mircea_popescu: "1998-10-18 dscott@networkusa.net: "Part of the NSA job is to keep the world in the dark about real ctypto. Think about it. What better way to do it than by creating crypto preists for people to whorship."" and apparently this was well understood 18 years ago, also.
mircea_popescu: "1998-10-26 Terry Ritter: "We *never* know that a cipher is strong. Ever." "Now, we might 'consider' a cipher strong when all *our* guys have looked at it and found no break. But, quite frankly, the *other* guys have more training, more experience, more resources, more time, and they may even be smarter than our guys." "I claim it is more important to have many different ciphers than to have a few which are 'considered
mircea_popescu: strong.' Why? Because we *can't* know how strong our ciphers *really* are to the other guy. But we *can* -- guaranteed -- make The Opponent pay dearly to keep up.""
mircea_popescu: meanwhile notice that EVERYONE is on aes to the degree people are treating it like windows.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84450 @ 0.00056296 = 47.542 BTC [+] {4}
mod6: <+jurov> mod6: ben_vulpes got an email "bitcoin-foundation.info expires in 60 days" << yeah, we've got 'thebitcoin.foundation' until like 2020 iirc. we're good.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64267 @ 0.00056222 = 36.1322 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7050 @ 0.00056698 = 3.9972 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 23:53:09; mircea_popescu: uh. i had no idea sat is solved now ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11173 @ 0.00056222 = 6.2817 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108635 @ 0.00056073 = 60.9149 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 11:15:33; ben_vulpes: happy second birthday, cascadianhacker
pete_d_out: contravex turns two years old on february 22nd :)
pete_d_out: start with the small towns, then the mid-size towns, then the bigger towns ?
mircea_popescu: howly shit, a 7500 town worth 2mn, and the bribes going to mayor ~ part of a used car ?
mircea_popescu: "1998-10-29 dscott@networkusa.net: "It is obvious that mixinf three different types of ciphers would be better than Triple DES...." << well, it's CERTAINLY obvious that mixing TWO types is better than double-des
mircea_popescu: and there DOES exist such a technique as mathematical induction
mircea_popescu: in case any noobs be wondering why it even is triple-DES : doubleDES(plaintext)=plaintext.
mircea_popescu: apparently all the stuff i proposed as common sense was in point of fact common sense plainly said on public list 20 years ago.
mircea_popescu: yet somehow the decades passed for no benefit and idiots still pretend like it's never happened. outrageous.
mircea_popescu: anyway. aes and des should be excommunicated out of everything asap, there's no two ways about it.
mircea_popescu: also i should like to propose a lemma : that chaining should always proceed TOWARDS SMALLER BLOCKS
mircea_popescu: if you have ciphers A B C with block lengths lA lB lC, then the chaining should be applied in such order that l1 > l2 > l3.
mircea_popescu: 1998-10-30 Douglas A. Gwyn: "...I can exhibit the design for a block cipher that is demonstrably secure according to the rules of the game, although it wouldn't be *practical*." << you should write to him, too.
mircea_popescu: i suspect it goes deeper than that. something something entropy/and/bandwidth
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally ... what about the set of ultra np ?
mircea_popescu: man fucking schneier is intolerable. i can pick out his lines even without looking at attribution. his entire output comes out of a tiny fucking word grinder.
assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 02:49:24; asciilifeform: i actually hit garey & johnson's mega-encyclopaedia 'intractability' and dug
pete_d_out: shinohai even a few weeks early, i'll take it. cheers ;)
pete_d_out: actually working a "news" piece that i'd give to qntra but i... don't have my keys. so to contravex it goes.
mircea_popescu: expspace for instance. everyone's fixated on exponential run time
mircea_popescu: iirc all exp- are proven not in P. which is better than what is known for np.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform come to think of it : take a matrix, set it to go pieces, calculate the value of the position.
mircea_popescu: (note that "beating a human" is not equivalent to solving this. if it were...)
mircea_popescu: and take Stearns-Hartmanis, you know for a fact that all EXPs are actually NOT in P
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform go is convenient tho because so close to a matrix.
mircea_popescu: it is, in point of fact, a TERNARY NUMERIC SYSTEM MATRIX
mircea_popescu: or to get back to exponential space problems : "decide first order logic propositions with real numbers, adition and comparison" is a very hard problem.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: by which i mean, known to be harder than p. this is proven.
mircea_popescu: and know to be harder than p is a more valuable proof for our interest than known to be in np.
mircea_popescu: again and again we come to the "will need nre hardware" thing
mircea_popescu: it's not programmable quite to your taste, but it does deal in reals.
mircea_popescu: but getting back to it, the point i want made is that EXP-* inclusion beats NP inclusion.
pete_d_out: speaking of 'sensitive material', what ever came of that little dispute with your hosting co. over the sipa hit, mircea_popescu ?
shinohai: "Nigerian prince schemes" <<< lol pete_d_out
pete_d_out: or to quote dr. zhivago, 'it's more just this way'
pete_d_out: asciilifeform and chinese grad student mighta had a few hundred contacts even, but tens of thousands ??
