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phf nods
phf: i saw that was posted in 2014, and i was mostly curious if you stuck with it. i used arensito for almost 4 years, but once i started doing corporate work, particularly management work, it became somewhat impractical.
erlehmann: why?
erlehmann: two exes of mine learned neo2 immediately after i explained the concept. one of them was often frustrated because her work computer was running windows and apparently windows + keyboard layout = shitcock
asciilifeform: even if you don't winblowz, remapping keyboards only works well in hardware imho
erlehmann: same for OS X, apparently. my boss told me he tried to use it there and it was a pain due to something i cannot remember.
erlehmann: asciilifeform due to mod keys or what?
asciilifeform: ( sooner or later you will boot into something -- hell, even if only bios setup or rescue disk -- or an ancient lappy on kvm, etc -- that doesn't know about your magic layout )
erlehmann: yeah, so?
erlehmann: i can do qwertz still. on my work laptop i have not even changed the keycaps.
asciilifeform: so then you don't have your layout. ~unless~ you did it in hardware.
phf: well, that was a while ago (i switched back almost a decade ago), but even now more so now i spend a lot of time, working on other people's machines (i.e. developers that are stuck or need help or whatever)
asciilifeform: having to ever go back and forth -- is what nukes the whole 'custom keyboard' thing for many folx (incl. asciilifeform)
phf: yeah, likewise the whole back and forth killed it for me.
erlehmann: asciilifeform i guess you cannot control your computing experience? the answer from the boss of my boss to “can i install linux on the macbook to get a sane keyboard layout” was “got it, you get a thinkpad”
asciilifeform: erlehmann: funnily enough -- today -- i can
asciilifeform: but no longer type enough to make keyboard fiddling worthwhile thing
asciilifeform: most of my time is spent thinking, not pressing keys as-fast-as-possible
erlehmann: well, in my experience it takes max. three weeks to learn a layout.
erlehmann: chatting is something where i prefer to prevent my hands hurting
erlehmann: i suspect the effect is not as notable for other people as for me, but qwertz hurts, neo2 does not.
erlehmann: (after long chats)
erlehmann: i think it is unlikely that a non-self-built keyboard can do most things relevant to daily usage in hardware. especially layers, mod keys and compose.
phf: ascii's approach was to put custom firmware into an old keyboard, so that's half way there
asciilifeform: mno
asciilifeform: had to desolder internals and put in new controller
asciilifeform: ( open source, and author sells the pcb, so you don't have to necessarily make the pcb by hand )
erlehmann: asciilifeform what is your opinion of FPGAs in general? shit because complexity? nice because reprogrammable?
asciilifeform: !#s fpga
a111: 791 results for "fpga", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=fpga
asciilifeform: !#s xilinx
a111: 131 results for "xilinx", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=xilinx
erlehmann: “there exists an answer” mathematician-face.jpg
asciilifeform: erlehmann: i manufacture and sell a product ( http://nosuchlabs.com/hardware.html ) with a xilinx cpld in it
erlehmann: for some reason i thought of asciilifeform when i learned about the MNT VA2000 amiga graphics card
asciilifeform: but on the other hand it is a very small cpld, and runs a pretty simple state machine, whose honest function is verifiable by the operator with reasonable effort
asciilifeform: i'd still like to replace it with a civilized fpga for which you don't need a 20GB closed source shitware toolchain
asciilifeform: problem is, THEY DON'T EXIST
erlehmann: market reasons?
asciilifeform: you really gotta read the logs, erlehmann
erlehmann: shit toolchains are endemic in lots of fields it seems
asciilifeform: we've had this particular thread at least 7 times
erlehmann: asciilifeform acknowledged. sorry.
asciilifeform: the history doesn't change.
asciilifeform: erlehmann: start http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-17#1165927 , or http://btcbase.org/log/2014-12-11#950467 , or http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551513 ... ☝︎☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-06-17 13:17 asciilifeform: you can pick up a textbook and write a dram controller for fpga from first principles - and it won't work. because, for starters, only a small number of output cells in the chip can function on both rising and falling edge of clock cycle (what 'ddr' means) and only xilinx's closed turd knows where they are in the routing fabric;
a111: Logged on 2014-12-11 01:52 asciilifeform: decimation: notice that all known fpga manufacturers (xilinx, altera, lattice, a few others) have the same business model
a111: Logged on 2016-10-03 13:35 asciilifeform: mepian: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551507 << please read the xilinx threads .
erlehmann: i once met rms at a conference and asked him about viability of free hardware. his answer was along the lines of 1. apparently non-free hardware has worked for decades 2. whoever makes your board can still subvert your trustworthy design, you can't check that 3. maybe if we have star-trek-style replicators one day, hahaha
asciilifeform: latest twist was that some d00dz ~partially~ reversed lattice's toolchain. but their shit ~doesn't work, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-16#1604097 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-16 23:36 asciilifeform: leaving entirely aside the question of whether ice40 can in fact be made to do anything useful with the 'open' toolchain discussed earlier, or whether a toolchain that required clang, llvm, and ten other poetteringesque abortions is 'open'
asciilifeform: erlehmann: didja ask him what specifically it would mean to 'subvert' an fpga ahead of time (i.e. when you have no idea what will be loaded into it, and into what cells in particular ) ?
erlehmann: as far as i can remember, we did not talk about fpga. his example was some company creating your board and not you.
erlehmann: thus the remark with the star trek replicators, which he likened to compilers. just do it yourself.
erlehmann: one could probably extend david wheeler's diverse double compiling to any type of tool if sufficiently paranoid
erlehmann: asciilifeform if you are interested, i suggest to email rms yourself. he answers.
asciilifeform: not when i wrote !
erlehmann: last time i wrote him it was because of this https://stallman.org/netflix.html
erlehmann: > A friend once asked me to watch a video with her that she was going to display on her computer using Netflix. I declined, saying that Netflix was such a threat to freedom that I felt uncomfortable with promoting its use in this way.
asciilifeform: !!up erlehmann
deedbot: erlehmann voiced for 30 minutes.
erlehmann: and rms was like “no, it was not flirting, i am very sure”
erlehmann: as a free-software enthusiast myself, i have managed to experience many invitations to “netflix and chill” entirely without netflix. freedoms preserved!
erlehmann: asciilifeform i like your project names
erlehmann: sufficiently off-putting for hipsters
erlehmann: phf your patch visualizer linked here http://cascadianhacker.com/07_v-tronics-101-a-gentle-introduction-to-the-most-serene-republic-of-bitcoins-cryptographically-backed-version-control-system is apparently gone
erlehmann: phf link shows http://btcbase.org/patches/ which redirects to http://btcbase.org/patches/NIL
erlehmann: phf does it still exist? if so, where?
phf: http://btcbase.org/patches
phf: (busy irl one sec)
erlehmann: ah funny, it does not work with a slash at the end
erlehmann: phf what does the arrow at the right mean? http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=bot&search=&action=update
erlehmann: apparently it does not come from anywhere in this graphic
shinohai: Perhaps /patches is static page ?
phf: i actually patched it in the offline, but haven't had a chance to update the deployment
erlehmann: also, makefiles. fail.
phf: erlehmann: so the arrow from nowhere basically means that the patch is broken, because it requires an antecedent that's missing
erlehmann: phf that makes … too much sense. thanks.
phf: this one specifically http://btcbase.org/hash/95A0046C0AF25E21DBA310217A289D7649DD86CB89709A89931BFE318A41022FFD4BA9DC046E04DAC1B32BC5304239866BF5CA9AD59328B7DA79B1D06437E273
erlehmann: asciilifeform do you have an opinion on DJB redo? or maybe even a simpler design? i would only trust my own implementation and MAYBE the one from jonathan de boyne pollard (although he requires a C++ compiler as a dependency, lol) ☟︎
phf: there's a handful of those, for example in the experimental there's three patches from polarbeard, a guy who joined as we were regriding a bunch of shit, so he had to update his patches a bunch of times and then gave up. nobody cared to reintegrate his patches properly yet
phf: also my own phf-shiva-swank is broken somehow, probably because i was pressing with not "real" v tooling. actually i need to fix that.. ☟︎
erlehmann: unreal tooling?
