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billymg: mircea_popescu: http://billymg.com/2019/09/additional-tests-for-mp-wp-now-according-to-spec/comment-page-1/#comment-50
lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-09-26#1938254 << depends on the experience
ericbot: Logged on 2019-09-26 11:50:37 mircea_popescu: think abougt it, isn't a priori post something you'd want ? :D
mircea_popescu: aite, /me shall bbs on the travel console!
spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1937811 <-- tyvm!
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 07:30:11 mircea_popescu: !!deed http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=YaNz
spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-26#1938376 <-- hm. I suppose feedbot could do something along the lines of "talk (via PM) only to people who are already +v in the channels where bot is listening"; either way, there's currently no strict enforcement in place, I'll add something if/when it becomes necessary
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-26 13:19:48 diana_coman: mircea_popescu: once the new voice model comes in, is the L1 redefined accordingly too? iirc there are some priviledges such as "can use feedbot & deedbot only if in L1", right? spyked or trinque might correct me here.
spyked: in other news, I'm in the process of standing up a mp-wp for thetarpit and migrating posts from the current platform there. will post a genesis for the current blog later today and then work out a plan for migration
spyked: initial investigation shows that that indeed shouldn't be too painful, probably along the lines of wp_insert_post for each post. will still take some manual labour to verify that posts display well, but that's not burning, so I can do it as I go along with other work.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-13 13:02:11 mircea_popescu: anyway : i'm willing to bet migration ~will~ be trivial ; and i am very curious to find out why not if indeed not
spyked bbl, diving into saecular liquishit
feedbot: http://ossasepia.com/2019/09/27/pretty-petty-particles-notes-on-graphics-in-eulora-vi/ << Ossa Sepia -- Pretty Petty Particles (Notes on Graphics in Eulora, VI)
feedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y06/0a3-thetarpit-lbs-genesis.html << The Tar Pit -- The Tar Pit Lisp Blog Scaffolding genesis
feedbot: http://ossasepia.com/2019/09/27/ossabots-hoster-after-1-month/ << Ossa Sepia -- Ossabot's Hoster After 1 Month
asciilifeform: diana_coman: sounds notbad for a heathen shop, except for the last part. perhaps if you write to the fella and describe wot, he'll get in.
asciilifeform: 49 € / mo. for e.g. trb box, aint bad, imho.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: I just fired up an email to them, as the article promisses
asciilifeform: diana_coman: neato
diana_coman: once I get their response either way, I'll update the article; let's see.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: outta curiosity, were the btc receiver addrs they genned, trb-compat ?
asciilifeform: oh nm it's in the article
asciilifeform: a++
diana_coman: well, tbh I wouldn't consider it "accepts btc" if not; but yes, that's why I wrote it black on white.
asciilifeform: right
asciilifeform has habit similar to mircea_popescu's of commenting prior to fully eating $text
diana_coman: asciilifeform: re price, iirc 49 eur/mo is not ssd.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: do you recall what cost ssd ?
diana_coman: asciilifeform: iirc it was as an add on, some additional 15-25 eur/month depending on size of ssd
asciilifeform: diana_coman: in recent years, asciilifeform's experience was 'trb-grade box is ~100 $ / mo just about anywhere' , so consistent with this.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in misc. strange from the lint traps .
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-27#1938420 << spyked this is pretty interesting. is that a coupla 100kB of base64'd fontisms in there ? ( and, apparently buncha perl-genned ???! in 1 of the cl libs ?! )
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-27 11:50:01 feedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y06/0a3-thetarpit-lbs-genesis.html << The Tar Pit -- The Tar Pit Lisp Blog Scaffolding genesis
diana_coman: does anyone know what eudev is? (apparently some gentoo fork of udev working with openrc but unclear at this point if it's at all acceptable on a system)
asciilifeform: diana_coman: it's this.
snsabot: Logged on 2017-12-19 18:23:09 trinque: "eudev" exists as an alternative to the systemd-udev. dunno what else the heathens stapled to systemd meanwhile
asciilifeform: i.e. the item that used to be 'udev' before the fungus got to it.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: ah, so it's at least not-fungus
asciilifeform: diana_coman: depending on what's happened in last 2y since i last snapshotted gentoo, it ~could~ have spores in it
asciilifeform: diana_coman: are you sewing a gentoo ?
diana_coman: asciilifeform: no, it's for the irc task, I gave thimbronion the list of acceptable and banned stuff; he had this older gentoo on which he had said eudev and unsure about it.
asciilifeform: aa
asciilifeform: diana_coman: he appears to know about asciilifeform's orig. fumigated gentoo .
asciilifeform: diana_coman: which, observe, bans the infested udev among other associated fungi.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: aha; thanks.
diana_coman: !!key maxim_mivo
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/26F8F009F5A6D8BBEC2EF6FC2B5C010E447C6241.asc
diana_coman: !!v 66FFA5A46B5E978FC493ED23C9F09595D69C7BE45162327D8B00B0AEC54F6543
deedbot: diana_coman rated maxim_mivo 2 << says he's CEO of MivoCloud, my ISP in Chisinau where Ossabot resides.
