⏐︎ 9305
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: noooo
ben_vulpes: have not, no.
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: sorta like the proverbial 'jet engine on a ford pinto' situation. << obligatory: http://www.ronpatrickstuff.com/
ben_vulpes: "*** Update 7/18/06 *** You have to give the California Department of Motor Vehicles (the DMV) credit for creativity on this one. A DMV insider has disclosed to me that the DMV has made a formal request to a federal agency to rule if my Beetle constitutes a threat to national security based on what could happen if it got into the wrong hands."" << hah news to me since the last time i looked at the
ben_vulpes: thing
BingoBoingo: It's copper theft season again http://www.bnd.com/news/local/crime/article22358088.html
cazalla: half figured that was going to be an electrocution
asciilifeform: aaaaaand now for something completely different...
asciilifeform: achtung, panzers!
cazalla: common for people to get toasty'd on our rail way lines here trying to get at the copper
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al:
asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-May/000095.html
asciilifeform: (EXPERIMENTAL) IgProf Hooks Apparatus !
asciilifeform: mod6: you can use this to create a blockheight vs heap plot
asciilifeform: just call getinfo along with profileheapdump
mod6: oh, darn. ok im compiling right now with : bitcoin-v0_5_3_1-RELEASE + { OrphanageBurner } + { TX Orphanage Amputation }
mod6: think I should stop and compile that in as well?
asciilifeform: no hurry
mod6: well, was going to launch this for a full sync test.
mod6: nice tho!!
asciilifeform: (goes without saying that you need igprof on your box for this to work)
ben_vulpes dreams of a box beefy enough to run sync tests for every patch submitted
mod6: i've never used it. im guessing i can just compile/install via 3rd party package?
asciilifeform: mod6: aha
mod6: ok.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: your hardware is not the limiting reactant here
asciilifeform: (the network is)
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: some several tb of disk would be nice
ben_vulpes: anyways, that's a nifty muntzing in the first one
asciilifeform: 2nd one is some dark magic, only serious sappers need apply
mod6: do you reccommend "Scientific Linux 5" or "Scientific Linux 6"?
asciilifeform: mod6: i have never seen, smelled, touched - either.
ben_vulpes: selinux? when what hum how?
mod6: oh, just looking for a version of IgProf to grab... maybe im looking at the wrong thing.
asciilifeform: http://igprof.org
mod6: yeah, thats where i am, i just wasnt on the DL page, nm.
asciilifeform: btw, after dumping a heap profile snapshot,
asciilifeform: igprof-analyse -d -v -g -r MEM_TOTAL heap1 > heap1.txt
asciilifeform: and so forth
asciilifeform: gives the plain text output
asciilifeform: (just like many other profilers, this one craps out somewhat terse encoded transcript by default)
asciilifeform: this gives MEM_TOTAL (how much churned)
asciilifeform: other options (e.g., MEM_LIVE) described in manual.
mod6: ok i'll come back to that, it's like a whole process to build that thing.
asciilifeform: http://igprof.org/analysis.html
asciilifeform: 'MEM_LIVE records the “live” memory – memory that hasn’t been freed. If the profile statistics file you are processing came from the end of the application’s run, this will be the memory leaked by the job. If the profile statistics file was triggered during the running of the job, it is a snapshot of the heap, i.e. a heap profile. The statistic is accurate (not statistical) and records the number of bytes allocated a
asciilifeform: nd the number of calls involved.'
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/blockheight-115500_igprof_mem_live.txt
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: ^^^^ sample output
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44000 @ 0.00030928 = 13.6083 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: ^ both orphanage-destroyers applied for this example run
mod6 looks
mod6: oh wow, nice.
asciilifeform: aha.
asciilifeform: and you can get these -during runtime- now
asciilifeform: instead of waiting for the thing to die, as in valgrind.
mod6: :]
mod6: very cool
asciilifeform: also the thing appears to have better coverage of dynamic libs
asciilifeform: (if you have libs with debug symbols, will display line #s therein as well)
asciilifeform: iirc there might be some fancy html-output mode also. but - have not tried this yet.
mod6: good deal.
mod6: i'll work on building this tool here this weekend.
mod6: well, maybe after this sync is done with these 2 patches anyway. gotta still write this SoBA yet.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24969 @ 0.00030496 = 7.6145 BTC [-]
danielpbarron: !up referredbyloper
ben_vulpes: quick poll: who writes in cursive?
asciilifeform would, but had handwriting neural circuitry utterly nuked by alphabet switch in childhood
asciilifeform now can only write in the worst possible print
asciilifeform: interestingly, the longer i go without writing by hand, the more this part of brain rots
asciilifeform: i even found myself, as of 4-5 yrs ago, often writing the 2nd letter of a word first
asciilifeform: this -never- happened at any point when i actually picked up a pen on a daily basis (school)
referredbyloper: The cancer of bureaucracy: how it will destroy science, medicine, education; and eventually everything else. http://gen.lib.rus.ec/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1016%2Fj.mehy.2009.11.038
ben_vulpes: referredbyloper: and who are you?
ben_vulpes: and hyu with that auto-downloading pdf
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> interestingly, the longer i go without writing by hand, the more this part of brain rots << expected behavior
ben_vulpes: i refuse to take notes on a computer
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: is there a russian equivalent to cursive?
ben_vulpes: of course there is
decimation: asciilifeform: you can get some of this kind of data with 'perf'
decimation: which comes with the kernel
decimation: but not the details
mod6: asciilifeform: full sync of bitcoin-v0_5_3_1-RELEASE + { OrphanageBurner } + { TX Orphanage Amputation } underway
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-05-2015#1146983 < primarily it bought a whole pile of sunk costs in existing designs, plus serfs who know how to manipulate the tools ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 28-05-2015 14:52:47; pete_dushenski: "Broadcom is known as a fabless company. It outsources all semiconductor manufacturing to Asian merchant foundries, such as GlobalFoundries, Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation, Silterra, TSMC, and United Microelectronics Corporation." << ahaha. so what the fuck did $37 bn even buy ?
decimation: but when you consier that apple bought renasas for $0.48 bn, you gotta wonder if they are overpaying
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37000 @ 0.00031052 = 11.4892 BTC [+]
mod6: <+asciilifeform> re: memory hunger: anyone investigated effect of https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E17076_04/html/api_reference/CXX/envset_memory_max.html ? << I haven't, but I certainly wanna try this out.
mod6: What's the memory cap that you wanna use on a pogo? 256Mb?
