BingoBoingo: Cooking steaks for the Peruana to celebrate the end of nationality as a thing
BingoBoingo: And the Uruguayos at the hostel were all in favor of unifying with Croatia before 2022
BingoBoingo: Both cuntries are within 1,000,000 warm bodies of each other
BingoBoingo: Unlike the attempt at a maritime adventure, this effort has time on its side
BingoBoingo: And for the logs the steaks in question are 402 grams of entrecot, cost of 130 pesos
mircea_popescu: in other upbeat news, i finally figured out esthlos 's byline. leibniz huh.
a111: Logged on 2016-03-13 16:22 mircea_popescu: nice work with the html parser, how's it going ?
a111: Logged on 2018-07-15 15:42 mircea_popescu: if anyone has serious issues with this better get a portage candidate up asap so it can be imported when cuntoo comes, because otherwise it's as dead as the woodchipped people.
mircea_popescu: lmao, "diogenes of the single candle", what gems lie burried in teh logs!
a111: Logged on 2018-07-15 19:32 mircea_popescu: check out this beauty : dpkg -S /usr/lib/libGL.so.1 > dpkg: /usr/lib/libGL.so.1 not found. meanwhile $ ldd /usr/bin/glxinfo | grep "libGL" > libGL.so.1 => /usr/lib/mesa/libGL.so.1 (0x00007f129e644000)
diana_coman: and no, although we are atm still stuck on using cs-boost of sorts, at least no opengl on serverside
diana_coman: oh, and in good news it turns out that older version of screen compiles fine on proto-cuntoo, hooray!
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2018-07-15 18:03 mircea_popescu: oh, and to piss off trinque ave1 asciilifeform whoever else : quote last line of ldd --version on those vintage gccs ? :D
a111: Logged on 2015-04-06 08:34 mircea_popescu: "In this article I am going to show you how to create an executable that runs arbitrary code if it's examined by `ldd`. I have also written a social engineering scenario on how you can get your sysadmin to unknowingly hand you his privileges."
a111: Logged on 2018-07-16 14:03 diana_coman: oh, and in good news it turns out that older version of screen compiles fine on proto-cuntoo, hooray!
a111: Logged on 2018-07-15 19:17 deedbot: mod6 paid jurov 0.46713262
mircea_popescu: it was the lulz of all time, /me attempted demonstrative "here, you stupid bitch, this is how computers work" only for the thing to explode, spent day fighting obscura before had build back in working order.
diana_coman: has anyone else run into this sort of thing before? checking if pkg-config recognizes zlib... yes; checking for zlib-config... no
mircea_popescu: diana_coman yes, me above lol. "is there a libgl ? yes. is it located somewhere ? no."
diana_coman: basically I have zlib installed and I even checked: it IS in /lib but ./configure doesn't consider it fine
☟︎ diana_coman: and for added lol, same configure on current server reports same there BUT it says zlib is fine, ugh
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, it's not even that, it's not a location thing apparently
diana_coman: oh, and similar issue as above for...curl; wtf
diana_coman: I guess I'll need to dig into the configure script to figure this one out if nobody saw it before, huh
mircea_popescu: they may not even have the packages. might get away with copying something, but...
diana_coman: asciilifeform, given the amount of those around it would seem we are on VERY fertile ground here
mircea_popescu: in other news, here's something i want to put before the lordship :
mircea_popescu: as we're contemplating an eulora client rewrite, i am contemplating the following code release paradigm : client author a) releases code encrypted to l1, signed and deeded (so basically, gpg -aer asciilifeform -r ave1 -r etc) ; b) releases precompiled binaries for allcomers.
☟︎☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: this release paradigm has the advantages that 1. permits us to control binaries, which means stuff like
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834888 (which i'm very much impressed with, btw) ; 2. permits to reserve some interest for the author, because the strategic thinking over at minigame is that we'll want client competition (from skinning all the way to all the way) and remuneration by installs (hence all that hash dance in
☝︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: 3. very clearly quashes the idiocy of rms-ism AND ers-ism ("open source" bla bla), and makes the strong political statement that indeed there is a difference between nose breathers and mouthbreathers and so on.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: the evident disadvantage is that this only works if we can rely on l1 to keep a secret ; which means things (such as, that it can't be as big, for instance).
