assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 21:09:48; cazalla: qntra/trilema down here so can't update :\
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 21:38:56; mike_c: nginx always works. I have never been disappointed in it. Recommending shit to people is always a -EV process, but..
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 22:12:44; trinque: I have to run, dunno what hoon is but I'll see if I can find info on it
mircea_popescu: you can just have your python run off cron, and dump stuff into mysql
mircea_popescu: you want a python script to be executed on page load ?
mircea_popescu: move cpanel's apache to a diff port, and allocate 80 to yours.
mircea_popescu: then have python drop the statics in /home/whatever and apache will automagically serve them ?
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> move cpanel's apache to a diff port, and allocate 80 to yours. <
mircea_popescu: and if python.h fails, you prolly don't have th epaths set up right, it'll fai lthe same with or without some derpy package manager.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well actually it wouldn't run, especially if you kill that port in firewall.
mircea_popescu: linux doesn't work. any of it. picking some random idiocy to make an example of is futile.
mircea_popescu: gentoo is a piece of shit. debian is a piece of shit. centos is a piece of shit.
mircea_popescu: apache is a piece of shiot. so is nginx. so is everytrhiong else.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: nope. why would i even bother with www except for a blog
mircea_popescu: this, btw, is my constraint. fuck "fits in head", i dun care.
mircea_popescu: kinda why i'm discovering all i really like off unix these days is like... curl. grep.
trinque: asciilifeform's shit detector is impeccable
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12950 @ 0.00029075 = 3.7652 BTC [-] {2}
trinque: asciilifeform: there's a question here related to my make the thing a database rant
Adlai: vhost-: help out the poor asciilifeform
trinque: asciilifeform: I think I read on your blog something about how source code should be stored as ASTs not text?
trinque: something along those lines
Adlai: fat is the new phat
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: According to Dr. Oz and Gawker media
trinque: imo if the state of the system is represented as structured data a lot of these "munge the config more easily" programs go away
Adlai: trinque: what, you want a table with two columns, CAR and CDR?
☟︎ trinque: let it never be said that cl does not go to 11
assbot: Logged on 29-04-2015 00:17:42; mircea_popescu: so you have your own web server written in python ?
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: I'm just astounded at how he suggests he anticipated his appearance on the show could be anything other than a trap and how he failed to prepare accordingly
danielpbarron: yeah i'm waiting for the end of the article where he admits to satire
pete_dushenski: "Orioles will play Wednesday's game vs White Sox with NO audience in the stands." << heh. one for BingoBoingo.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: At least Ferguson is decently removed from the St Louis city center
pete_dushenski: eh. st louis could use a kick in the pants from what i hear.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo mainly in terms of st louis being known for murders and crimes, and that a proper boiling over of the tensions between police and citizens could bring about positive resolution, whoever 'wins'
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: I think some hmility was imposed when some of the black kids got too amped up on "kill whitey" and started going after Bosnians. Seems they learned better than to do that within a month or so.
mircea_popescu: "Instantly, I knew I was walking into a trap. I looked around, half hoping for a hug or some assurance that everything was going to be okay"
mircea_popescu: so basically... cpanel is super-security. even if malware expert gets root... what good is it ? :D
mircea_popescu: "I tried to take the conversation out of feelings and into logic by claiming that" << roosh is a fucktard srsly.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo and where's ferguson at these days ? i haven't heard much out of there recently.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Largely refugees came over in the 1990's colonized south city. The generation of Bosnians being targeted were largely the kids... The older ones seemed very unhappy about that...
pete_dushenski: in terms of street violence, dead cops, local politics.
BingoBoingo: Ferguson's been mostly tamed by Sharptoon and other FBI folk
BingoBoingo: Back to just the normal shootings, police retreated, longtime businesses closing up and leaving
pete_dushenski: cities like ferguson would be best served by a fleet of amazon delivery drones.
pete_dushenski: dropping packages ordered online and heading back to homebase in the country far, far away
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, is it at least crunching the numbers ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Mostly moving to retirement
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: I think you underestimate the potential drone casualties
mircea_popescu: in the sense that is it still usable as a cpanel box or will i have to have it reflushed.
BingoBoingo starting to believe that Stan's gentoo build is so far from normal "linux" might as well be called Stannix nao
mircea_popescu: a further three day experiment in the "linux is worthless and broadly unusable" meme. i guess it needed more documentation.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo not in the slightest. just that drones are cheaper than people. certainly with the us legal system such as it is. see mp's piece on 'how to go out in a blaze of glory'
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Normal in terms of distance from your box to median boxen
BingoBoingo: When did AWS overtake Godaddy.com for that honor?
mircea_popescu: the only worse alternative to the worlds 2nd most common hoster seems to be... the world's MOST common.
decimation: aws does seem to have some degree of ddos protection
trinque: probably done like shit; was written on the can after all
decimation: asciilifeform: have you ever actually tried to grok ipsec? it's a nightmare
decimation: yet somehow it's the defacto standard for 'vpn'
BingoBoingo: Godaddy shoves its own Cpanel in everything
mike_c: mircea_popescu: you're not crazy. sorting the timestamps works in chrome, not in FF. I'll investigate.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22200 @ 0.00028737 = 6.3796 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: i'm bracing myself for the one day when we discover unequal fives somewhere on the internet.
trinque: sounds like javascript math
mircea_popescu: yeah, thinking about it hey mike_c maybe cheaper than investigating is altering the date format to numeric ?
BingoBoingo: Nah, what's missing is me cataloguing all of the plants growning in the front flowerbeds, looking them up, and discovering the bulk of them are cardiotoxic.
mike_c: yes, it would be, but then don't I get into arguments with the europeans?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8188 @ 0.00030438 = 2.4923 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49850 @ 0.0003081 = 15.3588 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: modsecurity ITSELF is buggy when interacting with mod_remoteip. the devs understand the problem about as well as you'd expect of the php folk.
mike_c: k. i also fixed the big wot graph cutting off some names on the sides
mike_c: changing the date format helped. went from AP style "Dec. 12, 2012", "April 12, 2012" to more simple short format "Dec 12, 2012", "Apr 12, 2012"
mike_c: JS date parser was choking on former
decimation: "Of course, large corporations do exist. That is because as clumsy as they are, they can still be less clumsy than the alternative, which is to break a corporation into a network of contractually related divisions. "
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> 'What's a manager to do with a heap of stuff that isn't managed and doesn't wish to be?' 'Burn it ?' (from mircea_popescu's site) << pure gold << This is how I've been getting exercise these past couple weeks. Shovel and glyphosate + troclopyr... Actual fire comes later
mircea_popescu: decimation that is not why large corporations exist. large corporations exist because it is cheaper for the socialist state to interact with larger items than with smaller items.
BingoBoingo: "burndown" is the only solution to certain problems in horticulture
mircea_popescu: that's why 100 employers of 10 employees each need a pile of paperwork from city hall, whereas one employer of 1000 employees gets free money from city hall
decimation: "I do think that government often tilts the scale in favor of large organizations. The high fixed cost of regulatory compliance is one factor. Government has been a key customer in industries like aerospace, information technology, and finance, and the fixed costs of selling to government are very high, because of all of the hoops that you have to jump through."
mircea_popescu: blackwater "sold to the goverment" by jumpiong through the following hoops : "if you send anyone to investigate us, we'll just kill them"
mircea_popescu: haliburton didn't even bother, just "lost" a trillion.
decimation: the corruption in selling physical goods to usg is nowhere near the size of the corruption of 'selling services'
mircea_popescu: would you prefer being raped by ten thousand slimy worms
mircea_popescu: governments everywhere always prefer the bull in that equation. tho their ideal is a herd of goats.
mircea_popescu: apparently easier to hallucinate "a relationship" with the bull.
