log
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mod6: Framedragger: thanks for the heads up
mod6: <+Framedragger> anyway not sure how useful but you might want to take a look at http://thebitcoin.foundation/tickets/ doppler (at *_tickets.html), not sure how up to date. (...) << Yeah, it needs some updating. The new V is going to be out in the next few days. Then will put some time into that.
Framedragger: ooh new V, shiny
mod6: Yup, all the wot variant rules are in place. We now orphan vpatches from the flow where ~all~ antecedents are *not* present. Some other small changes, such as; When you press to a give output directory 'X', and then press to the same given output directory, we first remove 'X', then create & press.
mod6: Heh, I'm working on a major update to T, also. It's been a bit slow-going as that isn't obviously the most high priority item.
mod6: I do want to outline more of the trb-i work in tickets, and do some clean-up/management of existing trb tickets.
mod6: There is some side project stuff too that I'd like to get organized and tickets entered for. For instance, you, Framedragger, did some work towards the filesystem idea. We aught to have a ticket for that and track the results.
mod6: Even if you think that we're at a wall, and we've seen all there is to see.. then we record those numbers. Or if we should try on baremetal with, reiserfs, and record those, or if even with those baselines, then someday we make our own filesystem and compare to those baselines.
mod6: *shrug*
mod6: Gotta have a way to go back and check easily, and have a place for that.
mod6: Anyway, just as an example of side-projects that need tracking...
mod6: It's important work.
mod6: Would be really nice if we could get away from BDB.
mod6: There are some other cool side projects going on now too... such as the wallet-cut effort.
mod6: So we need some updated tracking to that effort.
mod6: I dont need a ticket for this, but man, I really gotta get into the swing of Ada.
mod6: So I'll be getting into the thick of that very soon. Lot to do to get trb-i going.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> to n00bs i often recommend to have an analogue scope also << are these just a bit easer to learn on than their digital counterparts?
Framedragger: mod6: fwiw i agree completely. the key point here is (as you said) *noting it down* (including dead-ends). so yeah, afaict you're on the very right track here. i wonder, does the current system need complex massaging to be able to track things like that? i mean, you can add tickets, but i guess no way for them to have a *list* of notes (per ticket)
Framedragger: i guess having an easy way to add new projects (or have a 'misc' parent but maybe that's too dirty) would help in that it'd be easier to record stuff, including tasks not directly tied to trb or V
mod6: no, not a list of notes per ticket in the original version.
mod6: in the new version it's setup different.
Framedragger: ok cool :)
mod6: there can be public/private projects.
mod6: there are project admins, and project users... etc. i should add the ability for rich or chained notes.
Framedragger: (btw since there's so much different stuff happening i was considering doing something like http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-13#1481401 (and possibly using log.mkj.lt's multi-line-citation feature to 'capture' different notes/projects) but obviously expanding the ticketing system in a consistent, proper way is the way to go)☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-06-13 01:00 Framedragger should write some kind of simple thingie which takes (1) keyword and (2) timestamp pairs as intervals, and produces a kind of wiki page for all given keywords. (2) can be amended later as needed. so that there'd be a page for gossipd without much effort at all
mod6: it's meant to be project cutomizeable per project... with like the ticket codes, etc. i'm building out the database now... and it's going well, just slowly.
Framedragger: hey that sounds pretty awesome.
mod6: hopefully it'll be at least better than the first version, which is fine for now, but certainly could be better.
mod6: yeah, there was this intial idea of a 'stenographer'.. and I think that's what drove me to just make the ticket system.
Framedragger: (current version records the important things including trb work, so imho it's doing fine)
mod6: and we could track things easier instead of having to have it be a formal role. but with the new version, seperate projects can have different users, so for instance, if UCI wants a stenographer, then the project admin can just add the steno to the UCI users table. volla.
mod6: any ticketing thing is as useful as you make it. it takes effort to remember to keep it up and to ~use~ it. any thing we can do to make that a more automated process though, is nice.
mod6: tb0t eventually will be upgraded to use the new system.
mod6: so that might help. i might write some sort of API also where project admins can interact with their projects without having to use IRC.
mod6: some sort of PGP based command system.
mircea_popescu: mod6 doesn't seem all that slow going from here :)
mod6: :]
Framedragger: mod6: by steganographer, do you mean a way of linking to chat lines relevant to given project, or a way of automatically linking relevant chat lines (keywords), or a (flesh) user role? just curious
mircea_popescu: also, we are not at wall : we saw ext4 ; did not see ext2 ; did not see reiserfs.
mod6: i started working on it very briefly ... maybe 7-10 days in like ... december. but haven't touched it since.
Framedragger: (yeah mircea_popescu afraid i won't have time re. those other two till quite a bit later)
mircea_popescu: sure, wasn't re you, was about his ticket.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> also, we are not at wall : we saw ext4 ; did not see ext2 ; did not see reiserfs. << for sure. i think we're just getting started baselining these prototypes.
mod6: so a very exciting time, as far as I'm concerned.
mircea_popescu: fo sho.
mod6: Framedragger: the stenographer role was proposed to be an actual job for the foundation, complete with pay and everything.
mircea_popescu: we ~might~ even wish to see fat32/
mod6: The role was put on hold since I wrote `t', and 'tb0t', but might come back up again at a later date.
mod6: You never know.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: oof, max fat32 size is 4gb, with a maximum of (to the tune of) hundreds of millions of files (less than 1bn); there's also exFAT of course, etc., but eugh
Framedragger: mod6: interesting to know!
mircea_popescu: no, i know. but if we end up patching dumbass systems, we should consider the whole field of dumbass systems. not just the ones that falsely promise to work and then fail to work ; but also the ones which honestly admit their limits.
mircea_popescu: i don't recall being as pissed off with fat32 at any point throughout the 90s as i've regularly been hence.
Framedragger: sure. my internal alfatron says "may as well test for tape backup storage system viability" though; surely it's inefficient to test *all* things in a domain that one is not optimistic to begin with. but i see your rationale of course
mircea_popescu: consider : IF we decide to make megabyte large blocks, who says fat32 is inadequate then ? that 4gb has a lot to do with the size of a block.
Framedragger: afraid i didn't catch this particular drift, sir
mircea_popescu: and for that matter, who's to say a simple move to 64 bits doesn't resolve the problem altogether. but anyway, i'm more making a point than proposing a technical solution.
Framedragger: 4096 blocks per partition, with limited number of partitions per disk, etc?
Framedragger: suresure.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger no, 4gb where "byte" = 1 mb.
Framedragger: not that my word carries a lot of weight here but gotta say, alf's block storage idea (bypassing fs) makes a lotta sense (and is elegant, with defined complexity, etc.)
mircea_popescu: to my eyes it looks a lot like fs-in-a-fs.
Framedragger: not at all! sure, you still rely on disk's firmware but the degree of crapola-reliance is orders of magnitude less. *you do not deal with filesystem at all*.
mircea_popescu: but yes, certainly to be looked into.
Framedragger: you basically deal with a continuous array; plus the option to be careful to read/write at sector boundaries for i/o efficiency.
mod6: well, whatever we go with will be a solution driven by performance numbers and functional satisfaction.
Framedragger: so many items for tickets :)
mircea_popescu: but yes mod6 has it. gotta measure this crap.
mod6: so, let the prototyping begin!
shinohai: In Coinbase lulz "Customers who wish to access both blockchains at the time of the hard fork should withdraw their BTC from GDAX"
Framedragger: gdax looks to have a sick animation on the landing page, with forever-rising candles
Framedragger: well i'm sold
shinohai: They are like blockchain.info where the most important "upgrades" are cute animations to the UI
shinohai still remembers wtf'ing with mod6 over the fact their new, improved site had no way to dump privkeys for nearly 2 months
mod6: that made me so mad.
mod6: well, not mad, more like disgusted
mircea_popescu: lol
trinque: homeboy from san antonio needs to pick a less retarded name
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-19#1629214 << "if you're not falling you're not learning", also "conflict is productive"☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-19 23:43 mircea_popescu: it's not a bad thing, not among people who love each other.
mircea_popescu: confined conflict/
ben_vulpes: pls to expand?
mircea_popescu: "exothermic oxidation is productive". sure it is, if it happens in the combustion chamber.
ben_vulpes: ah yah
mircea_popescu: that's why science is based on research, yes, but not random research. paradigm-supported research.
mircea_popescu: and so on.
ben_vulpes: you can't spend all that energy confronting her with her own mistakes, let her walk out, digest it, and the next man benefit
ben_vulpes: if you don't own it, what the fuck is the point fixing it?
ben_vulpes: asks the guy who developed a recreational habit of fixing other people's toilets in the most retarded corner of south america...