danielpbarron: !up rwg
mod6 reminds himself to setup that pogo
williamdunne: !up referredbyloper
rwg: danielpbarron, yo
decimation: !s referredbyloper
assbot: 10 results for 'referredbyloper' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=referredbyloper
decimation: http://www.reed.com/blog-dpr/?page_id=6 < "One project where my friend and officemate Steven T. Kent (now chief scientist and vice president at BBN, and a chief advisor to NSA) and I lost was our strong argument to put mandatory end-to-end encryption into TCP (and adaptations of the ideas to UDP-based protocols, such as RTP, hich I worked out but abandoned). "
mod6: asciilifeform: in the igprof_mem_live output, is the "Total" column in aggregate bytes - a sum of all bytes from the call's of said function?
decimation: "Steve?s design was rejected, not because it was unsound, but because NSA did not want to see ANY encryption work going on in the public domain ARPA project, some say because they did not want to see the world be ?too secure? by default. (Rivest and friends had just invented RSA, and the government was trying to declare it Top Secret, then later prohibited under ITAR munitions control export laws)."
danielpbarron: hi rwg !
danielpbarron: do you know how to gpg ?
decimation: mod6: here's how to read the output http://igprof.org/text-output-format.html
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36450 @ 0.00031052 = 11.3185 BTC [+]
decimation: by my eye, it looks to me that ThreadMessageHandler(void*) is a turd
mod6: thx decimation
mod6: have you looked at ThreadMessageHandler2 ?
mod6: wait, these are not just bytes allocated during calls, these are LEAKED BYTES?!
decimation: actually CBlock::AddToBlockIndex(unsigned int, unsigned int) [10]
decimation: yes
mod6: lolol that's horrendus. ProcessBlock leaked 26`847`114 bytes over 346`507 calls?! ☟︎
decimation: yes but noted that the leaks were all in its children
mod6: asciilifeform: how long (how many blocks) was bitcoind sync'ing while you took this sample?
decimation: if you follow that trail you find it's AddToBlockIndex
mod6: ahh. ok
mod6 looks
mod6: asciilifeform: oh nm, 115500, didn't see that in the URL
mod6: decimation: i see now
mod6: 26'370'420 / 26'370'420 346'503 / 346'503 CBlock::AcceptBlock() [11]
mod6: leads to
mod6: 26'370'420 / 26'370'612 346'503 / 346'506 CBlock::AddToBlockIndex(unsigned int, unsigned int) [10]
decimation: There is all kinds of allocation that happens in that fuction
decimation: this makes me wanna burn std::lib and boost ☟︎
mod6: !up ascii_modem
ascii_modem: nonono not leaks
ascii_modem: plz read manual
mod6: aight, me goes back to it.
ascii_modem: there are no leaks in the usual sense
ascii_modem: the flat graph from mod6 tells us this
ascii_modem: thinkaboutit
ascii_modem: as for the memlimit thing, it has to do with bdb only!
ascii_modem: and 256m is insane, we only have 128 total
mod6: ah, ok, couldn't remember the amt.
ascii_modem: db should't get more than 4 or at most 8
mod6: and yea, just for db.
mod6: ok
mod6 reads
ascii_modem: and - plz remember how to read profilers - the 'turd' is merely the procedure that is at the root of call graph tree
ascii_modem: so naturally will appear 'heavy' because 'all roads lead to rome'
mod6: yah, werd.
danielpbarron: !up rwg
decimation: asciilifeform: all roads lead to home, yes, but home is a good place to start examining each potential pathway
decimation: mod6: so you did a graph of vmstat calls? Is that what ascii is talking about?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28472 @ 0.00031217 = 8.8881 BTC [+]
mod6: decimation: ah, no. graphs are from nmon. there is a document that goes along with all of that. it's in the mailing list and in the http://thebitcoin.foundation/test/perf/ root
mod6: http://thebitcoin.foundation/test/perf/nmon_tests_201505.txt
decimation: so the goal here is to reduce memory use, not to find leaks?
mod6: is that directed at me with my perf tests? or at asciilifeform?
decimation: I guess at ascii, why he bothered with igprof
decimation: presumably the 'leaks' were found by igprof because he killed it after running a certain time, so memory wasn't freed?
mod6: yeah, im not even sure what i'm looking at anymore with that igprof stuff yet.
mod6: i was just getting started reading and got pulled away for a minute.
mod6: but as far as the nmon tests, I wanted to system level profile the entire sync process -- get some visuals, see what we're looking at as far as overall system usage, etc.
decimation: it defintely thinks those areas are leaks, but that might be because of how it was killed, not because it was actually leaked (in the sense of the pointer was lost)
mod6: yeah, im not sure. i need to read more there.
decimation: I see what ascii means about the flat graph (memory.png on the orphanage thermonuke)
mod6: in addition to the valgrind tests that ascii did earlier this month, i was going to dig into some of that myself in june.
mod6: and now, maybe learn the ropes on igprof.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19800 @ 0.00032704 = 6.4754 BTC [+]
mod6: <+decimation> I see what ascii means about the flat graph (memory.png on the orphanage thermonuke) << ahh
asciilifeform: decimation: where do you see leaks ?
asciilifeform: and i will add, nothing was killed, that thing is running even now, without interruption
decimation: the igprof documentation says that the report shows memory leaks
asciilifeform: decimation: all i noticed is the same 'pocket change' leaks as valgrind shows
decimation: "MEM_LIVE records the ?live? memory ? memory that hasn?t been freed. If the profile statistics file you are processing came from the end of the application?s run, this will be the memory leaked by the job. If the profile statistics file was triggered during the running of the job, it is a snapshot of the heap, i.e. a heap profile. The statistic is accurate (not statistical) and records the number of bytes allocated and the number of c
mod6: so the docs say, "MEM_LIVE records the ``live'' memory -- memory that hasn't been freed. If the profile statistics file you are processing came from the end
mod6: haha. was just typing that out ^^
asciilifeform: well no shit it wasn't freed
asciilifeform: it is in use !
asciilifeform: as in, actually alive
decimation: ah so it wasn't killed, that makes sense
asciilifeform: this is not valgrind! it does not need the process to terminate.
mod6: cool.
mod6 goes back to reading
decimation: asciilifeform: so is your goal to trim out all the 'inactive' memory use?
decimation: so that it fits more comfortably in the pogo?
asciilifeform: decimation: my goal is to get it to sit down in 120M or so.
asciilifeform: whatever it takes.
asciilifeform: there is no acceptable reason for the thing not to go in this very generous box.
asciilifeform: in fact, i want it in 32M. ☟︎
decimation: heh. you realize this means you are gonna probably have to discard all the C++ shit
asciilifeform: decimation: aaaaand without any major rewrite.
asciilifeform: just by taking every piece of retarded cruft and shooting it in the head.
decimation: yeah there's tons of cruft in there, no doubt
asciilifeform: every piece of 'orphan' nonsense, where thing works 100% as well with it gone
asciilifeform: every kind of cache
asciilifeform: every idiot dependency that just adds retardation (e.g., dns)
decimation: resolving the fixed hostnames?
