Framedragger: btw maersk (some related ports) is down due to new "ransomware" (orange website says it's the same nsa "eternalblue" windows vuln)
☟︎ mircea_popescu: netflix interprets maersk as damaged and just routes around teh censor ships!
Framedragger: i mean, scriba was supposed to have an mp emulator chatbot, so i'll keep it in mind :)
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 23:18 lobbes: "Many folks expect to have some way of viewing and using emojis" heh
sina: mircea_popescu: patience appreciated while I attempt to rephrase question.
sina: in current model, operator can write a message and claim it is from anyone and "publish" it to their own message store. when peers connect, the messages since last seen are delivered, each encrypted with a peer-pair unique RSA key. so as the message "progresses" between peers it gets encrypted, then decrypted and stored in each peers message store in plaintext
☟︎ sina: what I'm asking is, does that behaviour match the intent? OR
sina: should the operator be encrypting the message for the final recipient and then publishing that ciphertext?
Framedragger: intermediary peers won't be able to decrypt message in the latter model, asciilifeform
sina: Framedragger: thanks, exactly what I meant
Framedragger recalls mircea_popescu's archaic use of "for" in context of gossipd
sina: so the answer is "the program should allow for both behaviours"
sina: asciilifeform: yesterday you mentioned 2 articles, but I had only seen one, if you recall URL can you link second one?
Framedragger: in fact i'd imagine that gossipd should ideally allow for arbitrary end to end encryption, would be up to operator?
Framedragger got confused from article, too (hence not opining re gossipd currently)
Framedragger: asciilifeform: sure, but (plz don't vomit from use of keyword) there should be a way to onion-rsa them, too (A encrypts to C's key, then encrypts to B's key and tells B to relay to C which is currently offline, or w/e)
Framedragger: god it's like quoting talmud at this point :D (i mean the long comments etc)
Framedragger: right, eternal rsa gen process, rsa'd automatically, etc
sina: asciilifeform: can you clarify, *all* comms? when I was implementing my first pass at encrypting comms yest, I found that at least the very first message when a peer connects as a client would be plaintext, i.e. "hi I'm A", otherwise the "server" would need to enumerate all its keys to find if it knows the peer?
☟︎ sina: then is there a need for a challenge at all?
Framedragger: in fact that's a question i asked in comments, sina
Framedragger: i even raised a (nonsensical) "but-t-t time complexiti!" concern re this
Framedragger: afaict gossipd model assumes that some rsa keys had been exchanged out-of-band. traditional challenge-response has been constantly critiqued by asciilifeform via "it's a DoS vector" argument (sorry if too curt, am in bed)
Framedragger: (which makes sense, hence lighthoused proposal)
sina: this will change my design a little bit
Framedragger: sina: to clarify (hopefully lol), that ^ is for all intents and purposes outdated. asciilifeform did say "original mp algo". that said, i'll agree if you say "you guys have a documentation problem omg"
Framedragger: (but then, the newer article clearly states "This is an up-to-date draft specification for gossipd", so i'm not too sure about that, either)
Framedragger: sina: fwiw (he can speak for himself but to save you time), asciilifeform does not like sessions [ever|anymore], and considers them ugly beasts which won't have a place in his gossipd bed
☟︎ sina: appreciated Framedragger
Framedragger: (i know it's a hella lot of comments under the newer article but iirc his "DoS magnet!!" points are addressed there)
sina: I guess I'll wait for some clarification from mircea_popescu ? challenge/response is a session based concept even ignoring the older post
Framedragger: did you read the part about lighthouse based challenge, though?
sina: "To craft a valid packet, a sender must collect a single auth string from the receiving node's lighthouse (via whatever means, can be a shortwave tuner), craft auth with it as described by Mircea Popescu earlier, encipher to receiver's RSA pubkey, and send." ?
Framedragger: tl;dr asciilifeform described a way for peer A to provide a challenge-response to peer B in a way which would not require any communication from B, hence not creating a DoS vector
Framedragger: yeah, though note that the lighthouse may for all intents be node C there
sina: well, the next line is literally "This variant is not, incidentally, intrinsically incompatible with Mircea Popescu's - conceivably he might choose to hand out auth challenges to all-comers, while I operate lighthouse; while retaining the other basic mechanics."