☟︎ mircea_popescu: thoughts plox! (and i specifically want everyone to say at least an ack, so let's page asciilifeform ave1 ben_vulpes BingoBoingo danielpbarron diana_coman hanbot lobbes mod6 phf spyked trinque )
☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: i don't specifically know whether this would work well for systems work. but we're starting this discussion with a ~client~. 99% of people WANT the binary in thew first place.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, it's dubious that you really can keep source code secret; sure, hurdles help but...
mircea_popescu: diana_coman this depends. "in general" it's dubious people can keep sexual secrets ; and yet women managed to keep mine from betas for many many years.
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated Mocky 3 at 2018/05/21 06:31:29 << Mocky Habeeb. Wrote a book on Amazon DB ; works for infraWise (which is pretty lulzy, but don't hold it against him).
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, suppose for a minute that someone not in l1 etc comes with a reasonably-close copy of one of those secret-code clients; does that mean l1 leaked or what?
diana_coman: a decent claim to being original author of that code or to what?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't aim, not to accomplish nor to anything. but i wrote it down! by numbers! what i imagine the outcomes to be.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman to whatever he wants to pursue. be it "you fucking assholes" or whatever else.
phf: asciilifeform: a side point is that we have existing proprietary proggies, that are right now extreme cases of "bus factor". deedbot, phuctor, etc.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I know, I'm just trying to figure out what this would mean
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, ah, that helps actually - I think I'm getting a better idea of what you're aiming at
mircea_popescu: phf i do not believe the bus factor is even remotely important there.
phf: mircea_popescu: that was a markov chain comment, that came out of "we already have proprietary code"
mircea_popescu: i do not presently believe it is ~possible~ to not to ; idiotic socialistoidisms aside. and no, i don't think the world, or even the garbage bin, of the "idealistic" "visionary" nonsense, either.
mircea_popescu: "oh, the code belongs to the people". things can't belong to things incapable of ownership. which is why the stars belong to me, not me to mother earth or w/e is the american indian femview.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exactly ; in which vein one'd much rather have the original precious cuntlets that did it than the original symbolix.
phf: well, it's kind of at the core of tmsr, that king lear starts with a folly
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, there is of course the fact that l1 is neither for life nor perhaps yet all that difficult to get in and out - I don't know whether this is a l1 matter or a s.mg board matter
☟︎ mircea_popescu: but just because one's out does it mean one's now an asshole ?
mircea_popescu: yes, obviously, putting any sort of depending burden upon the l1 means it'll mean more than less. but how much do we want it to mean in the first place ?
diana_coman: it doesn't automatically mean that; but if it turns out yes, it's the client's author that is left out to dry, no?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a) there's no practical possibilty for collective answerable ; b) as discussed in previous thread (when you were trying to make up contest rules), it's not possible to prove the owner himself didn't leak.
mircea_popescu: that's how you fuck women, yes ? they keep secrets and the verifying is impossible ?
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, q really is why l1 ? basically what does l1 have to do with eulora directly?
mircea_popescu: diana_coman that part is coincidental ; it just happened that the first candidate for testing this paradigm happened to be owned by minigame.
mircea_popescu: are you talking to what i'm saying or to what some other guy mighv'e said that was also an idiot ?
mircea_popescu: how is the described process cost anything ? i dun get it. because deedbot ends up storing tons of loc ?
diana_coman: asciilifeform, as I understand it, this is first and foremost a political statement; the gains are not from "oooh, you don't know my ugly code"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform really ?! we have all sorts of things in confidence i thought!
mircea_popescu: like i dunno, don't up all idiots so they shiot the log. thart's not a confidence ?
mircea_popescu: but the "keep magic coad from heathens" is your contribution to this discussion!
