mircea_popescu: Framedragger you're going towards the republican dns / unified name registry thing
☟︎ mod6: good! it warmed back up and we had a thunderstorm lastnight. crazy.
mod6: just workin on these v changes
mod6: lol, that kid in the background is really happy to be there.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-26 20:22 mircea_popescu: incidentally, patches currently can be arbitrarily renamed with no visible effects is it ?
a111: Logged on 2016-12-25 21:49 ben_vulpes: it is a small but worth-noting difference between "put yer patches in this here directory, your signatures in this other, and your pubkeys in this third".
ben_vulpes: have we done "sha512sum will not omit filenames from output" yet?
☟︎ ben_vulpes: well i can't seem to get it to and now we have
a111: Logged on 2016-11-23 16:18 asciilifeform: global indices of 'memorable' names, or 'safely' shortened rsa pubkeys, are promisetronic.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 04:47 ben_vulpes: have we done "sha512sum will not omit filenames from output" yet?
ben_vulpes: in oooother lols, at least bing puts trilema on the first page of results when i search by article title
ben_vulpes: at this rate the kids will actually stop using google, as it doesn't show porn, point them towards pirated content or you know actually work at all anymore
mircea_popescu: !~google Slavery : the best thing for you. No, seriously.
ben_vulpes: !~google the problem of too much money
ben_vulpes: i feel a great disturbance in the force, as though a thousand seo experts were suddenly rousted from sweet slumber
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> if it got retracted -- print retraction. << Twas a dupe
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i r guess in some cases trilema titles are too trite.
Framedragger: it seems that tor main folx were banned from presenting at CCC this year (it's tradition that they normally do it every year), allegedly due to the appelbaum debacle..
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 01:44 mircea_popescu: Framedragger you're going towards the republican dns / unified name registry thing
mircea_popescu: hardly competing. just because item b depending on item a for part of its job may end up having to implement a doesn't mean b competes with a.
mircea_popescu: i suppose in a forgotten sense this is actually what "competing" means ; walk is "leg competitive" in the sense that the movement of one drags/forces/impels the movement of the other ; tissue growth is competitive in the sense that conjunctive growth drives medular growth and medular growth drives conjunctive growth ; the very chinese (these days) "barracks area B planted roses, can we from barracks area C allow ourselves to
mircea_popescu: fall behind them" version of mutual driving would historically be what competition meant. this mutual-inhibition style of competition where "we all try kissing girls when we're 7, then those who don't manage having been outcompeted by those who did manage retire to kiss playstations" is novel.
mircea_popescu: hence why it's even fucking called "competition", from latin for "to strive together", competere. same com as in commune.
mircea_popescu: o wow look at this, etymolone.com has it! "Rare 17c., revived from late 18c. in sense "to strive (alongside another) for the attainment of something" and regarded early 19c. in Britain as a Scottish or American word. Market sense is from 1840s (perhaps a back-formation from competition); athletics sense attested by 1857." is exactly correct for once.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes which one is a "modal" ? "carousel" is that stupid shit when pics keep scrolling like a 2.0 version of <marquee> right
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: noted, re. notion of 'competition'.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, i've had trilema changed so that it publishes a "random" header each day out of my apparently extensive collection of 32! different ones.
mircea_popescu: works on the basis of decimal(hash(date string)) mod banner count.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i think it's poetic, like a month that keeps increasing in day count as i add more pictures. a sort of bizarre astronomy of a planet that slowly distances itself from the sun thereby decelerating and thereby more and more earth days are needed to complete its monthly cycle.
mircea_popescu: currently, trilema month stands at 32 days, and there's 11.40 of them / year
Framedragger: IV length unchecked when allocating memory for IV, amazing.......
mircea_popescu: when in the blink of an eye you suddenly know it's fucked
mircea_popescu: why does "Apparently this issue is fixed on pycrypto's development branch with commit 8dbe0dc3eea5c689d4f76b37b93fe216cf1f00d4, but this change can't be applied directly to the latest pycrypto release tarball; too much has changed." not read "we should have fucking written it all in v last year" is anyone's guess.
Framedragger: there are some reasons for it i suppose? avoid timing side channels etc
Framedragger: (branch prediction side channels etc, dunno how feasible in the context of application using pycrypto..)
