phf: i saw that was posted in 2014, and i was mostly curious if you stuck with it. i used arensito for almost 4 years, but once i started doing corporate work, particularly management work, it became somewhat impractical.
erlehmann: two exes of mine learned neo2 immediately after i explained the concept. one of them was often frustrated because her work computer was running windows and apparently windows + keyboard layout = shitcock
erlehmann: same for OS X, apparently. my boss told me he tried to use it there and it was a pain due to something i cannot remember.
erlehmann: asciilifeform due to mod keys or what?
erlehmann: i can do qwertz still. on my work laptop i have not even changed the keycaps.
phf: well, that was a while ago (i switched back almost a decade ago), but even now more so now i spend a lot of time, working on other people's machines (i.e. developers that are stuck or need help or whatever)
phf: yeah, likewise the whole back and forth killed it for me.
erlehmann: asciilifeform i guess you cannot control your computing experience? the answer from the boss of my boss to “can i install linux on the macbook to get a sane keyboard layout” was “got it, you get a thinkpad”
erlehmann: well, in my experience it takes max. three weeks to learn a layout.
erlehmann: chatting is something where i prefer to prevent my hands hurting
erlehmann: i suspect the effect is not as notable for other people as for me, but qwertz hurts, neo2 does not.
erlehmann: i think it is unlikely that a non-self-built keyboard can do most things relevant to daily usage in hardware. especially layers, mod keys and compose.
phf: ascii's approach was to put custom firmware into an old keyboard, so that's half way there
erlehmann: asciilifeform what is your opinion of FPGAs in general? shit because complexity? nice because reprogrammable?
erlehmann: “there exists an answer” mathematician-face.jpg
erlehmann: for some reason i thought of asciilifeform when i learned about the MNT VA2000 amiga graphics card
erlehmann: shit toolchains are endemic in lots of fields it seems
erlehmann: asciilifeform acknowledged. sorry.
a111: Logged on 2015-06-17 13:17 asciilifeform: you can pick up a textbook and write a dram controller for fpga from first principles - and it won't work. because, for starters, only a small number of output cells in the chip can function on both rising and falling edge of clock cycle (what 'ddr' means) and only xilinx's closed turd knows where they are in the routing fabric;
a111: Logged on 2014-12-11 01:52 asciilifeform: decimation: notice that all known fpga manufacturers (xilinx, altera, lattice, a few others) have the same business model
erlehmann: i once met rms at a conference and asked him about viability of free hardware. his answer was along the lines of 1. apparently non-free hardware has worked for decades 2. whoever makes your board can still subvert your trustworthy design, you can't check that 3. maybe if we have star-trek-style replicators one day, hahaha
a111: Logged on 2017-01-16 23:36 asciilifeform: leaving entirely aside the question of whether ice40 can in fact be made to do anything useful with the 'open' toolchain discussed earlier, or whether a toolchain that required clang, llvm, and ten other poetteringesque abortions is 'open'
erlehmann: as far as i can remember, we did not talk about fpga. his example was some company creating your board and not you.
erlehmann: thus the remark with the star trek replicators, which he likened to compilers. just do it yourself.
erlehmann: one could probably extend david wheeler's diverse double compiling to any type of tool if sufficiently paranoid
erlehmann: asciilifeform if you are interested, i suggest to email rms yourself. he answers.
erlehmann: > A friend once asked me to watch a video with her that she was going to display on her computer using Netflix. I declined, saying that Netflix was such a threat to freedom that I felt uncomfortable with promoting its use in this way.
deedbot: erlehmann voiced for 30 minutes.
erlehmann: and rms was like “no, it was not flirting, i am very sure”
erlehmann: as a free-software enthusiast myself, i have managed to experience many invitations to “netflix and chill” entirely without netflix. freedoms preserved!
erlehmann: asciilifeform i like your project names
erlehmann: sufficiently off-putting for hipsters
erlehmann: phf does it still exist? if so, where?
erlehmann: ah funny, it does not work with a slash at the end
erlehmann: apparently it does not come from anywhere in this graphic
shinohai: Perhaps /patches is static page ?
phf: i actually patched it in the offline, but haven't had a chance to update the deployment
phf: erlehmann: so the arrow from nowhere basically means that the patch is broken, because it requires an antecedent that's missing
erlehmann: phf that makes … too much sense. thanks.
erlehmann: asciilifeform do you have an opinion on DJB redo? or maybe even a simpler design? i would only trust my own implementation and MAYBE the one from jonathan de boyne pollard (although he requires a C++ compiler as a dependency, lol)
☟︎ phf: there's a handful of those, for example in the experimental there's three patches from polarbeard, a guy who joined as we were regriding a bunch of shit, so he had to update his patches a bunch of times and then gave up. nobody cared to reintegrate his patches properly yet
phf: also my own phf-shiva-swank is broken somehow, probably because i was pressing with not "real" v tooling. actually i need to fix that..
