idiot.
trinque: danielpbarron is offering a gentoo lappy iirc.
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: I have seen this.
trinque: asciilifeform: I've lost interest in this thread, all yours.
phf: gabriel_laddel_p: you're moving targets though. if you're building a tmsr linux nobody's going to fault you, but if you're going to approach a bunch of lisp heads with a half assed sbcl environment on a unix machine and tell them it's a "lisp machine", expect nothing but contempt
gabriel_laddel_p: phf: you know "lisping at jpl"?
gabriel_laddel_p: the author saw it, "whoa, a lispm!"
gabriel_laddel_p: "how do I get?"
gabriel_laddel_p: we are going to be getting dinner at some point is my understanding to work out details.
gabriel_laddel_p: but was recently in hospital, so postponed.
gabriel_laddel_p: incidentally, I remembered exactly where the demo to google earth guy went off the rails after logging off last night.
gabriel_laddel_p: he saw, with his own eyes the line count for CLIM, and had worked with the browser for several years. we looked at the loc count for chrome & compared.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel_p from their own lists it says it wasn't claimed or something.
mircea_popescu: but it's there, i recall seeing it.
gabriel_laddel_p: he thought 100k loc in one language vs. ~30 million in 20 languages wasn't a big deal.
gabriel_laddel_p: at which point I was sort of curious what the fuck he did all day at google anyways
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel_p https://archive.is/JBveg#selection-187.0-187.71
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: ah, k.
phf: gabriel_laddel_p: it was a form of speech, but it didn't go anywhere with you. i'm saying it's not a lisp machine, because i have a lisp machine on an fpga right here, ron garret saw a demo and thinks it's a lisp machine. he's sold, i'm not, so it stands.
gabriel_laddel_p: phf: I really need to catch up on what you've been up to.
gabriel_laddel_p: still months behind on logs, few days to catch up.
gabriel_laddel_p: +
mircea_popescu: and re the whole http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707682 let it be stated for the record that self-same gabriel_laddel_p attempted same here, was readily snapped out of it. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 19:56 jackdaniel: regarding gl, he behaved socially unacceptable on the channel and tracker what was a burden because it introduced many childish plays
mircea_popescu: while im not proposing to ~necessarily~ encourage misbehaviours in soldiers, a poorly disciplined troop is the responsibility of the commanding officer and no one else. so no, i dun think much of the quality of authority over there in this context.
mircea_popescu: but this is splitting hairs.
gabriel_laddel_p: for the record, my "unacceptable behavior" was stating outright that windows has no place near the codebase. nor osx.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel_p you probably made that point by telling some tanja lange she's fat, in what's becoming signature style.
mircea_popescu: (do i have the right deGRasse account fossVERIFIED btw ? fat blondy ? or am i confusing ghosts.)
mircea_popescu: o dude srsly, still no key ?
mircea_popescu: !!key gabriel_laddel_p
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/5787B7B432C4D799A52220EC2991FD97FBEB6F3B.asc
mircea_popescu: !!gettrust deedbot gabriel_laddel_p
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: -1 by 3 connections.
mircea_popescu: lordy.
mircea_popescu: !!getratings gabriel_laddel_p
mircea_popescu: !!help
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/help.html
mircea_popescu: !!rated gabriel_laddel_p
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated gabriel_laddel_p -1 at 2017/01/30 17:00:14 << turns out the appeal was mostly to bang the head.
mircea_popescu: !!ratings gabriel_laddel_p
deedbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/HFCjl/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: !!reputation gabriel_laddel_p
deedbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ZCsk4/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: !!up gabriel_laddel_p
deedbot: gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes.
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: I have key, but cannot up due to the -1.
mircea_popescu: myeah. if anyone cares to 1 i'll take it off.
shinohai yawns, pops popcorn
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707754 << amusingly, this is just about danielpbarron 's eulora set-uper thing. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 21:10 gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: it isn't "duplicating the contents of a block device", but rather having that USB able to build itself onto another machine that can in turn generate replication USBs that is the problem
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707760 << this is precisely why it doesn't exist : cuz people dun think it's a big deal per se, and so can't be bothered to do that before they actually build a disk device full of something they'd actually want replicated. which cuntoo isn't at yet. maybe just on the cusp, i guess. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 21:12 gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: if all this is so easy, where is the frozen tsmr gentoo that can do what I described above?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707765 << i'd be surprised if 1 in 10 people here watch any given video. prolly goes to 1 in 2 or 3 re pics, and is 1 in 1.x or even 1.0x re text. so bear that in mind. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 21:15 gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: apologies. I think this is mostly just that the path forwards is clear to me, and that e.g., you people see a masamune video & ask zero questions I'm mostly left wondering why you even bother pretending you want a lispm
shinohai: The thing with cuntoo is, it *does* exist in the sense that more folx use it as it exists now than they do other non-OS's
mircea_popescu: and speaking of videopix and micro-scopy slides, http://68.media.tumblr.com/119d58c8f88e0383e78afb297c045acc/tumblr_nwug3dH0ri1uesapdo1_500.gif
mircea_popescu: shinohai there is that, yea.