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/09/2011-to-2017-idevices-jailbroken-via-apple-bootrom-exploit/ << Qntra -- 2011 To 2017 iDevices Jailbroken Via "Apple Bootrom" Exploit
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in Retard on the other side of the River: http://archive.is/jIoIS "El Banco Central difundió el listado de las personas que compraron más de USD 10.000 por mes"
mp_en_viaje: hhhola!
BingoBoingo: Hola
asciilifeform: wb mp_en_viaje !
mp_en_viaje: yay ty
mp_en_viaje was planning to get on earlier but then... well, things got captivating.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: can i persuade you to pop into #asciilifeform-test for 5min ? ( to see format of crosspost-indication-enabled bot that i'ma be rotating in tonight )
asciilifeform: resetting bot is painful enuff operation that would like to get these 100% nailed before deploy
mp_en_viaje: this BingoBoingo story of uruguay sounds quite like ye olde sovok kommunalka system
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 13:11:29 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we weren't even in hruscheba, but in the 19th-c-converted-to-kommunalka . still 100% square walls.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, cool stuff.
asciilifeform: ty for test mp_en_viaje . there's also a raw-all knob (to make syncs easier) , contains all logged material from all enabled chans.
asciilifeform: with previous bot, sync was gnarly, had to do each chan separately always.
asciilifeform: for thread-completeness, let's put mp_en_viaje's test here ( #a-test is a garbage chan and aint logged )
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: The Kommunalka Uruguaya in the form of Pensiones are targeted strictly to single people. Very similar to Ye Olde Boarding house without the actual provision of board.
mp_en_viaje: with the taxi once hitting a high speed near 30 km/h << fucking makes my skin crawl. the car AVERAGED like 110
mp_en_viaje: it's stil la pleasure to read bb prose. both well researched and well written, "The primary center of activity in this area is the Punta Carretas Shopping where many of the Frente Amplio's elders were incarcerated at some point." top keks
mp_en_viaje: Asking 185,000 USD, apparently under contract,94 m² << but this is like $200 per sqft ?!
asciilifeform: they all seem to cost 1-1.5k $ / sq m., aha. tho BingoBoingo seems to have found that they haggle .
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-26 18:55:50 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The widely reported years ago on numerous blogs conventional wisdom is that everything is for sale and ~40-60 percent negotiated off the asking prices was a common practice. This needs to be investigated if moving forward.
mp_en_viaje: that's seriously queens and shit
asciilifeform 'ruined for life' re prices when went to ro, nao outraged that errywhere else seems to cost 10x moar
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, ikr ? literally, if you're willing to pay 20-30 a sqft you get to pick.
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, very nice work ; but this seems untenable on the face. i mean, even the san francisco "premium" bezzleworld's been losing 2-3-5% a year, each year, since 2015 or so. and 2s and 3s ealirer, 5s and above these days, 2019 may well close more like 7%
mp_en_viaje: and, literally, the sort of prices they quote will get you a much nicer thing in kew gardens or w/e.
asciilifeform: rright but you wouldn't want to isp in kew .
mp_en_viaje: to not even talk of what it'd get you in say thailand, or vietnam.
asciilifeform: iirc BingoBoingo actually investigated south asia when initial isp expedition. they have oddity where bw to ~outside~ of region is astronomically priced.
mp_en_viaje: anyway. this will have to suspend at least until after ....
mp_en_viaje: hey asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=f%3Amirc+%22+east%22&chan=trilema << why is this returning "at least" ?
asciilifeform: lessee:
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: aa, word boundarism dunwork yet
mp_en_viaje: anyway. this will have to suspend at least until after http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-26#1931292
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-26 19:09:00 mircea_popescu: will be going later, but advanced reports look pretty wow.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: properly making it go will require opening b00k re pgism
mp_en_viaje: after current trip i intend to go south later this year, istanbul, syria, mebbe dip into iran, all the way to cairo
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: atm ""ism only prevents partial matches inside words.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: pretty neat, always wanted to see a mp_en_viaje reportage of iran & co
mp_en_viaje: i have faint memories of incredible real estate deals from decades ago, back when young man mp was completely uninterested.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-26#1938387 << HUGe fucking problem. cabs have pretty much died as a functional human activity.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-26 18:45:13 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 1 immediate observation -- the cabs were so cheap , transport dun seem to be major problem ( from asciilifeform's admittedly brief expedition )
asciilifeform always had vaguely positive impression of modern iran. tho possibly simply on acct of its abuse by the reich
mp_en_viaje: the sort of people you can hire to do the work are to ofuckign moronic to qualify as cows, no farm would hire them to be the livestock
mp_en_viaje: i used to own cars i mostly wasn't using, on the idea that "whatever, nothing wrong with owning it, can always set it to cabwork"
mp_en_viaje: nowadays, gotta own because wtf gonna do, cabs dun work.