asciilifeform: every piece of shit that gets stored & kept around for no reason
asciilifeform: fuck the fixed hostnames
asciilifeform: didn't i kill those already ?
decimation: I'm not sure, I need to get back on the patch train
mod6: <+ascii_modem> nonono not leaks << ok i see, so with -mp in the MEM_LIVE output we're just seeing a live heap. not leaks as the other doc page said.
mod6: <+ascii_modem> there are no leaks in the usual sense <+ascii_modem> the flat graph from mod6 tells us this << right
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/1172660_mem_live.txt
asciilifeform: and
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/1172660_mem_max.txt
asciilifeform: ^ where it is now
mod6: that other page about "text-output-format.html" threw me off.
mod6 looks
asciilifeform: l0l extra 0 in there
asciilifeform: rather, extra 1
asciilifeform: 172660, meant.
decimation: asciilifeform: does it slow the processing down (igprof)?
asciilifeform: decimation: not noticeably
decimation: interesting.
asciilifeform: then again, it is running on a very generously oversized box
asciilifeform: ;;calc 144897106 - 74026911
gribble: 70870195
asciilifeform: where the hell did -these- go ?
asciilifeform: this is -exactly- my complaint with valgrind.
mod6: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/172660_mem_max.txt << 404
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/1172660_mem_max.txt
asciilifeform: yes, it's a typo
mod6: OH, i didn't actually need to take the extranious '1' out. gotcha
asciilifeform: i'd fix it, but these links are not intended as permanent
asciilifeform: i want everybody to try this at home.
decimation: asciilifeform: your complaint is that valgrind doesn't catch all the memory use?
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: trivially verified with pmap
asciilifeform: let's put it another way:
asciilifeform: there is absolutely no reason for bitcoind to ever use more than at most a few MB more than when it first boots.
asciilifeform: is there even any reason ever to keep more than one or two (second being, one that is in the process of load/verify) blocks in ram at one time
decimation: asciilifeform: it appears a big chunk of the memory in use is tied up in the CBlockIndex class
asciilifeform: decimation: that might be the bdb cache
asciilifeform: (see earlier link)
asciilifeform: it does -not- appear to grow significantly as the thing runs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13748 @ 0.00032704 = 4.4961 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73528 @ 0.00031891 = 23.4488 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: o look at that
mircea_popescu: mthreat interesting. so basically they run them looser and with a momentum-consuming groove in one spot.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is awake !
asciilifeform waits for mircea_popescu to eat the log
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> why not just rewrite the memory allocation engine at this point, asciilifeform << this is two degrees of magnitude easier, at least.
asciilifeform: none of it is hard.
asciilifeform: but,
asciilifeform: magical allocators are entirely the wrong place to begin.
asciilifeform: that is how you get shitgnomatrons in the first place
asciilifeform: (that is, by plastering over retardation with magic)
mircea_popescu: lol "dark market coupons"
asciilifeform: if, -after we nuke all of the powerranger cruft- - we end up having to go there - then we go there.
asciilifeform: not before.
mod6: makes sense.
mircea_popescu: cazalla i think she has a point actually. deed the pages, that's proof enough. and as the derps probably don't know (or don't know they should know), we might even catch a diddled page. maybe.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "as far as we know" tm, there's no effect.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re: which ?
mircea_popescu: the berkley db mem allocation
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i get a ballooning all the way to ~23M during first few hours of runtime, where it stays (based on pmap data)
asciilifeform: just for bdb
mircea_popescu: i think it pre-allocates locks or something
asciilifeform: according to docs, this is not a hard necessity.
mircea_popescu: well no, just how it does it
asciilifeform: there is a hard-ram-bound option, presently unused, and entirely separate from the locks constant. see link in log.
scoopbot_revived: Former US House Speaker Indicted on Attempting to Evade Financial Surveillance http://qntra.net/2015/05/former-us-house-speaker-indicted-on-attempting-to-evade-financial-surveillance/
mircea_popescu: decimation rather old news at this point, the entire "nsa hoped and lost"
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-05-2015#1147258 << welcome to "we're improving bitcoin" bitcoin. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-05-2015 01:53:57; mod6: lolol that's horrendus. ProcessBlock leaked 26`847`114 bytes over 346`507 calls?!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: plz read log. these are not leaks...
mircea_popescu: im parsing!
mod6: :] i read a doc from the igprof site that had me confused on what I was looking at.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-05-2015#1147270 << an' use what ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-05-2015 01:58:35; decimation: this makes me wanna burn std::lib and boost
mircea_popescu: oh okay i see.
mircea_popescu: somehow i thought we're still looking at valgrind stuffls.
decimation: mircea_popescu: yeah but the interesting thing is to see how they were involved in the early creation of internet protocols
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nah this is an entirely other animal, 'igprof.' takes malloc byte counts from a living (!) process
asciilifeform: which is running still.
mircea_popescu: by now i heard the "nsa didn't want strong encryption at all, and lobbied against inclusion of anything like it were microsoft on a bender" from so many people it's settled ☟︎
asciilifeform: to do this, you need http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-May/000095.html
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26100 @ 0.00031228 = 8.1505 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah i see. no clear call on whether they were leaked or not yet.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: snapshot lets you take counts of live allocs as often as you like
mircea_popescu: yea
asciilifeform: any that monotonically increases is candidate for a leak. but mod6's test (and mine) suggests that there are no longer leaks in the classical sense
asciilifeform: in that the total footprint does not exceed a certain size
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47622 @ 0.00031283 = 14.8976 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-05-2015#1147327 << the many things alf wants to fit in his mind, and the place where we find his brain is actually 32mb memory. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-05-2015 02:39:30; asciilifeform: in fact, i want it in 32M.
decimation: they are 'leaks' in the sense that the memory is in use and isn't free
asciilifeform: decimation: 'leak' has a precise technical definition
asciilifeform: which is, memory which ought to have been freed, but can -no longer ever be-
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i want the thing to shoehorn into, e.g., 'hootoo tripmate'
asciilifeform: which comes with 32MB
mircea_popescu: aha
mircea_popescu: and he's not into anal sex
mircea_popescu: he just likes shoving hot rods into tiny crevices.