mircea_popescu: well... there are engines that work by soaking. moreover what is this, metaphore exercise hour ?
a111: Logged on 2018-07-16 15:44 mircea_popescu: this release paradigm has the advantages that 1. permits us to control binaries, which means stuff like
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834888 (which i'm very much impressed with, btw) ; 2. permits to reserve some interest for the author, because the strategic thinking over at minigame is that we'll want client competition (from skinning all the way to all the way) and remuneration by installs (hence all that hash dance in
a111: Logged on 2018-07-16 15:44 mircea_popescu: 3. very clearly quashes the idiocy of rms-ism AND ers-ism ("open source" bla bla), and makes the strong political statement that indeed there is a difference between nose breathers and mouthbreathers and so on.
mircea_popescu: now, do you dispute that it permits control of the released binaries ?
mircea_popescu: but i mean... lookit, the author will make a static binary ; and who the fuck is going to make a drepper systemd thing ?
mircea_popescu: dude. situation 1, as currently : you release code, mp like an idiot compiles it on ubuntu, jnow your code exists as a drepper mockery of itself. as far as the machine can tell, you asciilifeform are an idiot.
mircea_popescu: situation 2, as contemplated : you release a binary, which mp like an idiot runs, and that's that. the machine no longer has cause to think alf's an idiot.
trinque: you use bins currently, whenever bootstrapping a compiler
trinque: the open problems are facts of life today
trinque: meanwhile there may be place for a solution better than "go use satan's gcc / gentoo livecd / etc to bootstrap
mircea_popescu: i have to fucking compile every thing the 9000th time, i can't just put binary images on my 9001th rockchip ?!
☟︎ mircea_popescu: "sure, ima totally take 88 hours to emerge world, AGAIN"
trinque had the cuntoo builder set aside bins for exactly this reason
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but these cotemplated here are built under control, of the only human invoplved in the relationship!
mircea_popescu: that's why i'm not fucking concerned of "l1 leaks". who the fuck are they going to leak TO ? the goats ?
trinque: and then asked ave1 for binary-reproducible gcc as the logical next step
trinque: process might be to have l1 build, gossip about the hashes of build they produced, at which point who cares who built, that's the item
mircea_popescu: and no, you've not published phuctor, nor liked the idea. shall i quote you or can you quote yourself ?
mircea_popescu: nevermind "shed some light". the point fucking remains, as long as secrets are kept secrets are kept, what the fuck.
mircea_popescu: for all you know, BingoBoingo hooked up the kvm while you slept and mod6 read your postgres code and is still laughing.
mircea_popescu: yet somehow ~there~ you see why this is not much of a concern.
mircea_popescu: this is no sort of life, incidentally. it's what the old "engineering" used to be, "construct complicated looms that are friable and hard to maintain so as to have an eat."
mircea_popescu: but even that aside, i still don't see wtf is wrong with "we'll produce sane binaries instead of waiting for whatever shit-kit rando luser has to spit out whatever it does".
mircea_popescu: seems altogether an improvement of overal object code being run.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, how do we "control binaries" though?
phf: (my logotron has not been that way since the fateful burning man of 2 years ago, now "maintenance" involves adapting to changing landscape of e.g. freenode, etc.)
mircea_popescu: diana_coman well because say mocky does the release. ima frown if his release sucks, and he doesn't want that ; and his toolchain is to be expected better than literally rando camwhore's, "i dunno how kleopatra works". neh ?
diana_coman: yes, but how do you even know that the binary he releases is really the code he deeded?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but i ~didn't propose that~ in 2016, either, did i.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman you see the code he deeded and see can't reproduce. so now you two have something to talk about
mircea_popescu: which, i'm told, is the true basis of all happy marriages.
diana_coman: well, if he releases for windows, who the fuck see can't reproduce
mircea_popescu: i didn't make this world ; i'm just trying to live in it.
mircea_popescu: and yes, reproducible builds ~WILL~ happen. but guess what ? if and only if something actually depends on it.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman note that "binary identity" is not even necessary a premise. you can go "hey shithead, why the fuck are you linking dynamic mysql when there's been a static one for five years". or w/e.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: ~something to talk about~. it can be many things, and most not even contemplable at the onset.
mircea_popescu: and the correct pill re understanding is to cut the examples out once and for all!
mircea_popescu: and also, consider : eulora client is ~definitionally~ for all comers. these people won't run your toolchain anyway.
mircea_popescu: there's no need to explain anything to anyone outside these here walls.
mircea_popescu: the correct reaction re explanations is ~that the subject aspiring move inside the walls~, nothing else.