decimation: well, the government believes they can make the bull like them
BingoBoingo: What socialism truly deserves is taking it from a duck of extraordinary size
decimation: and of course it is very much in bull's interest to pretend
assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 01:42:33; decimation: then I heard this podcast:
http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2013/02/glenn_reynolds.html << "Guest: It's funny--one of my friends, who has been a long-term, upper level bureaucrat in Washington said to me his favorite phenomenon to see is these people coming through these usually politically-appointed jobs and, he says: They think everybody loves them. And then they leave the job and they realize that eve
assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 01:42:35; decimation: that once they are not in the job any more they realize they don't have nearly as many friends as they thought they did. The smarter ones do know this. And that's why so many[?] hang onto power. "
Pierre_Rochard: !v assbot:Pierre_Rochard.rate.davout.1:400210684ec922303e0cfa010509d4eb36cacd24b5ad98a221944aac7c1aa9c6
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for davout with note: francais, être raisonnable
mircea_popescu: "Tried to install and got this error message: “access key doesn’t exist create it in WHM” What to do? Thank you."
mircea_popescu: "At root whm go to Main >> Cluster/Remote Access >> Setup Remote Access Key Then click Generate New Key and retry to install"
mircea_popescu: "Thank you very much; this is working very fine now. Great script and glad to get it installed. Success!"
decimation: "IOW, all the people who say that it's about avoiding context switches are probably just full of shit. It's not about context switches, it's about bad user-level code."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11500 @ 0.00029196 = 3.3575 BTC [-]
TomServo: +asciilifeform | since quitting bsd ('04) << I'd love to hear more about this. Or why the preference for linux?
decimation: mircea_popescu: yeah, moore's law has been pretty dead since 2005
decimation: note, transistor sizes have still shrunk, but clock rates haven't gone up
decimation: and it's painfully obvious that intel and friends have no idea how to actually make use of their sea of transistors
decimation: other than "do more of what we have been doing for 30 years"
decimation: I predict that in the future this whole era of 'multi-core' manufacturing will be seen as crazy
BingoBoingo: TomServo: asciilifeform was a FreeBSD man, but device drivers pushed him away, if I recall correctly nao CLANG+LLVM keeps him away
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Indeed. OpenBSD is GCC based and still weird on devices. Also generally weird.
TomServo: pogoplug and such I understand.. but how does it factor in the cpanel debate?
BingoBoingo: Cpanel's primary design goal seems to be disorienting people when they try unperverted stuff such that they get hooked on the dope
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15200 @ 0.00030895 = 4.696 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: In library school for web projects some of the doctoral students I met had a dependecy on it an phpmyadmin for their web work. They did surgeries, I wondered if they contorted so because they needed to burn hours of their life or if they needed to meet "expectations"
decimation: not only does ssl enable the fucktarded certificate crypto, it enables nefarious 'customized' behavior
BingoBoingo: decimation: Also all kinds of weird packet edge cases
decimation: it exactly enables a 'walled-garden' model
BingoBoingo would very much like triclopyr over ip protocol-protocol
mircea_popescu: to this date i dunno wtf happens that i end up with corrupted ips.
decimation: mircea_popescu: possibly shitty lan hardware?
decimation: in theory it is still possible to sniff ssl traffic, but it's quite complex
decimation: and makes it impossible to have a 'triangular' model of networking
mircea_popescu: either set req.
http.X-TVIP = client.ip; in varnish fucks up and sets the wrong thing ; or else, mod_remoteip fucks up the RemoteIPHeader X-TVIP conversion.
mircea_popescu: impossible to debug, and DEFINITELY not worth debugging.
gribble: Current Blocks: 354171 | Current Difficulty: 4.761056451347126E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 354815 | Next Difficulty In: 644 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 6 hours, 21 minutes, and 27 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 48392476656.4 | Estimated Percent Change: 1.64231
BingoBoingo: williamdunne: You might want to use a different control character
williamdunne: BingoBoingo: You're right, I'll make it @ or summin
gribble: Error: ";;;addfeed" is not a valid command.
BingoBoingo: williamdunne: Mircea has wanted oglaf on the feed though, would be nice to have it in a way that isn't me doing "/nick oglafbot"
danielpbarron: some guy reposted the funniest SEW quotes from tumblr to twitter
decimation: asciilifeform: apparently every agency in the dc/baltimore area is trying to pacify baltimore
decimation: I'm sure you could hear amusing stuff on your scanners
williamdunne: I'm suggesting that if with .json it returned valid json it could not break btcalpha with the suggested update
williamdunne: I'm assuming btcalpha is parsing the API in its current state
williamdunne: So if it were changed so that it uses valid json
danielpbarron: would be interesting to learn how it was censored << lots of people all clicking "this account is offensive"
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'm a bit soaked in ETOH trying to protect my liver from cutaneous triclopyr exposure earlier today, not sure how to extract from Google clutches
BingoBoingo is kind of aware BingoBoingo is not a broadleaf weed, but still taking post exposure prophylaxis against strange chemicals
mircea_popescu: some dude in caen got sent to jail for publishing a reverse-engineered version of skype
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Because the target was MS-limb Skype and the impact makes a contrast to the "American Approach" could be a qntra
mircea_popescu: 's all that's in there. what the guy actually reversed (of note) was the rc4 compression, and what really got them boiling is that he published it on his blog.
BingoBoingo: How many people have been punished for it?
BingoBoingo: A hook is: what really got them boiling is that he published it on his blog.
BingoBoingo: I'm afraid to touch translations of the French language, but a certain subset of my WoT seems comfortable enough I'd publish their writeups on a Frog story
BingoBoingo: If this were a derp seemingly so treated in an Arizona court I would be all over this
BingoBoingo: Doesn't pretty much every linux Distro try to at least pretend to the PGP signed sherezade?
BingoBoingo: Nah, I'm not talking the "essential" "accessories" the distros themselves try to put up a PGP front
BingoBoingo: Even if it means actual vitals are missing and unsigned
BingoBoingo: The *buttu derps kinda set the bar low on what counts as a "distro"
mircea_popescu: note that nothing actually works in a number of different ways
BingoBoingo: Who could have known that "The Catcher in the Rye" was about computing and JD Salinger was a time machine victim exponsed to Ubuntu
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3678 @ 0.00028616 = 1.0525 BTC [-]
danielpbarron: used in a sentence: "I guess im in a polyamorous relationship since me and lelonia are both dating but I dont really feel like Im dating her&plus shes a headmate"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8242 @ 0.00030166 = 2.4863 BTC [+]
Adlai: the second UD definition seems much more accurate:
Adlai: "Some people can claim different ethnicities or sexualities, thus allowing them to join an autonomous caucus (for instance queer or women’s) that they were not otherwise entitled to join"
BingoBoingo: Oh shit, this new Marvel movie is actually smart. Perfect allegory for psot-Silk-Road Bitcoin.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7150 @ 0.00030895 = 2.209 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: James Spader plays an evil robot on point, and... Disney spent 4 Josh Hamiltons or 1 Coinbase on a film.
BingoBoingo: Seriously good Bitcoin allegory though. I will have to sober watch and blog up.
trinque: Adlai: I assume you have now slept off your drunkeness; I meanwhile have found my own
Adlai sips coffee and blinks
trinque: tell you what; this country is a shitty place, but I have the good fortune to have met a handful of americans worth knowing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14799 @ 0.00030895 = 4.5722 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5210 @ 0.00030895 = 1.6096 BTC [+]
Adlai: !up gabriel_laddel
assbot: Logged on 18-03-2014 14:54:45; nubbins`: "hey guys i'd like to open a sandwich shop, is there any place i can buy deli meats in bulk?"
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 21:47:49; trinque: unix's "everything is a file" is a poor man's "everything is data"
assbot: Logged on 21-04-2015 19:23:08; mircea_popescu: Pierre_Rochard you know the very notion that someone thinks themselves gay and jewish... it's like... the quadriplegic swimmer or something. the 98 yo beauty queen
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 20:56:45; ascii_field: i'd be open to a purely gnumake-based thing instead of the sh
Adlai splurts coffee all over irc too
Adlai: gabriel_laddel: at the very least, sending those in with a few-second delay would let assbot annotate the logs in a more readable manner
Adlai: she can't spam faster than the speed of flood
gabriel_laddel: 7.