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35417 @ 0.00056468 = 19.9993 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48898 @ 0.00056506 = 27.6303 BTC [+]
pete_d_out: asciilifeform was schutzstaffel any different ?
pete_d_out: just another example of you being born too late !
mod6 has rather enjoyed the crypto discussion in the last number of days.
TomServo: Like trimming the last entry, or checking for consecutive hours?
mod6: whacha tryin to do?
TomServo: Just looking at avg blocks per hour on a syncing node
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 13:16:19; asciilifeform: nah thats what ipnohe is for
pete_d_out: i toyed with the idea of dumbphone mebbe
pete_d_out: asciilifeform you're a bit of a masochist of nothing else.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10798 @ 0.00056505 = 6.1014 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 116450 @ 0.00056725 = 66.0563 BTC [+] {2}
phf: well, that's not a reason i use mine. i spend so much time on technology, i require explicit and often prolonged periods of disconnect to stay healthy
pete_d_out: standing there or sitting there, hunched over with the stupid i-thing 12" in front of your face because it's 'convenient' instead of walking over to desktop or laptop or god forbid waiting until you get home. ~that's~ the killer.
kakobrekla: pete_d_out how about some prehistoric nokia
nubbins`: as a lord of bitcoin, tmsr~, cognizant of the responsibilities that my words thusly carry, i hereby solemnly rebuke any attempt to strip me of my lordship.
☟︎ shinohai: "Damn, we're 1 brick short of finishing this house" "I have a Nokia!"
nubbins`: speak now if you believe a lord that has contributed TRB patches, who owns the second-largest s.mg stock warrant, who trades in the only physical collectibles that are priced solely in BTC, who pays the bill for eulora.org, who is the republic's de facto minister of letters awaiting with bated quill the whittling-down of a codebase fit to publish, should be stripped of his title; speak your treason now, that all may witness it.
☟︎☟︎ kakobrekla: im sure something like nokia 3210 still works here just fine
nubbins`: lords care not whether their presence "confuses the noobs"; such reasoning is unfit for discourse
pete_d_out: asciilifeform i walk or cycle 4/7 days per week. 'saddam' sits in heated parkade. blessedly for both and neither of our constitutions could bear more roadtime.
phf: i thought cars are typically books-on-tape territory
☟︎ pete_d_out: kakobrekla razr isn't a great hammer, admittedly
phf: could be speaking french and iranian by now
pete_d_out isn't caught up on logs, isn't sure what nubbins` is referring to.
nubbins`: don't worry pete, just keep linking trilema on your blog
assbot: Amazon.com: Samsung GT-E1182L E1182 DUOS Unlocked Quad-Band Dual SIM GSM Phone with Dual SIM Standby Support, FM Radio and Organizer - US Warranty - Silver: Cell Phones & Accessories ... (
http://bit.ly/1V2mj36 )
phf: biggest issue with razr, screen guaranteed to crack if you sit down with it in back pocket
kakobrekla: i havent heard nothing but 'it stopped working' from the owners if memory serves
nubbins`: even a wallet -- your cards will all crack in half
phf: i like to freeclimb abandoned buildings when i'm drunk, i have very specific requirements for my cellphones. i've destroyed 4 iphones so far, unfixable mechanical damage
kakobrekla: i dont know but if i cant hammer nails with it its not a phone for me
kakobrekla: i mean wtf now i have to take care of it!?
kakobrekla: first day i got my last phone it fell about 5 meters to concrete floor
kakobrekla: put the battery back in still works to this very day
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 13:52:37; mircea_popescu: anyway, the winds have pointedly turned against apple. the time when they did that "we'll brick your device if you used other parts in it" thing i'd arbitrarily pick as the jumping the shark moment. but in any case : apple is for the next decade a company to sell, not to hold and CERTAINLY not to buy.
kakobrekla: if it was an 'iphone' it be broken to 100 pieces
kakobrekla: tank should be able to take a beating. so should phones.
nubbins`: you can use 100% "other parts" if you like.
kakobrekla: relatedly kindle wont boot with unofficial battery afaik
kakobrekla: my tp charges just fine as long as the voltage is right
assbot: US intelligence chief: we might use the internet of things to spy on you | Technology | The Guardian ... (
http://bit.ly/1V2nIGX )
pete_d_out: i'm sure that'll work a solid 2/3 times.
pete_d_out: unfortunately, 1/3 'recruits' looking for every possible way to bring down their 'employer' is a lot of angry worker bees stinging anywhere and everywhere
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 14:09:06; ben_vulpes: doesn't that get you on some kind of vile criminal list in canada?