☟︎ Framedragger: aha, but you assume that python timers are anything but inaccurate :p (but yesyes..)
mircea_popescu: nobody fucking wants to REPLACE anything. they're just building an open society where everything can live side by side blind to any considerations of identity or heritage.
mircea_popescu: OF COURSE there's going to be c code in python, what, are you racist ?
mircea_popescu: incidentally, there must also be a "timing" attack that relies not on time but on properties of integers. and no i don't mean birthday attack - if your hashing is an arithmetic process then necessarily the fundamental fact that "primes count is log integers count" in some sort of restatement is going to bite you somewhere.
mircea_popescu: at least in my head this is the deep reason alf's hatred of arithmetic transfgorms makes sense to me.
mircea_popescu: (and no, the above truth isn't "about primes" anymore than the golden section is "about a4 paper".)
BingoBoingo: Redirect never took, post restored with text in <blockquote> tags
mircea_popescu: hm pretty sure there must be an option for redirects somewhere.
Framedragger: there's a wp plugin but maybe policy against such works of satan
BingoBoingo: Plugins that demand access to htaccess are a no-no
BingoBoingo: but otherwise wordpress fights redirect and drops 404 page
Framedragger: i don't know if redirection plugin does that. if you mean that a plugin would add a new line to htaccess then yeah that's retarded. don't think that's how it works
BingoBoingo: Framedragger: You would be amazed what plugins want.
phf:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1590973 << hah, pycrypto is ~all~ c. python has this ffi mechanism, where import can work on an .so and there are standard hooks for registering/providing python object equivalents from your c code. in this case i don't think there's a single python line in pycrypto at all
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 15:19 asciilifeform: why the livingfuck is there even c in 'pycrypto'..?!
BingoBoingo might look, but assumes when it says 301 redirect it means actual apache 301
Framedragger: not saying that it's amazing or anything, wp eww
phf: ~proper~ ffi in a form of ctypes and "(we exist in own bubble!1) CFFI" has only been added really recently. maybe 5-10 years
Framedragger: BingoBoingo: it's a single php file, relatively elegant i'd say. the logic is in redirect() (line 212 on v1.07 of plugin) if you want to verify lack of satan. seems ~relatively harmless but i no wp plugin masta
Framedragger: phf: given this, would you even say that what pycrypto does is evil, i wonder.. i mean if it uses ctypes ~properly
phf: i wouldn't say it's evil nor not evil
phf: just to clarify it doesn't use ctypes, it's using the old
https://docs.python.org/2/extending/extending.html api. which i suspect is faster, since you're constructing python objects immediately, rather than across the ffi boundry the way ctypes/CFFI would have to naturally do it
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 15:20 Framedragger: (branch prediction side channels etc, dunno how feasible in the context of application using pycrypto..)
Framedragger: ah, i see kk re. ctypes vs the older interface..
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do you happen to have link to original discussion of older us male who goes to orcland under delusion of being roman army veteran, gets used as cattle by locals ?
phf:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1590876 << i suspect that ironclad is still one of the better platforms to audit and integrate into own ecosystem. short of waiting for p what other options do you have? ffi to openssl? the code is readable, in the past year munchkins have been adding various algos to it, so you know what to cut, but also gives you a nice blueprint of how to extend etc.
☝︎☟︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2014-12-10 00:51 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu had an article (or perhaps a thread here? but can't seem to find it...) about an archetypical u.s. expat. fellow keeps a pub somewhere in thailand, or cambodia, etc. the locals - drink for free. he fancies that if he begins to run out of dough, he can always start charging. but somehow in the back of his head he knows what will happen to his sorry arse if he were to do so.
mircea_popescu: fancy we're at the sad stage of decay where i am going to use a vague memory of another as to something i myself said as a reference point.
jhvh1: Last 3 lines bashed and pending publication
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 16:39 phf:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1590876 << i suspect that ironclad is still one of the better platforms to audit and integrate into own ecosystem. short of waiting for p what other options do you have? ffi to openssl? the code is readable, in the past year munchkins have been adding various algos to it, so you know what to cut, but also gives you a nice blueprint of how to extend etc.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes pray tell why do you recommed unity in favour of eulora ? eulora bots exist as a matter of fact, with people hacking on them and repl-ing the results after a 10 minute compile. what equivalent to this does unity offer ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: and plox do not tell me "i just assumed it does because it is the usg.this-thing and i automatically assume the usg.this-thing in all cases and for all things offers".)
