⏐︎ 10230
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50700 @ 0.00027849 = 14.1194 BTC [-]
nubbins`: "By default this override file is named local.mk and located in the top directory of the Buildroot source tree, but a different location can be specified through the BR2_PACKAGE_OVERRIDE_FILE configuration option."
nubbins`: lies, no such file exists!
trinque: "...on 400th target..."
trinque: boost is the fire swamp
asciilifeform: nubbins`: could wait till i post this, you know
asciilifeform: i'm in the process of slicing out all of the actually relevant changes
nubbins`: heh. i'm actually just trying to feed in my own tar right now
nubbins`: practice, if nothing else
trinque: "...failed updating 3 targets..." BOOOOOOST.
nubbins`: ^ <+nubbins`> practice, if nothing else
nubbins`: tbh a fair percentage of my programming knowledge comes from hunting down stupid compile errors
nubbins`: like on the order of 80%+
trinque: eh I know the drill
trinque: boost is absurdly complex tho
trinque: I used it long ago working on a parental controls thing at a shartup
nubbins`: in fairness, the work behind presenting you a bash prompt is absurdly complex 8)
nubbins`: a shartup :0
trinque: an ass hair, the same from a perspective
trinque: nubbins`: oh yeah, big time
trinque: ruby on rails, and wads o boost c++
nubbins`: phun joke for people who work in offices: wander over to helpdesk and say "man, i found this usb stick in the parking lot and now my computer's acting /crazy/"
trinque: heh!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95371 @ 0.00027418 = 26.1488 BTC [-] {4}
mod6: <+jurov> my mom was using "husqvarna" << they make my favorite chainsaws / best chainsaws imho ☟︎
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 324150 @ 0.00028134 = 91.1964 BTC [+] {4}
trinque: hm, boost wants bzip2 even though it's been instructed to not use that
trinque: that's about all the monkey-football time I have for today
mircea_popescu: your instructions have no power here.
mircea_popescu: in other news, pot makes one fat. proof inside : http://40.media.tumblr.com/45312d5667ec719da8582897f6e78cd4/tumblr_mj7tt10qNE1s78jo7o1_500.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1I6yIw6 )
nubbins`: i was fat before pot
mircea_popescu: lol
trinque: gotta eat before you smoke!
trinque: man that chick... I bet she smells bad; they always do
asciilifeform: who's they
cazalla: while i await danielpbarron's response, anyone want to suggest why the pogo flashes green after following his guide after a reboot?
asciilifeform: cazalla: iirc that's the default left by uboot
cazalla: oh i forgot to mention, can no longer ssh to it or anything
asciilifeform: cazalla: serial port?
ben_vulpes: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/28/technology/ellen-pao-kleiner-perkins-case-decision.html?_r=0
assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1NpFvTg )
trinque: asciilifeform: "stoner chicks"
asciilifeform: trinque: why would that be
ben_vulpes: tl;dr: kleiner perkins wins, modern french revolutionaries proclaim great victory
ben_vulpes: "at least the cause has been moved forwards!"
ben_vulpes: i had a massive change of heart at lunch today
asciilifeform read that earlier today, but had a mindfuck and thought it was about perkin elmer
ben_vulpes: i am officially in favor of every welfare and spending plan in america
cazalla: asciilifeform, something i can pursue next weekend i guess
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 'heightening the contradictions' ?
ben_vulpes: the more distracted by sexual inequality, gender inequality, income inequality, and the more attention they're paying to the management of the epic bureaucracy so built, the less time and energy will be devoted to the impending conflicts.
ben_vulpes: more along the lines of draining the battery, asciilifeform.
ben_vulpes: universal healthcare? fuck yes!
mircea_popescu: congrats, you are now clinton.
asciilifeform: at the risk of mixing metaphors, the battery is powered by burning the (remaining) furniture.
mircea_popescu: im pretty sure the woman is thinking, and im pretty sure this is what.
ben_vulpes: universal jobs program?
ben_vulpes: go for it!
ben_vulpes: robot horses?
ben_vulpes: why not?
trinque: inverse of "starve the beast"
trinque: gorge til death!
ben_vulpes: jets that fly like shitty helicopters and cost a bezzilion?
trinque: I like it
ben_vulpes: DO IT
ben_vulpes: those remaining fat reserves? eat 'em.
ben_vulpes: dig in and enjoy while it lasts, piggies.
mircea_popescu: there's a reason that story of mine is set at a feast.
mircea_popescu: appetite lacking, but anyway.
asciilifeform: can't speak for ben_vulpes, but no one came and asked me if the jets should be built
asciilifeform: so having a position on the matter feels odd
ben_vulpes: it constrains conversational attack surface
mircea_popescu: get with the social media age alfie.
asciilifeform: l0l mr o polls, 'should grumman get another $tril' ?
mircea_popescu: kickstart it.
trinque: I heard lockheed martin is going to build the enterprise with a fusion reactor
trinque: *upvote*
asciilifeform: suckstarter.
asciilifeform: (as in harley)
mircea_popescu: as in bad lay
asciilifeform: someone, iirc al schwartz, described his sister as 'could suckstart a harley'
mircea_popescu: men reach a certain age where the only way they're fucking anything is if that anything sucks them off first.
mircea_popescu: hence a very cold reception to much younger men's ideas about "couldn't abstain"
mircea_popescu: nigga, say wut ? rape her ? youredoingitwrong.
asciilifeform: in othere news
asciilifeform: we have sata.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81003 @ 0.0002678 = 21.6926 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: good news.
asciilifeform: ... aaand
asciilifeform: chucked all the extra crud
asciilifeform: from kernel
mircea_popescu: 3.5 mb/
asciilifeform: not size that matters so much
asciilifeform: but brain footprint
asciilifeform: drive mounts.
asciilifeform: yes, that weird sandisk.
asciilifeform: sd and usb also work.
asciilifeform: boot time, from end of udev pause, is ~3 sec.
mircea_popescu: nioce.
asciilifeform: 927d52a91421ad608ceaf011e56aa91d18f478f81707a8774bc0cbdb146621f5118b35c640b376cdcaef206be98b520802f1f749e387b1b4876d6a6a0d080bd1 turdel-now-with-sata.gz
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/turdel-now-with-sata.gz
decimation: asciilifeform: re: rf quiet pc < the original IBM AT came in a heavy metal case, fully shielded
asciilifeform: shielded but for the keyboard, display..
asciilifeform: power
asciilifeform: 'heavy metal case' is not the same as 'tempest shield' regardless of appearances
asciilifeform: though it beats plastic
decimation: asciilifeform: agreed
decimation: but to get actual tempest shield request spending golden toilet money
decimation: the best approximation one can get as a civilian is to purchase FCC "class B" devices
decimation: golden toilet lcd displays > http://www.apitech.com/product-classes/sst-emcon-tempest-monitors
assbot: SST / EMCON TEMPEST Monitors | API Technologies ... ( http://bit.ly/1yodbKb )
decimation: asciilifeform: http://www.theamphour.com/241-an-interview-with-chuck-peddle-charismatic-chipmaking-coryphaeus/ < chuck peddle claims in the middle of this 2.5 hour podcast that his new 'hybrid DRAM/FLASH ssd drive' contains 11 6502 uC's
assbot: An Interview With Chuck Peddle - Charismatic Chipmaking Coryphaeus | The Amp Hour Electronics Podcast ... ( http://bit.ly/1yoevNa )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, danielpbarron, punkman, nubbins`, et al:
asciilifeform: achtung, panzers!
asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000074.html
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1yoeybM )
asciilifeform: 'Presenting... Build your own Pogotron.'
asciilifeform: tested the result, too
asciilifeform: should take about 20 min. on a typical box, to build the WHOLE ORCHESTRA
asciilifeform: incl. compilers.
asciilifeform: ^^^^^^ thing i promised mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1068981 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 22:31:11; mircea_popescu: well, how soon can we have it ?
asciilifeform: is here.
decimation: congrats asciilifeform
mircea_popescu: lalala
asciilifeform: gentlemen, start yer enginez
decimation: I need to download one from amazon
trinque: bravo
trinque: asciilifeform: am meeting up with ben_vulpes and other friends tonight, and I'll bring along the pogo
mircea_popescu: ah how splendid.
asciilifeform: the cookbook is brutally terse, if any of it isn't obvious plz ask while i'm awake
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron manual asap!
decimation: asciilifeform: was this run on your gentoo box?
