log☇︎
500+ entries in 0.241s
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-13#1955279 << systemd now, what, a couple million lines of C ? 'open source', i.e. shit that's not microsoft.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-11-30 21:09:33 mircea_popescu: meanwhile in lulz, http://thetarpit.org/2014/how-and-why-systemd-has-won#comment-182
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in lulz, http://thetarpit.org/2014/how-and-why-systemd-has-won#comment-182
mircea_popescu: http://thetarpit.org/2014/how-and-why-systemd-has-won << also, the "unix philosophy" link is dead. which, on meditation, is actually quite reasonable.
mircea_popescu now off to read spyked 's "how and why systemd has won" 2014 piece, kinda curious how 5 years aged it.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Anyways, while it's still available Devuan Jessie (systemd free Debian fork) seems the least shitty noobable distro of the day that hasn't linkrotted out of existence.
spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-06#1950016 <-- the big risk with the latter choice is that "they" (whoever owns ubuntu or w/e nowadays) will happily steer their os towards breaking the unix standard base (ls, cp, etc. system calls, ...) in the future. systemd lies on that line at least
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-29#1938903 << not all loss is disaster, of course not. but the same argument as contemplated in http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-29#1938852 is seen in "o look at linux, lost init, now systemd".
snsabot: Logged on 2017-12-19 18:23:09 trinque: "eudev" exists as an alternative to the systemd-udev. dunno what else the heathens stapled to systemd meanwhile
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/09/systemds-poettering-wants-to-break-linux-user-management-to-suspend-his-laptop/ << Qntra -- SystemD's Poettering Wants To Break Linux User Management To Suspend His Laptop
snsabot: 1 results for "http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html" in #trilema
mircea_popescu: !qs http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html
mircea_popescu is vaguely curious if a century hence there will be tears shed over "all the destruction". someone's gonna cry for systemd, what.
mircea_popescu: should show the parent. basically, the way this whole thing works is as follows : 1. linux is organized around "processes", which are a sort of agents let's say. they're listed in /proc/ ; 2. any process can spawn other processes, the whole menagerie's spawned by the kernel (which in systemd thing is also process 1, hence the whole http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1863880 thing ). 3. a process can close, or be terminated, ki ☝︎
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> today -- prolly they discuss which ver of systemd to use. << Nah, more likely they discuss how great the version they are ordered to use is
asciilifeform: today -- prolly they discuss which ver of systemd to use.
asciilifeform: y'mean systemd ?
asciilifeform: and incidentally ( achtung rk users ! ) if you are careless and allow 'emerge' to update, you will hose the machine, from that point it will whine ( about the prohibition on systemd!! ) and grind to a halt when asked to emerge anyffin
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/01/systemd-journald-exploits-found-all-systemd-distros-affected/ << Qntra -- Systemd Journald Exploits Found All Systemd Distros Affected
asciilifeform: i had naively installed 'archlinux' on it, and as result found out for 1st time what systemd was.
mircea_popescu: top systemd keks. pwn eins!
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/10/systemd-vulnerability-allows-crashing-systems-remotely-and-probably-executing-code-too-with-dhcpv6-packets/ << Qntra - SystemD Vulnerability Allows Crashing Systems Remotely (And Probably Executing Code Too) With DHCPv6 Packets
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 15:52 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856366 << imo syslogger should be abolished altogether. before systemd it wasn't obvious to me what it is -- but now, plenty obvious. "unified logging" terrible idea.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856366 << imo syslogger should be abolished altogether. before systemd it wasn't obvious to me what it is -- but now, plenty obvious. "unified logging" terrible idea. ☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: point upstack being, 100% of what i've touched with own hands of 'adult' heavy equip without microshit or systemd etc in it somewhere, was 1980s vintage or earlier.
asciilifeform: wouldn't surprise me if it is being passed around, contextless, in heathendom, as 'make a gentoo sans systemd' pill.
