asciilifeform: nubbins`: could wait till i post this, you know

asciilifeform: i'm in the process of slicing out all of the actually relevant changes

asciilifeform: who's they

asciilifeform: cazalla: iirc that's the default left by uboot

asciilifeform: cazalla: serial port?

asciilifeform: trinque: why would that be

asciilifeform read that earlier today, but had a mindfuck and thought it was about perkin elmer

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 'heightening the contradictions' ?

asciilifeform: at the risk of mixing metaphors, the battery is powered by burning the (remaining) furniture.

asciilifeform: can't speak for ben_vulpes, but no one came and asked me if the jets should be built

asciilifeform: so having a position on the matter feels odd

asciilifeform: l0l mr o polls, 'should grumman get another $tril' ?

asciilifeform: suckstarter.

asciilifeform: (as in harley)

asciilifeform: someone, iirc al schwartz, described his sister as 'could suckstart a harley'

asciilifeform: in othere news

asciilifeform: we have sata.

asciilifeform: ... aaand

asciilifeform: chucked all the extra crud

asciilifeform: from kernel

asciilifeform: not size that matters so much

asciilifeform: but brain footprint

asciilifeform: drive mounts.

asciilifeform: yes, that weird sandisk.

asciilifeform: sd and usb also work.

asciilifeform: boot time, from end of udev pause, is ~3 sec.

asciilifeform: 927d52a91421ad608ceaf011e56aa91d18f478f81707a8774bc0cbdb146621f5118b35c640b376cdcaef206be98b520802f1f749e387b1b4876d6a6a0d080bd1 turdel-now-with-sata.gz

asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/turdel-now-with-sata.gz

asciilifeform: shielded but for the keyboard, display..

asciilifeform: power

asciilifeform: 'heavy metal case' is not the same as 'tempest shield' regardless of appearances

asciilifeform: though it beats plastic

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, danielpbarron, punkman, nubbins`, et al:

asciilifeform: achtung, panzers!

asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000074.html

asciilifeform: 'Presenting... Build your own Pogotron.'

asciilifeform: tested the result, too

asciilifeform: should take about 20 min. on a typical box, to build the WHOLE ORCHESTRA

asciilifeform: incl. compilers.

asciilifeform: ^^^^^^ thing i promised mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1068981 ☝︎

asciilifeform: is here.

asciilifeform: gentlemen, start yer enginez

asciilifeform: the cookbook is brutally terse, if any of it isn't obvious plz ask while i'm awake

asciilifeform: aha

asciilifeform: it ought to run on any reasonable unix though

asciilifeform: uses nothing local but gcc

asciilifeform: trinque: note that bitcoind is not included in this yet

asciilifeform: decimation: i only tried it on 4.8.x

asciilifeform: decimation: if you have something unusually archaic, may have problems

asciilifeform: somebody at least build this plz.

asciilifeform: even if no pogo.

asciilifeform: you will get a kernel image (also contains rootfs)

asciilifeform: neato

asciilifeform: the Gb ethernet, 3Gb/s sata, sd card, usb - work

asciilifeform: have not yet tested led or button.

asciilifeform: i also eliminated all the standard crud that kernel wants to have by default - support for usb hid, mice, keyboards, framebuffers, and anything whatsoever whose purpose i did not know

asciilifeform: gone.

asciilifeform: if i missed something - shoot it, don't hesitate

asciilifeform: one little warning - 'buildroot' is dumb as a rock, you will have to 'make clean all' just about every time

asciilifeform: (every time you change anything)

asciilifeform: doesn't nuke the compiler though, iirc

asciilifeform: a rebuild is about 6 min. on my box.

asciilifeform: for those who don't know - 'buildroot' does -not- use your local crossdev tooling, should you have any

asciilifeform: it builds own world.

asciilifeform: ah and this thing builds uboot

asciilifeform: but i have not tested the one it makes

asciilifeform: i am using the one i made.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i thought about this

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it isn't a particularly great substitute for a unix, unfortunately