Mocky: xbox game bought today will run on every xbox. no requirement to hook up to the net and get updates.
mircea_popescu: also the first promise microsoft kept, to my knowledge
Mocky: you'll get games that will always work, for next n years when next console version comes out
mircea_popescu was always spiteful of the boxen, never bought never liked, never socialized with the console kids etc.
mircea_popescu: Mocky ohhh, so it's not ~every xbox~, it's ~every thisbox~.
mircea_popescu: me too, but i didn't like the sort of crowd it created. years later i read what zappa had to say about disco crowd, almost exactly the same sentiment.
mircea_popescu: btw, you know the beaches here are full of hermit crabs ?
phf: mircea_popescu: playstation was/is backwards compatible, i'm not sure about xbox, could also be
Mocky: newer xbox will play older xbox games provided you get "online update"
mircea_popescu: let me tell you something about the crabs, i found fascinating last i was getting a beach blowjob. so, they all move in ~same direction, as far as eye can see, thousands of them. and as you say, right, "all that is mine i carry with". now, if they happen to run into some food, they'll stop a little, have a little, MOVE ON. they make 0 attempt to ~carry the food~. or even search for it.
mircea_popescu: turns out that the most carrying animal is also the least carry-concerned. wouldn't you expect snail has saddle bags for the shell ?
mircea_popescu: half the aftermarket for fucking rv's ("wouldn't it be great if we regressed 10mn years ?!") is pouches of all sorts of kinds.
mircea_popescu feels the urge to include "- the human animal is a beast that dies and if he's got money he buys and buys and buys and I think the reason he buys everything he can buy is that in the back of his mind he has the crazy hope that one of his purchases will be life everlasting!—Which it never can be… " for the pleasure of future readers.
Mocky: revisiting upstack, why share secret code with l1? to keep author honest re: binaries, have conversation if something seems off?
mircea_popescu: you have no idea what the crab expects. so the hermit crab, yes ? it has no lungs. nor does it have fish gills. what it has is a sort of spider-like book things ; and they need to be wet, but in air. in water--drowns. if dried -- asphyxiates. talk about evoluted tech.
mircea_popescu: Mocky yes ; and to provide ~some~ recourse to the herd.
mircea_popescu: but really, to capture ~all~ the benefit of code sharing, with none of the downsides.
mircea_popescu: these are people ~you actually want~ to read your code. heck, you'd pay them, if possible.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i liked sahara air. did not like landscape at all, desert's fucking depressing, but anyways.
Mocky: maybe share only with those who have specific interest / aligned interest
mircea_popescu: and i suppose this is where i insert an important distinction, the lack of which perhaps informed most of alf's earlier protests : provided l1 has code asdiscussed, there are two, very strictly distinct, leaks. 1. is when x guy in lordship shares it with y guy not in lordship. 2. is when x guy in lordship ~publishes~, which is to say, shares with ~unspecified~ outsiders.
mircea_popescu: type 1 is very different from type 2 ; it's perhaps how you train a slave, or how you make a friend, or whatever. type 2 is very ~visible~.
mircea_popescu: Mocky i don't imagine it's a firm "all l1 absolutely or no deal". it was just phrased exemplarily.