asciilifeform: what is gained from having there exist a drepperized systemd thing ? or what am i missing
mircea_popescu: but i mean... lookit, the author will make a static binary ; and who the fuck is going to make a drepper systemd thing ?
a111: Logged on 2018-07-11 18:03 asciilifeform: trinque has : USE="libressl offensive -X -acl -bluetooth -consolekit -cups -dbus -iconv -nls -pulseaudio -systemd -wayland -xattr"
a111: Logged on 2018-07-11 18:02 asciilifeform: trinque: my current set : USE="-libnotify -consolekit -gtk3 -systemd -cups -dbus -gpm -avahi -gnome -tls-heartbeat -nls"
mircea_popescu: re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833446 / http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833449 it would seem the correct mezcla would go USE="libressl offensive -X -libnotify -avahi -acl -bluetooth -consolekit -cups -dbus -iconv -nls -avahi -pulseaudio -systemd -wayland -xattr -tls-heartbeat" on the expectation -X does -gpm -gtk3 -gnome implicitly. ☝︎☝︎
asciilifeform: trinque has : USE="libressl offensive -X -acl -bluetooth -consolekit -cups -dbus -iconv -nls -pulseaudio -systemd -wayland -xattr" ☟︎
asciilifeform: trinque: my current set : USE="-libnotify -consolekit -gtk3 -systemd -cups -dbus -gpm -avahi -gnome -tls-heartbeat -nls" ☟︎
ave1: yes, It's the process of going sarting with "why am I not getting any core dumps" to "o hey the kernel will call a program to handle core dumps" to "O fuck, systemd is called". And then systemd with all of it's policies and pure stupidity.
a111: Logged on 2014-09-03 11:56 mircea_popescu: By default, systemd saves core dumps to the journal, instead of the file system. Core dumps must be explicitly queried using coredumpctl4. Besides going against all reason, it also creates complications in multi-user environments (good luck running gdb on your program's core dump if it's dumped to the journal and you don't have root access)
a111: 1 result for "systemd core", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=systemd%20core
ave1: !#s systemd core
trinque: to particular hardware architectures, particular justwantedto variations like use of systemd or nsa.selinux, so on. the profile dir is about 20mb, so serious yak shaving needs to occur there. it's a task I've already done elsewhere (produced a minimal profile for an embedded system for printers recently), just needs to be done here.
phf: v19 most people agree was the pinnacle of old school emacs, making that the default though is entirely impractical since most of the elisp code has changed drastically since. moving forward along the versions is the movement from "pure emacs" towards a "systemd included" dwim monstrosity.
mircea_popescu: phf we will have to somehow resolve this issue, because neither of the current outcomes is seemly. having republicans use the google drive systemd website thing is idiotic ; taking people's shit is idiotic. wut do.
phf: asciilifeform: you'd be amused by the latest emacs release, "Limited form of concurrency with Lisp threads" "Emacs now uses double buffering to reduce flicker on the X Window System" "Flymake has been completely redesigned" "TRAMP has a new connection method for Google Drive" "A systemd user unit file is provided". it's almost like a self-parody
a111: Logged on 2016-09-15 15:08 phf: i think asdf is evil, version 3 is doing some straight up systemd shit. for those who don't know asdf 3 comes with fare's own portability layer called uiop, which in a very systemd agressive and underhanded style is superseding existing utility libraries.
ckang: heh pre-systemd?
trinque: rest assured nobody's bringing systemd, dbus, pulseaudio, et al, alive
ckang: my biggest but dumbest peeve about systemd is the order of the action command
ckang: having to deal with systemd and initd just makes me angry
ckang: uggh, systemd makes me sad
BingoBoingo: The systemd-isms poison the readability of a lot of useful gentoo problem solution flovored docs
trinque: I think when you start enumerating those kinds of cases, there are many, and it's the sort of systemd hair we're familiar with.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-07#1782333 << hey, we get systemd in, right ? the reboots' gonna be so fast you won't even notice them << lol ☝︎
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-07#1782333 << hey, we get systemd in, right ? the reboots' gonna be so fast you won't even notice them ☝︎
asciilifeform: and is there a systemd on freebsd yet
mircea_popescu: leaving aside the problem of time in this system, which promises to be gnarly (time where ?), would it TRULY make you feel better about systemd if the blond schmuck whose name i forget claimed alien possession ?