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: missing any kind of i/o scheduler, or, more importantly, task slicer

asciilifeform: (scheduler)

asciilifeform: (bitcoind is threaded)

asciilifeform: or dos port would have been simple.

asciilifeform: aha

asciilifeform: this is roughly close in sweat level to an msdos port

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i certainly intend to sit bitcoin down on the metal. on possibly even this machine. but will probably use ada's spark bare metal for it.

asciilifeform: and not today.

asciilifeform: trinque: sorta like grub.

asciilifeform: neh

asciilifeform: for the final solution.

asciilifeform: aha.

asciilifeform: grub does init surprisingly much

asciilifeform: (iirc it can even set up x64 mode if asked)

asciilifeform: but grub is x86-centric

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'menstrual extraction' ?

asciilifeform also considered this

asciilifeform did not like the lack of process separation inherent in it

asciilifeform: wedged bitcoind - wedged machine

asciilifeform has been thinking about this for a long time.

asciilifeform: aha.

asciilifeform: i'd go further

asciilifeform: ... a device.

asciilifeform: easy to swap device, no ?

asciilifeform: i didn't say 'custom ic'

asciilifeform: i said 'device'

asciilifeform: as in, a box that isn't used for anything else.

asciilifeform: and custom si doesn't imply 'set in stone' necessarily

asciilifeform: could very easily be a bitcoind-optimized cpu arch.

asciilifeform: (with support for bounds checking and other adaisms)

asciilifeform: but this is for after the war.

asciilifeform: if i make it to the middle - i do it. otherwise, trying to leave enough of a record here for the next fella.

asciilifeform: wat

asciilifeform: # uname -a

asciilifeform: Linux therealbitcoin 3.18.1-therealbitcoin.org #2 PREEMPT Sat Mar 28 22:09:20 EDT 2015 armv5tel GNU/Linux

asciilifeform: ^ is what you get if built correctly.

asciilifeform: with your date/time

asciilifeform: decimation: what machine / gcc ?

asciilifeform: decimation: because this is a buildrootism and has nothing to do with me

asciilifeform: you can printenv from uboot console

asciilifeform: if you have serial port (or the netconsole thing set up)

asciilifeform: likewise setenv

asciilifeform: -and-

asciilifeform: saveenv

asciilifeform: (yes, flashes changes from in itself)

asciilifeform: anyway, the two most urgent items on the agenda for this thing are:

asciilifeform: 1) freezing the sourceballs in time

asciilifeform: (virginal buildroot loads them -from the net- and afaik does not check signatures)

asciilifeform: 2) study the package system. the dependencies of bitcoind would ideally be added as packages

asciilifeform: (source packages. there are no other kinds in this)

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: buildroot builds and uses own toolchain, in a kind of jail. so it is very convenient to have the whole thing build inside it

asciilifeform: and ultimately stronger, because nothing snarfed in from the os

asciilifeform: aha that yes.

asciilifeform: is what i was speaking of.

asciilifeform: the dl directory

asciilifeform: if it has a package, it won't load again

asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/2K9GBR5.txt

asciilifeform: ^ mine

asciilifeform: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/2S1W3X0.txt

asciilifeform: ... ?

asciilifeform: deedbot- http://dpaste.com/2S1W3X0.txt

asciilifeform: wat

asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000075.html

asciilifeform: ^ thrown to mailinglist

asciilifeform: wai wat

asciilifeform: i was supposed to -do- something ?

asciilifeform: beyond being in l1 ?

asciilifeform: syntax?

asciilifeform: deedbot- http://www.loper-os.org/pgp.asc

asciilifeform: wat.

asciilifeform: deedbot- http://dpaste.com/3VDY1C1.txt

asciilifeform: deedbot- http://dpaste.com/2S1W3X0.txt

asciilifeform: there we go.

asciilifeform: it wants .txt

asciilifeform: apparently.