phf: imaginary tooling
erlehmann: v looks like a nice approach as far as i can see (and is the reason i chose to join #trilema), but as i commented, i suspect there exist parser differentials
erlehmann: if i ever get around to making my own v toolchain (probably in bourne shell, for portability and clarity), i'll address that of course.
phf: for sure, btcbase is probably the most aggressive, because there's a very restricted state machine for parsing, but there's still some ambiguity in recognition that's an artifact of diff/patch being dodgy
phf: (fwiw it has complete understanding of patch, so it can also do a press in memory, e.g. http://btcbase.org/patches/funken_prikey_tools/tree/)
erlehmann: well, vdiff would never be possible if diff and patch were definite about their inputs
erlehmann: what does “in memory” mean?
phf: it does an equivalent of patch, but without calling out to c programs and without the result (or intermediate steps) touching the file system at any point
phf: so hitting http://btcbase.org/patches/funken_prikey_tools/tree/bitcoin/src/init.h runs patch algorithm on a series of vdiffs
phf: well that was a bad example because the file is all genesis
phf: http://btcbase.org/patches/funken_prikey_tools/tree/bitcoin/src/net.h
erlehmann: that looks weird here
phf: screenshot?
erlehmann: phf http://i.imgur.com/UuhywZT.png
erlehmann: tables are hard, let's go shopping?
phf: hmm, k. i haven't paid much attention to that styling, because i don't think anyone's using it, including myself. the press part definitely needs more ux work
erlehmann: phf the reasons seems to be that every single line on the right side is wrapped in <pre> and <span>
phf: so the way it should really be solved is that i need to better understand colorizing code (which i lifted from elsewhere) so that i can wrap the whole thing in pre and just format it without tables by doing <blame ...> <lineno ...> <line>
phf: but that makes copy pasting harder (you can't just select a chunk, because it now includes line numbers and blame)
erlehmann: phf fix is easy
phf: like?
phf: (fwiw this table based approach also looks shitty in lynx)
erlehmann: phf add following CSS to stylesheet: pre { margin-bottom: 0; }
asciilifeform: !!up erlehmann
deedbot: erlehmann voiced for 30 minutes.
erlehmann: phf i hope this change flies without a vpatch, should be evident it is not malicious
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-03#1664877 <<< >>> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-31#1663662 ☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 00:35 erlehmann: asciilifeform do you have an opinion on DJB redo? or maybe even a simpler design? i would only trust my own implementation and MAYBE the one from jonathan de boyne pollard (although he requires a C++ compiler as a dependency, lol)
a111: Logged on 2017-05-31 14:12 mircea_popescu: i suspect the idea is that systems which require something like make are broken anyway.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-03#1664879 << v is -- properly considered -- an abstract concept, quite divorceable from the abominations of gnudiff/patch and gpg ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 00:36 phf: also my own phf-shiva-swank is broken somehow, probably because i was pressing with not "real" v tooling. actually i need to fix that..
erlehmann: asciilifeform so which build system(s) do you use? any at all?
asciilifeform: traditional make
asciilifeform: lately -- gprbuild
phf: erlehmann: try it now
asciilifeform: i gotta admit : i don't consider the problem to be a very interesting one
erlehmann: phf looks better
asciilifeform: and am quite happy to have entire build process repeat every single time the button is pushed
asciilifeform: if it means simplicity+reliability
asciilifeform: trick is : i don't believe in large programs.
phf: also ascii grew up with 2 hour builds anyway..
asciilifeform: if your program is large, and build time is a bottleneck : Your Program Is Wrong
asciilifeform: the one possible exception might be ~massive~ fpga floor layouts
asciilifeform: but i do not often deal in those.
asciilifeform: and make systems do NOTHING to help there anyway
asciilifeform: because the thing is monolithic
erlehmann: i also consider building stuff not very interesting. but redo is so simple that it can be implemented in <250 lines of shell script.
asciilifeform: i dun think i've ever written anything where the ~naked~ build -- no 'intelligence' -- would be >250 ln of bash
erlehmann: not bash
erlehmann: bourne shell
erlehmann: i consider bash an abomination
shinohai: D:
asciilifeform: i consider system lacking tab-completion to be unusable
erlehmann: relevant how?
asciilifeform: well, naked 'sh'
erlehmann: rlwrap sh then
asciilifeform: not same
asciilifeform: wants explicit word lists etc
erlehmann: whatever, i use rc shell for day to day work. but sh is portable and bash is not.
erlehmann: rc shell grammar is listed on the man page. very small. nice. monkey like.
asciilifeform: i'll use a tabcompleteless shell after i start shitting in holes in the ground.
asciilifeform: and wearing bear skin.
erlehmann: regarding redo: needing dependencies is not limited to compiling programs. datasets are also something. i build my website with redo. i have managed converted media files with redo. i would not want to wait hours for the re-encoding of each file every time i rebuild a web site.
asciilifeform: sounds potentially handy.
phf: when you have a hammer
erlehmann: as the saying goes in german: wenn du einen hammer hast, kannst du die ganze welt nageln!
erlehmann: i think the main reason for me implementing and using redo is that the scripts work fine without all the logic. it is just an optimization.
phf: does djb have a working redo implementation or it's just a concept paper?
erlehmann: i suspect he has at least a prototype, but he has never published it. reason: i found dofiles in some stuff about elliptic curves.
erlehmann: i had two interactions with djb regarding that
asciilifeform: speaking of which : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-31#1663689 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-31 14:17 asciilifeform: in recent sads, 'Our batch prime-generation algorithm suggests that, to help reduce energy consumption and protect the environment, all users of RSA—including users of traditional pre-quantum RSA—should delegate their key-generation computa- tions to NIST or another trusted third party. This speed improvement would also allow users to generate new RSA keys and erase old RSA keys more frequently, limiting the damage of key theft.'
erlehmann: first: “where is your redo implementation?”, i believe his answer was like “has to be cleaned up before release” or something before i stupidly decided to come back later bcause he was answering crypto questions
erlehmann: second: “i have written a redo implementation, does it work correctly?”, i again lost him. he suggested to meet at a place at a time during the conference and i thought i knew the place but apparently i erred because there was no place with the name i thought he had said.
erlehmann: phf if you want to learn about redo, i suggest to: 1. read djb's notes. 2. read http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/bin/redo-sh.html and my man page 3. avoid apenwarr's unmaintained implementation (it is the only one that got some popularity, but massively shitty)
erlehmann: and by ”massively shitty” i mean apenwarr used sqlite because “filesystem is slow of course”. turns out 300 lines of shell script are faster than more than double that amount of python if you actually benchmark and not talk out of your own ass.
erlehmann: in my opinion, having python and sqlites as dependencies is a massive no-go for a build system.
erlehmann: maximum bloat
erlehmann: phf i believe redo is an unpolished gem. sadly, many people implement it ALMOST correctly and then do something stupid
erlehmann: asciilifeform for a website case, see some output of redo-dot(1) http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/pics/graphs/redo/bin-dependencies.png
erlehmann: it is a rendering of dependencies behind http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/bin/
asciilifeform: erlehmann: i have nfi what to make of djb at this point. phuctor is the world's largest public showcase of his 'smooth parts of integers' algo, but he refused -- repeatedly -- to answer main re same. and now he's signed his name to a paper full of howlers, e.g. 'let usg nist generate your private key'
asciilifeform: *answer mail re
erlehmann: djb also never answered my mail regarding redo
erlehmann: but he seems responsive in person
erlehmann: i think it is like fefe said: a) tenure b) does not care
erlehmann: i believed the suggestion to let NIST generate your private key was sarcasm
asciilifeform: erlehmann: how about http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-31#1663987 ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-31 18:37 asciilifeform: 'Generating large amounts of truly random data is expensive. Fortunately, truly random data can be simulated by pseudorandom data produced by a stream cipher from a much smaller key. (Even better, slight deficiencies in the randomness of the cipher key do not compromise security.) The literature contains several scalable ciphers....' -- djb et al
asciilifeform: also joke ?
