deedbot-: [Qntra] Khmer Rouge Leader Pleas Social Justice In Court - http://qntra.net/2016/02/khmer-rouge-leader-pleas-social-justice-in-court/
pete_dushenski immediately thought of http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=20-01-2016#1378005 only to realise that he was racialistically lumping all the s.e. asian 20th century massacres together☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-01-2016 01:24:01; asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu ever see film http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2375605 ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81400 @ 0.00057322 = 46.6601 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: for shame.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71550 @ 0.00056821 = 40.6554 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Gotta keep them straight. What if you must leave America's hat for the malarial side of the ocean?
pete_dushenski: america's hat's pretty enormous. there's always another corner of desolate tundra with satellite internet to set up camp in.
BingoBoingo: I guess you just have to stay one step ahead of the sandminers?
pete_dushenski: sandniggers too.
mod6 reads
mod6: <ben_vulpes> b-b-...5.sh works fine on something approaching a sane computer << ok cool!
mod6: <+jurov> mod6 it did compiled! << wonderful!
ben_vulpes: that sweet song of "clean socks for you! clean shirts for you!"
mod6: nice
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51800 @ 0.00056275 = 29.1505 BTC [-] {3}
phf: asciilifeform: around?
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: just in.
phf: i can't figure out which patches are actually shiva patches. there's "(EXPERIMENTAL) Introducing: Shiva." and then sometime after there's "Tinyscheme Genesis, Cleanup, and Fixes, CORRECTED; -and- Shiva Pedigree Bridge."
phf: i take it the combination of the two is what one uses to press shiva?
asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000201.html << this and this only.
assbot: [BTC-dev] Tinyscheme Genesis, Cleanup, and Fixes, CORRECTED; -and- Shiva Pedigree Bridge. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SfJl8P )
asciilifeform: please throw out the old crud.
asciilifeform: afaik we don't presently have a vtron that is capable of digesting everything incl. the old crud.
asciilifeform: the pedigree bridge isn't for pressing either.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32841 @ 0.0005596 = 18.3778 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: it exists to ~demonstrate~ that shiva-tinyscheme was created from the tinyscheme-genesis
asciilifeform: you can in fact do this, by pressing the latter, and then the former
asciilifeform: but this is unfortunately not a vtronic operation, because we have idiot diff and not a turing-complete vtron.
phf: but none of these patches contain code that actually touches the bitcoin source
asciilifeform: only shiva-part-2
asciilifeform: which necessarily does
asciilifeform: the split was deliberate
phf: ooh, so shiva part 2 is the btc tree thing, where's the tinyscheme genesis is where you get the tinyscheme dependency?
asciilifeform: in same link.
asciilifeform: or rather, that link ~is~ tinyscheme-genesis
phf: right
asciilifeform: the bridge, if applied, will turn the tinyscheme into the contents of the shiva subdir in shiva-part-1
asciilifeform: (you will have to rename the dir manually, because DIFF IS RETARDED)
asciilifeform: and MUST DIE
asciilifeform: currenly shiva is http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000198.html ~~AND~~ http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000202.html .
assbot: [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Introducing: Shiva. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SN6qPP )
assbot: [BTC-dev] Shiva bug fix. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pq7ven )
asciilifeform: ^^ the only things you need to actually build it ^^
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-02-2016#1411228 << sooo we have the long-awaited miner usgization ?☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 23:02:29; mircea_popescu: nobody is to use AntPool, A-XBT, Bitfinex, BitFury, Bitmain, BIT-X Exchange, Blockcloud, BTCC, Coinfloor, F2Pool, HaoBTC, Ledger, LIGHTNINGASIC & BitExchange, OKCoin or Spondoolies-Tech for any purpose under any circumstances, or ever hire anyone who ever worked there.
mircea_popescu: whatever this is.
mircea_popescu: odds are it's like last time "they lied about me agreeing", etc.
mircea_popescu: but whatevs it may be.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33883 @ 0.0005596 = 18.9609 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: so i reread the mega-thread,
asciilifeform: and tentatively conclude that mircea_popescu wants everybody to have own vtree
deedbot-: [Trilema] Valmont - http://trilema.com/2016/valmont/
asciilifeform: and hand-backport whenever these are to converge.
asciilifeform: which is sorta like what we did before v.
asciilifeform: now, this makes life very easy for mircea_popescu, or so he thinks, because he can go 'i want a mod6 tree'
asciilifeform: except - 1) he still have to get the actual contents of that thing somewhere
asciilifeform: 2) what if he wants, e.g., a mod6+ben_vulpes tree.
asciilifeform: but i see what he wants in http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-02-2016#1411191 say.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 22:22:12; mircea_popescu: people in the senate floor of the most serene republic notice the silly things the kids are doing in bed these days and lo! ben_vulpes signs it, which makes that snipped suddenly go into a bunch of servers.
asciilifeform: for there to not be any such thing as could resemble an 'update throne'
asciilifeform: that a derp could one day sit down on.
asciilifeform: but i say that the proposed method of achieving this, is rather primitive and by no means reliable.
asciilifeform: it is quite the same as 'we will abolish indoor spaces! no palaces, so there can be no thrones'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100650 @ 0.0005663 = 56.9981 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-02-2016#1411126 << does mircea_popescu fully understand that there is NO MACHINE MERGING in v ?☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 21:52:20; mircea_popescu: the idea is to have diverse coder process, and a lot of fuckign toi land trouble on tghe coders, for maximal output quality.\
asciilifeform: that is, if we end up in the position where every developer has own tree, and mircea_popescu is not content to go, e.g., 'gimme what mod6 has' - then ~mircea_popescu~ will have to 'toil and trouble' and hand-merge ?
asciilifeform: the machine - will not do it !
asciilifeform: and yes, this is mega-decentralized and entirely unlike what gavin does and etc. etc.
asciilifeform: why not we also hang upside-down while doing it.
asciilifeform: will be even more ungavin.
BingoBoingo: http://trilema.com/2016/valmont/#comment-116588
assbot: Valmont on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1QRuXhe )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is a defensible perspective but it leaves me wondering wtf you were doing when founded a trb foundation ! a throne omg!!1111111
BingoBoingo: so, Inversion tables join "edgerouter lite" on TMSR shopping list?
mircea_popescu: a throne what ?
asciilifeform: see thread
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ??
mircea_popescu: i am but i dun follow.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: For hanging upside down
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a centralized thing! that an idiot one day could get to the wheel of !
mircea_popescu: the foundation ?
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: it's just a convenience. it's not a fucking usg tendril.
asciilifeform: vs every man with own manually-curated tree
asciilifeform: aha, convenience.
mircea_popescu: right.
asciilifeform: but ~what~ does it make convenient ?
asciilifeform: as i understand, it is a thing that mircea_popescu considers sinful ?
asciilifeform: that is, folks agreeing to work on a same tree
mircea_popescu: principally atm, that mod6 is running like a mad dog trying to keep on top of everyone's patches.
mircea_popescu: i don't see folks agreeing to anything. i see mod6 putting in a lot of blood.
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 462 @ 0.00254173 = 1.1743 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: this is as it should be, incidentally, tho the original design was for there to be 2 people who then add more.
asciilifeform: iirc he was mainly bleeding to get his vtron up to par ?
asciilifeform: (which is a mighty spiffy thing!)
mircea_popescu: well, without getting into the nitty details.
mircea_popescu: but the point remains : having a trb foundation on the solid foundation of a v environment IS a convenience.
mircea_popescu: having a centralising pos a la vessenes faux foundation on top of the broken process non-v, is a disaster.
mircea_popescu: a disaster ot which naggum's lifeless body doth attest.
asciilifeform: i don't see prb or the xml circus as 'good people, good intentions, bad tool'
mircea_popescu: bad ~environment~.
asciilifeform: i see it as imbeciles setting out to do evil things and succeeding.
mircea_popescu: this is your privilege, as a believer in animism.
asciilifeform: and the few intelligent, honest folk, along for the ride
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, reality contains no divine manifestation.
asciilifeform: because there was no other ride.
mircea_popescu: the fact remains that in all attempts of building things atop non-v environments (specifically : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-02-2016#1411198 ) result in the same thing.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 22:25:16; mircea_popescu: the important parts here being that v does away with the concept of developer control over code ; and with the concept of code ownership ; and instead introduces the concept of signature-driven responsibility.
mircea_popescu: you choose to view this as a sign of the omnipotence of usg.
mircea_popescu: it is not, but merely the necessary result of trying to keep milk in reed baskets.
asciilifeform: actually it is the omnipotence of regression-to-the-mean
mircea_popescu: whatever you call the deity today.
asciilifeform: this one has demonstrable teeth.
asciilifeform: witness nick-2 vs peter-1
mircea_popescu: they all have demonstrable teeth.
asciilifeform: or the hapsburgs, etc.
asciilifeform: lulzy how this is the exact inverse of the lisp machine thread !
asciilifeform: holy shit.
mircea_popescu: :)
mircea_popescu: the face of alf when he becomes privy to the evil matroshka mp, whereby he only argues things one way for the ease of arguing other things later.
asciilifeform: quite.
asciilifeform: https://cryptome.org/2016/02/usg-apple-edny-026-027.pdf >>> http://dpaste.com/3ACY3QB.txt << moar lulz
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1QRw54h )
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1QRw54n )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> 2) what if he wants, e.g., a mod6+ben_vulpes tree. << in general it's to be expected you'd see a lot of replication of code.
mircea_popescu: much like dna works, actually.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu doesn't seem to give the least damn about sweat, so long as it is not off his own back. 'who cares how many zeks it takes to build belomor canal' ?
mircea_popescu: trust that it is the right approach.
asciilifeform: whereas he ought to understand that he is squandering a ~finite~ resource.
mircea_popescu: if you wish to care about sweat you'll end up with the maggots on the meat.
asciilifeform: we have ddt for this.
mircea_popescu: similarly moscow university teacher does not care about candle burn.
mircea_popescu: "who cares how many nights student has to stay up until x clicks in his head"
asciilifeform: this is different.
mircea_popescu: if it is you'll have to show it.
asciilifeform: this is making the student peel potatoes 18 hr. a day.
asciilifeform: the work that goes into 'regrinding' is idiot waste.
mircea_popescu: but in any case, what i expect in practice is - a lot of cross signing, of people who know each other ; and a ready spot for corporate investment. "make me a mod6+alf patch" is a job.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> the work that goes into 'regrinding' is idiot waste. << it is NOT waste. not anymore than the work that goes into brushing teeth is idiot waste.
mircea_popescu: "why should i talk to the woman ebfore fucking her!!11"
mircea_popescu: reading the fucking code is not time wasted, keeping you from time you could have "better" spend writing more code.
asciilifeform: one of these things is not like the other.
mircea_popescu: ACTUAL thousand eyes, mandated, by design.