asciilifeform: Mem: 7748K used, 115328K free, 44K shrd, 0K buff, 2768K cached

asciilifeform: ^ some of the 7.7M is the kernel, but most is the ramdisk, which won't exist in the battlefield version

asciilifeform: thus we get almost the entire 128M to play with

asciilifeform: and using small machines becomes thinkable.

asciilifeform: incidentally no reason not to do a rom-able x86 build at some point

asciilifeform: (great for eating as part of a balanced diet with linuxbios)

asciilifeform: (small machine, example, http://www.hootoo.com/hootoo-tripmate-nano-ht-tm02-wireless-portable-router.html )

asciilifeform: (and see log.)

asciilifeform: this is almost linux as it was when it was a joy

asciilifeform: instead of chore

asciilifeform: (how come almost 8M? u-boot takes gzipped kernels, of course.)

asciilifeform: trinque: 'turdel' ? or you built with recipe

asciilifeform: congrats trinque !

asciilifeform: now who'll be next.

asciilifeform: trinque: and now that you baked, read the patch. it will begin to make sense.

asciilifeform: just thinking,

asciilifeform: there was a time when folks would have -killed- for 128M.

asciilifeform: i remember saving to buy an 8M stick.

asciilifeform: for a year.

asciilifeform: and modern 'brogrammer' wipes his arse with it

asciilifeform: nope.

asciilifeform: or rather,

asciilifeform: what was building ?

asciilifeform: ('nope' as in, i did not patch anything remotely close to there)

asciilifeform: decimation: hash your manifest

asciilifeform: see earlier thread

asciilifeform: make sure it pulled down the same tarballs

asciilifeform: trinque: i like to mark code that folks can use to kill themselves, with it

asciilifeform: wherever i go

asciilifeform: having meatspace friends who program must be fun

asciilifeform: decimation: i think local tar ends up untarring things

asciilifeform: how else

asciilifeform: i mean, if you lacked tar,

asciilifeform: how would any of it untar

asciilifeform: ---

asciilifeform: and already found one small mistake

asciilifeform: dhcpd is built. we never use it

asciilifeform: (what we actually use is busybox's udhcpd)

asciilifeform: can be cut from the buildroot conf.

asciilifeform: ---

asciilifeform: i think i also forgot to build any mtd utils

asciilifeform: so can't hack uboot from inside this. yet.

asciilifeform: decimation: of course not. it never gets downloaded

asciilifeform: or, hm, does it

asciilifeform: nope.

asciilifeform: i think we end up using busybox tar

asciilifeform: for the armv5 os, that is

asciilifeform: for the build, it uses local machine's tar.

asciilifeform: busybox, to those new to it, is a unix util userland in more or less 1 executable.

asciilifeform: (symlinked to the usual names)

asciilifeform: it is often found on routers, sex toys, miscellaneous embedded machinery

asciilifeform: oh and another missing ingredient

asciilifeform: exercise for my readers!

asciilifeform: add an unprivileged user.

asciilifeform: you can do this with the file system overlay (see patch and readme) or using buildroot's spiffy user generator (can't help here, never tried)

asciilifeform: bitcoind probably ought to run as other than root.

asciilifeform: (see process separation discussion from earlier thread.)

asciilifeform: decimation: interesting. no such thing on mine.

asciilifeform: decimation: are you sure you are building with the patch ?

asciilifeform: odd then.

asciilifeform: someone will have to discover why.

asciilifeform: aahahahaha.

asciilifeform: i can't help but think of 'aradruin' when i see it

asciilifeform: always.

asciilifeform: well, orodruin

asciilifeform: in the original.

asciilifeform: almost as good as apple v apple

asciilifeform: nubbins`: all stored in BR2_DL_DIR << we got this last night, yes

asciilifeform: nubbins`: i posted sha512's for my set, also.