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 14:10:08; mircea_popescu: i never expected him to not show up under his PROFESSIONAL names...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78650 @ 0.00056769 = 44.6488 BTC [+]
shinohai: And with that I am off to the loving arms of my Mistress for the night. Ciao!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15900 @ 0.00056769 = 9.0263 BTC [+]
mod6: mircea_popescu: thebitcoin.foundation/src redirect has been put into place.
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76200 @ 0.00056778 = 43.2648 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 16:34:59; asciilifeform: where? antarctica ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27352 @ 0.00056571 = 15.4733 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 16:48:44; ben_vulpes: i am now renaming my cock to CSCL Indian Ocean
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 18:52:19; ascii_shmoocon: mircea_popescu: 2 'trans' for every biochik
mod6: barring any sort of major problems, as long as this one tests well, will bundle it up in a week or so. have at it!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32323 @ 0.00056427 = 18.2389 BTC [-] {2}
pete_d_out: asciilifeform y'know, you could've, like, asked the 'transies'
pete_d_out: "excuse me, miss, er, sir, er... anyways, so what do you do for work ?"
pete_d_out: asciilifeform because people talk to each other !!!1
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94878 @ 0.00057111 = 54.1858 BTC [+] {4}
pete_d_out: eg. whether your theory of "no gurl programmers except chetty" has any basis in reality
pete_d_out: and not so strictly rationed Theories About Reality Pointz, apparently
pete_d_out: asciilifeform mno. "where are they ? antartica ?" is a theory. if a tongue-in-cheek one
pete_d_out: mod6 nice work on v99995 ! quite a few changes in there. my v99996 test has had a few bumps in the road (mostly hosting issues afaict) but is still syncing. i'll let you know if there are any snags in that, but holleee you guys are pumping out these trb releases !!
pete_d_out: right you are. i misspoke then, should be 'trb iterations'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: pete_d_out: for what did you think. << facebook games !!!
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 02:16:23; asciilifeform: didja also toy with idea of chewing rusty nails ?
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 02:24:07; nubbins`: as a lord of bitcoin, tmsr~, cognizant of the responsibilities that my words thusly carry, i hereby solemnly rebuke any attempt to strip me of my lordship.
mircea_popescu: i guess if the man wants it... that oughta count for something huh.
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 02:25:41; phf: i thought cars are typically books-on-tape territory
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 02:29:56; asciilifeform: i've never in my whole life used a back pocket.
mircea_popescu: in all the people who can't understand why they keep getting women pregnant
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 02:30:22; asciilifeform: anything therein will either be destroyed or worm its way up your arse
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 02:33:30; kakobrekla: its like youd need to 'take care' of a tank.
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 02:35:48; asciilifeform: what did apple brick 'if you used other parts in it'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 119797 @ 0.00056733 = 67.9644 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 03:09:53; mod6: mircea_popescu: thebitcoin.foundation/src redirect has been put into place.
pete_d_out: on the topic of the lordship list, can someone please tell me what 'fief' mats is fighting for ? pogo distribution ? pgp server thing he started then quit ? other things ? i'm genuinely curious. he doesn't contribute ~that~ much to the debates here that i can see, though he's certainly not invisible, but most of what i glean from his commentary is along the lines of "windows isn't so bad u guise", which, i guess, is what it is. anyways,
pete_d_out: i'd like to sumbit that mats be removed from the lordship list on the upcoming go-around. tis but a humble proposal to my fellow lords.
mircea_popescu: right. WERE. back in the day when nobody had to be told to use original parts.
mircea_popescu: the way dead corps go, fences go up after the horses leave.
pete_d_out: he did do some solid homework there, i concede.
hanbot: pete_d_out you sumbitting proposals from an alt?
pete_d_out: hanbot you can tell i don't do this often eh
pete_d_out: in light of the obvious circumstances, i hereby retract my non-existent proposal. signed, nobody.
pete_d_out: i'm more tired that i realised. i'm sending this alt to bed as the 4am crying-feeding is coming all too soon. ciao amigos !
mats: that's not how that story went
nubbins`: afaik pete only wrote a blog where he regurgitated mp themes
nubbins`: yeah, bitcoin pete is not on my reading list
nubbins`: s.nsa january statement is on my reading list, but...
assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 17:51:57; mircea_popescu: so for everyone watching : s.nsa will be doing double month report next month ; s.mpoe will be filing later today.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37100 @ 0.00056584 = 20.9927 BTC [-]
nubbins`: is this implying an absence of operational activity?