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: i understand you though. they're so boneheadedly retarded they're offensive to the very concepts.
trinque imagines ben_vulpes standing atop a fixed shitter patriotically, like the bum in mircea_popescu's parable
trinque: THIS HERE IS MY SHITTER NOW
ben_vulpes: i mean there's a whole trumpet flare and clouds parting and everything sure
trinque: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/74/76/fd/7476fdcd2b9a4afebc143ccdd72c1d7f.jpg
ben_vulpes: but the experience is more that of having blessed some random jews wandering in the desert with the secrets of hygiene
ben_vulpes: trinque: lol, verily
mircea_popescu: in other lulz : there's this matte window to the side of my chicken. and there's a gecko who now lives there. but i mean totally, its his window.
mircea_popescu: i suppose the light attracts delishius snacks.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: pardon me but the side of your /what/?
mircea_popescu: ahaha
mircea_popescu: kitchen
ben_vulpes: anyways, upstack, i have had a very ahem productive weekend
ben_vulpes: imagine, extracting penitence from an nth-wave feminist child of gs-infinity staff
ben_vulpes: old hat for the mircea_popescu's
mircea_popescu: same here. new slavegirl, haven't slept since sat.
ben_vulpes: also acquired a few new g5 towers
ben_vulpes: get 'em while you can, folks
ben_vulpes: well, 'new'. new to me.
mircea_popescu: what, towers are disappearing ?!
ben_vulpes: no, specifically the macintosh ppc g5's
trinque has several piles of that hardware here too
trinque: the minis are also nice to have
mircea_popescu: ah
ben_vulpes: with the forth based firmware, etc
ben_vulpes: i'm sure stan has all sorts of shade to throw
ben_vulpes: nevertheless, i have good money that says these machines will be plentiful and cheap until they are utter unobtainium.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-16#1483684☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-06-16 21:34 asciilifeform: it was an interesting arch
mircea_popescu: imagine if in a few years the actual fucking chunks of metal are the point of worship. "oh man, that's tech! who can make straight angles anymore!"
mircea_popescu: sells for 7k funbux on the ruby app.
ben_vulpes: cases are very pretty at that
trinque: yeh, outside and in
mircea_popescu: you've been inside ?!
ben_vulpes: golden era of jobsdom
mircea_popescu pictures 3 inch tall trinque
trinque: lel
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it occurs to me, btw, that the scam whereby people who were holding jobs shares were converted to cook shares is one of the cruelest things in nature.
mircea_popescu: "hey, it's still apple". bitch... that is SO not apple...
mircea_popescu: "well... the other guy died" aaaand this is my problem how! i bought jobs stock not fucking wtf this is.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: bezzle land corporate structuring is just sad on every axis
mircea_popescu: pretty much
ben_vulpes: hacker nyooz recently realized how brokerages add slack to the market, twas a lulzy set of comments
trinque: been considering the ideological reproduction thing since recent genetics threads (and rereading related trilema)
ben_vulpes: 'omfg you mean to tell me there's no centralized database of who owns what and owes who else which shares?'
trinque: you'd have thought Ive was going to be the guy
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: to be fair, anyone who didn't liquidate a week before jobs' illness hit the rags is a derp who got what they deserved
ben_vulpes: but you know how it goes. traders, trade. hodlers, hodl. investors, what dat.
trinque: how many decades of Jobs beatings did Ive take, and he what, internalized none of it?
trinque: guy probably had more of it directed at him than anybody else in the place
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yes, from an individual perspective. but in aggregate, worst case of confederate dollars ever. "we'll take these 5bn shares of apple and replace them with 5bn shjares of crapple. because it's ok hurr."
ben_vulpes: oh, come, he just organized the teams as what took the shellacking
ben_vulpes: stood by, happy to not be in the hotseat
trinque: not according to his own account
trinque: entirely not so
mircea_popescu: lel own account ?
ben_vulpes: i'm plain unaware of what he says
trinque: I've heard Ive talking (with misty eye almost) about how the relationship with Jobs was "hard"
ben_vulpes: well ofc he'd /say/ that, /now/
ben_vulpes: dipshits who got onto the car project will say that about /him/
trinque: mk my whole point here is that the obvious successor failed
mircea_popescu: succession is a particularly dubious proposition.
mircea_popescu: i don't think there's a case in history where the shareholders got their money's worth.
trinque: entirely my point, aha
ben_vulpes: kill the old boss and take his chair
mircea_popescu: so much so that it seems to me the whole model is fundamentally flawed. what "corporation" ? bs. wot-style, one man.
ben_vulpes chants blood blood blood
trinque: "our company" just like "our democracy"
mircea_popescu: the delusion of a corporation has at its core the notion that "what to do" is a well explored space, and that "anyone" could and moreover in that position would be doing it.
mircea_popescu: this works ok if the corporation does stuff buffett understands, like fishing, or manufacturing chewing gum
mircea_popescu: nobody gives a shit about that, nor can a model based on such examples be THE MODEL.
ben_vulpes: buffet at least endeavoured once upon a time to buy firms with established mgmt.
mircea_popescu: and especially these days, when they don't even own the capital goods in any sense whatsoever.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yeah, and guess why ? because outside of the owner, the paper's not worth jack.
ben_vulpes: funny, veen and i were just running through this
ben_vulpes: "would you rather buy a car repair shop or a subway?"
mircea_popescu: buy a subway holy shit. why the fuck would you buy an item the dorks expect to be provided "as a publicgood". fuck them.
mircea_popescu: let them provide it.
ben_vulpes: well yeah, nobody wants to deal with schmucks who're going to gripe about the shitbuck it's going to take to fix their sole mode of transportation
mircea_popescu: quite.
ben_vulpes: more specifically, "assuming one wants a car shop for purely emotional and recreational reasons, how to determine what to pay for it?" "calculate hardware liquidation price, discount four years of cashflow declining by 10-30% a year to today, and offer a dime over that"
mircea_popescu: moreover fuck the "it's going to take". you want me to own an item i can't price to market ? hurr.
trinque: ben_vulpes: isn't trimet some kind of quasi-governmental tick sucking on not one, but two states?
trinque: the only "own a subway" is that
ben_vulpes: trinque: triggered
mircea_popescu: pretty much, yes.
ben_vulpes: trinque: subway trash food vendor
mircea_popescu: that's the game in "owning" public infrastructure : you pretend to be the owner, offer the bureaucrats all the convenient excuses you can while sucking all the tax money possible. it's like lockheed martin without the wings
ben_vulpes: which go for 5-7x what a car shop goes for, fwiw
mircea_popescu: o wait, lockheed martin thing doesn't actually fly either
mircea_popescu: it's ~= lockheed martin, on examination.
trinque: lol
ben_vulpes: the best game in town is actually to sell "software services" to the "public utilities"
mircea_popescu: but yes, it's one step above trying to make money out of "guaranteed A essay" depository websites.
mircea_popescu: except the essay is not for schoolboy consumption but for bureauctat consumption. he gives it to his boss / superviser / inquiry committee and walks
ben_vulpes: except for how it's a miserable shitshow of liars and frauds and also you have to sell shit they won't actually benefit from to bureaucrats
mircea_popescu: yeah, that's the problem with "sweet" setups of the religious persuasion : no real barrier to entry, it's all blowing smoke. so you sooner or later find yourself eyeball deep in the shitswamp and wonder how the "sweet" thing ended up fulla flies.
ben_vulpes has a tool in place, the annual maintenance and extension budget for which was dwarfed by the amount of money spent closing the sale on its replacement. which is going on lord only knows how late, nth rewrite, over budget, no surprises in sight
mircea_popescu: there's a lot of dumb shit young men do because their parents are woodland creatures / barn animals, buyt this is by far the most common, "building a career" on government crap.
mircea_popescu: seems a great idea until you're 40 and 10-15-20 years in.