erlehmann: but then again i was sceptical of weev's aryan awakening at first as well
asciilifeform: he wrote ~entire paper~ on subj
asciilifeform: advocating the ~expanded~ use of prngs.
asciilifeform: can you picture a renowned surgeon suddenly advocating bloodletting ?
asciilifeform: the taking of antimony pill ?
asciilifeform: extracting the Stone of Folly ? ☟︎
erlehmann: bloodletting, yes. there are rare diseases where it can work: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemochromatosis
erlehmann: i have no interest in arguing about djb's merits tbh
erlehmann: just redo
erlehmann: i come from imageboard culture, where discussions only devolved into shitting on each other if a person was assuming a name
asciilifeform: we don't do 'ideas have own merits'.
asciilifeform: idea is not separable from the originator.
asciilifeform: the notion that it is separable, is a historic mistake.
erlehmann: often not, yes. to understand why URbit is designed in such an idiosyncratic way, i always suggest to read unqualified reservations first.
phf: !!up erlehmann
deedbot: erlehmann voiced for 30 minutes.
erlehmann: however, having a single command in a build script that says “rebuild the target, then rebuild the current target” seems trivial in comparison.
erlehmann: also non-existence dependencies. yeah, i read it at djb's website, but if his implementation does not exist (not published = not existing in practical terms), i don't care about his opinions regarding that.
asciilifeform: erlehmann: i followed the man's mathematical work ( and made extensive use of it ) which is why i found it disheartening to watch his intellectual honesty evaporate and the quality of said work, falling through the floor. but his solution to ~nonproblem does not pique my interest, i admit
erlehmann: asciilifeform i have probably done more work on automatically capturing non-existence dependencies in real-world usecases (which seems also trivial, in retrospect) – so is it now my idea? why should i care what the guy says if he does not followup with code?
erlehmann: btw, most problem's do not feel interesting to me and programming is not fun.
erlehmann: programming (to me) is a blue collar job, like taking out the trash.
erlehmann: wait, no, not taking out the trash. whatever it is called when they pick up trash cans.
erlehmann: sorry, am sleepy
erlehmann: it seems that it is not for other people.
erlehmann: at least i am not aware of garbagemen having groupies
erlehmann: asciilifeform i think one of the reasons why i thought it was satire was “Make RSA Great Again”
asciilifeform: erlehmann: funny also that you mention urbit: see thread, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524741 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 19:00 asciilifeform: 1 - http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1352 << the sale
erlehmann: i know that
erlehmann: i agree with your assessment of urbit btw
erlehmann: broken foundations
asciilifeform: i bring it up because it was another d00d who advocated 1 set of principles : and implemented a very other in code
asciilifeform: ( mr. mold advocated for 'patchwork states', which were -- best as anyone could tell -- a miraculous resurrection of 16th c. italian provinces, somehow balanced in mutual non-nukeability . but in 'urbit' he implemented a reich, with central control and total dependence on the 'palace' )
erlehmann: oh, that. well, i would argue the hints in hoon are enough to discount that stuff.
erlehmann: or, for that matter, the silent bugfixing of nock 5k … without adjusting the temperature.
phf: his concept of jets sort of reminds me of lisp VOPs, with similar failure modes. vops originally were supposed to abstract a lisp machine cpu on traditional hardware, so that, say, addition vop adds all the assembler overhead of typechecking etc. in reality it turned into an everything and kitchen sink way of adding arbitrary assembler to the system ☟︎
asciilifeform: it is more difficult to count the places where he did ~not~ commit an atrocity, than the atrocities.
erlehmann: i am of the impression that any change to nock 5k should have become nock 4k, if goldbug were following his self-proclaimed principles, correct?
phf: for some reason i always thought mr mold was a monarchist
asciilifeform: he was a 'multi', if you will, monarchist
erlehmann: https://github.com/urbit/urbit/issues/14
asciilifeform: 'let's have many small monarchies'
erlehmann: funnily enough, my incomplete nock 5k implementation in sed(1) was a rough transliteration of the nock 5k spec
erlehmann: just to illustrate you can get by with search-and-replace if your spec looks like that
asciilifeform: erlehmann: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=103 << mine
erlehmann: turns out changing the order of reduction rules is a problem in that case
asciilifeform: it not only worked, but -- afaik -- remains the only 'optimizing' compiler of nock to x86
asciilifeform: ( free ride on top of sbcl ! )
asciilifeform: of course 'nock' is merely s-k calculus with 'serial number sawed off'
erlehmann: http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/bin/nock.sed
asciilifeform: gotta luvv how d00d took the credit for s-k calculus
asciilifeform: !!up erlehmann
deedbot: erlehmann voiced for 30 minutes.
erlehmann: asciilifeform my implementation has the questionable benefit of seeing each step of the reduction rules being applied. screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/qh3zvSv.png
phf: probably can be done with ascii's version by dropping a format somewhere inside mk-op
erlehmann: probably
erlehmann: but it comes naturally when you are working with sed(1)
erlehmann: the beginning of nock.sed has a label “: reduce” and a single “p” command (“print the current pattern space”)
erlehmann: as far as i can remember, i actually used it for debugging
erlehmann: that being said, back to the topic at hand: intellectual dishonesty
phf: (actually i'm not getting the same result from ascii's version as you do in your evaluator, but i don't want to devote any more time to it)
erlehmann: asciilifeform how long did it take you to discover that urbit was built on sand? less than a year probably, going from the date on the blog post.
asciilifeform: erlehmann: before release
asciilifeform: ( i found his repo prior to any public mention thereof )
erlehmann: asciilifeform why then buy a dukedom?
asciilifeform: i didn't !
asciilifeform: he gave it to me
erlehmann: ah, for decrement
erlehmann: right?
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: it was why i wrote the nocktron
erlehmann: i remember that blog post i think
erlehmann: where he asked people to decrement with only addition
erlehmann: a simple task, really. and one i have used to mock the workings of nock (heh)
asciilifeform: was elementary once you realize it's a ripoff of s-k
erlehmann: phf please do not devote time to debugging. but is the result of nock([57 [4 [0 1]]]) NOT 58?
erlehmann: asciilifeform maybe that is it why it is nock 5K!
erlehmann: “5K” looks like “SK”
asciilifeform: lel
erlehmann: in 133t
erlehmann: :D
asciilifeform: pretty lulzy , erlehmann is not the first to assume that asciilifeform bought something from urbit
asciilifeform: in actuality the 'dukedoms' were handed out like candy,
phf: no idea, nock(..) doesn't work, so i did a substitution to *[57 [4 [0 1]]] and it gave me 1
asciilifeform: iirc no fewer than 27, right off the bat
asciilifeform: then a bunch more, for 'sponsors'
asciilifeform: and 'investors' etc.
erlehmann: asciilifeform my fault. i should have assumed differently.
erlehmann: especially since i had followed the urbit story at that time
erlehmann: and then lost interest quickly
asciilifeform: iirc today he is selling 1/256th of'em
asciilifeform: for 500usd ea.
asciilifeform: but i have nfi who -- if anyone -- buys
phf: it's a pretty standard marketing tactic: give out a bunch of stuff to high profile people, make the rest buy it on the assumption that "such and such bought"
asciilifeform: phf: possibly this ; or possibly the cockroaches in his head decided , entirely arbitrarily, to do it, for no discernible logic at all
phf: in a degenerate case this is also how scams work "everyone here already bought, what are you waiting for"
asciilifeform: but it ended up as a fairly standard 'altcoin scam', yes
erlehmann: on the other hand, i successfully used “see, this guy sold his dukedom in 2013” as argument to convince someone that urbit is of no use ☟︎
erlehmann: oh, but it has not ended yet! i am sure there can be at least one other unlaunch and relaunch
erlehmann: i must admit moldbug is pretty good at creating memetic hazards
asciilifeform: like many other american hucksters ( e.g. joseph smith ..) he is mainly good at scavenging & repackaging old crackpotteries
asciilifeform: with 'new flavour'
asciilifeform: old wine; new bottle.
