log☇︎
530 entries in 0.59s
BingoBoingo: Oh, systemd documented ruining people's days in the wild http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2014/q4/592
bounce: the gn00 guys also socialist. poettering not so much, though. why u no liek systemd?
mircea_popescu: lol so pankkake got butthurt because we don't like systemd, decided bitcoin "wouldn't have worked anyway" ? that's some pretty good fatlogic right there.
bounce: fighting with hald/dbus/udevd/*kit/systemd/whatever?
decimation: https://github.com/EtchedPixels/FUZIX << Alan Cox: "Fed up of SystemD ? Kdbus the final straw ? Linux community too large and noisy ? Yearn for the good old days when you knew every contributor by name and the source code fitted on a single floppy disc ?"
asciilifeform: he likes systemd i think
assbot: Say Something Nice About systemd - Slashdot
BingoBoingo: lulz http://slashdot.org/submission/3947303/say-something-nice-about-systemd
mircea_popescu: BUT at least back when they were making django they weren't making systemd
mircea_popescu: why even bother with a proper init, use systemd
assbot: 115 results for 'systemd' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=systemd
mircea_popescu: !s systemd
mircea_popescu: dude wtf is it systemv or systemd
TomServo: Did he ever give an explanation? Was it really SystemD bashing?
jurov: i'm sure they will include some ddos functionality into systemd bery soon
asciilifeform: systemd cancer is pretty advanced though
jurov: asciilifeform today's log says debian's supposedly voting to allow compatibility outside systemd
jurov: it's revenge for us bashing the systemd
jurov: so i came to the systemd stuff in the lawgs .. and
assbot: New systemd dependencies - Portage Help - Funtoo Linux
asciilifeform: http://forums.funtoo.org/index.php?/topic/13-new-systemd-dependencies << and yet more phun with systemd.
decimation: lol https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/4/2/415 << the systemd people tried to get Linus to accept a patch where the 'debug' kernel command argument would be silently removed from userspace, because it would trigger systemd spamming errors so badly that it wouldn't boot the system
assbot: Ts’o and Linus And The Impotent Rage Against systemd « IgnorantGuru's Blog
decimation: http://igurublog.wordpress.com/2014/04/03/tso-and-linus-and-the-impotent-rage-against-systemd/
decimation: apparently debian is going to 'discuss' the possibility of getting rid of systemd again https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2014/10/msg00001.html
mircea_popescu: o noes, systemd gets fucked ? awww.
BingoBoingo: ^Debian reconsidering systemd
BingoBoingo: http://www.funtoo.org/Funtoo_Linux_FAQ#Do_you_support_systemd.3F
asciilifeform: (anyone who uses gentoo, see recent logs for systemd exorcism notes)
assbot: Systemd Adding Its Own Console To Linux Systems - Slashdot
BingoBoingo: http://linux.slashdot.org/story/14/10/08/134208/systemd-adding-its-own-console-to-linux-systems
decimation: asciilifeform: I was going to make this point yesterday: you drive a stake in the heart of systemd because you prefer... bash?
asciilifeform: incidentally, that crap gets magicked away when you zap 'udev' (actually, the name - under modern gentoo - now refers to a satanic udev-systemd - and replace with 'eudev'.
asciilifeform: and - if you don't mask the turd, 'sanitary' gentoo (sans systemd) will indeed pull in udev-systemd by default.
assbot: Gentoo Without systemd - Gentoo Wiki
asciilifeform: http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Gentoo_Without_systemd << for a start
asciilifeform: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames << re: earlier crapolade
decimation: asciilifeform: thanks for that gentoo -systemd tip. it would be handy to make a systemd-free linux box
assbot: Gentoo Without systemd - Gentoo Wiki
asciilifeform: http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Gentoo_Without_systemd << unrelated but very useful
decimation: what I find interesting is that systemd has become standard in redhat enterprise 7
decimation: pulseaudio, systemd, avahi, all turds
asciilifeform: of all the sniveling shilling shits who took part in hearbleed insertion, propagation of 'systemd', the like.
decimation: although according to the boycottsystemd webpage, it sounds like systemd 'wants' to take over much of unix userland
BingoBoingo: decimation: systemd temps the desktop systems with login handling
decimation: asciilifeform: so I tried to install gentoo in a vm last night, was disappointed that it wanted me to install systemd. apparently one should install 'minimal' and then bootstrap software stack
BingoBoingo: decimation: Solution might be to be lazier to avoid the systemd update???
assbot: boycott systemd
BingoBoingo: <decimation> although they jumped on the systemd bandwagon << Alpine Linux still defaults to clean
asciilifeform: jumped on the systemd bandwagon << and you're using this on your own free will ?
decimation: although they jumped on the systemd bandwagon
punkman: re: systemd, there's a fork now http://uselessd.darknedgy.net/
assbot: boycott systemd
mircea_popescu: decimation: lol > http://boycottsystemd.org/ << it'd have been pretty meta if the systemd ppl themselkves had reg'd that domain and made a parody antisite
assbot: boycott systemd
BingoBoingo: One of the most disappointing name collisions has to been the suckage systemd vs. the awesome System D
BingoBoingo: And by devil I mean systemd
BingoBoingo: <chalbersma> Yep the company I work for still developes the latest stuff for HP-UX. Luckily we're moving off it for RHEL later this year. << Stahp or I'll have to cover you in my systemd fatwah
BingoBoingo: The sad thing about systemd is that even though red hat made it, ubuntu will fork it just because, and it will die. No serious intervention ought be necessary for this Hearnia
BingoBoingo: Who knows? Maybe now that the FBI has seen it it stops liking systemd?