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-16#1628104 << tripped over the "won't connect to localhost" horseshit iirc, which you've fixed☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-16 17:25 asciilifeform: iirc ben_vulpes set up a similar experiment ( lan miner ) a month or so ago, but i dun recall what came of it
ben_vulpes: and with this bit of how the other half lives, i bid ye adieu: http://68.media.tumblr.com/2b2348d8f69c7d1dd8d1ba6b96358cf4/tumblr_omzwq2XTZI1vg6t4ko1_1280.jpg
BingoBoingo: <doppler> I've seen that you ask it quite often << Are you sure it was him you saw asking?
shinohai: I had to fill in during your absence BingoBoingo
shinohai: But certainly moar log reading is in order.
trinque: I'll be impressed when the "I'm just a dude" trope goes away.
trinque: if so, what's with the demure intro
shinohai: "Oh wow, we've never had just any dudes here"
BingoBoingo: From the great justice files http://www.deseretnews.com/article/787926/Doctors-alcoholic-defense-frustrates-the-IRS.html
trinque: We admitted we were powerless to give a shit about the IRS
trinque: it checks out
BingoBoingo: !~step9
jhvh1: 9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
BingoBoingo: ^ Nothing about amends to non-people which would be injurious to actual people
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D33126663C8161A8EF4DCCEAA5321D0CBF95441A3D35C0BAC2BAF6D2F4397C40 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1135...5527 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.11.75 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.11.75 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/71AF9594F2393F6AB85B14C1C615C449E8833966B1FA30A198C98FC36750B4C5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1107...9569 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.1.161 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.1.161 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D33126663C8161A8EF4DCCEAA5321D0CBF95441A3D35C0BAC2BAF6D2F4397C40 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1107...9569 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.11.75 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.11.75 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/71AF9594F2393F6AB85B14C1C615C449E8833966B1FA30A198C98FC36750B4C5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1155...2443 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.1.161 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.1.161 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
shinohai: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: shinohai: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1046.62, vol: 9715.90190285 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1058.0, vol: 10542.53481 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1046.4, vol: 31965.72322665 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1036.93467, vol: 4979.26190000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1021.79, vol: 3648.79513829 | Volume-weighted last average: 1046.19464506
asciilifeform: in other lulz, from the dept. of 'let's make a sham version of EVERYTHING discussed in #trilema', http://btcpowupdate.org
mircea_popescu: lel
phf: jeez, i like how they are not even trying. a bootstrap template one pager and a link to "bitcointalk thread"
mircea_popescu: hey, it works for the "domain name real estate" "investors" !!
asciilifeform: http://archive.is/NAyGm << linked from somewhere in this lul
shinohai remembers the lukejr lulz
BingoBoingo: Which lulz, there are many with said rat
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/03/armed-guard-at-german-grocer-kills-man-in-saint-louis/ << Qntra - Armed Guard At German Grocer Kills Man In Saint Louis
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629232 << trbi, with the fixed-length-everythings, needs ~no fancy indexer at all. it's for a hypothetical sane-trb.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-20 00:42 mod6: So I'll be getting into the thick of that very soon. Lot to do to get trb-i going.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629256 << even reiser is almost certainly waste of time, general-purpose fs is very sharply the opposite of what we want, they are all optimized for mutability (can delete/rename/resize/etc) and fast reads at the expense of slow entity creation, as well as carrying out silent rebalances/defrags/etc.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-20 00:58 mircea_popescu: also, we are not at wall : we saw ext4 ; did not see ext2 ; did not see reiserfs.
mircea_popescu: you might well be right. i still wanna see them. there is no possibility to waste time by looking around.
asciilifeform: hey general-purpose fs are still useful for... general-purpose life. nobody cancelled'em
BingoBoingo: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=7007
asciilifeform: i'd enjoy reading honest benchmarks for 1st time in lfie
asciilifeform: *life
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629264 << how's that meant to work ? classical fat32 has no such animal as a symlink, for instance.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-20 01:00 mircea_popescu: we ~might~ even wish to see fat32/
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629270 << the magical powerz of low expectations!111☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-20 01:03 mircea_popescu: i don't recall being as pissed off with fat32 at any point throughout the 90s as i've regularly been hence.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform, however, remembers 'defragging.' and lost clusters. and various 'pleasures.'
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629267 << Framedragger did anybody ever in fact reverse-engineer microshit's 'exfat' ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-20 01:02 Framedragger: mircea_popescu: oof, max fat32 size is 4gb, with a maximum of (to the tune of) hundreds of millions of files (less than 1bn); there's also exFAT of course, etc., but eugh
asciilifeform: last i recall, nobody had.
mircea_popescu: not afaik
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629271 << i actually like tapes, and wish that they were readily available today in useful sizes☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-20 01:04 Framedragger: sure. my internal alfatron says "may as well test for tape backup storage system viability" though; surely it's inefficient to test *all* things in a domain that one is not optimistic to begin with. but i see your rationale of course
asciilifeform: (4GB 4mm tape is not today price-competitive, much less time-is-money-competitive, with dvd-r)
asciilifeform: and so my tape decks, once princely , gather dust.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: iirc there are reverse-engineered implementations, yes, but whether they're any good is another q
asciilifeform: Framedragger: better q imho would be - whether there is anything to be learned from these.
Framedragger: https://github.com/relan/exfat ftr, e.g.
Framedragger: yeah sure (and probably notrly)
asciilifeform: ( i don't recall, in my entire working life, cribbing a useful, solid piece of technical knowhow from microshit. )
mircea_popescu: directx.
Framedragger: (https://github.com/relan/exfat/blob/master/libexfat/exfatfs.h#L40 e.g.)
phf: a4 sized qr codes and sheet scanners
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: directx is simply a fruit of collusion with the gpu vendors, i see nothing innovative about it
mircea_popescu: and the original dos.
asciilifeform: the original dos was not created by microshit.
mircea_popescu: you didn';t say "innovative"
mircea_popescu: you said the fucking opposite.
asciilifeform: 'useful, solid'
mircea_popescu: knowhow. yes. directx.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: you didn't feel any appreciation while reverse engineering rootkits targetting NT kernel? :) just curious
Framedragger: i mean, towards NT kernel. boy i should recline now
asciilifeform: Framedragger: 99+% of the malware samples i have ever laid hands on, were complete snoar
asciilifeform: build in microshit vs, even. (this includes usg's, as was well laid out for exhibit in the latest dump)
asciilifeform: *built in microshit
Framedragger: yeahok.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629306 << i know a d00d who paid with own money to renovate... flat he was living in. five figs (usd) even.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-20 03:34 ben_vulpes: asks the guy who developed a recreational habit of fixing other people's toilets in the most retarded corner of south america...
asciilifeform: it made a perverse sense, 'yes someone else will get to eat it, eventually, but moving to a flat that already has all of this, will cost MORE , and forever'
mircea_popescu: i dun see the problem, i do this with some regularity. get the landlord to eat > then your actual residual post amortisation you're golden.
asciilifeform: landlord ate none of the cost, this is sop for peon housing
asciilifeform: (peon is lucky to even get permission to repaint a wall)
mircea_popescu: hahaha gtfo.
mircea_popescu: wtf permission, what is this bs.
mircea_popescu: o, wait, you have "corporation" landlords over there donntcha.
asciilifeform: some people do
asciilifeform: in the case in question, it was a human one
asciilifeform: (90yo who owns a few dozen properties of various descriptions)
mircea_popescu: so then, negotiate a deal, what.
asciilifeform: i wasn't at their negotiation table, have nfi how it went.
asciilifeform: (but can guess. peons have ~0 negotiating leverage.)
mircea_popescu: i've yet to meet someone who lets as a living, even if part time, who wouldn't kill for a good tenant.
asciilifeform: it's more or less the definition of peonage.
asciilifeform: typically 'good tenant' is one who pays on time, and asks for repairs ~never.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform peons don't enter into it. the sort of captives in the consolidated shit of their own head who ask for a "solid, useful knowhow item" and then IMMEDIATELY retort "it isn't innovative" when such is presented, however... those doods have problems.
mircea_popescu: depends. irl good tenant is one who doesn't damage the property more than what he pays in rent.
mircea_popescu: surprisingly rare a class, for some reason.
asciilifeform: this is so.
trinque: meatwot folks that own an apartment building have told horrific stories
trinque: human shit on the walls in more than a few cases
mircea_popescu: erryone has a few.
asciilifeform: but also, as i learned experimentally, one that doesn't create 'work' for the owner. for instance, i went to a great many folx who were letting out houses, and they wouldn't hear of 'install dishwasher', even when offered 100% of the (not especially frightening) cost of this mod.
mircea_popescu: well yeah, it's all in there in de "damage property", a very general understanding of "shit that makes my economic position worse"
asciilifeform: they dun want to do 'work'. 'this hovel was good enough for the others, it oughta be good enough for you, if you won't take it there are 25 others who will'
mircea_popescu: lol where the fuck are these 25 others ?
mircea_popescu: i dunno there exista a place inthis world with 90% occupation. maybe beijing.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sometimes they showed up almost immediately ! as in, next day i call and 'oops sorry it was already snapped'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: HOUSES have ~100% occupation, where i live.
mircea_popescu: thishappens sometimes even in 10% occupied real estate cases.