asciilifeform: i suppose the ex-sovok phf cabbies all finally died of old age, eh
asciilifeform: *phd lol
mp_en_viaje: yep.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: fwiw over here in north reich , they're ~solidly india/paki
asciilifeform: some nigeria
mp_en_viaje: it's dead, the whole "oh, cab's great, talk to cabbie get all the infos, solve all the problems, what you want in your life is like two dozen medallioned cars and the people who work them" is as much an artefact of aforetimes as "man who can cut veal"
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, same thing in germany.
asciilifeform: hm i thought in germany turks were the 'pakis'
mp_en_viaje: nope, not no mo.
asciilifeform: damn.
mp_en_viaje: turks got a cooler country than germans now.
mp_en_viaje: it pains me to say it, but it's a fact : cabs aren't really a thing anymore. uber-stupid now.
asciilifeform: iguess it wasn't from 'empty space' that the robotic cabs crackpottery began to seem appealing
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-26#1938390 << but you can't. because it's raining. or because "the game". or because fucktard "can't find the address". or because etcetera. the contemporary 20yo, always and everywhere the driving force of this job (if never the demographic majority) is not mentally capable,
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-26 18:51:43 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if can ride across city were 20bux here, i'dve sold my wheeled coffin long ago...
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: dunno re orcistans, but over here they ask you to type the addr into a pnojetron and then blindly go where it points.
asciilifeform: so, already ~half robotic cabby.
mp_en_viaje: this is the insescapable pit of the problem : back in sovok 70s, an array of young men was +ev. may take some cleanning / training / tooling / whatever, but, basically, ev.
mp_en_viaje: back in 70s usgistani, idem.
mp_en_viaje: today, they're worse than their weight in fungus.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, myeah
mp_en_viaje: dispatch doesn't even have two way link anymore
mp_en_viaje: it's not dispatch, it's excel windows in space, they "manage". wtf manage ?
mp_en_viaje has pretty much given up on cabs.
mp_en_viaje: this is like buzz aldrin giving up on rocketry.
asciilifeform: the 'uber' & related chumpatrons, also appeal to the ~penniless by precomputing the price ( and offering to seat randos for cutting cost in ~half) , so apparently slowly killing traditional cabs.
asciilifeform: i would not have imagined that there are people who 'i'ma take the cab if its costs 15.00 but not 15.50' but apparently they must exist somewhere
mp_en_viaje: actuaklly, they do this insane thing where the price can vary significantly.
asciilifeform: ( nor would have imagined that there'd be demand for 'kommunalka' cabs, where some rando d00d can end up inside with you -- why not get into the train then ?? -- but apparently this yes also ! )
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: it varies by factor of 2+x! depending on 'pressure'
mp_en_viaje: which sounds like smart capitalism on the face, but in practice only drives idiocy, because
mp_en_viaje: eh, where's the trilema piece where i discuss the retarded whores doing "fantasy football" in their head, judging "how much X Y or Z '''should get'''" based on how much this one chick allegedly once got ?
mp_en_viaje: it encorages the broken mental processes of the plebs, in any case.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: it's 'furniture-fueled furnace capitalism' -- offloads cost of purchase (and they want the driver to buy it, ideally, via their credit service) & maintenance of the auto , on the driver , removes ~all 'fat margin' so price wildly fluctuates
asciilifeform: 'uber'ist is , last i knew, req'd to buy new auto erry 3y !
asciilifeform: 'or would look unbeautiful' or sumthing
mp_en_viaje: they "feel like suckers" when working for "less than the max", because obviously. then they get 1/10 the work, like fucktarded romanians.
mp_en_viaje: then idle hands make devil's work, because he only works 1/10 of the workday he deskills
mp_en_viaje: soon enough you have an inept usgtard on your hands, driving your cab for no reason.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform took ride in coupla dozen 'ubers' etc , talked to the wheel-turners , found that most of'em have day jobs in bureaucracy somewhere, it's an after-hrs gig
mp_en_viaje: but whatever, this is a point experimentally estgablished during the fucking plague, a good seven centuries ago : permitting the plebs to contribute in ANY WAY to the formation of the price of their own labour destroys the economy
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, it's dating.
mp_en_viaje: the ~only practical function of the "taxi" apps is they're disavowed dating apps for the liberated dumb cunts posing as careerwomen
mp_en_viaje: it delivers a "young dude with a car" at their door. which is what the orc female dream is anyway. now they don't have to go to club.
asciilifeform: well dude-with-mortgaged-car
mp_en_viaje: spend same ~5 bux on a 3 hour campari, except doesn't have to get fat ass off couch. sits in car.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, if he's dumb enough to do that, he'll be dumb enough to get her a ring on laywaya too
mp_en_viaje: it's a dating app.