☟︎ erlehmann: v looks like a nice approach as far as i can see (and is the reason i chose to join #trilema), but as i commented, i suspect there exist parser differentials
erlehmann: if i ever get around to making my own v toolchain (probably in bourne shell, for portability and clarity), i'll address that of course.
phf: for sure, btcbase is probably the most aggressive, because there's a very restricted state machine for parsing, but there's still some ambiguity in recognition that's an artifact of diff/patch being dodgy
erlehmann: well, vdiff would never be possible if diff and patch were definite about their inputs
phf: it does an equivalent of patch, but without calling out to c programs and without the result (or intermediate steps) touching the file system at any point
phf: well that was a bad example because the file is all genesis
erlehmann: tables are hard, let's go shopping?
phf: hmm, k. i haven't paid much attention to that styling, because i don't think anyone's using it, including myself. the press part definitely needs more ux work
erlehmann: phf the reasons seems to be that every single line on the right side is wrapped in <pre> and <span>
phf: so the way it should really be solved is that i need to better understand colorizing code (which i lifted from elsewhere) so that i can wrap the whole thing in pre and just format it without tables by doing <blame ...> <lineno ...> <line>
phf: but that makes copy pasting harder (you can't just select a chunk, because it now includes line numbers and blame)
phf: (fwiw this table based approach also looks shitty in lynx)
erlehmann: phf add following CSS to stylesheet: pre { margin-bottom: 0; }
deedbot: erlehmann voiced for 30 minutes.
erlehmann: phf i hope this change flies without a vpatch, should be evident it is not malicious
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 00:35 erlehmann: asciilifeform do you have an opinion on DJB redo? or maybe even a simpler design? i would only trust my own implementation and MAYBE the one from jonathan de boyne pollard (although he requires a C++ compiler as a dependency, lol)
a111: Logged on 2017-05-31 14:12 mircea_popescu: i suspect the idea is that systems which require something like make are broken anyway.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 00:36 phf: also my own phf-shiva-swank is broken somehow, probably because i was pressing with not "real" v tooling. actually i need to fix that..
erlehmann: asciilifeform so which build system(s) do you use? any at all?
phf: erlehmann: try it now
phf: also ascii grew up with 2 hour builds anyway..
erlehmann: i also consider building stuff not very interesting. but redo is so simple that it can be implemented in <250 lines of shell script.
erlehmann: whatever, i use rc shell for day to day work. but sh is portable and bash is not.
erlehmann: rc shell grammar is listed on the man page. very small. nice. monkey like.
erlehmann: regarding redo: needing dependencies is not limited to compiling programs. datasets are also something. i build my website with redo. i have managed converted media files with redo. i would not want to wait hours for the re-encoding of each file every time i rebuild a web site.
phf: when you have a hammer
erlehmann: as the saying goes in german: wenn du einen hammer hast, kannst du die ganze welt nageln!
erlehmann: i think the main reason for me implementing and using redo is that the scripts work fine without all the logic. it is just an optimization.
phf: does djb have a working redo implementation or it's just a concept paper?
erlehmann: i suspect he has at least a prototype, but he has never published it. reason: i found dofiles in some stuff about elliptic curves.
erlehmann: i had two interactions with djb regarding that
a111: Logged on 2017-05-31 14:17 asciilifeform: in recent sads, 'Our batch prime-generation algorithm suggests that, to help reduce energy consumption and protect the environment, all users of RSA—including users of traditional pre-quantum RSA—should delegate their key-generation computa- tions to NIST or another trusted third party. This speed improvement would also allow users to generate new RSA keys and erase old RSA keys more frequently, limiting the damage of key theft.'
erlehmann: first: “where is your redo implementation?”, i believe his answer was like “has to be cleaned up before release” or something before i stupidly decided to come back later bcause he was answering crypto questions
erlehmann: second: “i have written a redo implementation, does it work correctly?”, i again lost him. he suggested to meet at a place at a time during the conference and i thought i knew the place but apparently i erred because there was no place with the name i thought he had said.
erlehmann: and by ”massively shitty” i mean apenwarr used sqlite because “filesystem is slow of course”. turns out 300 lines of shell script are faster than more than double that amount of python if you actually benchmark and not talk out of your own ass.
erlehmann: in my opinion, having python and sqlites as dependencies is a massive no-go for a build system.
erlehmann: phf i believe redo is an unpolished gem. sadly, many people implement it ALMOST correctly and then do something stupid
erlehmann: djb also never answered my mail regarding redo
erlehmann: i think it is like fefe said: a) tenure b) does not care
erlehmann: i believed the suggestion to let NIST generate your private key was sarcasm
a111: Logged on 2017-05-31 18:37 asciilifeform: 'Generating large amounts of truly random data is expensive. Fortunately, truly random data can be simulated by pseudorandom data produced by a stream cipher from a much smaller key. (Even better, slight deficiencies in the randomness of the cipher key do not compromise security.) The literature contains several scalable ciphers....' -- djb et al
erlehmann: but then again i was sceptical of weev's aryan awakening at first as well
erlehmann: i have no interest in arguing about djb's merits tbh
erlehmann: i come from imageboard culture, where discussions only devolved into shitting on each other if a person was assuming a name
erlehmann: often not, yes. to understand why URbit is designed in such an idiosyncratic way, i always suggest to read unqualified reservations first.
deedbot: erlehmann voiced for 30 minutes.
erlehmann: however, having a single command in a build script that says “rebuild the target, then rebuild the current target” seems trivial in comparison.
erlehmann: also non-existence dependencies. yeah, i read it at djb's website, but if his implementation does not exist (not published = not existing in practical terms), i don't care about his opinions regarding that.
erlehmann: asciilifeform i have probably done more work on automatically capturing non-existence dependencies in real-world usecases (which seems also trivial, in retrospect) – so is it now my idea? why should i care what the guy says if he does not followup with code?
erlehmann: btw, most problem's do not feel interesting to me and programming is not fun.
erlehmann: programming (to me) is a blue collar job, like taking out the trash.
erlehmann: wait, no, not taking out the trash. whatever it is called when they pick up trash cans.
erlehmann: it seems that it is not for other people.