asciilifeform: (flats - not.)
mircea_popescu: ugh. weren't we discussing rents ? wtf already.
asciilifeform: rental houses.
asciilifeform: understand, i shop in a market where the availability is ~0.
mircea_popescu: um.
mircea_popescu: i think the only place where you can properly speaking rent a house is ~europe
asciilifeform: the flats folx have the other problem: typically the landlord is a corp and operates 'by 3ring binder'
asciilifeform: (and quite certainly won't do mods, even if entire cost is covered)
mircea_popescu: which cycles us right back to the earlier mmmkay.
mircea_popescu is out of this.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu leases entire city blocks and probably operates in somewhat different planet.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629499 << as i understand 'innovative' is a barf trigger word for mircea_popescu , but i don't know of a more appropriate word. if q is re 'what useful things did you lift from microshit', and someone suggests 'fat16', i can only answer 'it was not innovation, did not originate from the loins of microshit.'☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-20 17:21 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform peons don't enter into it. the sort of captives in the consolidated shit of their own head who ask for a "solid, useful knowhow item" and then IMMEDIATELY retort "it isn't innovative" when such is presented, however... those doods have problems.
mircea_popescu: a house technially is a city block. though they're generally called lots because not usually right in city. but anyway.
mircea_popescu: who cares where it came from ? you did lift from them eh.
mircea_popescu: or what, who else had the item.
asciilifeform: pcdos, for instance.
mircea_popescu: pdos had directx?
asciilifeform: fat16 !
mircea_popescu: sigh.
asciilifeform: directx is not even A TECHNOLOGY, it's a proprietary microshit api
asciilifeform: how would one go about lifting it ?
mircea_popescu: look, turn it how you will. you got a serious hole in your brain. dun wanna fix it, fine, but that dun mean you don't have it. you do.
asciilifeform: what useful piece can i cut out, and use outside of microshitistan ?
mircea_popescu: not a matter of "oh, mp has allergies" ; not a matter of "check me out, i invented rhetorics and also i'm so smooth ima strawman all over! fat16!11" ; not a matter of anything else, there's no way out of it.
asciilifeform: i'd genuinely like to know what mircea_popescu takes issue with in this thread
mircea_popescu: 1. you asked for an item by stated criteria, were provided the item, pretended the item fails a criterion that is actually the opposite of your stated criteria ; 2. when confronted with your ridiculous misbehaviour, you attempted to replace the item with a different item and show you can defeat the different item.
mircea_popescu: there's more, but a coupla suffice.
asciilifeform: i stand by the statement: nothing which is original in microshitistan, is any good; and any which is good in microshitistan, is not the least bit original.
mircea_popescu: i suppose we can add 3, "once 1 and 2 are on the table, take refuge in contradictory schemes". there is no such thing as original technology. for something to be a technology it must be unoriginal. original shit is called literature.
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu wants to inhabit a mental universe where 'there is no such thing as original technology' and xerox parc circa 1970s is exactly same thing as microshit today -- i can't possibly stop him.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin is morerover a fine example in this vein. it's pretty fucking original.
phf: "How come he doesn't know it? Because he's got flies in his eyes. How can he see he's got flies in his eyes if he's got flies in his eyes?"
mircea_popescu: and it's original throughout. check out those novel data structures~!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform give an example of this original technology and i'll just say "no pcdos" at it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: introducing the nonsensical 'original throughout' device ( nobody else, incl asciilifeform , had ) does not help mircea_popescu's argument
mircea_popescu: interestinf approach, but twas merely an example, not an argument as such.
mircea_popescu: i'm not saying "x is y because bitcoin" i'm saying "x is y and btw, check out bitcoin lulz."
trinque: gotta be able to admit one's political bias plainly, or it warps like so. "microshit is evil therefore I will ignore their output" is not the same as "factually they never once built a thing"
mircea_popescu: he has a point in that they leveraged horizonals in the market to get data.
mircea_popescu: but they did fucking get it, and used it, and for a decade they owned gfx.
mircea_popescu: course opengl also owned it the next decade, and did even less with it.
asciilifeform: trinque: funnily enough, i spend a good chunk of my waking hours 'not ignoring' microshit's output, i earn bread by juggling microshitiana (dealing with, from various directions, malware)
trinque: yeah so you hate it even more then
trinque: lol
trinque: "I have to stare into this thing's asshole 8 hours a day"
mircea_popescu: other part of the problem is that it's too large a corp. their kernel ppl and their directx people were pretty much as related as samsung and apple.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/03/relics-of-american-great-again-found-in-mexico/ << Qntra - Relics Of American "Great Again" Found In Mexico
asciilifeform: trinque: understand, i would much ~like~ to find something stimulating, inside that arse
mircea_popescu: o shait, invasion time BingoBoingo ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the problem is they never got lucky with that hole.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Maybe. Serious intl incident material!
mircea_popescu would like to see a us-mexico war v3 ? v4 ?
mircea_popescu: good to periodically fight the same neighbour, keeps the spirit stimulated.
mircea_popescu: teh russians know.
trinque: not much airpower there, but probably amply more "asymmetric warfare" inclination
mircea_popescu: trinque the mexican "deep state" has been living in this situation where beheaded chief of police weekly.
mircea_popescu: they're a lot tougher than the us counterparts by now.
trinque: aha, meanwhile americans wilt when a building comes down
BingoBoingo thinks v3, but unsure. Would be v4 if Zimmermann telegram, but if Zimmermann telegram would have moved Mexico to act, American might instead be looking towards The Great Already
mircea_popescu: im sure they'll send the late night circuit comedians. what could anyone do to that.
mircea_popescu: the charge of the sarah silverman brigade.
asciilifeform: mexican-war-with-usa makes approx as much sense as pirate war against spanish crown
mircea_popescu: hey, ~same as afghanistan but closer. save on fuel, be green.
mircea_popescu: planet will thankya.
BingoBoingo: !~bash3
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Error: "bash3" is not a valid command.
asciilifeform: (what'd make the pirates turn into a navy ? and whattodo after victory, and there are no moar galleons to take gold off?)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you can swear allegiance to the flag of the united nationx of mexico just as well. can even save the original two words of the whole signage
trinque: ah I could see the same thing as turkey and EU with mexico down the road
mircea_popescu: trinque mexico's no turkey though.
trinque: they get flooded with venezuelans or w/e
trinque: threaten to send 'em over
mircea_popescu: ah totally.
mircea_popescu: anyway. typically pirate war against the crown wants you know, the fortress of martinique. and gibraltar.
asciilifeform: aha!
mircea_popescu: kinda ~same as "fight for freedom" of strategically placed nothings.
mircea_popescu: taiwan, what have you
asciilifeform: i can entirely see mexicans taking a specific-something.
mircea_popescu: yeah, gate to texas, gate to cali, that sorta thing. hook the white girl's knees spread nice and wide, what.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629328 << these are surprisingly great 'cpu for the dollar', because ~severely~ underpriced , even for a junk market item : they're ~entirely worthless to mactards who would 'use as printed on the box', because last 7 or so crapple os versions will refuse to run on it. but potentially very valuable for, e.g., bsd user.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-20 03:45 ben_vulpes: no, specifically the macintosh ppc g5's
trinque: they run openbsd great
mircea_popescu: ah that's a pretty great point huh.
mircea_popescu: nice alternative to the linux-on-amd freezeout
asciilifeform: and unlike, e.g., most sun boxes, they have normal 'earthling' pci, and reasonably obtainable sdram.
trinque: people are selling the minis like they're worth their weight in trash
asciilifeform: trinque: there was a g5 'mini' ?!
trinque: no, g4
asciilifeform: aah
trinque: but 10 of them in a stack beats "containers"
asciilifeform: g4 was not impressive imho, no 64bitness.
asciilifeform: you're stuck with 4GB.
asciilifeform: i threw out my g4s.
trinque: I've found uses for them, but also have several of the g5 towers and the imac g5
mircea_popescu: can be a router or w/e
trinque: aha
trinque: mail, whatever
trinque: doesn't need gigs of ram and 64bit
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no GBe -- not , imho, any kind of router.
mircea_popescu: ah there is that.