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 17:11 asciilifeform:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591017 << since theme of the day appears to be sidechanneling, commonlisptrons lacking a separate cons pool for crypto ops, noncacheability hints, etc. are ripe for the treatment
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: no repl but it's very easy to get things going in unity. though i found it to be clunky in the sense of not being able to contain simple project in one's head, as you have to look at parameters around the IDE/project as well as source code (parts of which are 'attached' to objects). but it's very usable.
mircea_popescu: did you just say "it doesn't work but it's the usg.offer for the space and therefore it must be respected" ?
Framedragger: you can build complex shit fast there. that's a thing.
mircea_popescu: you can't EVEN GET IT RUNNING today. forget build anything.
Framedragger: (not really complex, tho. but you get moving *fast*)
Framedragger: unless latest unity is really broken and all-too-usg, in which case, okay :(
mircea_popescu: every method can in principle be *fast* from a certain perspective, horseback travel is blazing cca 1100. but for making a clock appled my time budget does not exceed a quarter hour nor am i willing to do much more than A COUPLA LINES!
mircea_popescu: 0f, 0f, (float)timespan.TotalHours * -hoursToDegrees);
mircea_popescu: 0f, 0f, (float)timespan.TotalMinutes * -minutesToDegrees);
mircea_popescu: 0f, 0f, (float)timespan.TotalSeconds * -secondsToDegrees);
Framedragger: what don't you like about this bunch of stuff you posted? :)
mircea_popescu: Quaternion.Euler(0f, 0f, time.Hour * -hoursToDegrees);
mircea_popescu: Quaternion.Euler(0f, 0f, time.Minute * -minutesToDegrees);
mircea_popescu: Quaternion.Euler(0f, 0f, time.Second * -secondsToDegrees);
mircea_popescu: apologies to the participants, but this fucking belongs in here. THIS IS NOT CODE.
Framedragger: tell me that at least it's not the syntax that you hate.
Framedragger unfortunately has to run, which has the side effect of delaying wrath inflicted by mp
phf: suggesting unity to republic is setting yourself up for abuse.
Framedragger: wtf people, yes java / c# syntax is not great, but srsly now. your aesthetic sensitivities
phf: Framedragger: it's not about syntax
phf: the thing is promistronic to the max
Framedragger: oh god i hear mircea_popescu's mind-cpu resetting :(
phf: you ~script~ it in C#, by knowing just the right combination of widgets available out of a large collection of widget classes.
mircea_popescu: i suppose he has a point - and if you're trying to make one of those clock walls, you'll just you know, paste down the code three or five or n times with various offsets on the TimeSpan timespan = DateTime.Now.TimeOfDay; plus should one of the clocks have to go backwards you'll paste the code once more but put a minus somewhere (which maintenance will take off because automated bounds checking indicated they should - and befo
mircea_popescu: re you know it you reimplemented openssh in blockchain technology).
mircea_popescu: at some point someone recounted me an anecdote about the indian minded programmers using like a dozen empty for loops in lieu of sleep ; and then when one was hired to optimize the code he did a nested for loop, the inner being one of the previous and the outer equal to their count.
phf: Framedragger: i'm not saying it's good or bad, my original point stands though ~suggesting it to republic is setting yourself up for abuse~ and you can know why ahead of time
mircea_popescu: and they honestly imagine THAT is what people use emacs for, also.
diana_coman: Framedragger, it's not the syntax, it's the whole "approach"; though if you find *that* acceptable, I guess you'll find planeshift code just as acceptable with all its 20-level dependency hell, mix-and-match mess of concepts (hey, what IS a concept anyway and what do you mean there is something other than interface anyway)
mircea_popescu: phf yes of course it's not good or bad, "all turing machines are equivalent let's malbolge nao"
mircea_popescu: it's very bad not because of the computer, which nobody fucking cares, but because it stupids your head.
diana_coman: in other words, mircea_popescu, it is "accessible" and "easy to get things going" - in all the wrong directions, of course, but nobody mentioned anything about direction now, did they
mircea_popescu: i dunno, how the fuck am i to come up with "DateTime.Now.TimeOfDay" ?
mircea_popescu: there's a problem with these "obvious" things that are only ever obvious in retrospect.
mircea_popescu: and no, it's not syntax. if it were, " minutesToDegrees" would be AngleMeasure.Variable.MinutesToDegrees
diana_coman: getting things going is seen as "copy/paste stuff really, no need to come up with anything there
mircea_popescu: i suspect this was built by autoshitter emulated on human head.