Framedragger: note the important aspect which lighthouse introduces: constant stream of auth strings, "in all directions"
Framedragger: "in all directions" depends on medium. in radio, it's clear; in packet switched networks, could be a list of broadcast addresses to send auth strings to (constantly), etc
Framedragger: the point is that auth strings are sent regardless of whether the connecting peer (A) wants them
Framedragger: so there's no way to DoS peer B with "hi plox to send me an auth string, i'm totally legit non sybil node"
Framedragger: ("well ok, let me generate this one just for you, and this for just for you", vs. "i'll generate this many auth strings per time unit, and distribute them to this set of destinations (or "shit them out via radio"))
Framedragger: so in that sense it's not your traditional challenge-response. again, sorry if repeating
sina: no apologies necessary
sina: Framedragger: can you bear with me for a few questions or were you going to bbl?
sina: so we have a lighthouse thingo broadcasting some random bytes as challenge strings in plaintext
sina: and nodes are receiving and storing those challenge strings
sina: if I'm operator of peer A and want to send a message to peer B, what do I do? pick one of my stored challenge strings, sign it, send it along with my message?
Framedragger: yes i think so, and note that there is a time window there re. how recent challenge string has to be, to avoid replay. i.e., those strings expire. and yes that's how you send a msg to B iirc
Framedragger: A and B may then decide to enter some different "state" but the general gossipd design is stateless, i.e. there is no session
sina: probably a dumb question
Framedragger: mircea_popescu had concerns re. "signed", but iirc the concept of "station key" (vs. "mega important owner key") helped there. not sure if entirely resolved, tho
sina: but why can't A just sign any random bytes? why does it need to come from the lighthouse?
Framedragger: (btw the challenge strings may be in something else than plaintext, all depends on lighthouse and medium)
Framedragger: i believe this relates to asciilifeform's "traditional challenge-response creates DoS vector". so with a lighthouse auth string, one more important point is that a particular auth string cannot be reused.
sina: oh nevermind, obviously if you sign any random bytes it can be replayed
Framedragger: yeah, so this avoid replay but also sets a limit to how much DoS exposure you have (one of the limits, at least)
sina: another probably dumb question
sina: why not just sign the current UTC timestamp
sina: you can't replay timestamps outside of a certain window +/- 0.5s or something?
☟︎ Framedragger: because you can predict the future of such a lighthouse, hence craft any number of packets in advance
Framedragger: let me recall why that is super important lol; but the unpredictability of the auth strings coming from lighthouse is important
sina: Framedragger: really appreciate your patience, I get the feeling asciilifeform would be shouting at me again by now
Framedragger: i guess he'd say "read the article [implying read the comments, too]"
sina: I'm not sure I understand how you can craft packets in advance if they need to be signed
Framedragger reading how asciilifeform described the packets, if at all, because forgot
sina: also I can't see how the model can be *completely* stateless, there will always be some kind of minimal session which is "hi, I'm A" followed by a response tailored to A
sina: unless all responses are identical for all peers, which would make them plaintext
Framedragger: sina: right, re future, i didn't make sense there
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 01:19 sina: in current model, operator can write a message and claim it is from anyone and "publish" it to their own message store. when peers connect, the messages since last seen are delivered, each encrypted with a peer-pair unique RSA key. so as the message "progresses" between peers it gets encrypted, then decrypted and stored in each peers message store in plaintext
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 01:28 sina: asciilifeform: can you clarify, *all* comms? when I was implementing my first pass at encrypting comms yest, I found that at least the very first message when a peer connects as a client would be plaintext, i.e. "hi I'm A", otherwise the "server" would need to enumerate all its keys to find if it knows the peer?
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-28#1675565 << the problem with the concept of a "session" is that it attempts to link machine state to world state. this is a very tenuous proposition, and the fundamental reason why sessionificatyion of (the correctly designed) stateless
http protocol failed for 30 years straight and will continue to fail forever.
☝︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 01:45 Framedragger: sina: fwiw (he can speak for himself but to save you time), asciilifeform does not like sessions [ever|anymore], and considers them ugly beasts which won't have a place in his gossipd bed
mircea_popescu: you know, the lighthouse idea, while an idea, didn't actually get included.
mircea_popescu: prolly should separate the re-discussing of that from the guy trying to comprehend the spec
Framedragger: situation is different if the point is for peer A to newly introduce self to B. then (sina) "unpredictable lighthouse" is important because it sets a limit to how many auth strings can be used.