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: it ought to run on any reasonable unix though
asciilifeform: uses nothing local but gcc
mircea_popescu: anyone know like a nude housekeeper service in dc or something ?
trinque: asciilifeform: I tried the crossdev compile of bitcoind and got as far as boost hell regarding bzip2
decimation: ja but does it depend on particular gcc to bootstrap?
asciilifeform: trinque: note that bitcoind is not included in this yet
trinque: but have working cross compilation tooling otherwise, which farts executibles agreeable to the pogo
trinque: yep
asciilifeform: decimation: i only tried it on 4.8.x
asciilifeform: decimation: if you have something unusually archaic, may have problems
decimation: k.
asciilifeform: somebody at least build this plz.
asciilifeform: even if no pogo.
trinque: asciilifeform: ben_vulpes and I shall shortly
asciilifeform: you will get a kernel image (also contains rootfs)
decimation: I'll try on my rhel6 vm
trinque: "hack night"
asciilifeform: neato
asciilifeform: the Gb ethernet, 3Gb/s sata, sd card, usb - work
asciilifeform: have not yet tested led or button.
asciilifeform: i also eliminated all the standard crud that kernel wants to have by default - support for usb hid, mice, keyboards, framebuffers, and anything whatsoever whose purpose i did not know
asciilifeform: gone.
asciilifeform: if i missed something - shoot it, don't hesitate
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33280 @ 0.00027739 = 9.2315 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: one little warning - 'buildroot' is dumb as a rock, you will have to 'make clean all' just about every time
asciilifeform: (every time you change anything)
asciilifeform: doesn't nuke the compiler though, iirc
asciilifeform: a rebuild is about 6 min. on my box.
mircea_popescu: Probably more. << i don't see wut more.
asciilifeform: for those who don't know - 'buildroot' does -not- use your local crossdev tooling, should you have any
asciilifeform: it builds own world.
mircea_popescu: trinque / ben_vulpes hack a uboot module while at it!
asciilifeform: ah and this thing builds uboot
asciilifeform: but i have not tested the one it makes
asciilifeform: i am using the one i made.
trinque: mircea_popescu: what should it do?
mircea_popescu: not necessarily one we'll use, just to get the hang of it
mircea_popescu: it should compile a pogo bitcoind
trinque: I installed uboot on my pogo already
mircea_popescu: nono.
mircea_popescu: bitcoind as ubut module
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i thought about this
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha!
trinque: interesting, I'll have to look into precisely what that'd mean
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it isn't a particularly great substitute for a unix, unfortunately
mircea_popescu: which is why i say trinque :)
trinque: lol
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform huge step forward from all the other people way in the back.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: missing any kind of i/o scheduler, or, more importantly, task slicer
asciilifeform: (scheduler)
asciilifeform: (bitcoind is threaded)
trinque: yeah we'll look at it
asciilifeform: or dos port would have been simple.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin is, but the pogo is single core neh ?
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: so then not THAT big of a deal
asciilifeform: this is roughly close in sweat level to an msdos port
trinque: I'm about certain this is beyond the scope of this evening or one six pack of beer
trinque: :D
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform who knows what whiz kidz come up with.
trinque: uboot is basically grub for this thing, yeah?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 110920 @ 0.00027739 = 30.7681 BTC [+]
mod6: <+asciilifeform> http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000074.html << congrats on the pogotron, ascii!
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1yogaSI )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i certainly intend to sit bitcoin down on the metal. on possibly even this machine. but will probably use ada's spark bare metal for it.
asciilifeform: and not today.
asciilifeform: trinque: sorta like grub.
mircea_popescu: wait, ada to compile a c environment ?!
asciilifeform: neh
asciilifeform: for the final solution.
mircea_popescu: yeah well, at the chestnut cafe, that.
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: trinque grub doesn't actually prep anything, just runs it
asciilifeform: grub does init surprisingly much
asciilifeform: (iirc it can even set up x64 mode if asked)
trinque: mircea_popescu: this is likely out of my league
asciilifeform: but grub is x86-centric
mircea_popescu: vacuum : http://36.media.tumblr.com/8bdec86fef97623cea1fe3104435453b/tumblr_n9bycls3rl1r5k682o1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1yogpxl )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i've never done that much with it.
trinque: when it comes to how it might poke storage, no idea
trinque: is there some way to bolt a program directly to a kernel?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'menstrual extraction' ?
trinque: seems like you end up with what asciilifeform already has
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i thinbk just plain weird.
mircea_popescu: trinque you could make it a kernel module
asciilifeform also considered this
asciilifeform did not like the lack of process separation inherent in it
asciilifeform: wedged bitcoind - wedged machine
asciilifeform has been thinking about this for a long time.
mircea_popescu: yeah it's not optimal, but he wanted to bolt it.
trinque: I'd have to do some reading before I'm sure what I'd want
mircea_popescu: nevertheless... eventually the only thing bitcoind can be is an os.
asciilifeform: aha.
asciilifeform: i'd go further
asciilifeform: ... a device.
mircea_popescu: i dunno i'd go for that
mircea_popescu: you may have to change it in a warzone.
asciilifeform: easy to swap device, no ?
mircea_popescu: no. because you don't have a fab.
mircea_popescu: making the code carved in stone is imo a bad move.
asciilifeform: i didn't say 'custom ic'
asciilifeform: i said 'device'
trinque: what's the derpiest unix like kernel this thing would build on?
mircea_popescu: then it's an os.
asciilifeform: as in, a box that isn't used for anything else.
mircea_popescu: oh. well that's what it being an os means he ?
asciilifeform: and custom si doesn't imply 'set in stone' necessarily
asciilifeform: could very easily be a bitcoind-optimized cpu arch.
asciilifeform: (with support for bounds checking and other adaisms)
mircea_popescu: that, sure.
asciilifeform: but this is for after the war.
mircea_popescu: once you got the os, optimize hw for it.
mircea_popescu: no, actually, this will be right in the middle of the war.
asciilifeform: if i make it to the middle - i do it. otherwise, trying to leave enough of a record here for the next fella.
mircea_popescu: in other news, lol! http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lu1z67hEqL1r5k682o1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1yoh2H4 )
asciilifeform: wat
asciilifeform: # uname -a
asciilifeform: Linux therealbitcoin 3.18.1-therealbitcoin.org #2 PREEMPT Sat Mar 28 22:09:20 EDT 2015 armv5tel GNU/Linux
asciilifeform: ^ is what you get if built correctly.
asciilifeform: with your date/time
trinque: asciilifeform: chewing through a gcc build atm, looks good so far
decimation: asciilifeform: sigh "../gnu/at-func.c: In function 'setxattrat': xattr-at.c:36:20: error: too few arguments to function 'setxattr' #define AT_FUNC_F1 setxattr" < I'm looking into it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 200518 @ 0.00026711 = 53.5604 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: decimation: what machine / gcc ?
nubbins`: <+asciilifeform> achtung, panzers! << woo!
asciilifeform: decimation: because this is a buildrootism and has nothing to do with me
nubbins`: <+cazalla> while i await danielpbarron's response, anyone want to suggest why the pogo flashes green after following his guide after a reboot? <<< i fucked up setting some of the fw_setenv parameters. you'll prolly need to serial into it, next time use fw_printenv to double check all your boot cmds before you commit
asciilifeform: you can printenv from uboot console
nubbins`: ^
asciilifeform: if you have serial port (or the netconsole thing set up)
asciilifeform: likewise setenv
asciilifeform: -and-
asciilifeform: saveenv
decimation: asciilifeform: it's gcc-4.6 on redhat
nubbins`: cazalla it was something like fw_setenv "boot_xyz='abc'" vs fw_setenv boot_xyz="abc"
asciilifeform: (yes, flashes changes from in itself)
decimation: shit no nevermind I was in the wrong terminal and accidently built on osx :)
nubbins`: saveenv wat? haha, i booted into debian to fw_setenv ;/
asciilifeform: anyway, the two most urgent items on the agenda for this thing are:
asciilifeform: 1) freezing the sourceballs in time
asciilifeform: (virginal buildroot loads them -from the net- and afaik does not check signatures)
asciilifeform: 2) study the package system. the dependencies of bitcoind would ideally be added as packages
mircea_popescu: well you can have it load form your local machine.