diana_coman: there is no scheme and no notion of scheme, because only interface and you know a bit country style: what do you mean you don't know how to get to X? EVERYBODY knows
trinque: someday they'll hook TAB directly into stack overflow
jurov: poor ben_vulpes, imo he meant the article for completely different demographic than present fine society. almost everyone i know began with barfalicious basic or turbopascal
trinque: jump is at least something the machine itself *does*
mircea_popescu: diana_coman i guess the rurality point is actually very apt. just because the monkeys got force-moved to urban "developments" doesn't mean they're not still retarded.
phf: mircea_popescu: that's not what i meant. there are others here who talk about good or bad, where's i don't care, because the cause and effect there is so far removed from where i'm standing i can only look at it in entomological terms
phf: at some point you had engines, and if you wanted to license an engine you got the whole thing, source and ~technological~ notes. later engines started getting in-house nooks and crannies so that your wizard team of mainloop development can focus on squeezing extra couple of ms for a cycle, while your lesser mortals can write the scenario logic etc. there was a reasonable sweet spot there like Aurora or Gamebryo where if you wanted to
phf: license it you'd get source, technotes and some scripting thing. at some point somebody discovered that if you have enough of "some scripting thing", you can keep the engine closed source, thus creating a market of unity/unrealengine/etc.
mircea_popescu: phf i fear the matter was more in the vein of "mcdonalds has hieroglyphic rather than numeric cash reigsters because it uses monkeys not people to operate them"
mircea_popescu: and the whole thing relies on a certain blindness of "why is the tomato green on your cash register but blue in my plate and shouldn't tomatoes be red to begin with" which is the very bread and butter of both "mit is the premier science and technology institution at the world series" as well as "thank you for your leadership we will conqueliberate mosul in two weeks three years ago. or four."
phf: well, yes, but mcdonalds is not the best analogy. it's commodification. "buy this thing that all the pros use and be just like a pro! comes with EASY TO USE controls!"
mircea_popescu: if the average programmer were literate as opposed to marginally qualified clucker, a) configuration wouldn't be confused with programming and b) vice-versa either.
mircea_popescu: for that matter, "ai" wouldn't be confused with a large bank of switches.
phf: right, in a sense that "pros" are as much of an illusion
mircea_popescu: what, you think it's the fox's option as to whether to chase the chicken ?
mircea_popescu: the fox chases the chicken because the chicken, not because the fox.
phf: gosling knew what he was doing when he designed java, said so himself.
phf: at this point probably apocryphal, but i'll try to find the origin
phf: there was an interview where he says that the design goal was to make the managers happy by making teams replaceable. widget driven development, where each widget is isolated from each other
phf: at some point you could easily find small collections of early gosling quotes, which are really quite harsh and were liberally in anti-java arguments, but now i can't find any :o
mircea_popescu: dude. quaternions. DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME OMFG i'm hyperventilating over here. to quote their fucking manual, "Quaternions have some advantages when it comes to gimbal lock and smooth interpolation. Their main downside is that they rely on advanced math -- math that even experienced developers often find difficult and confusing. [...] People very rarely interact with quaternions directly. As it turns out, it's almost always eas
mircea_popescu: ier to manipulate them using other representations [...] I recommend using quaternion variables [...]"
mircea_popescu: do you understand this Framedragger ? there is a ~COST~ to this "getting going fast", and that cost is - you give up ON UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE FUCK YOU'RE DOING!
mircea_popescu: how the fuck it's not exactly the mcdonalds hieroglyphic cash register is anyone's guess.
mircea_popescu: these people can't find a simple limit in their head and yet fucking vectors are no good for them anymore.
mircea_popescu: with any luck there's a Heisenberg.ToSchroedinger first class function implemented in this unity thing and it runs permanently in the background.
phf: you don't understand, that's just code bro machismo speaking. we must make programming easier and more accessible, so that even kids in uganda can produce AAA award winning games!
mircea_popescu: meanwhile the last time anyone produced a game the wtc was still standing.
mircea_popescu: oh, hey, I KNEW this was gonna be in there. a) "I recommend using quaternion variables to represent two things: an object's rotation, and/or a rotation which you'd like to apply to some object." ; b) "You cannot represent rotations of greater than 180 degrees with Quaternions, and when doing a Slerp() or MoveTowards() rotation with Quaternions, the rotation always take the shortest path. So if you need to rotate more than 180
☟︎ mircea_popescu: and of course b is in the fine print and of course this just became a fine example of the discussion itself.