erlehmann: my worst urbit moment: after i read some hoon language code i started to understand it. immediately decided to no longer look at the stuff.
erlehmann: like, not the code. but i started to understand hoon digraphs.
asciilifeform: my least nonsensical hypothesis is that thiel funded urbit (yes) to make a half-hearted play at 'embrace&extinguish'ing bitcoin ☟︎
erlehmann: and what it should do.
erlehmann: and where the impedance mismatches came from.
erlehmann: reaction: when moldbuggery starts making sense, stop looking at it.
erlehmann: asciilifeform how should urbit ever affect bitcoin?
asciilifeform: idea was, by replacing
asciilifeform: with a centrally-controlled pseudobitcoin
asciilifeform: just like today's , e.g., 'ethereum' etc.
erlehmann: i always thought it piggybacked on bitcoins marketing.
asciilifeform: nope.
asciilifeform: was from the (public) beginning 'we're like bitcoin, but with censorship, so When They Shoot The Bitcoinists, we'll live' ☟︎
erlehmann: ah yes
erlehmann: “this is how bitcoin dies” and “we'll make our system so the state can censor everything with ease”
erlehmann: “if the above makes sense to you, do not attempt revolution, sit in your chair and await certain death”
erlehmann: classic moldbug
asciilifeform: d00d consistently advocated 'sit in your chair, resistance is futile'
asciilifeform: why he even bothered to write -- remained a mystery to me
erlehmann: for some people it brings ease
asciilifeform: that kind of 'ease' is why we have locking doors in shithouses
asciilifeform: best done in private.
asciilifeform: whereas shitting in public, is frowned upon by civilized folx.
erlehmann: in the end he got paid for that
asciilifeform: 30 pieces of silver!111
asciilifeform: esr , recall , also was 'well-paid' quisling,
erlehmann: a guy i know told me he put 600€ in ETH and 400€ in BTC. without a concrete plan, of course.
asciilifeform: !#s surprised by wealth
a111: 11 results for "surprised by wealth", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=surprised%20by%20wealth
asciilifeform: today esr begs for spare change.
erlehmann: i thought a bit and decided that person would probably eat shit if it promised riches.
asciilifeform: in the end such folx invariably eatshit for free.
asciilifeform: and enough of it -- to pop.
asciilifeform: because a shit-eater -- rich, or poor -- is still a shit-eater.
asciilifeform: !!up erlehmann
deedbot: erlehmann voiced for 30 minutes.
erlehmann: i knew about the patreon page and thought he was just unemployable maybe?
asciilifeform: ever meet him in meatspace ?
erlehmann: but apparently i do not know my history
erlehmann: nope. should i?
asciilifeform: i've seen him speak in public
erlehmann: like, for the experience?
asciilifeform: he prefaces always with 20+min of 'if you have a computer, you have relied on Things That I Wrote' etc various nonsense re own mega-significance
erlehmann: rms is pretty charismatic btw. would meet again, even if i can guess i will not learn much.
erlehmann: i sometimes tell that to hipsters.
erlehmann: if you have GNOME 3, you have software on your computer that i wrote as a joke
asciilifeform: wouldya believe i have 0 gnomes here.
asciilifeform: of any ver.
erlehmann: reason: i wrote a vintage filter for GNOME 3 when i discovered their screenshot app has a postprocessing step. i submitted patch and one person saw it as the garbage it was intended as, but then others were like WHAT A COOL EASTER EGG MERGE.
erlehmann: if i was sufficiently bored, i would do the same to systemd
asciilifeform: point re esr, is that he agreed to work as an ideological judas goat to counter rms
erlehmann: asciilifeform i also have no gnomes.
asciilifeform: and was handsomely paid
asciilifeform: but somehow 100% of the money 'evaporated' in ~decade.
erlehmann: judas goat, that is harsh. and to the point.
erlehmann: open source : free software :: “new wave” : punk
asciilifeform: aaha.
erlehmann: make the culture palatable to the businesspeople
asciilifeform: the 'embrace & extinguish' thing. it worked.
asciilifeform: you can only get ~actual~ linux today if you make it with own hands. and it takes about a month to go from 0 to a usable box. ☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: ( and if you haven't been doing it for ~decade+, you generally can't do it. at. all. )
asciilifeform: aaaand even after you handcraft the gentoo, with bare hands and sewing needle, you still gotta 'police' the thing constantly, and keep out the poetteringisms that continuously want to build one another, and you have to swear off maybe half of all 'modern' proggies
asciilifeform: e.g. graphical browsers ( 'chromium', say, insists on dbus )
asciilifeform: and then you get a recent gcc and find that it 'optimizes' out safety checks so that exploits can work.
asciilifeform: or that glibc imports drepper's 0days for you
asciilifeform: ( and prohibits static linking ) ☟︎
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1592090 << see also. and other threads. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 19:23 mircea_popescu: which i suppose warrants a general warning : DO NOT UPGRADE YOUR GCC TO 5.0! SAVE YOUR COPIES OF 4.X AND PRIOR!
asciilifeform: every time you sit down and fight a month-long rear guard battle just to keep your box ~usable -- thank esr & co.
asciilifeform: !#s glibc
a111: 287 results for "glibc", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=glibc
asciilifeform: ^ yer in for a treat.
asciilifeform: do read the logs.
erlehmann: i don't get the hate against optimizing c compilers at all ☟︎
erlehmann: if you don't like undefined behaviour, don't write undefined behaviour
asciilifeform: you can't actually write a nontrivial c proggy without undefined behaviour. ☟︎☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: ( e.g. integer overflow IS UNDEFINED in c )
asciilifeform: and UNTRAPPABLE
asciilifeform: on top of this, gcc5 happily removes , e.g., memset
phf: kek "don't write undefined behavior" ☟︎
erlehmann: asciilifeform do you mean you need integer overflow or that it is difficult to check for it?
asciilifeform: erlehmann: the fact that the result of overflow is literally undefined in c !
asciilifeform: the thing is allowed, in theory, to catch fire, crash, substitute random number, whichever.
asciilifeform: format the disk.
asciilifeform: anything at all.
erlehmann: i see it as a kind of type annotation
erlehmann: allowing the compiler to infer that this does not happen, ever
erlehmann: during normal operation
asciilifeform: whereas ~100% of all nontrivial c proggies rely on modular arithmetic via overflow, somewhere.
asciilifeform: and the compiler cannot possibly infer this.
asciilifeform: ( it is physically impossible )
erlehmann: so i guess whoever hates on undefined behavior hates some kinds of typing
asciilifeform: the basic idiocy of c world is that there is permitted to exist a gap between written standard and the actual implementation programs rely on ☟︎
asciilifeform: and malicious idiots can break a compiler, while still technically not violating the standard,
asciilifeform: but at the same time subtly (or not subtly) breaking existing code,
asciilifeform: in such a way as to judas goat the authors of said code to rewrite it such that it DEMANDS the new 'improved' compiler. ☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: this is what the gcc5 folks spend their time doing.
asciilifeform: and llvm team likewise
asciilifeform: (tentacles of same octopus)
asciilifeform: it is called 'embrace & extinguish' and was a method pioneered by microshit.
asciilifeform: in 1990s.
phf: c standard is written with an assumption of a "c machine", which in turn is entirely undefined ☟︎
asciilifeform: it works -- on the unprepared.
asciilifeform bbl
phf: so you bring all your assumptions of what c machine is with you, and then map a "standard" on top
erlehmann: agree http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-03#1665167 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 02:46 asciilifeform: the basic idiocy of c world is that there is permitted to exist a gap between written standard and the actual implementation programs rely on
erlehmann: “avoid undefined behaviour” can mean “avoid C” http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-03#1665176 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 02:48 phf: c standard is written with an assumption of a "c machine", which in turn is entirely undefined
erlehmann: asciilifeform how far along are you in implementing sane foundations for sane personal computing?
erlehmann: i assume FUCKGOATS does not help here?