BingoBoingo: Where the good lord split, not even Blockstream has internal consensus on HKGOXMTG https://archive.is/9PdE7
assbot: maaku7 comments on We have CONSENSUS! In April we get SW, 3 months later, core HF code ready ... ( http://bit.ly/1QRwNP5 )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: say we do things precisely as you described. and tomorrow i publish a patch. now everyone who wants to test it, cannot apply it at all unless he is willing to use my tree wholesale. instead he has to MANUALLY merge it in, line by line. and then i end up back-and-forth-ing over his typos for the next month, instead of doing ANYTHING else
mircea_popescu: READ IT
mircea_popescu: he has to READ IT
mircea_popescu: it is not YOUR fucking patch.
asciilifeform: and then write it.
mircea_popescu: the very concept of "my" patch has to go.
mircea_popescu: anf if "doing ANYTHING else" stands for "write more code", best outcome possible.
asciilifeform: i am reminded of the german fella who proclaimed 'the tank will be 200 tonnes and fuck you'
mircea_popescu: but the notion that code can be owned is so idiotic as not to be able to stand. it's fucking code!
asciilifeform: built 'maus', which not one bridge in europe could hold.
mircea_popescu: which was not terribly relevant : it could ford in places nobody knew there was a ford before.
asciilifeform: well sure. but did not get far.
mircea_popescu: mostly because russian mud.
asciilifeform: did it even make it that far east ?
mircea_popescu: iirc the soviets captured the prototype facility
mircea_popescu: iirc was also a locomotive type engine lol
asciilifeform: anyone recall 'landkreuzer' ?
asciilifeform: would have been, a what, 1500 tonne !
mircea_popescu: was thgat the tank-submarine ?
asciilifeform: the one with the naval cannon
mircea_popescu: the thing with emplaced coastal artillery battery ?
mircea_popescu: aha
asciilifeform: my point was that mircea_popescu is asking 'the tank must be 1,000 tonnes! because fuckyou' but from where comes the engine ?
asciilifeform: the fuel ?
mircea_popescu: are you proposing that "software must progress" ?
asciilifeform: not exactly
mircea_popescu: but ?
asciilifeform: well, take, for instance, 'shiva'
asciilifeform: does mircea_popescu want it to be finished, and replace the idiot rpc ?
asciilifeform: or waste of time ?
mircea_popescu: i see no problem with SOME software must progress. it does not follow that all must, or all should. bitcoin provably shouldn't.
mircea_popescu: i do want it to be finished.
asciilifeform: in bitcoin 'progress' just means something very different.
mircea_popescu: if it's finished before i die or after, i don't care. so long as it's finished right
mircea_popescu: and ONLY then.
asciilifeform: it means to cut out the scar tissue and replace with prosthesis.
mircea_popescu: i do not want it finished otherwise, at all.
asciilifeform: i don't see the manual monk-copying as being automagically a thing of correctness-making.
mircea_popescu: and in other interludes, http://36.media.tumblr.com/3b4fae10722803dac39d2d562407d9a0/tumblr_mkh2jfIHgw1r6qz9zo1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1QRxVlF )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you don't, do you ?
asciilifeform: (or, conversely, its absence, a ticket to prb damnation)
mircea_popescu: how do you suppose webstack became a thing ?
mircea_popescu: if not "relief from the antiquated chains of monk copying"
asciilifeform: from inferior people.
BingoBoingo: ;;google object 279
gribble: Object 279 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_279>; Object 279 - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es4Hy9VNDAc>; Object 279 Soviet Havy Tank [HD]-2014 - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjgNWD5DrNA>
asciilifeform: who, yes, had an easier time getting and staying in.
mircea_popescu: your trust in people is misplaced.
mircea_popescu: look no further than yourself : are you a bad person for living in dc ?
asciilifeform: machine is not a pill against retardation.
asciilifeform: and yes, i am.
mircea_popescu: people will do what they see around them.
mircea_popescu: i don't actually believe so.
asciilifeform: i burn in this hell because too weak to escape it, and ergo it is the correct place.
asciilifeform: it is made up of all such who are.
asciilifeform: and nobody else.
mircea_popescu: machine is not a pill against retardation. nevertheless, system is a method for limiting expression of retardation.
mircea_popescu: which is why the same proteins make dog and dog vomit.
asciilifeform: overall i agree with this, and personally i have introduced many tortures, as the folks reading have felt on own skins.
mircea_popescu: there isn't "better" carbon to make man or beast.
asciilifeform: but machine can also be fooled, in the long run, by 'exam takers.'
shinohai: ;;later tell mod6 Done: f400ba5417274972a8a0da799d916983987156f949955d2bb9c6a4f146be2b31 bitcoind
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is why the v is so important. does away with any exam.
asciilifeform: the manual merging thing is quite exam.
mircea_popescu: do tell ?
asciilifeform: it is gruntwork and the ability to do it does not correlate with anything higher.
asciilifeform: peeling potatoes.
mircea_popescu: this is a fantasm. that you'd like it be true, i believe you. that it is, i do not believe you.
asciilifeform: likewise, it is very easy to 'cheat' by applying fuzzy-diff.
mircea_popescu: what you get when you take toil out of painting is warhol. he is not an artist
asciilifeform: and then recrunching the hashes.
mircea_popescu: he is an american.
mircea_popescu: what you get when you take toil out of psychologi is lacan. he is not a psychiatrist,
mircea_popescu: he is an american.
asciilifeform: no, it is what you get when you take out the talent, and leave ~only~ the toil.
mircea_popescu: plox - the world has had enough americans. forever.
asciilifeform: the talentless wretch who is very good at sweat, and paints, paints - this is warhol.
mircea_popescu: i dun think you're familiar with the fellow ?
asciilifeform: lightly familiar
mircea_popescu: quite opposite of historical item.
asciilifeform: to the extent my stomach permitted.
mircea_popescu: your stomach misled you, methinks.
asciilifeform: but perhaps i was thinking of pollack
mircea_popescu: a different fellow.
mircea_popescu: no, warhol is a talentless dali. just as lazy.
asciilifeform: ick
mircea_popescu: to this day the only way to become a carpenter is to carpent. the only way to become a whoremonger is to fuck.
mircea_popescu: you can't be a clinician without treating people, which yes, peeliong potatoes.
mircea_popescu: the deep secret here being that the potatoes are objectionable FOR BEING POTATOES, whereas their absence is objectionable universally.
mircea_popescu: or, as tlp very well put it, "
mircea_popescu: hmmm where's that article about boring family life, and hating the boring structure but nevertheless benefitting from it
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's soliders painted quite a lot of grass fields green, and snowmen - white, didn't they.
asciilifeform: back in the day.
asciilifeform: *soldiers
asciilifeform: structure!1111
mircea_popescu: But why do we need "the balance?" What does it replace, what went missing? The very thing Holden Caufield hated: "phoniness", protocol and ritual for seemingly no purpose. Politeness is fine, but why do I have to make small talk? Why do I have to pretend to care about the weather? Why, after a decade of marriage, should dinner be a regular review of the somewhat boring goings-ons of "the day"? Because that formal
mircea_popescu: ity is freeing, it allows self-conscious physical bodies to get used to standing next to each other without having to be acting, this includes husbands and wives. When dinner is a controlled process with "manners" and expected topics of shared conversation and start and end times, as boring as it may get, it is boring, not you. Women are especially sensitive to this absence of convention, this is one reason for the p
mircea_popescu: opularity of Downton Abbey, not to mention alcohol and iphones at dinner. It is against this background of "phony" convention that teens can productively "rebel" and find their own individuality against a status quo; fighting against an emotionally illogical, arbitrary, unpredictable structure results in learning the opposite lesson, "whatever gets me through the day..." Without this structure to social activities, w
mircea_popescu: hen the "natural" conversation stops being interesting-- and it will, even if most of you weren't bad at it-- it would be a judgment about your relationship, about you. And you'll beg St. Jobs to blink a path to safety because otherwise you have to sit there with no existential support.
mircea_popescu: Texting and social media's slowness gives them their power for this purpose. You read a text, and it lingers, it keeps your attention because it's all there is; and then you respond with a piece of your real self, and wait for a response... what's happening is time travel-- while you are on pause, the rest of not-your life goes faster. It is far more efficient at killing time than a phone call.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so they did. and women beaten for cutting cabbage wrongly. and on it goes.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.0005686 = 3.4116 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: the cabbage makes sense though !
asciilifeform: correctly cut cabbage is USEFUL
mircea_popescu: everything makes sense, my dear alf, as long as the cane doesn't cut into one's own buttocks.
asciilifeform: even then it makes sense.
asciilifeform: if the cane is because forgot to put the firing pin in the kalash on reassembly
mircea_popescu: well now that we understand the positions in theory, a negotiation for functional practice may begin.
asciilifeform: and not because missed a spot of green pain when painting motherfucking grass.
asciilifeform: *paint
asciilifeform ~knows~ that the pin does not normally come out! does not need correction on subj
asciilifeform: rhetorical example. imagine we were american grunts. their pin - comes out.
mircea_popescu: aha ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45100 @ 0.00056939 = 25.6795 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: (and for the record i will point out that tlp is anglotard enough to miss most of the substance. there's perfecty good reason everyone painted the same god damned vase with two apples next to it, and this has little do to with "you're not boring son ok" and a lot of fucking things to do with ... damn, where's that thread about ther ancient battlefield ?
mircea_popescu: the one where new people see the same ravines and tend to build the same bridge long dead people saw and built ?
mircea_popescu: there's a depth acquired from "boring" narrowness of subject.
asciilifeform: i don't recall this
asciilifeform: (but would like to!)
asciilifeform: was it the intellectual-curiosity thread..?
mircea_popescu: yeah, you even commented on it at some point
asciilifeform: the one with the planar groups
mircea_popescu: damn we're not even a decade in can't find shit in the logs ;/
asciilifeform: l0lz
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in further "ceos agree to consensus" news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/78e51e7943aeb41817550b062441658a/tumblr_mw86rci4tK1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kzk5be )
asciilifeform: interesting!
asciilifeform: only one looks visibly displeased
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42470 @ 0.0005686 = 24.1484 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: the one on the left hand side : 'snore, noose'
asciilifeform: the one on right hand: 'is this ALL THE NOOSE you could SPARE!?!!'
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: and the one in the middle is all like "Shit, i really got the worst boobjob in the world"
asciilifeform: aha!
mircea_popescu: well i can't fucking find it.
phf: went to have dinner, come back, mother of logs
jurov: the v theory is fine, but in practice i'm afrain it will drive everyone attempting it insane
jurov: like mod6
mircea_popescu: insanity would be an improvement for you people.
jurov: improvement toward what?
mircea_popescu: i rest my case.
asciilifeform: related >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-11-2015#1319115 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 07-11-2015 02:32:19; asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfpq5dKnYJs << interesting sport - fake hanging
mod6: i don't think V is driving me insane. at least, I hope not. i think re-grinding is a pain, but i don't see a way around this.
mod6: shinohai: cool! thanks!
mircea_popescu: i will be off to do things with slutty girls now, bbl.
mod6: enjoy!
shinohai: >.>
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-02-2016#1410987 << me too. and i get a weird error when trying to get his key >> http://danielpbarron.com/59C36319.txt☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 20:41:35; ben_vulpes: mod6: i am *still* getting this with build-bitcoin-v99995.sh: gpg: WARNING: not a detached signature; file 'buildroot-2015.05.tar.gz' was NOT verified!
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OmNnV8 )
hanbot: mod6 ftr i'm not at all set up for proper testing atm, much as i wish i could offer something. will heads up when i'm able.
mod6: hanbot: no worries,. thanks!
phf: i split patches into patchsets http://btcbase.org/patches, http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=experimental (and http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=deprecated for historical) to minimize confusion. there's a little menu that lets you select
assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1OmNtfi )
assbot: trb ... ( http://bit.ly/1OmNtfo )
assbot: trb ... ( http://bit.ly/1OmNtfq )
mod6: danielpbarron: did you put this key 0xAB07D806D2CE741FB886EE50B025BA8B59C36319 in your gpg keyring?
mod6: along with the other 3?
danielpbarron: when i try to get it, it gives the error linked above
asciilifeform: phf: why is shiva 'deprecated' ?
mod6: how are you trying to 'get it' ?
asciilifeform: oh nm
mod6: oh
mod6: didnt see the paste /me looks
asciilifeform: phf: very spiffy
danielpbarron: i get the same error when i do the same thing with the long key id you just showed
phf: asciilifeform: should be better called "disabled", but really makes no difference
phf: also release ought to be stable
danielpbarron: regardless, the script ended with a bitcoind in rotor/TEST2/bitcoin/src/
mod6: danielpbarron: try `gpg --recv-key0xAB07D806D2CE741FB886EE50B025BA8B59C36319`
mod6: ok, well it should pull that key.
mod6: that command should ^^^
mod6: goddamn lag
danielpbarron: yeah same error
mod6: i dunno then.
phf: so without the two broken patches experimental almost presses cleanly. something wrong with polar's patches..
mod6: gab the key from the fhe keyserver andimport manually?
asciilifeform bbl
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15250 @ 0.00056654 = 8.6397 BTC [-]
mod6: and ALL: do not run this script 2x, ever. if something goes wrong, just please, start again fresh dir blow everything away except your .wot dir & contents and script.
danielpbarron: well i got a bitcoind out of it, and when i run it against my already mostly complete .bitcoin directory i got black holed; trying again now with -connect=
phf: i'm going to try and keep main patches view the same as what mod6 is releasing
mod6: blackholed?
mod6: o.O
danielpbarron: can't get a new block, just bastards and transactions that appear to be invalid
danielpbarron: but that's not necessarily the fault of your thing; i had a power outage take this machine down without properly shutting down
mod6: ah. ok
mod6: well,let us know how it goes. thanks for building.
danielpbarron: gonna try a few more times to get it to continue building on the blocks i already had, and failing that I'll try it with an empty .bitcoin directory
mod6: alright, cool
danielpbarron: oh also, in getinfo I get this >> "errors" : "WARNING: Displayed transactions may not be correct! You may need to upgrade, or other nodes may need to upgrade."
mod6: o.O
mod6: something is wrong. i dont know what.
shinohai: seems to be running fine here
mod6: ok cool
BingoBoingo: Slowed Dissent https://archive.is/6cuOR
assbot: The Bitcoin Roundtable Consensus Proposal — Too Little, Too Late — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1mPxnVx )
phf: ok so http://btcbase.org/upload now works. takes seal and vpatch and saves it to uploads patchset http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=uploads. uploads patchset inherits from experimental, which in turn inherits from stable. those who'd like to upload a patch are welcome to give it a try and let me know if it doesn't work.