Framedragger: (in fact maybe that's an important point as well: lighthouse shits at a fixed rate; there is a discrete amount of auth strings which can be used. i guess this is obvious, i'm slow)
mircea_popescu: the only way for A and B to be introduced, outside of the grandfatherly, A fucks B and they exchange bits of paper, is C tells A about B and B about A.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: there's no peer discovery as a gossipd function ; at all times it knows already all the peers it will ever know. in lawyer speak this is called "never ask a question you don't know the answer to."
☟︎ Framedragger: mircea_popescu: yeah lighthouse discussion does complicate matters, the fact of the matter is, it's the only current (written) alternative to DoS-prone traditional challenge-response (A asks B to plz send challenge, A then response to B with that challenge), within gossipd universe
Framedragger: also lighthouse concept didn't get properly included in spec because it's probably not yet finished, ha
Framedragger: "Re 119 : You'll have to properly spec this if you want it." (you said it!)
sina: mircea_popescu: while I appreciate the validty of issues about sessions, challenge/response dictates there must be something akin to a session, even if that isn't the most precisely fitting term
mircea_popescu: at t2, B is free to decrypt or not decrypt P.B1. it is supposed to make this decision on the basis of B1 and whatever other data it uses to make such a decision.
mircea_popescu: at t3, providing B has opted to decrypt P.B1, it is in possession of P. if P is a standard message, it contains a reference allowing it to respond.
mircea_popescu: if the operator of B opts to respond, at t4 A will receive a P'.Ai
mircea_popescu: if the operator of B opts to relay, at t5 various nodes will receive a P.?j
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exactly. nmot that i'm against further exploring the lighthouse thing, but gotta be separate item for nao.
sina: "a reference allowing it to respond." << is that not a session concept?
mircea_popescu: sina i imagine it's a keyid of some kind. that makes a session ?
sina: mircea_popescu: I assume A generated that reference, and it is storing it until B has responded?
Framedragger: asciilifeform: ah, then i confused things by way of saying that "challenge-response needs to be ditched in gossipd model". hmm. i did think that the two items are not conceptually separable anymore
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: well you did say "whenever operator feels like it, keys get nuked." (i guess that's not the same, tho)
sina: mircea_popescu: ok that makes sense, you should consider updating the blogpost :P
mircea_popescu: Framedragger that is what "forever" means to machines.
sina: because the blogpost has a challenge/response thingo
sina:
http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/ III. Gossipd will receive inbound connectionsvii from identified clientsviii and on the basis of that identification produce an encrypted challenge string, which constitutes its response. If the other party responds with the proper challenge string, the connection is established ; otherwise it is dropped.
sina: this clarification is much appreciated, I do think I can rework what I've got to fit the above model
mircea_popescu: the idea was to report to the operator, "We have link with x". but conceptually, sessions as a fundamental building block of comms, are not used.
mircea_popescu: there's a difference between my client showing alf as "online" and my client being built on the concept of sessions.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: i never got to comandeer one from irc channel, am sad
sina: time for some food and stuffs, I will spend time later trying to implement this
Framedragger: i'm in fact curious why in your model lighthouse has to be unpredictable, asciilifeform. maybe it's something very obvious
sina: oh yeah, while we have you alf, can you answer above? why is lighthouse necessary if A can just sign current timestamp and B only accept timestamps within a small variance window?
sina: asciilifeform: if the challenges are being broadcast by the lighthouse in the clear, and all the peers are storing N of them, can't evilguy X just encrypt all of them?
sina: and send them at will?
sina: you can prevent replay by signing a timestamp and accepting only "current" timestamp within a window of +/- 0.X seconds?
sina: tmsr is a weird place
Framedragger: asciilifeform: but the main work by the receiving peer is in checking the signature of the other peer anyway (besides decrypting the message itself), no?
sina: <+asciilifeform> Framedragger: because not signing but decrypting << I am not sure I understand this. Why is it decrypting? Considering everyone has the plaintext from broadcasts
Framedragger: and if the main work is in checking signature, how does a "could not have practically come into existence before you broadcast S" help with regards to DoS?
