log☇︎
530 entries in 0.543s
mircea_popescu: metzger could be that blind schmuck in systemd could be gavin etc.
assbot: Anybody know how I can stop systemd /var/log/journal from filling ever partition it's in?
asciilifeform: one ends up with a mindbogglingly-heavy ubuntu-style thing, complete with 'systemd'
mircea_popescu: i guess it'd be sort of dress-rehearsal for systemd
asciilifeform: it actually has a closer resemblance to the perverse programming languages discussed earlier in this thread, than to systemd
asciilifeform: mr mold did not, last i heard, ever publish anything analogous to systemd
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what was the curtis yarvin brand of systemd called ? i forget ?
the_scourge: asciilifeform: if you're implying it's not lightweight, only systemd and the kernel are installed off the bat. and some guys have done work on a systemdless setup
asciilifeform: danielpbarron has probably noticed that pieces of 'systemd' crash every few hrs. on that box
mircea_popescu: in any case purge that systemd atrocity , as a matter of principle if not necessarily practicality.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: 'NixOS 14.12 “Caterpillar” has been released, the third stable release branch. It brings Linux 3.14, systemd 217, Glibc 2.20, KDE 4.14.1, and much more.'
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: this gives you a rather heavyweight linux - with systemd, even.
mircea_popescu: trinque: you want to build your visa? build it on bitcoin, but don't systemd the thing and decide it must have a visa built in << that's not a bnad angle.
trinque: you want to build your visa? build it on bitcoin, but don't systemd the thing and decide it must have a visa built in ☟︎
assbot: What's New in systemd, 2015 Edition ... ( http://bit.ly/1F6vh7L )
mircea_popescu: http://ma.ttias.be/whats-new-systemd-2015-edition/#comment-10997 just in case.
mircea_popescu: systemd crap, is.
asciilifeform: the systemd folks are emulating apple, not (intentionally) microshit
mircea_popescu: "systemd wrote their own dhcp library"
mircea_popescu: "networkd: because networking is such a basic function of the OS, he believes it should be in systemd"
assbot: What's New in systemd, 2015 Edition ... ( http://bit.ly/1DeyeUG )
trinque: http://ma.ttias.be/whats-new-systemd-2015-edition/?h <<< LOL
mircea_popescu: but then again it works out : we're not systemd devs.
assbot: man I'm glad the systemd devs all have SSDs. http://t.co/92rGdSitBF
BingoBoingo: <danielpbarron> someone said mint worked, maybe i'll try that << Systemd free, but... better venue for introducing microsoft refugees to not MS. Not really next step to get better at *nix
mircea_popescu: "Also, I used to read their logs on IRC, and there was a guy called 'pankkake' (also in btctalk) who seems to have vanished. I think its because they disagreed regarding the fork thing, so if anyone could share the light on his views, that'd be interesting too since I used to value his thoughts." <<< wasn't that over the systemd fork of linux !?
BingoBoingo still reeling over last week's discovery that of all distros Linux Mint appears as though it will be a systemd holdout.
assbot: Linux Mint 18 Could Adopt Systemd - Softpedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1vneQUu )
BingoBoingo: So... of all people newbie distro Linux mint if holding off on any systemd for two years http://news.softpedia.com/news/Linux-Mint-18-Will-Probably-Adopt-Systemd-470364.shtml
BingoBoingo will never understand Debian sanely assuming someone assuming someone may want it for space travel, while also thinking someone would take systemd onto a spaceship
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: I realize that, but no systemd should be considered a feature IMO. One I forgot to list.
gabriel_laddel: Oh, I should note - no systemd.
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: systemd
asciilifeform: decimation: iirc arch linux is a systemd-ized turd.
BingoBoingo: Prolly going to fork into "systemd-node" and "System D Nodes"
mircea_popescu: all crowd source projects constructed around an asshole succeed. like linux. and like systemd.
mircea_popescu: " dude it's so great to be back on windows, seriously" << fifty million "experts" running systemd
davout: the way i see this whole conundrum evolve is that eventually systemd will be renamed 'ubuntu'
Adlai wonders when system d will begin using systemd
mircea_popescu: ". It’s growing all the time and now handles logging, device hotplugging events, networking, scheduled actions (like Cron) and much more. Almost every major Linux distribution has adopted Systemd, but there are still some unhappy campers out there,"
mircea_popescu: "Few pieces of software in history have been so fiercely debated as Systemd. "
decimation: later on he describes people who like systemd as "progressive" and those who reject it as 'conservative'
decimation: "So we started writing Systemd, and Red Hat didn’t like it at all. Red Hat management said: no, we’re going for Upstart, don’t work on that. So I said, OK, I’ll work on it in my free time. Eventually Red Hat realised that the problems we solved with Systemd were relevant, and were problems that needed to be solved, and that you couldn’t ignore them."
BingoBoingo: It's systemd all over again. Work is their enemy. Enemy is merely interested in producing anti-work.
assbot: Fedora Development -- Re: timedatex replacing systemd-timedated for NTP packages ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZDB9X )
mircea_popescu: no wonder ubuntu and systemd are what's left on that smoldering pyre.
asciilifeform: at least the computing turdmeisters don't (yet) prove systemd superiority by photograph << actually.
mircea_popescu: at least the computing turdmeisters don't (yet) prove systemd superiority by photographic cpus with tomograph units
mircea_popescu: systemd, perhaps.
assbot: Logged on 21-12-2014 18:02:01; asciilifeform: which, it turns out, the systemd pushers reflexively defended as a feature.