asciilifeform: (see log)

asciilifeform: nubbins`: gentoo for what

asciilifeform: found a few other minor omissions in the build

asciilifeform: vgaarb is enabled (there is no vga, naturally) - missed this in the cleanup

asciilifeform: also need to set mac address of the nic

asciilifeform: otherwise all pogos will have the same one (it is not stored in any kind of nonvolatile memory)

asciilifeform: i will suggest that all subsequent patches for buildroot per se, be published as diffs from the one i posted last night

asciilifeform: rather than a mega-turd each, if diffing from a virginal buildroot

asciilifeform: did we ever get anywhere in the ntp-or-not debate ?

asciilifeform: i did not include ntp

asciilifeform: but the result is that the machine time is epoch 0 on boot.

asciilifeform: (clock does run monotonically after boot)

asciilifeform: http://cryptome.org/2015/03/merrill-019.pdf << interesting re: 'national security letters'

asciilifeform: Chillum: if you own a machine used specifically for executing malware, very convenient for this purpose.

asciilifeform: <Chillum> Routers are a sad state of affair. Something like 70% of consumer wifi routers in the wild are vulnerable to heartbleed << and a fella who knows this, is still fond of ssl ? amazing

asciilifeform: no.

asciilifeform: Chillum: i'm not certain that any of the #b-a regulars believe it to have been a bug.

asciilifeform: i very much do not.

asciilifeform: it is rather like pointing to a grain of sand in a turd, and advocating shit as a construction material because 'that grain is solid'

asciilifeform: the actual crypto is buried at the far bottom of a deep, deep tank of liquid shit.

asciilifeform: Chillum: if it has a www configurator of any kind, it's consumer garbage

asciilifeform: adult router is configured over a dedicated serial port

asciilifeform: ^

asciilifeform: Chillum: i take it you are the only one accessing the systems in question ?

asciilifeform: Chillum: if so, why not stick to the considerably less dysfunctional ssh ?

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: many folks use mac addrs in routing tables

asciilifeform: incidentally, the upnp demon will need to be thrown in

asciilifeform: at least in the civilian version

asciilifeform: i am very much against allowing it into bitcoind per se

asciilifeform: let it run as own user.

asciilifeform: upnp buggerer

asciilifeform: you know, that one

asciilifeform: that opens ports on crapsumer routers

asciilifeform: aha

asciilifeform: thing is, this is a little more complicated than appears

asciilifeform: because it needs to know when it must attempt upnp and when not

asciilifeform: the traditional bitcoind (see code) asked a peer to attempt connect-back on 8333

asciilifeform: Chillum is speaking of a 'pheature' found on particularly imbecilic consumer routers

asciilifeform: circa '00-'05

asciilifeform circa '80s but does not object to this

asciilifeform: .... aaaaand...

asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000076.html

asciilifeform: Pogotron v2.

asciilifeform: this one isn't as neat as it sounds. i thought BR_PACKAGE_UBOOT_TOOLS will add with fw_xxxxx on the target rootfs but seems like no. these will have to be added as packages

asciilifeform: what i wanted to do was to build something suitable for reflashing into virginal pogos for dev work

asciilifeform: but this is not -quite- it.

asciilifeform: it -does- contain nandread and nandwrite.

asciilifeform: still built as monolithic kernel with rootfs-in-ram, deliberately

asciilifeform: but anyone who wants to, -can- flash this into nand in place of existing kernel

asciilifeform: and it'll boot.

asciilifeform: and you can upgrade from inside it

asciilifeform: ^

asciilifeform: 'кто не с нами тот против нас' (TM)

asciilifeform: b94fb4736e0fa1394784d1139fe8262df450bb945c846e6bd1eda70d2c55679ccf8b7679e08c10d00aaf3dbebf9245875f3001654cf48ce5d1ac4e3c0cffce84 turdel_latest.gz

asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/turdel_latest.gz

asciilifeform: ^ what comes out after v2 patch.

asciilifeform: ^ this can replace arch and debian now, which folks have been using

asciilifeform: if you copy the uboot tools to a writable external disk

asciilifeform: nand - can be operated from inside this turdel.

