BingoBoingo: If anyone wants to take samples from a roach den http://archive.is/EmGTv
ben_vulpes: lol dafuq is an orderly exit "we will take these mining rigs and give you these yuan good luck fellas"?
mircea_popescu: !!key esthlos
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/EDB93AD2CAB28398010B46D025C71657FDA71DC2.asc
ben_vulpes: assuming anyone knows where the large hashpower actually lives, and it isn't under the protection of whomever granted access to the low-cost-juice already
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes kinda hard not to know ; sensitive to the same process of discovery as "hydroponic" pot farm
asciilifeform: lol except for the ones disguised as bauxite refineries
mircea_popescu: but there's a) permits required to bauxite refinery which includes inspections and b) trivially ennumerable set.
asciilifeform: !#s china is a bug
a111: 1 result for "china is a bug", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=china%20is%20a%20bug
asciilifeform: and yes.
mircea_popescu: kinda why the ancient http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-13#920246☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-11-13 21:27 mircea_popescu: assbot: Cloud&Heat is putting servers in homes and offices and the heat from them is free. << o look, one step closer to the bitcoin miner heating tile element.
ben_vulpes: easier at the powerplants too
mircea_popescu: but, human species consisting of ~morons, obviously that STILL wasn't done.
ben_vulpes: easy to hide miners at powerplants, i mean to say
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes "easy" and "miner" goes trogether about as well as "sexy" and "fat" pair.
mircea_popescu: ie, you need a certain unreal perspective.
asciilifeform: i'll observe that i can't yet buy a conventional-comp-that-is-waterheater either, even though it'd be quite handy ( i already have multi-kW water heater item )
mircea_popescu: you'd expecvt the "watercooling" folk went that way, but neh.
mircea_popescu: tho from an engineering pov this is quite trivial, if you look at how kitted the euro natgas heaters are...
asciilifeform: laughably trivial. units on the market : 0.
mircea_popescu: it'd be ~nothing to preheat the water in comp. but... why think and especially why obey when could instead go wahwahwah special cuntlet.
mircea_popescu: that's what's the bug, "baby you can do anything!!1".
mircea_popescu: habsburg empire was built by the knuth. the ~other~ one.
mircea_popescu: to date there's no other way.
asciilifeform: ahahaha
mircea_popescu: back then, you didn't have (in the sense, you didn't perceive a batshit insane, thoroughly delusional obligation) to explain shit to the plebs.
mircea_popescu: "it puts the cream on or it gets the knuth again" shall be the whole of the law.
asciilifeform: but also back then it was faberge egg (i.e. craftsmanship), rather than industry
asciilifeform: ( recall the 'mass production is a bug' thread )
mircea_popescu: i'd call it industry rather than mass production.
mircea_popescu: the item in "industrial revolution" has ~nothing to do with toyota.
asciilifeform: right, e.g. cannon were mass-produced long before industry (in the mass-marketism sense)
mircea_popescu: quite.
mircea_popescu: they're distinct threads in human civilisation (as opposed to human culture). textile was mass produced long before it was industrialized also.
mircea_popescu: similarily salted fish, grain, women, and a few other staples.
asciilifeform: and it isn't as if it is a total mystery what current-day machinery produced in the ludovic-13 cannon style look like. looks like lockheed et al
mircea_popescu: massmarketization visible from moon, by specific scar tissue around item
asciilifeform: upstack re chinese : not clear why anybody thinks this is not the 17th (or whatver, i lost count) iteration of ck-kpss's algo for snarfing up cheap coinz ('ban', buy, 'unban')
mircea_popescu: eh, ban my foot.
mircea_popescu: all this self-important nonsense. "ban" don't you know.
asciilifeform: they do it >1ce/yr nao
asciilifeform: worx on the weakhands presumably
mircea_popescu: i'm sure.
asciilifeform: hey, if you have a switch that reliably moves the exch rate even slightly down, and when released -- back up -- that there's an engine.
asciilifeform: can do work.
asciilifeform: a sort of hydro plant powered by idjits.
mircea_popescu: powered by your own arse.
mircea_popescu: costs them more to run it than it makes them, but, by all means, please, more of the wahwahwah special cuntlet behaviour, i don't mind.
mircea_popescu: people who were abused in their childhood under the guise of "education" (ie, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-06#1679600 ) fail to realise that... everything is an engine. including repeatedly stepping on a rake in the grass, or geting the plague.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-06 15:09 mircea_popescu: which is how every god damned kid that was sexually abused through the process of socialist schooling (which is all of them -- education is education, and socialist school is definitionally sexual abuse of all children involved) ends up with the idea that newton sat down TO discover whatever he did (unimportant, really) and THEREFORE he did.
asciilifeform: not clear to me what it costs chinese ck
asciilifeform: all they gotta do is step on fud gas, then unstep
mircea_popescu: well, the fanfics are in the business of credibility, generally.
mircea_popescu: what it costs them is being taken seriously.
mircea_popescu: (contrary to what literary personages like to pretend, there's no hardware hack for this, can parade all the missile trucks they want, it's still a literary phenomenon.)
asciilifeform: ( re ck: oblig https://songstext.ru/tekst-pesni-huj-zabej-tualet-perevod-slova-pesni/ << circa '89! even )
mircea_popescu: a lot has changed since the 80s
asciilifeform: from asciilifeform's admittedly distant perch, loox as if cn knew the seekret of 'eternal '80s'
asciilifeform: but i've nfi.
mircea_popescu: i suspect that secret consists of alf not having looked at anything other than.
mircea_popescu: which can't blame anyone for, it's ~junk anyway.
deedbot: http://thewhet.net/2018/01/the-trilema-article-database-a-toollet/ << The Whet - The Trilema Article Database, a toollet.
mircea_popescu: lmao read "toilet" first pas, was like wutwutWUT
hanbot: lol
asciilifeform also!
BingoBoingo: a toilset!
mircea_popescu: hanbot i just looked, it's actually only 8`119. somehow.
mircea_popescu: i confess it FEELS like 100k.
mircea_popescu: but... maybe in time.
hanbot: ohshit, even with all the wikileaks itams?
mircea_popescu: wikileaks not really that big.
hanbot: okay then. diminunizing claims!
mircea_popescu: hanbot looked into the dewey decimal system btw ?
mod6: evenin
mircea_popescu: how goes mod6
hanbot: mircea_popescu i did not.
mod6: mircea_popescu: hey, ok! way behind on things, but otherwise good.
mod6 catches up on l0gz
mircea_popescu: i'm vaguely curious how useful this'd be, "article X includes 003/101/209/309/402/801/908 !"
mircea_popescu: oh and 918.
mircea_popescu: (geography and travel in south america)
hanbot: mircea_popescu do you see a specific advantage it'd offer?
hanbot: yeah cross-referencing could get...noodly
mircea_popescu: well, to the sort of people who have it preloaded in their heads, it'd offer an advantage of convenience. also perhaps machine-classifiable.
mircea_popescu has toyed with the idea of replacing current "Categories" with some kind of dewey-ism.
mircea_popescu: tho it'd get gnarly.
hanbot: also not sure it's sufficiently detailed to handle the occult topics...what is the number for anal torture? but i'll have a looksy anyhow
mircea_popescu: (tbh, i think it's somewhat shameful the item doesn't come preloaded as a default in wordpress ; it SHOULD by rights, that's what fucking culture is about in the first place, offer the classes preloaded ffs.)
mircea_popescu: hanbot it can get pretty fucking 9 digit detailed. i just vaguely remember the general leads
mircea_popescu: and some narrower interest lengthier classes.