asciilifeform can picture this.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: plox to expand re the plague if got time
mp_en_viaje: you recall the black death ?
asciilifeform: 'like it was yesterday!' lol
mp_en_viaje: killed like 2/3 of the workforce ; as a result the fucktarded peons started agitating about how tyhey should get to choose where to work, get more wages etc
asciilifeform: but yes, in marxist cosmography is supposed to have 'given labour teeth by cutting pressure'
mp_en_viaje: this was tried for like 2-3 years, then king came out with soil binding and gag orders.
mp_en_viaje: notthing to do with 'pressure', everything to do with imbecility of the "working man".
mp_en_viaje: very much a "sexy project" problem.
mp_en_viaje: what idiot decides he wants to do is always fucking stupid.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform knows slightly moar re how serfdom was phased in in ru than out west. was 'staged' process, and got going in earnest under peter, who decided to create gigatonne of newly-enobled henchmen (modernize , fleets, etc) and then faced q 'how to give'em peasants'
asciilifeform: previously were serfs, but could not be sold
asciilifeform: but can't make noble house from scratch w/out equipping it w/ peasants. so 'wat-do'. was resolved in favour of something quite like ameri-slavery.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: iirc in most of west europes, serfs not sellable..?
asciilifeform: ( other detail re orcs -- initially, was possible for serfs to move at certain times 'day of xyz saint' etc. then phased out. )
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, sellable. with the property.
asciilifeform: right
mp_en_viaje: not sellable appart because wtf, it's ike selling car without wheels
mp_en_viaje: ie, "not sellable" because statutorily worthless. a very wise tack.
mp_en_viaje: otherwise idiots' first on the list of idiocies they like to imaginarily enact, "value in human life"
mp_en_viaje: possibly the most important human contribution to understanding of human affairs : the first, and the most important possible law is the one that interdicts valuation of human life. not in the sense of it being priceless, but in the sense of it being worthless.
asciilifeform: the ru variant seems a++ until remember that erry rebellion (pugachev's being only the most expensive to kill, hence prominently remembered) insta-vacuumed up massive army of disgruntled meat robot
mp_en_viaje: precisely what is meant by original sin.
asciilifeform: iirc in west europistan landsknecht did brisk biz being called in to clean these up
mp_en_viaje: yes, so wicked is the nature of cunt byproducts, every stupidity instantly vacuums up oodlebunches of lychen
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: observation aint re 'ohnoez serfdom wicked' but re 'total cost of operation'(tm)
asciilifeform: i.e. you need lotsa pro exterminators, not cheap
mp_en_viaje: not serfdom is wicked. human nature is wicked, in that the converse statement of d-k problem is the one you gave above :
mp_en_viaje: any stupidity instantly gets idiot support.
mp_en_viaje: "disgruntled" my foot. wilfully misrepresenting themselves.
asciilifeform: i dunno that d00d who picks up a spear and decides 'go out with a bang' when starving, is necessarily 'idiot'
mp_en_viaje: vice-versa.
mp_en_viaje: idiot, given the choice between "fix some idiocy inside" and "fuck up some shit outside", ALWAYS goes for door #2.
asciilifeform: how do you 'fix inside' e.g. 3 consecutive dud harvests ?
mp_en_viaje: fucking hell, go fucking discovering america. raise rabbits. what the fuck, "what we always did doesnt work" "do something else" "no, we just want to do what we always did" "but it doesn't work" "it must!"
asciilifeform: 'go discovering x' req's breaking outta the konzentrationslager neh
mp_en_viaje: "well, whether it must or it mustn't is irrelevant" "down with the king!"
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, what the fuck konzentrabullshit, nobody ever gave a shit.
asciilifeform: what then means 'were bound to the soil'
mp_en_viaje: that ~another lord~ was not alloed to take thenm ~as plebs~.
asciilifeform: i dunno re e.g. germanies, but in ru there were catchers a la alabama etc
mp_en_viaje: wtf, who makes rules to cockroaches. the rules rule the lords wth.
mp_en_viaje: sure. and where did they catch them ?
mp_en_viaje: "on the manor over the hill" "wow. and what were they doing there ?" "the same thing as here" "holy shit shocking"
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: similarly to alabama, i.e. not far. cuz it wasn't as if they escaped on motorcycles , ha
mp_en_viaje: gimme a break.
mp_en_viaje: the whole idea was that livestock being worthless, moving it across the land was just a waste of fuel, so don't get the indiana livestock working on your farm in alabama.
asciilifeform: for completeness, 'what did they then do' wasn't always 'eh same thing as grandfather, try to pull turnips from mud', but sometimes instead brigandage
mp_en_viaje: these were ~never the same ones.