erlehmann: at least i am not aware of garbagemen having groupies
erlehmann: asciilifeform i think one of the reasons why i thought it was satire was “Make RSA Great Again”
erlehmann: i agree with your assessment of urbit btw
erlehmann: oh, that. well, i would argue the hints in hoon are enough to discount that stuff.
erlehmann: or, for that matter, the silent bugfixing of nock 5k … without adjusting the temperature.
phf: his concept of jets sort of reminds me of lisp VOPs, with similar failure modes. vops originally were supposed to abstract a lisp machine cpu on traditional hardware, so that, say, addition vop adds all the assembler overhead of typechecking etc. in reality it turned into an everything and kitchen sink way of adding arbitrary assembler to the system
☟︎ erlehmann: i am of the impression that any change to nock 5k should have become nock 4k, if goldbug were following his self-proclaimed principles, correct?
phf: for some reason i always thought mr mold was a monarchist
erlehmann: funnily enough, my incomplete nock 5k implementation in sed(1) was a rough transliteration of the nock 5k spec
erlehmann: just to illustrate you can get by with search-and-replace if your spec looks like that
erlehmann: turns out changing the order of reduction rules is a problem in that case
deedbot: erlehmann voiced for 30 minutes.
phf: probably can be done with ascii's version by dropping a format somewhere inside mk-op
erlehmann: but it comes naturally when you are working with sed(1)
erlehmann: the beginning of nock.sed has a label “: reduce” and a single “p” command (“print the current pattern space”)
erlehmann: as far as i can remember, i actually used it for debugging
erlehmann: that being said, back to the topic at hand: intellectual dishonesty
phf: (actually i'm not getting the same result from ascii's version as you do in your evaluator, but i don't want to devote any more time to it)
erlehmann: asciilifeform how long did it take you to discover that urbit was built on sand? less than a year probably, going from the date on the blog post.
erlehmann: asciilifeform why then buy a dukedom?
erlehmann: where he asked people to decrement with only addition
erlehmann: a simple task, really. and one i have used to mock the workings of nock (heh)
erlehmann: phf please do not devote time to debugging. but is the result of nock([57 [4 [0 1]]]) NOT 58?
erlehmann: asciilifeform maybe that is it why it is nock 5K!
phf: no idea, nock(..) doesn't work, so i did a substitution to *[57 [4 [0 1]]] and it gave me 1
erlehmann: asciilifeform my fault. i should have assumed differently.
erlehmann: especially since i had followed the urbit story at that time
phf: it's a pretty standard marketing tactic: give out a bunch of stuff to high profile people, make the rest buy it on the assumption that "such and such bought"
phf: in a degenerate case this is also how scams work "everyone here already bought, what are you waiting for"
erlehmann: on the other hand, i successfully used “see, this guy sold his dukedom in 2013” as argument to convince someone that urbit is of no use
☟︎ erlehmann: oh, but it has not ended yet! i am sure there can be at least one other unlaunch and relaunch
erlehmann: i must admit moldbug is pretty good at creating memetic hazards
erlehmann: my worst urbit moment: after i read some hoon language code i started to understand it. immediately decided to no longer look at the stuff.
erlehmann: like, not the code. but i started to understand hoon digraphs.
erlehmann: and where the impedance mismatches came from.
erlehmann: reaction: when moldbuggery starts making sense, stop looking at it.
erlehmann: asciilifeform how should urbit ever affect bitcoin?
erlehmann: i always thought it piggybacked on bitcoins marketing.
erlehmann: “this is how bitcoin dies” and “we'll make our system so the state can censor everything with ease”
erlehmann: “if the above makes sense to you, do not attempt revolution, sit in your chair and await certain death”
erlehmann: a guy i know told me he put 600€ in ETH and 400€ in BTC. without a concrete plan, of course.
erlehmann: i thought a bit and decided that person would probably eat shit if it promised riches.
deedbot: erlehmann voiced for 30 minutes.
erlehmann: i knew about the patreon page and thought he was just unemployable maybe?
erlehmann: but apparently i do not know my history
erlehmann: rms is pretty charismatic btw. would meet again, even if i can guess i will not learn much.
erlehmann: i sometimes tell that to hipsters.
erlehmann: if you have GNOME 3, you have software on your computer that i wrote as a joke
erlehmann: reason: i wrote a vintage filter for GNOME 3 when i discovered their screenshot app has a postprocessing step. i submitted patch and one person saw it as the garbage it was intended as, but then others were like WHAT A COOL EASTER EGG MERGE.
erlehmann: if i was sufficiently bored, i would do the same to systemd
erlehmann: asciilifeform i also have no gnomes.
erlehmann: judas goat, that is harsh. and to the point.
erlehmann: open source : free software :: “new wave” : punk
erlehmann: make the culture palatable to the businesspeople
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 19:23 mircea_popescu: which i suppose warrants a general warning : DO NOT UPGRADE YOUR GCC TO 5.0! SAVE YOUR COPIES OF 4.X AND PRIOR!
erlehmann: i don't get the hate against optimizing c compilers at all
☟︎ erlehmann: if you don't like undefined behaviour, don't write undefined behaviour
phf: kek "don't write undefined behavior"
☟︎ erlehmann: asciilifeform do you mean you need integer overflow or that it is difficult to check for it?
erlehmann: i see it as a kind of type annotation
erlehmann: allowing the compiler to infer that this does not happen, ever
erlehmann: so i guess whoever hates on undefined behavior hates some kinds of typing
phf: c standard is written with an assumption of a "c machine", which in turn is entirely undefined
☟︎ phf: so you bring all your assumptions of what c machine is with you, and then map a "standard" on top
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 02:46 asciilifeform: the basic idiocy of c world is that there is permitted to exist a gap between written standard and the actual implementation programs rely on
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 02:48 phf: c standard is written with an assumption of a "c machine", which in turn is entirely undefined
erlehmann: asciilifeform how far along are you in implementing sane foundations for sane personal computing?
erlehmann: i assume FUCKGOATS does not help here?
deedbot: erlehmann voiced for 30 minutes.
phf: i have nothing else to add to this conversation, i am though playing "have you heard this eurodance track" game with girl, where i play something that ~everyone~ danced to in the 90s, but didn't survive the test of time and see if she heard it
phf: like masterboy or mr. president or snap!