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1L1rIqB )
BingoBoingo: <danielpbarron> oh also, in getinfo I get this >> "errors" : "WARNING: Displayed transactions may not be correct! You may need to upgrade, or other nodes may need to upgrade." << The hard shutdown may have left your blockchain copy corrupted at the end. Gotta get a UPS.
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: This problem happened with quantrill this week. Was unresponsive so I ordered a reboot, after reboot... holy fucksticks the disappoint.
BingoBoingo: powercycling a bitcoin node is something of a gamble
BingoBoingo: I dunno what insanity possessed me to order that reboot, when the same problem is why I got batteries and UPSs for local machines
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60630 @ 0.00056719 = 34.3887 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10620 @ 0.00057275 = 6.0826 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: phf: btcbase keeps getting niftier
ben_vulpes: but when i click the dropdown some js takes over and doesn't let me select anything
ben_vulpes: oh interesting
ben_vulpes: does not work when tabbing to the dropdown and hitting the spacebar
phf: bah, that's what i get for sprinkling some jquery on that bitch
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40400 @ 0.00056358 = 22.7686 BTC [-] {2}
phf: (i killed the js)
ben_vulpes: much better
ben_vulpes: can has submit onSelect ?
ben_vulpes: or would that be horrendously dumb
mod6: also, re: regrind, this is for sure: when doing this task, it forces you to read and understand the patch that needs regrinding. nothing wrong with this as far as I can tell.
phf: ben_vulpes: i'm not quite sure what to attach and where
phf: $('#patchset-select select').on('select', function() { alert('foo') }) doesn't do what i think it should
phf: oh, there's "change"
ben_vulpes: ah yeah change
ben_vulpes: ah jesus fuck javascript
phf: i already have jquery there because i wanted to add jumping from hunk to hunk on patch page by j/k
phf: (it works now by the way)
phf: err, both jumping from hunk to hunk and the on change
ben_vulpes: nifty phf
ben_vulpes: how are you shipping to this thing? hacking directly on the running lisp image?
phf: rsync/asdf/screen
phf: very boring :)
ben_vulpes: i appreciate boring
ben_vulpes: so does that mean no parenscript? :P
phf: alexandria cffi flexi-streams net-telent-date trivial-features usocket araneida cl-irc gpg-error rfc2388 trivial-gray-streams v babel defservice gpgme split-sequence uiop
ben_vulpes: just snarking phf
gernika: mod6 I'm stuck on the pgp issue ben_vulpes encountered. http://dpaste.com/2X6BDH8
assbot: dpaste: 2X6BDH8 ... ( http://bit.ly/1TsLi0y )
phf: :)
gernika: I have manually imported that pubkey, to no avail.
ben_vulpes: gernika does your script go so far as to exit at that point?!
mod6: *sigh*
gernika: ben_vulpes: yes
ben_vulpes: mine sailed through merrily
ben_vulpes: "what verification error?!:
mod6: the thing that bothers me, is this: all that is different about the build script itself is the version of V.
phf: so i tried installing parenscript it pulls in all kinds of retarded. i don't even. anaphora, named-readtables.
mod6: so why didnt we have this trouble a few weeks ago?
ben_vulpes: mod6: are you even certain there was a 'we' running this a few weeks ago?
ben_vulpes: and not just a 'you' and a very sleep deprived and useless me?
mod6: ummm. yes?
mod6: we all went through this with V99996
mod6: back around the 28th.
mod6: gernika: do you have this fine somewhere in your build env? buildroot-2015.05.tar.gz.sign ?
mod6: s/fine/file
gernika: mod6 I have that fine file in rotor :)
ben_vulpes: (girl hands me child, i place child on floor, "you know precisely what i do when you hand him to me, you could just save us the fifteen seconds and put him on the floor yourself")
mod6: gernika: what happens if you're in the rotor dir and you do `gpg --verify buildroot-2015.05.tar.gz.sign` ?
gernika: mod6: the exact same message as in the dpaste.
gernika: ok interesting
mod6: what does this say `gpg --fingerprint 0xAB07D806D2CE741FB886EE50B025BA8B59C36319` ?
gernika: same for previous version of the file
ben_vulpes: mod6: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-08-2015#1246638 << this has been a known issue since august 2015☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 02:24:26; danielpbarron: gpg: WARNING: not a detached signature; file 'buildroot-2015.05.tar.gz' was NOT verified!
ben_vulpes: waitwait hang on
mod6: ben_vulpes: can you identify why this is an issue?
BingoBoingo: In other news Jeb quit.
mod6: gernika: <+mod6> what does this say `gpg --fingerprint 0xAB07D806D2CE741FB886EE50B025BA8B59C36319` ?
phf: i proposed a solution to that problem. have a set of gpg commands that work with .wot. so something like vgpg verify file, will 1) tmp=mktemp -d gpgxxxx 2) gpg --homedir $tmp --import wot/*.asc 3) gpg --homedir $tmp --verify 4) rm -rf $tmp, so that no foundation operations ever work with ~/.gnupg and always work with ~/.wot
ben_vulpes: mod6: because gpg says the signature isn't actually verified!
ben_vulpes: unless it's lying and it is verifying the signature anyways
mod6: it does for me
gernika: mod6: http://dpaste.com/3XAZ46P
assbot: dpaste: 3XAZ46P ... ( http://bit.ly/1TsMa5e )
mod6: http://dpaste.com/1J5910T.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1TsMaCa )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24450 @ 0.0005633 = 13.7727 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: phf: you'll note that's more or less exactly what my v does
mod6: well, im fuckin stumped. this is crazy
BingoBoingo: Nevar forget https://archive.is/dKz2d
assbot: Sad Jeb Bush Is Just Sitting Up At Night, Waiting To Chat About Football With You ... ( http://bit.ly/1TsMroS )
phf: ben_vulpes: that's what all v's do, but we also have this auxiliary operations before the press that require calling gpg --verify
phf: *these
mod6: i disagree, totally, that V should contain any functionallity to validate anything outside of the V tree, contained in the patches dir.
ben_vulpes: yeah the v-wrapping build scripts don't isolate themselves from the user keyring.
ben_vulpes: mod6: nobody's saying that buildroot should be v-verified, but that not isolating buildscripts from the user gpg keyring is...not great.
mod6: ok perhaps
ben_vulpes: if asciilifeform hadn't already declared himself to not touch anything that brought anything down from the net he'd be complaining about all of the above as well
phf: mod6: that's not what i'm proposing
mod6: but this problem isn't realted to that.
ben_vulpes: sure, no.
mod6: for some reason, this guys friggin thing apparently wont verify, except for me. i seem to be the only one who has a gpg & his key that'll verify this damn thing
ben_vulpes: gernika: gpg version?
gernika: ben_vulpes: 1.4.19
ben_vulpes: mod6: mine *does* verify the signature, but not in the build-bitcoin-v999o*.sh context
ben_vulpes: v9999**
mod6: well fuck.
mod6: gpg (GnuPG) 2.0.26 << both of my goddamn gentoo's have this installed.
ben_vulpes: oh yeah
mod6: what a goatfucking pile of shit
ben_vulpes: mod6: =app-crypt/gnupg-1.4.19
ben_vulpes: emerge --ask =app-crypt/gnupg-1.4.19
gernika: mod6 - seems the build-bitcoind-V99995.sh script exits for me when attempting to download boost: http://dpaste.com/3GCPPX2
assbot: dpaste: 3GCPPX2 ... ( http://bit.ly/1TsN95v )
mod6: well, i dunno what to say i guess.
mod6: you don't have to build with the script, just pull all the pieces and build by hand then.
mod6: im off
ben_vulpes: go take a vacation dood
ben_vulpes: it's not like gavin's going to steal a march on you or anything
BingoBoingo: Actually it's hard to tell.
BingoBoingo: That's the problem with hamplanets of the sort Gavin is growing into. It is impossible to predict the things they will steal.
ben_vulpes waits for the punchline
BingoBoingo: What punchline, all truefax. If you leave a planet in a room with icing, cornchips, and cookies there is a fair probability the hamplanet will eat the veggie burgers first out of curiosity.
ben_vulpes: heh
ben_vulpes: "so you leave a hamplanet in a room with frosting, cornchips, guacamole, and cookies. which do they eat first?"
BingoBoingo: the eggrolls
BingoBoingo: Even if you didn't know they were there.
ben_vulpes: "trick question: first they magic veggieburgers into existence to pretend like they ate something wholesome before desert."
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> go take a vacation dood << this is not a solution.
gernika: Some local color, since I'm voiced: I attended a bitcoin meetup in Oakland and encountered a team of "researchers" from Georgia Tech exploring using bitcoin to help the unbanked in Ethiopia. I asked, and no, none of them had been there.
BingoBoingo: lol
mod6: what i need, is help. every day. until this is resolved.
ben_vulpes: gernika: megalol
mod6: if someone knows what the problem is here, please submit. if testing is need, lets do it. all those things. telling me to take a break, or calm down, or take a vacation is not a solution.
ben_vulpes: i thought the vacation was already scheduled, hence the manic deadline pressure
mod6: brah.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21900 @ 0.0005704 = 12.4918 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: ...
ben_vulpes: yes?
phf: mod6: that signature is busted, just vidy output of curl -s http://buildroot.uclibc.org/downloads/buildroot-2015.05.tar.gz.sign
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JlKXnn )
mod6: vidy?
phf: see
phf: well, not busted, but not actually a signature for the tar.gz file
mod6: ok
mod6: http://dpaste.com/0A6CT6W.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1TsO1ag )
phf: mod6: ~look~ at the inside of the signature
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1411795 << thats what package mask is for!!☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2016 04:15:54; mod6: gpg (GnuPG) 2.0.26 << both of my goddamn gentoo's have this installed.
phf: it's not a detached signature. it's a standalone signed message that makes claims about shasums
mod6: dare i even ask what a package mask is?
mod6: phf: yeah, i see that, ok must be fixed
asciilifeform: basic gentooism, it's a list of nevers
assbot: [MPEX] [S.QNTR] 8513 @ 0.00023316 = 1.9849 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: things that won't be pulled in no matter what.
asciilifeform: re: thread: ftr i still use my original rotor builder.
asciilifeform: and intend to continue.
asciilifeform: it - works...