erlehmann: unless you consider it sane
erlehmann: (and give me reason to)
phf: !!up erlehmann
deedbot: erlehmann voiced for 30 minutes.
phf: i have nothing else to add to this conversation, i am though playing "have you heard this eurodance track" game with girl, where i play something that ~everyone~ danced to in the 90s, but didn't survive the test of time and see if she heard it
phf: like masterboy or mr. president or snap! ☟︎
phf: !!up erlehmann
deedbot: erlehmann voiced for 30 minutes.
erlehmann: thx
erlehmann: who is girl and what are the rules of the game?
phf: there are no rules. she doesn't recognize most of the tracks and get indignant because "i love the 90s!1" but of course through the prism of whatever survived into the early 2000s
phf: the result brings me great amusement
erlehmann: i registered with deedbot. so what changes now?
phf: !!rate erlehmann 1 new blood
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/toyMw/?raw=true
erlehmann: phf have you ever played “digital – a love story”? apparently christine love is too young, so she pieced together how 1989 looked through textfiles.com – http://scoutshonour.com/digital/
phf: !!v 26D4E4DB84B37942E130111DD744601EE4E373EFB0AC035843397D2B715AE49A
deedbot: phf rated erlehmann 1 << new blood
phf: erlehmann: now you can /msg deedbot !!up and after decoding a challenge response send it back with /msg deedbot !!v <response> you'll be permanently upped while you're connected to services anyway
phf: *connected to irc
erlehmann: nice
erlehmann: does it have other functions useful for me in my current state?
erlehmann: in a channel i administered we had a ὀστρακισμός done by bot
erlehmann: if you pissed of a minority of users, a ban happened
erlehmann: worked until the person hosting the bot killed it
erlehmann: and by “worked” i mean: no one complained that anyone should be kicked out
erlehmann: because it was self-evident
erlehmann: if you got at least 3 people representing at least 33% of voting populace, exile!
erlehmann: > Ostracism was crucially different from Athenian law at the time; there was no charge, and no defence could be mounted by the person expelled. The two stages of the procedure ran in the reverse order from that used under almost any trial system — here it is as if a jury are first asked "Do you want to find someone guilty?", and subsequently asked "Whom do you wish to accuse?"
phf: well, your current state is that you can talk at will
phf: there's no "democracy", you're in deedbot's level 2 web of trust through my rating. there's a handful of useful people in l1 that can at some point decide that you shouldn't really speak anymore. that's about it. if you ever become useful, you can get into l1. thus the s/r is maintained
phf: !!gettrust erlehmann
deedbot: L1: 1, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
phf: err
erlehmann: wot connectivity i assume?
phf: !!gettrust deedbot erlehmann
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 1 by 1 connections.
erlehmann: and L2 is amazon style recommendation?
erlehmann: oh
erlehmann: what is L1/L2?
phf: distance, l1 is whatever's immediately rated, l2 is whatever's rated by your rates. an informal way to establish connectivity
phf: ratees?
phf: there's a handy visualizer, but i've no idea what frequency it runs at
phf: http://wot.deedbot.org/29F5BC967632415AB9836DB63E452A7A2A00DEC1.html
erlehmann: !!rate deedbot 1 Most likely a bot.
deedbot: You must be registered.
phf: you gotta !!up yourself properly first
phf: !!down erlehmann
phf: actually i'm not sure why that should be the case..
phf: !!up herbijudlestoids
deedbot: herbijudlestoids voiced for 30 minutes.
herbijudlestoids: whats crackin homeslices
herbijudlestoids: thanks phf
herbijudlestoids: ltns
herbijudlestoids: thought I'd drop in and check on the crazies, I see things have changed dramatically
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: Have you found any new markets where I can take your money?
herbijudlestoids: BingoBoingo!
herbijudlestoids: do you still suck at chess? :D
BingoBoingo: No idea. Haven't played since I sobered up.
herbijudlestoids: you sobered up? ☟︎
herbijudlestoids: I am trying to remember how we played last, it was some kind of texty thing, do you remember the interface for that?
BingoBoingo: I don't remembe
herbijudlestoids: what do you fuckin remember then :P
BingoBoingo: Well a lot has happened since then... there's a nearly two and a half year old media empire, etc
herbijudlestoids: yeah I went on trilema today and I was like wtf
herbijudlestoids: BingoBoingo: is QNTRA thing your media empire?
BingoBoingo: Well, not exclusively mine. For details see http://mpex.biz/?mpsic=S.QNTR
herbijudlestoids: I saw something on trilema saying you can write articles for it and entitles you to shares in it?
BingoBoingo: Yeah
BingoBoingo: Anyways I'll let you get back to catching up
herbijudlestoids: doesn't really seem like anyone is around except for you
herbijudlestoids: nice to see things are still going on tho
herbijudlestoids: enjoy
BingoBoingo: Well, there's quite a few people around but it's Friday night.
BingoBoingo: Hence the sober one is around
herbijudlestoids: for some reason I thought you were from .au but I must be mixing you up with someone else
herbijudlestoids: (it's Sat here)
phf: !!up erlehmann
deedbot: erlehmann voiced for 30 minutes.
erlehmann: BingoBoingo does there exist a gatekeeping mechanism so that qntra does not drown in horsecock as kuro5hin did?
BingoBoingo: erlehmann: Yes, the gatekeeping mechanism is called editor
BingoBoingo: <herbijudlestoids> for some reason I thought you were from .au but I must be mixing you up with someone else << That's cazalla
erlehmann: BingoBoingo all articles on the front page are from you. editor, edit thyself?
BingoBoingo: erlehmann: Well... write moar
erlehmann: submission where?
erlehmann: i think i can do one short hateful article about cryptoscamming before i sleep
phf: in unrelated lulz erlehmann tried registering with deedbot with his key http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/vRSvx/?raw=true, every time he submits this url it returns the fingerprint 58FD21A3F5C47E7AB50496176468DB63F020E509, and he can do it multiple times. the result though is that the system appears it be in some weird partial state. i could rate him, as seen here, http://wot.deedbot.org/BDDE12104FE81BE7F83B698F5356DE4752432A9E.html but clicki
phf: ng on his nick results in 404. likewise when he does !!up or !!rate deedbot claims that he's not registered. this doesn't look like an operator issue
BingoBoingo: submission to editor, as encrypted and signed text http://trilema.com/2015/lacessiveram-editor/
BingoBoingo: <erlehmann> i think i can do one short hateful article about cryptoscamming before i sleep << Must be news.
phf: trinque: ^
erlehmann: BingoBoingo ok, it is already on reddit, so not news
trinque: thanks phf; I'll look at it.
BingoBoingo: Is it a specific thing or "cryptpscamming" in general
erlehmann: BingoBoingo https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/6ettq5/statement_on_quadrigacx_ether_contract_error/
erlehmann: > The Web3 SHA3 implementation requires the Hex value to be prefixed with 0x - optional until Geth 1.5.6.
erlehmann: > Our code didn't prefix the Hex string with 0x and when we upgraded Geth from 1.5.3 to 1.5.9 on the 24th of May, the SHA3 function call failed and our sweeper process then called the contract with an invalid data payload resulting in the ETH becoming trapped.
erlehmann: result is >60k ETH in limbo
erlehmann: translating to a lot of canadian dollares
BingoBoingo: erlehmann: Go for it. I thought you meant some broad "pls to not be scammed" piece.
erlehmann: BingoBoingo ok, where do i submit? or do i publish in my feed and it gets synced?
phf: !!key erlehmann
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/58FD21A3F5C47E7AB50496176468DB63F020E509
phf: heh
erlehmann: in b4 deedbot's weird
BingoBoingo: You submit an ascii armoured block of encrypted and signed text. Most people use http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/ and do a !~later tell url:///////
trinque: s'ok we've got our best people on it
trinque: hold my beer.
erlehmann: lol
erlehmann: trinque do you do full recognition before processing?
erlehmann: BingoBoingo encrypted to whom?
