ben_vulpes: LinkedIn’s major asset is its 414 million users and the economic graph it drawws
phf: there's a set of hoops that one can jump through in order to delete own linkedin account, and then they still resurrect it every time they update their privacy policy or when the moon is just right. "414 million users"
ben_vulpes: > To install the correct compiler, run:
phf: ben_vulpes: i was just looking at that thing. i like his definition of what "correctness" in case of terminal emulator is. "should be able to properly render modern terminal applications like tmux and vim. Glyphs should be rendered properly, and the proper glyphs should be displayed."
pete_dushenski: i have one of those on my desk in front of me, as it happens. ratios between 100:1 and 500:1.
phf: huh, all the precision tools are made in germany. i guess cia doesn't need to do the whole "proud owner of made in ussa!" thing
pete_dushenski: gotta love the implied values of the colour of those dots on that linked graph : pink for women, black for 'other adults', light gray for men.
phf: presumably stored in an the country house attic between floorboards. i doubt he used nazi memorabilia at work. at least that's how we had a gewehr or a karabiner for a very long time. grandfather though it was appropriate to teach a tyke how to clean a gun with the only gun available in the dusty attic, because can't really use it or take it out or...
phf: huh, interesting. i can see that, i wonder if you need to be at a ведомственное скб or if it's the opposite, to get away with stuff like that
mircea_popescu: phf every whorish ditz i ever knew has a linkedin account.
mircea_popescu: slash advertising executives, design freelancers, executive consultants and whatnot.
trinque: "out of capacity, come back later" << from archive.is atm
mod6: <+asciilifeform> maybe mod6 does << there are a number of different lists.
mod6: these seem to go way back
trinque: asciilifeform: ye olde brainwashing + some kind of aggression-inducing bath salts.
mod6: first message i can see looks like september of 1997
trinque: or hell, "shoot or our snipers will blow your head off"
trinque: with some promise of capture alive at the end
trinque: threat towards family, lots of shit to motivate a guy.
trinque: RU scare tactic didn't work so it's "enemies within" now?
trinque: I can't put it past these idiots that they'd try a limited hangout on their impending 91
trinque: "the international bankers" in scare quotes. how quaint
trinque: asciilifeform: thought wasn't that the shooting was the hangout, but the leak of "they made me watch ISIS vids" to press
trinque: all the right rags trumpeted that detail rather quickly.
mircea_popescu: trinque it's not "didn't work". in the economy of the narcissist mind lashing out at untouchable target never is about ~the target~.
mircea_popescu: which is why stories about "the aliens" always have in clinical practice a little coda about one's father in law or w/e.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha, until someone deigns to rein in the html soup and implement one...
mircea_popescu: (of course as far as the spec goes, the bot saves archive.is + base64 blobs of all pages, so there is that, as inconvenient as it is)
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes any chance of getting last articles and last comments on your sidebar ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: in other lulz,
https://archive.is/qhUdp (trump meets with conde nast, new york times can barely contain its desperate enthusiasm "see ? we are still relevant! mp was wrong!!11"
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, "In 2008, the three broadcast networks, in their nightly news programs, devoted over the entire year a total of three hours and 40 minutes to issues reporting (defined as independent coverage of election issues, not arising from candidate statements or debates). In 2016, that plummeted to a grand total of just 36 minutes."
mircea_popescu: and that "entire year" is 365*24*60=525600 minutes ; NOT prime-time minutes. if you only count those, it's been 0.
mircea_popescu: us state media managed to catch up with the usg's dept of human feeding's record : hamburger with meat ~70 ppm, news with meat ~70 ppm, it's all good and all the same.
mircea_popescu: "Would it matter if the mainstream media did a better job? Or do we live in a post-truth age in which we are so distrusted that our investigations will be dismissed, if they are seen at all? I’m not sure, but we must at least try."
mircea_popescu: kristof can;t quite bring himself to say "everyone reads trilema anyway ; we're dogfood", gotta talk about facebook nonsense instead.
deedbot: netmonk voiced for 30 minutes.
netmonk: hello thank you mircea_popescu
netmonk: and happy new years everyone
netmonk: he is an impostor holding netmonk.com
netmonk: i was netmonk long before him ! :)
deedbot: Import failed for netmonk.
netmonk: damn i need to find my smartcard :)
netmonk: isn't it linked to gribble ?
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 14:42 netmonk: the masochistic pleasure to read your prose :)
deedbot: netmonk is not registered in WoT.
mircea_popescu: netmonk if you registered with gribble after the split, you're not in there.
trinque: netmonk: it just wants your fingerprint without spaces after !!register
netmonk: !!register 0x15F6BC08DC5EC056
deedbot: 6FD9603CAEDCB7638EFBE9D115F6BC08DC5EC056 registered as netmonk.