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1411785 << i won't use thing that insists n downloads. and i ~definitely~ won't use a thing that wants to rebuild gcc or boost etc each time.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2016 04:11:48; ben_vulpes: if asciilifeform hadn't already declared himself to not touch anything that brought anything down from the net he'd be complaining about all of the above as well
asciilifeform: my build script is two dozen lines, and bugless.
asciilifeform: i have nfi why it needed 'progress'...
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1411817 << l0l!☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2016 04:22:56; gernika: Some local color, since I'm voiced: I attended a bitcoin meetup in Oakland and encountered a team of "researchers" from Georgia Tech exploring using bitcoin to help the unbanked in Ethiopia. I asked, and no, none of them had been there.
asciilifeform never has, and never will, go near anything 'bitcoin-themed' meatspace in heathendom.
gernika: asciilifeform: you might be interested to know that the scheme involved some sort of Coke Machine with a water filtration system.
BingoBoingo still remembers the one time he saw a person wearing a bitcoin t-shirt in a bar
asciilifeform: cough up keyz or die of thirst?
asciilifeform: worx
gernika: l0l the ethiopian coke machine
asciilifeform: also am i the only one to whom 'unbanked' evokes a way of connecting memory ?
asciilifeform: and little else
asciilifeform: (vs banked naturally)
BingoBoingo: lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4450 @ 0.0005633 = 2.5067 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26707 @ 0.00056327 = 15.0433 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1411789 << pretty sure it verified for me also.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2016 04:12:28; mod6: for some reason, this guys friggin thing apparently wont verify, except for me. i seem to be the only one who has a gpg & his key that'll verify this damn thing
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1411821 << no looky, it's not meant in that sense at all. just letting you know that we love you!☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2016 04:24:10; mod6: if someone knows what the problem is here, please submit. if testing is need, lets do it. all those things. telling me to take a break, or calm down, or take a vacation is not a solution.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1411859 << nope exactly what i think also. and i'm closer to the financial field than fucking hardware.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2016 04:45:43; asciilifeform: also am i the only one to whom 'unbanked' evokes a way of connecting memory ?
mircea_popescu: us-style retail banking is an abominable pile of nonsense the likes of which nightmares are made of.
mircea_popescu: but in other news, chores! http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8h21v0J8e1rcdktuo1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/20MQMnm )
danielpbarron: ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://danielpbarron.com/qntra-mint.asc.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/20MQVXZ )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10798 @ 0.00056646 = 6.1166 BTC [+]
punkman: asciilifeform: afaik we don't presently have a vtron that is capable of digesting everything incl. the old crud. << my vtron digests conflicting patches
punkman: asciilifeform: (you will have to rename the dir manually, because DIFF IS RETARDED) << I'll do a punkdiff release this week
mircea_popescu: https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/698748328511696896/tHcNra2H_400x400.png << that's a pretty cool album cover lol.
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/20MSjd3 )
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: ty, great find
phf: my v can beat up your v
deedbot-: [Qntra] Linux Mint Server Compromised, Spread Malware - http://qntra.net/2016/02/linux-mint-server-compromised-spread-malware/
mircea_popescu: nuts
BingoBoingo: nuts, gotta protect them if you've got em'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53552 @ 0.00056431 = 30.2199 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23716 @ 0.0005623 = 13.3355 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29800 @ 0.00056151 = 16.733 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16750 @ 0.00056206 = 9.4145 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60000 @ 0.00056151 = 33.6906 BTC [-]
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 5.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Bernie Sanders will be Democrats' 2016 Presidential Nominee - http://bitbet.us/bet/1242/bernie-sanders-will-be-democrats-2016-presidential-nominee/#b22
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 2.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Ted Cruz will be the Republicans' 2016 Presidential Nominee - http://bitbet.us/bet/1246/ted-cruz-will-be-the-republicans-2016-presidential/#b14
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27860 @ 0.00056078 = 15.6233 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15202 @ 0.00055919 = 8.5008 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57598 @ 0.00055865 = 32.1771 BTC [-] {2}
punkman: https://www.drupal.org/project/misery
assbot: Misery | Drupal.org ... ( http://bit.ly/1mPPUki )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54088 @ 0.00055861 = 30.2141 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21700 @ 0.0005599 = 12.1498 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38950 @ 0.0005586 = 21.7575 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56600 @ 0.00055813 = 31.5902 BTC [-] {3}
ben_vulpes: yo where da trinque at
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell trinque yo hey yo hey
gribble: The operation succeeded.
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 2.03600000 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b72
mats: heatin up
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20200 @ 0.0005601 = 11.314 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: no mention of handicap
ben_vulpes: that bet is going to surprise some people
ben_vulpes: alphago can "win" with handicap of 12 stones and that bet goes green
ben_vulpes: unless mp^H^Hmods decide 'overall' has some magical meaning
adlai: so "some people" made an ass out of them and himself
adlai: ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://dpaste.com/34BA0H6.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1WAf171 )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
adlai: ;;later tell BingoBoingo /me accidentally a word http://dpaste.com/3WX0P03.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1WAfS7R )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16300 @ 0.00055935 = 9.1174 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67200 @ 0.00056242 = 37.7946 BTC [+] {2}
mats: i don't see why there would be a handicap now
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97621 @ 0.00056802 = 55.4507 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53400 @ 0.00056679 = 30.2666 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38673 @ 0.00056929 = 22.0162 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76073 @ 0.00056944 = 43.319 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38100 @ 0.00057002 = 21.7178 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60219 @ 0.00056935 = 34.2857 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14997 @ 0.00056506 = 8.4742 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6437 @ 0.00055919 = 3.5995 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68902 @ 0.0005579 = 38.4404 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43120 @ 0.00055889 = 24.0993 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.00055768 = 3.123 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> that bet is going to surprise some people << "overall" covers it imo
mircea_popescu: what's so magical about it ?
mircea_popescu: but in other news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/f6b4810f7b7499277a3b9424f2aeac37/tumblr_mveinsoBEr1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qs0Ooc )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11900 @ 0.00055768 = 6.6364 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14800 @ 0.00055861 = 8.2674 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7953 @ 0.00056231 = 4.4721 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18050 @ 0.00056859 = 10.263 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20719 @ 0.00056916 = 11.7924 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32850 @ 0.00056267 = 18.4837 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 117647 @ 0.00055821 = 65.6717 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51450 @ 0.00055739 = 28.6777 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3610 @ 0.00055708 = 2.0111 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29050 @ 0.00055661 = 16.1695 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1411879 << imho this will have to be a thing that is solved in one Final Solution shot, with turing-complete diff. we can NOT have 1,001 incompatible hacked gnudiff variants floating around in attempted use, it is chaos and death by ants.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2016 06:02:08; punkman: asciilifeform: (you will have to rename the dir manually, because DIFF IS RETARDED) << I'll do a punkdiff release this week
asciilifeform: it is why i settled on straight gnudiff instead of trying 'clever' things
mircea_popescu: turing complete diff ?!
mircea_popescu: what's the diff if loop ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is a continuation of a thread almost as old as 'v' - consider the tinyscheme-genesis patch, shiva, and the 'pedigree bridge'
asciilifeform: we have this atrocity because gnudiff is incapable of renaming a directory without MORONICALLY --- -ing EVERY FUCKING LINE of every file and +++ -ing it in again
asciilifeform: likewise file deletions
mircea_popescu: no argument there.,
asciilifeform: and more generally, unix 'patch' output was not really designed for human eyes
asciilifeform: nor was the thing in any sense designed at all, really.
asciilifeform: just grew, like fungus.
asciilifeform: like most open sores crud.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if this was not clear, there is not presently any such thing as turing-complete diff/patch
asciilifeform: but it is one of the things that must come to exist, for sanity.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> nor was the thing in any sense designed at all, really. << quite very much this.
mircea_popescu: i just don't see the gap between "cleanly covers corner cases" and "is turing complete" bridged.
asciilifeform: because 'cover corner cases' through 'enumerated' is braindamage.
mircea_popescu: you can't put a kernel in every single thing including the diff utility!
asciilifeform: no kernel, just a little scheme interpreter.
mircea_popescu: ah that's what you had in mind.
asciilifeform: could've guessed, aha ?
mircea_popescu: listen, if you say "diff should parse scheme" instead of "diff should be turing complete" people'd follow a lot easier.
mircea_popescu: i for instance judged that since you DON'T say the obvious, you specifically do not mean the obvious.
mircea_popescu: why'd i guess like when talking to 16yos on saturday night ?
asciilifeform: well it technically doesn't have to be scheme. draft ver of 'p' for instance is more forth-like.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i can see it.
asciilifeform: 'v' as we have it now, or at least as it appeared in my initial publication, was a very hasty and premature, wartime wunderwaffen thing
asciilifeform: it was really only half-gestated.
asciilifeform: the adult version as i envision it is much more like what is described above.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 188096 @ 0.00056155 = 105.6253 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: "The simplest way to generate a patch is to use ‘diff -Naur’ (see Tips for Patch Producers), but you might be able to reduce the size of the patch by renaming or removing some files before making the patch. If the older version of the package contains any files that the newer version does not, or if any files have been renamed between the two versions, make a list of rm and mv commands for the user to execute in th
mircea_popescu: e old version directory before applying the patch. Then run those commands yourself in the scratch directory."
mircea_popescu: speak of "not designed at all".
asciilifeform: aha recall this from early trb days ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49500 @ 0.00057 = 28.215 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: specifically 'chicken'
asciilifeform: what a fuckingmisery
asciilifeform: (chicken was what i nowadays call a 'pedigree bridge')
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: in truth the situation here is that we don't even know much of the stuff we need until we need it,
asciilifeform: which is why turingcompletefinalsolution.
mircea_popescu: nor do we know the banal names of banal things until after we've made them, because unlike posterity, we don't have the advantage OF FUCKING SANE ANTECESSORS.
mircea_popescu: we're born of snails and other oratanii
asciilifeform: nobody said terraforming planets would be easy...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform complete solutions are rarely best solutions tho. too heavy.
mircea_popescu: complete tank solution includes oil well.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is a misconception, in this case. weigh my tinyscheme vs gnudiff!
asciilifeform: any metric you like - lines, complexity, hours to read
asciilifeform: complete solution made from ~orthogonal pieces~ is the magic sword which weighs as a feather.
mircea_popescu is not arguing against tinischeme
asciilifeform: it is also how you get 'no motherfucking updates ever, weld into concrete' while still getting exactly what is needed at every juncture.
shinohai: https://i.imgur.com/1ZafV6N.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1SKdCwE )
asciilifeform wonders about the hypertrophied labia 90%+ of porn chix seem to have
mircea_popescu: that's hyper ?
asciilifeform: i suppose if mircea_popescu tells me that it is standard, i will believe.
mircea_popescu: you can't even see it ?
mircea_popescu: you mean the outer labia ?