asciilifeform: trinque: for 'microscopic task but needs own box', i prefer something more like pogo, which is fanless, solidstate, and zero-maintenance. vs ancient clunking monster , howling like vacuum cleaner and filled with dying mechanical hdds
mircea_popescu: course depends what you have installed. plenty of places on mbit cable, no fiber, no plans to ever fiber.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: even there, 0 reason for lan to be anything but GB
mircea_popescu: but yes, fanless pogo has some major mojo
trinque: so lan sits on gigabit switch
trinque: but cable modem is not >100, not nearly
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, 1 reason : you got a g4 lol
trinque: also what's this "one router"
mircea_popescu: trinque i got some 100 MBps pipes, but yeah, can't just pop a random 50 whatever from radio shack on me
mircea_popescu: em*
trinque: my modem's 300 but try getting a connection like that in the tx burbs
trinque: moving downtown though, so maybe I can get something a little less barbaric
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629345 << eventually happens to everything. as per, even, the 'regression to mean' thread.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-20 03:49 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it occurs to me, btw, that the scam whereby people who were holding jobs shares were converted to cook shares is one of the cruelest things in nature.
trinque: asciilifeform: pointedly they lack the "management engine" shit put in later CPUs
trinque: or giant honking EFI
asciilifeform: trinque: my 6502 also lacks 'management engine'
trinque: oh, same thing eh?
asciilifeform: but you can in fact get 64bit machines with 0 blobolade.
asciilifeform: the very same alphas, for instance.
trinque: or... g5
asciilifeform: the (classical, not the rebranded x86 idiocy) sgi ones, also
asciilifeform: the g5.
asciilifeform: the g4 however is approx as useful as old p3.
asciilifeform: ( do you pick up p3 when someone throws out ? i -- no longer do )
trinque: runs (for example) a test server for deedbot just fine
asciilifeform: i'm sure it does
trinque: and burn minimal power
trinque: yes, not going to phuctor on it
asciilifeform: but not only do i actually pay per kWatt/hr here (in summer time : TWICE: again to remove the waste heat!) and have quite limited space, but there are only so many p3 you can hang off ups.
trinque: but will perform various tasks of a household
asciilifeform: and n+1st ups is several $k usd.
trinque: holy shit I just said
trinque: 32W
trinque: idle
asciilifeform: trinque: which box was this
trinque: the mini g4
asciilifeform: aah
trinque: they cron-inate and whatnot
asciilifeform puts on list of 'to not leave in dumpster, if seen in one'
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: it's a wonder you don't drive a ford pickup
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'd own a dump truck with a crane -- if had where to keep it.
mircea_popescu: well... move to texas. you can get crane garage there
asciilifeform: one of these days i must go there.
asciilifeform: ( it is, for instance, where the pet was born. )
trinque: neato
trinque: I have a feeling you'd tolerate the people a bit moar than DC
asciilifeform: probably.
mircea_popescu: either that or get shot.
asciilifeform: i can get shot for free here!111
mircea_popescu: not the same thing if white man does it.
asciilifeform: tru, classier. perhaps i can be shot in a proper saloon, next to a spittoon.
mircea_popescu: i first read "next to a stripper"
mircea_popescu: then i noticed it didnt say stripper.
mircea_popescu: why not!
asciilifeform: also not a bad place!
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7C9A79279C6DD69B5BAEA5FD7DBC0347F4206583C96398C75146635ED3D1D446 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1646...2357 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '160.80.1.232 (ssh-rsa key from 160.80.1.232 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ipsc2.ccda.uniroma2.it. IT RM 62)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7C9A79279C6DD69B5BAEA5FD7DBC0347F4206583C96398C75146635ED3D1D446 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1728...7809 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '160.80.1.232 (ssh-rsa key from 160.80.1.232 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ipsc2.ccda.uniroma2.it. IT RM 62)
mircea_popescu tries for a few minutes in vain to turn the strange habit of porn actors of spitting into gaping assholes into some kind of a spittoon joke, gives up
mircea_popescu: i'm losing my edge!
asciilifeform: !$ ssh 160.80.1.232
scriba: ssh banner of 160.80.1.232 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-9
asciilifeform: quite unrelatedly, asciilifeform went through own and relatives' dwellings with geiger counter and turned up one of those 'barbaric' radium-dialed clocks (zinc sulphide long ago decayed, so no light, but mighty gamma.)
asciilifeform: and this reminded me, did mircea_popescu ever write a piece re the 'radium girls' ? the ones that licked the brushes and rotted. they are brought up as darlings of the 'unions' era, 'wurker's rights', etc. but in actuality they not only licked the brushes but painted own lips, nails, jewelry, etc.
mircea_popescu: i thnk i must've.
asciilifeform: can haz link ?
mircea_popescu: also the dork selling "Radium wateR"
mircea_popescu: lessee
Framedragger: don't forget radium "shines at night!" toothpaste
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2010/corporatiile-si-responsabilitatea/#selection-33.0-33.93 << ro as it turns out.
asciilifeform: neato, ty midnightmagic
asciilifeform: rrr
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu
asciilifeform thinks the default behaviour of 'tab complete' in this irctron is quite ridiculous
mircea_popescu: alphabetic order neh ?
mircea_popescu: should it count your references ?
asciilifeform: imho sanity would be to sort by lines-in-past-N-minute
mircea_popescu: count references in scrollback ?
asciilifeform: with exponential decay.
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: tbh, the intensive referential way we use irc is entirely... original
mircea_popescu: never before in the history of this tech has a trilema existed
asciilifeform: afaik.
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2017/03/20/aapl-stock-fraud-cca-2011/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - AAPL stock fraud cca. 2011
shinohai: White supremacists are getting darker these days: http://archive.is/cYb2B
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, the state of casual gaming is completely fucked up. so other than utter throwaways, stuff that looks like someone's undegrad project, the ~entire market of ipad-likes (stuff that works in the browser, or else via a "light" client for windows/mac, or else as a ipad/android etc app) is wholly like this :
mircea_popescu: 1. the company (say r2games, there's a few but identical entirely) hires out a bunch of cubical drones, has them churn out a "game" to 3-ring binder spec. you prolly know the shit, stamina-constellations-etc.
mircea_popescu: there's major reuse, the "voices" of characters in "different" games often end up the same digital asset etc.
mircea_popescu: 2. the "social media platform" (say, g2arcade, there's a bunch but identical entirely) make a whitelabel with the company, pushes the game on "its" users (the catch being that they try to get the user to use their "accounts" rather than the company's -- and there's a lot of utterly corporate-like entrenchment around this topic.)
mircea_popescu: 3. the "payment platform" (all of these work on micropayments, obv) is a wrapper style thing (say, paymentwall, but there's at least 500 entirely identical items vying for a pie $lice with absolutely no distinction whatsoever) processes cards and also links to a pile of... i don'\t even know what these are. looks a lot like the silver age of porn really, early 2000s, where the various paysites kept trying to push each other.
mircea_popescu: so gtarcade -> r2games -> paymentwall -> paypal/qiwiwallet/unipin wallet/webmoney/indomog/cherry credits/mycard/mol (money online -- fucking george constanza lives i swear) and so on and so forth.
mircea_popescu: this is the "digital economy".
mircea_popescu: it's literally like watching flies fuck.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was 'casual came' at any point -- in its ~commercial~ ( vs tetrises, alexey pajitnov ) phase of life -- ever anything other than this ?
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: "the jerseys" "was located"
mircea_popescu: yes. at some glorious point in the 90s it was ~same as a bar. you went with your friends to a dedicated bit of real estate.
mircea_popescu: !~google "book of the gord"
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Acts of Gord : Love the Gord , Fear the Gord: <http://www.actsofgord.com/>; Acts of Gord - The Book of Annoyances: <http://www.actsofgord.com/Annoy/>; Acts of Gord - The Book of Apocalypse: <http://www.actsofgord.com/apocalypse/>
mircea_popescu: ^ rather typical exponent.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: ty fxd
asciilifeform: dunno that it makes sense to deal with coin arcades and 'konsoomer'-portable gamez, as same animal
mircea_popescu: and why not ?
asciilifeform: arcades were a social activity, only partially about the game itself.
mircea_popescu: the missing link is the attempted "ipad-powered restaurant" by that idiot from consumer computing, that we discussed here.
mircea_popescu: these are EXACTLY the same thing ; the arcade and the ipad exist because ameritards exist because oil was a thing and pittsburg was a thinbg before that etc.
mircea_popescu: it's like disco but for the 90s.
mircea_popescu: no longer looking to get laid, but still the same herbivore beasts.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no but see ... this crap is also .. .only partially about the game itself. they... got accounts!1
mircea_popescu: \wouldn't you like to link your facebook profile ? for security ? and etc ?