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 18:05:28; asciilifeform: but it is also impossible ~with~ a wot, unless you are mircea_popescu and are in commerce with another mircea_popescu .
mats: and in fact this has been my primary interest in being in this wot in the first place. since the beginning.
mats: slaving over an idapython plugin for windbg because existing ones are shit
mats: overall progress is pretty slow. i would benefit from a mentor, but none of the greybeards i know, have time for me
mats: and the public idapython plugins seemed more feature complete, so i went from there
mats: also, i was encouraged to do that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12767 @ 0.00056584 = 7.2241 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61608 @ 0.00056452 = 34.7789 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21088 @ 0.00056498 = 11.9143 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41325 @ 0.00056498 = 23.3478 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 18:54:06; mircea_popescu: hmm looks like qntra ate my comment
mircea_popescu: there is no reason to have multiple banks in soviet russia.
mircea_popescu: which is what happened : the fed owns all of them anyway.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95922 @ 0.00056723 = 54.4098 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: In other news, Cruz/Trump/Rubio's odds are all levelling out on BitBet after fucking Kasich won 2nd to Trump in NH. I blame that disloyal hamplanet Chris Christie.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85950 @ 0.00055973 = 48.1088 BTC [-] {4}
BingoBoingo: On the other side Sanders beat Clitler 13 delegates to 9
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58200 @ 0.00056099 = 32.6496 BTC [+] {4}
BingoBoingo: In further developments, Cruz has now jumped Rubio as the new BitBet favorite.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34875 @ 0.00056928 = 19.8536 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57700 @ 0.00056141 = 32.3934 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15650 @ 0.00056379 = 8.8233 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18600 @ 0.00056379 = 10.4865 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19106 @ 0.00056379 = 10.7718 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68500 @ 0.00056379 = 38.6196 BTC [+]
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 377.5, vol: 5705.40195699 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 381.88, vol: 5740.47168 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 378.14, vol: 13050.93419762 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 378.0, vol: 0.27294365 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 389.45205, vol: 18178.66740000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 378.0, vol: 1167.00217383 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 381.63624, vol: 80.41276963 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
gribble: Bitstamp BTCJPY last: 43270.9375, vol: 5705.40195699 | BTC-E BTCJPY last: 43774.255875, vol: 5740.47168 | CampBX BTCJPY last: 43328.25, vol: 0.27294365 | BTCChina BTCJPY last: 44652.5716, vol: 18185.49820000 | Kraken BTCJPY last: 43427.931, vol: 173.34285269 | Bitcoin-Central BTCJPY last: 43725.7692, vol: 80.41276963 | Volume-weighted last average: 44210.4863285
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59150 @ 0.00056535 = 33.4405 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20250 @ 0.00056639 = 11.4694 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61822 @ 0.00056639 = 35.0154 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22078 @ 0.00057024 = 12.5898 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77700 @ 0.00057203 = 44.4467 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73675 @ 0.00056471 = 41.605 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19479 @ 0.00056471 = 11 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31400 @ 0.00056379 = 17.703 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90081 @ 0.00056358 = 50.7678 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86839 @ 0.00056315 = 48.9034 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36858 @ 0.00056033 = 20.6526 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 106691 @ 0.00055973 = 59.7182 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 169756 @ 0.00057096 = 96.9239 BTC [+] {7}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86150 @ 0.00056053 = 48.2897 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9550 @ 0.00056053 = 5.3531 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71023 @ 0.00057252 = 40.6621 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Logged on 27-01-2016 00:06:01; ascii_butugychag: i thought adlai ~had~ a trade - tank mechanic
adlai: kakobrekla: you'd be surprised how easily the entire thing pops right off, like those rubber treads on toys
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42312 @ 0.00056225 = 23.7899 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14588 @ 0.00055888 = 8.1529 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: adlai: How else does General Dynamics get the parts contracts?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104800 @ 0.00057465 = 60.2233 BTC [+] {4}
adlai: heh that'd be good for some hand-wringing: planned obsolescence in military equipment. expiration date reached? cardano broadcasts private key!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107800 @ 0.00057632 = 62.1273 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: Compare and contrase Humvee and Toyota/Nissan truck maintenance
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla no, like take off the fucking threads and grease the stupid small wheel bs
kakobrekla: adlai, mircea_popescu , can you sit on it ?
mircea_popescu: a tank does 10 gallons to the mile as opposed to a truck's 10 miles to the gallon. the maintenance involved is comensurate.
mircea_popescu: adlai i haven't, but i had people do it, and felt sorry for them.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla sit on what, the tank ? sort-of. the modern shits are obnoxious. historically yes
adlai: mircea_popescu: i hope you didn't let that feeling show!
kakobrekla: yes, sit on the tank. great, i can sit on my phone also.