BingoBoingo: !b 5 ✂︎
assbot: Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1NTMMD7.txt )
asciilifeform: to each man, his favourite crevice
BingoBoingo: damn too early
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-05-2015#1147415 << this is beautifully and amply documented in 'the electronic privacy papers' by (yes) schneier (pre-lobotomy) ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-05-2015 03:35:55; mircea_popescu: by now i heard the "nsa didn't want strong encryption at all, and lobbied against inclusion of anything like it were microsoft on a bender" from so many people it's settled
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo old age problems
mircea_popescu: used to be too late.
asciilifeform: i have the dead tree
asciilifeform: (one nice thing about dead trees is that they cannot be doctored remotely)
asciilifeform: 'the great soviet encyclopaedia' and the 'corrections' mailed to owners, complete with razor for slicing out 'unpersons', notwithstanding
asciilifeform: (btw it was a very spiffy encyclopaedia and unjustly gets shat on today)
asciilifeform: incidentally, it would be a mistake to conclude that nsa was specifically raging against rsa and only it
asciilifeform: but more broadly against crypto research outside of the castle walls, as a class
BingoBoingo: Well, CPU time used to be expensive for kleptocrats too
asciilifeform: in late '80s - early '90s, laughably weak symmetric crypto (even rotor machines !) were still in use worldwide, for instance
asciilifeform: a great many ciphertrons sold by nato cocksucker nations (western europe) were actually electronicized versions of 'enigma'-style rotors ☟︎
decimation: asciilifeform: your definition of 'memory leak' seems to be narrower than common parlance
asciilifeform: decimation: common parlance, as always, is uselessly broad
decimation: yes, point taken. but what do you call memory that might be a leak, or might not?
asciilifeform: decimation: you call it 'i need to instrument the thing in real time and find out'
asciilifeform: alternatively 'i need to fit the code in head'
asciilifeform: the latter is the only reasonable goal, and the only reasonable purpose of the former is to advance it
decimation: asciilifeform: http://www.theamphour.com/247-an-interview-with-voja-antonic-gerontogenous-galaksija-genesis/ < that podcast is an interview with voja antonic, who invented an 8-bit 'home computer' that was published in a magazine in yugoslavia
asciilifeform: decimation: i think every sovblok pesthole had at least two dozen homebrew published z80 things
asciilifeform: (on top of the mass-produced sinclair clones)
decimation: in it, he says that he feels that code that is compiled and assembled from a higher level language (higher than assembly) isn't 'his'
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I think in this case it was a z80 clone
decimation: apparently in the yugoslav case it was because it was illegal to buy a foreign device above a certain dollar value - but you could buy the parts and assemble yourself
asciilifeform: they had genuine z80 !?
asciilifeform: bought with dollars ?!
decimation: now, thinking about what the assembly from (say bitcoind) would look like - our slavic human assembler would think that whoever wrote the code was afflicted with a case of 'word salad' madness
decimation: asciilifeform: I think he said he bought with marks
decimation: and yes, apparently parts were available
asciilifeform: decimation: reading disasm of cpp crapolade is a misery
asciilifeform does it regularly, does not relish
decimation: right, so 'fits in head' fails in all languages higher than assembly, on the c machine
decimation: because it's the bedrock yo
asciilifeform: decimation has a point in that even a very trivial cpp proggy can have very peculiar manifest behaviour
asciilifeform: even aside from cryptozoological animals like gcc errata
decimation: right, the 'value' of c++ is that you can 'forget' about the crap like 'malloc' 'free' etc
decimation: but these are precisely what you want to 'fit in head'
decimation: how to fit std::map and std::vector in head? bastards designed by committee
asciilifeform: which is why i think that at a certain point the advantage of a 'bitcoin' which can be -understood- will outweigh the danger of failing to enumerate every possible corner case of the original turd when crafting the ada safety-critical bitcoinatron
decimation: yes. but until that point comes, I agree that there's alot of cruft in there - there's no reason why working memory needs to be gigabytes
asciilifeform: we'll know when it comes when the folks who have skin in the game say it did..
asciilifeform: (see excellent old thread re: this subject)
decimation: the folks being everyone holding bitcoin (with expectation of trading them for something)
decimation: asciilifeform: amusingly the yugoslav guy said that 'his' design included an audio cassette for program storage (using simple FSK I presume)
asciilifeform: that was sop
asciilifeform: where else are you gonna store
decimation: he said that the yugoslav radio station would actually interrupt music broadcast to send - fsk encodings of z80 games
asciilifeform has trouble believing that this came to any good unless you lived next door to the station
decimation: well, if the SNR was high and the bitrate was low, it would work well enough
decimation: I suspect it was something like 300 baud "bell 202" type modem
asciilifeform as a boy sometimes listened to his brother's 'bk-0010' tapes
asciilifeform: we didn't have the thing at home. just the tapes
asciilifeform: (his school didn't have tape decks, you had to bring yer own if family had one)
decimation: heh interesting
decimation: Yeah before flash and cheap hard drives/floppy drives your only option was tape
decimation: or 'prom'
asciilifeform: tape was the mega-storage because just about everyone could beg/borrow/steal a deck
asciilifeform: no special hardware needed
decimation: yeah also common and cheap I guess
asciilifeform: incidentally, long after connecting analogue tape decks to computer was a forgotten misery in the west, ru folks were connecting vcr and getting respectable (10-20G) backup
asciilifeform: as late as early 2000s
asciilifeform: vhs tape can hold a surprising amount (helical scan head!) but tends to rot rather quickly
decimation: yeah you would need heavy forward error correction
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> which is why i think that at a certain point >> that point is conceivably after our times.
asciilifeform: definitely after my time.
decimation: mircea_popescu: you think folks will make do with shit c++ code for our lifetime?
mircea_popescu: <decimation> he said that the yugoslav radio station would actually interrupt music broadcast to send - fsk encodings of z80 games << i had games i had downloaded off the natl tv station.
mircea_popescu: CRACKED games.
decimation: heh that's amusing
decimation: for c64?
asciilifeform: decimation: c64 was not a z80 box
mircea_popescu: for tim-s
mircea_popescu: which was a z80 clone.
decimation: yeah I know
decimation: ah interesting
decimation: c64 had a version of 6502 like apple II
mircea_popescu: this was the 48kb + 16kb for basic interpreter thing
mircea_popescu: but you could also wipe the 16kb if you never called the thing, via DMA of the time
mircea_popescu: user could poke arbitrary ram
mircea_popescu: (instruction being called... POKE)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: interpreter wasn't in rom on your thing ?
mircea_popescu: the notion of "allocation" being unknown. of course it's allocated - the machine's on isn't it ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it was in rom and copied to the ram at startup iirc
asciilifeform: ah
mircea_popescu: not run FROM rom
decimation: from the comments on that yugoslav interview: "Also, there was not a ?ban on importing computers? in former Yugoslavia ? it was a by-product of a (stupid) government policy of trying to stop the drain of foreign currency. The customs law prevented a legal import of any goods that cost more than 100 DM (German marks, about 50 Euros in todays money). "
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33139 @ 0.00031476 = 10.4308 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: exercise for readers: describe -why- it was common (as is today) not to run directly from rom.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'peek' and 'poke' were sop on c64 and most micros of the time, aha
asciilifeform: the two most useful 'basic' keywords, yes.
asciilifeform: arguably none of the others needed to be learned..
decimation: asciilifeform: was it because loading the contents of the rom into ram allowed a single address space?