asciilifeform: (source packages. there are no other kinds in this)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: buildroot builds and uses own toolchain, in a kind of jail. so it is very convenient to have the whole thing build inside it
asciilifeform: and ultimately stronger, because nothing snarfed in from the os
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i mean, you can trivially make -from the net- = localhost
asciilifeform: aha that yes.
asciilifeform: is what i was speaking of.
mircea_popescu: or w/e convenient trusted host
mircea_popescu: if you wish to save the set you used and sign it, i'll host the lot
asciilifeform: the dl directory
asciilifeform: if it has a package, it won't load again
mircea_popescu: actually i suppose the correct thing would be to move the whole shebang on maillist
mircea_popescu: "packages so and so downloaded so and so "
asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/2K9GBR5.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1yohLb8 )
asciilifeform: ^ mine
mircea_popescu: sign and deed it.
mircea_popescu: including full paths would be good too
asciilifeform: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/2S1W3X0.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1yoi99B )
asciilifeform: ... ?
mircea_popescu: i think colon got taken out
mircea_popescu: !up deedbot-
asciilifeform: deedbot- http://dpaste.com/2S1W3X0.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1yoibOJ )
deedbot-: rejected: 1
asciilifeform: wat
mircea_popescu: lawl
mircea_popescu: trinque ^ ?
mircea_popescu: gpg: Good signature from "Stanislav Datskovskiy
asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000075.html
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1yoij0U )
asciilifeform: ^ thrown to mailinglist
mod6: is your key imported into the bot?
asciilifeform: wai wat
asciilifeform: i was supposed to -do- something ?
asciilifeform: beyond being in l1 ?
mircea_popescu: ah yes.
mircea_popescu: gotta import your key.
asciilifeform: syntax?
mircea_popescu: just link it to the bot
mod6: iirc i had to put my pubkey in a dpaste and then do something like `deedbot-: import <dpaste-url>`
asciilifeform: deedbot- http://www.loper-os.org/pgp.asc
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1G3Taic )
deedbot-: Bad URL or network outage.
asciilifeform: wat.
mircea_popescu: hm
asciilifeform: deedbot- http://dpaste.com/3VDY1C1.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1G3Tduy )
deedbot-: imported: 17215D118B7239507FAFED98B98228A001ABFFC7
asciilifeform: deedbot- http://dpaste.com/2S1W3X0.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1G3TfT8 )
deedbot-: accepted: 1
asciilifeform: there we go.
asciilifeform: it wants .txt
mircea_popescu: oh for crying out loud. yo trinque didntcha say you got rid of the url limiting thing ?
mircea_popescu: o is that what it is ?
asciilifeform: apparently.
mircea_popescu: aha k
trinque: lol
mircea_popescu: someone should write this likbez at some point. yo danielpbarron !
mircea_popescu: did you get wiki editing rights ? ☟︎
asciilifeform: Mem: 7748K used, 115328K free, 44K shrd, 0K buff, 2768K cached
asciilifeform: ^ some of the 7.7M is the kernel, but most is the ramdisk, which won't exist in the battlefield version
asciilifeform: thus we get almost the entire 128M to play with
asciilifeform: and using small machines becomes thinkable.
mircea_popescu: aha
asciilifeform: incidentally no reason not to do a rom-able x86 build at some point
asciilifeform: (great for eating as part of a balanced diet with linuxbios)
asciilifeform: (small machine, example, http://www.hootoo.com/hootoo-tripmate-nano-ht-tm02-wireless-portable-router.html )
assbot: Hootoo HT-TM02 Tripmate Nano ... ( http://bit.ly/1G3Twpf )
asciilifeform: (and see log.)
mircea_popescu: !s see log
assbot: 58 results for 'see log' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=see+log
mircea_popescu: notbad.
asciilifeform: this is almost linux as it was when it was a joy
asciilifeform: instead of chore
trinque: asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/23BB942.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1G3TL3B )
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 100 @ 0.0200566 = 2.0057 BTC [-] {6}
trinque: and I'm in via telnet
asciilifeform: (how come almost 8M? u-boot takes gzipped kernels, of course.)
trinque: because I'm a lazy fuck and copied the thing over that filename instead of updating uboot
asciilifeform: trinque: 'turdel' ? or you built with recipe
trinque: built with buildroot, ignore the filename
asciilifeform: congrats trinque !
trinque: I just copied it over what was already in the tftp dir
trinque: congrats to you!
trinque: I merely baked from the recipe
asciilifeform: now who'll be next.
asciilifeform: trinque: and now that you baked, read the patch. it will begin to make sense.
asciilifeform: just thinking,
asciilifeform: there was a time when folks would have -killed- for 128M.
asciilifeform: i remember saving to buy an 8M stick.
asciilifeform: for a year.
asciilifeform: and modern 'brogrammer' wipes his arse with it
decimation: asciilifeform: ok a legit build error "./scripts/Makefile.headersinst:55: *** Missing UAPI file ./include/uapi/linux/netfilter/xt_CONNMARK.h. Stop."
asciilifeform: nope.
decimation: seems like I am missing a kernel header
asciilifeform: or rather,
asciilifeform: what was building ?
asciilifeform: ('nope' as in, i did not patch anything remotely close to there)
decimation: ah, the linux 3.18.1 headers
decimation: yeah I'm not saying it was your fault
decimation: I'm running 2.6.32
asciilifeform: decimation: hash your manifest
asciilifeform: see earlier thread
asciilifeform: make sure it pulled down the same tarballs
decimation: k
trinque: asciilifeform: patch makes sense, and lol @ skull and crossbones around the telnet in inittab
asciilifeform: trinque: i like to mark code that folks can use to kill themselves, with it
asciilifeform: wherever i go
trinque: good practice
trinque wanders to hack night with pogoplug in tow
asciilifeform: having meatspace friends who program must be fun
mircea_popescu: he lives in a civilised part of teh country.
decimation: asciilifeform: is your manifest missing 'tar'?
decimation: otherwise everything appears to be there
asciilifeform: decimation: i think local tar ends up untarring things
asciilifeform: how else
asciilifeform: i mean, if you lacked tar,
asciilifeform: how would any of it untar
asciilifeform: ---
asciilifeform: and already found one small mistake
asciilifeform: dhcpd is built. we never use it
asciilifeform: (what we actually use is busybox's udhcpd)
asciilifeform: can be cut from the buildroot conf.
asciilifeform: ---
asciilifeform: i think i also forgot to build any mtd utils
decimation: I mean tar isn't on the manifest
asciilifeform: so can't hack uboot from inside this. yet.
asciilifeform: decimation: of course not. it never gets downloaded
asciilifeform: or, hm, does it
decimation: it's in /dl
asciilifeform: nope.
asciilifeform: i think we end up using busybox tar
asciilifeform: for the armv5 os, that is
asciilifeform: for the build, it uses local machine's tar.
asciilifeform: busybox, to those new to it, is a unix util userland in more or less 1 executable.
asciilifeform: (symlinked to the usual names)
asciilifeform: it is often found on routers, sex toys, miscellaneous embedded machinery
decimation: okay I think my build error is something to do with the shitty vm cross-mount filesystem and case sensitivity
asciilifeform: oh and another missing ingredient
asciilifeform: exercise for my readers!
asciilifeform: add an unprivileged user.
asciilifeform: you can do this with the file system overlay (see patch and readme) or using buildroot's spiffy user generator (can't help here, never tried)
asciilifeform: bitcoind probably ought to run as other than root.
asciilifeform: (see process separation discussion from earlier thread.)
decimation: 35deaa1d5bf822b74ea13928cb9621b03eafcdd5450c176928b4df72bf27ce64c0ed6c87ff46e3c2958313ffe99ff219c6458d8b82311f04fc5e85a01e3054bb dl/tar-1.28.cpio.gz
asciilifeform: decimation: interesting. no such thing on mine.
asciilifeform: decimation: are you sure you are building with the patch ?
decimation: yeah
decimation: I'll recreate
asciilifeform: odd then.
asciilifeform: someone will have to discover why.
decimation: ah I might have skipped the make pogoplug_defconfig setup
asciilifeform: aahahahaha.
decimation: ok I'm not building on crazy vm fs
decimation: apparently Arduino is self-destructing in a trademark lawsuit drama
asciilifeform: i can't help but think of 'aradruin' when i see it
asciilifeform: always.
asciilifeform: well, orodruin
asciilifeform: in the original.