mircea_popescu: now the fucking code "that's easy to get up" will have to contain a pi radian check because otherwise clocks may be going backwards.
mircea_popescu: and the ~only way~ innocent grasshopper could even know about this is if graybeard can be arsed to go through these motions - which you couldn't pay me to do as a regular thing.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-10 21:33 asciilifeform: for absolutely nothing, esp. if you can offload the cost of your turd being pwned weekly, needing 16GB of ram, crashing daily, etc. on OTHER PEOPLE
phf: there's a gamedev coworking in philly, the space is primarily rented by some team that had a handful of successful releases in appstore. naturally games written in unity. they can't rent by themselves, but as a minor celebrity (game featured on appstore frontpage for a whole two weeks!1) they can share rent with a handful of other 1-2 people teams. i went there once before finding all this out, because was expecting a scene squat. after
phf: discussing the moon phases of successful appstore game releases with their shamans, i spent about an hour shoulder surfing one of the "main devs". guy was trying to get a texture to render without artifacts (ultimately it's a texture mapped to a surface in opengl and if you don't want the opengl's scaling to kick in you have to get the size just right), and literally everything that he was saying was in terms of "i read this one
phf: tutorial and the say you need to enable FooSwitch in BarOptions, but this other tutorial says you need to use PNG, etc.
phf: it's active ~disempowerment~, because opengl is already a tricky state machine, but they are trying to manipulate it by controlling a puppet that's using chopstick to toggle switches on a pdp-10 that has effects on the environment state. i'm sure ~if you don't need unity~ you can filter out all the noise, but good luck if that's your first exposure to 3d
trinque: it's where you hax killer apps with other up and coming unicorn startup CEOs
☟︎ phf: asciilifeform: yes! "i get lonely working from home"
mircea_popescu: coworking space is harem without master or tits. also known as refuse pit.
phf: well, it's very close in spirit and substance to that warehouse that burned down
mircea_popescu: "this is the painting of a knife without a handle that's missing the blade."
phf: well, these "without master" conversation always remind me of the conversations i have with uber drivers. "i'm my own boss, ese, can work whenever i want -- yeah, man, that's great, now turn left here"
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591202 << i have NO FUCKING IDEA why technical monkeys would wish to misrepresent themselves with this ceo business. being a ceo is entirely orthogonal on what they do, it's like a car mechanic claiming he's a fuel chemist. no good can possibly come of this.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 18:28 trinque: it's where you hax killer apps with other up and coming unicorn startup CEOs
trinque: mircea_popescu: same reason central african presidents are always "doctor", aside "president"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the distance people will run to avoid wot, you know ?
mircea_popescu: i suppose the issue occurs on the slippery slope of "executive", as in seinfeld.
mircea_popescu: (fun fact : poor man's fixed menus in this country are called "menu ejecutivo".)
trinque: mod6: mind your step while I hose Unity's blood and piss out of the room.
mod6: Take your time, Sir.
mircea_popescu: dude... someone tell lafond if womenz dun listen it's not about the womenz.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 17:13 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes pray tell why do you recommed unity in favour of eulora ? eulora bots exist as a matter of fact, with people hacking on them and repl-ing the results after a 10 minute compile. what equivalent to this does unity offer ?
mircea_popescu: as exemplified in the logs i have at least one example of guy learning to program on eulora ; and 0 examples in unity.
ben_vulpes: did mircea_popescu think the piece was actually supposed to be useful for teaching noobz to c0d3?
☟︎ ben_vulpes: whole first paragraph didn't register or what
ben_vulpes: "learning programming" is miserable and none of the things suggested "are programming"
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> dude... someone tell lafond if womenz dun listen it's not about the womenz. << he has comment box and I am busy with unprecedented USDA lulz rivaling unprecedented Israel lulz
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 16:39 phf:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1590876 << i suspect that ironclad is still one of the better platforms to audit and integrate into own ecosystem. short of waiting for p what other options do you have? ffi to openssl? the code is readable, in the past year munchkins have been adding various algos to it, so you know what to cut, but also gives you a nice blueprint of how to extend etc.
ben_vulpes: amusingly, sha512sum shows drepper as an author on this particular system
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 445386 | Current Difficulty: 3.10153855703E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 445535 | Next Difficulty In: 149 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 0 hours, 11 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
jurov wonders why no mention of fully skynet-capable tractors that can't be bought, only licensed
jurov: yes yes, just a way to raise awareness and for BingoBoingo to scoop some more precious shares :)
jurov: !!!russian h4x0rz!!!