☟︎ mircea_popescu reads the log, sees the people have basically said what he was going to say anyway, realises that he is rapidly becoming superfluous
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73500 @ 0.00057102 = 41.97 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21130 @ 0.00057758 = 12.2043 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6070 @ 0.00057819 = 3.5096 BTC [+]
adlai: BingoBoingo: passive-aggressive fat shaming
BingoBoingo: adlai: Sad thing. Actually Ad composed in the same way jokes are.
shinohai: ;;later tell mod6 successfully patched V per ML instructions, now v99995
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 111600 @ 0.00057825 = 64.5327 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: selbst moralisten und moral sind unmoralisch manches mal!
mircea_popescu: fucking EXACT opposite of contemporary anglo retardation, incidentally.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15336 @ 0.00057102 = 8.7572 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53900 @ 0.0005695 = 30.6961 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: fucking thing had virtually no suspensions, manual inertial starter, fucking wooden seats if memory serves...
mircea_popescu: no living wage fucktard loved his honda civic like this tank was loved.
mircea_popescu: you wanna complain about being stguck in traffic, how about being stuck in fucking rasputitza.
adlai: significantly less traumatic.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> nah thats american cars << Only after 2005 model year. Previously there was a scrotum loop to take some weight off of anal hook.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49079 @ 0.0005695 = 27.9505 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "OK: consider a city full of Chinese people, rigorously following written
mircea_popescu: instructions on the handling of small (8-byte, to be concrete) amounts of
mircea_popescu: information in particular systematic ways. (Yes, a group of individuals
mircea_popescu: running round with an internal monologue which if dragged first from
mircea_popescu: mentalese to Cantonese and thus to English might be rendered as "I'm an
mircea_popescu: S-box! I'm an S-box!", "I'm an transposer! I'm a transposer!", and the like.)
mircea_popescu: They pass the outputs of their rule-following to designated, possibly
mircea_popescu: conditionally-different, individuals. Such a small city can compute DES
mircea_popescu: encryptions/decryptions without a semiconductor in sight.
mircea_popescu: And that estimable Mr Searle will explain why each of them must be shot
mircea_popescu: after performing their role more than a few times, as they now understand
mircea_popescu: not only block cipher design but the content of the encrypted message :-)
mircea_popescu: 1998-10-26 Terry Ritter: "I would hope that anyone reading Schneier's article would recognize that it is seriously flawed in many ways."
mircea_popescu: 1998-10-27 Kery Minola: "You are really grasping at straws...."
mircea_popescu: 1998-10-27 Xcott Craver: "!!! It's obvious that the memo did not mean 'prove' in the strict mathematical sense, but in the empirical sense."
mircea_popescu: 1998-10-27 Douglas A. Gwyn: "The 'empirical proof' means very little since it can't allow for the eavesdropper's cryptanalytic abilities."
mircea_popescu: 1998-10-27 Xcott Craver: "Are you suggesting that we should use something other than the scientific method?"
mircea_popescu: 1998-10-27 W T Shaw: "To demand a single route to the truth is to prejudice against truths that may not be so conform to that path. This is the essence of what is wrong with what Bruce advocates, which is the same old tired argument we have heard for ages."
mircea_popescu: basicallty, the debate between accountants and scholars, started long ago, will continue forever.
mircea_popescu: 1998-10-28 dscott@networkusa.net: "ACtually if you come up with a good cipher you will not get it tested since they try to keep the rank of phony experts quite small." lol.
mircea_popescu: 1998-11-23 Stefan Axelsson: "What is needed, is some other, resilient, long lasting, redundant third party storage of references, such as a library is for printed material today."
☟︎ mircea_popescu: funny how this entire fucking discussion is about how everyone there would really need want and desperately aspires to be in #b-a.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: #b-a so schneier and the rest of the usg-powered nobodies get the swanson treatment ; #b-a so there's deedbot ; #b-a so everything in there comes back to it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7984 @ 0.00057853 = 4.619 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12907 @ 0.00057119 = 7.3723 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4794 @ 0.0005773 = 2.7676 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37600 @ 0.0005773 = 21.7065 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17797 @ 0.00057066 = 10.156 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 14:21:31; mircea_popescu: funny how this entire fucking discussion is about how everyone there would really need want and desperately aspires to be in #b-a.
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 14:27:29; mircea_popescu: anyway, shot ritter an email, curious what comes of this.
mircea_popescu feels more and more each day roughly in the position of the guy in that one tribe that successfully unearthed pre-war tech.
mircea_popescu: oh, there are other tribes out there, you say ? and they have quick horses and long-lashed women, you say ? BWAHAHAHAHAA
mod6: <shinohai> successfully patched V per ML instructions, now v99995 << cool! beat up on it, let me know if you find any probs.
shinohai: Because if I am useful for nothing else around here it is breaking things.
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mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> what tech? rsa ? << naw. the whole shebang.
mircea_popescu: Islamists opposed the law because "neither elected MPs nor the government has the authority to change the law because these institutions could misinterpret the word of God". <<< check it out alf, the orcs get it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35150 @ 0.00057842 = 20.3315 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: besides the point. the principle is still sound : there is no font of legitimacy in democracy. elected derps have no authority to change the law.
mircea_popescu: i had no intention of fucking him anyway. unless he were to hire my as his hygienist, which is not something i do anyway, it;s really not my concern.
mircea_popescu: what appeal ? there's no appeal. they just happen to have a point.
mircea_popescu: kalash fires as well if triggered pulled by monkey as by man.