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 14:42 netmonk: the masochistic pleasure to read your prose :)
mircea_popescu: !!v CCD39ED41E126F5F5B3C89DDD7BFBDA16580B41B9EBF480933B00E932DA04556
trinque: yep if recv-key will take it, works. then there's the supply-via-paste method too.
mircea_popescu: netmonk now you can !!up yourself. and how's the soul of the internet doing ?
Framedragger: btw trinque i don't think my gpg key has all the associated ratings in your wot.deedbot.org wwwtron. but mebbe the latter isn't finished anyway, so i'm jumping ahead of myself :)
netmonk: strange i cannot decode the message
trinque: netmonk: might you have used the wrong key ID?
trinque: Framedragger: I decided to eat a beach ball whaddayawant
mircea_popescu: trinque how does it transform a short fp into the whole thing ? "15F6BC08DC5EC056" is insecure enough.
trinque: jk, lemme set the thing to regen per hour
trinque: mircea_popescu: however gpg does; I'm just passing it as argument to --recv-key
mircea_popescu: tsk. how about disabling sub-fp search altogether. kock0gpg is evil.
netmonk: !!register 0x62F6E94CB8BEC891
deedbot: netmonk is already registered.
netmonk: i gave my master key id instead of subkey encrypting
netmonk: !!register 62F6E94CB8BEC891
deedbot: netmonk is already registered.
trinque: mircea_popescu: is there a setting for that? otherwise gonna have to wait a bit
mircea_popescu: in gpg you mean ? nah, and i wouldn't trust it anyway. ok to wait, it waited for a year before masochist guy found the rake in grass to step on
trinque: would it be a terrible breach of ethics to help this guy re-register?
mircea_popescu: nah, seeing how a) it's the first time and b) he's nobody anyway
mircea_popescu: re-registering a nick with ratings on it can't be done, but unrated they're all equally the same.
netmonk: man i will have to load my master private key
mircea_popescu: netmonk well alternatively you could also know what your policies are and follow them neh ?
netmonk: why the bot didnt find the subkey used for encryption
trinque: it used the key you told it.
trinque: we're not much about "do what I mean" around heah
trinque: netmonk: I've deleted your registration; feel free to re-reg when you have the right key in hand
netmonk: !!register 0x62F6E94CB8BEC891
deedbot: 6FD9603CAEDCB7638EFBE9D115F6BC08DC5EC056 registered as netmonk.
☟︎ mircea_popescu will wait for self upping to rate. o wait, that doesn't work does it. A WELL!!1
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 14:42 netmonk: the masochistic pleasure to read your prose :)
mircea_popescu: !!v 49495EEDAC84BA490E236AF5CB0A220CD691D7E9D665512F9FE7271B1F189AD9
trinque: netmonk: send !!up to deedbot in a private message, then decrypt the response, and reply to deedbot with !!v <your OTP here>
mircea_popescu: this may be the least inclusive place in existence. imagine, trinque , the guy is long time linux sysadmin, specializes in assembly cycle shaving.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 15:02 deedbot: 6FD9603CAEDCB7638EFBE9D115F6BC08DC5EC056 registered as netmonk.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 14:47 deedbot: 6FD9603CAEDCB7638EFBE9D115F6BC08DC5EC056 registered as netmonk.
trinque: not a bad sort algorithm. most intolerant of an obstacle remaining in his path gets in first.
trinque: I have no evidence yet that using that key ID works, or what other heinous acts gpg undertakes when handed one
trinque: which is why the docs told the guy to use his fp
deedbot: netmonk voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: no i know. the point being - insanity contradicts expectation. i'm not importing koch.
mircea_popescu: and entirely unrelatedly : anyone willing to stand up an irc bot for me (as a service for hire deal) and expose some kind of programmable interface that can read messages to it, process and push out a reply ? bonus points if i don't have to learn crazy-shitstick-"$modernlanguage".
☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu kind-of has a hankering to dick around with "ai", but no time to fuck with linux eigenstates.
mircea_popescu: what did you do, netmonk ! using md5 for hashing gb-sized packages was not bad enough, now you've done fucked your keythings!
mircea_popescu: visit #trilema for an hour, soak up shame to last many years!
netmonk: im not much into gpg stuff
mircea_popescu: that's like saying "i'm not much into clean linens". your personal taste in the matter is a relatively secondary concern. the primary thing is they don't let you inside oxford unless you wash.
netmonk: and i hope my bad reputation wont transfer to my child :)
netmonk: gpg --list-keys --fingerprint ?
netmonk: and which one ? masterkey of encrypting subkey ?
mircea_popescu: im not even sure what this difference is supposed to mean, but anyway. my own key uses the master and i've not had any problems, so there's that.
netmonk: ;;register 6FD9603CAEDCB7638EFBE9D115F6BC08DC5EC056
netmonk: this is my master key fingerprint
trinque: netmonk: of course when not already voiced you'd have to do that in a private message to the bot
netmonk: ;;v 8C3DABE6E76AE5C4F3B0D4CF20FB3D0970BC3477AD728E353903F234B702E67E
netmonk: i least i was succesfull to decrypt the otp :)
netmonk: so things seems to work so far, thank you !
netmonk: !!v 8C3DABE6E76AE5C4F3B0D4CF20FB3D0970BC3477AD728E353903F234B702E67E
deedbot: You are now voiced in #trilema
mircea_popescu: now then, were you looking for stuff to do ? other than reading the log that is.
netmonk: i will try to improve my gpg skills
netmonk: well i still have all the backlog from one year ago to read
netmonk: danielpbarron still around :)
netmonk: mircea_popescu: do you have some work to propose ?
mircea_popescu: there's both the profiling of large db indexes stored as ext4 or xfs ; and the implementing of the fabulous mp hash in asm and cycle counting it.
netmonk: but not much time for that currently
netmonk: "aite" reminds me some jamaican slang
mircea_popescu: i'm an utter linguistic slut, if it wasn't screamingly obvious.
mod6: hola mircea_popescu
mod6: I like that MARC thing. seems useful.
mod6: be neat to have a tmsr mirror of that; probably yuuuge tho.
mircea_popescu: iirc it was made for a very tmsr-like reason - kde people wanted to save their mailing list
mod6: yeah, seems like it. then they just kept adding other archives. very helpful.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 11:59 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes any chance of getting last articles and last comments on your sidebar ?
ben_vulpes: i'm one more 'undefined is not a function' away from moving to boring and raising cashmere goats
☟︎ ben_vulpes: fixing my wp template heinous though it definitely is is not anywhere near the top of my list of things to do
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: you probably know this but each post has an rss feed for its comments as well
ben_vulpes: augh gabriel_laddel_p i'm formatting your comment into sanity
trinque: this shit where g_l is replying to me in your fucking blog
trinque: I'm not using networkmanager; where's my lisp nic?
trinque must quote asciilifeform to g_l
trinque: ben_vulpes: I made the statement here, will wait for the day g_l shows up permanently and raises the thread
trinque: this dancing about like he gets to define how the logs work is out
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes thing is, i land on your page, i have no easy way of knowing what moves.
trinque: because there is nothing beneath! fucks sake
trinque: can't just talk to wpa_supplicant no
trinque: aha, or your or my gentoo recipes
☟︎ trinque: all I can say is, take part in the forum. it'll rid you of that american megalomania, or get rid of you, real quick.
mircea_popescu: alf's scathing is getting ever more acidic week by week.
mircea_popescu: this is ridoinculous, the paternal fallacy. "oh he sucks but i made him". doh ? do you do the same with code, also ?
mircea_popescu: more sympathy by a large margin is owed to the things no one made, than to the suspected fruits of anyone's loins.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm not entirely up to speed re sad state of lisp world. i expect it's in the shitter, but not exactly clear how. is there any merit to the nude assertion that "lisp is a shittier thing than trb, because trb at least has SOMETHING that can be made into a musl ; whereas lisp does not" ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: asciilifeform death distinguishes. i literally beat them until they either die or reform.
mircea_popescu: (it is, believe it or not, entirely not evident from the activity of "lisp people" whether it does or does not exist, the object of their work/preoccupation.)
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes "if ch approximates an immutable datastruct over the interval lastvisit - currentvisit".
trinque: ^ aka took me a minute to find g_l's reply to me
mircea_popescu: in practice i come to understand now, after thousands of articles / years blogging, that in fact the frontend to a blog should really be as close to a... vdiff patch! as practicable.
trinque: which was probably intentional on his part
mircea_popescu: and let's pass in silence over the circumstance that i'd have never figured that out if i kept blogging by itself.
ben_vulpes: smells rather strongly of "read" == "rolled eyeballs over"
trinque: it could be said that insofar as the CL standard does not specify a machine, it is drastically incomplete
trinque: and that lack leads directly to the present day diaspora, and the ghettos, on other systems
mircea_popescu: it does not specify it in the sane sense. but his contention is not baseless.