diana_coman: my understanding of it so far is that code is made accessible to l1 only i.e. not delivered to each personally and requiring a stamp or something
mircea_popescu: if it's deeded it's deeded, you don't have to look if you don't feel like looking.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, exactly; it was for Mocky's Mocky> maybe share only with those who have specific interest / aligned interest
mircea_popescu: (i suppose you technically have to keep it around, if it happens you're stuck with somethign else you want in a bundle, but anyways)
diana_coman: basically the specific interest is not code's author - he deeds it and then who is interested and in l1 looks at it
mircea_popescu: it is after all a ~managed~ process, and misgivings should be aired rather than festered anyways.
diana_coman: I honestly don't see why would it be a problem to share with x but not with y in l1
mircea_popescu: if the answer is "you're a poopyhead", it'll have to be somehow resolved, neh ?
mircea_popescu: i thought those were mostly the result of widespread illiteracy in the ss.
mircea_popescu: have lotta "senators" who can't read, end up with a publicly funded cliffnotes agency.
mircea_popescu: (which, contrary to all the pretense, is 100% what cia/bia/mia/fuckwhatia IS)
mircea_popescu: so all the better, we're looking for more ways to kill the few remaining survivors anyway.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, tbh I'm seeing it less and less as a "keep secrets" thing
mircea_popescu: man should be given as much length of rope to hang self with as wants.
diana_coman: it's true it was worded with that hook in it and I bit on it first for sure but I'm reading it more and more as "we make it public; but what public is there outside l1??"
mircea_popescu: diana_coman on re-read, i agree, suboptimal wording on my part (owing, principally, to lack of terminology)
mircea_popescu: o btw... hey Mocky ever considered moving to uruguay ? it's cheaper ; and BingoBoingo could sure use some company.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, hm, I don't follow/think it's an apt metaphor there
Mocky: what if someone in l1 wants to one day make eulora client, has access to src of all clients to date. If it was me in l1 and it were another who was client author, I think I would hesitate to make my own client
mircea_popescu: Mocky why wouldn't you just act like a sane human being and tell them, "hey, i'd like to participate / work on this project."
diana_coman: Mocky, do you mean that l1 basically are sort of locked out of making their own client because the more logical thing to do would be to collaborate with existing author?
mircea_popescu: diana_coman no, he means he spent 20 years with the retards, ended up soaking in inept notions about "intellectual property"
diana_coman: asciilifeform, server is quite a different story from client
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i wasn't proposing this be a default. too soon for that, in any case. i was proposing this may have merit & utility.
diana_coman: at any rate, atm I'd have even more nightmares with server under my pillow!!!
mircea_popescu: other than deedbot storage bill and some minimum administration of pleas, "hey, he published my java on malbolge.com mocksite"
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, tbh I keep thinking that I'd rather have at least someone in l1 signing a binary before I run it but I'm not even sure that makes sense atm without imposing therefore on l1 to build the binary
mircea_popescu: i still don't know what promise is supposede to have been made!
mircea_popescu: the usual eulora client luser won't ask for anything before runnign any binary they can get hands on.
diana_coman: certainly; but eulora server hashes thing already selects some binaries only, no?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform maybe this is not evident, but there's a large difference between client and server in a mmorpg. here discussed is client, equivalent of browser in phuctor-netuser relationship
diana_coman: so would it accept any binary? a binary signed by at least 1 person in l1?
mircea_popescu: diana_coman entirely my arbitrary call. i'll put whatever strings in there i put, and well... what can you do.
diana_coman: I suspect for fun eulora can even sell 1 secret every 10 years and it won't hurt much, lol
mircea_popescu: heck, it lets people sample it every day, what. they've so far discovered so very much... lol.
Mocky: could have a special item in game that will spit out a secret once per day, if you can figure out how to use it...
diana_coman: I thought of Sheckley's Ask a Foolish Question but it might be just me
diana_coman: so go ane improve ye young man! uhm, old, I forgot it's me the youngun
lobbesbot: Logged on 2015-08-08 05:20:40: <mircea_popescu> there's even bezzle magic goldbags
diana_coman: there's the golden goose too! and for that matter there was that "pay the oracle to give you answers" event for all the good it did
☟︎ mircea_popescu: ahahah yeah. and imo did plenty of good, convinced me i'm a great poetastre!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this was the guy with the hour, wans';t he ?