Framedragger: if incoming message is *not signed*, then i understand - it sets a fixed horizon in terms of how much you can spam.
sina: anyway, I guess this is a seperate question for smarter people, I will just stick to trying to update my thingo to match mircea_popescu description above
Framedragger: asciilifeform: ah, damn. is the point to prove to B that A holds A's key at time t? i feel dumb
Framedragger: sina: point was to prove continued identity of A, continued ownership of A's private key, so to speak.
mircea_popescu: the problem with it, once ammended for the sign issue, was not exactly technical, more in terms of how expensiuve it is
mircea_popescu: not "it won't work" but rather "will it be worth working"
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 02:04 sina: you can't replay timestamps outside of a certain window +/- 0.5s or something?
sina: the weather is shit so I am just going to order a pizza and sit in the dark
sina: oh yeah. I'm actually on holidays from work this week, that is why I'm around hassling y'all at all hours
sina: asciilifeform: chronological ordering of messages?
sina: yeah, per the spec, peers are only storing messages with local timestamp they received them
sina: ordering/conflict resolution is left up to the operator
mircea_popescu: notice how it's not even POSSIBLE for the "same" message to be delivered via gossipd. for purely quantic reasons.
mircea_popescu: this is the root of the divergence so far, so not a bad reference. encountering a problem, sina tends to seek the "correct" dependency to bake in.
sina: s/correct/desired/ pls
mircea_popescu: it can work, depending, but it doesn't work by itself, it has to be a very strictly examioned thing.
sina: I mean I *can* go off and do my own thing, but then I am making a sinathing not a tmsrthing
sina: does he in an explosion of shit as he sits on the toilet?
mircea_popescu: sina the problem with the non-tmsr things is that they are undependable. in the complete sense of that term : temporally, functionally, you name it.
sina: the future is not all bad. I order pizza and can see its current progress in the store and GPS tells me its location en route
sina: asciilifeform: haha
mircea_popescu: sina do you see how this is an extra cost, not an added benefit ?
sina: mircea_popescu: my perspective is that I am just trying to implement what appears to be an interesting spec. for the reason of being interested in implementing that spec. so when I ask for tmsrthing clarification, it is just in terms of spec, not in terms of "making a thing" ...if that makes sense
sina: Mircea Popescu: Pizza Whisperer
mircea_popescu: but, and here's the beauty, for the same money today had salmon.
sina: the pizza doesn't even exist, you just say "yo, make pizza" and flour assembles itself into dough, tomatos become paste, basil grinds itself
sina: we aren't all rich Romanians with slavegirls ok
mircea_popescu: computer pseudoscience may be the only engineering discipline in which the ancient solutions actually are better.
mircea_popescu: slavegirl to run kitchen >>> gps to watch kitchen being run in
mircea_popescu: see, because if she is too slow, i don't just SAY she's too slow. she fixes it. and if she dun fix it fast enough i got whips to help along. what's the gps do ? it doesn't afford you any agency towards the pizzeria. yet you're wartching. so what do you do ? you turn inward, educate ~yourself~.
mircea_popescu: i don't want to grind myself by the measure of some 9.60 an hour mexicans in a kitchen somewhere.
sina: mircea_popescu: this is AU, no Mexicans, mostly SE Asians
mircea_popescu: do you know how many soviets yelled at the television set ?
mircea_popescu: i've seen some awesome bird-bird rape since i've been here btw. you have NO FDUCKING IDEA what birds do.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 00:18 Framedragger: btw maersk (some related ports) is down due to new "ransomware" (orange website says it's the same nsa "eternalblue" windows vuln)
sina: "If you sign malware with a fake self-signed Microsoft certificate, several major AV's on VirusTotal will ignore it"
☟︎ sina: following affected: @kaspersky @arcabit @Malwarebytes @TrendMicro @Webroot @zonealarm
sina: majority of infections have been in Ukraine, there are screenshots of lots of Ukranian stuff (grocery store terminals, train stations, etc)
sina: whoever wrote it didn't suck like WannaCry authors and implemented lateral movement
sina: so it can go inside the "crunchy on outside, soft inside" networks
sina: ikea made awesome solar concentrator for 5 fiat units
sina: OH YEAH, going back to the ransomware that hit Maersk
sina: Chernobyl is running on manual monitoring after their systems got hit!
sina: ha that is interesting, but the ikea thing is just a $5 polished metal bowl that has been setting stuff in peoples houses on fire
sina: will check logs for more lel
sina: live your dreams mircea_popescu! set all that stuff on fire :P
sina: mmmm bbq I love me some bbq pork
sina: makes sense, you only just made it to fire, still another 7000 years before GPS :D :P
sina: ok for real time to vegetate now, enjoy the day all, I will spend some time on rejigging gossipdthing later and probably be back with more dumb questions at that point
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 03:14 sina: "If you sign malware with a fake self-signed Microsoft certificate, several major AV's on VirusTotal will ignore it"
PeterL: do antiviruses count as something that is promistronic?
a111: Logged on 2017-04-11 00:22 asciilifeform: when whole thing is excel -- the 60 y.o. buffett at the top, theoretically understands the flow.