trinque: then the failure of outer specification makes the inner nigh meaningless
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 15:19 mircea_popescu: and entirely unrelatedly : anyone willing to stand up an irc bot for me (as a service for hire deal) and expose some kind of programmable interface that can read messages to it, process and push out a reply ? bonus points if i don't have to learn crazy-shitstick-"$modernlanguage".
ben_vulpes: trinque: any action on recording all message lines or is that a patch i should cook?
trinque: but lets discuss; I've got idears
mircea_popescu: great opportunity for me to learn / everyone to lol at my learning lisp!
mircea_popescu: how much for a year's worth of hosting it + the occasional reboot ?
ben_vulpes: let's say 2 btc, and that'll cover the patch to record all protocol lines as well
ben_vulpes: currently trinquebot only logs vanilla messages in its channels
trinque: dunno if that's needed for this
trinque: privmsg is used for both channel messages and pm
trinque: what it doesn't log is every protocol line that goes to/fro; it logs parsed message lines only
ben_vulpes: mhm. it's the ACTION lines that it doesn't catch.
ben_vulpes: protocol lines include server banners etc
mircea_popescu: ah. the way i was thinking this'd work would be : the bot answers to any lines where its name is mentioned ; and i can update its "brain" with a !^ url style command. whereby it replaces its "ai" code with the content of the file.
☟︎ trinque: well, doesn't parse. those are still privmsg iirc
mircea_popescu: nice. so as an example, my first task would be to figure out how to instruct it to respond to messages only if there've been less than 12 lines spoken the past 15 minutes. that sort of thing.
trinque: ben_vulpes: what I do need to do is release logbot-service.genesis
mircea_popescu: subquestion : does teh esteemed lordship find itself inclined to tolerate the exercise ?
☟︎ trinque: and you'd extend that class for this
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i'd rather read your experiments in lisp than php
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes nah the idea is, bot will attempt to learn from conversation. with, eg, you.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform see, the sentiment is mutual - i want mine to eat you lot.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i mean to say "if it gets mircea_popescu to write and think in lisp its a worthwhile use of lines"
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes so therefore considering that you don't have to rewrite trinque's bot nor is a vps more than a few bux a month, dja got a counteroffer ? :D
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the idea is not without merit ; but i was gonna try an interactive slut.
mircea_popescu: best i can tell the two aren't blocking each other in any way.
trinque: ben_vulpes: so sounds like we should still consider doing the patch for raw messages, such that we don't have to build this atop out-of-date logbot-service
trinque: I can give it some time next week
mircea_popescu: ill go harvesting parantheses in the meanwhile so i have a few stacks
trinque: deploying other people's code into a logbot service sounds pretty UCI to me
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: counteroffer impending, rescuing dog food from child
mircea_popescu: this exercise promises in any case to be hopefully one of many in a new trend : $item for extremely intelligent people.
mircea_popescu: (i would like to thank the academy, the harem sluts, and phf / ben_vulpes discussions for inspiring me to come this far!)
phf:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598258 << you know those guys that periodically stop by lisper venues, and they don't really program, but they want to use LISP to build an AI, because metacircularity of code is data is giving them mystical visions..?
☝︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 17:32 asciilifeform: trinque: eh he's a veeery speshul trainflake, managed to read (if one is to believe) my compleateworx, and learn 0
phf: presumably also read ~something~
ben_vulpes: lol omfg rescue dog food from child, only to be blessed by cries of anger when dog takes banana from child
☟︎ ben_vulpes: trainflake nice missed that on the first pass
mircea_popescu: you're really better off letting them sort out their food themselves.
phf:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598294 << scheme83 is like a "canticle for leibowitz" artifact. "published design" is overstatement of the century. scraps of published memos and reports spread over out of print conference proceedings, the bulk of actual technology needed to recreate probably somewhere on a TAPE. i don't know where you got that mask generator runs on scheme83. the entire production stack was for mit cadr
☝︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 17:50 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'lisp trb' is sussman's 'scheme83' chip.
phf: are you talking about aim-514?
Framedragger:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598383 << reminds me of how i first chanced upon lisp. i was eighteen, more pretentious than now, and had eaten my first hashcake half an hour ago. i was reading esr, jumped to topic of lisp and homoiconicity, and was like... d0000d. this is how you penetrate the universe. knowwhatimsayin.
☝︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 18:15 phf:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598258 << you know those guys that periodically stop by lisper venues, and they don't really program, but they want to use LISP to build an AI, because metacircularity of code is data is giving them mystical visions..?