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: labia majora
mircea_popescu: that's mostly just fat/position tho.
asciilifeform: hm.
mircea_popescu: there's been this weirdo trend of (mostly anglo) girls getting worried about their labia minora being "wrong", mostly on account of thgere being a LOT of natural variation on that score, and anglo chicks being all weird and insecure and sexually inexperienced. plus of course the crazed marketing society, that feeds into all of the above.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40436 @ 0.00056906 = 23.0105 BTC [-]
polarbeard: so I've been playing a bit with shiva, I'm developing a simple hook mechanism, here's a preview https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/f5c5b02a2ce7c1a69c77
assbot: shiva_hooks.patch · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/20NQyMF )
polarbeard: thoughts?
asciilifeform: polarbeard: why all the crud ?
asciilifeform: why reverse_in_place, mk_list, marshall, etc. in cpp ?
polarbeard: re: my patches, I'm trying to keep an up to date version of them on my github trb repo, wouldn't mind submitting to the ml if somebody asks
polarbeard: utility functions?
asciilifeform: these should be in scheme.
asciilifeform: everything that can be in scheme, MUST BE.
polarbeard: marshall should be in scheme?
asciilifeform: explain to me why it is even necessary.
polarbeard: CNode marshalling
asciilifeform: WHY
polarbeard: because I'm marshalling per value type, not per hook type
asciilifeform: shiva.cpp as i originally wrote it, includes all of the trb headers. you can form scheme data structures handily without engaging in weird cppisms, just by iterating over, e.g., the node list, and forming scheme list while you do it.
polarbeard: that's what I do
asciilifeform: and what is this ? >> https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/f5c5b02a2ce7c1a69c77#file-shiva_hooks-patch-L142
assbot: shiva_hooks.patch · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/20NR2ma )
polarbeard: I'm just encapsulating the functionality
asciilifeform: this is not an explanation.
polarbeard: that was a bug fix
asciilifeform: do you know what an explanation is ?
asciilifeform: WHAT BUG
asciilifeform: if you found an ACTUAL bug, that should be OWN PATCH.
polarbeard: this is not a vpatch, don't you see that?
asciilifeform: i do
asciilifeform: but it is also not an anything else.
asciilifeform: it is an example of everything i stand against.
polarbeard: so, what you're going to do with ts then?
asciilifeform: i did give example.
asciilifeform: for one thing, i won't be implementing list reversal in cpp !
asciilifeform: for another, bug fixes are their own patches, one per bug, that must contain nothing else.
polarbeard: I won't be adding unnecessary code to init.scm
asciilifeform: on the contrary, that is the ideal place for all new code pertaining to shiva.
asciilifeform: anything that is not going there, must answer why.
polarbeard: I'll split the bug fixes into their own vpatches when the time comes
asciilifeform: please do.
asciilifeform: these i will happily read, and sign.
polarbeard: atm I just wanted to dump what I'm working for, to get constructive feedback
asciilifeform: but doings in cpp what can be done inside tinyscheme, i will not.
asciilifeform: and i hope this is good feedback.
asciilifeform: see, the big thing here,
asciilifeform: is that by 'marshalling' the pointers, you are introducing trb's leakages into tinyscheme.
asciilifeform: (not to mention, bloating the code, but this is secondary)
asciilifeform: the point of shiva is PRECISELY the opposite
asciilifeform: 1) to have the cpp content of trb asymptotically go to ZERO with time
asciilifeform: 2) to THERMONUKE the idiot leaks.
polarbeard: never, I'm not translating trb to scheme
polarbeard: that's pointless and a waste of time
asciilifeform: nobody asked you to. but try also refrain from translating shiva to cpp, and spreading the leak metastases into it ?
polarbeard: so you embedded scheme for that reason?
asciilifeform: for the time being, with the more modest goal of abolishing the rpc module.
asciilifeform: but yes, in the long run it is intended as a prosthesis to take over where the brain damage of the original is incurable.
asciilifeform: (for n00bs or readers who have not been keeping up, 'shiva' is a highly experimental affair and not to be considered part of mainline trb!)
asciilifeform: and also in case polarbeard missed last night's thread,
asciilifeform: the magic of 'v' is that polarbeard does NOT have to agree with me!111
asciilifeform: he is free, and encouraged to, produce his own schismatic shiva, and sign it, and who knows, folks may come to prefer it to mine.
polarbeard: I agree with you on that
polarbeard: yes, I'm not surprised that you have a different point of view, and I'm even pleased I think
asciilifeform: from my naked eye reading, your thing will run until the first gc cycle.
asciilifeform: but i can't promise this, and can't be bothered to test, for reasons already described.
polarbeard: it actually stores the callbacks
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10937 @ 0.000569 = 6.2232 BTC [-]
polarbeard: it works well, but still simple hooks because only a single callback may be registered per hook, not sure yet if there will be need for callback management
jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1411948 << have you looked into 'ed' diffs? but yes, they can't rename directory either.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2016 15:39:46; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1411879 << imho this will have to be a thing that is solved in one Final Solution shot, with turing-complete diff. we can NOT have 1,001 incompatible hacked gnudiff variants floating around in attempted use, it is chaos and death by ants.
asciilifeform: jurov: i've looked into everything.
phf: dat patch, can take them to water, can't make them drink
asciilifeform: and i'm not very interested in 'can do all but X' widgets.
asciilifeform: i demand X, even values of X i don't yet know about.
asciilifeform: hence turingcompletevtron.
asciilifeform: and srsly, 'ed' ?! not meant for human reading any more than 'patch'.
asciilifeform: it is almost exemplary of the opposite of what we need here.
oglafbot: http://oglaf.com/merrymen/
assbot: Merry Men ... ( http://bit.ly/20NTIjC )
jurov: asciilifeform: either it's 'can do all but X' or turing complete and thus with potentially unbounded runtime
asciilifeform: jurov: the magic trick is that there is no such thing as unbounded runtime on my box.
asciilifeform: there is exceed-bound-and-i-negrate
asciilifeform: we have finessed the halting problem !1111
jurov: also, you imply basically to expose all filesystem primitives to scheme, are they comprehensively and soundly defined?
jurov: i smell you'll eventually end with different presses in diff machines due to different filesystem semantics
jurov: who're you negrating now?
asciilifeform: any future folks who might think they are being clever with, e.g., nonterminating vtron program.
asciilifeform: jurov: what do you have with different filesystem semantics ? vax ?
asciilifeform: msdos ?
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1412011 <-heh-> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1412086 ☝︎☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2016 16:07:32; mircea_popescu: there's been this weirdo trend of (mostly anglo) girls getting worried about their labia minora being "wrong", mostly on account of thgere being a LOT of natural variation on that score, and anglo chicks being all weird and insecure and sexually inexperienced. plus of course the crazed marketing society, that feeds into all of the above.
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2016 16:51:03; oglafbot: http://oglaf.com/merrymen/
jurov: while you slept, "modern" filesystem implementors deemed to fit to reorder operations to improve performance
asciilifeform: glorious!
asciilifeform: show me example ?
asciilifeform: 'i deleted this first before reading, faster!1111'
asciilifeform: srsly, we are there already ??
phf: i recall riastradh making an srfi proposal for a minimum subset of filesystem operations. could just implement it for tinyscheme
phf: http://mumble.net/~campbell/proposals/filesys.text
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1SZUPh4 )
asciilifeform: phf: this was on my list of things to include, but i wanted to 'take it slow.'
asciilifeform: i did not include the tcp module for ts either
asciilifeform: though i have it
jurov: https://github.com/google/leveldb/issues/195
assbot: Possible bug: fsync() required after calling rename() · Issue #195 · google/leveldb · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1SZUZ8a )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16450 @ 0.00055661 = 9.1562 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: gotta love these 'optimizations'
asciilifeform: see also the gcc5 threads
jurov: lol looky now i'm the one to predict crapocalypse
asciilifeform: anyway this particular crapocalypse is avoidable, at least on our planet. BAN any heathen fs.
asciilifeform: instruct new users that they must operate on a sane fs.
phf: ext2
asciilifeform: and much as i loathe the idea, we will probably have to nail down our own linux distro.
jurov: which fs is sane? which mount options?
asciilifeform: jurov: i've been using reiserfs for ~decade.
asciilifeform: with 0 issues.
asciilifeform: the fact that reiser was jailed cemented it as permanently high-quality, no one wants to touch it, no 'progressors' progressate at it, no gnomes, no popularizers!111, etc.
asciilifeform: appears that it was bug-free as it was.
asciilifeform: sooo
asciilifeform: gotta do a few things to the mains wiring, i (and zoolag) will be down for 30 min. to an hour.
asciilifeform: starting now.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00055655 = 3.5619 BTC [-] {2}
phf: added patch highlight to btcbase (got tired of trying to visually locate patches in the graph)
phf: for example http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=stable&search=showmyip
assbot: trb ... ( http://bit.ly/1ow0Y7q )
phf: or my favorite http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=stable&search=asciilifeform
assbot: trb ... ( http://bit.ly/1ow16nt )
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b74
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 432.66, vol: 13065.58845587 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 432.623, vol: 11650.44569 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 436.5, vol: 54646.13980057 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 440.0, vol: 0.60533968 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 442.360947, vol: 67064.74420000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 432.1104, vol: 898.75107699 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 425.870649, vol: 71.32973054 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: ;;more
gribble: average: 438.487963423
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 399479 | Current Difficulty: 1.6349165490895926E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 401183 | Next Difficulty In: 1704 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 6 days, 12 hours, 34 minutes, and 17 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45150 @ 0.00055747 = 25.1698 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97155 @ 0.00056091 = 54.4952 BTC [+] {2}
mod6: so with that build script, i'm thinking just take out the curl & --verify of that stupid .sign file.
mod6: still will check the hash of the buildroot artifact.
mod6: gonna try that out locally here.
mod6: i guess, the other good news to that is you wont need to import that rando's guy's key into your keyring. still would need mine, alf & trinque's tho.
danielpbarron: oh mod6, with a fresh .bitcoin/ directory, your new thing seems to work fine
kakobrekla is back
kakobrekla: logs tell me no one missed me, great :)
pete_dushenski: don't believe everything you don't read
ben_vulpes: bitbet is broken kakobrekla
ben_vulpes: also assbot
ben_vulpes: and irc
jurov: and assbot's stuff is swollen
ben_vulpes: you keep irc working right?
kakobrekla: looks like i returned prematurely
ben_vulpes: wait come back
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu's javascript also doesn't work in every browser
ben_vulpes: mod6: perhaps hard code the hashes from korsgaard's signature and verify those?
phf: ben_vulpes: they are like md5 and sha1
mod6: ^
kakobrekla had a blast snowboarding the prime slopes of Dolomites region of Alps
mod6: i think this was actually discussed quite some time ago. i dont remember what the sentiment was exactly. but i think it was like "meh"
mod6: danielpbarron: ok thanks for the update
mod6: anyway, i guess i don't mind, i can add a part where we check the SHA1 & MD5 of the buildroot artifact and then continue to verify that .sign file.
phf: kakobrekla: i went camping in the Appalachian last weekend, -20c w/ winds, but it was awesome. i did just enough trash talking about russian blood to come down with a flu by thursday...
kakobrekla: l0lz
kakobrekla: meanwhile i was the only person in sauna yesterday evening
phf: as soon as i can move again, i'm going to make it to russian&turkish baths in nyc. they don't really do saunas on the east coast, but that baths place is awesome
ben_vulpes: mod6: while there's no harm in checking the .sign, i don't know what it buys us
ben_vulpes: also that signature is disturbingly short
kakobrekla: really no saunas? whats the deal with that?
mod6: ben_vulpes: yeah, i dunno what the deal is with it, seems to not work exactly as expected.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10150 @ 0.00056778 = 5.763 BTC [+] {2}
phf: i hnfi. these people do "spas", but the sauna part is typically a joke
mod6: im gonna look again at what happens with 1.4.19 & that sign file.
phf: there's literally 4 places in the entire virgnia-connecticut stretch. maybe there's something up in Massachusetts. there's "east european" places ran by russians but with a lot of turks, etc. and then there's korean baths. but koreans frown on cold plunges, so they would usually have a tepid shower/pool
kakobrekla: im fine with shower only as long as you can set the temp to whatever you want
mod6: ok, so right, with 1.4.19 it has that WARNING at the end: http://dpaste.com/1BZA8NQ.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1UgmUQg )
phf: yeah, korean places are not bad, but i know only of one that caters specifically to koreans (i.e. good heat), a lot of them are western oriented so massage and facials and such
phf: this place is great http://www.russianturkishbaths.com if you're ever in nyc
assbot: 010813rtbh ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ugn6PB )
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination - http://bitbet.us/bet/1206/donald-trump-gets-republican-nomination/#b104
ben_vulpes: ha wow did the shitgnomes snip that mod6 ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64900 @ 0.0005694 = 36.9541 BTC [+] {2}
mod6: hrm?
mod6: ah, no idea.
mod6: so ... https://buildroot.org/downloads/
assbot: Index of /downloads ... ( http://bit.ly/1ow8JKK )
mod6: in here there seem to be .sign files for the .tar.gz's, but they seem to have .gpg's for the tar.bz2's
mod6: im gonna take a look at that instead.