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-04-2015#1113989 << When I change the argument list, rename a procedure, use an unnamed reference why are the holes not marked or filled? Why must I manually declare my local variables and functions? Can't the current top level expression be searched for occurrences then factored out on a keystroke? Why must I balance strings, whatever the level of nesting or escaping? Can th
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 17:16:36; mircea_popescu: think about it. why the fuck should the code have to know about this. and if it does have to know about this, why aren't ALL the code references affected by any of such a change cross-indexed somewhere ?
gabriel_laddel: is not be handled automatically? Why isn't there grammer/spellchecking for my comments? If I modify a package or system definition at runtime, shouldn't I be prompted to write that change to the defining expression? Why must I optimize my programs and add type annotations? Can't test data be used to add typing annotations in an automated manner? Can't this information inform modifications of the program's fundamenta
gabriel_laddel: l data structures to those appropriate for the information being pushed through it? If the type information exists, shouldn't it inform auto-completion? Shouldn't I be able to query over the type signature, known return types and lambda list of all procedures?
gabriel_laddel: Why isn't all this information part of the version control toolchain? I can't query over all commits to find those that changed `some-function'..? WHAT THE FUCK IS HTTP? All I want to do is expose a procedure to a network - how is this more difficult than selecting a list of procedures which are then exposed?
Adlai isn't sure "harder" is the right dimension
Adlai: Why must I manually declare my local variables << scoping
Adlai: automagic scoping goes wrong once you start messing with eg closures
Adlai: contrived example is contrived
gabriel_laddel: I should be able to have a cursor on either one of the (x 4) and hit a keystroke to extract it into a let binding
Adlai: you mean turning that into (let ((y (x 4))) (+ y k y)) ?
gabriel_laddel: ^ anyway, all of the above are simple if you adknowledge that you've got to operate on an AST
gabriel_laddel: if you don't you'll be fucked, because generating syntatically correct code means AST manipulations
gabriel_laddel: I'll note that I wrote a prototype for the RPC described above - ran into an issue with TCP or the library I was using it from. Messages were disappearing in flight.
☟︎ assbot: Logged on 27-04-2015 23:07:20; mircea_popescu: i'd settle for a well documented and judiciously defaulted gentoo.
gabriel_laddel: If someone would like to make themselves useful and move us that much closer to a source-only #-assets distribution, a CL interface to portage is desperately needed.
Adlai hasn't yet recovered from elisp overdose
gabriel_laddel: Adlai: you're piping data back and forth from CL to elisp or...?
gabriel_laddel: Portage has a USE flag (what is that? Idk, some nonsense abstraction) for docs so you can tell it to build all docs, but it gets caught in cyclic dependencies atm.
☟︎ Adlai: tried to read masamune code
gabriel_laddel: Anyways, if someone were to move portage to CLOS detecting cycles is easy, hence we can have all the documentation we ever wanted
gabriel_laddel: something went wrong with imaxima and gnuplot in portage - it only works on one of my machines now
gabriel_laddel: Another useful thing someone could do is to figure out how we would go about generating a canonical hardware -> driver mapping
trinque: "I can't query over all commits" << man I yell about wanting to query the state of everything constantly
gabriel_laddel: ^ this contains information about how to get a list of all hardware - the kernel can determine hardware -> driver mappings somehow. Find, document.
gabriel_laddel: regarding comprehensible computing - an observation, sbcl vs. GCC
trinque: grammar : AST :: schema : rows
gabriel_laddel: one could tear out all windows crud from SBCL, and replace the C crud with some clever assembler hacks in a manner similar to what I've been told T did.
Adlai: trinque: make them all equal! tables of cons cells! cdr-coded self-joins!
trinque: Adlai: when does relational algebra get its "cycle"
Adlai: three bushels of hax
trinque: fwiw the best relational system is probably yet to be built, and is probably made of lisp
assbot: Logged on 29-04-2015 00:40:05; Adlai: trinque: what, you want a table with two columns, CAR and CDR?
trinque: it's just lists of lists after all, with something which guards inserts/updates into it
trinque: you lispfolk can rip the relational database from my dead hands
trinque: it's fine for pulling levers on my database, but that's it
gabriel_laddel: like, say that I want to find all javascript functions with 3 arguments
trinque: you can have an invalid AST in lisp, in terms of your grammar; no one stops you from making any pile of cons cells
trinque: if I represent a grammar in SQL tables you cannot fuck it up
trinque: any atomic alteration of the state of it cannot be wrong
trinque: I can bitch slap your mistakes with constraints and the very structure of my schema
trinque: that is what I love about it
Adlai: this is starting to sound like unfeature #4
Adlai: put more constructively: does your constraint grammer allow for extending itself?
trinque: sure, but specifically how
gabriel_laddel: (filter (lambda (l) (and (eq :function (car l)) (= 3 (length (nth 2 l))))) (js-ast #P"~/somejsfile.js"))
trinque: of course one can alter schema at will
Adlai: can you stick some row into some table of constraint specifications, which lets future-you insert previously-invalid rows
trinque: I don't know why people act like relational databases are cast in iron
trinque: so yeah, you can just insert into that and alter the database arbitrarily
trinque: so one of the projects I built with that is a schema generator given some ebnf representation of a grammar
trinque: along with automatic to-string for the ASTs
trinque: so you can metaprogram like a motherfucker in an rdbms
trinque: SQL is just a terrible syntax.
trinque: SQL's a highly functional language, easy to think about
trinque: it's just operating on sets
Adlai: sounds like a defmethod print-object
trinque: gabriel_laddel: it's just a join between the tables that represent the grammar and the AST tables
trinque: so you can pull lexer tokens out of the former for example that aren't in the AST itself
trinque: I'm surprised you find the relational model controversial.
trinque: I don't see how it's incompatible at all with lisp.
Adlai: what's wrong with extending code-is-data to another data format?
Adlai: (beyond the hours forever lost turning into weeks you'll never get back)
Adlai: I'm not sure there's any parsing involved
trinque: so give me the enforcement of logical structure in lisp
Adlai: this seems to be more "store the AST in a db rather than text"
gabriel_laddel: Adlai: he is/was storing lexing and grammer information.
trinque: tool for representing business rules, piles of data, and trying to make money, please.
Adlai always found "business logic" reminiscent of "military logic" in the necessity of distinguishing it from plain simple old "logic"
☟︎ trinque: I think it's code for "not mine but his"
Adlai: or "who me, write my own code? nah"
Adlai: "fetch me your trainedest monkeys!"
gabriel_laddel: I'd like to clarify that what I'm finding appaling here is the huge amount of effort spent generating syntatically correct strings.
trinque: that's not the purpose of it at all.
gabriel_laddel: Sure, even in sexprs you have a 'grammer' you might want to check
trinque: how in lips could you take the ast of a view against one table
trinque: consider the ast of an operation to change the table
trinque: and derive the view that will apply to the new table
trinque: even if you pivoted one into two
trinque: being able to reflect and consider things as sets, not the tree, is valuable
gabriel_laddel: I have to check that I know what these terms mean before I respond. one sec
Adlai: back in the old days, there was no asdf:load-system... everything consisted of passing magic dispatch tokens to asdf:operate
Adlai: people became lazy... everything changed once the bitrot nation attacked
Adlai: ultimately, rdbms magic does NOT fits in heads
gabriel_laddel: trinque: could you rephrase "take the ast of a view against one table"
trinque: which amounts to an iteration over one or more lists with an if statement
Adlai: you can't "cat fixup >> database.sql"
trinque: other such logic, producing a result
trinque: gabriel_laddel: asumming the AST is represented as a set of tables with foreign key relationships, each table representing a production rule in the grammar
trinque: you have a childish way of speaking
trinque: well grow the fuck up, and discuss ideas like a man.
trinque: if I discovered a way to do something lispy in a non-lisp environment, do you think this'd be the first time I've done this?
trinque: so like, why do you think we put ASTs in the database?
gabriel_laddel: I've no idea why you did, but am assuming you've got some reason why
trinque: so then from what position do you proclaim lisp?