Framedragger: luckily enough i realized i was on hash before i could quickly set up a blog in haskell and start writing stupid words about the singularity
Framedragger: iirc same evening included me "really getting" dark side of the moon, "like really getting it you know?"; but eh, it was beautiful so can't complain.
mircea_popescu: and speaking of canticle : anyone looking to write a sf piece in the a c clarke vein willing to model what'd happen if a lead comet the size of ceres showed up on a slow orbit ? at first, comet observed somewhere past kuipier belt, it's slow and dim. then, is it a comet or an asteroid ? then, measurements indicate it's much too dense. then, in timescales ever narrowing, its orbit turns out to be unsafe. then, as it collapses
mircea_popescu: into the sun (which ideally should be done "safely", ie, perpendicular to planetary plane and away from earth-at-the-time, it... moderates it! so the sun cools. which is significant. story goes on.
mircea_popescu: correctly modelling "what would happen to sun if chunk of lead hit it" is more of a "learn qm exercise" than most resources available.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger i "really got it" coupla nights ago, out walking, splendid full moon with abendstar in opposition. and it was SO OBVIOUSLY a fucking planet, lit by the star in part that i really had nfi what people had been doing prior. it's fucking obvious omg!
mircea_popescu: not like you can't SEE the whole sphere, and the dark part is dim but visible.
phf: asciilifeform: because i have a paper by shrobe from 1982 vlsi conference (i could only find a hardcopy, been meaning to scan it), that explicitly says that data path generator was written for mit cadr, and that it opts the DPL code out of a gui environment. i haven't seen complete listing for DPL for the cpu either.
ben_vulpes: howl at the blood moon or something i have no iea
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: ah, that's pretty cool. i see what you mean - you can see craters and the dark side still being the moon... collective delusion / cognitive dissonance something something! (and btw i meant the album but both work well in this instance..) :)
☟︎ mircea_popescu: incidentally, /me is not a great fan of tattoos, by which i mean the meaningless optional bs, not the actual tribal/prison stuff. however, from a purely aesthetic perspective, isn't there something fundamentally wrong with the blocky ones (ie, the ones with large monocolor chunks) ?
ben_vulpes: aside from bespeaking poverty of taste and pocket?
phf: they always look like somebody laid paint too thick while painting a metal shed
ben_vulpes: subject of painting metal sheds, i just discovered "papercrete"
mircea_popescu: phf and the effect is especially negative when the girl overdoes the make-up lines, as some girls do.
mircea_popescu: "hey, wanna see my tattoo ?" "o wow, it looks like you did it yourself!"
ben_vulpes: i'm down for scarification, but only the high-entropy kind that comes of abrading self against road
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: you want your code to run on every new message?
phf: because ultimately chip was manufactured out of DPL files (described in aim-598) the whole deflayout/defregtype/defconst thing. i haven't seen ~that~ published anywhere
phf: well, shrobe went on to work at smbx, and used the evolution of the same stack to make an ivory. i wouldn't be surprised that's where the licensing went
phf: (he i think published another paper on the subject of making lisp cpus, but with smbx as his @)
phf: right, i think i was going to source it for completeness, but never bothered because of abstract.
phf: i have a second trip scheduled for second week of march to finish the process
phf: i'm treating it as an avocation, so i'm resigned to glacier speeds that all these people require
phf: problem is that our man never really had the code (certainly no "rights" to code), since i think that the asset split went something like "you get the body and you get the soul", and the guy with the soul is keeping it in his garage to "turn into millions one day one i retire" sort of thing.
phf: well, result of my work will be basically one step removed from useless :} no need for a logic analyzer, but still a gargantuan effort to make sense of architecture. smbx has opposite problem from scheme stack. there's the DPL, but there aren't any AIM-514 equivalents
mircea_popescu: phf can you explain briefly and in short simple words management may be suspected of comprehending why do you think this is worth doing ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: customization aside, .13 for a year of hosting and .17 for a year of support and reboots?
ben_vulpes: i gotta do a food and battery run before these roads ice over, bbl
netmonk: for how long am i voiced ?
phf: netmonk: you've upped yourself at some point, you should be voiced indefinitely
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 17:43 asciilifeform: but notice, he won't, like vampire avoids the sun
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel_p: get with Framedragger just fix it
phf: mircea_popescu: it gives me a way to bring my knowledge and skill on par with people who invented computing, both on cs and ee sides. i keep one eye on a possiblity that i will be able to restart their work. in entirely hypothetical scenario of somebody coming to me and going "we want to build a personal computer that follows stan's 7 laws etc." i simply want to be able to do it from first principles. at worst there's going to be some
☟︎ phf: historical record of some of the systems decisions symbolics made, that somebody else might use.