☟︎ deedbot: erlehmann voiced for 30 minutes.
erlehmann: who is girl and what are the rules of the game?
phf: there are no rules. she doesn't recognize most of the tracks and get indignant because "i love the 90s!1" but of course through the prism of whatever survived into the early 2000s
phf: the result brings me great amusement
erlehmann: i registered with deedbot. so what changes now?
phf: !!rate erlehmann 1 new blood
phf: !!v 26D4E4DB84B37942E130111DD744601EE4E373EFB0AC035843397D2B715AE49A
deedbot: phf rated erlehmann 1 << new blood
phf: erlehmann: now you can /msg deedbot !!up and after decoding a challenge response send it back with /msg deedbot !!v <response> you'll be permanently upped while you're connected to services anyway
erlehmann: does it have other functions useful for me in my current state?
erlehmann: in a channel i administered we had a ὀστρακισμός done by bot
erlehmann: if you pissed of a minority of users, a ban happened
erlehmann: worked until the person hosting the bot killed it
erlehmann: and by “worked” i mean: no one complained that anyone should be kicked out
erlehmann: if you got at least 3 people representing at least 33% of voting populace, exile!
erlehmann: > Ostracism was crucially different from Athenian law at the time; there was no charge, and no defence could be mounted by the person expelled. The two stages of the procedure ran in the reverse order from that used under almost any trial system — here it is as if a jury are first asked "Do you want to find someone guilty?", and subsequently asked "Whom do you wish to accuse?"
phf: well, your current state is that you can talk at will
phf: there's no "democracy", you're in deedbot's level 2 web of trust through my rating. there's a handful of useful people in l1 that can at some point decide that you shouldn't really speak anymore. that's about it. if you ever become useful, you can get into l1. thus the s/r is maintained
phf: !!gettrust erlehmann
deedbot: L1: 1, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
phf: !!gettrust deedbot erlehmann
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 1 by 1 connections.
erlehmann: and L2 is amazon style recommendation?
phf: distance, l1 is whatever's immediately rated, l2 is whatever's rated by your rates. an informal way to establish connectivity
phf: there's a handy visualizer, but i've no idea what frequency it runs at
erlehmann: !!rate deedbot 1 Most likely a bot.
phf: you gotta !!up yourself properly first
phf: actually i'm not sure why that should be the case..
phf: !!up herbijudlestoids
deedbot: herbijudlestoids voiced for 30 minutes.
herbijudlestoids: thought I'd drop in and check on the crazies, I see things have changed dramatically
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: Have you found any new markets where I can take your money?
BingoBoingo: No idea. Haven't played since I sobered up.
herbijudlestoids: I am trying to remember how we played last, it was some kind of texty thing, do you remember the interface for that?
BingoBoingo: Well a lot has happened since then... there's a nearly two and a half year old media empire, etc
herbijudlestoids: I saw something on trilema saying you can write articles for it and entitles you to shares in it?
BingoBoingo: Anyways I'll let you get back to catching up
BingoBoingo: Well, there's quite a few people around but it's Friday night.
herbijudlestoids: for some reason I thought you were from .au but I must be mixing you up with someone else
deedbot: erlehmann voiced for 30 minutes.
erlehmann: BingoBoingo does there exist a gatekeeping mechanism so that qntra does not drown in horsecock as kuro5hin did?
BingoBoingo: erlehmann: Yes, the gatekeeping mechanism is called editor
BingoBoingo: <herbijudlestoids> for some reason I thought you were from .au but I must be mixing you up with someone else << That's cazalla
erlehmann: BingoBoingo all articles on the front page are from you. editor, edit thyself?
erlehmann: i think i can do one short hateful article about cryptoscamming before i sleep
phf: ng on his nick results in 404. likewise when he does !!up or !!rate deedbot claims that he's not registered. this doesn't look like an operator issue
BingoBoingo: <erlehmann> i think i can do one short hateful article about cryptoscamming before i sleep << Must be news.
erlehmann: BingoBoingo ok, it is already on reddit, so not news
trinque: thanks phf; I'll look at it.
BingoBoingo: Is it a specific thing or "cryptpscamming" in general
erlehmann: > The Web3 SHA3 implementation requires the Hex value to be prefixed with 0x - optional until Geth 1.5.6.
erlehmann: > Our code didn't prefix the Hex string with 0x and when we upgraded Geth from 1.5.3 to 1.5.9 on the 24th of May, the SHA3 function call failed and our sweeper process then called the contract with an invalid data payload resulting in the ETH becoming trapped.
erlehmann: translating to a lot of canadian dollares
BingoBoingo: erlehmann: Go for it. I thought you meant some broad "pls to not be scammed" piece.
erlehmann: BingoBoingo ok, where do i submit? or do i publish in my feed and it gets synced?
trinque: s'ok we've got our best people on it
erlehmann: trinque do you do full recognition before processing?
trinque: erlehmann: there are 4 key fingerprints in here; which did you want?
phf: aight, that's my queue
erlehmann: trinque i see, that was the error apparently!
trinque: erlehmann: known derp; should barf if it gets moar than one
trinque: thing broke when you used it incorrectly; what's the security problem
trinque: mk, I'm at some point going to go back to what I was doing.