asciilifeform: can safely toss the pieces of shit with systemd, etc. now.

asciilifeform: incidentally, the uboot fw_xxxx tools are very simple:

asciilifeform: the config thing lives at a certain offset (forget where) in mtd0

asciilifeform: where uboot lives

asciilifeform: the fw_printenv thing simply dumps the text found therein

asciilifeform: fw_setenv reflashes those blocks to hold new text

asciilifeform: ^ so in principle these can be reimplemented with the nand tools i have included. ☟︎

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i think he was speaking of rsa per se

asciilifeform: Chillum: we routinely 'argue with recordings' of one another. this is how #b-a folk handle the fact that not everyone lives at his computer

asciilifeform: Adlai: kindergartens and mental asylums also, afaik, don't keep logs

asciilifeform: yet survive.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: "is luser luser because on windoze, << the older version of this was, iirc, 'do styes make pigs' ?

asciilifeform: 30 years later in this process the fucking mit grads can't make a flashlight << aha

asciilifeform: !s flashlight

asciilifeform: l0l where did it go

asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ve23i5K334

asciilifeform: ^^^

asciilifeform: Chillum: stock pogo comes with 'dropbear', a miniature sshd

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i can think of an alternate hypothesis about the flashlight thing

asciilifeform: 'I have had a chance to observe quite a few companies in the U.S. from the inside, and have spotted a certain constancy in the staffing profile. At the top, there is a group of highly compensated senior lunch-eaters. They tend to spend all of their time pleasing each other in various ways, big and small. They often hold advanced degrees in disciplines such as Technical Schmoozing and Relativistic Bean-counting. They are obsess

asciilifeform: ive on the subject of money, and cultivate a posh country set atmosphere, even if they are just one generation out of the coal mines. Ask them to solve a technical problem — and they will politely demur, often taking the opportunity to flash their wit with a self-deprecating joke or two. ... The natives at the top always try to standardize the job descriptions and lower the pay scale of the immigrants at the bottom, playing

asciilifeform: them against each other, while trying to portray themselves as super-achieving entrepreneurial mavericks who can't be pinned down to a mere set of marketable skills.'

asciilifeform: from orlov's 'lessons' ( http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/062805_soviet_lessons_part2.shtml )

asciilifeform: it is 'declasse' to admit that you can make a flashlight, at a 'sprezzatura' wankfest

asciilifeform: can't say for sure. but entirely possible

asciilifeform: does sprezzatura really call for top-notch general-purpose acting skill ?

asciilifeform: nubbins`: notice how nobody here bothered with the 'request unlock' thing or even knows if it ever worked ☟︎

asciilifeform: because wtf why

asciilifeform: Chillum: this particular item is an oddity in this regard, because it is very clearly a loss-leader

asciilifeform: (priced substantially below cost, in all likelihood)

asciilifeform: it is interesting that the actual contents of the can has been shrinking continuously over the years

asciilifeform: for instance, there was at one point a pogo entirely like this one but 256M.

asciilifeform: same cost.

asciilifeform: and, the successor to this (out of print) machine is quite similar but no sata.

asciilifeform: nubbins`: that one is gone too

asciilifeform: nubbins`: speaking of 'pink pogo' here

asciilifeform: this is rather reminiscent of how the famous linksys wrt54g hyper-bestseller slowly shrank and shrank, from 16 and then 8 and then 4 (even 2!) MB of ram, linux could no longer be used on it

asciilifeform: and the product faded away

asciilifeform: -everyone- has one of those

asciilifeform: in a cellar somewhere

asciilifeform: they actually re-issued it a few yrs back

asciilifeform: as a commemorative edition, somethinglikethat

asciilifeform: when i ran across the 2MB linksys, my thought was 'linux is obese if can't fit in 2MB'

asciilifeform: not 'damned linksys cheated us'

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you'd probably end up rating him '-11111 does not have sole control of private key'

asciilifeform off to meatspace for a spell. wants to hear if anyone tests v2 patch.