asciilifeform: decimation: it was a single address space no matter what
asciilifeform: (not one of these things had an mmu, nor was there any conceivable need for such a thing on a single-process os)
asciilifeform: the reason is that you can do local vars ('static' to a 'c' programmer) in ram
asciilifeform: but in rom, you need a ram stack/heap and can't simply shit where you eat
decimation: it seems that you could pull this off
decimation: but it would be highly non-portable
asciilifeform: you can - but it takes planning
asciilifeform: x86 never runs from rom. not even on warmup when sdram waitstate timer is not yet initialized
asciilifeform: (how? 'cache as ram' mode of x86 cpu)
asciilifeform: hypothetically, one could run an x86 box without any ram inserted, given a clever bios made for this occasion.
asciilifeform: i thought about actually making this, some years ago, as it had useful applications
decimation: especially with modern cpus that have tons of cache
asciilifeform: (cpu is warm and 'remanence' is a non-issue. think, crypto.)
decimation: plus low power, small form factor
asciilifeform: and no wait-cycles
asciilifeform: good for data-compact number crunching problems
asciilifeform: (of the kind i was working on with al schwartz and others)
decimation: to the poor slav z80 coder, the 'naked' xeon has embarassingly rich resources
asciilifeform: hell, the 8MB cache of my ancient 'opteron' is more than i had in my 486dx2
asciilifeform: (of total ram)
decimation: asciilifeform: ideally you would want to connect this naked cpu to others via the memory bus
decimation: but God help the poor soul who would try
asciilifeform: nah we're talking about off-the-shelf iron
asciilifeform: and making best use thereof
asciilifeform: but i have thought about connecting generic x86 boxen via the ram slots
decimation: well, off the shelf you could attach to a good 10gigE card with netboot
asciilifeform: $$$$$$$
decimation: yeah exactly
decimation: it would be cheap to use a 1 gige, but it would also have sad throughput
asciilifeform: ethernet, also, has ludicrous cpu overhead
asciilifeform: so the maximal throughputs are virtually never reached in practice
decimation: yeah, especially if ip stack
asciilifeform: (connection via ram slots is not, as it may appear, lunacy, but could be done with fpga, which would pretend to be a slice of sdram to two boxes at the same time, ignoring refresh cycles and managing locking somehow)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23850 @ 0.00032766 = 7.8147 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: yeah I can imagine it for a pair of cpus, but what if you wanted N cpus?
asciilifeform: there was an outfit which sold something quite like this (fpga on sdram stick) and even one in the shape of a cpu, which could sit down in ordinary cpu socket on multisocket mb
decimation: I suppose a ring of some sort
asciilifeform: but it got nsa'd
asciilifeform: ring, yes
asciilifeform: or preferably 2d fabric
asciilifeform: (compass arrows)
decimation: yeah
asciilifeform: hell, crossbars.
asciilifeform: i assume that the folks who a) want this b) can afford it --- have it.
asciilifeform: as always.
decimation: yeah, but if they can afford it they can also probably also afford to design a custom motherboard
asciilifeform: economy of scale
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38444 @ 0.0003267 = 12.5597 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: can get that many more generic turdboards for same price
asciilifeform: ever since the '1024 chickens' transition, that is generally how it was done
asciilifeform: folks with infinite money do bake own mb, yes
asciilifeform: but even there, there are not ten thousand on one board
asciilifeform: usually there is some interconnection bus.
asciilifeform: (between boards)
decimation: the original 'cray' machines used differential ecl lines
asciilifeform: 'hippi' aha
asciilifeform: or what was it.
decimation: "Each cable between the modules was a twisted pair, cut to a specific length in order to guarantee the signals arrived at precisely the right time and minimize electrical reflection. Each signal produced by the ECL circuitry was a differential pair, so the signals were balanced. " < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cray-1
asciilifeform: exotic then, but today every piece of shit lcd is plugged in through something entirely like this.
decimation: heh yeah. or pcie
asciilifeform: just about anything.
asciilifeform: try find a pc mb without 'meanders'
decimation: well, with clock rates above 500 mhz, your pcb starts to look like an rf transmission line
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45800 @ 0.00032774 = 15.0105 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> arguably none of the others needed to be learned.. randomize usr eh.
mircea_popescu: "and managing locking somehow" win of the day award lol ☟︎
mircea_popescu: alternatively, it would be 72 cubits high, translucent, ageless, nonmenstruating and deliver pregnancy to term within the day
mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/stoya/status/604010790950150144
mircea_popescu: mostly because http://trenchcoatx.com/about lulz. "We believe in high quality product, fair prices for the consumer, and fair pay for the people who work for us. Right now we’re in beta, figuring out how these values fit into today’s adult entertainment industry. "
mircea_popescu: glhf. the problems of being born in the 80s, ie, too late.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4306 @ 0.0003267 = 1.4068 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57650 @ 0.00031605 = 18.2203 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32301 @ 0.00031404 = 10.1438 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74936 @ 0.00031404 = 23.5329 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59582 @ 0.00031404 = 18.7111 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71350 @ 0.0003135 = 22.3682 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37600 @ 0.00031331 = 11.7805 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36000 @ 0.00031104 = 11.1974 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53850 @ 0.00030766 = 16.5675 BTC [-] {3}
punkman: http://arstechnica.co.uk/business/2015/05/data-furnaces-arrive-in-europe-free-heating-if-you-have-fibre-internet/ ☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: amusingly, this is EXACTLY how communists ran their industry in romania of the 60s
mircea_popescu: "free heating if you live next to a mfg plant!"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12900 @ 0.00031723 = 4.0923 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: "eRadiators makes the data more secure: "It becomes nearly impossible to know what data is where, when it is there and how to get to it," Nerdalize's Florian Schneider told the BBC."
mircea_popescu: yeah, right.
mircea_popescu: and i have a bridge to sell.
punkman: I wonder how they'll keep the workload at 1kw when the box doesn't have work to do, run some useless code?
punkman: maybe cpu-mine bitcoin for a couple satoshis :P
punkman: mircea_popescu: "free heating if you live next to a mfg plant!" << "Academica has installed a new 2MW database server centre ... Water warmed while cooling the servers will go on to provide heat for 500 homes or 1,000 flats ... After the heat is extracted, the water will be recycled back to cool the servers again."