BingoBoingo: <hanbot> also not sure it's sufficiently detailed to handle the occult topics...what is the number for anal torture? but i'll have a looksy anyhow << It's there. The time consuming part is the cutter numbers after the .
hanbot: hmm. okay
mircea_popescu: oh, this is actually BingoBoingo 's field huh ?
asciilifeform: in other experimental noose, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1766135 >> -gnatp ( max danger moad ) is ~2x measured speedup.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-06 23:05 asciilifeform: btw i prolly oughta have mentioned, the timing figures (not only in ch6, but all posted to date) presume that ~all~ bounds-checks remain enabled.
BingoBoingo: Well, years ago
asciilifeform: ( see also https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-4.6.1/gnat_ugn_unw/Run_002dTime-Checks.html )
shinohai: Just read your post .... nifty work hanbot!
mod6: asciilifeform: you're gonna do the asm unroll with the bounds checks tho right/
asciilifeform: unroll?
asciilifeform: experiment was in re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1766136 .☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-06 23:05 asciilifeform: if one is satisfied with the nonoverflowability of the array refs , under all possible inputs , it is possible to yank'em. and get order-of-magnitude speedup.
asciilifeform: figure applies to errything. i.e. for any given nontrivial ada proggy, the cost of the checks is about 2x.
asciilifeform: ffa is one of the very few ( i dun expect to see another ) proggies where you can prove bounds. because the array indices do not EVER depend on the inputs.
asciilifeform: ( ffa specifically. in ffa_calc, very obviously they do , in the stack mechanism . however the inner loops, i.e. 99.9999...% of the time is spent, in ffa proper. )
asciilifeform: this being said, whether to build with -gnatp is personal choice of the operator. not mine.
mod6: i may be mis-remembering this, just thought there was a plan to take the disassembly and produce asm that you would then fabricate possibly?
mod6: or did i hallucinate that?
asciilifeform: mod6: separate project.
asciilifeform: mod6: in a from-the-ground asming, you dun need to do the ruinously expensive synthetic carryflag thing
asciilifeform: and yes you also get to unroll for particular bitness
mod6: ahh gotcha.
mod6: ok
asciilifeform: it is worth to keep in mind that ffa is , to steal from knuth, 'for readers to read first, and for machine to execute second'
asciilifeform: it is a simple guide to the making of sane arithmetron. that can be hand-compiled with reasonable effort to whatever arch.
asciilifeform: without an ada compiler at all.
asciilifeform: mod6: the discussion of disassembly was a separate one, concerning audit of 'wtf actually comes out of this-here gnat'
mircea_popescu: in fact all code is first and foremost literary work. that (some of it) machines can run is about as interesting as which kinds of smoothies flies favour.
asciilifeform: aha. given correct human-readables, you can always make a mechanism. but very muchly not vice-versa
mircea_popescu: quite.
mod6: werd.
mircea_popescu: also re "epicycles", should prolly link http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-22#1487207 (or the other one, iirc we had a better discussion somewhewre as to how actual clocks were "hacked" over time to catch up with the moving solar function, resulting in these cvasi-organic piles of patches upon patches making the original mechanism barely comprehensible). imo the better example ; anyone who's seen a medieval clock can't help but b☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-06-22 17:12 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-22#1486970 << you know, the proposition that drugs enhance the mind is not so unlikely from the proposition that hanging polished stones of various colors, dead parrots and other detritus from the weights of a grandfather clock improve its timekeeping accuracy.
mircea_popescu: e impressed by the insanity made manifest.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-09#1767465 << this also serves as a better statement of naggum's "free software failed" argument. it is ~worthless to obtain access to insanity mechanized.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-09 01:45 asciilifeform: aha. given correct human-readables, you can always make a mechanism. but very muchly not vice-versa
mircea_popescu: the point is to force the sort of people who are actually insane out of the production process entirely ; and to keep them out permanently.
mircea_popescu: consider : if microsoft word worked correctly, I WOULDN'T EVEN NEED TO READ ITS CODE. not because "oh, practically no need" but because I WOULD ALREADY KNOW WHAT IT SAID. because there's no other way to say it.
mircea_popescu: it is, after all, a deterministic machine.
mircea_popescu: in short, i don't want to read what sort of code apple wrote ; i want apple to never write any code again as long as any of them live.
mircea_popescu: !#s "not glad he's dead but glad he's gone"
a111: 0 results for "\"not glad he's dead but glad he's gone\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22not%20glad%20he%27s%20dead%20but%20glad%20he%27s%20gone%22
mircea_popescu: o rly ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-09#1767477 >> https://stallman.org/archives/2011-jul-oct.html#06_October_2011_%28Steve_Jobs%29☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-09 01:59 mircea_popescu: !#s "not glad he's dead but glad he's gone"
mircea_popescu: aha
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-09#1767408 << neato hanbot☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-09 00:52 deedbot: http://thewhet.net/2018/01/the-trilema-article-database-a-toollet/ << The Whet - The Trilema Article Database, a toollet.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/lucy/ << Trilema - Lucy
danielpbarron: oh hey
danielpbarron: !!up l0de
deedbot: l0de voiced for 30 minutes.
l0de: word up
l0de: those guys are cool on that discord
l0de: it's just not a free speech zone
danielpbarron: i'm in the freestyle voice now, pretty dope
l0de: yeah there are some good rappers in there
l0de: I'd just save religious stuff for another server
danielpbarron: u started it
l0de: they will eventually ban you if you go too far
l0de: did I?
l0de: I can't help it, I'm a troll
mircea_popescu: anything good ?
danielpbarron: yeah i started with some lil wayne and now they are making stuff up on the spot i guess
danielpbarron: !!pay Birdman 0.0224535
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/gKHrb/?raw=true
Birdman: !!pay lobbes 0.00224535
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Q9IKc/?raw=true
danielpbarron: you gotta wait a sec lol
danielpbarron: also should probably get him to invoice you
Birdman: he did
danielpbarron: and i should had you invoice me for that matter
danielpbarron: !!help
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/help.html
danielpbarron: read that
Birdman: !!balance
deedbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/r778i/?raw=true
Birdman: !!withdraw .0185 15FzB9hYQMPjFPpSfy9EXqkW7uKKf4LV8X
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WeVhw/?raw=true
shinohai: !~tadb
jhvh1: http://thewhet.net/tadb/search.php
shinohai: ^ for those that wish to handily refer to link quickly here in forum
mats: http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/17486/houthi-rebels-release-flir-video-showing-shoot-down-of-saudi-f-15s
shinohai: "There is a distinct possibility that the United States might have supplied the FLIR Systems turret the Yemenis claimed to have employed during this shoot down." <<<< lulzy mats
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 14666.54, vol: 13886.97312107 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 14660.0, vol: 53272.5690337 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 14817.0, vol: 3140.93582623 | Volume-weighted last average: 14668.3064546
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Tomorrow at the meeting do you want me to inquire if the datacenter has space at their hall on the other side of town for tiny thing colo, or is that too close when measured in internet cables?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: fullsized boxen first
BingoBoingo: Si
trinque: !~later tell Birdman put a 0 in front of that .0185
jhvh1: trinque: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: lol https://www.elpais.com.uy/mundo/le-molesta-uruguayos-argentinos-punta.html
shinohai: I'd tell them to piss off back to their own country, they can try to reclaim the Faklands if they want a vacation spot.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/ << reviewed this yet again, mostly to include / fix ben_vulpes links and some changes to structure (merged irc bot, v impl and following the guides (which was in red before?!) all into section V, orange.)