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mod6: any one have any strong feelings on googletest & googlemock as a comprehensive testing framework for trb ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't understand this, so flint been using lead pipes like... all places ever. what is the issue ?
mod6: well, i built some automated tests in cucumber/perl for V. but i'm saying for bitcoind itself.
mod6: and it has a mock framework that can be utilized as well, and this could be really powerful.
mircea_popescu: or anyway, try and explain as best as possible the externalities here ?
mod6: i might have to go on a wild goose chase with this some time, post release when I have more time.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform doh. tax is set by the cattle ability to pay, nothing else. same tax is collected in new york and bahrein or w/e.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform part of the democratic lie. that "tax is payment" , that "law is agreement", that "authority is legitimate" etc.
mod6: anyway, boost has its own unit testing abilities, which is what the current test are built with -- the allure of a mock framework here though, could be helpful.
mircea_popescu: mod6 i will confes i am prejudiced against it just for having google in its name.
mircea_popescu: which is probably the contrary result to what they intended.
mod6: what if there was a different mock framework that wasn't
mircea_popescu: mod6 understand, i'm not going to necessarily act on my prejudices. just being upfront.
mod6: anyway, this is all food for thought; planting a seed. we'll have to revisit this later.
mircea_popescu: In addition to many internal projects at Google, Google Test is also used by the following notable projects: The Chromium projects (behind the Chrome browser and Chrome OS). The LLVM compiler. Protocol Buffers, Google's data interchange format. The OpenCV computer vision library.
mircea_popescu: so basically, it IS definitionally better than the boost suite.
mircea_popescu: "Linux Requirements These are the base requirements to build and use Google Test from a source package (as described below):
mircea_popescu: GNU-compatible Make or gmake POSIX-standard shell POSIX(-2) Regular Expressions (regex.h) A C++98-standard-compliant compiler"
mod6: we were just discussing it re eulora.
mod6: i wasn't too clued on C++ testing frameworks. but mockito is pretty helpful with stuff, so something similar in C++ space would be nice.
mod6: so to that point, it is nice to run a regression suite when any changes are made.
mircea_popescu: mod6 the principle is sound. i have nfi as to the choice, but the principle is sound.
mod6: ok, thanks to you both. sorry for the diversion here, we can discuss in the future.
mircea_popescu: you can not know what can be tested meaningfully until after you have done so.
mircea_popescu: the problem is "meaningfully" is a very slippery term. shit can be quite meaningful to humans.
assbot: GitHub - evolutional/utest: An ultra-lightweight, micro unit test framework for C99 presented as a single-header ... (
http://bit.ly/1Sgi6eb )
mircea_popescu: i suspect it's actually better to pick a one thing and get everyone to use that.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, I asked mod6 if he knew of some good testing tools for cpp as I am not up to date with the landscape on that for cpp
mod6: diana_coman had one in mind that was super lightweight, looked ok for doing assertions.
mod6: just started diving into what's out there for C++ that has a bit more meat to it.
mod6: i think i'll have to drive out a poc of one of these frameworks at some point. not now though, too much other stuff to get done first.
mircea_popescu: having a trb-test suite is a good move, because even if dissidence is a b-a tradition, nevertheless it allows a common basis to make communication useful.
diana_coman: fwiw the google thing looked all right to me re features, but I wasn't too sure re who made it, lol
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, but this is not a counterarghumnet, on the contrary. testing suite may help there too.
mod6: the adventure must begin somewhere :]
mircea_popescu: ahahaha these fuctards. moved water intake from lake to river with no further precautions, on old lead lines! HOLY SHIT. there is extant roman text as to the idiocy of this move.
mircea_popescu: this is utterly what the dawn of civilisaiton looks like. next, nobody could have predicted pissing on the electric fence.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is actually not something that can be done anymore i fear. mining criteria changed ~3 times
mircea_popescu: "A class-action lawsuit alleges the state Department of Environmental Quality didn't treat the water for corrosion, in accordance with federal law, and because so many service lines to Flint are made of lead, the noxious element leached into the water of the city's homes."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform everything can still be done. the poiint is that a hole large enough to fit the earlier blocks will result in a hole too large today, that'd admit things that won't get mined.
mircea_popescu: the fact that they were mined in the past is no guarantee they would be mined today
mircea_popescu: "It isn't easy to build a large general-purpose quantum computer, but many people publicly working on it seem to think that they'll be successful next decade. Maybe there will be serious obstacles that slow down or stop this success, but there's clearly a serious risk to RSA and ECC, and it isn't sensible risk management to pretend that the problem doesn't exist."
mircea_popescu: fucking bullshit omfg. i am not PRETENDING the problem doesn't exist. the problem does factually not exist.
mircea_popescu: MIT idiots were going to be successful next decade every decade since 1950. then "winter" "happened" because totally.