BingoBoingo: jurov: Ah, yeah tractor lulz just not acute enough atm
ben_vulpes: i am pretty sure this automated phone system just told me that there were 128 people "ahead of me in line", took down my number and then called me back immediately to put me on hold
ben_vulpes: i wonder what metrics are being gamed here
ben_vulpes: i once sat in on a sales meeting where this security gentleman terrorized a poor nonprofit into wasting tens of thousands of dollars on snake oil
phf: asciilifeform: i did all those. i was in security for example, doing pen testing and later opsec design. that was in 2004 though
ben_vulpes: i have been considering buying a few beat up tow and box trucks and getting into the hauling of cars and storing of shit
ben_vulpes: ain't like alibaba and amz are going to stop shipping cheap petrocrap to the states
ben_vulpes: i'm also experimenting with alternative identities, imagining wearing a food truck, to see "how the other half lives"
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 19:35 ben_vulpes: yes.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 19:36 ben_vulpes: did mircea_popescu think the piece was actually supposed to be useful for teaching noobz to c0d3?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: that'd be how i actually learned anything useful, finding a master jumping when told.
phf: asciilifeform: i also did physical security, actually my biggest lisp project was modifying FREEDIUS to do perimeter security on multiple large south african compounds. they needed to do coordinated incident escalation and wanted something more sophisticated then a wall of monitors
phf: asciilifeform: but i ~learned~ web 2.0 when it came out in 2004 or 2005 or so, back then because it was interesting new technology. literally nothing changed since then. so now web is an easy racket. despite all the "shitstack" cries there's no difference between it and other types of manure work, but the bar is so low, it is sometimes very convenient. if you're a ~good~ developer doing web, you can write your own check, write your own
phf: schedule and write your terms of engagement.
mats: heh, half a dozen folks i know at tripadvisor are likely still there because boss is ok with consuming a growler before noon
mircea_popescu: (i also thought that it was a lulzfest to rival that wikipedia founder/retard's crazy batshit "knowledge" thing)
mats: watta privilege, getting shitfaced on the job
mircea_popescu: or no wait, sanger did the retarded "citizen encyclopedia", the crazy "knowledge" job was something else
phf: asciilifeform: i literally don't spend ~any time~ learning web on my own. i simply have this unprecedented apparently ability to sit the fuck down and read the documentation/source code for longer then it takes to google twitch. spend 3 hours of reading docs??? forget about it, i might as well be a wizard of some sort.
ben_vulpes: "wait, how do you even find the source code for stuff?!"
phf: ben_vulpes: "i don't know what's going on here" "ok, let's see what the source says *opens source, starts reading*" "???!?!??!??!?"
ben_vulpes: "i tell ya tho, all that time you spend tweaking emacs is entirely useless." *navigates to precise spot of insanity* "well that's cool, but emacs is still a waste of time, i coulda found that on github in a few seconds"
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 20:23 asciilifeform: Great Inca cements himself into every possible process loop, makes sure that everybody understands that 'if Great Inca falls -- famine.'
mircea_popescu: (see greek "10 virgin girls, 10 virgin boys" teseus history)
trinque still cannot believe the immense effort that people put into making "dynamic" web page frameworks when the overwhelming majority of the web is static content.
trinque: maybe you get a comment sometime or whatever.
trinque: if that doesn't indicate ~there's no one at the wheel~ ...
ben_vulpes: anyone ever see the hoops people jump through on large "magento" sites?
jurov was for some time making money basically by reading 10y old perl, too...
ben_vulpes: (at least the magento folks have the decency to call their phpball a "site")
mircea_popescu recalls meeting cca i dunno, 2005 maybe ? dorks were going to make a shop, made demo, mark (eldery expat, texan, totally lovely) innocently goes "wouldn't this be a lot better if it worked ?"
phf: ben_vulpes: it's actual the opposite lulz right now. intellij idea is excellent tool for shitstacking, but i know ok devs who stick to subltime text or vim because "lightweight" "real hacker tool", even though they lack discipline and skill to use those tools effectively. it's like "no, you should probably use this thing, so that i don't have to fucking deal with your inability to format your own source file"
mircea_popescu: he didn't even mean anything by it, he was using it ~to encourage~ the kids.
mircea_popescu: as in, you know, "i'm sure this is great and all, and the not working totally incidental"
ben_vulpes: kinda think "not working totally incidental" has not been a favor to its recipients.