mircea_popescu: comments welcome!
mircea_popescu: shinohai hanbot maybe posting the form via get would allow me to search directly ? or how'd i use this a la !#s ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-09#1767519 <<< o look, when the saudis "bought" that piece of shit it ... wasn't "corruption" and the saudi state very much does not need to take measure to eliminate the "corruption" of giving usg money. it's only when non-usg gets dough that the idiot neets need to stand up and herpderp on social media about "corruption" amirite ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-09 13:36 mats: http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/17486/houthi-rebels-release-flir-video-showing-shoot-down-of-saudi-f-15s
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's a good thing the usg "coallition" totally won the isis war.
shinohai: I am pondering that mircea_popescu ... as hanbot said it would be tedious to dump a bunch of links directly to chan, so I was thinking maybe to a paste.
mircea_popescu: mebbeh
mircea_popescu: but how do i get my query out to it ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-09#1767528 << lmao argentina coincidentally waking up to "hey, everyone thinks you're shitheads" after half a century of happy solipsism.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-09 16:19 BingoBoingo: lol https://www.elpais.com.uy/mundo/le-molesta-uruguayos-argentinos-punta.html
mircea_popescu: PIZDI NO PILI, BITCHES! and next time say what and where you read that gave you teh existential angst.
mircea_popescu: aand in other lulz from the meatmarkets, "lady_canesworth".
mats: its interesting that isis has found sympathizers in south east asia, which has a syncretic islam
mircea_popescu: mats i don't expect isis is more islamic than "fuck the us".
mircea_popescu: but what do i know, i dun have fifty +1/+1 green beret cultural experts on the ground to write me briefs.
hanbot: <mircea_popescu> comments welcome! << you could put grabbing a chunk of trilema to index in there, possibly --though the activity doesn't force presence/participation here in chan
mircea_popescu: hanbot like... red ?
hanbot: anyway i used post over get because of the (3k?) char limit on get --if someone has a lot of terms to put through, the url could get ginormous
mircea_popescu: but would they practically ?
hanbot: mircea_popescu prolly yellow morelike
mircea_popescu: the average log search is what, 10 chars or such.
mircea_popescu: hanbot on meditation, i think it belongs into discreet. i think the idea is very sensitive to idiots "helping", you really don't want rando "contributing"
hanbot: i was thinking it'd have to be checked, but sure, could open a door best kept closed, i get it
mircea_popescu: can always waylay the possibly-useful later on, not like we don't know whose mind works.
hanbot: true
hanbot: anyway i'm happy to change to get so stuff can be played with.
mircea_popescu: part of the problem is that the syntax is complex, if I want to search for something i have to remember what's what.
mircea_popescu: re bot integration i mean
mircea_popescu: this actually may be the like... ONE known case to date where i'd rather go to the site and click buttons than type in !~tadb comments=1&blabla
hanbot: aha. well a lot of the options on the page atm are just an attempt to offer...more options to folks, lol. typically when i have the missing article problem with trilema it's along the lines of "what was that piece about korea, there was some history in it and a picture, and it was after 2015". not exactly an exhaustive list of checked parameters
BingoBoingo: And this is how cutter numbers get long...
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the problem with books in a library isn't even that terrifying, seeing how they usually pick a topic. trilema article picks like a dozen, ikt's all about the interlinks.
mircea_popescu: (incidentally, the argument may be brought that dewey was a terrible cost upon human culture and ~the reason us never amounted to anything : the tendency to pick a topic is not unlike the tendency to pick a gender. "i can't think now, since i'm a girl" sorta bs.)
BingoBoingo: Right, but the insanity gets worse with the Library of congress system
mircea_popescu: it does.
BingoBoingo: And then there's OCLC which ends any attempt at sense and soley exists to keep catgenders employed
mircea_popescu: in any event hanbot 's attempt actually suggests an approach to quantifying the "That the republic readily exceeds the literate production of the combine of "modern democracies" should be unsurprising ; that they sorry shelters of the stunted ever manage to reach its quality is altogether dubious." claim.
mircea_popescu: just write out the exhaustive topiclist per item and then count links.
mircea_popescu: ie what is informally referred to as http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-07#1766620☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-07 21:01 mircea_popescu: leaving aside the remarkable poverty of reference, i'd like at least for the few popitems he uses to be at the fucking least correct!
mircea_popescu: of course, merely quantitative approaches do not work, lest you end up with a http://trilema.com/2017/the-ethics-of-liberty-by-murray-n-rothbard-adnotated-part-vi-a-crusoe-social-philosophy/#selection-299.0-299.217 style hacker in those entreprising new worlds bereft of any serious thought.
BingoBoingo: !!up aegis
deedbot: aegis voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: !!up knoobie
deedbot: knoobie voiced for 30 minutes.
knoobie: ty :P
mircea_popescu: yw.
mircea_popescu: and who might you be ?
knoobie: a random! lol
mircea_popescu: aite.
knoobie: heard of a funny story taking event yesterday in here, so definitely decided to join... hahahah
mircea_popescu: what was that ?
knoobie: IRCops, trannies and funny shit.. lmao
mircea_popescu: uh. mkay.
knoobie: =]
knoobie slaps aegis
mircea_popescu: !!gettrust deedbot ave1
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 3 by 3 connections.
mircea_popescu: hows teh ada musling coming along ?
knoobie: mircea_popescu: where you from bud?
mircea_popescu: originally, romania.
Birdman: !~later tell trinque why put another 0 in front of .0185?
jhvh1: Birdman: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: cuz that's how it parses numbers lol.
Birdman: oh, duh
knoobie: reside in US?
mircea_popescu: knoobie http://trilema.com/galati-yachting << guess the location.
shinohai: ^ one of my favorite trilemas for some reason
mircea_popescu: maybe you just like the blue!
mircea_popescu: !!up knoobie
deedbot: knoobie voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: you got a rsa key knoobie ?
shinohai: mircea_popescu's bird pics are the best ones though.
mircea_popescu: it's fucking easy here, i think place invented birds.
knoobie: !!help
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/help.html
knoobie: i should register.. hey :P
mircea_popescu 's favourite of the later travelpics is http://trilema.com/2017/il-coccodrillo-amico-delluomo/
mircea_popescu: perhaps unsurprisingly, i always liked crocodiles.
shinohai: Their skin makes beautiful leather.
mircea_popescu: ever heard one bray ? lol.
shinohai: Yup, they sound like a deep huehuehue to me
mircea_popescu: ya lol
mircea_popescu: it's somewhat a pity internet culture settled on "troll" as the mythological beast. crocodile perhaps much better on cool examination.
shinohai: Now you make me think of it, the crocodiles were just as entertaining to watch as the birds when I was in Florida. My trip was strictly for birds!
mircea_popescu: those are more like aligators neh ?