trinque: I'm not seeing the incompatibility of the things
trinque: there you go, now fucking iterate over two of them and filter by respective conditional expressions
trinque: pop the result into one new list
trinque: now worry about schema at appropriate places and you've got relational algebra
trinque: doesn't need a fucking postgresql
gabriel_laddel: everything is a "list of lists" or a "tree" when you get down to it (in the compiler - though yes, you can go directly stack machine).
gabriel_laddel: anyone /can/ add meta-programming to whatever language they want.
gabriel_laddel: because parsing is a terribly boring (and totally unnecessary) task.
gabriel_laddel: btw, I'm still putting together a model of what exactly it is you've done so that I can discuss this with you using your vocabulary...
gabriel_laddel: "how in lips could you take the ast of a view against one table" << This ends up being just hacking at sexprs with the full language at your disposal.
trinque: and if one of your hacks fucks up the logic of what it is to be a "whatever's in that list" ?
trinque: the idea is that your lisp code is always right, hence the data is right
trinque: whereas I assume everything's hell and hopefully the database will keep it all coherent
trinque: because a printer could fellate itself or linux could grow cancer and fill a disk
trinque: the database if told as much as is known about the data you want to represent, wont let you fuck it up
gabriel_laddel: you just end up writing a predicate to see that the information you're manipulating is (every #'string ...) or whatever
trinque: which amounts to building a database in to your thing, yeah?
gabriel_laddel: So, in your model of computing you get to work with incomplete languages in the "data model" and when generating "views". While this does provide defaults, when hacking lisp you always have the full language at your disposal.
BingoBoingo: Quick question... There's no macguffin the plot can use to out BTC BTC is there...
gabriel_laddel: Also, you don't have to parse anything, or have "generator rules" or whatever, which cuts out a lot of the complexity that you get when doing something like what you've done.
BingoBoingo still wonders about the search for a singular #b-a distribution when x86 sucks as much as it does...
gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: Making it production ready is going to take some time, but as is, it is better than any other distro I've used.
BingoBoingo: <trinque> if I represent a grammar in SQL tables you cannot fuck it up << You want to throw a stake down on that???
gabriel_laddel: Having the same keybindings for the web browser + editor gets me all hot and bothered.
trinque: yeah, if you represent anything correctly in relational tables you wont have false statements *according to your system*
trinque: you could totally be wrong
trinque: this assurance that the data means anything is why databases were created.
BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: Not dissing the project, just questioning the target.
BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: Dunno how useful I can be. Drunk on vodka trying to protect my vital fluids from triclopyr. Watched a Disney movie...
BingoBoingo: trinque: The problem with taking any extant, deployabru RDBMS is that unsanitzed inputs could throw out rm -rf /
BingoBoingo: Hopefully the DB doesn't have the rights for it to run, but...
gabriel_laddel: I'm simply of the opinion that our current platform (irc) is too barbaric and doesn't force enough shared context upon us to do anything interesting. Any sort of shared vision or whatever gets watered down into discussions like the above.
☟︎ gabriel_laddel: Without a shared language the logs will end up in endless cycles of the above.
BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: What makes you sure we have a shared platform, or that individuals here choose platforms for themselves singularly?
BingoBoingo: I doubt severely shared languages are a thing
gabriel_laddel: The preceding discussion was largely myself and trinque learning the others vocabulary.
trinque: I think the guy just means talking in person it is much easier to understand what's meant by the other.
gabriel_laddel: right now I can't draw you a 3D picture you can just open up, modify and send back to me
trinque: well then that's something true of any attempt to communicate
trinque: sure, big bottleneck there still
trinque: it's going to piss you off when I say we were attaching widgets to the various tables of our ASTs
trinque: this is what you're talking about right?
trinque: you want to send me data directly in some more meaningful structure
BingoBoingo: trinque: Baudot is the penultimate encoding
gabriel_laddel: "I need the ability to publish a unit of research as an interactive program containing all information used to draw my conclusions. It shall be entirely and trivially modifiable, extensible, and if reproducing the research is possible on this machine, running the program shall be a single click or procedure call away. WYSIWYG tools shall be included and fashioned from the precepts of geometry. Thus, if the supplied
☟︎ gabriel_laddel: graphics routines are inadequate, I can fall back on an 'api' independent of man. Lessons, as a refinement of research, shall offer the same capabilities. Networking (e.g., sharing these programs or crafting interactions between them) shall be trivial. No single authority shall dictate what is an isn't appropriate to publish. This is not to be enforced by social machinery which promises to promote and cherish scient
gabriel_laddel: ific inquiry, but as a consequence of a comprehensible, expressive design that empowers the individual. "
BingoBoingo: <trinque> sure, big bottleneck there still << Irony of ironies, bottleneck is the part of the bottle that broke such that poison exposure happened
BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: Couldn't a Perl OS do that? Works for make baby?
gabriel_laddel: ^ many thanks to stas for pointing me to that via his blog
trinque: gabriel_laddel: I'm headed towards bed; I'll read this tomorrow.
trinque: !rate gabriel_laddel 2 ...then I expect an operating system.
BingoBoingo just watched Disney produced "evil robot fiction" was surprised at the parts that weren't shitty
trinque: !v assbot:trinque.rate.gabriel_laddel.2:ebce74b8458b0e2934062e26da0b155a3b93e00ae745213213525f777b4d25c3
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 2 for gabriel_laddel with note: ...then I expect an operating system.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5800 @ 0.00029619 = 1.7179 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11505 @ 0.0002903 = 3.3399 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5795 @ 0.00028616 = 1.6583 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9830 @ 0.00029619 = 2.9115 BTC [+]
davout: basically the guy is being hung because the reverse-engineering wasn't made with the intent of creating something interoperable with skype, which is permitted under french law
punkman: davout, how did they figure that intent
davout: punkman: because he blogged about it and didn't keep it for himself, because of what he declared to the cops about making stuff to block skype, replicate its functionality without the backdoors
davout: so apparently this neucoin thing sold for 2.7kBTC worth of their, ahem, "coin"
☟︎ punkman: I had to get some paperwork from the police station today. old lady there looks at my ID, which is old and handwritten, and says "hey, I made this ID back in the day"
punkman: also, cab driver: "check out the hottie over there" *honks* "oh shit that was my cousin. damn she lost a lot of weight"
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00028666 = 2.5799 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7700 @ 0.00028666 = 2.2073 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13950 @ 0.00029619 = 4.1319 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16550 @ 0.00028521 = 4.7202 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: The core problem is that C programmers think they can get away with doing much less than the Common Lisp programmer causes the computer to do. But this is actually wrong. Getting C programmers to understand that they cause the computer to do less than minimum is intractable. They would not /use/ C if they understood this point, so if you actually cause them to understand it in the course of a discussion, you will only
mircea_popescu: make them miserable and hate their lives. People are pretty good at detecting that this is a likely outcome of thinking, and it takes conscious effort to brace yourself and get through such experiences. Most people are not willing even to /listen/ to arguments or information that could threaten their comfortable view of their own existence, much less think about it, so when you cannot answer a C programmer's "arguments
mircea_popescu: " that his way of life is just great the way it is, it is a pretty good sign that you let him set the agenda once he realized that his way of life was under threat. Since you have nothing to defend, your self-preservation instinct will not activate hitherto unused parts of your brain to come up with reasons and rationalizations for what you have done, you will not be aware that you have been taken for a ride before it
mircea_popescu: what you _have_ in point of fact ACTUALLY LOST is the ability to live in a world where things actually work,
mircea_popescu: as opposed to "well it mostly works" "you just have to..." "hey it works on MY system" etc.