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, i can't think of any project that actually thrived under his management. systemd tard pm'd circles around a decade's worth of collected rms effort in half a year.
mircea_popescu: anyway, very much systemd-"debate"-in-a-can
trinque: USE="-dbus -systemd -wayland -pulseaudio -gtk3 -icu -accessibility -nls -ipv6 -ldap" << with various in package.use
asciilifeform: phf: funnily enuff, systemd is mentioned in them there docs.
mircea_popescu: maybe it's a systemd clal.
trinque: "eudev" exists as an alternative to the systemd-udev. dunno what else the heathens stapled to systemd meanwhile
asciilifeform: ought to be specific -- it's the mere fact that a binturd of name 'systemd' is present.
asciilifeform: phunphakt : this yr's gentoo stage3 all include systemd (disabled, sure, but BINARILY PRESENT motherfuckers)
asciilifeform: in other noose, ALL of the 'livedvd' on gentoo's ftp appear to contain poetteringolade ( boots into gui horror, with systemd, 'networkmanager'-at-boot, etc. )
mircea_popescu: https://thenewstack.io/unix-greatest-inspiration-behind-systemd/ "Lennart Poettering is one of those few extremely prolific and brilliant engineers who have literally changed the design of Linux-based operating systems."
a111: Logged on 2016-08-04 13:17 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-04#1514253 << it was eaten by systemd. there is a (last i saw, working) clean fork, 'eudev'. and it looks like phf explains further down in the l0gz.
phf: well, in a sense that it's not a special wrong. they also run systemd and can't wait for wayland etc. etc.
TomServo: Being rid of systemd isn't so hard.. but dbus is quite a bitch.
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> random entertaining systemderps https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1449001 << fall back to getting googholed huh?
ben_vulpes: random entertaining systemderps https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1449001
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-07#1711352 << implemented over systemd's 'kernel dbus' nodoubt. ☝︎
danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-09#1695538 "the pogoplug experiment had nothing to do with scaling" << also it worked fine on my pogo. the only issue was i was doing it on some systemd monstrocity of a linux. There's no reason it wouldn't also work on a cuntoo-pogo as well ☝︎
mircea_popescu would very much like to see the lulzpile involved. fully systemd yet ? etc.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-21 10:06 ave1: well, I did not, but have looked at it now, I like the static story but fail to understand why they need to have their own faux systemd
ave1: well, I did not, but have looked at it now, I like the static story but fail to understand why they need to have their own faux systemd ☟︎
jurov: systemd on boot doing GET requests there in 3..2..1
erlehmann: also, any individual car using systemd and literally crashing because of it is unlikely to contain lennart.
erlehmann: problem is timespan. systemd already could not handle an empty string and executed tasks for users named “0day” as root because names starting with numbers are hard, mmmkay?! it might take a long time before it collapses.
mircea_popescu: famous moment of systemd sound engineering.
mircea_popescu: that's kinda the point no systemd detractor ever made : that systemd is fundamentally and by itself an unstable arrangement, and it'll end up stuck systemding itself to death, very much like how the dnc keeps revolutionizing itself into irrelevancy.
mircea_popescu: the problem with the systemd approach to system design is that everything ends up wanting to be its own master-exceptional-class.