trinque hears the gushing of printed money into the abyss
asciilifeform: i actually have ~0 idea what specifically supports the 'mainstream' commercial existence of the ipad. (as in the old ebay thread with mircea_popescu , it turns out that asciilifeform's uses for various items are often quite nonstandard )
trinque: mine serves to play a ported Riven at the moment, otherwise sits at bottom of a drawer
trinque: might be the only actual gaming use for such a thing, the point and click adventure games
trinque: originally released in 1997 btw
asciilifeform: i haven't met a likable touchpad game, yet
asciilifeform: in just about every case 'i wish i had a mouse, why is my cursor finger-sized'
trinque: well, those descended-from-hypercard games are basically tap all over the place, touch works fine
mircea_popescu: ^
asciilifeform: yeah but they were generally made for mouse.
asciilifeform: i tried once to play various 'scummvm' classics on a patched ipad, it was blergh
mircea_popescu: there's browser versions for most if not all of them
asciilifeform: 'i want to click on the pirate, not the beer mug'
mircea_popescu: anyway, if you're curious, visit the offerings of the mentioned. "league of angels" "battle for kingdom" "throne of throne" "legend of story" they've a few hundred of such field-appropriate thesaurus permutations.
mircea_popescu: none of them have clickable blocks smaller than about a child's fist anyway.
trinque: the malinvestment called zynga caused it, more or less
asciilifeform: 'extruded product'
asciilifeform: quite like american 'food', 'films'...
mircea_popescu: trinque not an expert other than by need ; but i suspect zynga is a different strand. these are the azn "fantasy" offerings, wanna-be d2 and h3, by the looks of them.
mircea_popescu: and they do try to be all respectable, there's always a "arrow to the knee" reference and so. entirely chinese type of idiocy.
mircea_popescu: whereas the zynga stuff is more in the vein of eve and such things, clearly made by and for project managers.
trinque: the "social media 'gaming'" thing though, was large part them. many of their games bolted directly to facebook, i.e. inside the thing
ben_vulpes: the moo3 rewrite for touchscreen isn't a...bad...rewrite...
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/BiywN << obligatory.
ben_vulpes: touchscreens are just woefully inadequate devices for complexity mgmt.
mircea_popescu: trinque yeah. there's one actually ingenious strand, that somewhat straddles the zynga-likes and the r2-likes : the eggers, you know those ?
trinque: then it was race to the bottom in terms of easiest yes, extruded product, to bolt to facebook
trinque: I do not
mircea_popescu: the fundamental mechanic being that you have animals which you gotta mate and then raise the eggs and you can get varying stuff out of the eggs and etc.
shinohai: No surprise the cattle wish to play Farmville
trinque: oh yeah, gets women to go "oh cute" for 5min
mircea_popescu: see, the zinga/eve/fb games are all timers, basically. clicjk here to start a timer is the whole proposition.
ben_vulpes: i'm in the habit of installing gb/gba emulators on my friends ipnohes
trinque: controls are butts
ben_vulpes: apple borks the thing remotely within a month
ben_vulpes: every time
mircea_popescu: whereas the r2 games are "stamina" games. ie, basic dungeon costs 6 and "elite dungeon" (whatever) costs 12 and you have 100 or 200 and get 12 a minute.
ben_vulpes: nevertheless, the response is "holy fuck, i haven't had this much fun playing games on my phone...ever!"
trinque: I played through wizards and warriors on ipnoje
ben_vulpes: "yeah, and now how pissed are you at apple?"
mircea_popescu: what is gb ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: at one point (the last time asciilifeform gave half a shit, 2010 or so) it was considered ~impossible to get an emulator of whatever kind, past the censors
Framedragger: correlate gameplay to 'personality traits' => political 'lifestyles' (bernays and all modern 'voter-shaping' organizations) => sell data => $?
trinque: mircea_popescu: gameboy
mircea_popescu: oh oh.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: well you don't go through the censors obvs
mircea_popescu never got into that.
ben_vulpes: "i'm going to put a fun thing on your phone. apple will break it within the month, because they're assholes."
mircea_popescu: Framedragger i suppose that's what they tell "investor" suckers to get them to pay out.
ben_vulpes: it's an educational project, asciilifeform .
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: how would crapple break a properly jailbroken box ?
asciilifeform: in every case it is the luser who breaks (by 'ooh i'ma UPDATE!111')
mircea_popescu: truth be told ~most of this crap is paid for by consumer-"investors" rather than by their kids spending $2 to "recharge"
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: users don't get a choice any more, not really
ben_vulpes: also these devices are not properly jailbroken
trinque: there's an emulator snuck through apple approval processes every now and then
mircea_popescu: it's not even very clear they wish to play. plenty are quite happy watching other dudes play and stream it live.
ben_vulpes: "here's a taste of life as curated by the competent, aren't you mad at the fake lifestyle you've been fed?"
phf: you can install scummvm on an ipad without jailbreaking
mircea_popescu: which incidentally reminds me of how poor kids "played" in the 90s too.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: aaah 'soft' jailbreak, was it, 'till next reboot'
ben_vulpes: not eve, just 'sideload'
ben_vulpes: not even*
asciilifeform: phf: that must be new/recent
phf: it was always the case. you deploye whatever custom app through standard xcode/blah infrastructure. you can't do it as a casual of course
asciilifeform: phf: ah those.
asciilifeform: iirc (again when i last had a crapple dev acct) there was a limit, was it, 100 (?) boxes of 'sideload' per acct.
asciilifeform: so was never a mass thing.
asciilifeform: and the signature would be good for a few wks at most.
ben_vulpes: you can self-sign trivially these days.
ben_vulpes: what does it take to actually xcode these days? 100us/yr still?
asciilifeform: 0idea
asciilifeform: i thought ben_vulpes was the iphonist
ben_vulpes: 'iphonist' === 'click the ok and fix issue button'
asciilifeform: back in ye olden days, it was 100.
mircea_popescu: i think it's 50 now
phf: relatedly, aquaria is a neat action adventure for ipad. i think that's the only ipad game i actually enjoyed, though it's not particularly creative. swim around enjoy pretty art
mircea_popescu despises "games" without mechanics.
ben_vulpes: upstack, trinque asciilifeform y'figure the g5's will only take a bsd? i've got a pile of links for 'linux on g5', but have yet to start sucking the spittoon down. would rather know if actually impossible up front.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: iirc trinque is the go-to man re g5.
asciilifeform: and possibly BingoBoingo .
asciilifeform: i don't even presently have 1.
ben_vulpes: no reason one couldn't compile a kernel for it, right?
asciilifeform: could!
ben_vulpes halfway looking forward to the next gentoo quest
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629753 << the world of 'neuro-typical' folx who have 'no theorems to prove', and nothing with which to legitimately to busy themselves, is ugly indeed. these people oughta be occupied with raising ~actual~ chickens etc.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-20 21:06 mircea_popescu: the fundamental mechanic being that you have animals which you gotta mate and then raise the eggs and you can get varying stuff out of the eggs and etc.
ben_vulpes: breeding chickens is a thing with which to legitimately busy oneself.
phf: both trinque and bingoboingo are bsd people, so that's probably why. i ran linux on g3-g5 2000-2010
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: well yes!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: thread was re 'simulated chicken farmings'
ben_vulpes: oh oh
ben_vulpes: well more likely they have not the land with which.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: imho it is a waste, these folx could quite enjoy life as ~actual~ chicken handlers
ben_vulpes: even plants likely beyond those folks.
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this one is a particular gem, conceptually, in the vein of that romanian "s-o-ntilnit prostu' cu hotu'" (ie, "the thief and the idiot met", shorthand for a certain sort of narrow horizon happiness). ie, "oh, this egg takes EIGHT hours to hatch! that one 24!! it's so much better!!11
mircea_popescu: how to sell pe
mircea_popescu: ople on the notion of hanging around waiting for timers.
trinque: ben_vulpes: putting a gentoo on one would not be a waste of time
mircea_popescu: very VERY anthropologically interesting.
asciilifeform: trinque: consider publishing a recipe
trinque: I haven't one, is why
asciilifeform: aah
trinque: my gentoos are x86-64
trinque: not that it should be terribly difficult once you figure out launching whichever bootloader from openfirmware, iirc yaboot
asciilifeform: trinque: all of the iron is documented/driverized by nao ?