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 17:16:36; mircea_popescu: think about it. why the fuck should the code have to know about this. and if it does have to know about this, why aren't ALL the code references affected by any of such a change cross-indexed somewhere ?
jurov: that world did never exist
mircea_popescu: jurov so is your argument something like "oh look how cute, mp found a socialism HE CAN BELIEVE IN!!1" ?
jurov: it§s easiest to believe in the past that is now lost
mircea_popescu: i was ftr not proposing this was a thing at any point in the past.
jurov: i don't get you then at all
mircea_popescu: the problem here is that we're regressing to the past (srsly, the varnish adventure is so reminiscent of "dos utilities" scene it bleeds) but with much more powerful tools and with much more societal dependency on them.
mircea_popescu: it is, if you wish, like if bitcoin were to take over and everyone depended on it in 2065, but then for some reason people started moving back to 0.5.3 codebase.
mircea_popescu: it might have been ok for 50 years ago, when the most damage that it could do was someone losing his retarded tripod poems
mircea_popescu: it has a decent chance at simply ending the world, now.
jurov: so you want to have progress, after all\
mircea_popescu: hm... i think the ddos might still be on. that lolz dude left exactly 246 s after i voiced him.
mircea_popescu: IF i am going to allow these retarded kids out of their basements and into society, they HAVE TO spiff up their act.
mircea_popescu: i guess this could be progress. it could also be normalization. whatever it is...
jurov: basically, it's like roads were replaced every few years (bevcause we can and it's cheap) so that cars would need constatnt upgrades and modifications
jurov: you come and ask for car that damn works in this situation
mircea_popescu: i am at the forefront of people who noticed, and demand changes.
jurov: moore is not the only game in town. network bandwidth is still going up.
jurov: if that hits the ceiling,too, maybe then.
mircea_popescu: bandwidth alone is not really that type of change tho. and it stopped going up also, esp in the us.
mircea_popescu: actually the forecasts are that 2020 bw will be less than 2015 was.
mats: ouch, TWTR falls 15%
mats: might be 19% pre market
mats: o nvm it fell below 20% at some point
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4228 @ 0.00029619 = 1.2523 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: lol i go to bed, gabriel_laddel comes online. avoiding unpleasant convos yo ? :D
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel: 1. A WoT host has been mentioned a few times in the logs - MP's new hosts << yeah i had sent teh guy an invite. all it takes is for him to actually show up etc.
jurov: i expect at least one round of redoing all the world if the derps succeed enforcing SSL everywhere
mircea_popescu: redefining "everywhere" != succeeding at ssl everywhere.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10350 @ 0.00028444 = 2.944 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: currently for instance, cpanel forums require ssl, and so i'm not visiting them. i don't generally visit sites that don't have a
http version.
davout: mircea_popescu: it's actually pretty useful to get rid of tons of paper
mircea_popescu: unrelatedly : Upupa epops might be the best latin name ever.
jurov: or ipv6, you can ignore it, but it may mean you'll be unable to find working code that does not have the bits you hate
punkman: related, I watched a cab driver fashion a cooling system for his lenovo tablet/gps thing because it'd overheat and shut down
mircea_popescu: jurov that's ok, i'm unable to find working code anyway.
punkman: but airline pilots relying on ipad for flight plan? wtf
mircea_popescu: "i used to be a pop star but then i took a down to the knee"
assbot: Logged on 29-04-2015 07:28:06; gabriel_laddel: ll try harder next time.
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 23:15:21; *: ben_vulpes rolls eyes
mircea_popescu: "And, as everyone knows, the best way to get amazing results is to set arbitrary goals without any basis for believing they can be reached. So I set out to search faster than grep by thirty percent." << damned straight. it's exactly how i manage. especially those... contractually obligated, shall we say.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7739 @ 0.00028444 = 2.2013 BTC [-]
chetty: And my girlfriend too, who's contractually obligated to pay attention to everything I say./// that is so sad
Adlai: mircea_popescu: what?
Adlai doesn't need to watch youtube, that shit goes down all around all year long
Adlai: bahaha "may the bits of your hard disk be sorted by value"
mircea_popescu: that yahoo thing tho... this is EXACTLY what yahoo was. even had to ban "shit" and "shithead" separately.
Adlai: ah yes that terrible swear word, Tangobh
mircea_popescu: that's prolly put i nthere special for shooting down ben_vulpes dating attempts in kindergarten.
mircea_popescu: "Put another way, grep sells out its worst case (lots of partial matches) to make the best case (few partial matches) go faster. How treacherous! As this realization dawns on me, the room seemed to grow dim and slip sideways. I look up at the Ultimate Unix Geek, spinning slowly in his padded chair, and I hear his cackle "old age and treachery...", and in his flickering CRT there is a face reflected, but it's my ex girl
☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: friend, and the last thing I see before I black out is a patch of yellow cheese powder inside her long tangled beard."
mircea_popescu: anyway, not that any of the retards involved in such considerations have the skill or werewithal to get it, but : this is a fine example of privilege in computing.
mircea_popescu: how did "worst case" interest group get to lose 70% so that "best case" interest group can gain 6% ? clearly this was enforced by an opressive, chauvinistic patriarchy which, to bother an irigarayism, "favours the speed of light over other speeds that are much more important to us".
mircea_popescu: and the case of optimized grep is the first and the last word on the matter of "you can not have democratic computing anymore than democratic anything else in this world. it's either good or democratic, pick one."
mircea_popescu: fact remains that raping the poor raw so that the rich can have it slightly better is not only the traditional way to do things back when things were still being done, but actually ~the correct way~.
mircea_popescu: and here comes the doozy : the correct way ~for everyone~!
mircea_popescu: grep is ~overall~ faster for this optimization, or in other words : the downtrodden are downtrodden for a reason. step on their faces!
mircea_popescu: no, not software. if i wake up to find that slavegirl shat the bed, i'm not going "shit must die"
mircea_popescu: the excruciation however, yes. i think you even saw one of the crosses.
mircea_popescu: eh that's a myth. anal sex helps continence, doth not reduce it.
davout: "some hobby of slavegirls renders them anally incontinent"
mircea_popescu: actually... some hobby of WIVES doth render them anally incontinent
mircea_popescu: but it's brief and blessfully resolves in the hospital.
mircea_popescu: davout is all "wtf this doesn't exist. oh THAT. myeah ok, it exists."
davout: heh, already heard about it, although thankfully that's not something i've witnessed
mircea_popescu: welcome to beartraps & caltrops day on bitcoin-assets. i'll be your lovely host, with the mostly incontinent Sharon Cohen serving as my co-something or the other.
mircea_popescu: Adlai btw, is ariel sharon totally a girl's name only to my ear ? or is it kinda lulzy in teh medinat too ?
mircea_popescu: "omaigawd i have to finish this by tomorrow because i had three weeks to do it but i was busy until tonight!!111"
Adlai: more common as a girl's name, but it's found as both
Adlai: i'd say it's lulzier that the guy just has two first names
Adlai: never trust a man with no last name
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8500 @ 0.00029134 = 2.4764 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: (mostly through historical accident : gypsy women used as whores throughout middle ages, ended up with kids without actual parentage, got "soft" father's name as it were)
mircea_popescu: mmm... no, colonized. invaded by the tumbler, twitter etc hordes.
Adlai: "Arvind Mithal (usually referred to as just Arvind)" well we solved that mystery
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's not saboteurs, it's kids looking for a special identity.
mircea_popescu: "can i please have the bullet then ?" "uhhh... but we don't make those anymore ? too expensive."
HeySteve: haven't been here for ages, how is everyone?
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 14:26:51; *: mats is busy working through "The Misbehavior of Markets"
HeySteve: mircea_popescu, do you have an opinion on Uruguay as a place to live?
Adlai: "Taaki and his sister once broke into an old hotel, stole the bibles from every room, doused them with cleaning fluid, set them on fire, and threw them down a well to see how deep it went. For that, their father never punished them."
Adlai: this is quite a bizarre level of mischief
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6897 @ 0.00029068 = 2.0048 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: The downtrodden are downtrodden for a reason. Step on their faces! on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1bekiPw )
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla might be an idea if assbot ignores scoopbot_revived
kakobrekla: i thought they would be friends but ok
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel "why are the holes not marked or filled?" << ftr this is not what i was contemplating. what I was contemplating is, why the fuck don't defaults pop up. bring back the fucking paperclip, put it the ONE place where it makes fucking sense. "hey john, I see you changed FuckOff() from bool to int. This function is called 82 places in 22 files. Would you like me to a) check all places where it's called and rep
☟︎ mircea_popescu: ort what I can figure out about the context ? b) iterate you through all locations ? c) change it back ? d) run a trace see what happens ?"
mircea_popescu: the computer's job is NOT to be the fucking master, and make its own decisions a la windows. the computer's job is NOT to be a solipsistic retarded geek and just do its own thing like anal children do.
mircea_popescu: the computer's job is to be a most humbly abject slave, perpetually and consumatedly on its knees following you around, with the dedication and unwavering insistence no dog can summon.