shinohai: mETH, helluva drug
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707865 << i've actually watched the whole video, and commented on it in logs. i'd like to point out that ~before~ watching the video i was making plans to fly to SF in short time to buy a masamune machine ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 21:59 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707765 << i'd be surprised if 1 in 10 people here watch any given video. prolly goes to 1 in 2 or 3 re pics, and is 1 in 1.x or even 1.0x re text. so bear that in mind.
mircea_popescu: heh.
trinque: I meanwhile offered a couple hundred bucks to just get a current build of the software, because I had no interest in the ONE TRUE lenovo turd or w/e he'd selected.
trinque: guy doesn't want money, or to eat.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1575254 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 23:58 phf: gabriel_laddel: well this is my avocation, so hacking on hemlock and installing masamune in sfo is cost equivalent. i'd make a trip just as a mini vacation, i'll see when's the closest i can swing it
phf: but suddenly! http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-24#1632219 http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-24#1632224 ☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-24 03:11 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-24#1632161 << i just didn't think the video was good. i also can install all the individual packages that are involved, but i wanted to see if and how the symbiosis makes you more productive
a111: Logged on 2017-03-24 03:11 phf: but there was none of that, because there wasn't actually anything being done. i think it would be a lot more impressive if you setup a non trivial task and showed how masamune makes that task easier to perform
mircea_popescu: he's not getting a 1 is he.
phf: a good example of what i mean by "do something nontrivial" is baggers's series on CEPL "pushing pixels with lisp" https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMV8p6Lb-bd6UZtTc_QD4zA which shows real time graphics wizardry mediated by an sbcl/emacs
phf: or even marco baringer's slime tutorial which is the original video demonstrating the particular setup that "masamune" is trying to put lipstick on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B_4vhsmRRI
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707830 << say moar ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 21:43 phf: gabriel_laddel_p: it was a form of speech, but it didn't go anywhere with you. i'm saying it's not a lisp machine, because i have a lisp machine on an fpga right here, ron garret saw a demo and thinks it's a lisp machine. he's sold, i'm not, so it stands.
phf: parker's cadr
asciilifeform: re fpga ( there were various 'i'ma throw something together, with 11 different closed dramcontroller, nic, etc from xilinx lib ) , a german, and i fughet who else, all similar
asciilifeform: oh yea and parker.
phf: the sentece was corny, i meant that "i didn't buy masamune (because ..) but ron garret did"
asciilifeform: since we're on subj, asciilifeform got the recently released ice40-8k (largest in the series) going. ( there's only 1 decent dev board for the 8k, the one released by olimex ~2wks ago )
asciilifeform: it worx. ( blinkenlichts, couplea hundred universal i/o pins, schematic published )
asciilifeform: 512k of sram (16 bits wide).
asciilifeform: comes with 100MHz clock gen, but has pll, tunable.
asciilifeform: ( rather like xilinx, if you're a reformed xilinxist )
asciilifeform: phf: at some point ( and by this i mean when finished ffa / released 'p' ... ) i'ma have a large board made, with, say, 8 ice40-8k's, and row of dimm-holders...
asciilifeform: !!rated gabriel_laddel_p
deedbot: asciilifeform rated gabriel_laddel_p 1 at 2016/12/01 18:37:11 << possibly == gabriel_laddel
asciilifeform smiles the smile of a lazy man -- dun have to do nuffin'
shinohai: !rate asciilifeform 4 dindu `nuffin
shinohai: ^_______________^
asciilifeform: lollamatic
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707865 << ftr, i watched it ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 21:59 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707765 << i'd be surprised if 1 in 10 people here watch any given video. prolly goes to 1 in 2 or 3 re pics, and is 1 in 1.x or even 1.0x re text. so bear that in mind.
asciilifeform: ( and no, did not buy a gabriel_laddeltron. though i did mail him a lappy, because he mentioned needing a new comp )
trinque: that anticounts
trinque: lol
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707874 << d00d forced himself into that mistake, gotta standardize the iron ~somehow~ ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 22:07 trinque: I meanwhile offered a couple hundred bucks to just get a current build of the software, because I had no interest in the ONE TRUE lenovo turd or w/e he'd selected.
mircea_popescu: myeah, he sends it to you, "dun werk". well...
mircea_popescu: even extremely well debugged, amply studied set-ups still "dun werk" often enough. like http://logs.minigame.bz/2017-08-31.log.html#t03:41:37
lobbesbot: Logged on 2017-08-31 03:41:37: <rinzler> hi, i'm having a bit of a problem completing the installation process on ubuntu 14.04. For some reason I'm getting error that suggest the CRYSTAL environment variable is not set, when it is.
mircea_popescu: the hope always being "hey, pebkac". but...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: soft-ontop-of-heterogeneous-iron sounded like great thing back in the bad ol' dayz of pdp, bolix, et al...
asciilifeform: but in practice -- not so hot
mircea_popescu: myeah
asciilifeform: crapple, for instance, survived 1990s solely from not committing this atrocity
asciilifeform: and then again in pocket comps
trinque may use standard hardware when it means "all carved from diamond by the gods" and not "all haz teh same aids"
trinque: not before
mircea_popescu: media buying. apple survived by being a judicious media buying company.