mircea_popescu has nfi, originally trhought new world "crocodile" poor copy, real crocodile in africa. then it turned out costa rica has actual bona fide crocodylus
shinohai: Nah A"American" crocodiles seem to be extremely North of range in Florida, but those weird swamp people love fucking with them.
mircea_popescu: i certainly had some aligator steak to certify the fuck with claim.
shinohai: Was it good?
mircea_popescu: yes, actually.
shinohai: I did not try, only reptile I have ever consumed was the iguana in Guatemala.
mircea_popescu: if mod6 came by all nonchalant like and was "hey, i shot a 350 lb shrimp today" what i;d expect the steak to taste like would be ~alligator.
shinohai: mod6 would be proud of me, I managed a pair of quail the other weekend when it snowed.
mircea_popescu: o wow, i had no idea you hunted.
mircea_popescu: what did you shoot ?
shinohai: I have a Winchester Model 12
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> it's fucking easy here, i think place invented birds. << There's good variety here but the only photogenic motherfuckers are the pigeons
mircea_popescu: no i mean for ammo
shinohai: I don't go much anymore
shinohai: 00 bird cartridges
mircea_popescu: is that 2.25mm shot ?
mircea_popescu: like 450/oz or so ?
mircea_popescu: !!up knoobie
deedbot: knoobie voiced for 30 minutes.
shinohai: ^ yup 2.25 ...
mircea_popescu: aha. yeah.
shinohai: http://archive.is/LLtUi <<< When will Parity just fade into nothingness like slock.it ?
mircea_popescu: wait, slock.it is no longer the bees' knees ?!
mircea_popescu: next you're going to tell me doge isn't the new ether anymore or something!
knoobie: bah, god i hate bots!!!
shinohai: Doge managed to get itself back up to 100 satoshi .... still less than the 5cents xD
mircea_popescu: knoobie what did bots did to you ?
knoobie: mircea_popescu: we just never seem to see eye to eye on things.. lmao
knoobie: IT not my field.. lol :P
mircea_popescu: what is your field ?
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> next you're going to tell me doge isn't the new ether anymore or something! << Hey, touched 2 billion market cap this week!
deedbot: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/01/09/reading-russells-wasp-in-montevideo/ << Bingo Blog - Reading Russell's Wasp In Montevideo
knoobie: heh, used to be a stockbroker/day trader but retired at young age, now finishing it off with BTC :P
shinohai: yay inflation!
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo meanwhile precious cuntlet coin reached TEN FARTZILLION, so there!
mircea_popescu: knoobie pretty cool. so what's the bot trouble ?
knoobie: also run my own VC, just relocating to Monaco/Dubai
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Indeed
BingoBoingo: knoobie: What languages do you speak?
shinohai: Besides emoji.
knoobie: thing wont register, keep spitting out error unable to import..
BingoBoingo: knoobie: You don't import it, you decrypt it
trinque: paste the actual whole line you're sending to deedbot here.
knoobie: BingoBoingo: English, Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian, and some Turkish
mircea_popescu: so if i follow the history correctly here, some tranny made a mistake that accidentally exposed some lie they've been telling themselves for a long time, which they couldn't cope with, so they went on the usual pantsuit bender of "trying to find the correct authority figure to whine/lie to", which resulted in some random retired stockbroker relocating to dubai in joining #trilema.
mircea_popescu: this is like http://trilema.com/2015/on-how-i-ended-up-suing-phoenix-nap-llc-on-how-ira-r-cadwells-mom-stephanies-going-to-lose-her-chula-vista-home-on-how-marcus-bohn-is-going-to-catch-a-lot-of-shit-for-that-on-assorted-othe/#selection-199.0-217.246 all over again!
BingoBoingo: knoobie: No Spanish? I was going to suggest Montevideo
knoobie: BingoBoingo: Haha, unfortunately not.
mircea_popescu: knoobie show what you're trying to do here.
shinohai: nihil novi sub sole
mircea_popescu: !#s "!!register" << examples
a111: 0 results for "\"!!register\" << examples", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22!!register%22%20%3C%3C%20examples
mircea_popescu: uh,
mircea_popescu: oh lmao
mircea_popescu: !#s "!!register"
a111: 121 results for "\"!!register\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22!!register%22
mircea_popescu: ^^ examples.
knoobie: ty =)
mircea_popescu: hm where's phf go ?!
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-15#1603632 << check out this lulzy sheit.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-15 23:05 a111: Logged on 2017-01-15 21:47 indiancandy: !!register <だ댧卾ᅟ룱ࢤ�ᫎ䂳䯫证慢ቊ콥贐较本덁㡚࠘譂ꘪ蜈出ᜄ粘锝⛥箥戴ᷜꔐ俟组․ഒ㻒㌕낌ᥥ款ړ忲䧚뾨շ脵됾쓰娊嫥៏䙿槥晥获᷑룜巵歛踈>
shinohai: bwahahaha
mircea_popescu: unicode is the solution!
mircea_popescu: we're still searching for the problem.
trinque: the things they stuff into poar deedbot's holes
shinohai: btw how did suit shopping go yesterday mircea_popescu ?
shinohai: lmao trinque
mircea_popescu: shinohai got a coupla more.
shinohai: I still want a nice grey one, but no real tailors in area ... subpar Men's warehouse shit where all the threads fall out of seams.
shinohai not falling for that again.
mircea_popescu: myeah.
knoobie: finally, got it registered..
mircea_popescu: !!key knoobie
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/EC8D67DD86B253307B7E670718154530BCDB888A.asc
mircea_popescu: !!rate knoobie 1 new blood
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/xEwXI/?raw=true
knoobie: !!ratings knoobie
deedbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ebDIT/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: knoobie give an hour or w/e to get through
knoobie: ahh cool, so did i do it correctly? lol
mircea_popescu: yes.
knoobie: not a fan of bots at all
mircea_popescu: why not ? they save a lot of slavegirl busywork.
shinohai: Also useful for separating wheat from chaff.
knoobie: they do but never really had the need for using them...
mircea_popescu: i can't imagine how the republic would work without.
mircea_popescu: this also is possibly the chan with the largest concentration / most bot work in the history of irc.
knoobie: lol, Ive noticed already
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all --currency rmb
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 14780.02, vol: 13335.94539176 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 14763.0, vol: 46285.87161608 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 14875.0, vol: 2958.93678867 | Volume-weighted last average: 14771.9225309
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
mircea_popescu: shinohai wouldn't it make more sense to say "please contact shinohai "?
shinohai: But then I'd have to do some work!
shinohai: lol
mircea_popescu: lol k
mircea_popescu: knoobie try your !!up skills.