asciilifeform: on orc side there was attempt to institutionalize, 'ok you can be brigand right-there, on turk border' i.e. cossac
mp_en_viaje: but cossack wasn't fucking farmer anyway
asciilifeform: not fulltime farmer, anyway. ( viking also 'part time farmer' similarly )
mp_en_viaje: which is my point -- there are two distinct and perfectly distinguishable populations. the plebs aren't the highwaymen.
mp_en_viaje: imo the distinction's very vividly made in a clockwork orange. give brigand nude princess, give farm cuck nude princess. one of the cases will result in pregnant princess.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: again this only in re ru planet, but there was measurable 'leakage' from 'pleb' to 'highwayman' , proportionate to how screamingly retarded was the crown at given time
mp_en_viaje: the other case will result in retching bootlicker
asciilifeform: iirc even in england was similar
mp_en_viaje: this was not leakage.
mp_en_viaje: there's similarly no leakage from earth into radon.
asciilifeform: from crown pov 'leakage'
mp_en_viaje: yes well.
asciilifeform: but i think i see what mp_en_viaje meant
mp_en_viaje: brigands ~stable percentile. much like niggers.
mp_en_viaje: http://trilema.com/2016/honor-societies-vs-respect-societies-or-how-the-disaster-of-commons-sunk-the-western-world/ hides it, because when it's cheaper to make a thing than to steal the thing nobody can be arsed. but a thing hidden's not a thing disappeared.
asciilifeform: for 'lively' son of peasant, as i understand 2 'radiodecay' paths, 1 to brigand, 1 to 'kulak' (of whom, seems , was also 'stable %' historically)
asciilifeform: ( iguess could even say 1 is 'special case' of other )
mp_en_viaje: none of these, notably, followed some kinda choice.
asciilifeform suspects that 'there is no magick' and all of these followed standard predator-prey equilibriae -- but not expert.
mp_en_viaje: the epitomic "kulak" is, eminently, http://trilema.com/2015/the-pawnbroker/ ; his monologue tells it all. eminently absent from there, any delusion of "choice"
mp_en_viaje: which is what makes in the end the difference : out of the cuck-mediated cuntspawn, some minotity sheds the "choice" delusion.
asciilifeform: 'thermodynamics proposes, kinetics disposes'(tm)(r), 'choice' aint the operative item
mp_en_viaje: yet the delusion of choice is what makes the pleb.
mp_en_viaje: and why permitting him to live his delusion is so deeply antisocial.
mp_en_viaje: every single fucking brigand wil ltell the same story, of how he ~had to~.
mp_en_viaje: and every single kulak doesn't tell the same story, of "what choice did i have".
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile the remainder 98% sits there herpy-derping about http://trilema.com/2014/agency-and-other-notes/
asciilifeform: 'kulak' story is moar usually 'hey the derps keep showing up to borrow money, what, i shouldn't , why exactly? they wanna buy me a 5th horse, why not let'em'
mp_en_viaje: precisely.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: seems to me that typical 'peasant delusion' is ~opposite~ , 'choice wat choice, i only know how to turnip'
mp_en_viaje: he ~HAD~ to. because how the fuck not, she's right there and she forgot her clothes.
mp_en_viaje: no, that's it. "turnipping doesn't work BUT I CHOOSE TO ANYWAY. BECAUSE IT MUST. BECAUSE I SAY SO. BECAUSE I AM GOD"
asciilifeform: 'am dog'
mp_en_viaje: same thing.
asciilifeform suspects that mp_en_viaje is right re 'fixed %' tho. but to run w/ the analogy, the radon does stay in the ground until you dig to the bedrock, so will in effect vary
mp_en_viaje: of course the asswipe then disavows it. THEN disavows it. and even pretends like the then is "instantly". but it ain't fucking isntantly, there's a space. first he lies, then he disavows.
asciilifeform: at whatever time some % of farmer 'know where out is' , but while the turnippin's good , sit put
mp_en_viaje: quite so.
mp_en_viaje: there's even a trilema piece re this i'm kinda too lazy to dig out
asciilifeform: ( then famine and suddenly you have a 800k man pugachev army 'outta nowhere!111' )
mp_en_viaje: i suspect you might be confusing the polarities.
asciilifeform: hm?
mp_en_viaje: in my read, the pretender "army" / peasant horde was a #metoo movement. they were the idiots.
asciilifeform: this model 100% afaik fits, e.g. muntzer . but less so in east orcistan imho.
mp_en_viaje: ~sabbatai zevi moment
asciilifeform: i recall this 1
asciilifeform: mega-piece
asciilifeform: imho the operative diff is where zev/muntzer/huss/etc revolt with 'and manna will fall from heaven' ; whereas pugachev et al were straight cases of 'burn old moribund aristocrats and install selves in place'
mp_en_viaje: but ~to do what~ ?
mp_en_viaje: see ? that's where it classifies in my head. "to do as before" "dude... they're not doing '''as before''' not cuz they don't wanna, the port is sanded"
mp_en_viaje: "no, IT MUST!!!"
asciilifeform: to same thing as chingis han 'to what', 'see their women driven before me, hear the lamentations...'