BingoBoingo: <BingoBoingo> zdzichu: No until you stop insisting all the world make systemd a dependency. Stop making my niggers pick your cotton!!!
BingoBoingo: <zdzichu> BingoBoingo: so go and ignore systemd
BingoBoingo: <BingoBoingo> Systemd is the devil
BingoBoingo: Trolling #systemd is like slaughtering lemmings
BingoBoingo: So... systemd chan might not have someone capable of banning me
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Join systemd again.
BingoBoingo: systemd has 24 months to learn the silence that the spring lambs can't
mircea_popescu: Myth: systemd's use of D-Bus instead of sockets makes it intransparent. This claim is already contradictory in itself: D-Bus uses sockets as transport, too. Hence whenever D-Bus is used to send something around, a socket is used for that too. D-Bus is mostly a standardized serialization of messages to send over these sockets. If anything this makes it more transparent, since this serialization is well documented, under
BingoBoingo: If you pretend systemd lives on an arch that can count aleph sub one possibilities Imma take my dick out and correct in in the traditional chinese sense
mircea_popescu: For example, systems running systemd now generally store their hostname in /etc/hostname, something that used to be specific to Debian and now is used across distributions. << holy hell that took half a century.
BingoBoingo: <sztanpet> cool, now that its un-prefixed from systemd people are meant to use it anyway so might as well make it useful :D
mircea_popescu: o look, there's #systemd
mircea_popescu: this is kind-of bizarre. so, ok, syslogd gets whatever systemd feels like passing along. why is this useful and to whom
BingoBoingo: systemd gets a kilogram of brass. The niggers behind it can decide if the brass is shaped into hammers or bullets.
mircea_popescu: Myth: systemd makes it impossible to run syslog. >> Not true, we carefully made sure when we introduced the journal that all data is also passed on to any syslog daemon running. In fact, if something changed, then only that syslog gets more complete data now than it got before, since we now cover early boot stuff as well as STDOUT/STDERR of any system service.
BingoBoingo: Systemd is over
BingoBoingo: Systemd distros can go back to the jungle and fuck chimps.
mircea_popescu: 19. Myth: systemd forces you to do something. systemd is not the mafia. It's Free Software, you can do with it whatever you want, and that includes not using it. That's pretty much the opposite of "forcing". << lol ok, that's about the most disingenuous thing i read today. you know what else is free software ? BITCOIN!!!
BingoBoingo: per <Luke-Jr> even I think systemd is crap
BingoBoingo: The point is that to call systemd a lost cause I need not be important at all
BingoBoingo: Now if GNU Hurd was a useful thing in 1991... systemd might be a thing.
BingoBoingo: Look, the way Bitcoin regulation works is my TI-89 was my favorite computer loving ass said the systemd war is over and initd won. Give it time to stew, but that's the fina word.
pankkake: I have written inits for systemd, debian, and openrc. have you?
Azelphur: Everyone is talking about systemd, and I'm just sitting here using runit which nobody knows about.
Luke-Jr: even I think systemd is crap
mircea_popescu: and declarative by nature. That all said, if you are experienced in shell, then yes, adopting systemd will take a bit of learning."
mircea_popescu: "systemd certainly comes with a learning curve. Everything does. However, we like to believe that it is actually simpler to understand systemd than a Shell-based boot for most people. Surprised we say that? Well, as it turns out, Shell is not a pretty language to learn, it's syntax is arcane and complex. systemd unit files are substantially easier to understand, they do not expose a programming language, but are simple
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> "we designed systemd with security in mind" << by now this is pretty much usable as-is, might as well be a protein binding site for pathogens. << Why not a still moar precarious binging site for understood drugs?
mircea_popescu: Yes, systemd is fast (A pretty complete userspace boot-up in ~900ms, anyone?) << yeah ? since I dunno, 1995 ? i've always took the system apart if it needed more than a second.
mircea_popescu: "we designed systemd with security in mind" << by now this is pretty much usable as-is, might as well be a protein binding site for pathogens.
mircea_popescu: pankkake and in spite of the technical angle, what stinks to high heavens to me is the political angle. so gnome decides to not be dependent on systemd in 2012, then in 2013 they make it a de-facto dependency. because... heh. because why ?
mircea_popescu: if the computer is the shirt, and initd is a tie and systemd is a bowtie, me saying that it's not as easy to hang someone by his bowtie is not answered by your proposition that ties can get stained too. sure, they can, but we were discussing hanging not disembowelment.
BingoBoingo: pankkake: Because the Linux standard base lets me use a runlevel 4, systemd doesn't allow that
pankkake: just list a valid technical point of why systemd is bad and I'll listen. as I said, the criticism I see just show lack of knowledge of both systemd and existing init systems
mircea_popescu: pankkake you gonna tell me what the systemd butthurt was all about or just gonna rage silently and then come stab me 119 times in the middle of the night FOR NO FAULT OF MY OWN ?
mircea_popescu: ered-down encryption (to use stronger encryption in many areas, such as AES-loop, you needed to compile your own kernel and go to great lengths to manually bypass barriers they put in place to the use of genuinely strong encryption). This told me then that those who controlled distributions were deeply in the pockets of intelligence networks. So it comes as no surprise to me that they jumped on board systemd when told
mircea_popescu: o look, there's an entire systemd discussion in teh log.
assbot: The Systemd war is over | Bingo Blog
BingoBoingo: Agent Broachwala, you may find this weird, but I'll stand by http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/09/03/the-systemd-war-is-over/ longer than I'll stand by most of my baseball blog posts
BingoBoingo: Or like systemd radiation would have been still moar trendy