☟︎ erlehmann: trinque so i just create an ascii armored pubkey export and try again?
BingoBoingo: <erlehmann> “just don't hold it that way” << Generally this is how tools work. Do not hold chainsaw by chain.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-02 23:56 erlehmann: dear diary, yesterday a person on IRC asked me if i am jealous after i referred to ethereum as a scam again. jealous, i asked. yes, she answered, jealous of people who invest in cryptocurrencies!
erlehmann: BingoBoingo sorry no article for you today. am sleepy enough.
deedbot: herbijudlestoids voiced for 30 minutes.
erlehmann: mircea_popescu i even linked the sharpie in pooper incident to convince her of your generosity.
mircea_popescu: erlehmann that dude... recently came up, iirc he got like 10 btc or some crazy old timer shit like that.
herbijudlestoids: good question... been spending a lot of time recently studying SPARK/Ada
herbijudlestoids: I was thinking of applications and had this idea of writing an implementation of bitcoind in SPARK
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: That's another thing you missed
erlehmann: mircea_popescu i think she thinks herself to be too modest. on the other hand, she has repeatedly told me she will not fuck me without me stating sexual interest, which in my experience people only do if they actually do think about fucking.
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids i take it you missed alf's ada numeric lib too ?
herbijudlestoids: so are others already discussing SPARK implementations of stuff here?
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids we pretty much settled on ada as the proper environment for critical code, more or less.
deedbot: mircea_popescu has not rated herbijudlestoids.
a111: Logged on 2014-02-14 00:43 BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: i tried to wipe out your bids with one limit order down to 111 satoshis and it skipped your bids and sold cheap
trinque: erlehmann: I was asking you which fp you wanted to use, as several made it in here. I gather you registered more than one key?
mircea_popescu: !!v A6A6C69E8F0E1285AE4F4FC53F593B07F6AEA2A73DCEE695CC25C022513FBB28
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated herbijudlestoids 1 << missed on all the things.
trinque: erlehmann: teh fingerprint of your key
herbijudlestoids: asciilifeform: I didn't look too deeply, but take a look, it has TLA+ style formal verification properties
trinque will need another beer for this
herbijudlestoids: I am kind of happy to hear that all this time I was gone, and thinking of this shit, you guys were also thinking of this shit
phf: he probably also missed the RATO and the gp, and he wasn't here for the Larasian either
BingoBoingo: Well, everything since valentine's day 2014 it seems
herbijudlestoids: so is anyone going to link me this ada numeric lib by "alf" or not!
herbijudlestoids: I had a lot of fun reading the log today of asciilifeform talking about NIC drivers
erlehmann: trinque i tried again and used --export-options export-minimal
erlehmann: asciilifeform source of liquishit?
BingoBoingo: <erlehmann> asciilifeform source of liquishit? << usually clostridium and diary
herbijudlestoids: asciilifeform: yeah I noticed it is managing this small codebase because it's relying on VT-x and other virt techs also
herbijudlestoids: I just mean small like 8000 LOC or whatever they said, but obviously they are offloading stuff to VT-x
herbijudlestoids: so I guess then it's not just a question of Ada, but also you want a good arch
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: I believe something has been designed around this ...
phf: !#seenbefore herbijudlestoids
a111: 2015-12-07 <herbijudlestoids> hows life, assets!
mircea_popescu: it's probably the case a correct cpu is closer to how they make gpus -- paste a bunch of same cores all over the chip surface and that's that.
mircea_popescu: certainly none of that bullshit multi-layered cache pipeline and "prediction" and "management engines" and etc. destructured rahter than multistructured.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform basuically this crash-safe thing looks like a mostly theoretical xilinx blob
deedbot: erlehmann voiced for 30 minutes.
erlehmann: asciilifeform why don't you make FPGAs? or processors for that matter? starting with home computers?
phf: capability systems demand capability ontology, which in practice is both expensive to develop and impractical to upkeep
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 01:18 asciilifeform: extracting the Stone of Folly ?
mircea_popescu: am personally acquainted with subjects who'd immensely benefit
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 01:50 phf: his concept of jets sort of reminds me of lisp VOPs, with similar failure modes. vops originally were supposed to abstract a lisp machine cpu on traditional hardware, so that, say, addition vop adds all the assembler overhead of typechecking etc. in reality it turned into an everything and kitchen sink way of adding arbitrary assembler to the system
deedbot: herbijudlestoids voiced for 30 minutes.
erlehmann: in the beginning i thought jets would work like a recognizer + cache
erlehmann: so for example the markdown support? just joking, all of this is done by some C lib
herbijudlestoids: in front of all tmsr I admit that I lost my old gpg keypair it seems, thought I had it in my backups but they all seem to have the current one I'm using
mircea_popescu: i dunno what one'd have to have been eating in college to imagine jets as "a-wizard-did-it" handwave solution could possibly work in any practically useful sense.
herbijudlestoids: how does a fool change their pubkey association, phf or anyone? or am I just stuck now
erlehmann: asciilifeform but there is no recognizer. just a rune to tell the hoon interpreter to get fucked
mircea_popescu: sina try you know, your name, like adults / sane people.
erlehmann: asciilifeform maybe moldbug imagined himself steve jobs, who also sometimes lied brazenly.