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform has nfi )
ben_vulpes: kinda the working theory, we'll see how it holds up in battle.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, they COULD NOT enjoy life as chicken handlers, because they'd do dumb shit. there's a reason situation with 1k droolers with chicken coop 20 chickens each turned into 1 chicken farm, 20k chickens, designed by 1, ran by 10, and 989 droolers on ipads waiting for the counter to count down.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i thought the reason was petro->chickenfeed conversion and economics of scale.
mircea_popescu: i do not believe so.
mircea_popescu: the reason is the failure of the workforce to keep up with the complexity of scientifico-technical world.
mircea_popescu: note that in any industry, it is LABOR that is the killer cost, not MATERIALS.
mircea_popescu: this imo disposes of the dispute.
asciilifeform: i am still thinking about the 'radium girls' mircea_popescu . for some reason most 'left'-flavoured historians don't mention the fact that they were paid 2-3x the market rate for 'generic unskilled gurl'
asciilifeform: and did quite easy work. what, not 1 of them wondered 'why' ?
mircea_popescu: "where can i find a guy who is safe to work in a datacenter ?" "where 1% of the 1% gather", doublespoken as "for 100k a year".
asciilifeform: the radium girl was exactly mircea_popescu's 'twerker': 'value extracted from marginal'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they all wondered and they all had an answer. guess the answerr ?
asciilifeform: 'because oooh hey i need to paint my lips again'
mircea_popescu: nah. "i'm totally worth it ; because i'm just that good ; because i'm special ; because i'm too dumb to realise how trite i am."
asciilifeform: aaaah.
trinque: she found the one trick they don't wnat you to know
mircea_popescu: look at all the "bitcoin ceos". i ask them this... and they think... i insulted them.
mircea_popescu: trinque found it, licked it.
mircea_popescu: chucka sleeps warm in the taiga tonight.
mircea_popescu: and tomorrow -- it's jawtime!
asciilifeform: btw i recently heard that the 'last radium gurl' died in 2014. apparently there are folx who are unkillable even by it.
mircea_popescu: radiation is noxious not toxic. it culls the herd, doesn't end it.
asciilifeform: she could've been valuable experimental subject for the radioprotectant pharama folx (never heard of'em ? subj went out of style, at least publicly, in 1970s afaik)
asciilifeform: *pharma
mircea_popescu: in fact, there's quite nothing in chemistry like radiation. all poisons eventually kill everyone as you increase the dosage. even water. radiation however...
asciilifeform: dunno that the 'hormesis' hypothesis ever panned out
asciilifeform: in either direction
mircea_popescu: sure it did. most therapy is based on toxic agents.
mircea_popescu: paracetamol extends your life plenty.
asciilifeform: no, specifically 'radiation hormesis'
mircea_popescu: oh that, definitely not.
mircea_popescu: in some cancers, but even then dubious as all hell.
asciilifeform: as in 'creatures evolved with a detectable background, they NEED it' or, in weaker form, 'it does 0 to them'
mircea_popescu: nobody needs it. then again, background radiation does ~0, give or take a few cancers
asciilifeform: what even counts as 'background'. fun exercise is to take ordinary geiger and try in a room with -- then without -- people.
asciilifeform: notice the difference.
mircea_popescu: then - without adobe brick.
asciilifeform: Sr-90 in bones.
asciilifeform: (~everyone born after '45)
mircea_popescu: yeah, this is a good point, huh.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: cinderblock (usa) is a champ. followed by 'fancy' tiles (granite, various)
mircea_popescu: "they don't make 'em like they used to" "well, they didn't use to have to use sr-90 / ca-40 mix!"
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: recall the thread re the cathedral roofs ?
asciilifeform: ( http://btcbase.org/log/2015-05-01#1117527 , possibly elsewhere )☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-05-01 03:02 asciilifeform: re: how, famously, semiconductor folks used to buy up medieval lead roofs from cathedrals, etc. to get low-rad material
mircea_popescu: cinderblock ie, "wouldn't you like to lvie in a hut made of concentrated furnace waste" ?
asciilifeform: notably nobody ever gets asked 'wouldja like to...'
asciilifeform: the waste -- WILL be used. to build.
asciilifeform: and plebes -- will inhabit.
asciilifeform: ( most americans live in cardboard dwellings. but they work, shop, idle about, in cinderblock walls. )
asciilifeform: ditto blocks of flats.
asciilifeform: (typically outside wall -- pressed ash, complete with thorium, yes)
trinque: I can't think of any better use for that.
trinque: lol
ben_vulpes: likelihood of earthquakes makes for robust buildings where i live
trinque: thorium in the walls is right up there with mircea_popescu's http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629337☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-20 03:47 mircea_popescu: imagine if in a few years the actual fucking chunks of metal are the point of worship. "oh man, that's tech! who can make straight angles anymore!"
trinque: ben_vulpes: ah nothing will stand up through the next big san andreas fault slip
ben_vulpes: trinque: not usably, no
asciilifeform: to maybe revisit upstack, some folx 'marginal' and have very little to offer economically other than 'morts', 'willing to clear mines', 'clean melted reactor'
ben_vulpes: but won't kill quite so many folks this time.
asciilifeform: and who is to even say who they are. programmer, growing sclerotic in his chair, does he die more slowly than the radium girl ?
asciilifeform: or any less dead.
trinque: but I don't think the person's reasoning involves their uselessness
trinque: quite the contrary
trinque: what loser did you ever meet who was solidly convinced of the truth?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform on contemplation, the need-radiation organisms are probably bacteria. i imagine it figures heftily in the "endless adaptability of life on earth" for anything with short (subweek ?) cycles. from coprophyta to drosophila, most of the biomass.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: tricky, conflates 'individual needs' with 'species needs'
asciilifeform: quite elementarily 'species -- needs', otherwise ~0 mutation and ~0 adaptation to changing environs
mircea_popescu: myeah. though if it's proper to speak of you as individual, why exactly not of 1 bn worth of bacterial cells together ?
mircea_popescu: what, special because glued ?
mircea_popescu: (this is just a play on the fundamental fact that THERE IS NO MEANING IN NATURE. there's no such thing as "people" or "individual" or "life" or "god" etc irl. all psychogenic noise, the happenstance branches of your own process of organizing the exterior, unrelated to the exterior.)
asciilifeform: normally 'special' because 'specialized multi-cell organs', rather than simply 'glued'
mircea_popescu: orly.
asciilifeform: speaking strictly of the elementary diff b/w 'man and fungus'
mircea_popescu: shorthand merely.
asciilifeform: 0 to do with the psychiatric 'i'm speshul!' tho.
mircea_popescu: well, very little to do, let's say
mircea_popescu: naught besides the obvious "happens in a head".
asciilifeform: but does relate to the radiation thing, deinococcus radiodurans laughs at dose that's thermonuke every other living thing, but it very much helps that one deinococcus radiodurans is readily 'fungible', will substitute for any other in the dish.
asciilifeform: whereas if instead of dish you have a mouse, having such things as white cells, liver, other 'specialized parts', then considerably higher bar.
mircea_popescu: not EXACTLY. just, substitute to your standards.
asciilifeform: ( it is not even really correct to say 'one bacterium readily stands in for another', the dish does not live and die 'as group' )
mircea_popescu: myeah.
mircea_popescu: nor, for that matter, do you.
asciilifeform: aha -- interestingly, ~90% of a freshly dead mouse, or man, is 'alive'
mircea_popescu: ~no cells present at your birth are still there, seems to not bother your sense of identity.
asciilifeform: if it could walk away !
asciilifeform: some folx have finicky and easily bothered 'senses of identity'. not i
mircea_popescu: so then you know, arbitrarily defined cell collection is arbitrarily defined cell collection. hoop.
asciilifeform: (i'd quite happily walk into the mythical teleporter, for instance.)
trinque: I dunno what changes there distinct from you falling asleep in one spot, being moved 5ft over, and waking up
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: again, not 'arbitrary' for purpose of subj , put a bullet ( or dose of gamma, or whatnot ) through bacterial culture, and it closes the hole in a few hrs, and who could say there ever was a hole. but try same hole through mouse, or man.
mircea_popescu: depending on hole, ~same.
trinque: man does the same at scale
mircea_popescu: your girl got earrings yes ?
trinque: blow up berlin, later, no hole
mircea_popescu: also trinque's. gotta use large enough dishes.
asciilifeform: trinque: uniquely bad example, ww1+2 put a very permanent, i suspect, hole through 'euro civilization'
asciilifeform: that will not likely close, it'll be pushing up the flowers.
mircea_popescu: just like the mongols did.
asciilifeform: it'll close strictly in the 'hunchback will straighten in his grave' sense.
mircea_popescu: europe is eternal, unlike africa, americas etc. a lot like china, actually.
asciilifeform: well the geological europe aint going anywhere, no
trinque: asciilifeform: same sloshing of equilibrium when you kill those bacteria, depending on which you got
asciilifeform: 'отряд не заметил потери бойца' (tm) (r)
asciilifeform: somehow i suspect that when mircea_popescu gets into an airplane, he would like to find that it has triply- or higher- redundant avionics system, rather than 'oh it is redundant because if this one goes down, there will be another plane, with some other bloke in it, some other day, dun worry.'