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-09#1767686 << I got lucky one time 8 yrs ago; in serious.bsns.school I went  to local Salvation Army, bought grey suit that still fits me perfectly today for.. $10! "Made in Poland" even☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-09 18:59 shinohai: I still want a nice grey one, but no real tailors in area ... subpar Men's warehouse shit where all the threads fall out of seams.
lobbes: Probably could still use some tailoring, but I feel ya with the "Not even sure where to find real taylor in US" sentiment
lobbes once worked with a d00d from Jordan who always complained about the shitty state of tailors in the US
shinohai wonders if he could make a fortune by becoming a pantsuit tailor .....
lobbes: "Genuine Pantsuit Skin! Custom fitted!"
mircea_popescu: lobbes the lucky part in all this is that you still fit what you fit a decade ago.
mircea_popescu has grown into his adult shape, no longer fits youtful suits ;/
BingoBoingo: Or the girlies aren't taking you on enough walks
mircea_popescu: !!up knoobie
deedbot: knoobie voiced for 30 minutes.
knoobie: cheers
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ysbut.
mircea_popescu: knoobie so what's the problem ?
knoobie: now i got the hang of it, but fucked up on the previous key, can i re-register a new one?
mircea_popescu: uh. do you stillo have the old one ?
shinohai: TOP KEK
BingoBoingo: Fucked up how?
knoobie: passphrase
knoobie: must have had typo, when i specified it..
mircea_popescu: tsk.
mircea_popescu: well, you'll have to make a new name.
knoobie: (:
mircea_popescu: and DO NOT LOSE YOUR KEYS.
knoobie: cannot be updated?
mircea_popescu: not without the old one.
mircea_popescu: also see the cannonical piece on this subject, http://thewhet.net/2012/11/shall-be-delivered/
knoobie: heh, ill guess it, add some dyslexic typo & hopefully works out..
mircea_popescu: try that.
BingoBoingo: Well, then gotta relearn once discovered
BingoBoingo: But also read the linked material
knoobie: yeah, reading it now
BingoBoingo: In other fakes: "The fake passage purports to describe a scene from the early days of the Trump presidency in which the new executive expressed frustration that his television didn’t display “the gorilla channel.” When his aides “compiled a number of gorilla documentaries into a makeshift gorilla channel,” the president remained frustrated, insisting that the animals should fight one another. "
mircea_popescu: lmao
mircea_popescu: is this more from the "i did not vote for this" NEET channel ?
BingoBoingo: Yes
mircea_popescu: well, i hope at least they were bonobo or silverback or whichever alt-african-american the pantsuit wanks over.
shinohai: If he wanted the Gorilla channel, could have just watched the security tapes from the previous administration .....
mircea_popescu: bwahaha
mircea_popescu: and i ~tried~ to get the top billed zinger ;/ but...
shinohai: >.>
BingoBoingo: Perhaps the story is truefax and the aides suck?
mircea_popescu: maybe he was just looking for toupee tips.
mircea_popescu: !~tr ro to en "coafura rezista"
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Error: "tr" is not a valid command.
mircea_popescu: !~translate ro to en "coafura rezista"
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: the hairstyle resists
mircea_popescu: shinohai wouldja make it tr instead of "translate" ? i have ancestral memories from vragnaroda's bot
shinohai: !~tr en to ro Should work now
jhvh1: shinohai: Ar trebui să lucreze acum
mircea_popescu: dar mersi.
shinohai: That does make a bit more sense, good idea
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-08#1767028 << m-r also works deterministically if one's inclined. nitpick i guess.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-08 16:24 asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/mN2NJ/?raw=true << whole thing in 1 .txt , for convenience. includes author's sci.crypt-style philosophizing, which is the linkworthy lul to begin with
mircea_popescu: but anyway, author sounds like he belongs here.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: plugging prng in the place of the rng != deterministic algo in the civilized sense
asciilifeform: ( it's a schneierism )
asciilifeform: but indeed author 'oughta be here'
mircea_popescu: not what's contemplated ?
mircea_popescu: m-r is deterministic if you exhaustively search a space of witnesses.
asciilifeform: sun burns out first.
mircea_popescu: the formula is in the log too, iirc, some logs.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not practical, but the guy said "can't"!!1
asciilifeform: about as practical as iteration from 1 to sqrt(n).
knoobie: must have been some serious typo on this pass phrase.. :/ & that was a good read from above
mircea_popescu: knoobie make a new name/key and take better care of your life!
knoobie: mircea_popescu: that was the first time i have chosen to register with a bot.. :/
mircea_popescu: my key, idem.
knoobie: ehh, will create new nickname, only reason being is this channel seems, one of the more active :P
mircea_popescu: it is.
mircea_popescu: "# encrypttoct(): Encrypts a sequence of blocks of constant size of mb bits, on the one side applying the for RSA known method of transformation on the individual blocks, on the other side using certain commonly in symmetric block encryption employed methods, namely plaintext-and-ciphertext- block-chaining (with a pseudo-random IV). A sequence of blocks that stems from the plaintext of the user can thus be encrypted with RSA
mircea_popescu: . (Note that this is a direct encryption of plaintext material with the help of RSA and not an encryption of a key for e.g. AES with RSA and afterwards an encryption of the plaintext with AES). Based on this function are the functions rsaencryptplaintexttoct() and rsaencryptbytearraytoct(), which process a user-given plaintext string and byte sequence respectively." << this distinction seems rathger without a difference.
mircea_popescu: but it is worth noting he actually rests FORTY m-r witnesses.
mircea_popescu: !~calc 4 ^ 40
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 4 ^ 40 = 1.2089258196146292E24
asciilifeform found the item by digging in re 'what is state of the art in guaranteed-prime-generators', in particular 'does anybody have anything resembling an approach to a provably uniform one'
mircea_popescu: !#s "mok" "shen"
a111: 9 results for "\"mok\" \"shen\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22mok%22%20%22shen%22
asciilifeform: wassat
mircea_popescu: shinohai mind joining that bs forum and inviting the guy over, either pm http://s13.zetaboards.com/Crypto/profile/3046920/ or else leave a comment on http://s13.zetaboards.com/Crypto/post/?mode=2&type=2&f=3138&t=7234475&p=8091099&qhash=bb4bd596a5be2ea3eed10a35d11d36cb ?
mircea_popescu: zetaboards for the love of fuck. what is wrong with people.
mircea_popescu: "# Code lines of documents with the same version number are always identical. There may be interim modifications of comment lines. The most recent document of PROVABLEPRIME can be obtained from: http://s13.zetaboards.com/Crypto/topic/7234475/1/" << the barbarity.
mircea_popescu: o hey there.
mircea_popescu: "# We use c=0.005 which has been experimentally found to be optimal in processing time for common PC under MS Windows and values of k of practical interest. A different c value may be desirable for use in different computing environments." << check it out asciilifeform ! IT IS SATOSHI ALL OVER AGAIN. why. WHY!!!
shinohai: will do mircea_popescu ... gimmie a bit
mircea_popescu: fucking gates should be hanged by his guts ; this pestilence is his legacy upon the third world. no amount of "curing afflictions that beset the subhuman horde" can possibly compensate for having clipped the top.
mircea_popescu: shinohai no rush.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's even worse in the ru world
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-09#1767676 << i've been out of commisssion since friday, and will be for another couple of days. got brought down hard with a flu, that hasn't happened to me in a while☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-09 18:56 mircea_popescu: hm where's phf go ?!
asciilifeform: where e.g. folx with 40 yrs of mathematics, honest research, etc in'em... perma-stuck in winblowz
mircea_popescu: it's worse everywhere ; the koreans with their windows banking, /me personally observed mural dedicated to ghandi, jobs and other "great demigod-geniuses of mankind"
mircea_popescu: fucking loathsome.
asciilifeform: the koreans sum to ~0, whocares
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform korea is an ancienter civ than russian! and this is kievan not muscovy!
asciilifeform: so ancient that nothing remains lol
asciilifeform: like the wireless ukrs
mircea_popescu: and look why.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "common pc", you know ? like "common people". pshaw.