mod6: ooh... not for our version :(
mod6: guess that only started with the version /after/ our version 2015.05
mod6: lol ofc
mod6: oh nm, looks like those are only there for an RC version?
mod6: ok. ya
ben_vulpes: apparently
mod6: heh, these guys built this huge thing, but their sign files only have SHA1 & MD5, even the most recent 2016.02
mod6: wth
mod6: why even bother?
mod6: im starting to think that our SHA512 sum of this artifact is better than whatever they've got.
asciilifeform ears stand up!
phf: illustration: ^- http://www.somepets.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/manul4.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1UgoEZZ )
ben_vulpes: mod6: yeah.
ben_vulpes imagines stan's face shooped onto the manul
asciilifeform: exactly this, aha.
asciilifeform: mod6: tell me which tarballs, i will dig out my originals and sum
asciilifeform: in other nyooz, from the depths, http://www.newsbtc.com/2016/02/21/xapo-announces-plans-to-upgrade-to-bitcoin-classic
assbot: Xapo Announces Plans to Upgrade to Bitcoin Classic ... ( http://bit.ly/1ow9SSp )
mod6: asciilifeform:this is the one that we're pulling
mod6: http://buildroot.uclibc.org/downloads/buildroot-2015.05.tar.gz
mod6: we expect this sha512:
mod6: c42fdd39cb2bc46804a86a7d7b2605bd3cd9ddcb365c4e5a1fb147eb02b234fc31a70c8140be2f4d27cd371c84e0c6701f8cb47697dd1c18dd0e0cce784aa07a
danielpbarron: https://twitter.com/Joseph_Young_ << literally philippino
assbot: Joseph (@Joseph_Young_) | Twitter ... ( http://bit.ly/1owaasp )
asciilifeform: c42fdd39cb2bc46804a86a7d7b2605bd3cd9ddcb365c4e5a1fb147eb02b234fc31a70c8140be2f4d27cd371c84e0c6701f8cb47697dd1c18dd0e0cce784aa07a
asciilifeform: downloaded may 31 2015.
asciilifeform: i have, i think, also earlier buildroots
asciilifeform: if anyone wants.
asciilifeform: and their tars.
asciilifeform: and their cached crapolade.
mod6: ok great
mod6: yeah, here's what i've got in total: http://dpaste.com/35XDBSS.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1owaqYA )
mod6: the md5 & sha1 match the sign file
ben_vulpes: c42fdd39cb2bc46804a86a7d7b2605bd3cd9ddcb365c4e5a1fb147eb02b234fc31a70c8140be2f4d27cd371c84e0c6701f8cb47697dd1c18dd0e0cce784aa07a
mod6: what we really aught to do is write to that guy, get him to join the wot with a 4096 bit RSA key, and have him resign all of the bundles.
mod6: or at least, just the one we're using.
ben_vulpes: "the army we have"
mod6: want me to do it?
mod6: i can do that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41550 @ 0.00056304 = 23.3943 BTC [-] {2}
danielpbarron: which guy?
mod6: "Peter Korsgaard <jacmet@uclibc.org>"
ben_vulpes: it's just another thing in the way of wrapping this up, mod6 .
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform produced legacy hashes, they match the ones i have on disk and the ones you have right?
mod6: sure sure.
mod6: just thinking that hey, cant hurt anything to enlighten the guy that these hashes that he's signing, even up to this current month are obsolete.
asciilifeform: obsolete?!
asciilifeform: what even is this
mod6: SHA1 & MD5 are broken are they not?
asciilifeform: ah this yes
asciilifeform: do we have a confirmed collision here ?!
asciilifeform: i.e. different sha512 but same sha1/md5 ?
mod6: anyway, an open line of comms to these folks could help us -- especially going forward as we basically might need to "roll our own" so that it doesn't pull the deps via rsync.
mod6: asciilifeform: not as far as i've seen.
ben_vulpes: my sha1 and md5 match those in k's .sign
mod6: so as far as the build-bitcoind-V99995.sh is concerned. let's just check that hash and call it a day then.
mod6: i've updated the script here: http://www.mod6.net/btcf/build-bitcoind-V99995.sh
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1mOPSt7 )
asciilifeform: phf: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1412134 << this is very spiffy☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2016 18:08:18; phf: or my favorite http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=stable&search=asciilifeform
mod6: take a look, i've removed 3 lines: 1. in the comment section where it lists PK's key fingerprint at the top 2. the curl that pulls the sign file for buildroot-2015.05.tar.gz.sign 3. the gpg command that verifies buildroot-2015.05.tar.gz.sign
jurov: with my `cwd` problem yest, looks like i have ran into http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=304587 :(
assbot: why does ignoring sigCHLD corrupt return value from system()? ... ( http://bit.ly/1UgrlLc )
asciilifeform looks
jurov: why do i keep getting such obscure stuff...
mod6: c2ed1ccbb6769ada764b6d31e7a06873860c422109c4f8506cbda04402243c0534c9555f44f4c47071ebc3d6e3ece720b84de2940a2639381ef77652b34c3030
mod6: sha512 for build-bitcoind-V99995.sh is now ^^
mod6: jurov: do you mean `pwd' ?
jurov: yes pwd
jurov: basically, perl's fork() stopped working
mod6: what version of *nix & what version of perl
jurov: much joy
asciilifeform: jurov: whatddyamean 'stop working' ?!
asciilifeform: as in, cosmic ray ?
asciilifeform: or did you... update the box.
jurov: gentoo, perl 5.20.2
jurov: i updated glibc with the patch
asciilifeform: aaaaah
jurov: for getname
asciilifeform: which patch ?
mod6: pwd is used iirc in v.pl, but only in the contex of it being a shell out - your environment should execute this and return the result to a scalar.
jurov: gethostbyname
asciilifeform: well yes
asciilifeform: but ~which patch~
mod6: fork() shoudn't even be a consideration here... im confused.
phf: yeesh, when shiva fails to read init.scm it kills the whole bitcoind there and then
asciilifeform: phf: kills how ?
jurov: mod6 `pwd` call subprocess
jurov: hence, fork
phf: Shiva: new session, connected from
phf: libc++abi.dylib: terminating with uncaught exception of type std::runtime_error: Shiva: failed to read init file!
phf: run: line 4: 67621 Abort trap: 6
mod6: perl doesn't care about what subprocesses a unix command may or may not use tho.
asciilifeform: phf: and this is the correct behaviour (IF SHIVA IS ENABLED), just needs to happen cleanly and humanely. does it ?
asciilifeform: ah this is CORRECT phf.
jurov: asciilifeform: how do i list patches that went into glibc-2.22-r2 ?
mod6: it'd be like doing the same thing in a bash script: PWD=`pwd`; echo $PWD;
phf: oh i agree, it should kill, just not without prejudice
phf: (i.e. no reason to corrupt db in the process)
asciilifeform: jurov: look in the portage cache, possibly. but you might have to diff with previous.
mod6: jurov: fwiw, i do a huge % of testing on a gentoo env with perl 5.20...
asciilifeform: phf: possibly it ought to die before the db is opened.
mod6: v5.20.2 for x86_64-linux
phf: well, init.scm is read on each connection, since there's no persistence
jurov: mod6 well, on another box i updates glibc to same version and perl works fine
jurov: *updated
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39300 @ 0.0005655 = 22.2242 BTC [+]
mod6: weird
mod6: so again, this is because somehow V thinks that your pwd is in / ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41214 @ 0.00056467 = 23.2723 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: are you in / when executing V, by doing something like `/path/to/where/V/is/actually/located/v.pl`
mod6: because then your pwd would be /
mod6: and it'll look for .wot in /
punkman: http://archive.is/DZy45
assbot: Should enQ Get To Sell Spots In IRS Phone Queue? - Forbes ... ( http://bit.ly/1UgsJ0j )
jurov: mod6 noooo, pwd is external program. it failed to run it and returned nothing
jurov: and nothing + '/.wot' is...
mod6: ok, so pwd just fails as is.
mod6: what does `which pwd` tell you?
jurov: but don't mind, this is my private mess
jurov: even system('ls') fails
mod6: im simply curious here, never seen a pwd fail before.
mod6: oooh.
mod6: yeah, probably need to re-chroot or whatever it is with gentoo
mod6: asciilifeform or trinque have any thoughts for the man?
mod6: in other news jurov, im about to re-send the emails from yesterday
jurov: yay just recompiled perl without thread support, that did the trick
jurov: mod6 go on
mod6: wait, now it works?!?!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44345 @ 0.00057003 = 25.278 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: lol thread support did it huh?
jurov: yes, both my perl and turdatron
mod6: lemme see if i get this. perl with thread support broke your entire gentoo?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12655 @ 0.0005712 = 7.2285 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: i have nfi
jurov: not entire. just occassional problems with perl scripts like v.pl and autotools
mod6: but i thought you said that `ls` and `pwd` didn't work, like in your shell. that shouldn't have anything to do with perl.
mod6: my mind is blown. these are C binaries.
jurov: but perl failed to execue them!
jurov: most perl scripts meddle with $SIG so they worked fine
mod6: but, say, normal use; you log in, you get a shell, you type `ls` and that would just work as expected right?
jurov: yes, everything worked. except perl -e "print system('ls') or die $!" returned just -1
mod6: ahhhh
mod6: ok.
mod6: then that makes a bit more sense.
mod6: maybe i should rewrite V in C
jurov: as i said, don't mind. it's my problem, i should not avoid dubious USE flags
mod6: well, someday maybe. still a dog with fleas.
jurov: *i should avoid
shinohai: btw mod6 I have reproduced it again just fine this morning Deb 8 and Ubuntu 14.04
mod6: ah, ok good deal shinohai. I updated the script so that it doens't even pull that .sign file. we'll just rely on the sha512 that I hvae, alf has, and ben has.
mod6: the link is above if anyone wants to give it a try.
shinohai: works for me
asciilifeform: phf: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1412300 << as stated in the comments, i regard this as a serious loose end that must be tied before anyone can even contemplate using a shivatronic trb in the battlefield☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2016 20:08:29; phf: well, init.scm is read on each connection, since there's no persistence
mod6: shinohai: ok cool! im running mine right now
mod6: im making a `typescript' of the output as well. will post later when its complete.
shinohai: Me too did u get my pm with the address to node stats?
mod6: ah, ya, haven't looked yet tho.
mod6 looks
mod6: cool!
mod6: 9 connections, there soemthing i don't see everyday.
mod6: thanks for your help all. much appreciated.
shinohai: Sometimes gets as many as 12
mod6: wow. cool.
mod6: so once we're happy with this build-script, etc. we cna update that wiki, then we're back in sync. then I can take some time to get the makefiles stuff all organized.
mod6: no super rush there.
mod6: just only was in a hurry to get back into sync.
mod6: jurov: glad you got it resolved tho. let us know how it goes for you.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 144950 @ 0.00057256 = 82.9926 BTC [+] {4}
jurov: it did compile the bitcoind, the problem was intermittent
mod6: ok now to resend those emails...
mod6: wish me luck lol
ben_vulpes: > 9 connections << coracle currently serving 13 strangers
ben_vulpes: and in other nyooz of the weird and strange saga of ben_vulpes endeavoring to set up a reference implementation on his heathen macintosh, buildroot fails to compile in linux virtual machines of all sorts of flavors
ben_vulpes gives up again
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: post moar detail ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: fwiw it builds on 'centos', ubiquitous
phf: i have it running in a frowned upon state. cmake, llvm, clang
mod6: huh, yeah wouldn't have expected that
ben_vulpes: here's the last line, asciilifeform: x86_64-therealbitcoin-linux-musl-gcc: internal compiler error: Segmentation fault (program cc1)
mod6: and this is a gentoo VM? or ubuntu?
asciilifeform: phf: this is not useless, you can do the thing with the call graph even
ben_vulpes: phf: share your weird!