a111: I haven't seen sina before
deedbot: sina voiced for 30 minutes.
a111: I haven't seen sluts before
erlehmann: oh i thought this might be a channel with sluts
erlehmann: mircea_popescu i once was in a channel where the rule was that new members would only be full members if they are in the local hookup graph
phf: a111 is a scribe, toils at keeping the logs, what do you expect
mircea_popescu: erlehmann the problem with this approach is that females don't actually have much interesting to say as a general rule ; and the ones that do are too busy to be worth much on the hookup front.
erlehmann: mircea_popescu sounds depressingly heterosexual
mircea_popescu: ~only way out is to keep slavegirls, but then a) you won't particularly want to share and b) it'll take a lot of actual work.
erlehmann: well, i know that approach works. slowly, but it works. after a while you have a knot of people who hook up with each other.
sina: mircea_popescu: yeah I use it and it has proper backups
erlehmann: mircea_popescu also i prefer the ones that have interesting stuff to say.
mircea_popescu: !!v 5381E06E7065BB3D549679641D24927613EC3AACF4AECE526CC0DC65AD71360A
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated sina 1 << missed on all the things!
erlehmann: since i learned that sex is cheap i try to only fug with ppl who i would spent a similar amount of time with even if sex was not in the picture. turns out this is a good heuristic to avoid assholes.
erlehmann: problem is, i err too often for my taste
erlehmann: e.g. had a 20 year old tell me recently that she would not meet me that often if she would expect that fucks would not be given
erlehmann: thought a bit about it, have not met her since
erlehmann: asciilifeform as i understand it, “~/ %add” says “use the C implementation here”. fun exercise: remove ~/ digraphs until implementation breaks.
erlehmann: when it breaks, you have proof that hoon cannot compile itself
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 02:12 erlehmann: on the other hand, i successfully used “see, this guy sold his dukedom in 2013” as argument to convince someone that urbit is of no use
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 02:15 asciilifeform: my least nonsensical hypothesis is that thiel funded urbit (yes) to make a half-hearted play at 'embrace&extinguish'ing bitcoin
sina: ok, I have clearly no fucking clue what is going on
sina: gpg -K lists my secret key
sina: when I run gpg --decrypt input from the OTP, it says gpg: decryption failed: secret key not available
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 02:18 asciilifeform: was from the (public) beginning 'we're like bitcoin, but with censorship, so When They Shoot The Bitcoinists, we'll live'
sina: I can export the key it is clearly there wtf is going on
sina: I do, but why isn't it asking me for a pw?
sina: what the fucking fuck is going on
sina: it asks for a pw if I run `gpg --sign`
deedbot: sina voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: <herbijudlestoids> but I will lose my sexysosexy rating from BingoBoingo! << NO, you rated ME that
sina: BingoBoingo: that rating from you was the literal core of my being and now it is crumbling away
sina: I am a mote, floating in a sea of meaningless futility
BingoBoingo: sina I did not rate you that. Read the direction on the rating page. You rated me!
sina: but in my mind, all this time, as I navigated through my day to day life, I have been thinking that you rated me as sexy
sina: and now it turns out wrong
sina: brb going to kill myself
BingoBoingo: Oh, fuck off. Now I'm starting to wonder who the drunk was in 2014
sina: it was you asshole :D
sina: anyway I am also coming to terms with the apparent fact that I can't fucking GPG to save my life
sina: how the fuck can I sign arbitrary files but not decrypt them
mircea_popescu: probably by not signing with the pubkey you're supposed to decrypt with, but a different one.
sina: I can even export the secret key with 'pg --export-secret-keys --armor 7A6DC051'
mod6: what os / version of gpg?
sina: and this is why I thought I didn't have the herbi key backed up because I was getting the same error
sina: fedora 24 gpg 1.4.21
sina: mod6: the key was generated on, I think ubuntu 12 or 14.04 with a version of gpg I can't remember
sina: fuck is this some kind of gpg2 vs gpg1 shit
BingoBoingo: Admit you are powerless over GPG and that your life has become unmanageable
sina: BingoBoingo: yeah I am 100% there
BingoBoingo: 2. Come to believe that a power GPG'er than yourself can restore you to sanity
sina: I can run 'gpg --local-user 7A6DC051 --sign input', it asks me for a password, I copy/paste the pw from my keepassx, it signs the fucking document
BingoBoingo: 3. Surrender your will and life to TMSR as you understand it
sina: I run 'gpg --local-user 7A6DC051 --decrypt input' and I get error saying no secret key
sina: mircea_popescu: I can do a detached signature and verify the sig, yes
sina: mircea_popescu: I know I am pestering, sorry. any chance you can encrypt a doc against my key
sina: and paste it somewhere for me to test
phf: i think you generated a sign only key
sina: BingoBoingo: "save for later" LOL
sina: phf: I used to use this key to identify with assbot all the time :(
phf: doing pgpdump on your pubkey says it's a "Pub alg - DSA Digital Signature Algorithm(pub 17)"
sina: at least, I thought I did and now I think I'm just a piece of crazy shit
phf: where's it supposed to say something more like "Pub alg - RSA Encrypt or Sign(pub 1)"
sina: ok, so facts are, my fucking backup system did in fact fucking work, and the herbi key was in my keyring uncorrupted this whole time
sina: and I registered "sina" against the same key thinking it was a different key
BingoBoingo: So, at 6.5 days since last nicotine, most profound side effect so far is having to learn to drive again because "WTF does left hand do nao?"