Adlai: aha, the good old C-c C-w C-c
☟︎ mircea_popescu: Adlai yeah, for that matter emacs does something very close to this, bar one fatal fucking flaw : pull. it should really be push.
mircea_popescu: i don't need to fucking remember to ask it. i can walk away from the terminal if i need some space.
mircea_popescu: i want it to complain to the dev about every.single.problem. EVERY SINGLE PROBLEM. and it must be as a fucking clickbox, in his face.
mircea_popescu: none of this "i'll fix the details later, i'm in the middle of doing sexy work now". fuck you and fuck your "ideas".
mircea_popescu: last time anyone "in computing" had an idea the year prefix was still 1.
davout: mircea_popescu kakobrekla mebbe make scoopbot_revived not mention the title and let assbot handle it?
☟︎ Adlai isn't sure there was a year prefix in those days
davout: mircea_popescu: sounds like each would do a small and simple job unix philosophy
davout: sounds better to remove code from scoopbot rather than add some conditional logic to assbot
mircea_popescu steps away slowly and in terror, letting the parties involved decide.
kakobrekla: the thing is that fucking conditional code is already in place as well
mircea_popescu: i would definitely read the essay discussing the merits of either side. i just realised i actually don't grok this shit.
Adlai: seems parsimonious that in a channel where a bot announces link titles, there's no need to supply them yourself
davout: because then what happens when scoopbot_revived is replaced by scoopbot_x or whatever
mircea_popescu: what happens if assbot dies ? we must lose scoopbot titling too ?
davout: i'm really too lazy to argue further, i just tend to remove code instead of adding more whenever i can get what i want either of those ways
mircea_popescu: what bothers me is that i see no way to either dismiss it, or pick it.
davout: I KNOW! LET'S REWRITE SCOOPBOT IN COMMON LISP!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11100 @ 0.00029619 = 3.2877 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel "Why isn't there grammer/spellchecking for my comments? " << this i can readily answer. because I am what's called "a creator of language", which is to say one of those people who, through his usage, ENACTS the rules all amateur users of language MUST follow, as a mark of their linguistic inferiority. like fucking shakespeare.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: and consequently the notion of "spellchecker" is undefined for me.
mircea_popescu: it has nothing to check against, i gotta do it by hand.
mircea_popescu: (and yes editors, which trilema doth employ, send the corrections with "did you mean to X" half the fucking time)
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10234 @ 0.00029627 = 3.032 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 29-04-2015 07:30:19; gabriel_laddel: Just trying to point MP at something
assbot: Logged on 29-04-2015 07:33:47; gabriel_laddel: I'll note that I wrote a prototype for the RPC described above - ran into an issue with TCP or the library I was using it from. Messages were disappearing in flight.
mircea_popescu: we're like brothers off the same mother over here. and check out how variant the fathers!
mircea_popescu: i suppose we should go beat her up, stupid fucking whore.
assbot: Logged on 29-04-2015 07:35:59; gabriel_laddel: Portage has a USE flag (what is that? Idk, some nonsense abstraction) for docs so you can tell it to build all docs, but it gets caught in cyclic dependencies atm.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00029677 = 3.6799 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-04-2015#1115422 << this, i will point out, is in no way related to any inherent property of either (unless you mean lisp is inherently going to fail), but simply a function of context. had the linux kernel been implemented in sclb, and had the past 20 years been spent with scbl being "the cool language", you'd be having zhe pronouns and assorted idiocy to the tune of > 10 mn lines
☝︎☟︎ assbot: Logged on 29-04-2015 07:42:58; gabriel_laddel: ~398k LoC vs. >14 million
mircea_popescu: in scbl, and c would be what c was in the 70s. ie, coupla hundred k's.
mircea_popescu: there isn't a way to write a program that can import a dict and fix my grammar.
mircea_popescu: and if I write the dict, there isn't a way to write a program that can import it at all.
mircea_popescu: trilema is filled with examples : i spell this the french way this time for stylistic reasons. what now ?
mircea_popescu: this spellchecker underlines it. nevertheless... différance
mircea_popescu: the incentives are badly alligned, and the habit of beating children (a subcase of, oppressing the oppressed FOR THE REASON that they're already oppressed) went out
mircea_popescu: but THIS is what the utility of that ancient "horror' and "unexplainable ancient cruelty" was : it kept this very significant problem of badly alligned incentives in check.
mircea_popescu: a) idiot interacts with system ; b) idiot forms malformed internal representation of system ; c) sane person has no incentive to fix b) ; d) system evolves ~always~ to match its representations.
mircea_popescu: this is unresolvable, except if one actually and deliberately enacts the positive feedback loop of "torture those in pain, beat those with welts on their body" etc.
mircea_popescu: if this mechanism is correct, then it follows that yes, the only reason gabriel_laddel thinks much of scbl is that no one else does.
mircea_popescu: much like how this place is readable PRECISELY because it's not facebook or w/e.
mircea_popescu: which has been an early theoretical proposition which we've so far been verifying.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6303 @ 0.00029781 = 1.8771 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: in any case, it is perfectly wrong to imagine scbl has the magical quality of magical quality (and then move on once the horde shows it trivially breaks). for one thing, c was a very intellectually respectable thing, back when i was a kid.
jurov: yea, it was respectable when compiler was less clever than programmer
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform load average: 0.00, 0.01, 0.01 << what sort of great moment is this!
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [13:23] that's prolly put i nthere special for shooting down ben_vulpes dating attempts in kindergarten. << i dun get it
mircea_popescu: the string "tango" was for ununderstood reasons banned on a very popular (among the females) chat application of the 80s, at a time you'rew supposed to have been in kindergarten.
mircea_popescu: it is humorously posited that this is the very explanation : they were trying to crimp your style specifically.
mircea_popescu: "you're supposed to have been", jesus who the fuck came up with english grammar. "o i know, we'll save on predicative modes!!1"
ben_vulpes: finding tango partners online is like 1/1000000th as good a use of time as finding bdsm partners
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [00:54] how the everliving fuck is cpanel used with anything other than php/static wwwtron << fwiw asciilifeform i went through a very similar saga on a very similar popescuian box. i just thought that "this was how things were supposed to be" and labored in silence.
ben_vulpes: probably how you derp around the machine shop
ben_vulpes: yeah, the thing ran, and well if you recall.
mircea_popescu: at any rate, THIS is why i ask people "well, can you do it on a cpanel box" well before.
☟︎ assbot: Logged on 29-04-2015 08:01:08; *: Adlai always found "business logic" reminiscent of "military logic" in the necessity of distinguishing it from plain simple old "logic"
mircea_popescu: ie, "you go design a better army and a better war over there with your wooden horse, toy sword and military costume, while we're gonna beat these assholes over here"
mircea_popescu: paulgraham.com fucking autoreloads itself wtf spammy idiocy is this.
mircea_popescu: "Confirmation can be tricky depending on what you mean by it. It’s trivially true but most people understand it to be interrupting confirmation. Which is egregiously … reprehensible. Despicable even."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7500 @ 0.00029923 = 2.2442 BTC [+]
davout: mircea_popescu: s/différance/différence/
davout: ah that was on purpose frenchified english
mircea_popescu: the reason "différance" exists is (in the context of our discussion) exactly to show that the spellchecker problem is np
davout: from what I find it's a neologism from jacques derrida
mircea_popescu: (this may be a polichinelle's secret for which everyone here just happens to be polichinelle, but : the history of discussion, problems and criticism of languages as approached by IT types almost exactly mirrors a very similar effort in teh humanities)
mircea_popescu: that either side is generally ignorant of the equivalencies is nothing short of hysterical, but hey. "specialisation drives performance", i'm told.
mats: special appearance by brendafdez
☟︎ BingoBoingo: "The hardest part was often reaching Fernández and Castiglione. “I had to call Brenda four times today,” she said with a smile." << lol
mod6: asciilifeform: I'm just trying to put together the monthy address; In one to three sentences cna you help me summarize what is going on with glibc/libnss?