mircea_popescu: "the average gender of the human race is computer"
mircea_popescu: phf enjoy!
mircea_popescu: (and always remember kids -- what doesn't make you stronger, kills you.)
asciilifeform: wtf is in a 'common pc'
mircea_popescu: common truths
mircea_popescu: that are self-evident.
asciilifeform: aaapparently
phf: well, now that the fever dropped from halucinatory 39 to a pleasant 37.5, i get to experience an mp lifestyle: i just lay in bed and all my whims are catered to :)
mircea_popescu: dude, this is painful to read. so he correctly explains the problem with trusting the massive "pki" imperial faux-crypto, "too large to practically read, proven insecure, etc". then ? "# Both communication partners have to download the same version 3x of Python from http://www.python.org."
mircea_popescu: motherfuckers! how about we just blame the liberals and go to sleep instead!
mircea_popescu: phf pie ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see also http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763687☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-04 14:53 asciilifeform: 'hardware isn't easy to build therefore couldn't possibly be necessary, the gods would not have made this level so hard, for me, the hero' or similar.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's painful, jesus, guy has the right idea gets fucked anyway.
asciilifeform: i collect these.
mircea_popescu: crocodile.
asciilifeform: hey i dun kill them butterflies, they die by themselves
mircea_popescu: true enough.
shinohai: Apply more beatings phf, then she will cater through sickness AND health.
asciilifeform: in other oldies, seiko's 'DPU414' thermal printer, can be had for <fiddybux, and not only prints 80cols x infinity (continuous tape) but knows how to eat rs232 and... print hexdump (up to 19200 baud)
asciilifeform: theoretically this beast will print straight from a (downclocked, change 1ln in fg.v) FUCKGOATS ~sans computer~
asciilifeform: for otp-makin'
shinohai: http://archive.is/SUV5O <<< I know it is Kruds on Security, but nonetheless lulzy "Snyder discovered that Overstock’s site just as happily accepted bitcoin cash as payment,....." to any old regular Bitcoin address
mircea_popescu: !!key knubie
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/B2B6A92EB5C140CDE1FEBB31A69A09AA24142942.asc
shinohai: Thanks Coinbase!
mircea_popescu: !!rate knubie 1 new blood
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/EtJw7/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nice find!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they're sold by the pallet-full at surpluseries, too.
mircea_popescu: aha
asciilifeform: eats 110mm tape.
mircea_popescu has some prodigal rolls of 110 mm thermotape...
mircea_popescu: you can buy them in multi-lm lengths np
asciilifeform: cute little thing. even has battery compartment ( for if mains give out , to finish birthing the buffer... )
asciilifeform: aha they're sold in 60metre roll
mircea_popescu: !!up knubie
deedbot: knubie voiced for 30 minutes.
knubie: cheers :P
knubie: deedbot, is a bit delayed... =)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ftr this is ~the best otp possible.
asciilifeform: aha!
asciilifeform: make split-cable to feed 2 seikos
mircea_popescu: dualprint, reroll, gtg.
asciilifeform: simultaneous print aha
mircea_popescu: can fucking use it in "rot13" like scheme! alphabetic xor ftw.
asciilifeform: classical su-style otp.
mircea_popescu: yes.
asciilifeform: hence the mention of the item.
mircea_popescu: "if pad has letter D, and you're encrypting, B becomes F. if decrypting, F becomes B. UNBREAKABLE."
mircea_popescu: "just burn the roll as you use it"
asciilifeform: ( orig 414 was made for use in industrial, medical gear. )
mircea_popescu: anyway. secure comms were never this cheap.
asciilifeform: thermal tape dun burn quite as well as ordinary paper ( heat treated ) but it burns ok in a propane or butane flame, or with other accelerant
knubie: =)
asciilifeform used thermal tape for meatspace otps for some yrs
mircea_popescu: !~later tell aegis wouldja stop with the join/part spam
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: btw here's a lul : http://btcbase.org/log/2014-07-02#741001☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-07-02 21:13 aegis: nice
asciilifeform: !#s from:aegis
a111: 4 results for "from:aegis", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Aaegis
mircea_popescu: what's the lul ?
asciilifeform: that last appeared to nod to ninjashotgun.
mircea_popescu: !!rated aegis
deedbot: mircea_popescu has not rated aegis.
mircea_popescu: good enough.
asciilifeform: vpn/privateinternetaccess/aegis << ahahahahalol
asciilifeform: did somebody turn over some old firewood or wat.
shinohai: vpn doesn't have ability to run znc obviously
mircea_popescu: anyway, friendly reminder : many people run this chan as a main/major part of their tty arrangement, read all the lines, you do NOT wish to advertise yourself as an annoyance.
trinque: knubie: I see it giving instant responses, what delayed
trinque: !!key knubie
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/B2B6A92EB5C140CDE1FEBB31A69A09AA24142942.asc
knubie: trinque: Ahh, worked for me now, had a couple min delay on the otp
trinque: I disbelieve, but w/e
mircea_popescu: cuz i don't insta-v my otps. cuz why would i.
trinque: ah. knubie the command takes effect when someone does !!v
knubie: all good, now sorted.. =)
knubie: thank you everyone for being helpful
mircea_popescu: cheers.
mircea_popescu: "# fillerchar: A chosen special filler character to be used. This character is assumed to have no occurrence in the given plaintextstring and is not alphabetical." << holyshit wat.
asciilifeform: inbandism!
mircea_popescu: this, incidentally, is why systematic education became a thing.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-05#1188842 << possibly see also.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-07-05 23:53 asciilifeform: or that other thread, which i can't seem to find, where we spoke of how 'maths wot is not essential for being published, but for even having publishable ideas instead of burning your life on fibonacci sequences or some other solved/irrelevant dead end'
mircea_popescu: pantsuit paradise over here, because really nothing is easier than to brand such efforts. "dude is evidently a cook, look at $example".
mircea_popescu: kook*
mircea_popescu: "oh, you mean the nut with the fillerchar???" works, if one's inclined/
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so are you implementing maurer in ffa ?
asciilifeform: dunnoyet.
asciilifeform: i'm not satisfied that it's good for anyffin
mircea_popescu would like at least to have to play with.
mircea_popescu: it could be good as in-chan prng.
asciilifeform: eventually prolly implement
mircea_popescu: nuffinwrongwith that.
phf: shinohai: hah, it's not on her in this case, in fact she's relishing the opportunity. it's just not in my nature
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: adult p has a '?' op
asciilifeform: ( not hard to guess what it does )
mircea_popescu: fg and mr ?
asciilifeform: just fg
mircea_popescu: yes but that's not prime see
asciilifeform: fills fz on top of stack up from fg.
mircea_popescu: sometimes you want primes, for purpoises.
asciilifeform: well yes, that's another op.
asciilifeform: 'P'
mircea_popescu: oh i see now i misspoke. i didn't mean prng, i meant prpng
asciilifeform: wassat
mircea_popescu: pseudo-random prime number generator!
shinohai: mircea_popescu: I regge'd and messaged him, though his profile shows: Last Activity Mar 4 2017, 10:53 AM
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we dun have a bounded crapola-to-prime converter. was sorta the orig thread the mauerer thing was a continuation of.
mircea_popescu: shinohai ty
shinohai: np!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, yes, that's what i'm, saying, kinda interesting to see if this may actually work as that.