sina: gpg: decryption failed: secret key not available
BingoBoingo: So far answer to that question is hand signals to other drivers
sina: BingoBoingo: also nut scratching
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 02:35 asciilifeform: ( and prohibits static linking )
deedbot: test_1 voiced for 30 minutes.
sina: how the fuck is it possible mircea_popescu can encrypt a msg against that key and I can successfully Hurr durr, but the OTP won't?
sina: maybe phf is right and my key is fucked for real operations?
mircea_popescu: i can't see how me encrypting something isn't real ops.
mircea_popescu: trinque can you think of anything weird deedbot might be doing ? total impasse over here.
sina: I am glad it isn't just me
mircea_popescu: sina do the !!v thing in public so i can see wtf it's sending you ?
sina: !!v 7BFEED118C1BD7FA160C7780CA8F764D7A6DC051
mircea_popescu: no the other part. !!rate someone or whatrever so it makes you an otp
sina: !!rate mircea_popescu gentleman and scholar
sina: !!rate mircea_popescu 1 gentleman and scholar
sina: !!v A219F31FDD833D1408844473A0436E8608707B6CC91445D2FF2B1A4FA1356753
deedbot: sina rated mircea_popescu 1 << gentleman and scholar
sina: 2014 was a strange time, why did I make a 3072 bit DSA elg-e key?
mircea_popescu: im not even sure why the fuck deedbot would accept such a thing.
test_1: i tried an dsa/elgamal key, and it seems to be working no problem
sina: I could just up myself
sina: brb going to kill myself
sina: BingoBoingo: got anymore of those funnies
BingoBoingo: sina: Sure, plenty once you catch up on these past 3 years of log
BingoBoingo: Until you demonstrate mastery in content of missed logs, you are forbade from self killing
sina: phf: yall write this deedbot in lisp?
phf: sina: that's trinque's, and yes
mircea_popescu: there's a candy whore in lisp ; deedbot is iirc written in rdbms.
sina: is clojure a dirty word to you?
BingoBoingo: Big bonus of catching up on log is knowing who to blame for which bot
sina: wait you crazy fuckers wrote a bot in sql stored procedures?
sina: mircea_popescu: do you knnow why I am here today? because earlier this week I was telling a friend about this time a crazy Romanian saved OpenBSD with a bitcoin donation
sina: mircea_popescu: something dumb like "what's openbsd"
deedbot: shinohai voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: shinohai: The erlehmann and sina camhos may need coaching on how to submit to qntra
deedbot: simonpenner voiced for 30 minutes.
sina: BingoBoingo: how do you get ownership of shares if you don't have an MPex seat tho
BingoBoingo: Not 3 years long, but still long in internet time
mod6: <+phf> yall need jesus. << haha
BingoBoingo: sina: Well there's brokerage or simple butt storage
sina: I keep most things in my butt
phf: !!seenbefore simonpenner
phf: !#seenbefore simonpenner
a111: 2017-01-29 <simonpenner> oic
shinohai: Coaching requires something to make it worth my while
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 02:41 phf: kek "don't write undefined behavior"
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Well, camhos. Propose consideration you would accept.
sina: shinohai: propose transfer you my payment for first submission to qntra
shinohai recalls the time (I think it was BingoBoingo and TradeFortress) made Candi's husband put sharpie in pooper ....
shinohai: sina what exactly do you need assistance with ?
sina: I dunno, lets say I wrote an article "#breaking, #headline, BingoBoingo sucks 200 dicks ..."
mircea_popescu: encrypt it to his key put it in wotpaste and link it to him
sina: altho I feel like I remember BingoBoingo saying you just .asc that sucker and ! tell
shinohai: You write said submission, `aspell -c submission`, then clearsign the result with your gpg key.
shinohai: Then, encrypt to BingoBoingo 's public key
BingoBoingo: <shinohai> You write said submission, `aspell -c submission`, then clearsign the result with your gpg key. << You forgot "Proofread for its vs. it's, because aspell doesn't know"
shinohai: Spell check is actually kind of worthless as exists now if you speak more than a single language ....
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 03:07 phf: like masterboy or mr. president or snap!
sina: its sat afternoon here so I am gonna go do some weekend stuff
sina: me love you long time
sina: rly good to see your chars streaming across my term once again
BingoBoingo: Keep coming back. It works when you work it!
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 03:59 herbijudlestoids: you sobered up?
shinohai: Where did we get camhos from BingoBoingo .... I'm on mobile so missing the log
shinohai always has eye for fresh talent.
mircea_popescu: in other wolisome, 6am log is like 1k lines god help us.
BingoBoingo: Is this new testament god or still newer testament god?
shinohai kicked girl out of house when she said "Why do you read that boring log every day, can't you just facebook like the rest of us"
shinohai: Current companion is a bit more housebroken.
shinohai: Yup. She can piss on the AJC on cue.
shinohai: Yeah, not worth the paper printed on.
mircea_popescu: amusingly, it occurs to me 0.02 btc actually comes to a whopping ~50 bucks again!