Framedragger: whatyougonnado.jpg ; fwiw gabriel_laddel_p i'd lend you a vps for a month for free (i wouldn't have access to it) just so that you'd stop pissing people off, but your call of course
gabriel_laddel_p: Framedragger: thanks, but pass. I don't deal with computers I cannot physically touch.
Framedragger: admirable approach, but not very pragmatic. then again, pragmatic things can lead to bad places, too...
netmonk: gabriel_laddel_p: you can touch the server if you can fly to paris
Framedragger: (i don't really see why you'd have to trust this intermediary node, though)
netmonk: and access dc3 equinix datacenter
ben_vulpes: confuse ye not the promiscuous devices with the chaste devices or what was it
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 17:38 asciilifeform: trinque: you can tell that d00d took 0 trouble to read, e.g., the pogo archives
ben_vulpes: well having failed to extract the battery from the dead car i must now do the aforementioned food run but also to get a 10mm deep socket
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 20:03 phf: mircea_popescu: it gives me a way to bring my knowledge and skill on par with people who invented computing, both on cs and ee sides. i keep one eye on a possiblity that i will be able to restart their work. in entirely hypothetical scenario of somebody coming to me and going "we want to build a personal computer that follows stan's 7 laws etc." i simply want to be able to do it from first principles. at worst there's going to be some
netmonk: and for 0.3 more i can provide openvpn
phf: i think we should draw a line at illuminated schematics though
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 17:49 mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm not entirely up to speed re sad state of lisp world. i expect it's in the shitter, but not exactly clear how. is there any merit to the nude assertion that "lisp is a shittier thing than trb, because trb at least has SOMETHING that can be made into a musl ; whereas lisp does not" ?
gabriel_laddel_p: No? Because now Masamune exists and we can begin to address the other issues (such as x86) like adults?
gabriel_laddel_p: ^ Roughly my feelings on the matter, however CLIM is sufficiently enjoyable to distract from this.
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: I'm doing my best to keep it from the hands of idiots.
gabriel_laddel_p: That being said, I should drop a version in here for the lordship
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: an ubuntu+sbcl+clim "masamune" gets released and promoted by the whole "lisp community" that lacks sources, macsyma, MJRCALC, MGL, etc
gabriel_laddel_p: I want every penny of commercial lisp code to be directed to republican pockets.
netmonk: damn i just realise it still exist people coding in lisp
☟︎ gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: once I figure out how to do this USB replication things, I aim to see every that every lord / notable republican has a Masamune + the ability to replicate it.
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 18:06 mircea_popescu: subquestion : does teh esteemed lordship find itself inclined to tolerate the exercise ?
gabriel_laddel_p: Thus, they can sell Masamune and pocket whatever they're able to make.
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: yeah, but FUCKGOATS has _lots_ of text, whereas this is a video.
gabriel_laddel_p: Anyways, will encrypt a copy to the lordship and drop it in here today.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 17:38 asciilifeform: trinque: you can tell that d00d took 0 trouble to read, e.g., the pogo archives
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 17:39 trinque: aha, or your or my gentoo recipes
davout: i really don't get this fascination with whatever idiots will do
gabriel_laddel_p: davout: you've never wanted to do anything even remotely similar to what I aim to do.
☟︎ gabriel_laddel_p: if you want to discuss this in more detail, find me a blog I can post comments on without people bitching
mircea_popescu: phf illuminated schematics with tits seems like a winning strat.
davout: gabriel_laddel_p: i have no interested in taking part in anything for which whatever idiots do or do not do has any kind of bearing
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 20:30 gabriel_laddel_p: davout: you've never wanted to do anything even remotely similar to what I aim to do.
davout: a bot that could randomly go on strike i guess
netmonk: davout: from what i hear you left
davout: i don't know, maybe we do?
davout: some peeps i meet irl but don't have a mapping to a nick
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 20:10 gabriel_laddel_p:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598292 < this is _the_ problem in the lisp world. Each and every lisper painfully recreates a sorta-similar environment over the course of years.