☟︎ jurov: mod6 i can explain, too. to support different configurations for DNS/users/whatever resolving without glibc recompilation and without interprocess communication
jurov: the libnss was done as binary plugin to glibc
jurov: and whole mechanism is non-optional
mod6: ok maybe that's the part I was missing - how libnss is somehow tied to glibc.
jurov: thus truly statical compilation of glibc is impossbile
mod6: so libnss is dynamically compiled and built/linked to glibc, and can not be avoided?
☟︎ jurov: (and btw, it's different from mozilla's libnss)
ascii_field: and no, nothing to do with the mozilla one
mod6: it's not broke from the web-perspective. i've just read so much stuff that I've confused myself.
jurov: iirc alf avoided it somehow, while throwing out all DNS stuff, too
mod6: is that releated to his patch that removes the dns stuff?
ascii_field: jurov: the dependency vanishes if you remove -all- instances of host lookup
ascii_field: the patch, note, did not remove all (there is a 'what is my ip' thing in there )
ascii_field: note, written prior to the discovery of the libnss thing
mod6: ok, so that helps us going forward then.
mod6: we were on track at that point to try to cut a milestone. but just about that time is when we hit the tx validation problem in 168`000 ; I think your patch just got lost in the shuffle.
mod6: Anyway, going forward, we've got something to work around this issue. So, thanks for that.
mod6: <+ascii_field> the patch, note, did not remove all (there is a 'what is my ip' thing in there ) << ah, i recall. ok and this is what initiated the conversation about SHA256 addy's as opposd to dotted quads right?
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> ~whether one even uses libnss or not~! << so even if we didn't even call "whatsMyIP()" or w/e it is, this would still be a dingleberry attached to glibc.
mod6: Anyway, thanks guise. I think that helps me clear a few things up.
ascii_field: mod6: go build 'helloworld' and see if it stays depended
mircea_popescu: mod6 what i mean is, for as long as you use any sort of function touched, whether you yourself use any of the libnss "functionality" or not, its gonna be there
mircea_popescu: you can't go "oh i don't use libnss anyway". you probably are.
☟︎ mod6: <+jurov> the libnss was done as binary plugin to glibc << so there is no possible way to just build glibc by hand and not include libnss? or there are basically so many things that use libnss that even if you did, stuff wouldn't work anyway?
jurov: i haven't explored it to that depth
mircea_popescu: mod6 building glibcc "by hand" is not the trivial taks you make it out.
mod6: im sure it's not. just was sort of thinking about it in some context of "roll your own environment"
mircea_popescu: yeah but then you end up with something that works for you
mircea_popescu: and then... x person says this doesn't work. what now ?
mod6: and only on your machine.
mod6: since this discussion, im gonna go back and re-read these logs.
mircea_popescu: but it can't be started from the glibc i don't think. that's the middle.
assbot: Logged on 29-04-2015 08:33:16; gabriel_laddel: I'm simply of the opinion that our current platform (irc) is too barbaric and doesn't force enough shared context upon us to do anything interesting. Any sort of shared vision or whatever gets watered down into discussions like the above.
mircea_popescu: there's a balance to be had between "shared context" and "mass hysteria". a meeting of autonomous minds is one of the very best ways to achieve that balance.
assbot: Logged on 29-04-2015 08:36:13; gabriel_laddel: why?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28411 @ 0.00029941 = 8.5065 BTC [+] {3}
mod6: haha, is that a reverse-stocks of somesort?
mircea_popescu: well... plenty of subjects are actually rather cooperative, which makes the instruments more... ergonomic.
assbot: Logged on 29-04-2015 08:38:32; gabriel_laddel: "I need the ability to publish a unit of research as an interactive program containing all information used to draw my conclusions. It shall be entirely and trivially modifiable, extensible, and if reproducing the research is possible on this machine, running the program shall be a single click or procedure call away. WYSIWYG tools shall be included and fashioned from the precepts of geometry. Thus,
trinque: I was drunk enough to deal with him at the time :D
trinque: mircea_popescu: yes html does sort of what he's talking about
mircea_popescu: i have the fucking body of research all published, which is why i can always link
mircea_popescu: he's sitting over there going "hmm.... i would need something like a tube... but with fins on it... yeah that's right, two large fins..."
trinque: this is the guy working on a distro?
trinque: "tits or gtfo" as far as that goes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9200 @ 0.00029732 = 2.7353 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: obviously what's blinding him to this is the expectations that machines could process it. this trivially can never be the case.
mircea_popescu: "Attend our Remote coding school for as little as $2,780." omfg wtf.
mats: euro debt having a bad day
mircea_popescu: "The studious will note that this is a completely solved problem that no machine learning algorithm will be able to approximate anytime soon." i'm sorry...what ? solved how ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: mats yeh eurozone is benefiting from "russian sanctions"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1000 @ 0.0016007 = 1.6007 BTC [-]
mats: got ma popcorn ready
mircea_popescu: " When the "people" of earth finally get the message that brainpower is the limiting regent in life they'll soon start to change their tune - or find themselves living in a ~leper colony/africa." << this is not how things work
mircea_popescu: "when water stops being wet it'll suddenly seek dryness". sure. wut ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.0002962 = 1.7772 BTC [-]
williamdunne: ;;later tell kakobrekla would it be possible for w.b-a.link/some/parameters to return valid JSON?
assbot: Logged on 29-04-2015 10:25:18; punkman: also, cab driver: "check out the hottie over there" *honks* "oh shit that was my cousin. damn she lost a lot of weight"
ascii_field: motherfucking rc.local doesn't run on boot in this ver of rathead
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3629 @ 0.00029631 = 1.0753 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1000 @ 0.00169179 = 1.6918 BTC [+] {9}
jurov: williamdunne: you mean w.b-a.link/trust/some/else/json? yes that could return {} instead of "no data"
williamdunne: Basically some way to get json on the trust between two people
jurov: williamdunne: but in cases where ther is data, it works
mircea_popescu: "The vulnerability affects the WordPress versions 3.9.3, 4.1.1, 4.1.2, and the latest WordPress version 4.2."
mircea_popescu: "Moreover, Pynnonen reported the vulnerability to the WordPress team but they “refused all communication attempts” he made since November 2014." heh
mircea_popescu: see, the exact thing happening in bitcoin, where the power rangers fell off the curve, happened long ago to wordpress.
mircea_popescu: the notion that their "latest" is used or relevant is teh lulz.
mircea_popescu: mhagelstrom PGP: 548A 84F8 60CF E0AB EA11 A2BA 4D34 0126 F402 0636 ?
davout: BingoBoingo: s/heals/heels/
mircea_popescu: ascii_field load average: 0.40, 0.54, 0.30 what speed is that ?
mircea_popescu is really curious what gcd over rsa keys actually looks like in terms of resource consumption.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu is also invited to read the src
ascii_field presently trying to discover why the fucker runs from anywhere -other- than crontab
mircea_popescu: anyway, off to eat, will flyplow with this more later.
ascii_field: when phuctor coldboots it regens the product over the moduli
ascii_field discovers that he was not this retarded when having written the thing
mircea_popescu: you know ~why~ it's kinda exciting to watch this, right ?
ascii_field: found idiocy, will describe later if anyone gives a shit
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4550 @ 0.00030068 = 1.3681 BTC [+]
davout: scoopbot_revived: totally news yo
davout doesn't quite get why ascii_field is so deep in cpanhell
mod6: did they hassle you about the meat?
davout: mod6: nope, should have brought moar back
davout: ascii_field: so you're done or you switched to something else?
ascii_field: davout: mircea_popescu had the box decrufted
ascii_field: davout: just now i took a moment to set up on that box, and ran into a few boojums
jurov: not so long ago, i have found alf a box, he declined. now he has to take whetever there is.
jurov: s.nsa is not your money
ascii_field: jurov: i don't deal in monotonic guaranteed trips to penury
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7409 @ 0.00030068 = 2.2277 BTC [-]
jurov: i invested 100BTC into s.nsa.. to see penury mentioned in relation to ordinary business expenses?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i haven't moved the domain yet
jurov: i'm at loss of words.