punkman: not a bad approach if you don't have to suffer the smog I guess
punkman: !up Vexual
Vexual: lol tamper proof, not in my loungeroom
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 119250 @ 0.00032727 = 39.0269 BTC [+] {4}
punkman: and some frenchies with the same idea http://www.qarnot-computing.com/technology
Vexual: id put a little rainbow sticker on a kb and get alf and mp 'round with a case of cognac
Vexual: tell em its a z80
scoopbot_revived: Planes, trains, automobiles, and atomic dirigibles der Schweiz. http://www.contravex.com/2015/05/29/planes-trains-automobiles-and-atomic-dirigibles-der-schweiz/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31700 @ 0.00031666 = 10.0381 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29934 @ 0.00031538 = 9.4406 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00032869 = 5.1933 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31458 @ 0.00033063 = 10.401 BTC [+] {4}
jurov: <ben_vulpes> quick poll: who writes in cursive? << i do, but for internal use only. block letters otherwise ☟︎
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29187 @ 0.00033108 = 9.6632 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8432 @ 0.00032533 = 2.7432 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30300 @ 0.00032866 = 9.9584 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26200 @ 0.00033153 = 8.6861 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8850 @ 0.00032712 = 2.895 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34900 @ 0.00032712 = 11.4165 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42800 @ 0.00032449 = 13.8882 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53750 @ 0.00031517 = 16.9404 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: and in other news, http://sidewalkcircus.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/baskethead.jpg
mircea_popescu: punkman the correct way to do this would be with heat exchangers of course.
mircea_popescu: but the arrangement prolly more expensive than the dc
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20300 @ 0.00032721 = 6.6424 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 83 @ 0.0151 = 1.2533 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50469 @ 0.00033203 = 16.7572 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13550 @ 0.00033269 = 4.5079 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52500 @ 0.0003331 = 17.4878 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66200 @ 0.00033042 = 21.8738 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52100 @ 0.00033344 = 17.3722 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48500 @ 0.00031737 = 15.3924 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32800 @ 0.00031571 = 10.3553 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: ;;later tell Vexual maxpeers 1 addpeer local doesn't test behaviour against torrential 'orphan' crapolade, and other wild things
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103700 @ 0.0003328 = 34.5114 BTC [+] {2}
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: in other news,
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/heap_195115_MEM_LIVE.txt and http://www.loper-os.org/pub/heap_195115_MEM_MAX.txt
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30256 @ 0.00033413 = 10.1094 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-05-2015#1147610 << notice that it wants to vent to the street if you don't want the heat. let me guess, air intake is -not- selectable. this means that it would eat your air-conditioned air in the summer, heat it, and blow to the street. scam. ☝︎☟︎
assbot: Logged on 29-05-2015 07:42:01; punkman: http://arstechnica.co.uk/business/2015/05/data-furnaces-arrive-in-europe-free-heating-if-you-have-fibre-internet/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23694 @ 0.00033482 = 7.9332 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-05-2015#1147596 << laugh, but it isn't so hard if you are emulating ordinary sdram. if one side issues a write cycle, the other gets a wait-state signal (gets to think that the dram is in refresh state) ☝︎☟︎
assbot: Logged on 29-05-2015 05:34:06; mircea_popescu: "and managing locking somehow" win of the day award lol
asciilifeform: ;;later tell jurov 'Source Code Browser' link on http://thebitcoin.foundation/index.html appears to point to unpatched generic 0.5.3 ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18800 @ 0.00031508 = 5.9235 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/heap_195921_end_total.txt << totals after we sigterm bitcoind
asciilifeform: ^ not especially useful, afaik
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50300 @ 0.000321 = 16.1463 BTC [+] {2}
mod6 looks
mod6: btw my test with both of your patches {thermonuke} + {tx amputation} is at 193988
asciilifeform: mod6: post pmap -x -p [yourprocessid] plz
mod6: ok. -p doens't seem to be a thing...
mod6: one sec
mod6: http://dpaste.com/12NDD1X.txt
asciilifeform: ty mod6
mod6: np
asciilifeform: the interesting number, btw, is 269868 ☟︎
asciilifeform: (current total of 'dirty pages')
asciilifeform: in kB
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72450 @ 0.00033494 = 24.2664 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14247 @ 0.00033507 = 4.7737 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29150 @ 0.00033507 = 9.7673 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 216242 @ 0.00032483 = 70.2419 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6144 @ 0.00033507 = 2.0587 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: Oh lol, Gavin might run of to HearnCoin http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/message/34155307/
BingoBoingo: Obligatory Derpatary wit much Hernia https://archive.is/SNAlx
BingoBoingo: !up phf
phf: thanks
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9600 @ 0.00032923 = 3.1606 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: !up thestringpuller
BingoBoingo: !up phf
danielpbarron: !up rwg
rwg: hello
rwg: about to head out.
rwg: packing the car lol
danielpbarron: no problem; i'll keep upping you till you get a gpg key registered
rwg: lol
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu asciilifeform : http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/message/34155307/ << this nigga has declared war on the anti-forkers... seems like spinning wheels but knowing hearn, we'll likely see an XT release with the 20MB removed.
thestringpuller: now that axe-time is essentially at doorstep...
punkman: heh http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/bitcoin-development/thread/CANEZrP15X2JbMazMN7Rw2oxums6X-D3m5zBP02YoqTa6UTzfHQ%40mail.gmail.com/
punkman: "There's a feeling on this list that there's no consensus, or that Gavin and myself are on the wrong side of it. I'd put it differently - there's very strong consensus out in the wider community and this list is something of an aberration." ☟︎
danielpbarron: EPiSKiNG-, this letter http://qntra.net/2015/05/ulbricht-to-be-sentenced-friday/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18468 @ 0.00033147 = 6.1216 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6750 @ 0.00033147 = 2.2374 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.Cusipzzz.-1:aa2a317c92fbd75f2a22c41ad0c1e50143a0b05f2b9b8e6adcb1995a92ca2b32 ☟︎
assbot: Successfully added a rating of -1 for Cusipzzz with note: banned me from -otc for speaking out against the fork
scoopbot_revived: Gavin Threatens to Quit Bitcoin Development and Join Hearn's Fork http://qntra.net/2015/05/gavin-threatens-to-quit-bitcoin-development-and-join-hearns-fork/
danielpbarron: !gettrust assbot Cusipzzz
assbot: Trust relationship from user assbot to user Cusipzzz: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 2 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=Cusipzzz | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/Cusipzzz/
danielpbarron: :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33500 @ 0.00033147 = 11.1042 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: !up thestringpuller
BingoBoingo: !up Xuthus
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36892 @ 0.00032923 = 12.146 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47271 @ 0.00033544 = 15.8566 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55936 @ 0.0003363 = 18.8113 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: Phuctor is closing in on half a million moduli
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17850 @ 0.00033713 = 6.0178 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
danielpbarron: !up sinetek
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66700 @ 0.00033433 = 22.2998 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3450 @ 0.00033713 = 1.1631 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54735 @ 0.00033715 = 18.4539 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52100 @ 0.0003376 = 17.589 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 130350 @ 0.00033794 = 44.0505 BTC [+] {3}
mod6: !up ascii_field
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35158 @ 0.0003334 = 11.7217 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_field: l0l re: hearniacoin
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10107 @ 0.0003289 = 3.3242 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55600 @ 0.00032766 = 18.2179 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6532 @ 0.00033008 = 2.1561 BTC [+]
jurov: asciilifeform: why do you think? the patches are not there? unless i made a mistake, it is the result of mod6's release build script
jurov: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000069.html guess imma check against this
jurov: mod6 why did you change directory layout in the .tar.gz? i either lose the ability ot compare it to other versions, or lose all files like README, auto.sh that are on the top level
jurov: (the latter happened in this case)
jurov: and looks like nobody ever followed the manual when submitting additional signatures to the turdatron :(
mod6: huh?