mircea_popescu: lel
mircea_popescu: yes, mp so likes. but this is special pleading. mp also likes women, bacteria dishes, boys in this order.
asciilifeform: and yes, stalin famously uttered the sage wisdom, 'we ain't got any nonreplaceable people here'
asciilifeform: (which sadly was not so, he turned out... nonreplaceable, himself.)
mircea_popescu: nobody with a name is replaceable. this follows from the definitions.
asciilifeform: (i wonder if stevejobs ever claimed 'we ain't got any nonreplaceables')
mircea_popescu: "why did you put the label on the jar, mr rutherford ?" "to distinguish it from another jar."
mircea_popescu: "does that mean the other jar couldn't then replace this one ?" "that's EXACTLY what it means!"
asciilifeform: y'know, many folx name comps/autos/rifles/etc.
asciilifeform: still fungibles.
mircea_popescu: not according to the many folks.
asciilifeform: 'one time we got lost in the woods, and i was afraid that i would have to eat Tippy. then we were rescued, and i put Tippy back into the fridge, next to the other sandwiches.'
mircea_popescu: "i don't give a shit about rutherford's labels" dun reduce to "there were none" except in your own frame.
asciilifeform: (i forget, where)
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: sounds like bbs to me.
asciilifeform: somewhere. i found it on a chalkboard, in uni.
mircea_popescu: gosh golly, "pushing the envelope" was such a quaint affair in 1985.
shinohai: !~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/C6pH9/?raw=true
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes et al : g5 is valuable , on top of other reasons, to test 'bigendian' behaviours of various proggies.
asciilifeform: ( anyone here tried trb on bigendian ? i -- have not )
ben_vulpes: not yet
trinque tried, got segfault upon running the binary
trinque: didn't yet turn up why
trinque bbl
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/03/buttfunex-diversifying-bespoke-butt-fun-offerings-while-walking-away-from-btc/ << Qntra - Buttfunex Diversifying Bespoke "Butt Fun" Offerings While Walking Away From BTC
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> 'extruded product' << You know, the most consistently high quality American products of the day appear to be made by "Rubbermaid Commercial Products" (not to be confused with Rubbermaid Consumer Products), best trashcans!
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> and possibly BingoBoingo . << Interested in machines, but have not acquired herd of yet
ben_vulpes: shinohai: i saw that and laughed uproariously
ben_vulpes: WHERE ARE THE TRB TOKENS, EH?
ben_vulpes: dipsharts
shinohai: We can trade on forks that don't even exist yet!
ben_vulpes: yeah well everyone is wising up to the fact that bcc/bcu are rotten to the cire
ben_vulpes: core
ben_vulpes: finally
shinohai: Ba dumm tiss ( *rotten to the CORE*)
ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, is there a "nodictionaries" for russian?
ben_vulpes: !!up lulcoinz
deedbot: lulcoinz voiced for 30 minutes.
ben_vulpes: come ye with lultithes or lultidings?
shinohai: In more "We desperately want to be like trilema" news: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/bech32/demo/demo.html
lulcoinz: so do you guys think there will actually be a hard fork anytime soon?
lulcoinz: just praying nothing happens and BU along with segwit die
ben_vulpes: lulcoinz: why pray?
lulcoinz: well not really pray, "hope" would be more accurate
lulcoinz: i'm not the religious type, i'm more agnostic
ben_vulpes: (given how time, statists, and physics work, more phorks are nearly inevitable)
ben_vulpes: same q though, why "hope"?
lulcoinz: if there is a god, I don't think he gives a shit my (or anyone elses) prayers :)
ben_vulpes: no but seriously, why even bother hoping? run a trb node, insulate yourself from the retardation.
lulcoinz: my understanding is this group doesn't really support segwit or BU
lulcoinz: what is a trb node (sorry for my ignorance)
shinohai: lulcoinz: http://thebitcoin.foundation/trb-howto.html
lulcoinz: trb specifically (I know what a btc node is)
ben_vulpes: yeah ~right. segwit, aka "blockchains that don't validate" isn't a thing, and "bitcoin unlimited" wtf is that even
ben_vulpes: trb is "the real bitcoin"
ben_vulpes: the 0.5.3 codebase, dug out of the ground, polished and oiled into ~usability
asciilifeform: lulcoinz: it's the bitcoin you used in 2011. ~21,000 lines, and shrinking. ( and no 'headers-first' pseudo-verification idiocy, no leveldb, no p2sh, no githubism, no dns, no glibc, various other 'noes'. large collection of exquisite noes.)
shinohai: Just bitches and noes.
asciilifeform: no memory leaks, either (there's fragging, and it needs ~4GB to run, but will stay within the 4GB , indefinitely. )
lulcoinz: sounds good to me
lulcoinz: do you guys have good doc on getting into the wot etc
ben_vulpes: lulcoinz: consider running a fully-validated node
ben_vulpes: fully-validating
ben_vulpes: lulcoinz: http://deedbot.org/help.html
shinohai: See also: http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/
lulcoinz: awesome, thank you
ben_vulpes: ohey trinque i know you're busy but you can link to transactions in mimisbrunnr now: http://mimisbrunnr.cascadianhacker.com/blocks/456445#8ce75d1a1e4eaed104a752b92f328bd3d9bb29b66ba7384b0b9dc78319ec01a8
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629978 << wassat☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-20 23:17 ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, is there a "nodictionaries" for russian?
shinohai: neato ben_vulpes
ben_vulpes: shinohai: ty
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: interlinear latin translations
shinohai goes to work fiddling with jhvh1 to add this functionality
ben_vulpes: with user-adjustable derp knob
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: y'mean translit ?
asciilifeform: http://translit.net
asciilifeform: ^ www-based gizmo
asciilifeform: also midnight commander does it by default
asciilifeform: (if you view orc txt on a box set to ascii)
asciilifeform: and possibly elsewhere
ben_vulpes: whoa, midnight commander does *translation*?
ben_vulpes: i thought that was like a file browser or some such
asciilifeform: transliteration ben_vulpes
ben_vulpes: aaaaa
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it's much moar than 'file browser'
asciilifeform: on most days i spend ~= time in it, as in emacs.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: no, not 'translit', translate
asciilifeform: ( emacs -- and ~unfixably -- has few useful SINGLE-KEY commands )
ben_vulpes: oh come now, just switch over to evil-mode
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: ah i thought you wanted translit.
ben_vulpes: nono, trans/late/
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: when i say single-key -- i mean single motherfucking F-key.
asciilifeform: not 2, not 3, not 4.
asciilifeform: 1.
ben_vulpes: i kind of don't care how to pronounce the shit, reading far more important to me now
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: google has the only vaguely-usable one afaik.
ben_vulpes: once i have a grasp on sentences, grammar, i can probably get pronounciation with a few hours of teevee
shinohai also likes how mc lets you browse contents of tar.gz archives before unpacking ....
asciilifeform: shinohai: knows how to ftp, sftp, diff directories, 1,001 other things, and extensible.
asciilifeform: sorta like 'norton' was in ye olde msdos dayz.
asciilifeform: but for adults.
shinohai: It's far better than Norton commander was imho
asciilifeform: noshit
asciilifeform: extract for me, in ordinary shell, from a .rar inside a .tar.gz inside a .zip, JUST THE files that differ from a subdir inside a .zip in a certain .rar. and copy to a freshly stood up box with NOTHING but bash/sshd on it.
asciilifeform: in midnight that's roughly 8 seconds' work.
asciilifeform: and with 0 page-rufffling, rtfm, googlage.
ben_vulpes: only because you've already read the fucking manual!
asciilifeform: oh and then search for certain hex string in one of selfsame files.
asciilifeform: 2 seconds.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the 'rtfm' consists of reading three or so lines, saying which f-key does which.
ben_vulpes: > .rar inside a .tar.gz inside a .zip
ben_vulpes: no
ben_vulpes: i go yell at whoever sent me that garbage
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 'who sent the garbage' is, in my case, a malware author.
asciilifeform: go, yell.
ben_vulpes: well if you muck about in the dumps of civilization a rad suit is probably a good idea
asciilifeform: or, alternatively, a 20 y.o. archive from simtel.
asciilifeform: or myself 15 yrs ago.
asciilifeform: or.
asciilifeform: this is just an example, of 1 among 1,001 tools in the toolbox.
asciilifeform: (many of the ones on my box, are custom, sorta like folx are accustomed to doing in emacs)
asciilifeform: anyway it isn't a 'replacement for emacs', and serious emacsists do sometimes spit, 'i can do this from TRAMP' etc.
asciilifeform: good -- for them.