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: idk about that. Symbolics was a different beast with a different set of problems. But then again, I don't know that much about the people involved with Symbolics, so perhaps you are right.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 20:25 netmonk: damn i just realise it still exist people coding in lisp
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel_p well, let's put it this way - not a page of symbolics supposedly superb documentation did make it to republican coffers after all.
gabriel_laddel_p: I contend that the current "lisp community" is a bunch of fundamentally broken people, and that symbolics was a bunch of fundamentally broken people, but they're broken in different ways.
mircea_popescu: anyway, entertaining the thing as you describe at face value : if indeed your concern is a sort of bastardization as conceptually constructible from the foregoing, then the correct move is to build your masamune on musl and attach a license that forbids the empire (such as for instance the trb license ; or else one stating to use must be in l2, or rated by you, or any such thing). this will mostly protect you both technically
☟︎ mircea_popescu: then alf can run the thing ; and altman can't run the thing, both because he doesn't know how to and because he doesn't see any point in trying.
gabriel_laddel_p: Sigh. Altman is probably going to end up with a version in his hands before alf.
mircea_popescu: now, it may be that you don't know how to do this, but that's easier to solve than any other problem.
mircea_popescu: netmonk did you see ben_vulpes 's lisp implementation of V ?
mircea_popescu: kinda neat concept this, incidentally : "license is hereby granted to run this software to and only to those parties who have been wot-rated by $author".
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 20:26 gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: once I figure out how to do this USB replication things, I aim to see every that every lord / notable republican has a Masamune + the ability to replicate it.
mircea_popescu: might be ~same as the above musl, i suppose on a curated gentoo.
mircea_popescu: truth be told we're so far into it i can't say in confidence i even fully understand what masamune ~actually is~. this is a sad state of affairs.
deedbot: gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 20:31 asciilifeform: possibly others.
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel_p: you may continue to comment on my blog, others may continue to bitch, there is no pleasing everyone
netmonk: mircea_popescu: im discovering it
netmonk: i used to program in RPL on my hp48 back in the day, does that count ? :)
phf: (in unrelated tooling, mc is handy. i can see why asciilifeform still uses it. you can go pretty far with the whole ofm paradigm, combine it with unix underneath, etc.)
gabriel_laddel_p: ^ the whole lordship should be able to decrypt it on the off chance you're curious.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel_p so what is this stick business, a tailored gentoo + masamune ?
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: "stick business"? You are referring to the analogy from ascii earlier?
mircea_popescu: no you said you're trying to get a stick replication ?
gabriel_laddel_p: Oh right. Masamune is a gentoo (no systemd) curated for (sbcl) lisp development only. It offers graphics, CAS & other mathematical libs all in the same lisp process.
gabriel_laddel_p: One of the features I need to complete is replication, which is to say: "A single procedure call being all that is necessary to bundle the entirety of the (possibly heavily modified) sources into a redistributable bootable USB stick installer or network download. "
mircea_popescu: and this is for some reason mroe than a dozen lines of bash, for instance ?
gabriel_laddel_p: Yes. For one, I can't create a working livecd. Secondly, it should not touch your personal files when replicating.
gabriel_laddel_p: If you know the dozen lines of bash that will do this, do tell.
mircea_popescu: in my own mind, it's just unsquash the image, impose a portage on it / make other customisations and resquash it. at least that's how it ~should~ work what the everloving fuck.
gabriel_laddel_p: I cannot create an image that comes with all the required goodies without breaking something or other.
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: something like that. There are a whole slew of issues: the init that Martin ships works fine, but if I substitute my own init - breaks. Among a million other things I have don't understand, such as
mircea_popescu: it might be a good idea to write all these down ; there's a decent chance people here may read, and a not negligible chance at least one knows why it fails.
gabriel_laddel_p: when creating my image, why must I copy using cp -dpR /somedir/* /someotherdir/ rather than the -a flag?
BingoBoingo: ty mircea_popescu about maximally long but oh so lulzy
mircea_popescu: no sauce for it, either, because well... sikrit infoz.
mircea_popescu: which only adds to the amusement -- got data about what they plan to do in case data leaks which has been now leaked.
ben_vulpes: battery tie nuts were so solidly adhesed to the ties that the rod snapped
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: do you want an ircbot to play with "now" and migration to trinque's new shiny be damned or do you want to wait for the new shiny?
ben_vulpes: new shiny entails capture of everything that comes out of irc servers and service/command module
mircea_popescu: i only have a vague idea of what im gonna do with it anyway, will clarify in time.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i really only need it to see when it's highlighted and talk back.
netmonk: but trust isnt mutually excluded with control
mircea_popescu: feminine pov. if you're a herd animal, trust === control.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 18:24 Framedragger:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598383 << reminds me of how i first chanced upon lisp. i was eighteen, more pretentious than now, and had eaten my first hashcake half an hour ago. i was reading esr, jumped to topic of lisp and homoiconicity, and was like... d0000d. this is how you penetrate the universe. knowwhatimsayin.