mod6 looks
jurov: mod6: original releases have src folder one level deep, your has it two
mod6: yeah, this is where these artifacts needed to be.
jurov: and it's ever more important than consistency for comparisons?
mod6: it didn't make sense to me to build boost, openssl and bdb under the "bitcoin" directory.
mod6: I didn't have any clue this would impact anything that you had working.
jurov: now you do. it does break recusrive diff
mod6: where are you having issues with this?
jurov: i will have to flatten the hierarchy before feeding it to lxr browser ( and if you will move files further around, undo that as well)
jurov: if it was convenience for build script, usually build scripts create new directories for their dirty stuff anyway, so i don't see the problem there
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50850 @ 0.00032563 = 16.5583 BTC [-] {2}
felipelalli: hi friends! If I want to sell 1000 BTC in Italy, is that easy to make this off-exchange? Any useful contacts?
jurov: you need them how quickly?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55896 @ 0.00032434 = 18.1293 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: http://reason.com/blog/2015/05/29/ross-ulbricht-gets-life-in-silk-roa ☟︎
trinque: yep, they're thowing away the key
trinque: *throwing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12932 @ 0.00032167 = 4.1598 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48278 @ 0.00031725 = 15.3162 BTC [-]
jurov: https://twitter.com/chijs/status/603599293602234368 free led bulbs!!!11 :DDD
jurov: no need to fuss with cable tv boxes, even
ascii_field: 'Bitfury developed a light bulb that automatically mines Bitcoin when you screw it in' << for usg, aha
trinque: has the govt announced an auction for the rest of ulbricht's coin?
ascii_field: trinque: didn't agent force walk with it ?
trinque: not sure how much he made off with
trinque: http://www.forbes.com/sites/katevinton/2015/03/30/two-former-federal-agents-charged-with-stealing-bitcoin-during-silk-road-investigation/ << claims 20k were stolen by the agents ☟︎
decimation: ascii_field: more interesting is this case: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/05/28/former-house-speaker-dennis-hastert-indicted/
ascii_field: decimation: http://qntra.net/2015/05/former-us-house-speaker-indicted-on-attempting-to-evade-financial-surveillance
decimation: he was indicted by a grand jury for... not telling usg what he was going to do with his cash
trinque: "structuring"
decimation: did you read the indictment?
ascii_field: aha
decimation: it's fucked up. if there's any good call for jury anullment, this is it
trinque: I have not, taking a look
ascii_field: cattle vote precisely as ordered to - whether at election or in jury
decimation: now you know the reality is that the press and the prosecutors are going to talk about how he was dirty bastard or whatever
decimation: but the actual fact is that he didn't submit to the government spies who work in his bank
decimation: !up ascii_field
decimation: another point to note - if the former speaker of the house/k street lobbyist can't access cash in an anonymous way, what chance to regular people have? ☟︎
trinque: I wonder if it will ever be known how many usg intelligence agents have been planted in various public offices
trinque: judges, so on
decimation: trinque: there's not need. the bank is illegal if it doesn't comply
trinque: perhaps just being a part of the same govt is enough for them to help each other
trinque: does seem though that certain things always find a willing judge
decimation: well, they are elected by the same cattle generally
trinque: I always think of Jessie Ventura's story about being summoned to DC for questioning by the CIA
trinque: topic of "where the fuck did you come from?"
ascii_field: <decimation> another point to note - if the former speaker of the house/k street lobbyist can't access cash in an anonymous way, what chance to regular people have? << if he is on trial, then it follows that he first fell from grace ☟︎
felipelalli: jurov: I'm not sure yet, it is not for me, but to my father. As soon I have more details, can I contact you in pvt?
ascii_field: otherwise he would be untouchable
decimation: yeah, somebody somewhere pulled the trigger, no doubt
decimation: probably because of political enmity or whatever
jurov: felipelalli: yes you can
felipelalli: jurov: thank you.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54000 @ 0.00031714 = 17.1256 BTC [-] {3}
danielpbarron: https://i.imgur.com/OEqzSmC.png >> ...that thumbnail...
jurov: win.
trinque: ahaha
trinque: opening trilema in public is always a dice roll
jurov: felipelalli: i recommend explaining to your father asap that it's better not to sell whole package at once
felipelalli: jurov: I said that to him. He said he'll study to keep (or distribute) some part in bitcoin. I already found sellers here in Brazil.
trinque: decimation: in reading the indictment of the former speaker, the terrible consequences of using "intent" as a legal concept are apparent
trinque: allows for a black hole of thoughtcrime charges
williamdunne: felipelalli: You want to sell? I might be able to organize this for you
williamdunne: !gettrust williamdunne felipelalli
assbot: Trust relationship from user williamdunne to user felipelalli: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=williamdunne&to=felipelalli | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/felipelalli/
trinque: it also brings to mind the way these things develop, where first intent may be something which increases or decreases the legal severity of some other crime, but over time becomes a crime all its own ☟︎
felipelalli: williamdunne: move usd from Brazil to Italy. My father is studying to use bitcoin. A Brazilian exchange is helping me with that but the problem now is find buyers in Italy.
felipelalli: williamdunne: are you Italian?
williamdunne: I am not italian but I have access to euro
williamdunne: You don't need money in Italy, you need money in Europe
williamdunne: All the same money..
williamdunne: But yes, I can't organize 200k in cash but I can probably find a buyer via bank transfer
felipelalli: williamdunne: they can make free transfer between different countries?
williamdunne: Yes, but why would you care about free on a deal that large?
felipelalli: williamdunne: "free" I mean cheap.
williamdunne: Yeah one or two euro
felipelalli: it's free :)
williamdunne: Aha, well yes. But on 1000 bitcoin even a wire transfer at 20 euros isn't really a problem :D
felipelalli: sure!! :)
williamdunne: But yes, do you need this? I will speak to someone
felipelalli: But 1% would be a problem.
williamdunne: Sure
felipelalli: I have to talk with him again. I'm waiting his call.
felipelalli: thank you guys.
williamdunne: Sure thing, I'll PM you if I know someone interested
jurov: wiring 200k euro isn't a problem if you're a company that does it like, every month
williamdunne: Yeah thats fine, I could handle that
scoopbot_revived: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced To Life In Prison http://qntra.net/2015/05/ross-ulbricht-sentenced-to-life-in-prison/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31700 @ 0.00032949 = 10.4448 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10699 @ 0.00032904 = 3.5204 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66800 @ 0.00032974 = 22.0266 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: hey check it out, nsa-dev goes to join ver-foundation in the pile of relevancy ?
mircea_popescu: this is good for bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: !rated sipa
assbot: You have not rated sipa.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell sipa if you want to join #b-a and actually work on bitcoin for a change, i'll rate you so you can voice. ☟︎
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: !rated BlueMatt
assbot: You rated user BlueMatt on 06-May-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: one of the very few dudes in -dev actually doing something useful..