asciilifeform: phf: i have long wanted to get this working, so i can haz call graph
asciilifeform: which gcc refuses to disgorge
ben_vulpes: mod6: under gentoo the vm simply gives up on life
ben_vulpes: mod6: under ubuntu 14.04 running make in buildroot exits as above
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: lemme guess: gcc 5
ben_vulpes: heh
asciilifeform: KILL IT WITH FIRE
asciilifeform: and try again.
ben_vulpes: i didn't even check.
mod6: yeah, maybe alf has it
asciilifeform: 4.9 is already broken for some cases
ben_vulpes: gcc (Gentoo 4.6.3 p1.13, pie-0.5.2) 4.6.3
phf: ben_vulpes: i'm building it from inside Clion, so i'm not sure how easy it is to do cmake otherwise, i can share the diff though
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: hm, ought to work
ben_vulpes shrugs
asciilifeform: but wtf is 'pie'
mod6: jurov: lol, those emails envetually went through!!!?!
ben_vulpes: is this perversion even worth running down?
mod6: glad i checked or they would have been in there 2x.
ben_vulpes: i figured this for more of a "half bottle of wine in a girl's butt" report. entertainment, not science.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: any such perversion is ~always~ worth running to ground
asciilifeform: it is how we discovered the libnss thing
asciilifeform: and other evils
mod6: yaaa, i recall this
jurov: mod6: what mail provides do you use? trying to resend email for 3 days is standard
asciilifeform: pretty much everything we have, we have because someone ran the motherfucking gnomes to ground, each time.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes's turn.
mod6: jurov: evil mail
ben_vulpes: to be frank, i have no idea how this gentoo image was even built in the first place.
asciilifeform: waiwut
asciilifeform: i thought you built it ?
asciilifeform: or where, found on the street ?
ben_vulpes: no, 'twas some abortion pulled in via 'atlas', 'hashicorp'
asciilifeform: what even is that
mod6: ;;later tell pete_dushenski here's that change log you wanted: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-February/000213.html
assbot: [BTC-dev] mod6's V [in perl] version 99995 K ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ugvezz )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
phf: ben_vulpes: you brought this upon yourself :D
ben_vulpes: 'easy development environments for derpvelopers on macintosh!'
ben_vulpes: phf: it's a hobby
asciilifeform: this is where i repeat mircea_popescu's admonition not to eat from dumpsters.
ben_vulpes: but the phood is phr33!
asciilifeform: quite.
mod6: haha. also gives you the shits.
ben_vulpes: as demonstrated!
mod6: hahahahahaha
mod6: ugh. man. computers right?
jurov: butbutbut riced dumpsters!
asciilifeform: unrelatedly, http://www.applelogic.org/files/6502SCHEMATIC.pdf
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1QTtHKq )
asciilifeform: ^ apparently the whole thing. 1 page.
phf: man, writing scheme is like trying to build an eiffel tower out of toothpicks
asciilifeform: phf: only the first time. it then turns into a steel beam you can use to build proper towers.
phf: once i bootstrap entire cl you mean? (define-macro (destructuring-bind ...
asciilifeform: aha.
asciilifeform: incidentally, tried slib ?
phf: no
phf: will look
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47900 @ 0.00056373 = 27.0027 BTC [-] {2}
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Marco Rubio will be Republicans' 2016 Presidential Nominee - http://bitbet.us/bet/1205/marco-rubio-will-be-republicans-2016-presidential-nominee/#b17
mircea_popescu: i shall now proceed to read the scrollback!
mircea_popescu: god help the man that takes a nap during republican times.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1412040 << lol that escalated quickly.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2016 16:27:59; asciilifeform: it is an example of everything i stand against.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: read his thing, mega-recommended.
asciilifeform: will see why.
mircea_popescu: o no. i'm not going to arbiter on code matters.
mircea_popescu: consensus process, bitches.
asciilifeform: don't need to. but see the thing in question, imho it is more or less the perfect example of what not to do.
mircea_popescu: lol k.
mircea_popescu: heh.
mircea_popescu: so the guy is more familiar with cpp, naturally wants to isolate the weird he's taking in and take it in at controlled rate.
mircea_popescu: won't be accepted in trb by any means, but i dun see anything wrong wiht the process.
mircea_popescu: gotta figure it out somehow.
asciilifeform: well it pull in the direction precisely opposite to shiva.
asciilifeform: *pulls
asciilifeform: while being nominally a shiva patch.
asciilifeform: and i am all for the fella figuring things out, so long as he understands this, and the ~why~.
mircea_popescu: eh it doesn't pull anything. think about it : it is a modest, quiet hope, specifically that shiva/b-a/trb is actually heavy enough that it may pull him.
mircea_popescu: there's nothing wrong with treating your baby as a chunk of bedrock, you know.
ben_vulpes: what even was the point of the schemehooks?
mircea_popescu: tied some ropes to it and pulling on them, technically yes "this pulls the earth the wrong way". practically, tis alpinism.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: multifold point. most realistically, and in the short term, to abolish the json rpc crapolade.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: more generally, and later, as an internal debugger.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: much more generally, and much later - as potential replacement for entire chunks of the rotten flesh.
ben_vulpes: these are the original hooks? i misread
asciilifeform: there are no useful hooks yet.
asciilifeform: there is a demo, which was supplied with the original patch, that gets block count, and another knob that quits.
phf: asciilifeform: he's asking about SchemeHook from polarbeard's patch
asciilifeform: ah
mircea_popescu: myeah.
asciilifeform: these, i think, are meant to be debug hooks
asciilifeform: but ask him, not me.
mircea_popescu: and in the world's most amusing porn news, "pregnant male doctor grabs boob" http://41.media.tumblr.com/cbf106747cae91ec1e7fa6bbad5fcbe9/tumblr_mlvjrxMRnl1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1QTvMpJ )
asciilifeform: l0l this one's for BingoBoingo
mircea_popescu: imo the "skelet" thing on the wall totally makes it.
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: modern if unintentional art.
jurov: at least he has he stethoscope on
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1412083 << total fucking misnomers alf won't let go of with his lyf!☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2016 16:49:27; asciilifeform: hence turingcompletevtron.
asciilifeform: hm?
mircea_popescu: what [i believe] you have in mind when ytou say "tc" in thsi context is pointedly not what most anyone reading it would expect it to mean.
asciilifeform: it means what everybody's kindergarten textbook had it mean!11
mircea_popescu: but a very... haskellite, even, theoretical notion.
asciilifeform: how?
asciilifeform: all i ask for is that vtron be able to specify arbitrary transformations, e.g., 'replace every letter a with b', rather than the +++/--- imbecility.
mircea_popescu: in that it's "turing complete in a purely theoretical sense and with none of the practical overhead a practical implementation would imply except in those cases where it is clearly and truly needed".
jurov: ^yes i was hinting at this too
asciilifeform: i suppose, like every other time before, i am doomed to demonstrate ~by example~...
mircea_popescu: in this sense cunt is turing complete, it can express all proteins.
mircea_popescu: good luck getting the fps to do so, however.
phf: i think the idea is to have a slightly more constrained awk. patchmachine takes string, manipulates it, returns new string
mircea_popescu: phf my mental model is essentially "awk without regexp"
asciilifeform: phf: specifically not awk and nothing like awk.
jurov: no the ide was patchmachine takes *filesystem* and ditto
asciilifeform: enough with the arbitrary nonorthogonal craplangs.
jurov: *idea
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what other than regexp do you hate in awk ? and being gnucpp, of course.\
asciilifeform: plenty.
asciilifeform: e.g., not homoiconic
phf: jurov: or that
asciilifeform: no lambda.
asciilifeform: no proper arrays even.
jurov: lol first me tormenting alf with ed, now they awk
mircea_popescu: ok, you know, say that! "i want a homoiconic thing with lambda", rather than "tc"
asciilifeform: hey vdiff is in awk.
mircea_popescu: which is what the first pass of this convo actually exactly was, iirc.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1411970 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2016 15:48:49; mircea_popescu: listen, if you say "diff should parse scheme" instead of "diff should be turing complete" people'd follow a lot easier.
asciilifeform: anyway if i already knew what this needs to look like, i'd have already written it.
mircea_popescu: obviously.
asciilifeform: it needs to come out of the 'resistance of the medium' from the sort of thing we find ourselves doing with regularity.
mircea_popescu: which is why one'd expect a lot more alma matering of stuff like polarbeard's.
mircea_popescu: he's bound to run into a shitton of resistance of the medium in short order with that thing.
asciilifeform: if only it were so simple. do you notice what most programming types do when they run into a forest ?
asciilifeform: they build bulldozer, drive right through the oaks.
mircea_popescu: aha.
jurov: maybe we'll end up with vtron that actually allow to implement source code parser inside vpatches so that it computes checksums for every function
asciilifeform: as described by naggum, http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3144404199547949@naggum.no.html
assbot: source access vs dynamism - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/217BSgV )
mircea_popescu: maybe we could name it php!
jurov: and the graph will be made from these checksums
jurov: so that descendants will list code snippets the actually depend on
jurov: instead of whole files
asciilifeform: jurov: forget about usefully parsing cpp.
asciilifeform: it is quite likely undecidable.
asciilifeform: (make of this what you will)
jurov: someone inewitably will try it anyway. and i wish to see your face upon seeing vpatch with embedded cpptron
asciilifeform: i am quite certain that every possible thing will be tried.
phf: vpatch generating mandelbrots
asciilifeform: betcha somebody's very busy stuffing the winblowz crud back in, for instance.
asciilifeform: and somewhere, probably not too far from each of us,
asciilifeform: a pig is eating its own shit.
asciilifeform: what of it.
mircea_popescu: jurov> someone inewitably will try it anyway. and i wish to see your face upon seeing vpatch with embedded cpptron <<< abhahaha win
jurov: actually, that's logical conclusion of what you want. instead of "teh stupid +++ --- stuff" make c++ parser, apply a transform and generate code
asciilifeform: jurov: do you know why not ?
asciilifeform: because it is HEAVY
asciilifeform: remember 'fits in head' ?
jurov: arbitrary text transformations like you dream of do not fit in head
asciilifeform: sure they do.
asciilifeform: tinyscheme fits in head.
asciilifeform: and it can do it.
asciilifeform: and it isn't even as slim as it could be.
jurov: then it couild also parse c++
jurov: it's arbitrary text transformation, too
asciilifeform: jurov: you are welcome to try parsing cpp, it would be a pretty useful proggy incidentally
asciilifeform: but the last time i asked for one, no one found any other than 'clang'.
asciilifeform: the language is gargantuan, just enough parser to ~compile~ is likely to take you a decade to write.
asciilifeform: and no one will read.
mircea_popescu: incredibly enough, afl's objections actually carry.
mircea_popescu: "arbitrary text transformations" but only between these two sets we carefully curated.
mircea_popescu: exactly like how human sciences work.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform now stop calling it "tc" and confusing people. concept needs a new name.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lacking a rigorously narrower complexity class, i am stuck with tc
asciilifeform: but if you have one, let's.
mircea_popescu: this is like saying "i want a whaleoctopusdeerkitten" because you dunno how to say girlfriend
asciilifeform: nah more like 'i need a bipedal mammal'
mircea_popescu: backpedal more like it amirite
mircea_popescu: snort snort nudge nudge
ben_vulpes: i read 'tc' in the sense of 'can express arbitrary actions', in the vein of the old joke about programming in $shitlang: "hey, it's turing complete, we can make it do whatever we need"
ben_vulpes: brainfuck etc
mircea_popescu: if a name is not produced we'll just call it alf-tc
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: you are thinking of 'turing tarpit'
asciilifeform: '... where everything is possible but nothing of interest is easy'
mircea_popescu: quite.
mircea_popescu: !up Jacmet
mircea_popescu: check it out, stolen plutoniumz.
asciilifeform: best h0stn4m3
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: yup.
mircea_popescu: is it supposed to say "stolen plutonium dick" ? possibly only better thing.