asciilifeform: trinque: standard iron doesn't have to mean 'standard fritz chip'
asciilifeform: trinque: can also mean 'standard fpga, because why the everliving fuck would you do anything to an fpga except to make it larger'
mircea_popescu: afaik the only known case of "positive roi from this activity over any kind of interval". otherwise sorta "pick pennies in front of steamroller" activity, countless trillions were wasted to date in the attempt.
mircea_popescu: and the pennies are literal pennies.
trinque: asciilifeform: didn't I say as much?
asciilifeform: trinque: possibly elsewhere
trinque: wasn't it lenovo that shipped some backdoor, publically shamed
trinque: asciilifeform: I just did
asciilifeform: trinque: they shipped ( and continue to ship ) winblowz rootkit in-bios
trinque: sure, we don't disagree at all.
asciilifeform: ( at same time , intel ships at least 2 independent remote anal punishment holes in chipset; then there are the nic vendors (incl. intel...) and so forth )
asciilifeform: imho it is not even a very rewarding activity, to catalogue'em all
asciilifeform: it is like listing all of the bullets inside torso of a man who was machine-gunned
asciilifeform: he won't become any less dead, from said listing
trinque: nor to publish a list and say "ohai NSA, here's the list of hardware we all chose from your catalog" eh?
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: i could see the argument for reviews of ~vintage~ iron ( we had a number of threads on subj, incl. the meat thread in c3 ) but that's about it.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707920 << i was speaking of the greater, imho, puzzler, of the pre-ipod-apple product line -- the comps ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 22:37 mircea_popescu: media buying. apple survived by being a judicious media buying company.
asciilifeform: and how they survived the '90s to present day. ( as in fact the last gasp of the commercialunix world )
asciilifeform: phf et al : to briefly continue http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707895 -- picture an a4-sized plinth, of, e.g., 32 dimm slots. each can contain a card of sram, or alternatively of 4 ice40-8k's, or some peripheral ( e.g. nic magnetics. ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 22:26 asciilifeform: phf: at some point ( and by this i mean when finished ffa / released 'p' ... ) i'ma have a large board made, with, say, 8 ice40-8k's, and row of dimm-holders...
trinque has a keybinding to unbind :p
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform: re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707910 and g_l , this is actually sop in large industrial equip. -- NOBODY ships $500k robot and 'oh hey here's a stack of cd, install on a winblowz box of your choice', they ship with pc ( and usually display, even ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 22:35 mircea_popescu: even extremely well debugged, amply studied set-ups still "dun werk" often enough. like http://logs.minigame.bz/2017-08-31.log.html#t03:41:37
lobbesbot: Logged on 2017-08-31 03:41:37: <rinzler> hi, i'm having a bit of a problem completing the installation process on ubuntu 14.04. For some reason I'm getting error that suggest the CRYSTAL environment variable is not set, when it is.
asciilifeform: often enough the comp ( and the pathetic imitation of an os inside ) is even included in the service contract.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in monkeystan, https://archive.is/bL3CH >> 'the FCC lets you upload any file to their website and make that file publicly accessible using the FCC.gov domain'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform macintosh was showing the same steve jobs signature "actual positive roi media buying".
asciilifeform: which media tho?
mircea_popescu: people keep thinking woz was "the man behind". the sort of people who like to think that and therefore do are also the sort of people who never get anywhere "for no fault of their own".
mircea_popescu: all sorts. from paper mags to obscure network afils.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: woz was not connected with the mac era
asciilifeform: afaik.
mircea_popescu: jobs did ~nothing else.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform true, was talking more in general.
trinque: "famous 1984 ad"
mircea_popescu: for instance.
asciilifeform: plenty of now long-dead and rightfully buried vendors bought $maxint ads.
mircea_popescu: anwyay, my point being that wozniak was not the larger part of a woz-jobs team.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exactly.
mircea_popescu: they - brought the wrong ones.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have yet to encounter the pov that woz 'was larger part'
mircea_popescu: which is why jobs belongs buried next to ogilvy not next to naggum
asciilifeform: d00d designed a pcb, and wrote a basic for 6502, and afaik ended there
asciilifeform: lolyea
asciilifeform: gotta also recall, the crapple2 comp was nothing particularly special -- commodore cost ~same and was 10x the bang for buck.
mircea_popescu: as is the case with ~any apple offering.
asciilifeform: visicalc crowned crapple.
asciilifeform: ( we had, iirc, thread!
asciilifeform: !#s visicalc
a111: 14 results for "visicalc", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=visicalc
asciilifeform: )
asciilifeform: hey, when competitors have a habit of cutting off own heads -- almost as good as greatness!11 or sumthinglikethat
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in ic-pr0n, http://www.clifford.at/icestorm/bitdocs-8k << spiffy example of nonpdfized ( per earlier mircea_popescu thread ) hierarchical docs
shinohai: ^ generated by python, no less
asciilifeform: !~later tell mircea_popescu http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/DhCs6/?raw=true
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hehe.
mircea_popescu: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/fhTSI/?raw=true
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 1) it's obviously unidirectional a->b, yea 2) aite