Mocky: oh yes, that was good. but i never read the original
mircea_popescu: uncharacteristically close to original, even has same ending. i just cleanned up the science a little.
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1835051 << to continue on this : the whol.e fucking STRENGTH, of both mytyical-lisp and mythical-emacs (not the objects at any point extant, but the imaginary figments in the wide eyed userbase's minds) was specifically that ... wait for it... does the exact same thing, keeps binary of "world" around, saves time thereby.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2018-07-16 16:31 mircea_popescu: i have to fucking compile every thing the 9000th time, i can't just put binary images on my 9001th rockchip ?!
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I enjoyed his stories during those 2-3 years when I read almost only SF, 16-18 or there about; when I re-read now I kept getting annoyed because I keep finding it starts well and then sort of veers into what he'd like the world to be rather than what it is
diana_coman: asciilifeform, for some more than for others
BingoBoingo: On this sunny pleasantly warm alt-January day I went for a walk and returned to OMG logs
mircea_popescu: Mocky btw i was serious about uruguay. you ever thought of travel ?
Mocky: i've been meaning to learn spanish. they got cute girls there?
Mocky: def not wanting to move to china, lol
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo do you have a guestroom/bed anything btw ?
Mocky: asciilifeform, not everywhere if you don't see cute in asian or african
Mocky: white onthe inside!
mircea_popescu: Mocky how about this, you pick two weeks this month/next, i'll pick up your airfare, BingoBoingo will set you up, and you can go hang out in uruguay.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo do you have a guestroom/bed anything btw ? << I have a place to put a surface for guest accomodations
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo do you like the idea of hosting or should i include an airbnb in his vacation package.
BingoBoingo: I can host a few nights, but this is a bit cramped for a two week stay.
Mocky: sounds like an adventure, let me consider
BingoBoingo: Well, from barrio to barrio "This is old graffiti" "This is recent graffiti"
Mocky: correction, let me consider how i can make it happen
mircea_popescu: they give vacations where you work, like everywhere else, don't they ?
Mocky: they do, but gotta coordinate with other rowers inthe galley
mircea_popescu: well when you're done with that coordinate with BingoBoingo for an airbnb or w/e for the relevant interval and there you go.
mircea_popescu , with 40 (rounded) years' experience in disrupting other people's lives!
BingoBoingo: <Mocky> i've been meaning to learn spanish. they got cute girls there? << Here we have them in most colors except African/Asian/Indian. The taller ones usually show up December/January
a111: Logged on 2018-07-16 15:44 mircea_popescu: thoughts plox! (and i specifically want everyone to say at least an ack, so let's page asciilifeform ave1 ben_vulpes BingoBoingo danielpbarron diana_coman hanbot lobbes mod6 phf spyked trinque )
shinohai: I think I'll order a couple and get on those experiments forthwith
mircea_popescu: basically they're negrating people for not being in #usgovt now ?
BingoBoingo: "Do you have the time?" "Sure we have now, that's all the time we need"
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated davout 5 at 2016/05/17 03:24:29 << his lordship the master of common pleas.
a111: 2018-04-14 <davout> should have synced by the end of next week
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated jurov 5 at 2016/05/17 03:25:03 << his lordship the lord treasurer.
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated Framedragger 4 at 2017/04/15 14:15:10 << His Lordship the Lord Scanner
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated shinohai 3 at 2017/04/15 14:13:48 << The Right Honorable Baron Titsbare
mircea_popescu: i kinda lost track of him myself ; but plox to maintain the wot in good working order from own pov.
a111: Logged on 2018-07-16 16:01 diana_coman: mircea_popescu, there is of course the fact that l1 is neither for life nor perhaps yet all that difficult to get in and out - I don't know whether this is a l1 matter or a s.mg board matter
a111: Logged on 2018-07-16 16:51 mircea_popescu: i dunno specifically ; im not sure he ever said.