mp_en_viaje: i very much do not believe so.
mp_en_viaje: let's take a mental experiment for a moment.
asciilifeform prepares to take
mp_en_viaje: suppose tomorrow the power turns off. that's it, just, no more grid.
mp_en_viaje: now, suppose at this time word comes from on high that ... sorry... that's it. we don't know how to turn it back on.
mp_en_viaje: at this juncture, there will be various "self-defense" "armies" "organized" across the realm.
asciilifeform follows along, this is traditional picture...
mp_en_viaje: the largest will consist of pugachev's men : "our programme is to go find where the main switch is, and flip it."
mp_en_viaje: "dude... you think the world is like your basement ?" "yes" "it won't do anything." "NO IT MUST"
asciilifeform: mno, that'd be clitler's battallion, rather than pugachev
mp_en_viaje: admittedly i am not a master of medeival rus'
mp_en_viaje: but it is my read, stunted as it may be.
asciilifeform: lol beheaded in 1775
mp_en_viaje: well... eastern medieval era lasts until 1907ish. no ?
asciilifeform: but afaik d00d only cosmetically 'pretender', really -- a sort of 'mongol invader'
asciilifeform: why maintained the cosmetic front, still afaik debated by archaeologists.
mp_en_viaje: i dunno, to me he seems just a figurehead / sacrificial goat of a bunch ofretards looking for the main switch
asciilifeform: 'main switch' not , afaik, fully crystallized yet as concept, then.
mp_en_viaje: "how to make it like before" "fukctards, what you're feeling is the portuguese getting a trade empire going FIVE CENTURIES AGO"
mp_en_viaje: "wut" "motherfucker. the world your granpa lived in didn't in fact exist" "lies"
mp_en_viaje: "he fucking imagiend it on the basis of his granpa. thing was dead like 1505." "omfg wut"
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: this is a+++ model of 'america great again'(tm)(r) lulzcows aha
mp_en_viaje: of pugachev great again also.
asciilifeform: 'bring back the planes' 'wat planes, war ended, this is island 8000km from humanity' 'gather straw, we'll make planes!11'
asciilifeform less convinced, but unequipped to press the point while lacking working timemachine
mp_en_viaje: not like it in the end matters, unless/until pugachev shows up demanding a rating.
asciilifeform: lolyes
mp_en_viaje: then we can just interview be done with it.
asciilifeform: but imho still interesting, as neutrino was interesting before anyone knew how to catch 1
mp_en_viaje: point remains : the hallucination of choice is the specific distinguisher between the plebs and the brigand/kulak/whatever, non-pleb.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: 'imagined choice' can drive the imaginer into walls, but is unclear to me that the walls move, or even get dirty as result
mp_en_viaje: and it's a most informative and productive line of inquiry. there's a REASON the pleb projects choice upon those, and disavows his patently idiotic applcation of entirely imagined choice, and so on.
mp_en_viaje: all it does is it makes a pleb.
asciilifeform: 'i'ma quit my job an' work as a wolf instead, will grow teeth as i practice' 'write back, say how it goes'
mp_en_viaje: mno. that's not it.
mp_en_viaje: it's this : "what i do doesn't work" "do something else then" "no." "well what ?" "it must."
mp_en_viaje: "dude, it's not up to you." "yes it is." "wtf" "the dumb pleb always triumphs" "where the fuck did you see that ?" "on all anon graves"
asciilifeform: well general lemay also 'it must' eh
snsabot: Logged on 2016-07-11 11:31:03 asciilifeform: in ideal picture, 'nobody would dare', as curtis lemay answered when told to put out his cigar lest he set off the fuel depot
mp_en_viaje: very different thing.
asciilifeform: dunno that so diff. recall the sphex wasp ? the 1 that will still run the 'walk to caterpillar, see if eggs in its spine hatched' even if entomologist removes the caterpillar.
mp_en_viaje: what of it ?
asciilifeform: all living things do certain amt of 'but it must'
mp_en_viaje: pretty sure i actually had a spex on trilema, had a nest fulla spiders
asciilifeform: cuz otherwise no amt of cpu enuff
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 21:52:01 mircea_popescu: for this reason any imanentization (ie, mapping of concepts into reality) will revolve around a "paradigm" / wilful blindness of some kind. "how could i not think of that" is always lulzy -- if you thought of everything your head would explode. and that's a literalism : if you somehow fit all states of its own emptiness into a glass it'd go boom.
mp_en_viaje: anyway. yes all living things do a certain amount of "but it must". all livign things do a certain amiunt of excretion, also.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i recall the spiders. wasn't necessarily a sphex tho, there are other wasps that 'smarter' and will throw exception and stop looking for the caterpillar
mp_en_viaje: to be a shithead, however, must do enough.