mircea_popescu: of course at the time dev work was cheap. i had no interest, but this actually happened in del ray casino ; and the kids were asking for less than what people threw at the sluttier ticas in chips.
ben_vulpes: phf: even naive xcode shits whitespace all over the place
phf: ben_vulpes: well, that's why there's appcode.
ben_vulpes: > seamlessly integrates with cocoapods
ben_vulpes: i don't usually fuck with dependencies, but when i do i want my ide to fix all of the problems for me
a111: Logged on 2014-02-13 00:54 asciilifeform: 'carding' as we know it is actually a creature of u.s. and british banks. which profit from it.
phf: appcode/xcode/vs/etc. are not ~your ide~, none of this is yours. i mean it's sort of like being sent to gulag and grumbling about wheelbarrow design. of course you will, because mind, but it's not going to make your life easier
jhvh1: Last 1 lines bashed and pending publication
mircea_popescu: alf likes to assert "x profits from it" but this assertion is kinda nude. apple benefits from xcode about as much as rbs benefits from western world being made of chickens.
mircea_popescu: gotta spend all this time maning stockades, rather than the other way around
phf: asciilifeform: you mean berzin's? no wait pavlov's? oh wait. nikishov's? yeah scratch that too
mircea_popescu: there's an important business strategy point here that's not discussed among the chickens, but hark : it is actually a better business strategy to sell to isis than to us consumer - because isis is still on the ground in spite of usg shooting missles at it ; whereas us consumer is barely standing in spite of usg pumping all it can print straight into him.
mircea_popescu: you want your customers to be tough, because if they survive so do you.
mircea_popescu: even emperor-god-jobs was KICKED OUT OF HIS OWN CORP by the fuckers.
mircea_popescu: as a point of sovereign strategy, you always want to trade with the smallest and toughest of the neighbours - it's productive, plus it softens them up ; and to loot and pillage the largest, softest of neighbours (preferably under the guise of "being allies" and "keeping the peace" if possible, but outright rapine otherwise).
mircea_popescu: which i suppose is the main strategic direction of tmsr - in a few years they either pay us to "secure" all systems or else the systems burn down.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: then in a few centuries tmsr guard can protect the scotuspope much like the swiss guard in rome today. nice hats and all.
mircea_popescu: "the whitehouse website based in maryland" as the expression went.
mircea_popescu: btw are you foundation people gonna make a prize gala or something ?
trinque: that it came out as a trollface smiley is a sign from the gods.
mod6: gala? last we were discussing some sort of university advertising
mod6: and we had some ideas regarding the same, but didn't come to any specific conculsions.
mod6: not as of yet. working on it.
trinque: ben_vulpes: www-wot package farts out a bunch of json index files for the search
phf: is there link outside of twitter?
mod6: i'd actually say we're close, but we're working on some phrasing etc.
ben_vulpes: so here's what i'm thinking re: ironclad
ben_vulpes: i don't want to say something like "ensure you have HEAD of the Ironclad library", i think it's more likely and more in line with waht mod6 is doing to shell out to sha512sum
mod6: ya 'tis what v.pl does
ben_vulpes: i'm also not really in a mood to make ironclad_genesis.vpatch today
ben_vulpes: plan then is to grind this patch for my v out shelling out to sha512sum
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu, phf, asciilifeform, mod6: thoughts?
mod6: tmsr aught to send out a message to them saying their shit dun work
mod6: ah ok. was that the pdf i didn't read?
phf: nah, the fix is in the trunk already
ben_vulpes: phf: not in whatever quicklisp builds though, right?
ben_vulpes: the one time i want a package manager to have the most recent commits...
phf: "you can't fix a machine by just power-cycling it with no understanding of what is going wrong"
mircea_popescu: ok so if they put patches in at least, what's the argument against linking to them ?
ben_vulpes: guy lays out in his "how ironclad came to be" that he doesn't really spend much time on it anymore.
mircea_popescu: no practical way to just steal the sha itself make it a standalone ?
ben_vulpes: might be more practical to make a genesis for the fixed version
mircea_popescu: will probably end up with a tmsr crypto lib anyway, might as well start thinking about it.
mircea_popescu: course since the nsa consulting work for minigame is going to produce ada rsa, it might be an idea to have an ~ada~ tmsr crypto lib.