[]bot: Bet placed: 5 BTC for No on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1120/ Odds: 12(Y):88(N) by coin, 14(Y):86(N) by weight. Total bet: 148.6676222 BTC. Current weight: 30,959.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63678 @ 0.00026891 = 17.1237 BTC [+]
decimation: hehe yeah it's kind of a dumb name
decimation: http://hackaday.com/2015/03/12/arduino-v-arduino-part-ii/
assbot: Arduino v Arduino: Part II | Hackaday ... ( http://bit.ly/1FY372i )
decimation: "In short, there are two companies calling themselves “Arduino” at the moment. One, Arduino LLC was founded by [Massimo Banzi], [David Cuartielles], [David Mellis], [Tom Igoe] and [Gianluca Martino] in 2009, runs the website arduino.cc, and has been directing and releasing the code that makes it all work. Most of these folks had been working together on what would become the Arduino project since as early as 2005."
asciilifeform: almost as good as apple v apple
decimation: "The other “Arduino” used to be called Smart Projects and was the manufacturing arm of the project founded and run by [Gianluca Martino]. Smart Projects changed their name to Arduino SRL in November 2014. (A “Società a responsabilità limitata” is one form of Italian limited-liability company.) They have been a major producer of Arduino boards from the very beginning and recently registered the domain arduino.org."
decimation: basically a group of 5 italians disagree about who should profit on the whole affair
decimation: the lesson perhaps being: don't use a microcontroller you can't find the vhdl for
decimation: http://opencores.org/project,cpu6502_true_cycle < lol can build "Apple ][+ SoC"
assbot: cpu6502_tc - R6502 Processor Soft Core with accurate timing :: Overview :: OpenCores ... ( http://bit.ly/1yomtpA )
[]bot: Bet placed: 3 BTC for No on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) to drop under $35 before June " http://bitbet.us/bet/1129/ Odds: 14(Y):86(N) by coin, 15(Y):85(N) by weight. Total bet: 9.8656096 BTC. Current weight: 80,118.
decimation: asciilifeform: okay it it successfully built on my gcc-4.6 rhel6 box
decimation: I can't test it, but there were no bad-looking warnings
decimation: with that I must retire
decimation: !down decimation
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12600 @ 0.00026758 = 3.3715 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101004 @ 0.00026648 = 26.9155 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2015#1078620 << i was just reading that
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 04:01:26; decimation: apparently Arduino is self-destructing in a trademark lawsuit drama
mircea_popescu: so here's an idle thought : one could import apple into the pogo, create an autovote application for 20 dollars a device
mircea_popescu: drive the chinese farms out of the business of creating fake "users" and "reviews" and whatnot for the sv bezzleworld.
ben_vulpes: aha
ben_vulpes: variable width text in irc!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68900 @ 0.0002617 = 18.0311 BTC [-] {2}
Chillum: monospaced for the win!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43840 @ 0.00026124 = 11.4528 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: for coding, sure
ben_vulpes: not for rapid reading.
ben_vulpes: muh wordshapes
ben_vulpes: Chillum: it bears mentioning that i use the same rendering stack for irc as i do for programming
mircea_popescu: i use monospace
Chillum: monospace for irc and programming
ben_vulpes: i'm experimenting.
ben_vulpes: stay away from me with your old-man-pinions
mircea_popescu: lolk
ben_vulpes: if they're good i'll get there on my own
ben_vulpes goes off to piss on fences
ben_vulpes: "is this one electrified?"
nubbins`: i use papyrus for programming and verdana for irc
nubbins`: LEL JK
mircea_popescu: you probably use comic with and comic sans
nubbins`: comic avec
nubbins`: get with the program
ben_vulpes: comic noir?
nubbins`: comic neue
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114881 @ 0.00026263 = 30.1712 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: actually too hammed to type, congrats alf, your likeness will be cast in bronze some day
mircea_popescu: comic nude and comic black
mircea_popescu: like stockings.
mircea_popescu: "you can make even bullet out of frozen shit - but for alf likeliness must use bronze!"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25487 @ 0.00026263 = 6.6937 BTC [+]
Chillum: wing dings'
Naphex: fluffypony: people can be total retards especially on reddit. And btcxchange.ro wasn't hacked! It was closed down by its bussiness owner like a retard.
Naphex: hi o/
ben_vulpes: hi Naphex
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "BTC price at or over $777 before Sept 21st 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1079/ Odds: 23(Y):77(N) by coin, 30(Y):70(N) by weight. Total bet: 2.74861989 BTC. Current weight: 58,858.
fluffypony: Naphex: they're retarded
mircea_popescu: yo Naphex
mircea_popescu: how's the meat trade ?
Naphex: mircea_popescu going good. going into pre-registers while using the amount of time left to polish :D
mircea_popescu: i was gonna send that indian chick your way but then you weren't online
Naphex: no worries. had to switch servers and DC's
mircea_popescu: oh ?
Naphex: i tried out some BTC provider and they had a stupid rule of cutting the upstream when you get more then 65k packets/s
Naphex: lol
Naphex: so i just stopped the contract and moved to a normal DC
mircea_popescu: prolly some reseller.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22650 @ 0.00026217 = 5.9382 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: you really wanna colocate for stuff like that
Naphex: yeah fixed. was a failed attempt to try to get a staging env faster
mircea_popescu: no rush anyway. cunt's not going anywhere.
Naphex: mircea_popescu: http://xotika.tv
assbot: XOtika.TV: Bitcoin adult live streaming community. ... ( http://bit.ly/1NqfXWd )
Naphex: went into pre-registering and some pub. pretty good so far
Naphex: 100+ regs
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell indiancandy1 talk to naphex, he's launching a new site. http://xotika.tv
assbot: XOtika.TV: Bitcoin adult live streaming community. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nqg1VR )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
Naphex: we'll also have product presentation and some other fun stuff at http://www.awsummit.com/ro/ ;p
assbot: AWSummit - Cel mai mare summit de videochat ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nqg7wJ )
mircea_popescu: uh. what's this, aro rip of aws ?!
mircea_popescu: oddly, no tits.
mircea_popescu: platinum eh ? wd.
Naphex: gotta hit em high :P
mircea_popescu: ahaha "luxuriate yourself"
mircea_popescu: epic.
Naphex: :D
[]bot: Bet created: "Bitcoin to drop under $150 before July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1133/
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "Bitcoin to drop under $150 before July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1133/ Odds: 94(Y):6(N) by coin, 94(Y):6(N) by weight. Total bet: 1.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,997.
[]bot: Bet placed: 9 BTC for No on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1120/ Odds: 11(Y):89(N) by coin, 14(Y):86(N) by weight. Total bet: 157.6676222 BTC. Current weight: 30,686.
[]bot: Bet placed: 5 BTC for No on "BTC to top $413 before Songkran" http://bitbet.us/bet/1122/ Odds: 10(Y):90(N) by coin, 13(Y):87(N) by weight. Total bet: 33.07364715 BTC. Current weight: 22,066.
[]bot: Bet placed: 15 BTC for No on "BTC to top $700 before 1st July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1128/ Odds: 11(Y):89(N) by coin, 11(Y):89(N) by weight. Total bet: 128.96264834 BTC. Current weight: 78,425.