ascii_field: jurov: i'll refresh memory for ancient thread. mircea_popescu has it - i refuse to add recurring expenses when there is no revenue.
ascii_field: this is what 'monotonic trip to the basement' means
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: it will churn if you submit a new key or req retest of an existing key
mircea_popescu: jurov i can see it, can't go out of business by not spending.
jurov: so shut up and eat cpanel
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8697 @ 0.00029613 = 2.5754 BTC [-]
ascii_field: jurov: l0l that was last night's thing. today we have normal box. which i just finished setting up.
mircea_popescu: i'll go through the correct centos and poke fun at engineer later.
jurov: williamdunne: scoopbot_revived is not cloaked
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: dns switched over, will propagate eventually
mircea_popescu: so mebbe i dun understand something, but wasn't it going to process the however many gb archive ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: yes, as a kind of torture test. anyone should be able to do this
mircea_popescu: i imagined it's just gonna get done locally for expediency. but hey, tests are great.
jurov: i see archive.today (195.211.154.159), that's the old one?
gribble: Error: "ANSWER" is not a valid command.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6676 @ 0.00029616 = 1.9772 BTC [+]
ascii_field: 'decent registrar' is like 'decent gasenwagen'
ascii_field: existing ones are 'decent' from perspective of usg et al.
jurov: just compile namecoin into libnss.so :DDDD
mircea_popescu: ascii_field Click here (big!) << could be replaced with Click here (28588 digits) ?
mircea_popescu: ascii_field yes, its what i said above. and you're probably just caching locally.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: if you're reading the thing, you will notice there are two processes (one which actually does the work, 'werker'.)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15175 @ 0.00029562 = 4.486 BTC [-] {3}
ascii_field: next when i get a moment i'ma cook up a proper jinxed keypair
ascii_field: because the 'under construction' thing is disgraceful
mircea_popescu: i wanna see if this'll actually work practically or not for the purpose.
mircea_popescu: looks like typical bitcoind that was shut down suddenly
cazalla: been running fine for a while but now, same problems i had a few months back :\
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: some serious strange. those keys work on my local box's phuctor, identical sourceball
mircea_popescu: the internet's not a truck, where yo ucan just dump stuff you know!
ascii_field begins to drool, like the flea-bitten characters in film 'city of lost children'
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: it doesn't eat any key, lol
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: He's flipping the ball into the stands for the fans... Who aren't there because Baltimore, playing the game with an empty stadium because riots
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It truly is. Guy's probably just flipping the ball into the stands out of habit, but seriously in the middle of the day they can't have spectators because... riots?
BingoBoingo: Not actual riots, but just the fear of riots
assbot: Alana is not registered in WoT.
ascii_field: ty mircea_popescu, for a very palpably faster box.
ascii_field: considering that previously, this thing wasn't even on a computer in the usual sense - this is a major step forward.
mircea_popescu: 015-04-29 15:54 (Queued, 2 Moduli Remaining - Refresh page to update.)
mircea_popescu: listen, seeing how it's using about 10% of what it could... throtle it ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: if you read 'werker' - there is a polling knob
ascii_field: why would we want to throttle the thing, again ?
mircea_popescu: well, there's no point in it having 2 items in queue while load is under 4 ish
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the way it works is that when polling interval elapses, it does everything in the queue
ascii_field: if folks were to put a million keys through this thing each day, every time a new planet with intelligent pgp-using aliens is contacted, i would probably tweak a few things, yes.
jurov: mircea prolly noticed lightbulbs dimming every 5s
ascii_field: i also love how mircea_popescu put this box in a war zone
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4755 @ 0.00028909 = 1.3746 BTC [-]
ascii_field: gotta love those traditional wooden 'democratizers'
trinque: what is that, pepper-spray paintball?
mircea_popescu: dude that police looks just like lego characters foretold.
ascii_field: the revolver-shotgun is finally out, apparently
trinque: ascii_field: rubber rounds in pic #5?
trinque: I'm not familiar with seeing cops holding those
ascii_field: the obligatory ziptie handcuffs (last photo.)
trinque: revolver shotgun likely fires tear gas canisters
assbot: Logged on 22-02-2015 19:30:55; asciilifeform: jurov: the zip tie and the effete executioner of the future are a match made in heaven. no need to watch the victim struggle, dance. zip - next.
trinque: stylish leather strap on those beatin'-sticks
ascii_field finds these scenes extra-lulzy on account of having walked on those streets
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1000 @ 0.00180847 = 1.8085 BTC [+] {8}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 700 @ 0.0016191 = 1.1334 BTC [-]
assbot: Need a number of lines.
assbot: Need a number of lines.
assbot: Make it a positive integer.
mod6: !butt should just do like: (_8_)
mod6: or select a jpg from a random pool of hotbutts
mod6: ham slicer just waxed that thing
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 663 @ 0.0017814 = 1.1811 BTC [+] {8}
lobbes vaguely recalls some tv show from ~15 years ago depicting robot fights such as these
mircea_popescu: should be lots of fun now that silly-valley's come up with the police bot.
assbot: RC Fighting Robot Wars - Inertia XL v's Tilley's Revenge - 2013 Combat Robots UK Championships - YouTube ... (
http://bit.ly/1JTGESc )
lobbes: pete_dushenski: yes! that second one
pete_dushenski also remembers this show from childhood, watching it with brother and father.
pete_dushenski: losing my account and losing 20% of your share price just a month later? hmm, twitter, very hmm.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Stahp using javascript everywhere
pete_dushenski: anyways, ferguson remains on low boil until further notice.
pete_dushenski: "if you looks at our ads twice, we'll let you read the page once"
pete_dushenski: "or you can look at them once and fill out our survey"
pete_dushenski: "Police made at least five arrests for charges including burglary and flourishing a weapon." << flourishing! how poetic.
pete_dushenski: danielpbarron i do enjoy 'sunny'. the first 5 seasons were pretty fucking hilarious but i haven't kept up with it since then.
danielpbarron: it's one of my favorites to leave on in the background while doing other things
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11066 @ 0.00028881 = 3.196 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Anyways the Post Dispatch was the first Pulitzer owned newspaper
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo pulitzer winning ? how does a prize own a paper.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: No, as in the historical person Pulitzer.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19650 @ 0.00028754 = 5.6502 BTC [-] {2}
williamdunne: Scoop the fourth is now re-written. Will be moved to a server, rather than my laptop
williamdunne: At the moment doesn't support adding new feeds. That will come soon-ish
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8350 @ 0.00028595 = 2.3877 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Logged on 29-04-2015 14:42:28; mircea_popescu: (and yes editors, which trilema doth employ, send the corrections with "did you mean to X" half the fucking time)
pete_dushenski: i mean, a few of us here do it for fun, but surely we miss errors here and there.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9993 @ 0.00029333 = 2.9312 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 29-04-2015 10:14:00; davout: so apparently this neucoin thing sold for 2.7kBTC worth of their, ahem, "coin"
pete_dushenski: on the plus side, they only pulled in 2700 btc, most of which was surely their own
pete_dushenski: this is down markedly from a year ago, when scams could still find 10,000+ btc
cazalla: still, not a bad effort compared to some other launches
cazalla: how much did that gems messaging app raise? BingoBoingo always goes on about it for some reason
cazalla: "hey cazalla, you should get gems yo, you earn gems for messaging"
cazalla: soz for the elbowing BingoBoingo but i saw more gems news on coinfire earlier :)
pete_dushenski: just whatever you do, don't pgp up and wander in here.
pete_dushenski: because hosting nobodies on your private island is more fun!
pete_dushenski: oh look, bitgo dood, garzik, pierce, and silbert are all going.
mircea_popescu: "This post Formule de salut on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. concerning SEO provides clear thought for new SEO users that how to do Search engine optimization, therefore keep it up. Nice job
cazalla: yeah, qntra has plenty of those and other variations mircea_popescu
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 626 @ 0.00178791 = 1.1192 BTC [+] {8}