BingoBoingo: erlehmann: To my public key
phf: !!key BingoBoingo
erlehmann: !!key BingoBoingo
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/ADD7A9A28F85E5EF1F51904F309BB8D7F3251143.asc
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/ADD7A9A28F85E5EF1F51904F309BB8D7F3251143.asc
erlehmann: classic 2 idiots 1 thought
trinque: erlehmann: there are 4 key fingerprints in here; which did you want?
phf: aight, that's my queue
erlehmann: trinque i see, that was the error apparently!
mircea_popescu: phf cue.
trinque: erlehmann: known derp; should barf if it gets moar than one
BingoBoingo: A queue of cues!
phf: exactly
trinque hasn't a clue
erlehmann: trinque may i suggest http://langsec.org/
trinque: thing broke when you used it incorrectly; what's the security problem
trinque: what fp did you want
erlehmann: “just don't hold it that way”
erlehmann: but i disgress
trinque: mk, I'm at some point going to go back to what I was doing. ☟︎
erlehmann: trinque so i just create an ascii armored pubkey export and try again?
BingoBoingo: <erlehmann> “just don't hold it that way” << Generally this is how tools work. Do not hold chainsaw by chain.
erlehmann: chinsaw :>
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-02#1664796 did you offer her to http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/ ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-02 23:56 erlehmann: dear diary, yesterday a person on IRC asked me if i am jealous after i referred to ethereum as a scam again. jealous, i asked. yes, she answered, jealous of people who invest in cryptocurrencies!
erlehmann: BingoBoingo sorry no article for you today. am sleepy enough.
erlehmann: mircea_popescu indeed i did.
mircea_popescu: !!up herbijudlestoids
deedbot: herbijudlestoids voiced for 30 minutes.
herbijudlestoids: hiya mircea_popescu :)
erlehmann: mircea_popescu i even linked the sharpie in pooper incident to convince her of your generosity.
mircea_popescu: what's new herbi
mircea_popescu: erlehmann that dude... recently came up, iirc he got like 10 btc or some crazy old timer shit like that.
herbijudlestoids: good question... been spending a lot of time recently studying SPARK/Ada
herbijudlestoids: free time anyway
mircea_popescu: ha.
herbijudlestoids: I was thinking of applications and had this idea of writing an implementation of bitcoind in SPARK
mircea_popescu: it's becoming quite the thing in tmsr it seems.
herbijudlestoids: tmsr?
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: That's another thing you missed
mircea_popescu: yeah. teh most serene republic.
erlehmann: mircea_popescu i think she thinks herself to be too modest. on the other hand, she has repeatedly told me she will not fuck me without me stating sexual interest, which in my experience people only do if they actually do think about fucking.
mircea_popescu: erlehmann tits are only incidental to fucking anyway.
erlehmann: i like exhibitionists
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids i take it you missed alf's ada numeric lib too ?
herbijudlestoids: I missed every fucking thing it seems
herbijudlestoids: link me
herbijudlestoids: so are others already discussing SPARK implementations of stuff here?
herbijudlestoids: I also looked into this stuff https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/blog/p-programming-language-asynchrony/
herbijudlestoids: seems pretty fucking cool
asciilifeform: lol did he also miss the block reader
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids we pretty much settled on ada as the proper environment for critical code, more or less.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i suppose he missed everything
mircea_popescu: !!key herbijudlestoids
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/7BFEED118C1BD7FA160C7780CA8F764D7A6DC051.asc
mircea_popescu: !!rated herbijudlestoids
deedbot: mircea_popescu has not rated herbijudlestoids.
mircea_popescu: !!rate herbijudlestoids 1 missed on all the things.
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/t8o7L/?raw=true
herbijudlestoids: I got a sexysosexy rating from BingoBoingo
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids so then you can self-voice.
BingoBoingo: No rating flowed other way
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2014-02-14#502327 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-02-14 00:43 BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: i tried to wipe out your bids with one limit order down to 111 satoshis and it skipped your bids and sold cheap
trinque: erlehmann: I was asking you which fp you wanted to use, as several made it in here. I gather you registered more than one key?
asciilifeform: herbijudlestoids: life is too short to read microshit's material
erlehmann: trinque what is fp?
asciilifeform: ( for phree, at any rate )
mircea_popescu: !!v A6A6C69E8F0E1285AE4F4FC53F593B07F6AEA2A73DCEE695CC25C022513FBB28
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated herbijudlestoids 1 << missed on all the things.
trinque: erlehmann: teh fingerprint of your key
herbijudlestoids: asciilifeform: I didn't look too deeply, but take a look, it has TLA+ style formal verification properties
erlehmann: trinque 0x6468DB63F020E509 i guess ☟︎
trinque will need another beer for this
herbijudlestoids: I am kind of happy to hear that all this time I was gone, and thinking of this shit, you guys were also thinking of this shit
asciilifeform: herbijudlestoids: i'm not particularly interested in aiding & abetting microshit's attempts to embrace&extinguish ada
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids oh, do you at least know of v ?
herbijudlestoids: v ?
asciilifeform: ( or in their take on haskellism )
mircea_popescu: heh. so 100% missed out on everything
phf: he probably also missed the RATO and the gp, and he wasn't here for the Larasian either
BingoBoingo: Well, everything since valentine's day 2014 it seems
mircea_popescu: now you're just being mean
herbijudlestoids: seems I'm not even using the same fucking gpg key
herbijudlestoids: will need to root through my backups
mircea_popescu: tsk
herbijudlestoids: it's around somewhere
herbijudlestoids: so is anyone going to link me this ada numeric lib by "alf" or not!
mircea_popescu: yeah lessee
herbijudlestoids: asciilifeform: fair enough I guess
herbijudlestoids: so is the consensus on Ada or full SPARK mode
herbijudlestoids: https://muen.codelabs.ch/
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform where is the current version or wut ?
herbijudlestoids: I had a lot of fun reading the log today of asciilifeform talking about NIC drivers
erlehmann: trinque i do not understand
erlehmann: trinque i tried again and used --export-options export-minimal
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/Bmfny is most recent one i posted iirc
erlehmann: but it did not help?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ^
mircea_popescu: a ok.
erlehmann: trinque consider the following http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/DUowJ/?raw=true
herbijudlestoids looks
asciilifeform: 'Muen uses Intel’s hardware-assisted virtualization technology VT-x as core mechanism to separate components. The kernel executes in VMX root mode..' << lulzy liquishit
BingoBoingo: More on the busted Preetling https://archive.is/C6akM
erlehmann: asciilifeform source of liquishit?
erlehmann: you seem to like this word
erlehmann: at least use it often
mircea_popescu: wintel is ~source of liquid shit
BingoBoingo: <erlehmann> asciilifeform source of liquishit? << usually clostridium and diary
herbijudlestoids: asciilifeform: yeah I noticed it is managing this small codebase because it's relying on VT-x and other virt techs also
asciilifeform: intel-proprietary crudware; faux process-separation ( quite impossible on x86 arch ); megatonne of crud; typical academitard snorefest
asciilifeform: also 'small' does not mean what you think it means, herbijudlestoids
herbijudlestoids: I just mean small like 8000 LOC or whatever they said, but obviously they are offloading stuff to VT-x
asciilifeform: 'small' is, say, 2000 ~short, portable~ lines.
herbijudlestoids: right, fair definitions
asciilifeform: i.e. 0 asm ( unless whole thing in asm )
herbijudlestoids: so I guess then it's not just a question of Ada, but also you want a good arch
herbijudlestoids: what is an asciilifeform acceptable arch?
herbijudlestoids: ARM64?
herbijudlestoids: RISC-V?
mircea_popescu: not yet designed.
asciilifeform: there are ugly archs, and less-ugly, thread was about hard separation of processes, which can only happen on separated machines.
herbijudlestoids: yeah, those kind of definitions are appreciated again
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: I believe something has been designed around this ...
herbijudlestoids: CHERI processor, SAFE processor
herbijudlestoids: http://www.crash-safe.org/
asciilifeform: re 'small', my ffa example ( linked earlier ) is illustrative. basic bignum arithm stack, works on any machine bitness or endianness
mircea_popescu: maybe. doesn't seem terribly convincing.