[]bot: Bet placed: 10 BTC for No on "The Winkdex: BTC $5000 or more in 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1104/ Odds: 9(Y):91(N) by coin, 9(Y):91(N) by weight. Total bet: 113.1868 BTC. Current weight: 77,122.
mircea_popescu: !up rotarydialer
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 112958 @ 0.00026535 = 29.9734 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18342 @ 0.00027119 = 4.9742 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 387 @ 0.02 = 7.74 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68408 @ 0.00026949 = 18.4353 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 214925 @ 0.00027336 = 58.7519 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2015#1078206 yes, that was the joke :) ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 00:34:21; mod6: <+jurov> my mom was using "husqvarna" << they make my favorite chainsaws / best chainsaws imho
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39360 @ 0.00027718 = 10.9098 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70500 @ 0.00027755 = 19.5673 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 275040 @ 0.00028098 = 77.2807 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65200 @ 0.00026672 = 17.3901 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62094 @ 0.00027509 = 17.0814 BTC [+]
Adlai: !s ada examples
assbot: 1 results for 'ada examples' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ada+examples
nubbins`: re: freezing buildroot config in time
nubbins`: "The various tarballs that are downloaded by Buildroot are all stored in BR2_DL_DIR, which by default is the dl directory. If you want to keep a complete version of Buildroot which is known to be working with the associated tarballs, you can make a copy of this directory. This will allow you to regenerate the toolchain and the target filesystem with exactly the same versions."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100200 @ 0.00027464 = 27.5189 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11200 @ 0.0002812 = 3.1494 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99750 @ 0.00027432 = 27.3634 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21400 @ 0.00027278 = 5.8375 BTC [-]
Chillum: Good morning
nubbins`: hi
nubbins`: although technically afternoon here
Chillum: well it is technically morning here
Chillum: too early even
Chillum goes to make coffee
asciilifeform: nubbins`: all stored in BR2_DL_DIR << we got this last night, yes
asciilifeform: nubbins`: i posted sha512's for my set, also.
asciilifeform: (see log)
nubbins`: beaut
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 400 @ 0.00332811 = 1.3312 BTC [-]
nubbins`: gonna cave and set up a gentoo install on usb stick here later today
asciilifeform: nubbins`: gentoo for what
nubbins`: macbook
nubbins`: bbl!
asciilifeform: found a few other minor omissions in the build
asciilifeform: vgaarb is enabled (there is no vga, naturally) - missed this in the cleanup
asciilifeform: also need to set mac address of the nic
asciilifeform: otherwise all pogos will have the same one (it is not stored in any kind of nonvolatile memory)
asciilifeform: i will suggest that all subsequent patches for buildroot per se, be published as diffs from the one i posted last night
asciilifeform: rather than a mega-turd each, if diffing from a virginal buildroot
asciilifeform: did we ever get anywhere in the ntp-or-not debate ?
asciilifeform: i did not include ntp
asciilifeform: but the result is that the machine time is epoch 0 on boot.
asciilifeform: (clock does run monotonically after boot)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81850 @ 0.000262 = 21.4447 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: http://cryptome.org/2015/03/merrill-019.pdf << interesting re: 'national security letters'
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IaezFl )
Chillum: I don't trust pdfs, so many vulnerabilities in the past
Chillum: not on this computer at least ;)
asciilifeform: Chillum: if you own a machine used specifically for executing malware, very convenient for this purpose.
Chillum: I have a live cd and a laptop with no other storage I use for such things
Chillum: read only cd-rom!
Chillum: I also use open wifi near my place so I don't expose my netwrok
Chillum: I have seen sniffing software installed on routers before
Chillum: they can go from your malware friendly computer, root your router and live there between you and the internet
jurov: why so few nerds set up their own linux router?
Chillum: openwrt can be rooted too, particularly from the internal network
Chillum: much harder though
jurov: how?
Chillum: If I told everyone it would get patched
jurov: i can understnd if you have old samba open or so
mats: ...lol
Chillum: hint: look at past reoccurring vulnerabilities that have been fixed and keep coming back
Chillum: regression is a bitch
Chillum: hacking routers is good practice. They don't fight back
Chillum designs a router that fights back!
punkman: I looked into something that'd replace my modem/router but it seems I'll have to build a mini-itx or something
jurov: miniitx is dandy
Chillum: Routers are a sad state of affair. Something like 70% of consumer wifi routers in the wild are vulnerable to heartbleed
Chillum: it is the linux box that nobody upgrades!
mats: buy an edgerouter lite and tell your isp to send you a plain ol modem
Chillum: most run arch linux under the hood, often about 10 years old
jurov: that's why nerds should maintain them themselves, and i don't mean reflash openwrt and forget
mats: thats not true at all
Chillum: just based off what I have seen in the wild around here
jurov: czechs took the router problem to their own hands: https://www.turris.cz/en/
assbot: Home :: Project:Turris ... ( http://bit.ly/1IalIpf )
Chillum: I sort of want to make a portable rasp-pi that automatically roots and then secures wifi routers, as a public service
jurov: "secures" how?
Chillum: erase the eprom
jurov: haha
Chillum: gotta fail in a safe mode after all
jurov: will get replaces with just different turd
jurov: *replaced
Chillum: there is always another turd around the corner, it is the circle of life
nubbins`: <+Chillum> If I told everyone it would get patched <<< lel
punkman: "if you see something, say something" :P
Chillum: "snitches get stitches"
Chillum: lol
oglafbot: http://oglaf.com/cyrano/
assbot: Cyrano ... ( http://bit.ly/1IapoHE )
asciilifeform: <Chillum> Routers are a sad state of affair. Something like 70% of consumer wifi routers in the wild are vulnerable to heartbleed << and a fella who knows this, is still fond of ssl ? amazing
Chillum: let it go
asciilifeform: no.
Chillum: most protocols have had a vulnerability at some point. Heartbleed was a bug in openssl, not a bug in ssl
mats: lol
Chillum: implementation vs protocol
asciilifeform: Chillum: i'm not certain that any of the #b-a regulars believe it to have been a bug.
asciilifeform: i very much do not.
Chillum: okay, gub'mint backdoor then
Chillum: the math is solid regardless of implementation failures/sabotage
Chillum: until quantum computers are a thing
jurov: ssl spec is too complicated, hence inevitably buggy implementations
asciilifeform: it is rather like pointing to a grain of sand in a turd, and advocating shit as a construction material because 'that grain is solid'
Chillum: okay, ssl sucks
Chillum: sure
mats: !gettrust Chillum
assbot: Trust relationship from user mats to user Chillum: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/mats/Chillum | http://w.b-a.link/user/Chillum
Chillum: what about TLS?
Chillum: if you take out key management and such, how do you feel about the actual crypto?
asciilifeform: the actual crypto is buried at the far bottom of a deep, deep tank of liquid shit.
Chillum: a lot of routers don't even use SSL
asciilifeform: Chillum: if it has a www configurator of any kind, it's consumer garbage
asciilifeform: adult router is configured over a dedicated serial port
Chillum: the whole hierarchy of trust used to issue certs is of course bunk
chetty: <Chillum> the whole hierarchy of trust used to issue certs is of course bunk// for some reason when I read that I wondered if anyone would trust a cert issued by Obama? If not why would you accept one from any 'lesser' authority in the same chain?
asciilifeform: ^
Chillum: I generally sign my own keys based on my own master cert
Chillum: you don't have to put verisign at the top
asciilifeform: Chillum: i take it you are the only one accessing the systems in question ?
asciilifeform: Chillum: if so, why not stick to the considerably less dysfunctional ssh ?
Chillum: it would be a way to go
Chillum: though not with port forwarding
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 126250 @ 0.00025871 = 32.6621 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73000 @ 0.00025826 = 18.853 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: trinque ERROR: unknown (Most likely my bitcoind stopped working or this page is too large/complex.) < ?
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2015#1078726 << til jurov has a favourite... chainsaw ?!
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 11:21:32; jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2015#1078206 yes, that was the joke :)
mircea_popescu: scary shit, dude.
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2015#1078759 << lol, just randomize it. o... wait...
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 15:45:38; asciilifeform: otherwise all pogos will have the same one (it is not stored in any kind of nonvolatile memory)
mircea_popescu: ahaha
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: many folks use mac addrs in routing tables
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2015#1078762 << i dun recall it ever being a debate, vast consensus against it.
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 15:48:55; asciilifeform: did we ever get anywhere in the ntp-or-not debate ?
asciilifeform: incidentally, the upnp demon will need to be thrown in
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no i know, i was just amused at ther possible solutions :D
asciilifeform: at least in the civilian version
asciilifeform: i am very much against allowing it into bitcoind per se
asciilifeform: let it run as own user.
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2015#1078769 << check it out ? neither do we. ongoing bitchfest about "pls to convert" scattered in logs.
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 15:59:56; Chillum: I don't trust pdfs, so many vulnerabilities in the past
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform allowing who into bitcoind ?
asciilifeform: upnp buggerer
asciilifeform: you know, that one
asciilifeform: that opens ports on crapsumer routers
mircea_popescu: make a unpnp user ? sorta like apache's, "nobody" ? :D
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: i dun't see why not. "numbnuts" ?
asciilifeform: thing is, this is a little more complicated than appears
asciilifeform: because it needs to know when it must attempt upnp and when not
Chillum: you can open ports on a lot of routers by using ajax to make a http post that looks like IRC commands
Chillum: its a feature!
mircea_popescu: Chillum hm ?
asciilifeform: the traditional bitcoind (see code) asked a peer to attempt connect-back on 8333
Chillum: some routers automatically open a port when they see a DCC command on sent from an internal computer on an IRC port
asciilifeform: Chillum is speaking of a 'pheature' found on particularly imbecilic consumer routers
Chillum: javascript can induce a browser to send a post that tricks the router into thinking it is that
asciilifeform: circa '00-'05
mircea_popescu: Chillum ah yes, that. but this wouldn't really be a browser anyway.
mircea_popescu: it does speak of the ancient and great power of the irc, tho.