erlehmann: bonus: only affected program is systemd
a111: Logged on 2017-07-01 23:36 sina: if you write a systemd unit file with "User=0day", it launches the process as root. Pottering sez: "not a bug"
sina: if you write a systemd unit file with "User=0day", it launches the process as root. Pottering sez: "not a bug" ☟︎
sina: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237 << "systemd can't handle the process previlege that belongs to user name startswith number, such as 0day"
mircea_popescu: o look, and systemd...
asciilifeform: to trick systemd-resolved in to allocating a buffer that's too small, and subsequently write arbitrary data beyond the end of it.'
asciilifeform: in other, not wholly unrelated, lulz, '...out-of-bounds write in systemd-resolved in Ubuntu, which is possible to trigger with a specially crafted TCP payload. ... Certain sizes passed to dns_packet_new can cause it to allocate a buffer that's too small. A page-aligned number - sizeof(DnsPacket) + sizeof(iphdr) + sizeof(udphdr) will do this... A malicious DNS server can exploit this by responding with a specially crafted TCP payload
a111: Logged on 2017-06-23 01:35 asciilifeform: re knuth... names ain't, afaik, copyrightable anywhere, even in usa.. so i half expect to live to see a 'mircea popescu foundation' run by, e.g., malia obummer, which funds transsexualized rust programming for systemd plugins
asciilifeform: re knuth... names ain't, afaik, copyrightable anywhere, even in usa.. so i half expect to live to see a 'mircea popescu foundation' run by, e.g., malia obummer, which funds transsexualized rust programming for systemd plugins ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-13 23:41 asciilifeform: from comments, lulzgold, 'The Hivemind is fully committed to systemd for service management, Wayland for graphical display, and PulseAudio for audio, which is why it doesn’t matter if you personally find them distasteful, they will become the de facto standard. For systems programming, Rust looks increasingly like it will be the Hivemind’s choice to replace C, as it has the backing of the Mozilla organization, is being used for r
erlehmann: if i was sufficiently bored, i would do the same to systemd
mircea_popescu: o look, " luke macken has created a systemd startup script"
asciilifeform: is it infested with systemd yet ?
phf: (speaking of common lisp. asdf the system dependency tool turned from 30k in version 1 into a asdf/uiop 900k monster in version 2. in a systemd move took over most of the compatability packages and is now present ~in every single lisp distribution~. with the did accomplished, Fare posts the following http://fare.livejournal.com/188429.html )
asciilifeform: '...trivial systemd local root exploit, that
asciilifeform: so from their pov 'it's our way or highway', 'systemd, winblows, crapple, or go write own device drivers'
a111: Logged on 2017-01-14 01:28 mircea_popescu: aqnyway, the "hive mind" is fucking comedic already. FIVE YEARS with the subverted python, got them nowhere. close to five years pushing rust, nothing to show for it. systemd is still mostly a joke, and the hatred is growing exponentially while the pustule is growing logarithmic at that. meanwhile the republic cracked open the heartbleed in quite the painful fashion, no matter how much effort went into "rehappening" it. not t
mircea_popescu: aqnyway, the "hive mind" is fucking comedic already. FIVE YEARS with the subverted python, got them nowhere. close to five years pushing rust, nothing to show for it. systemd is still mostly a joke, and the hatred is growing exponentially while the pustule is growing logarithmic at that. meanwhile the republic cracked open the heartbleed in quite the painful fashion, no matter how much effort went into "rehappening" it. not t ☟︎
asciilifeform: from comments, lulzgold, 'The Hivemind is fully committed to systemd for service management, Wayland for graphical display, and PulseAudio for audio, which is why it doesn’t matter if you personally find them distasteful, they will become the de facto standard. For systems programming, Rust looks increasingly like it will be the Hivemind’s choice to replace C, as it has the backing of the Mozilla organization, is being used for r ☟︎
gabriel_laddel_p: Oh right. Masamune is a gentoo (no systemd) curated for (sbcl) lisp development only. It offers graphics, CAS & other mathematical libs all in the same lisp process.
mircea_popescu: "consumers expect more like docker, systemd and ethereum!"