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: (ticker [--bid|--ask|--last|--high|--low|--avg|--vol] [--currency XXX] [--market <market>|all]) -- Return pretty-printed ticker. Default market is Bitfinex. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. It is up to you to make sure the code is a valid (1 more message)
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Error: 'birds' is not a valid currency code.
sina: thanks to clarification from mircea_popescu Framedragger and asciilifeform I have refactored for statelessness, which led to a significant amount of unnecessary code being deleted!
☟︎ sina: currently only "standard" messages are supported
sina: but all traffic is sent as RSA payloads with nothing at all in plaintext ever
sina: everything now stateless
sina: FWIW, what I have now is also nothing like the spec on trilema.com :P
jurov: asciilifeform: didja look into sewing machine pedals, btw? they seem to be designed solidly, for all-day use
☟︎ sina: oh yeah saw this on twitter thought tmsr would be amused/interested
sina: "It’s not crazy for OpenSSL to redesign and simplify its CSPRNG. It is silly to make it MORE complicated." from tptacek
☟︎ sina: I prefer atheists myself
sina: or at least those that have been cast from the church in disgrace! :P
shinohai: I can assure you that pic isn't sanctioned by the vatican at all
mod6: been havin fun workin on gossip?
sina: I was thinking about the latest iteration which is much simpler, I think I might try and convert the TCP bit to UDP tomorrow
sina: hows trb stuff comin along
sina: mod6: haha I just remembered I was reading logs yesterday and found one line where you said you don't like python :P
mod6: It's goin, been doing some testing on a experimental vpatch here as of late.
mod6: sina: naw, don't like python.
sina: it made me think about how I pretty much default to it for most problems above the complexity threshold of single line bash things
sina: I do think it makes a very good prototyping tool
sina: but do prefer strongly typed langs after knocking something together
sina: I see here everyone seems to know/use lisp and it's a lang I have almost 0 exposure to
☟︎ mod6: python got me with its for loop else case.
mod6: i did start getting into scheme last year though.
mod6: i don't use emacs or clisp or anything like that.
sina: asciilifeform: sure that is understood as general principle, it's unsuitable for really anything low level
sina: mod6: pls clarify "for loop else case"?
sina: I only learned recently that python was created for use on Amoeba OS
mod6: 've had a splendid morning
mod6: asciilifeform: for loop, with else case.
mod6: it got me, way back in the day.
mod6: anyway, that was the only thing really with python. most of it seems fine.
sina: mircea_popescu: mornin. I rejigged the gossipthing. I think what I have now reflects more closely what was discussed earlier. however I also think the spec vastly differs so may be worthwhile adding a disclaimer to the existing one or writing an entirely new one
sina: anyhoos, past by bedtime, good evenin
mircea_popescu: sina : that's how this stuff goes, and wehy someone biting bullet and writing an impl, even if he writes it in php, is worth it. was deliberately demonstrated with the fabulous hash function, and generally.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 09:12 sina: thanks to clarification from mircea_popescu Framedragger and asciilifeform I have refactored for statelessness, which led to a significant amount of unnecessary code being deleted!
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 11:23 jurov: asciilifeform: didja look into sewing machine pedals, btw? they seem to be designed solidly, for all-day use
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 14:34 sina: I see here everyone seems to know/use lisp and it's a lang I have almost 0 exposure to
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 14:38 asciilifeform: soooo asciilifeform was taking a morning walk and saw a sight straight out of a mircea_popescu article. teenage chick standing in doorway, her mother (?) packing something into car, in front yard. chick then lifts her shirt and reveals naked cunt, and smiles. mother goes apeshit, screaming in, i think, portuguese, even now, i can almost hear it through open window.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-23 18:15 asciilifeform: js-of-mp: because the wrongmusic plays not at the bar, but permanently on her face..
mircea_popescu: let me explain to you how the duty of fucking works, because you're perhaps unaware.
mircea_popescu: so, the young woman wants to individuate, gives her cunt to male, old woman / mother goes apeshit, male protects cuntlet from her mother. this is how it goes.
mircea_popescu: you can't simply walk away / pretend it's not your problem. it is your problem.
mircea_popescu: i dunno dood, old women. who the fuck understands the mechanism of their trying to ruin the world.
mircea_popescu: the charge of the bacteriologist may well be that, but entirely different item, a charge.