asciilifeform: ~700ln
asciilifeform: herbijudlestoids: 'metadata rule engine' lol again academitardism
phf: !#seenbefore herbijudlestoids
a111: 2015-12-07 <herbijudlestoids> hows life, assets!
asciilifeform: a sane machine arch fits in a few pgs of, e.g., verilog. definitionally.
phf: there you go
mircea_popescu: it's probably the case a correct cpu is closer to how they make gpus -- paste a bunch of same cores all over the chip surface and that's that.
asciilifeform: herbijudlestoids: and must be UTTERLY predictable in operation.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: chuck moore's, say.
mircea_popescu: something
mircea_popescu: certainly none of that bullshit multi-layered cache pipeline and "prediction" and "management engines" and etc. destructured rahter than multistructured.
asciilifeform: anyway sane arch was developed in '80s and called... fpga
asciilifeform: now if only someone made honest fpga.
asciilifeform: doesn't get moar destructured than fpga...
herbijudlestoids: asciilifeform: do you hate this one too https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/research/security/ctsrd/cheri/
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform basuically this crash-safe thing looks like a mostly theoretical xilinx blob
herbijudlestoids: it's academic so I am guessing yes
herbijudlestoids: altho I gotta say I am a fan of capability style systems
asciilifeform: it's the umpteenth 'let's bolt safety to c machine by compartmentalizing processes REALLY!!11 well with proprietary iron' attempt, mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: total snore.
mircea_popescu: myeah
asciilifeform: !!up erlehmann
deedbot: erlehmann voiced for 30 minutes.
erlehmann: asciilifeform why don't you make FPGAs? or processors for that matter? starting with home computers?
asciilifeform: erlehmann: expensive
asciilifeform: erlehmann: coupla $mil for 1980s-sized ic. try it some time, get quotes.
asciilifeform: ( and recall that it usually takes ~several~ shots.. )
phf: capability systems demand capability ontology, which in practice is both expensive to develop and impractical to upkeep
mircea_popescu: moreover, too soon.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-03#1664976 << this, yes. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 01:18 asciilifeform: extracting the Stone of Folly ?
asciilifeform: erlehmann: unless you're rockefeller, it is the kind of thing you do solely if you believe that you can sell'em and make profit.
mircea_popescu: am personally acquainted with subjects who'd immensely benefit
asciilifeform: lolyes
asciilifeform: ( erlehmann : recently there are also chip fabs that charge 'only' six-figure usd: but they make pretenses to own your design! in the small print !! )
erlehmann: lel
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-03#1665007 << the concept of "jets" reminds me of the miserable sort of "vp of busines development" that's basically scarlet o'hara, and a good whipping'd have benefitted immensely. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 01:50 phf: his concept of jets sort of reminds me of lisp VOPs, with similar failure modes. vops originally were supposed to abstract a lisp machine cpu on traditional hardware, so that, say, addition vop adds all the assembler overhead of typechecking etc. in reality it turned into an everything and kitchen sink way of adding arbitrary assembler to the system
mircea_popescu: usually known in bitcoin as "idea people"
mircea_popescu: !!up herbijudlestoids
deedbot: herbijudlestoids voiced for 30 minutes.
erlehmann: in the beginning i thought jets would work like a recognizer + cache
erlehmann: but alas, it was just hints
erlehmann: so for example the markdown support? just joking, all of this is done by some C lib
erlehmann: trololo
herbijudlestoids: in front of all tmsr I admit that I lost my old gpg keypair it seems, thought I had it in my backups but they all seem to have the current one I'm using
mircea_popescu: i dunno what one'd have to have been eating in college to imagine jets as "a-wizard-did-it" handwave solution could possibly work in any practically useful sense.
asciilifeform: erlehmann: in practice it's a nightmare of 'chinese scholarship' -- you're forced to stick to particular forms so as to goad the recognizer into maybe-working
herbijudlestoids: how does a fool change their pubkey association, phf or anyone? or am I just stuck now
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids make a new name ?
herbijudlestoids: but I will lose my sexysosexy rating from BingoBoingo!
mircea_popescu: aha.
erlehmann: asciilifeform but there is no recognizer. just a rune to tell the hoon interpreter to get fucked
herbijudlestoids: fine, I guess I can abandon this old nick anyway
asciilifeform: erlehmann: he promised recognizer!1111
asciilifeform: 'we tried for the best, but got like-always'
mircea_popescu: sina try you know, your name, like adults / sane people.
erlehmann: asciilifeform maybe moldbug imagined himself steve jobs, who also sometimes lied brazenly.
phf: !#seenbefore sina
a111: I haven't seen sina before
mircea_popescu: !!up sina
deedbot: sina voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: !#seenbefore sluts
a111: I haven't seen sluts before
erlehmann: oh i thought this might be a channel with sluts
mircea_popescu: apparently not.
erlehmann: bummer
asciilifeform: ada is slut enuff!11
mircea_popescu: yeah i'm kinda also disappoint
erlehmann: mircea_popescu i once was in a channel where the rule was that new members would only be full members if they are in the local hookup graph
erlehmann: worked like a charm
phf: a111 is a scribe, toils at keeping the logs, what do you expect
mircea_popescu: erlehmann the problem with this approach is that females don't actually have much interesting to say as a general rule ; and the ones that do are too busy to be worth much on the hookup front.
erlehmann: mircea_popescu sounds depressingly heterosexual
mircea_popescu: ~only way out is to keep slavegirls, but then a) you won't particularly want to share and b) it'll take a lot of actual work.
mircea_popescu: !!key sina
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/7BFEED118C1BD7FA160C7780CA8F764D7A6DC051.asc
erlehmann: well, i know that approach works. slowly, but it works. after a while you have a knot of people who hook up with each other.
mircea_popescu: sina you gonna actually take care of that one ?
sina: mircea_popescu: yeah I use it and it has proper backups
mircea_popescu: !!rate sina 1 missed on all the things!
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/kUwQx/?raw=true
erlehmann: mircea_popescu also i prefer the ones that have interesting stuff to say.
mircea_popescu: !!v 5381E06E7065BB3D549679641D24927613EC3AACF4AECE526CC0DC65AD71360A
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated sina 1 << missed on all the things!
mircea_popescu: erlehmann this does not happen naturally.
erlehmann: the preference or the saying?
erlehmann: since i learned that sex is cheap i try to only fug with ppl who i would spent a similar amount of time with even if sex was not in the picture. turns out this is a good heuristic to avoid assholes.
erlehmann: cheap as in == easy to acquire
mircea_popescu: the saying.
erlehmann: problem is, i err too often for my taste
erlehmann: e.g. had a 20 year old tell me recently that she would not meet me that often if she would expect that fucks would not be given
erlehmann: thought a bit about it, have not met her since
erlehmann: regarding urbit and hints: https://github.com/urbit/arvo/blob/master/sys/hoon.hoon#L25
erlehmann: asciilifeform as i understand it, “~/ %add” says “use the C implementation here”. fun exercise: remove ~/ digraphs until implementation breaks.
erlehmann: when it breaks, you have proof that hoon cannot compile itself
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-03#1665069 << actually, the evaluation of the urbit thing that resulted in that decision happened mostly in this very log. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 02:12 erlehmann: on the other hand, i successfully used “see, this guy sold his dukedom in 2013” as argument to convince someone that urbit is of no use
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-03#1665077 << in general, the funding of cocksuckers is not exactly a cogent consideration in this sense. more of a case of, "whatever, she can have $bits, see what comes of it" ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 02:15 asciilifeform: my least nonsensical hypothesis is that thiel funded urbit (yes) to make a half-hearted play at 'embrace&extinguish'ing bitcoin
sina: ok, I have clearly no fucking clue what is going on
sina: gpg -K lists my secret key
sina: when I run gpg --decrypt input from the OTP, it says gpg: decryption failed: secret key not available
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-03#1665087 << which reminds me, genius boy hasn't found his ballsac to confront http://trilema.com/2013/stage-n-bitcoin-exists/ to this very day. i have nfi what they're thinking, either, what, someone walks up to you, pisses ion your drink, you'll go all buffett "we couldn't find anyone pissing in mr w's drinks" and that'll wash ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 02:18 asciilifeform: was from the (public) beginning 'we're like bitcoin, but with censorship, so When They Shoot The Bitcoinists, we'll live'
sina: I can export the key it is clearly there wtf is going on
mircea_popescu: sina maybe you need to feed it a pw.