mircea_popescu: so basically, the summary would be, that fellow took symmetric cyphering, sawed it open, used half of the parts for an ad-hoc rsa padding scheme, and implemented the whole kaboodle in python./
mircea_popescu: other than obvious/glaring/cosmetic issues, this isn't even such a terrible idea ; though the properties of the conventional padding scheme are something you'd regret losing.
mircea_popescu: !#s oadp
a111: 1 result for "oadp", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=oadp
asciilifeform: oaep
mircea_popescu: ^
knubie: Oprah for president? geee what's next..
mircea_popescu: lol 2020 oprah-trump election would rock.
knubie: haha, would be fun to watch, must admit..
knubie: who would you consider the favorite
mircea_popescu: she could go on the apprentice, he could go on the "obnoxious mammie wants to pretend she reads" show...
mircea_popescu: kanzure dr phil.
shinohai: lol
knubie: lol
knubie: add Ricki Lake to the mix..
mircea_popescu: dr phil ie short for phylactery, is mccain's nicjkname neh ?
knubie: got such bad heart burn out of nowhere..
diana_coman: knubie, play eulora, might do something either way to that heartburn at least
asciilifeform: meanwhile, elsewhere,
asciilifeform: '...To the authors’ knowledge, the only known prime generation algorithm for which the statistical distance to the uniform distribution can be bounded is the trivial one: pick a random (odd) integer in the desired interval, return it if it is prime, and try again otherwise. The output distribution of this algorithm is exactly uniform... ...By contrast, the PRIMEINC algorithm... pick a random number and increase it until a prime is
asciilifeform: found) only consumes roughly as many random bits as the size of the output primes, but we can show that its output distribution, even if it can be shown to have high entropy if the prime r-tuple conjecture holds, is also provably quite far from uniform... It is likely that most algorithms that proceed deterministically beyond an initial random choice, including those of Joye, Paillier and Vaudenay... ...or Maurer... exhibit similar d
asciilifeform: istributional biases.'
asciilifeform: ( https://eprint.iacr.org/2011/481.pdf )
mircea_popescu: yes, likely.
knubie: diana_coman: what's eulora?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 2 frenchies, they actually bothered to do a bit of experiment. and found that the 'primeinc' distrib loox nothing like the natural one.
diana_coman: knubie, a game by s.mg; see trilema.com s.mg category; logs of #eulora; http://www.dianacoman.com/category/eulora/ ; http://www.eulorum.org/Eulora
asciilifeform: all kindsa weird. ( and not so hard to think of some reasons as to why. )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform besides the fundamental (you gotta power your guess engine with something, guess whart you're powering it with) ?
shinohai: Also knubie /join #eulora
asciilifeform: more proximately, kochian ('primeinc') gen will ~never give you the 2nd half of a twinprime pair
knubie: diana_coman: thanks
trinque: http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/01/09/stephen-k-bannon-steps-breitbart-news-network/ << guess his hands are off his "weapons" again
mircea_popescu: why is this in "big government" ?>
trinque: maybe trump called somebody.
mircea_popescu: who, bannon ?
knubie: make Trump great again...
mircea_popescu: "steve is a valued part of our legacy" ouch.
mircea_popescu: btw, in pantsuit distillate terminology is "legacy" as to the future or as to the past ?
mircea_popescu: also what's the diff between executive chairman (ie, member of the board doing the ceo job) and ceo ?
trinque: I'd say Trump and Breitbart owners wanted Bannon out after losing Alabama.
trinque: as to that, americans love making up titles.
mircea_popescu: either that or the "dumb as a brick" comment.
mircea_popescu: either that or the "princeling is made of polenta".
shinohai: They have to give themselves fancy titles since they can't be a part of The Most Chauvinist Serene Order Of The Holes Gloriouses
mircea_popescu: or, possibly, the $100 tomahawk inventory burning resulting in ~0 roi of any kind. or or or.
mircea_popescu: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/08/books/review/trump-michael-wolff.html << in other lulz, the new york times now free speech fundamentalists.
mircea_popescu: a remarkably rediscovered vocation!
BingoBoingo: Well, until tomorrow
BingoBoingo: Then they return to censorhabit
BingoBoingo: https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/3787690/morbidly-obese-pregnant-woman-whose-toyboy-lover-fed-her-through-a-funnel-is-now-facing-a-desperate-battle-to-lose-weight-so-she-wont-lose-their-baby/
mircea_popescu: deep principled inspection! does it say "non pantsuit shouldn't be in position of power" ? FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!11 does it say non pantsuit things ? UNFORTUNATE FREE SPEECH FUNDAMENTALISM!!!!
mircea_popescu: everything is good but not in excess, see.
mircea_popescu: these fucktards are god's personal gift to comedy goldmines everywhere. just fields upon endless fields of permalactating lulzcows.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-08#1766790 << xemacs was joint work by sun and lucid, it's hard to say who's the durps here, since it was a bunch of professionals with lisp machine background trying to plug particularly nasty holes in emacs architecture (back before there even was an architecture)☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-08 00:55 asciilifeform: buncha derps in 1990s ran off to mikehearn emacs, back in the day.
knubie: BingoBoingo: wow..
ben_vulpes: good to see that some things never change, like BingoBoingo's taste in news
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Just because there's far less of them here doesn't mean they have value
phf: my read on the situation is that it's a bunch of lisp machiners taking emacs and trying to turn it into a lisp machine, and rms having a ptsd reaction to it
mircea_popescu: the lulz are endless, "wolff is a well known hack of 0 credibility, but his current crop of nonsense confirms '''what we already know''' so tjhere is that". ah, such lulz.
mircea_popescu: phf the only contentious portion none of the cucks addressed AT ALL is that lucid also wanted to take over. which may or may not be the right move, but utterly can't be "the one thing we don't talk about".
asciilifeform: phf: i dunget it, wtf was so lispm about xemacs
asciilifeform: afaik it was and is 100% dross
asciilifeform: e.g. variablewidthfonts , jpeg support, etc
mircea_popescu: what's your comparison point, emacs 18 ?
asciilifeform: sure?
mircea_popescu: the data model of period emacs painfully reminds one of original eulora.
asciilifeform: what period. emacs today ( genuine emacs, that is ) worx exactly same as 18
mircea_popescu: discussion is what's under the hood not how the gui feels.
phf: that's because you don't look under the hood
asciilifeform: mebbe because it actually works
phf: i don't know if you've spent any significant amount of time with it, but i literally got tricked into installing xemacs first (cause x means it's gui yes?? 97 me)
mircea_popescu: the gui focus of their endless flamewars was dumb and not particularily flattering, netiehr for the gabriel/jwz side nor for the rms+retarded eurobois side
asciilifeform: phf: metoo actually
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: orig emacs pre-dates rms. goes back into the mists of time.
phf: but i then used it for a years, and learned elisp with it, and they were clearly making changes to elisp to make it not suck
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that may be so, but, again, have you looked at the data model ?
asciilifeform: phf: for my enlightenment, what changes ?
asciilifeform: because... it still sucks
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not in detail
mircea_popescu: this i judge as the right move, otherwise might've hanged self in despair years prior to republic.
asciilifeform: yea the other 3 asciilifeforms prolly looked, ate nagant
mircea_popescu: anyway, 1990s period /me "emacs is fucked, use vi, at least it's shorter and doesn't do anything" very much related to all this.