mircea_popescu: this is the important point here : that you're not attracted to the daugther's cunt. god knows there is naught more abundant on this earth. BUT you are to repress the mother into political irrelevancy.
mircea_popescu: i'll say this much : that never in my history, with ANY woman, was it the case the mother didn't go some variant of apeshit and i repressed her into irrelevancy.
mircea_popescu: even with women that were orphans, or didn't talk to their mothers in years.
mircea_popescu: how, specifically, it goes varies by case. very often, at least in my youth, it was "that mp, he's such a great guy, not like the other vagabonds you keep bringing home!!1". ie, they self-repressed.
mircea_popescu: which is very patently there, they doin't know it, but biology dun care.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-09 01:44 mircea_popescu: ~if i am~ a drug dealer and i burn down your house, you'll what ? file a police report ? go on the local news network with a teary eyed "no one could have predicted that if i get pissy with people who break the law for a living i might end up with a burned down house" ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, plenty of kids today suckle two mothers as it were.
mircea_popescu: but in any case : the socialist rot starts with permitting mothers to go apeshit near their daughter's bare cunt. the swamp drain starts there.
mircea_popescu: it's the whole through which "the world doth not belong to you" goes into pantsuit skull.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 13:17 sina: "It’s not crazy for OpenSSL to redesign and simplify its CSPRNG. It is silly to make it MORE complicated." from tptacek
a111: Logged on 2016-08-17 16:54 asciilifeform: all i solidly know of the tptacek fella is his reaction to phuctor.
mircea_popescu: this "arguing in the general for opposite particulars" byzantine "wisdom" ie stupidtity is just about all us by mass now
mircea_popescu: opposite i mean to the general. like "making rng more complex is silly -- here, use tyhis broken one"
mircea_popescu: bitch, that "silly" does not map on your "use this broken one"
mircea_popescu: "oh, but the only reason i even discuss that generazl point is to try and sell you cheetos"
mircea_popescu: see, what do you want dirigible for. alreadfy got one, looking down through telescope at teh stone age folk
mircea_popescu: "showers require prohibitive amounts of mule-carried water to operate"
mircea_popescu: it's almost just as good, and it smells like roses a donkey shat on
a111: Logged on 2017-05-23 01:06 asciilifeform: ( the grade outputted by the 'hungrier' tests appears to be in direct proportion to sample size, and very little else; and FG, /dev/urandom, various fashionable prng, intel's mysterymeatrng, and several others, all exhibit same effect, 100% pass begins somewhere b/w 1-3GB sample size. )
mircea_popescu: well running 1mn times over 1mb is not "bettering" the mb
mircea_popescu: fucking stupid camp. there's a guarantee real random stream will vary from 01010101 by some count.
mircea_popescu: p-value worship, as such, numerically. i betcha if i told him i have a dentistry certificate he'd be impressed.
mircea_popescu: bcause nobody can ever be told they'\re not fucking good enough omfgbbq
mircea_popescu: yes. no child left behind always means "the kids you really like getting procusted"
mircea_popescu: you ever been in one odf those ? they're ~useless for aiming
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mega-marksmanship << lel
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 16:50 mircea_popescu: i read gb.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> apparently in usg also there are 'untouchable' folx. << Care to do a qntra? Your interpretation seems more interesting than mine.
BingoBoingo: In other citizen complaints: "Regarding recent posts about a suspicious white panel van that has been spotted ... was contacted by the owner who recognized his vehicle after seeing the posts on social media. He is a local construction worker who had pulled over to take a phone call after leaving a job site near the original complaint location... this was a false alarm."
BingoBoingo: ^ Workvehicles now assumed to be crime scenes
BingoBoingo: ^ Pulling over to make phone call like you aren't a suicidal psycho bitch, nao suspicious
ben_vulpes: best part, "their results are just completely out of the standard accepted by minimum wage hike advocates as reasonable"
jurov: a parallel with economy struck me. economists invented something they call "value" and are jerking off on it it ever since
jurov: and cryptographers just invented -- entropy.
deedbot: palatine voiced for 30 minutes.
palatine: that's an interesting question
palatine: just reading trilema and contravex and followed the lead here
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 17:55 asciilifeform: ( this was very near the time when FUCKGOATS was beginning to happen , and it took over asciilifeform's head for a long while )
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 21:15 asciilifeform: in other noose, in 6236676 phuctor moduli, still just the same old 2 fermat-factorables as 6 mo. ago.