☟︎☟︎☟︎ ben_vulpes: i am trying to figure out how to handle widely-distributed versions of ironclad not working in the way i need them to work for my v to verify hashes on press
phf: just want it work huh
ben_vulpes: not indefinitely postpone releasing this vpatch while i wait for stan to release an ada cryptor and link that from cl
☟︎ ben_vulpes: i am willing to do all sorts of stupid shit, buddy
ben_vulpes: anyways, mircea_popescu says "don't shell out to sha512sum"?
mircea_popescu: gotta discuss this otherwise we'll end up with apical chaos.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes do i have such a reputation for blocking work ?
mircea_popescu: now then. can the lispheads live with the idea of an ada tmsr-cryptolib ? perhaps with it as a reference and a lisp copy ?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i say "keep shelling to it for as long as that's what you do, but once you change that change it to something sane"
mircea_popescu: if the thing you're shelling to is actually the right thing, take the code put it in a lib or in your application.
mircea_popescu: but as a principle, the shell exists for a human operator. shelling from code is much like taking knives and forks, melting them, and trying to dropforge tools. they WERE ALREADY metal that was forged into something. go to that source, change that from knives to wrenches or w/e you are doing. no need to involve the whole supermarket chain to sell you metal ingots in fork shape at 20bux a half dozen
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 930.85, vol: 7071.97692009 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 906.046, vol: 6799.44128 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 932.97, vol: 9348.2437732 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 963.622033, vol: 2434915.56320000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 932.903, vol: 1742.5150349 | Volume-weighted last average: 963.23042046
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 22:16 ben_vulpes: not indefinitely postpone releasing this vpatch while i wait for stan to release an ada cryptor and link that from cl
ben_vulpes: aiui, my options are link or shell. is this incorrect?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes considering the only reason your lisp vtron even exists is because you're apparently fond of reimplementation,
mircea_popescu: it stands to reason that no, those two aren't your only options.
mircea_popescu: there is A LOT of strength in this, having a core of libs/utils that aren't merely written, nor merely reviewed, but TRANSLATED
mircea_popescu: it is of the same type as the openbsd compiling for vaxen
mircea_popescu: unlike - in fact opposite - to poetry, code actually improves through translation.
ben_vulpes: "i did not choose the nih lifestyle, the nih lifestyle chose me"
jurov: ben_vulpes: if #t becomes dull some day, you can stir it by translating it to javascript
ben_vulpes: jurov: didn't polarbeard or whomever threaten us with a js v?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: what, you want /more/ radiation damage?
ben_vulpes: it is called as the man says "node.js"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you use curl on the box to call into the loopback where an apache server with lamp runs.
ben_vulpes: it is used to further drive down the cost of human cogs crapping out lines of code
ben_vulpes: because "HOLY GRAIL: ONE LANG IN BROWSER AND SERVER"
jurov: yep, google divorced js engine from chrome
phf: it's called v8, which is a case of talented programmers working for fuhrer
jurov: or was it some kind of incest?
jurov: as paperclip'd nazi scientists, they would work for anyone who allows them to, imo
mircea_popescu: actually the crypto lib should be in js anyway. down with fucking ints.
mircea_popescu has always wondered how much of the ecdsa push met with approval because people couldn't do bignum math anyway.
phf: lars bak used to work on high performance smalltalk virtual machines, then java. v8 is still the case "ok, let me write some semblance of sane technology for this shit language of yours". since then everything that's happened around javascript is cargoculting v8
phf: people bolt v8 on cli, called it node, make landing strips out of straw with it
ben_vulpes: strikingly similar to some other description of how perl grew "object oriented programming"
phf: most of the things seem to have sane core, which you can dig for for a long time, but it's there, and the reason is that ~doing anything at all~ is so much effort, everything that's done is a byproduct of some human being constructively spending energy at one time in one place.
phf: kind of like cat-v, from recent memory, was a fledgling tmsr at one point: mp died, asciilifeform's left elsewhere, maggots still there
phf: asciilifeform: if you squint really hard, in the same sense that "scene was closest precursor to tmsr in computing before"
BingoBoingo: One could say same about OpenBSD except their mp (Theo) was and stayed poor and stooges (Bob Beck) rallied to gatekeeper and treasury positions
mircea_popescu: at least in intent/intuition i can see the cat-v, wanted to be tmsr, didn't know what it wants or how it goes thesis.
mircea_popescu: from what i read of the mythical founder, he read very much like a young naggum / gl
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: would be a biter with insufficient venom to kill rather than emotionally wound