asciilifeform: iirc sphex actually has a 'while(1) { ...' in him
mp_en_viaje: well, what i recall is that it pulls the cricket (nfi, maybe some others do larvae) by the antenna
mp_en_viaje: and if you cut those, it doesn't eg, drag by a leg.
asciilifeform: this kinda thing is ubiquitous in the insects aha
asciilifeform: 'segfault : antenna not found'
mp_en_viaje: they are pretty small.
asciilifeform: the ants, however, interesting because in anthill there ~will~ be found some who can walk 'nonstandard' path.
mp_en_viaje: was another thing, some other preditorial wasp, where it 1. drag to nest ; 2. inspect nest ; 3. deposit in nest.
mp_en_viaje: but if during 2 you move it, then it resets at 1
mp_en_viaje: can supposedly have it check the nest until it dies of starvation
asciilifeform: while(1)!
mp_en_viaje: anyway -- this was very fashionable i nthe 70s. but there's pretty serious problems with hoefstadter's critique of conceptualized consciousness
mp_en_viaje: so it kinda fell out of fashion
asciilifeform: it is interesting that wasp seems to lack 'rng'. asciilifeform does not know why, or what sorta evolutionary sense it makes.
mp_en_viaje: this could be like saying "it's weird individual transistors lack rng"
asciilifeform: given that the wasp is still around , evidently worx out.
mp_en_viaje: right ?
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: poor model, transistor, it's ~nuffin BUT rng when 'out of the box'
mp_en_viaje: taken seriously, the objection becomes suddenly very weak.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, precisely. the "lacks rng" could very well be entirely artefact of perception.
asciilifeform: right, asciilifeform's contention aint 'dafuq, this can't work' but 'well it clearly worx, i simply dun know precise mechanism'
asciilifeform: entirely possib
mp_en_viaje: how do you prove a number's not random anyway ?
mp_en_viaje: which is why the discussion is carried in terms of choice. rather than in terms of "compulsion" or whatever.
asciilifeform: wasp's natural env, incidentally, does not contain stealthy removers of caterpillars, afaik (they deposit'em in quite well concealed place)
asciilifeform: unlike zoologist's box
mp_en_viaje: im sure they have competitive predators, flies whatever
asciilifeform: aha, and also vertical predators (afaik moar of the latter)
asciilifeform: at any rate insect moar relies on 'horizontal' ('there's many wasps') 'rng', than 'vertical' ('if rnd()<0.99 then check_nest()' etc) rng.
asciilifeform: i.e. the 'r/k' thing.
asciilifeform: very easy for zoologist to laff at wasp, when he's a 'k' shaved ape
mp_en_viaje: aha
asciilifeform: wasp, when nests in his corpse, would laff right back, if he knew how.
mp_en_viaje: or cared to
asciilifeform on this merry note has to attend to meat : bbl
mp_en_viaje: laters
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-26#1938397 << here's the problem : these are all paper fortunes. paper fortunes are protected by naught besides the owner's willingness to endure hunger. argentina's future is so dim and its prospects so hopeless, there's ~0 incentive for argentine to liquidate rather than starve.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-26 19:02:08 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: As of 2013 through a bilateral treaty the shelter part of the arrangement went out. From where I'm sitting it is hard to tell which way the Argentine winds will push
mp_en_viaje: so i don't expect uruguay market will ever find price. instead, the "properties" will just decay into the ground
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-26#1938406 << in positive news, this is possibly the best thing for a human. each year with >500 miles on the odometer under age 50 adds 6 months of ~mobile~ life after age 70.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-26 19:17:45 BingoBoingo: Before investigating transit times it had probably been a good three months since I'd been inside a vehicle. Present tranportation costs consist of food calories above basal metabolic rate and a few cents a day in shoe/boot depreciation.
mp_en_viaje: it makes a huge difference this, between being the 70yo who walks to the bar and the 70yo who can't leave the house.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-27#1938413 << entirely up to you, if it becomes costly or w/e, limit it
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-27 04:37:33 spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-26#1938376 <-- hm. I suppose feedbot could do something along the lines of "talk (via PM) only to people who are already +v in the channels where bot is listening"; either way, there's currently no strict enforcement in place, I'll add something if/when it becomes necessary
BingoBoingo: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-27#1938480 << This is what I was expecting. I regret not taking better notes up till now on the history of advertised prices, but there appears to be a steady march downwards. I publish a selection of sample properties again in three or six months.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-27 17:52:50 mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, very nice work ; but this seems untenable on the face. i mean, even the san francisco "premium" bezzleworld's been losing 2-3-5% a year, each year, since 2015 or so. and 2s and 3s ealirer, 5s and above these days, 2019 may well close more like 7%
BingoBoingo: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-27#1938475 << The "conventional wisdom" passed around is that they haggle. I have not tested this myself.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-27 17:50:32 asciilifeform: they all seem to cost 1-1.5k $ / sq m., aha. tho BingoBoingo seems to have found that they haggle .