mircea_popescu: and they'll have the unmitigated audacity to call it "the quantum winter" as opposed to "the just desserts after a decade of fraudulent pseudoscientific claims" and/or "what happens when ponzi schemes deflate"
mircea_popescu: i expect there's going to be a "climatology winter" too starting next year, as opposed to "we lied for pay and after that the employer had no further use of lying pseudoscientists".
mircea_popescu: "Lattice-based cryptography is another important candidate for post-quantum public-key cryptography, and is the main topic of this blog post. The main practical reason to consider lattice-based encryption rather than code-based encryption is that lattice-based systems advertise much smaller public keys." << WRONG.
mircea_popescu: small public key = you lose. small block = you lose. quickly computable = you lose.
mircea_popescu: get with the motherfucking program, bunch of snake oil salesmen.
mircea_popescu: neither fervor nor bayonet. "people", if you can call english speakers that, will industrialize as they do : out of pompous laziness. that's how it always goes.
mircea_popescu: what color lipstick you put on that pig - vanitas vanitatum.
mircea_popescu: industrialization is driven on the backs of starving slave/iobagi, and deindustrialization is driven by lazy, entitled idiots.
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mircea_popescu: exact equivalent of the anabolic/catabolic processes in the human body. if there aren't people falling over in the street out of sheer hunger as an unremarkable phenomenon, there's no industrialization afoot. if there aren't any "self-betterment" dudes moving about, there's no dezindustrialization occurring.
mircea_popescu: re other thread : the only point of interest in lattice stuff would be homomorphisms. which don't work yet.
mircea_popescu: well kinda what i mean by doesn't work : "works for some values of work"
mircea_popescu: if i meant does not work at all i would make no mention whatever.
mircea_popescu: even going under that : afaik not yet usable in crypto
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform things may cost you nothing, that is your privilege. things always cost me something, because of my peculiar relationship with the fucking future.
mircea_popescu: alowing the possibility that this scam is actually worth taking seriously costs the people who follow what i say whatever it may cost them.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: the two are much closelier related than people generally wish to accept.
mircea_popescu: yes. always large block to small ; always few to many options.
mircea_popescu: (this reduces to what the idiots do with their s boxes incidentally)
mircea_popescu: so as you can no doubt follow, asciilifeform from the political considerations discussed it follows that while i don't allow for the possibility of "quantum computer", i don't disallow your implementing a scheme which would be deemed (by idiots) as "quantum resistant".
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39000 @ 0.00057286 = 22.3415 BTC [+]
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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15600 @ 0.00056964 = 8.8864 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "Since most conventional block ciphers are in fact product ciphers, they testify to the worth of multiple encryption, even with weak internal ciphering functions."
mircea_popescu: i for instance had never read it / wouldn't care to now.
mircea_popescu: there are some schemes which, if the result is split, lose strength
mircea_popescu: similarly with the key. so large key can't be sent over the wire. bwahahahaha mkay.
mircea_popescu: (for the future, the ~ONLY way to get a key would be to ask trusted third party for it. such as hey x you know y ? send me his key!)
mircea_popescu: merely, that the "key over the wire in the jungle" aspect need not be accounted for.
mircea_popescu: getting rid of one of the most idiotic constraints people-who-are-not-me put on cipher design
mircea_popescu: quite. now 1mb IS probably too large to be useful (unless actual mathematical need/benefit for it is shown)
mircea_popescu: so i have to leave pc overnight / rng on for ten minutes to make a key ? big whoop, i make a key a year if that, and i'm an intensive user.
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mircea_popescu looks forward to a time when say berman's is a fundamental theorem in crypto
jurov: not sure it's even a crypto invention. noisy channel theory says basically the same (think channel with 50% bit flip noise)
mircea_popescu: jurov doesn't have to be invented in crypto to be fundamental for crypto
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mircea_popescu: basically showing that a+b < c is true or false for a, b, c in R is a harder-than-NP problem.
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 351600 @ 0.00058022 = 204.0054 BTC [+] {5}
mircea_popescu: anyway, get his guy stuff from library, if can't be web'd (i spent a little trying to dig that one up).
mircea_popescu: did a lot of work on an interesting if oft neglected part of hardness / pressburger arithmetic etc.
mircea_popescu: (unlike peano, presburger is actually decidable. but it has no multiplication.
mircea_popescu: however - that decidability has a cost, and the cost is > exponential.
mircea_popescu: as a curio - this was a very promising field just about the time of mit ai being a very promising field
mircea_popescu: just like it - ALSO disappeared with virtually no trace.
mircea_popescu: the why and wherefore be left for students from the future.
mircea_popescu: actually : the cost is shown to be double-exponential. fischer & rabin 1974.
mircea_popescu: i originally gave it as an example to stand pro toto for a larger set. specifically - that hunting the p = np thing is a waste of time, when there are in point of fact items known to be harder than np.