Chillum: auto port-forwarding is almost always a bad idea
mircea_popescu: something the imbecillians (is it ok if i refer to people born in the 80s as the imbecillians, given the poor results discussed yest ? generation y seems improper) all forgot.
asciilifeform circa '80s but does not object to this
mircea_popescu: lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80200 @ 0.00026049 = 20.8913 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2015#1078784 << this is actually exactly how a living is earned in this space.
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 16:19:20; Chillum: hint: look at past reoccurring vulnerabilities that have been fixed and keep coming back
mircea_popescu: you don't have to be a genius and read machine code to find new holes. that's for alfs.
mircea_popescu: what you do is, you look for zombies. all it takes is a good archive of vulns and a working grep. then you take your chances.
mircea_popescu: it's better yield than spam, that's for sure.
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2015#1078811 << ahaha, duuuude...
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 16:41:45; oglafbot: http://oglaf.com/cyrano/
mircea_popescu: it occurs to me... don't these dating speshulists sound very much like the classical shaman ? "you are under a terrible dark curse kind sir" "i will fix it".
asciilifeform: .... aaaaand...
asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000076.html
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ElPEkl )
asciilifeform: Pogotron v2.
mircea_popescu: if placebo works, get paid. if it doesn't... "some DARKER force than my powers..."
mircea_popescu: o hai pogotron!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 300750 @ 0.0002724 = 81.9243 BTC [+] {6}
jurov: hahaha so the husqvarna joke works well
asciilifeform: this one isn't as neat as it sounds. i thought BR_PACKAGE_UBOOT_TOOLS will add with fw_xxxxx on the target rootfs but seems like no. these will have to be added as packages
jurov: even if i wrote it was *not* one
asciilifeform: what i wanted to do was to build something suitable for reflashing into virginal pogos for dev work
asciilifeform: but this is not -quite- it.
asciilifeform: it -does- contain nandread and nandwrite.
mircea_popescu: hm.
asciilifeform: still built as monolithic kernel with rootfs-in-ram, deliberately
asciilifeform: but anyone who wants to, -can- flash this into nand in place of existing kernel
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2015#1078817 << heartbleed was a bug in PKI. outright.
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 16:49:24; Chillum: most protocols have had a vulnerability at some point. Heartbleed was a bug in openssl, not a bug in ssl
asciilifeform: and it'll boot.
asciilifeform: and you can upgrade from inside it
mircea_popescu: the bug in pki is that any system designed or proposed by any party other than us is security poison.
asciilifeform: ^
asciilifeform: 'кто не с нами тот против нас' (TM)
mircea_popescu: a cognate of any claim to authority on any matter not deriving from la serenissima is both fraudulent and actionable.
asciilifeform: b94fb4736e0fa1394784d1139fe8262df450bb945c846e6bd1eda70d2c55679ccf8b7679e08c10d00aaf3dbebf9245875f3001654cf48ce5d1ac4e3c0cffce84 turdel_latest.gz
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/turdel_latest.gz
asciilifeform: ^ what comes out after v2 patch.
asciilifeform: ^ this can replace arch and debian now, which folks have been using
asciilifeform: if you copy the uboot tools to a writable external disk
asciilifeform: nand - can be operated from inside this turdel.
asciilifeform: can safely toss the pieces of shit with systemd, etc. now.
ben_vulpes: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 244.16, Best ask: 244.2, Bid-ask spread: 0.04000, Last trade: 244.16, 24 hour volume: 27528.99649606, 24 hour low: 238.89, 24 hour high: 254.49, 24 hour vwap: None
asciilifeform: incidentally, the uboot fw_xxxx tools are very simple:
mats: ;;market buy 15000
asciilifeform: the config thing lives at a certain offset (forget where) in mtd0
gribble: Bitfinex | A market order to buy 15000 bitcoins right now would take 4130303.4623 USD and would take the last price up to 344.9000 USD, resulting in an average price of 275.3536 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 0.0044 seconds
asciilifeform: where uboot lives
asciilifeform: the fw_printenv thing simply dumps the text found therein
asciilifeform: fw_setenv reflashes those blocks to hold new text
mats: ;;market buy --market bitstamp 15000
gribble: Bitstamp | This order would exceed the size of the order book. You would buy 10726.054 bitcoins, for a total of 12929272.3986 USD and take the price to 99999.0000. | Data vintage: 0.0557 seconds
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2015#1078823 << there's no math behind either ssl or pki, or the usg for that matter. they are political arrangements, "sets of procedures and people" and whatnot.
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 16:50:28; Chillum: the math is solid regardless of implementation failures/sabotage
asciilifeform: ^ so in principle these can be reimplemented with the nand tools i have included. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: they just happen to be the wrong policies by the wrong people for the wrong purposes is all.
mats: ;;market buy --market btcchina 15000
gribble: BTCChina | This order would exceed the size of the order book. You would buy 9299.7167 bitcoins, for a total of 648197043008.7280 USD and take the price to 16100000000000.0000. | Data vintage: 0.0283 seconds
Chillum: are you arguing with a recording of me?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i think he was speaking of rsa per se
Chillum: lol
mircea_popescu: Chillum i'm just going through the logs. pretty much everyone here reads the whole shebang.
Chillum: okay
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform rsa per se is not even really involved in all this o.O
mircea_popescu: i thought most certs were ecdsa
asciilifeform: Chillum: we routinely 'argue with recordings' of one another. this is how #b-a folk handle the fact that not everyone lives at his computer
Chillum: fair enough
mircea_popescu: permanent log online + gribble ;;later tell for noobs - > wunderbar system of thought management.
mircea_popescu: which is what the forum oughta be.
Adlai is amazed that any channels survive with "no public logs" policies
Chillum: a scrap of permanence in an impermanent universe
mircea_popescu: have you seen the content ?
asciilifeform: Adlai: kindergartens and mental asylums also, afaik, don't keep logs
asciilifeform: yet survive.
mircea_popescu: exactly this.
mircea_popescu: i participated in a bdsm chan for a few days, it was painful.
Adlai: generally the participants of such institutions only attend due to coercion, whether physical or implied
mircea_popescu: 90% of lines were "hello x", 90% of the remainder "so how's it going". maybe 1 in 4 hello-handshakes succeeded, and less than 1 in 100 went past 2nd pass.
mircea_popescu: the general depth of conversation mirrored quite exactly the office.
mircea_popescu: Adlai stupidity is coercitive, wheter obviously so or not.
chetty: <mircea_popescu> 90% of lines were "hello x", 90% of the remainder "so how's it going". maybe 1 in 4 hello-handshakes succeeded, and less than 1 in 100 went past 2nd pass.//roughly matching avg. attention spans
mircea_popescu: quite.
mircea_popescu: leaving us to wonder whether the stupid tools drive the stupidity of the people, or stem from the stupidity of the people involved.
mircea_popescu: "is luser luser because on windoze, or is on windoze because luser ?"
Adlai: symbiotic convergence idiocy
mircea_popescu: this should be a term of art.
mircea_popescu: and i mean... the fact that us young adults score worse than anyone else is not a direct product. they worked to get there : the school's so dumb, why learn ; the kids aren't learning anyway why not make it dumber... 30 years later in this process the fucking mit grads can't make a flashlight
mircea_popescu: they ALL own fleshlights tho.
Adlai: Made in China™
mircea_popescu: well yeah. some patriarchy somewhere.
Adlai: s/i/oniz/
mircea_popescu: umm... patronizarchy ?
Adlai: yeh, rule by the patrons. those who can afford to patronize, as opposed to - serfs
mircea_popescu: if this worked teh us'd be numero uno.
mircea_popescu: rule by dude farmer is not functionable sadly.