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, i do expect it's going slowly down, yes.
mp_en_viaje: in practical terms, that's the only available option ; real estate never drops suddenly, for deep and fundamental reasons sometimes superficiaslly touched in the logs. it's just not possible, like it's not possible to dream the unknown
mp_en_viaje: and yes, haggle. but this is no joke : to match eg romania, they'd have to haggle to 10%. looksy :
mp_en_viaje: https://www.olx.ro/oferta/promotie-noua-case-noi-duplex-in-dumbrava-tg-jiu-IDbNzpd.html#b6aa04dabc;promoted << newly built, 150sqm, 3 room, 70k euro (also negotiable, somewhat).
mp_en_viaje: https://www.olx.ro/oferta/casa-teren-targu-jiu-super-ocazie-IDbwAPF.html#b6aa04dabc << old construction, 225sqm, 750sqm yard, 95k euro
BingoBoingo: One nearby property I'd been watching since arrival finally sold after a flurry of listings once the price hit ~160,000USD. When I arrived it was listed around 200k. It had my attention for being a two bedroom house on an excellent corner with attached small commercial premises suitable for shingle hanging. Even after selling and becoming inhabited is still painted as a japanese restaurant.
mp_en_viaje: https://www.olx.ro/oferta/vanzare-vila-la-4-km-de-targu-jiu-IDcHTl6.html#b6aa04dabc << 272 sqm, 5 year old, 115k eur. and so following,
BingoBoingo: The problem of the Rio de la Plata is the people hold the opposite of the truth in the ways in which they are rich and poor.
mp_en_viaje: the salient points : a) half the prices ; b) three times the area ; c) one fifth or less the age. i expect ro 2000s construction, for all its warts, is still infinitely better than ~1970s uy construction technology
mp_en_viaje: now if yo ucombine a b and c you get a factor of about 10, by my lights.
mp_en_viaje: and romania has fttd ~everywhere, 2-8mbps for 2-3-5 eur/mo
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile Uruguay is stuck in Argenisanity's orbit until Argeninsanity starves
mp_en_viaje: seems entirely possible
mp_en_viaje: not like they'll magically learn how to build ust because the neighbour's goat died, either.
BingoBoingo: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-27#1938736 << Uruguay's laws are such that they do have to liquidate before starving.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-27 19:34:55 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-26#1938397 << here's the problem : these are all paper fortunes. paper fortunes are protected by naught besides the owner's willingness to endure hunger. argentina's future is so dim and its prospects so hopeless, there's ~0 incentive for argentine to liquidate rather than starve.
mp_en_viaje: i confess i am not at all impressed with the images on this particular score : they're all 1970s pure-sovoktech relics. it's directly visible, at least to the aculturated eye
mp_en_viaje: they're not all that great capital goods. obviously immensely better than usgistani paper wasp atrocities, yes.
mp_en_viaje: but the cost to own / cost to carry still a factor of 2 over what it coudl/should be with saner autoclaved cellular concrete filler and etcetera. whole poured concrete walls are for you know, river dams and things, wtf, heating that, preventing water seepage, it's a bundle.
BingoBoingo: In my immediate surrounding they are primarily valued as potential footprints for future residential towers so long as that activity continues.
mp_en_viaje: right. which... i can't imagine it will.
mp_en_viaje: i mean taking the list, right ? 1st item is literally a ruin ; that item has central wall damage from uncontrolled water infiltration. it would be condemned in europe.
mp_en_viaje: this isn't euroinsanity. the item is too far gone to be worth repairing, what.
mp_en_viaje: 2nd item i don't even know what to make of. seems someone literally poured some concrete, made a sort of post-wood outhouse. i dunno how it is even a house at all.
mp_en_viaje: 3rd item lacks entirely outside shots, which makes me suspect it's in a building that'd have been bombed in ww2, except it wasn't in active war theatre.
mp_en_viaje: #4 is exactly what i was saying above, 70s sovokism
mp_en_viaje: i bet you the doors use the copper keys we discussed at some point yeaes ago
mp_en_viaje: #6 is again #3, early 1900s, possibly good enough to stand, but possibly terribad, will have to drill a wall to see wtf is even in there
mp_en_viaje: how can 70sqm even contain 3 bedrooms ?! hermosa y luminosa my god, wtf, caragiale'd be happy.
mp_en_viaje: in short : not a single one of the items there look to me like something that'd be acceptable to carry on books even if given freely ; if yo uowned them i'd insist you sell them.
mp_en_viaje: this make any sense to you ?
BingoBoingo: It makes tremendous sense.
mp_en_viaje: i mean, even if someone gave you a free chevy vega -- it still wouldn't make economic sense to try and run it
mp_en_viaje: or whatever, an edsel, etc
mp_en_viaje: anyways, ima be back tomorro.
BingoBoingo: I have a strong suspicion if the investigation move to poking around the interior of listed structures the project could have turned into strictly evaluating for the lot footprints as the tower builders do