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mircea_popescu: but yes, expect all such items to be buried in well - curated burial pits.
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mircea_popescu: in the same way, we also go to bed with the empress-consort of china every night.
mircea_popescu: iirc, eu was spending some decent money on a derivative to evaluate safety of embedded systems
mircea_popescu:
http://www.cesarproject.eu/ there we go. "To maintain the European leading edge position in the transportation as well as automation market, CESAR aims to boost cost efficiency of embedded systems development and safety and certification processes by an order of magnitude."
mircea_popescu: "a contest of which nothing is known but the name", i guess.
assbot: Crypto competitions:CAESAR: Competition for Authenticated Encryption: Security, Applicability, and Robustness ... (
http://bit.ly/1Qs1LNv )
mircea_popescu: M18, 2015.09.28–29: DIAC 2015: Directions in Authenticated Ciphers 2015. Singapore.
mircea_popescu: There is an extensive, and apparently never-ending, literature on "lightweight identification protocols" such as HB, HB+, HB++, HB-MP, HB*, Trusted-HB, and HBsharp. Each of these protocols was broken within one year of being proposed. Note that any authenticated cipher can trivially be used for identification: the challenger sends a random message; the prover sends back the same message, authenticated.
mircea_popescu: i guess someone should make a three-mosfet hash function. just spit out the 1/f pink.
mircea_popescu: "hashing - works ; reproducibility - not yet. BUT IT IS UNBREAKABLE!"
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mircea_popescu: but yes. however, unfortunately for them, this is a very hard problem.
mircea_popescu: that's actually a very close solution. about as good as it gets in terms of your dream "sunken bubbles in the ocean"
mircea_popescu: costs more to cut the tyre and replace or make a replacement than it costs to let it be.
shinohai: copypaste: was very much a tl;dr
mircea_popescu: i suppose once people get serious about it, it could be made to cost less than the tyre.
mircea_popescu: "I understand a business has to make money. 8chan needs to make money to survive, but making money and being open source is not mutually exclusive. Lots of sites do it, including reddit, one of the biggest sites on the Internet today."
mircea_popescu: "emperor palpatine" and "reddit, one of the blabla". 1) reddit is shit ; 2) reddit never made any fucking money.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi what they're drinking, but there's this cloud of pointedly useless 20somethings floating around in this lalaland of delusional thinking the likes of which has not been seen ever since the turks wore the byzantine "aristocratic" kids as cock decorations five centuries ago.
mircea_popescu: reddit makes money and is important, star wars is an acceptable font of comparisons, "exaggeration" in the sense of cracked.com retardation is an acceptable stylistic maneuver, and the list just goes on and on.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no dude. 20yo in '93 was fucking afraid of getting a beatdown.
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mircea_popescu: these delusioanl urchins are so used to seeing themselves as a sort of neo-in-matrix that it just doesn't compute.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: to my eyes, sept 93 looks like the flu as compared to this bubonic leprosy varicella.
mircea_popescu: but this is important! these shitheads are ENTIRELY self referential now.
mircea_popescu: i think as the collapse advances, i will be very hard pressed to resist the temptation to take a trip over to sf and just serb the fucking place.
mircea_popescu: go door to door, beat all males to death, rape all females, load them up in trucks and ship them to fucking bahrein. what the everliving fuck, these people should not live.
mircea_popescu: i had no idea genocide could be so intellectually appealing.
mircea_popescu: but hey, "i guess now you know how the ''syrian refugees'' feel".
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11833 @ 0.00056705 = 6.7099 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: i think it's a lot more like "look, befouled real estate"
mircea_popescu: "copper sulphate and planks with nails, clean this shit out"
mircea_popescu: the cleaners are how you even have the word algorithm.
mircea_popescu: well i guess this point shall be verified in practice huh.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 278116 @ 0.00057474 = 159.8444 BTC [+] {6}
mircea_popescu: but as best i can discern, any sort of "resistance movement" would be in the sense of "we'll do the raping and pillaging ourselves, who are these foreign derps" rather than "we'll defend the shithole".
mircea_popescu: so only very technically a "resistance", more like a first-to-kick-the-loser competition.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74587 @ 0.00055972 = 41.7478 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74450 @ 0.00056044 = 41.7248 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 128289 @ 0.00055761 = 71.5352 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20100 @ 0.00055441 = 11.1436 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103518 @ 0.00056368 = 58.351 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24282 @ 0.00057174 = 13.883 BTC [+]
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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16952 @ 0.0005716 = 9.6898 BTC [+]
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shinohai: What's Roger Ver doing on bitcointalk anyway since he built his own forum to be a beacon of free speech?
mircea_popescu recalls the lulzier years in 2011-2012 back when roger ver was actually pretending to be like, a business man, and stuff.
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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 286608 @ 0.00055835 = 160.0276 BTC [-] {5}