Jacmet: mircea_popescu: ;)
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1412091 << this is not even wrong ftr.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2016 16:54:08; asciilifeform: we have finessed the halting problem !1111
mircea_popescu: Jacmet who're you and what are you doing here ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how's that
mircea_popescu: nono. i don't mean THAT "not even wrong"
asciilifeform: ah l0l
mircea_popescu: i mean to convey my surprise and giddy excitement as to how it's not wrong.
asciilifeform: 'if all you have is Unix, certain problems are so staggeringly tall that it takes an extra special genius to see what the _real_ problem is because all the people who are trying to climb it make it look as if doing something else is stupid.' << naggum delivers.
mircea_popescu: but lacking a better complexity class...
asciilifeform: ahahaha
Jacmet: mircea_popescu: got a mail that you guys were doing something with Buildroot and if I could join?
mircea_popescu: o hey!
mircea_popescu: we are : it's become the replacement harness for bitcoin.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43850 @ 0.00057355 = 25.1502 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: whoa hey
mircea_popescu: and buildroot with musl prevented us from bathing in the same humiliation EVERYONE else ended up in with the recent gethostbyaddr thing
Jacmet: mircea_popescu: ahh, interesting
ben_vulpes: Jacmet: are you K?
mircea_popescu: so listen, register your gpg key with assbot.
Jacmet: mircea_popescu: and buildroot is working out of you or do you have some kind of problems?
Jacmet: s/of/for/
ben_vulpes: Jacmet: buildroot is working rather niftily.
mircea_popescu: so far it's working splendidly afaik.
mircea_popescu: !s buildroot
assbot: 251 results for 'buildroot' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=buildroot
asciilifeform: been working splendidly for nearly a year.
Jacmet: mircea_popescu: great
mircea_popescu: so get in teh wot, you have a lot of love here.
Jacmet: and yes, the current gpg key used for buildroot signing is getting quite old
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: that would be the one problem - the thing is a very valuable security asset, should be better protected.
mircea_popescu: make a 4kb key and use it rather than the strange md5 lists or what's that.
asciilifeform: Jacmet: as you probably know, buildroot is a coveted boobytrap target for 1,001 miscreants of various stripes.
Jacmet: mircea_popescu: true. I'll get the new key cross signed by the other devs at our next dev days and start using it
asciilifeform: Jacmet: and some folks have downloaded tarballs that don't pass checksum.
Jacmet: asciilifeform: really? We never had reports on the ml or on irc
asciilifeform: consider this a report.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform where was the line/dpaste ? dja recall ?
asciilifeform: digging for it now
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5413 @ 0.00057355 = 3.1046 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: but most recently, today
Jacmet: asciilifeform: what was the difference between the bad/good tarball? Real rogue code or just interrupted download?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1412151 << aww don't feel bad!☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2016 18:56:36; kakobrekla: logs tell me no one missed me, great :)
asciilifeform: Jacmet: i unfortunately do not have it presently.
mircea_popescu: Jacmet what is it, #buildroot ?
Jacmet: asciilifeform: ok, I would be *VERY* interested in comparing them
Jacmet: mircea_popescu: yes
asciilifeform: as would i.
mircea_popescu: and in unrelated news, do you take bitcoin donations Jacmet ?
Jacmet: mircea_popescu: I guess we could, but it has never come up so far
asciilifeform: Jacmet: the background: i originally picked up buildroot to do an arm system build for an obscure box. and then discovered that it is also the only practical means of compiling with musl instead of glibc, for any system
asciilifeform: and here we are.
mircea_popescu: so get that sane key made, reg it and sign an address, i'll send you a coin.
Jacmet: mircea_popescu: we're currently setting up a non profit organization around buildroot
mircea_popescu: that's a horrible idea if the wya such things work out in practice is any guide.
Jacmet: asciilifeform: ok
mircea_popescu: pick a strong leader in the form of a person, build your thing atop pgp sigs and forget the nonsense fiat.
Jacmet: mircea_popescu: we already have that (me ;)
mircea_popescu: so don't make the mistake.
mircea_popescu: it fucked up everyone to date.
ben_vulpes: !s linus
assbot: 148 results for 'linus' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=linus
mircea_popescu: x.org just recently lost their only asset because of inept "non profit" shenanigans.
ben_vulpes: !s de raadt
assbot: 35 results for 'de raadt' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=de+raadt
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23928 @ 0.00056222 = 13.4528 BTC [-]
mod6: Jacmet: thanks for stopping in.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: can't seem to find it in the logz
Jacmet: mod6: you're welcome
asciilifeform: Jacmet: i dare say that linux is only meaningfully alive today in the form of buildroot.
ben_vulpes: Jacmet: another thing worth pointing out are that sha1 and md5 are obsolete
Jacmet: ben_vulpes: yes, the key is from 2009 or so, where those were the defaults
ben_vulpes: whats the connection between key and file hash algos?
asciilifeform: Jacmet: if you open a nonprofit org, esp. in usa, you will be surrounding yourself with, and eventually giving control over various aspects of the project, to people who do not work in good faith.
asciilifeform: as happened with, famously, openbsd.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-02-2016#1407023 << thread.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 16-02-2016 16:36:23; asciilifeform: now the other thing about openbsd is the incident with theo and that microshit flunkie
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> make a 4kb key and use it rather than the strange md5 lists or what's that. << RSA too.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=02-12-2015#1335360 << more☝︎
assbot: Logged on 02-12-2015 04:13:47; BingoBoingo: "On a personal "hate ramen noodles and tuna" level, I agree. But my good-for-project-good-for-the-world side says the OpenBSD Foundation is more effective at growing the contribution pie and in particular funding the hackathons where great work happens." - Theo De Raadt
asciilifeform: !s bob beck
assbot: 27 results for 'bob beck' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=bob+beck
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37241 @ 0.00056222 = 20.9376 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: !up Jacmet
asciilifeform: ;;later tell phf http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=release << broken ?
assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/24l9iYC )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
phf: huh, indeed
phf: asciilifeform: ah, sorry i did a rename
phf: while early in the game, stable, experimental, uploads and deprecated
phf: you want http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=stable
assbot: trb ... ( http://bit.ly/24l9VkL )
phf: actually i don't know how to call them..
mircea_popescu: Jacmet give a looksee at how buildroot is currently used
mircea_popescu: mod6 got a link to the current sh ?
mod6: yeah.
mod6 finds
mod6: http://www.mod6.net/btcf/build-bitcoind-V99995.sh
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1mOPSt7 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23200 @ 0.00056651 = 13.143 BTC [+]
Jacmet: mod6: thanks. Any specific reason you guys are still on 2015.05?
asciilifeform: Jacmet: know of any specific reason why we oughta use a newer one ?
Jacmet: mod6: and why the manual download of openssl/db/boost instead of just letting Buildroot do it?
mod6: np. well, we've been working for quite a while now to get all of this tooling setup the way we need it. we haven't had a reason to move forward with the version.
Jacmet: asciilifeform: newer and shinier ;)
asciilifeform: Jacmet: we permenently froze specific versions.
asciilifeform: of all dependencies.
asciilifeform: the 'why' of this is best illustrated by the heartbleed incident.
mircea_popescu: Jacmet tmsr doth not believe in upgrades. on the contrary, the versions here count towards 0.
Jacmet: asciilifeform: E.G. updated openssl, there's been some security fixes since 1.0.1g
mod6: <+Jacmet> mod6: and why the manual download of openssl/db/boost instead of just letting Buildroot do it? << actually, one thing I think we're considering is doing a modification to buildroot so that we don't pull its deps over the wan via rsync. is there a way, currently, to just place all of its deps somewhere so it won't rsync?
asciilifeform: Jacmet: we don't use tls for anything, nor ever intend to.
Jacmet: mod6: yes, the download infrastructure in buildroot will only download if the tarball isn't already available in the dl dir, or you can point it to a local mirror
phf: Jacmet: bitcoind uses openssl for low level crypto operations, not actual client facing stuff
Jacmet: asciilifeform: ok
mod6: Jacmet: oh fantastic, glad i asked.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42350 @ 0.0005679 = 24.0506 BTC [+] {3}
mod6: i was sweating that we were going to have to 'roll our own'.
mod6: :]
mircea_popescu: moreover, it's marked for replacement. just, iffy thing to replace, the crypto lib.
mod6: Ok Gentlemen, I've gotta run for a few here. Jacmet: Thanks again for stopping in. When you're ready with your new key, stop on back and we'll help you get setup in the WoT. Cheers!
mod6: !up Jacmet
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28528 @ 0.00056222 = 16.039 BTC [-]
polarbeard: mircea_popescu: so no love for da hooks? :) actually I'm not confortable at all using cpp...
mircea_popescu: what do you normally use ?
polarbeard: my daily work involves the rightfully hated javascript
mircea_popescu: oic.
mircea_popescu: pretty alien this whole landscape huh ?
polarbeard: but I usually prefer expressive non-bullshit languages
polarbeard: cpp is full of it
mircea_popescu: i would suspect as far as alf is concerned, javascript is cpp.
BingoBoingo: javascipt is worse, cpp on top of cpp
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1412184 << speaking of which, ever tried tourianski's establishment ?☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2016 19:16:07; phf: this place is great http://www.russianturkishbaths.com if you're ever in nyc
phf: no, what's that?
mircea_popescu: mmm danielpbarron's gf was iirc a canadian bath gal.
mircea_popescu: lemme see, should be in logs.
mircea_popescu: well not directly apparent. nevermind i guess
phf: oh, is that some other bathhouse in nyc?
mircea_popescu: might have been vancouver or something.
phf: aah, i'll ask him when he's around, but that's west coast. they have great saunas there
mircea_popescu: i'm sorry, just a vague memory at this point.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 152914 @ 0.00057355 = 87.7038 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15386 @ 0.00057356 = 8.8248 BTC [+]
phf: fwiw cascade range has a bunch of fantastic hot spring places. there's one next to Seattle, one next to portland, i mean of the the ones i've been too. but there's also numerous holes of course
asciilifeform: http://www.visual6502.org/images/6502/index.html << moar for old thread re: same.
assbot: 6502 Images ... ( http://bit.ly/1L47Tza )
phf: in fact i'm going to breitenbush two weeks from now, in the ben_vulpes area
mircea_popescu is not terribly fond of hot springs, for some reason they attract old folks.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1412261 << that's pretty weird.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2016 20:02:18; jurov: why do i keep getting such obscure stuff...
phf: i used to do the whole 30 minute run through winter forest for a cold plunge in прорубь thing growing up, so i like hotsprings in winter. you get a pretty reasonable crowd around this time too, no idea how it is in summer
mircea_popescu: sounds like perhaps an actual buffer hole or something.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22114 @ 0.00057356 = 12.6837 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1412317 << wtf.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2016 20:19:18; jurov: even system('ls') fails
BingoBoingo: Fiat system https://archive.is/Pw5Yr
assbot: Jared Carrabis on Twitter: "Welp. Here it is. Via the @BostonGlobe, the picture that everyone's going to be talking about tomorrow. https://t.co/FbWPrm8DfH" ... ( http://bit.ly/1L49wg0 )
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1412433 << this is where i point and laugh at you and mumble sometrhing about alf's admonition not to eat out of schemes☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2016 20:52:04; phf: man, writing scheme is like trying to build an eiffel tower out of toothpicks
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 437.7, vol: 11075.47017945 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 434.15, vol: 9701.36175 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 440.53, vol: 43990.17093531 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 440.0, vol: 0.60533968 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 448.2492, vol: 65369.96210000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 432.3158, vol: 870.71229551 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 436.63648, vol: 71.6372979 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: ;;more
gribble: 443.61158638
ben_vulpes: phf: popular place with the ru folk in the area
ben_vulpes: heck of a journey tho
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7900 @ 0.00057396 = 4.5343 BTC [+]
gernika: phf: Had a terrible vegetarian thanksgiving dinner at Breitenbush. I did see a naked woman there though, as a teenager.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39300 @ 0.00057396 = 22.5566 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: what'd you say to her ?