Adlai: last i checked, farmer = serf
mircea_popescu: dude farmer is a term of art from back in the day the us mattered.
mircea_popescu: ie, rich guy back east, went west to start a farm, sucked at it.
nubbins`: <+asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: many folks use mac addrs in routing tables <<< this
Adlai: doesn't sound like a Patron of the Arts to me
mircea_popescu: patron-client relationship is what i tought you meant, off the ancient post-imperial and late-imperial model.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: "is luser luser because on windoze, << the older version of this was, iirc, 'do styes make pigs' ?
mircea_popescu: but anyway, even wioth the arts, the distinction holds : the patron has no particular taste, merely money and friends.
nubbins`: <+Chillum> you can open ports on a lot of routers by using ajax to make a http post that looks like IRC commands <<< this is actually how you root the pogo without attaching a serial cable
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but there is genetic indication of suinity.
asciilifeform: 30 years later in this process the fucking mit grads can't make a flashlight << aha
asciilifeform: !s flashlight
assbot: 32 results for 'flashlight' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=flashlight
asciilifeform: l0l where did it go
Chillum: nubbins`: neat, I assume you open the telnet port?
asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ve23i5K334
assbot: MIT genuises with lightbulb - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1CzOqQj )
asciilifeform: ^^^
asciilifeform: Chillum: stock pogo comes with 'dropbear', a miniature sshd
Chillum: so you open the port to ssh, but how do you get root?
mircea_popescu: it really is a great montage that, what with the bovine derping about how "we ARE" etc.
Chillum: same password on each one?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i can think of an alternate hypothesis about the flashlight thing
mircea_popescu: probably a few, including videofraud . but tell ?
asciilifeform: 'I have had a chance to observe quite a few companies in the U.S. from the inside, and have spotted a certain constancy in the staffing profile. At the top, there is a group of highly compensated senior lunch-eaters. They tend to spend all of their time pleasing each other in various ways, big and small. They often hold advanced degrees in disciplines such as Technical Schmoozing and Relativistic Bean-counting. They are obsess
asciilifeform: ive on the subject of money, and cultivate a posh country set atmosphere, even if they are just one generation out of the coal mines. Ask them to solve a technical problem — and they will politely demur, often taking the opportunity to flash their wit with a self-deprecating joke or two. ... The natives at the top always try to standardize the job descriptions and lower the pay scale of the immigrants at the bottom, playing
asciilifeform: them against each other, while trying to portray themselves as super-achieving entrepreneurial mavericks who can't be pinned down to a mere set of marketable skills.'
asciilifeform: from orlov's 'lessons' ( http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/062805_soviet_lessons_part2.shtml )
assbot: Post-Soviet Lessons for a Post-American Century Part II ... ( http://bit.ly/1CzOOy9 )
asciilifeform: it is 'declasse' to admit that you can make a flashlight, at a 'sprezzatura' wankfest
mircea_popescu: this works a lot better if you can actually code.
mircea_popescu: dude, you're telling me that first jew boy with the rolling eyes and the slow repeating the task is putting out an act ?
nubbins`: <+Chillum> are you arguing with a recording of me? <<< heh.
mircea_popescu: as in "of course i could but i wonder how this woman is trying to trick me" ?
asciilifeform: can't say for sure. but entirely possible
Chillum: nubbins`: technology!
mircea_popescu: if he could act that well i'd know his name.
nubbins`: :D
mircea_popescu: srsly now. this theory of yours would be perhaps appealing had i not spent any time on a set.
mircea_popescu: but i have, and i tell you... people who can act are RARE.
nubbins`: Chillum: a stock pogo will spread cheeks thusly: curl -k "https://root:ceadmin@[PogoplugIPAddress]/sqdiag/HBPlug?action=command&command=dropbear%20start";
nubbins`: and yes, same root pw on each one :o
mircea_popescu: not, "superhot blonde rare". that's 1 in 100. people who can act are in 1 in 10k
asciilifeform: does sprezzatura really call for top-notch general-purpose acting skill ?
mircea_popescu: and THEN they can only act in "certain spaces".
mircea_popescu: yes, to the degree it'd be depicted there, this man is an oscar winner.
Chillum: nubbins`: wow, what a slutty device
nubbins`: inorite.
mircea_popescu: go through webcasts to see how people deal with this normally.
nubbins`: there's also a built-in "request unlock from pogo" thing
nubbins`: think iphone unlock
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform notice : no snicker. for instance.
nubbins`: and then there's serial :D
asciilifeform: nubbins`: notice how nobody here bothered with the 'request unlock' thing or even knows if it ever worked ☟︎
asciilifeform: because wtf why
Chillum: I think that sometimes companies intentionally make their devices rootable because they know hobbyists will buy boxes of them if they can root it
mircea_popescu: ^ Chillum this makes sense, and it's why this is probably happening here
asciilifeform: Chillum: this particular item is an oddity in this regard, because it is very clearly a loss-leader
nubbins`: asciilifeform i tried it with one of my pogos
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, ironically, this item was bought as a loss leader, and so, it would specifically NOT be wanted to be used this way.
asciilifeform: (priced substantially below cost, in all likelihood)
mircea_popescu: my explanation is that because of the standardization of everything, the makers just made them "as they're made" ie prevailing bs (business standards) and the buyers bought and marketed them "As they're marketed"
nubbins`: asciilifeform you log into website, "activate" pogo, then can enable ssh login via website
mircea_popescu: resulting in a transfer of value from the dudes to us.
nubbins`: it's about as gaping as it sounds
nubbins`: TBH i think they did include rootability as a hobbyist bonus, AND they made way, way too many
asciilifeform: it is interesting that the actual contents of the can has been shrinking continuously over the years
mircea_popescu: nubbins` we can now just capture the packets and "activate" any pogo anywhere on the basis of another pogo can't we.
Chillum: they should just have a physical "root access" switch on the box. Leaving backdoors for people to find is reckless
nubbins`: these were probably dumped to the surplus people en masse 4 years ago
asciilifeform: for instance, there was at one point a pogo entirely like this one but 256M.
asciilifeform: same cost.
mircea_popescu: Chillum amusingly this is what asciilifeform wanted to do.
asciilifeform: and, the successor to this (out of print) machine is quite similar but no sata.
nubbins`: maybe just no sata connector 8)
mircea_popescu: lol
asciilifeform: nubbins`: that one is gone too
asciilifeform: nubbins`: speaking of 'pink pogo' here
nubbins`: ah
nubbins` owns a synth that has MIDI in/out capabilities baked into cpu, but mfg didn't waste the extra $2 on MIDI ports
asciilifeform: this is rather reminiscent of how the famous linksys wrt54g hyper-bestseller slowly shrank and shrank, from 16 and then 8 and then 4 (even 2!) MB of ram, linux could no longer be used on it
asciilifeform: and the product faded away
mircea_popescu: i had one of those
asciilifeform: -everyone- has one of those
nubbins`: open the thing up, wire up a couple resistors and DIN5 jacks, and you've got a full-featured midi voice
asciilifeform: in a cellar somewhere
mircea_popescu: sysadmin at the time was "you don't buy "a router". write this down : linksys wrt54g"
asciilifeform: they actually re-issued it a few yrs back
asciilifeform: as a commemorative edition, somethinglikethat
mircea_popescu: this was long long ago
nubbins`: http://midiot.net/mods.JPG
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CzPRyc )
nubbins`: ^ a monotribe taking advantage of several interesting patch points
asciilifeform: when i ran across the 2MB linksys, my thought was 'linux is obese if can't fit in 2MB'
asciilifeform: not 'damned linksys cheated us'
nubbins`: https://synablogi.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/monotribe_hacking_6.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CzQ3xl )
nubbins`: ^ look how clearly they marked the pads
nubbins`: modder's dream
mircea_popescu: btw, speaking of guilds : they actually survive to an amazing extent. outfitters in canada for a very good example.
nubbins`: here's a hot mess i made from a pocket-size synth, alongside original unit for reference
nubbins`: http://imgur.com/raHz5bm
assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1CzR1d3 )
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2015#1078838 << amusingly enough, i would.