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2477.43, vol: 12685.98640740 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2391.605, vol: 5057.38829 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2377.7, vol: 12804.97505964 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2542.046932, vol: 20766.02830000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2483.955, vol: 6675.9205161 | Volume-weighted last average: 2471.81366243
shinohai: Must be why indiancandy texted me today and asked if I was a btcillionare yet.
mircea_popescu: lel. should prolly do a new run of wherever whores cuntgregate.
shinohai: I'm trying to come up with new ideas. twitter is simply full of fat chicks, etc that pay me to tweet their bullshit until they realize no one fucking cares anyway.
shinohai: I forgot I did meet another semi-hot Colombian chick a fortnight ago that I wanted to !~tits
shinohai: I may be wrong, but I think the future of this whole camho thing is making some sort of business model that is like, say Qntra, where the ladies get shares based on content.
mircea_popescu: basically the fundamental problem is that precious cuntlets want their precious cuntlet to be worth money through it not being used ; whereas the only way it could ever be worth anything would be through intensive usage.
mircea_popescu: traditional porn / society beats this stupid out of whores physically, but there's no substitute for online.
mircea_popescu: "you know that pamela andersen, that's been like on every single mag cover and took everyone up the ass ? well, i'm just like her, except i live in a closet and never did anything like that!" "yeah, i can totally see the resemblance".
shinohai: Sounds like indiancandy. "I totally do cam work but GOD FORBID I stick ANYTHING in my vagina."
deedbot: erlehmann voiced for 30 minutes.
erlehmann: either extreme lag or me misunderstanding how deedbot works
erlehmann: that is correct behaviour, i presume?
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
erlehmann: that is incorrect behaviour, i presume?
erlehmann: i have no idea. before i went to sleep it was telling me i need to register, when i was doing !!up – even though i had already.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 04:19 trinque: mk, I'm at some point going to go back to what I was doing.
mircea_popescu: basically you registered multiple keys, confirmed none, timedout the dood trying to help you.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 04:26 erlehmann: trinque 0x6468DB63F020E509 i guess
erlehmann: seems i need to learn more about deedbot and then try again instead of wasting others time
mircea_popescu: erlehmann do a final !!register <url> with the actual pubkey of the key you want to use, no backsies, in here so it gets recorded and hopefully gets done today.
deedbot: 58FD21A3F5C47E7AB50496176468DB63F020E509
erlehmann: that looks exactly like the fingerprint of the key i wish to use
BingoBoingo: From the cancerous faggot department: "Maher seemed encouraged by the answer and said that he should “get to Nebraska more.” Sasse then replied that the comedian was welcome to go: “We’d love to have you work in the fields with us.” Maher seemed surprised by Sasse’s invitation and then jokingly replied, “Work in the fields? Senator, I’m a house nigger.”"
BingoBoingo: The cancerous faggot and the Senator both have some aggro incoming, but Senator is drawing the brunt of it for not "seeing something, saying something"
mircea_popescu: what was he supposed to say, "dun lie to me bitch, i know a field nigger when i see one" ?
BingoBoingo: Seriously "Your name is Toby, you will be whipped until you acknowledge your name is toby and you work the field"
mircea_popescu: "The bill introduced in [Omaha City] Council, for the abolition of slavery in this Territory, was called up yesterday, and its further consideration postponed for two weeks. A strong effort will be made among the Republicans to secure its passage; we think, however, it will fail. The farce certainly cannot be enacted if the Democrats do their duty." << 1859.
BingoBoingo: It was a short one. As much as Nebraska barely exists now, it's existence was more barely in the time leading up to Herr Lincoln's war of aggression
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2542.74, vol: 10766.22137381 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2449.0, vol: 5149.89939 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2436.9, vol: 12141.9770871 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2580.742532, vol: 19784.16060000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2548.0, vol: 5382.42247766 | Volume-weighted last average: 2524.18284441
mircea_popescu: and in other unexpected developments : the eu reacted to trump backing out5 of paris accord by pretending the us is not run by washington, and will just work directly to "business leaders" and state governors instead.
BingoBoingo: This is an actual violation of the Logan Act of 1799
mircea_popescu: yet somehow i suspect trump\s still not found his male pants.
BingoBoingo: Well, this is why Gov shutdown was scheduled for this coming fall and not this past spring. Shitgnomes need time to crawl out of toilet and sign own indictments
BingoBoingo: In other news, vegetarian hippies oppose beef ban in India because, "muh muslims!
trinque: !!rate erlehmann 1 new blood
trinque: !!v 92F669C6BA2DBE01149020CED1E7E057E1E298E4C7357D036A291D426366D482
deedbot: trinque rated erlehmann 1 << new blood
mircea_popescu: !!v 99BCC6E96A78895E2C6CF7477852D9ADA708A3C370D39A2AF13D349DED846AC1
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated erlehmann 1 << new blood
trinque: !!gettrust deedbot erlehmann
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 2 by 2 connections.
mircea_popescu: shinohai one funny aspect is that apparently dorks imagine "i'm trying to" as some sort of blank card, dun need to make any sort of effort to explain meaningfully what you're doing. "i'm trying to", good enough.
shinohai: Just like he "tried to" verify those signed messages from Hoaxtoshi?
mircea_popescu: he tried and therefore nobody should piss in his drooly mouth.
erlehmann: > Users of the Random Sanity Project can take those random numbers – from 16 to 64 bytes – and input them into the service, which will return a 'true' if the bytes look random, or a 'false' if the numbers don't.
erlehmann: that seems like the more hilarious part of it
erlehmann: 1. put “rest” in URL. 2. ??? 3. RESTful service achieved
erlehmann: … and on the second invocation it returns false. seems like a classic GET with side effects.
erlehmann: asciilifeform i see the genius of the naming now, sane people can respond to such things with “i'd rather FUCKGOATS” and be right 100% of the time
BingoBoingo thought FUCKGOATS was a natural path to other product names like PASHTUN and BLANKET and HAYBARN
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: FUCKPIGS has different herding harness when clustered, APPALACIAN
BingoBoingo: And the extreme environment hardened variant FUCKSHEEP is herded by SCOTSMAN
BingoBoingo: Well the waterbag around butt attenuates rf signals coming through the air