assbot: Logged on 21-12-2014 11:41:37; jurov: bwahaha SYSTEMD IS ALWAYS RIGHT
asciilifeform: which, it turns out, the systemd pushers reflexively defended as a feature. ☟︎
asciilifeform: somebody admits, it appears, that this was actually a bug in systemd
assbot: Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd? ... ( http://bit.ly/1AUdoWQ )
assbot: Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd? ... ( http://bit.ly/1AUc1Yh )
assbot: Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd? ... ( http://bit.ly/1xBn23b )
jurov: bwahaha SYSTEMD IS ALWAYS RIGHT ☟︎
assbot: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd? ... ( http://bit.ly/1HjDvcg )
asciilifeform: only remembered 'systemd' now because happened to switch on a machine in my collection, a 'google chromebook a15', based on single-chip 'arm.' afaik, no clean (traditional init) linux distro has ever been published for said machine.
asciilifeform is ever more convinced that systemd, with its default setting of vomiting syslog to every ptty console (!), constantly, is really an elaborate trolling gag project
undata: I tried systemd and bizarre breakage occurred which I couldn't be bothered to debug
BingoBoingo: Yeah systemd eventually is supposed to eat the entire userland, so Pulse audio works better or something.
undata: I've been doing some reading on systemd; I had no idea just how many services it ate
mats_cd03: now, to look for another distro now that debian's been converted to systemd....
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I said systemd was a fungus. I agree, I don't see how this kind of thing is tolerable. Politically, I think Linus is up against a wall to some degree, because he knows redhat, inc pays for most of the kernel 'zeks'
asciilifeform: whichever one of you said 'linux is a corpse, and systemd is a fungus growing on it' was correct.
decimation: speaking of which there's some amusement re: systemd and surrounds: http://lwn.net/Articles/619068/
mircea_popescu: decimation basically this systemd is a ms windows of 1990s reboot.
decimation: when asked why they were not going to support a standalone udev, Lennart wrote: "Anyway, as soon as kdbus is merged this i how we will maintain udev, you have ample time to figure out some solution that works for you, but we will not support the udev-on-netlink case anymore. I see three options: a) fork things, b) live with systemd, c) if hate systemd that much, but love udev so much, then implement an alternative userspace for kdbus
decimation: they got the idea (probably from Lennart) that it would be a good idea to make udev depend on systemd
assbot: When kdbus will become merged in kernel, using udev without systemd will become impossible. Lennart shuts down discussion calling any opposition "haters". : linux ... ( http://bit.ly/12e8Sad )
decimation: http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2a2tz5/when_kdbus_will_become_merged_in_kernel_using/ << reddit thread discussing some details re: systemd and udev
asciilifeform: this is 'systemd' all over again.
mircea_popescu: and so you know, to quote pankkake, "So, we'll see if the end-users actually want to commit resources on not using systemd."
assbot: oss-sec: Re: CVE-request: systemd-resolved DNS cache poisoning ... ( http://bit.ly/1zNRZyO )
mircea_popescu: in five years people will be asking me why they can't load qntra and instead of pointing to braindamaged "code is poetry" wordpress version 1-4, i'll point at braindamaged "code is poetry" wordpress versions 1-28, AND at systemd "hey, you can talk directly to the dns resolver, because it's on a fixed port, and the legit server can't even race you because it is standards compliant and waits while you rape the stack.
mircea_popescu: later in that thread, "(This systemd component is optional, I strongly recommend not to ship it. It's not even possible right now to dump the cache contents to debug such issues.)"
mircea_popescu: holy shit is there something that's done right in systemd?
mircea_popescu: sees the query from victims upstream DNS, but since systemd-resolved also uses fix
assbot: oss-sec: CVE-request: systemd-resolved DNS cache poisoning ... ( http://bit.ly/11ocaaB )
mats_cd03: http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2014/q4/592 << another day, another systemd inflicted bug
decimation: actually, the bigger question about systemd dependencies is this: what dependency of systemd is actually worth bothering about?
assbot: GSoC 2014: Systemd replacement utilities (systembsd) ... ( http://bit.ly/1tnMxxj )
mircea_popescu: basically, gut it, use the remaining shell as a systemd-standardized interface for sane components.
mircea_popescu: one question left hanging in my head : once all the effort trying to push systemd is spent, why not just make a clone that's been shot in the head. specifically, that runs as an instance even if the root doesn't have it, and that masquerades as systemd to satisfy fake dependencies.
mircea_popescu: so basically systemd should be renamed kudzu
decimation: * a few cycles of personal systemd experience
mircea_popescu: it's not just that systemd is a piece of shit.
decimation: at any rate, asciilifeform makes a good point, the main ding against systemd is that its main author has written several well-known turds, thus the fruit of the tree
decimation: but systemd is worse, in the sense that it adds a layer of obfuscation
mircea_popescu: systemd ?
decimation: speaking of which mircea_popescu: so you called it with the debian GR re: systemd, they 'voted' to make init scripts 'optional'
BingoBoingo: http://linux.slashdot.org/story/14/11/19/043259/debian-votes-against-mandating-non-systemd-compatibility
asciilifeform: if folks understood 'do not meet the enemy halfway' we would never have even heard of systemd.
mircea_popescu: decimation one of the most interesting aspects of systemd is the irrationality of the proponents. it's almost as if you're discussing theology with the flat earth society or geophysics with the global warming cult of washington dc.
decimation: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/11/msg00133.html << lol, this kind of bellyaching over.. systemd?
decimation: I might try 'funtoo' if he is serious about no systemd
decimation: http://www.funtoo.org/Funtoo_Linux_FAQ << "Part of the distinctiveness of Funtoo Linux is its dependency-based OpenRC init system, so changing this would make it something other than Funtoo Linux. So we do not support systemd as part of Funtoo Linux. "
mircea_popescu: if this turns into another "you're mean and a cult because systemd" thing i swear...
assbot: oss-sec: CVE-request: systemd-resolved DNS cache poisoning