Framedragger: take it easy friend, things can be said and appreciated in jest :)
Framedragger: this reminds me of when i earnestly tried to pull a "do you even positivism" russell's teapot "prove it" on mp re. his claims on Tor
deedbot: gabriel_laddel_p may not !!down Framedragger.
Framedragger: well, i'm sorry if i angered you, did not intend that :)
gabriel_laddel_p: !!v 09D7D2552E4291B91E5F21B3D7554D23373D9A2A44FF5B185ED693978F70E818
deedbot: gabriel_laddel_p rated Framedragger -10 << useless
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 20:46 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598536 << the btcbase logs run on lisp for instance. in fact #tmsr is afaik the largest lisp codebase in actual use (ignoring for a moment whatever portions of AWOG alf may wish to bring up).
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 20:48 mircea_popescu: anyway, entertaining the thing as you describe at face value : if indeed your concern is a sort of bastardization as conceptually constructible from the foregoing, then the correct move is to build your masamune on musl and attach a license that forbids the empire (such as for instance the trb license ; or else one stating to use must be in l2, or rated by you, or any such thing). this will mostly protect you both technically
a111: Logged on 2015-05-23 06:52 gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> ben_vulpes in particular it's unclear to me how wise the "licenses" angle is for a serenissima derivative. while i declined to anull IP when diametric asked earlier, i am very very far from any sort of belief that the current model of that stack of stupidity has any sort of hope for survival. << i figured (perhaps stupi
adlai: no, and my trb node never finished syncing either
adlai: the haemorraging-edge one, dome linoks
adlai: and some sorta bsd but i don't own the iron
gabriel_laddel_p: adlai: what runs on the machine that is actually sitting on your lap
adlai: gabriel_laddel_p: read my lisp: arch linux
adlai: also, don't laptop literally, that literally kills the sperm
adlai hopes gabriel_laddel_p has no dead line in mind
☟︎ adlai: (also you seem to vastly overestimate my competence, which is fine - a common mistake. others here seem to have a better idea of it)
mircea_popescu: ah google has an airfinder thing too ? had no idea. apparently written in cl indeed.
adlai tells that one story about the math teacher that drew a line on the blackboard, then fisted it to uproars from the audience
☟︎ gabriel_laddel_p: adlai: you're plenty smart, and could be useful if you'd work on useful stuff.
adlai: gabriel_laddel_p: what is a use?
deedbot: gabriel_laddel_p may not !!down adlai.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha. doesn't seem to be going anywhere, iirc they also bought matrix, and never integrated
adlai: gabriel_laddel_p: protip, don't drink and rate
mircea_popescu: i generally use either girl-who-works-at-agency or else expedia.
adlai: mircea_popescu: iiuc qpx is the ~one~ proggy google did not rewrite in blub after it landed in their laps
adlai: gabriel_laddel_p: fwiw, i intend to finish the hardcopy of hacker's delight that landed in my life before properly digesting the links you sent me, but out of politeness, i will skim them first.
adlai: !!v 41106D515B449ED8C50D122247FA7FD94F5EFBBB021FD9CEDF6E9A9D8FD72EF4
deedbot: adlai rated gabriel_laddel_p 1 << likely impostor until verified otherwise, still needs a bouncer; otoh, talks plenty smart.
adlai has lots of logs to catch up before amending the rating.
gabriel_laddel_p: adlai: anyways, iirc hackers delight is a bunch of tricks for binary machines. I see no reason why you shouldn't just skip it.
gabriel_laddel_p: also, if you could locate the precise knuth book where he discusses balanced ternery, and then find me a warez copy, that would be useful
☟︎ netmonk: not so difficult to find taocp on bittorrent
gabriel_laddel_p: netmonk: I've been ignoring everything you've said because it is clear you've not read 6 months of logs.
phf: actually it would be nice if somebody were to warez the cross referenced version of taocp that was produced by tug. stuff that's on bittorent is junk
netmonk: gabriel_laddel_p: that's a valid reason currently
gabriel_laddel_p: netmonk: then come back after a month or so and we'll see if we can have an actual conversation.
netmonk: gabriel_laddel_p: alright, but still, it's not so difficult to find it on bittorrent
gabriel_laddel_p: netmonk: I don't want all of them (well, I do, but nevermind that) - I want the specific book & page number where knuth discusses balanced ternery.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-06 06:27 ben_vulpes: eh, the leaving of free money on the ground baffles me.
adlai: | size gradually enough that users don't realize they can pay lower fees again"
adlai: how's it go... "hidden are the devil's machinations" (rough transation of "nistarot hen darkei ha'el")
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 23:21 adlai hopes gabriel_laddel_p has no dead line in mind