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell BlueMatt if you want to join #b-a and actually work on bitcoin for a change, you have a rating already, so you can voice.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-05-2015#1147610 << incidentally, the fact that this has been funded is proof positive that bezzle IT industry broadly agrees with me : moore's law is dead. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-05-2015 07:42:01; punkman: http://arstechnica.co.uk/business/2015/05/data-furnaces-arrive-in-europe-free-heating-if-you-have-fibre-internet/
mircea_popescu: there's no expectation the contents of the boxes be obsolete any time before it amortises.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-05-2015#1147632 << i do, whenever i write by hand. the women and nurses can usually read it, but not really anyone else. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-05-2015 10:00:11; jurov: <ben_vulpes> quick poll: who writes in cursive? << i do, but for internal use only. block letters otherwise
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-05-2015#1147659 << obviously eats your air. engineering assumption being "where could we get a fixed 20 degrees source ?", otherwise who'd bother with the meatsacks. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-05-2015 13:35:27; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-05-2015#1147610 << notice that it wants to vent to the street if you don't want the heat. let me guess, air intake is -not- selectable. this means that it would eat your air-conditioned air in the summer, heat it, and blow to the street. scam. ☟︎
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36255 @ 0.00033716 = 12.2237 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-05-2015#1147662 << in principle, but this is eminently one of those cases where the difference between theory and practice is that in practice theory does not exist. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-05-2015 13:39:18; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-05-2015#1147596 << laugh, but it isn't so hard if you are emulating ordinary sdram. if one side issues a write cycle, the other gets a wait-state signal (gets to think that the dram is in refresh state)
mircea_popescu: "in theory, there's no difference between theory and practice, while in practice theory does not exist." fify!
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-05-2015#1147678 << does your 32 mb inner core feel encouraged by this ? :D ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-05-2015 14:03:10; asciilifeform: the interesting number, btw, is 269868
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45050 @ 0.00033891 = 15.2679 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: as BingoBoingo points out, this has been a very high lulz week.
mircea_popescu: price increase incoming ?
BingoBoingo: MPOE price is moving up
mircea_popescu: oh that it is huh.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, the one interesting tidbit in all this : one difference between current bitcoin and hearn-bitcoin is that the latter replaces Jeff Garzik's DNS seed with the seed run by one Addy Yeow.
BingoBoingo: Also this is only high lolz compared to recent weeks. We're probably still below December's lolz levels still.
mircea_popescu: rather than simply getting rid of it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8917 @ 0.00033066 = 2.9485 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: this should be enough indication of the importance of dns-in-bitcoin for the shitgnome. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: not just from a "must be in there for we need all the dns-carried pores imported via glibc etc", but also in the much lower level "who's in charge of the it!!1" thing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32533 @ 0.00032246 = 10.4906 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: (addy yeow aka ayeowch, "bitnodes" bs)
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-05-2015#1147702 << "the troops are just right over the horizon" and "real america supports me, for i am not a crook". ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-05-2015 16:18:27; punkman: "There's a feeling on this list that there's no consensus, or that Gavin and myself are on the wrong side of it. I'd put it differently - there's very strong consensus out in the wider community and this list is something of an aberration."
BingoBoingo: Ah, the nodecounter that only counts post Hearnfork1 nodes
mircea_popescu: is socialism ever getting a new playbook ?
BingoBoingo: Of course software developers get no say. The say goes to the content farms in the Phillipines.
mircea_popescu: "i paid someone to make five hundred thousand fake facebook pages that like me, SO THERE1!1"
mircea_popescu: anyway, gavin best lolcow of 2015.
mircea_popescu: i remember the sad days when all we had was kludge the banker and ponzi the smooth operator.
mircea_popescu: got slightly better once mtgox got finished, but not by much. that year's lolcow promotion was delulded fatso, the pageantry genius with her "chamber of commerce", that schmuck in ny that meanwhile got sent to "privately practice" with his privates...
mircea_popescu: 2014 wasn't altogether bad, but it doesn't hold a candle to 2015 so far.
mircea_popescu: drastically humiliated cantor fitzgerald vp, drastically humiliated nsa assets, i can't wait for autumn.
mircea_popescu: oh, and lets not forget http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-05-2015#1147141 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 28-05-2015 22:27:06; cazalla: i'm sure there is a better way to do it but relying on archive.today probably isn't that great an idea but not sure what else to do (for example, all the bitcoin auction stuff has been completely removed from the US Marshall's website)
BingoBoingo: "muricademia also getting pretty lulzy this year http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/05/29/laura_kipnis_title_ix_investigation_feminism_political_correctness_controversy.html
mircea_popescu: mildly humiliated us marshalls service and slightly more humiliated federal prosecutors. tho both of these being public servants, they can do a lot better than this.
mircea_popescu: slate still exists huh
BingoBoingo: Yeah, hard for them not too.
BingoBoingo: They still have enough name of their own that they can cut their expenses gawker style without collecting as much gawker stench
mircea_popescu: now this is a point
mircea_popescu: gawker was somehow the loss leader in that, but otherwise "industry"-wide it's been a serious case of "work for free or don't work at all, for money there isn't".
cazalla: i overstated that tbh.. most of it has been removed, there are a few remnants but the majority is gone
mircea_popescu: which, inasmuch as it's factually correct, is what it is.
mircea_popescu: cazalla screenshotted teh remnants ?
mircea_popescu: "On Friday, Kipnis published another piece in the Chronicle, revealing that, in a twist that's ironic on more than one level, she is now the subject of an investigation into graduate student complaints that her earlier column and a subsequent tweet violated Title IX, the law that prohibits sex descrimination in education."
mircea_popescu: i do not get how this is "ironic"
cazalla: most of it is pdf and xls files such as www.usmarshals.gov/readingroom/foia_logs/2014_foia_log.xlsx
mircea_popescu: inasmuch as the woman's public communication is being indicted for failing to kow-tow to idiocy, it'd seem this is just cultural-revolution style maoism.
cazalla: still shows foia requests unresolved
mircea_popescu: cazalla ahahaha idiots. same derps did this purge job that did thew original reddit "bitcoin blocks consensus" purge job ?
BingoBoingo: Ironically the definition of irony used on the ESL interwebz has expanded so much it has no meaning. It nao has as much meaning as "a" or "the"