asciilifeform: it also helps that i dun actually ~like~ emacs. i use it 'через нехочу'
phf: asciilifeform; first class characters like in common lisp for one, proper defstruct implementation, also they clarified significantly the buffer structure
asciilifeform: i dun see what good any of these do outside of an actual lispm
asciilifeform: it's like that mircea_popescu article re running dishwasher from tank water
mircea_popescu: presumably they do the good where one can at least read through and not want to hurt self ?
asciilifeform: it wants city pressure
phf: "hey man i just drive this tank, i don't know what makes it work" ok then.
asciilifeform: phf: in all fairness, i barfed trying to read sbcl also
asciilifeform: pc lisps are more or less all revolting to read.
asciilifeform: imho.
phf: mircea_popescu: to be fair both xemacs and emacs of that vintage are the height of readable elegance, compared to emacs of any later period
phf: so whatever lucid did on top of emacs code was probably an improvement
asciilifeform: phf: i'm curious re the politics of the continuing schism. what do the xemacsits and the orig-emacsists actually disagree on in modern day ?
mircea_popescu: phf wait, which is it ?
phf: which whach?
phf: asciilifeform nfi
mircea_popescu: you say a) emacs of 1990s were height of elegance andf b) whatever lucid did was improvement
mircea_popescu: pick one ?
phf: actually i'm not sure i can, it's been a while since i've seen xemacs internals (i.e. >10 years). the point i was trying to make is that emacs ascii is talking about is a wholy different beats from the 1990s items, which were at the very least not cancerous
mircea_popescu: ah. i dunno, i guess not cancerous in the "but i got id saying im female" sense ; but very much had the clap.
asciilifeform: this is tempting me to excavate ancient emacses..
mircea_popescu: in the EXACT http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-09#1767895 sense of, "well i dunno what to do with this data and so here's me warping a vector into a string"☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-09 20:48 mircea_popescu: "# fillerchar: A chosen special filler character to be used. This character is assumed to have no occurrence in the given plaintextstring and is not alphabetical." << holyshit wat.
phf: so emacs had some architecture, lucid took that architecture and tried making it more of a lisp machine (i.e. better foundation for writing elisp applications), then they tried pulling google.vs.linus and failed
mircea_popescu: eh nfi, lucid tried to make it a qt app. except qt didn't exist yet.
mircea_popescu: nfw*
mircea_popescu: because "commercial" meant "clicker monkeys" and whatevers.
phf: i can buy that interpretation
mircea_popescu: and rms saw ~no value in supporting x, especially if that was going to break any more of the thoroughly broken bag of fractures they were tending as emacs 18
mircea_popescu: besideswhich, at the time it was entirely unclear x will survive.
phf: x was already supported in emacs by then
mircea_popescu: imo it's a wonder it did.
mircea_popescu: phf this term belies a variety of realities.
mircea_popescu: "supported".
asciilifeform: as supported as now.
phf: nah, definitely not, now emacs has an ungodly amount of xemacsisms in it. variable sized reflowable inline objects, that are also x11 windows and such
asciilifeform: they couldn't embrace&extinguish, so infiltrated and poisoned yea
phf: heh, that's a twist
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i expect the political divide is 100% xemacs will only accept merger INTO xemacs, which is to say, to get rid of rms, because he's useless / other camp can't get over "rms is useless".
phf: i wonder of customize- facilitiy was already there by 18
mircea_popescu: tbh and fwiw, if i ran the xemacs i would not permit rms anywhere near any sort of merged variant either.
asciilifeform: rms is a mushroom nao, tho
phf: for the curious emacs 18.59 2039069b where's 22.3 is 48010347b (that's just c,h and el)
phf: and looking just at the kernel (and generously ignoring various xlibraries and shitplatforms for 22) 497576 and 1439148 respectively
shinohai: https://lust.agency/ <<< "a goal to enable all human beings on earth to find their perfect sexual partner anonymously." What kind of sense does that even make?
mircea_popescu: "i would like money from the internetz on my own terms kthx"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform 1990s rms, either. man was possibly the worst middle management i ever saw.
mircea_popescu: and contrary to his grandiose aspirations (which came and went, so not uniform at least), he never was more than that, alcatel drone X on floor Y.
asciilifeform: this is next best thing after ilf & petrov's famous 'cures foot itch, mice, and peeling paint'
mircea_popescu: sure, he's the only one of the cuckarmy that even stepped forward etc.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, i can't think of any project that actually thrived under his management. systemd tard pm'd circles around a decade's worth of collected rms effort in half a year.
mircea_popescu: this is not nothing ; even if it isn't the something one'd like it to be.
asciilifeform: dunno that rms actually ~did~ anything in past 20+ yr. the man is a living flag.
mircea_popescu: i can accept that terminology ; above statement becomes "of fucking course lucid didn't want an inanimate object seated in the chair"
mircea_popescu: "nor would whatever successor today".
mircea_popescu: phf also, the split didn't happen around 18.59, it happened around whatever the fuck it was, 18.10. there was a period when both lucid and fsf were releasing "newer" minor versions, skipping the other's.
phf: yeah, 59 is the earliest one i have
mircea_popescu: but that was what, 1993 ? iirc jwz item was 1991 ?
mircea_popescu: not to mention they were both proceeding off "alpha" 19 which had been brewing at that time for at least 18 months.
mircea_popescu: meaning you need a 1990s emacs, serious antiquariania over here.
phf: a proper base for genesis!
mircea_popescu: TECMAC!
phf: heh, previous amuzing thread on mr. gabriel http://btcbase.org/log/2015-12-09#1339749☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-12-09 21:04 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-12-2015#1339543 << r. gabriel was the 'worse is better' guy.
phf: oh ffs, literally down two lines down in the logs
mircea_popescu: ok, here, jwz variant : emacs 18.48 released 18sep1987!!!! off which they started epoch, and 18.55 off which they based both 19 and through that venue lucid version
mircea_popescu: https://www.jwz.org/doc/emacs-timeline.html
mircea_popescu: so the point of comparison would be i guess either 48 or 55
mircea_popescu: apparently mule was originally "nihongo emacs" ? hurr.
asciilifeform: phf: i'd actually rather see a resurrected zwei, than ancient cmachine cruft emacs, really
mircea_popescu: (the whole nihongo affair may be interesting to the student of high functioning autist idiocy because it's to my knowledge the only documented case of japanese being incredibly fucking dense in the sense of "dumber for being smart than if you weren't smart at all")
mircea_popescu: anyway, i suspect this was at the time the true problem : jwz wanted to unicode the japanese way and rms didn't even understand what's being discussed (which -- major fucking failure for the role, incidentally).
mircea_popescu: but, new stockings parade demands my presence, so bbl.
phf: naggum was pro unicode also
phf: mule is probably part of the greater concern within the overal situation which was japanese and unicode
phf: japs hated unicode for own, peculiar reasons, and still mostly do. the solution they were trying to push through on emacs actually supported their peculiar use case.
phf: oh a relevant thread http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-03#1513931☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-08-03 15:40 phf: the whole font changes meaning take two is coming from the japanese. they were actively promoting this idea back during early unicode standardization days, where there was a strong drive to include every idiosyncratic version of kanji in the standard, because "that's how my family writes it in our last name".