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 17:03:51; chetty: <Chillum> the whole hierarchy of trust used to issue certs is of course bunk// for some reason when I read that I wondered if anyone would trust a cert issued by Obama? If not why would you accept one from any 'lesser' authority in the same chain?
mircea_popescu: which is why the original "get in the wot" discussion with the sec.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` going for that entire asic miner look ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you'd probably end up rating him '-11111 does not have sole control of private key'
mircea_popescu: end up, yes.
mircea_popescu: not likely start up tho.
mircea_popescu: rule of law is a process after all.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu HEH. the first and last time i used test-lead wires for a permanent project.
nubbins`: dat torque
nubbins`: http://imgur.com/I6ZwIV4 << all closed up
assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1CzRBaP )
nubbins`: butchered the poor enclosure, but hey.
nubbins`: call it a v0.1
asciilifeform off to meatspace for a spell. wants to hear if anyone tests v2 patch.
nubbins`: http://www.korg-datastorage.jp/Manual/monotron_sch.pdf
nubbins`: THIS is how you make electronic music :o
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60840 @ 0.0002763 = 16.8101 BTC [+]
nubbins`: can't test patch just yet but new turdel_latest boots a-ok here
nubbins`: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=9brn8y5w
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CzSNLo )
mod6: is mpexbot still a thing?
mircea_popescu: seems not. fabian's not been answering anything for a while.
mod6: oh its empyex now
mod6: ah, ok.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67800 @ 0.00025809 = 17.4985 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62200 @ 0.00026179 = 16.2833 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: incidentally asciilifeform, what would you say is the difference between orlov as quoted and the fiction of the "imperialist burgeois" as classically described (1890s, even) ?
mircea_popescu: are we just replaying the october revolution over here, that's the vision ?
mircea_popescu: amusingly enough, https://defendtrotskyism.wordpress.com/defend-assange-against-imperialist-bourgeois-assault-but-continue-fight-against-sexism/
assbot: Defend Assange against Imperialist Bourgeois assault but continue fight against Sexism! | defendtrotskyism ... ( http://bit.ly/1BIxT90 )
mircea_popescu: ie, every false prophet to date is looking upon the same sky, and will readily interpret whatever happens there in whatever terms they figure would make them look least like an idiot.
jurov: wtf "The following USE changes are necessary to proceed:"
jurov: and 1000 lines adding abi_x86_32 to everything
jurov: wow gentoo. such joy.
trinque: +mircea_popescu | trinque ERROR: unknown (Most likely my bitcoind stopped working or this page is too large/complex.) < ? < what did that come from?
mircea_popescu: https://blockexplorer.com/address/1gtQEh8TVk6Pie2Ba6yYoSokaUvDdKpLT
assbot: blockexplorer.com | 521: Web server is down ... ( http://bit.ly/1D948m1 )
trinque: mircea_popescu: ah that's not my site; have a blockchain viewer site that you like?
mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/0JE6B89 <
assbot: dpaste: 0JE6B89 ... ( http://bit.ly/1D94rxi )
mircea_popescu: ugh
mircea_popescu: shit. i was just trying to look at a bundle
mircea_popescu: who is blockexplorer.com anyway, your thing ?
trinque: https://blockchain.info/address/1gtQEh8TVk6Pie2Ba6yYoSokaUvDdKpLT << it went out
assbot: Bitcoin Address 1gtQEh8TVk6Pie2Ba6yYoSokaUvDdKpLT ... ( http://bit.ly/1D94Uj9 )
trinque: mircea_popescu: nah, block explorer is not miine
mircea_popescu: then don't link it
mircea_popescu: for this exact reason.
mircea_popescu: people wanna explore an address or block, let them do it themselves.
trinque: fine by me
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24874 @ 0.00025784 = 6.4135 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: blockexplorer is Thermos's thing
thestringpuller: unless he sold it recently
jurov: iirc bitstamp bought it?
jurov: nah that was blockr
jurov: http://atc.blockr.io/ lmao still going?
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IbyFPH )
thestringpuller: LOL
ben_vulpes: afternoon, funkenstein_
funkenstein_: howdy ben_vulpes
funkenstein_: speaking of block explorers, here's an interesting one showing some exploit or another http://blockexperts.com/ilt/height/50894
assbot: Intellect Block #50894 ... ( http://bit.ly/1IbEHQb )
funkenstein_: what is this ATC stuff
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26126 @ 0.00025856 = 6.7551 BTC [+]
jurov: !s therealaltcoin
assbot: 21 results for 'therealaltcoin' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=therealaltcoin
jurov: was fun till it lasted
nubbins`: heh
Adlai: jurov: doesn't blockr belong to d.cbse?
jurov: d.bstp, d.cbse, i dont see any difference
Adlai: well one of them at least invented its own name
Adlai: coinbase, blockchain, next up they'll just use magic numbers. oh wait
jurov 's looking forward to exchange named "turdatron" or "orphanburner"
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ was the alt coin for a while.
Adlai: what's up with logs, have we built the moon cabin yet?
mircea_popescu: hm ?
Adlai: logs as in arithmic distribution curve
Adlai: !s logs
assbot: 1501 results for 'logs' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=logs
Adlai: hmm i guess this word is overloaded now
funkenstein_: Adlai, nice log cabin on moon
Adlai: :D
funkenstein_: you like harmonic series?
Adlai: !s from:adlai music
assbot: 5 results for 'from:adlai music' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Aadlai+music
funkenstein_: speaking of music i was thinking of writing an encoding embedding a bitcoin address in audio
Adlai was thinking of learning to do EC math in his head, which at least has practical use
funkenstein_: you would definitely win
Adlai: well, it's useless without mental hashing, but together they are unstoppable
Adlai: the first step is obviously relearning all of mathematics in tonal
funkenstein_: why no paper?
Adlai: speciesism, i don't trust cells that have fewer than nine nines of dna in common with me
funkenstein_: even if they are in WOT?
Adlai: all music is folk music, i ain't never seen a horse in the wot
funkenstein_: if your recorded music is playing, my phone will be like "shall we send a millie to Adlai?"
Adlai: ahhh so you're talking about watermarking an address into audio
funkenstein_: yeah
Adlai: tbh it's probably easier to have an artist address registry, and lookup the artist using some shazaam-ish thingy
Adlai: if we're talking about practical ideas :P
jurov: Adlai: how does tonal slleviate the need to do hundreds of thousands of steps computing EC sigs?
jurov: *alleviate
Adlai: jurov: makes it easier to deal with bit/byte-based operations
Adlai: doesn't reduce the total number, but fuck using decimal for sha256
funkenstein_: use hex like what's his name did one round on paper
punkman: http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11424037
assbot: A court case so secret, US Govt says it can't go on ... ( http://bit.ly/1He3xib )
nubbins`: sooo, just went to corner store.
nubbins`: http://imgur.com/tkqh4qn
assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1He3yTm )
nubbins`: o.O
jurov: care to explain to nonmuricans?
mats: ketchup chips are amazing
nubbins`: jurov i'm canadian fwiw
nubbins`: ketchup flavored potato chips are popular here
nubbins`: and apparently now doritos (traditionally cheesy flavored corn chips) has ketchup flavor
nubbins`: they taste very strange, ketchup-flavored corn chips.
jurov: jurov i'm canadian << ha i was waiting for this
nubbins`: 8)
Adlai: does your routine
Adlai: involve some poutine?
jurov: eh?
Adlai: do you set the table
Adlai: with syrup of maple?
jurov: ehh?
Adlai imitates dr seuss re: land of the moose
nubbins`: there's a couple living on the other side of the harbour that owns goats and taps maple trees
nubbins`: i'm not a huge fan of maple
jurov: and i don't get why flavored doritos are O.o ... at first glance i was thinking it has something with blood
jurov: now *that* would be something... blood-flavored
nubbins`: heh
nubbins`: jurov this is like coming across mustard-flavored jellybeans
jurov: http://aeon.co/magazine/society/what-roman-slave-owners-knew-about-managing-staff/
assbot: Management theories from Roman slave-owners – Jerry Toner – Aeon ... ( http://bit.ly/1He56g3 )
jurov: "Buying any old slave risked contaminating the morale of the whole household."
mircea_popescu: punkman ozzie govt only needs courts if it needs them.
mircea_popescu: http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11424037 << tellingly, this is not the front page of the nyt, wapo adn every single other usg propaganda leaflet.
assbot: A court case so secret, US Govt says it can't go on ... ( http://bit.ly/1G6leSg )
mircea_popescu: jurov that piece is, roughly speaking, the result of a cat reading a mayan calendar and inputting the result into google translate.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39200 @ 0.00025784 = 10.1073 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34950 @ 0.00025782 = 9.0108 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42150 @ 0.00025771 = 10.8625 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46873 @ 0.00025751 = 12.0703 BTC [-]