sina: I do, but why isn't it asking me for a pw?
sina: what the fucking fuck is going on
sina: it asks for a pw if I run `gpg --sign`
mircea_popescu: buncha cryptonoobs!
mod6: !!up sina
deedbot: sina voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: <herbijudlestoids> but I will lose my sexysosexy rating from BingoBoingo! << NO, you rated ME that
sina: whaaat
sina: what the fuck have I done wrong here. "gpg --export --armor sina.sa@gmail.com" ==> http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/STTlS/?raw=true ...registered with that. got an OTP URL from above. put it into a file called 'input', run 'gpg --decrypt input' get that error above
sina: BingoBoingo: that rating from you was the literal core of my being and now it is crumbling away
sina: I am a mote, floating in a sea of meaningless futility
BingoBoingo: sina I did not rate you that. Read the direction on the rating page. You rated me!
sina: but in my mind, all this time, as I navigated through my day to day life, I have been thinking that you rated me as sexy
sina: so sexy
sina: and now it turns out wrong
sina: brb going to kill myself
BingoBoingo: Note diagram
BingoBoingo: http://wot.deedbot.org/7BFEED118C1BD7FA160C7780CA8F764D7A6DC051.html
BingoBoingo: Oh, fuck off. Now I'm starting to wonder who the drunk was in 2014
sina: it was you asshole :D
sina: I don't drink
mircea_popescu: new south wales does not drink. TROLLING DETECTED
sina: anyway I am also coming to terms with the apparent fact that I can't fucking GPG to save my life
sina: how the fuck can I sign arbitrary files but not decrypt them
mircea_popescu: probably by not signing with the pubkey you're supposed to decrypt with, but a different one.
sina: I can even export the secret key with 'pg --export-secret-keys --armor 7A6DC051'
mircea_popescu: !!key sina
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/7BFEED118C1BD7FA160C7780CA8F764D7A6DC051.asc
mircea_popescu: hm.
sina: right?
mircea_popescu: that part seems right yeah.
mod6: what os / version of gpg?
sina: and this is why I thought I didn't have the herbi key backed up because I was getting the same error
sina: fedora 24 gpg 1.4.21
BingoBoingo: https://i.imgur.com/c5FYqVl.png
sina: mod6: the key was generated on, I think ubuntu 12 or 14.04 with a version of gpg I can't remember
sina: fuck is this some kind of gpg2 vs gpg1 shit
mircea_popescu: not likely
BingoBoingo: Admit you are powerless over GPG and that your life has become unmanageable
sina: BingoBoingo: yeah I am 100% there
BingoBoingo: 2. Come to believe that a power GPG'er than yourself can restore you to sanity
sina: I can run 'gpg --local-user 7A6DC051 --sign input', it asks me for a password, I copy/paste the pw from my keepassx, it signs the fucking document
BingoBoingo: 3. Surrender your will and life to TMSR as you understand it
mircea_popescu: sina have you verified the signature ?
sina: I run 'gpg --local-user 7A6DC051 --decrypt input' and I get error saying no secret key
sina: mircea_popescu: I can do a detached signature and verify the sig, yes
mircea_popescu: pretty weird.
sina: mircea_popescu: I know I am pestering, sorry. any chance you can encrypt a doc against my key
sina: and paste it somewhere for me to test
mircea_popescu: sure.
phf: i think you generated a sign only key
sina: BingoBoingo: "save for later" LOL
sina: phf: I used to use this key to identify with assbot all the time :(
phf: doing pgpdump on your pubkey says it's a "Pub alg - DSA Digital Signature Algorithm(pub 17)"
sina: at least, I thought I did and now I think I'm just a piece of crazy shit
mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/CoDeR/?raw=true <<
mircea_popescu: check out the totally lulzy string it spit out
phf: where's it supposed to say something more like "Pub alg - RSA Encrypt or Sign(pub 1)"
BingoBoingo: lol
sina: I can decrypt that
mircea_popescu: theeeen you shouldn't have a problem.
sina: Hurr durr
mircea_popescu: what's it say ?
mircea_popescu: aha!
mircea_popescu: wtf is the issue then
sina: ok, so facts are, my fucking backup system did in fact fucking work, and the herbi key was in my keyring uncorrupted this whole time
mircea_popescu: but...
sina: and I registered "sina" against the same key thinking it was a different key
mircea_popescu: so they i don't get it, why cant' you !!v ?
BingoBoingo: So, at 6.5 days since last nicotine, most profound side effect so far is having to learn to drive again because "WTF does left hand do nao?"
sina: I dunno man, I also tried "curl http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/kUwQx/?raw=true | gpg --local-user 7A6DC051 --decrypt
sina: gpg: decryption failed: secret key not available
BingoBoingo: So far answer to that question is hand signals to other drivers
sina: BingoBoingo: also nut scratching
sina: congrats on 6.5d
mod6: sina: well, if you're using this above command exactly, you may need to do: `curl -sL "http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/kUwQx/?raw=true" | gpg --local-user 7A6DC051 --decrypt" instead
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-03#1665140 << or in other words, that you don't actually have linux. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 02:35 asciilifeform: ( and prohibits static linking )
sina: mod6: same error
mircea_popescu: !!up test_1
deedbot: test_1 voiced for 30 minutes.
sina: how the fuck is it possible mircea_popescu can encrypt a msg against that key and I can successfully Hurr durr, but the OTP won't?
mircea_popescu: sina i have nfi, it's pretty wtf.
sina: maybe phf is right and my key is fucked for real operations?
phf: no i'm wrong
mircea_popescu: i can't see how me encrypting something isn't real ops.
mircea_popescu: trinque can you think of anything weird deedbot might be doing ? total impasse over here.
sina: I am glad it isn't just me
mircea_popescu: sina do the !!v thing in public so i can see wtf it's sending you ?
sina: !!v 7BFEED118C1BD7FA160C7780CA8F764D7A6DC051
sina: no?
mircea_popescu: no the other part. !!rate someone or whatrever so it makes you an otp
sina: !!rate mircea_popescu gentleman and scholar
mircea_popescu: needs a number after name
sina: !!rate mircea_popescu 1 gentleman and scholar
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/TKYJp/?raw=true
sina: that worked!
sina: !!v A219F31FDD833D1408844473A0436E8608707B6CC91445D2FF2B1A4FA1356753
deedbot: sina rated mircea_popescu 1 << gentleman and scholar
mircea_popescu: see, it's encrypted to 1c68710e
mircea_popescu: a 3kb elg-e key.
sina: 2014 was a strange time, why did I make a 3072 bit DSA elg-e key?
mircea_popescu: and also apparently works ? so wtf is the problem ?
mircea_popescu: im not even sure why the fuck deedbot would accept such a thing.
asciilifeform: doesn't it run on gpg..?
asciilifeform: ergo eats what gpg eats.
test_1: i tried an dsa/elgamal key, and it seems to be working no problem
test_1: err
phf: ^
sina: it works now?
sina: I could just up myself
sina: brb going to kill myself
mircea_popescu: cool.
phf: yall need jesus.
mircea_popescu: lol
sina: BingoBoingo: got anymore of those funnies
BingoBoingo: sina: Sure, plenty once you catch up on these past 3 years of log
BingoBoingo: Until you demonstrate mastery in content of missed logs, you are forbade from self killing
sina: phf: yall write this deedbot in lisp?
sina: BingoBoingo: noted
phf: sina: that's trinque's, and yes
mircea_popescu: there's a candy whore in lisp ; deedbot is iirc written in rdbms.
sina: is clojure a dirty word to you?
BingoBoingo: Big bonus of catching up on log is knowing who to blame for which bot
sina: wait you crazy fuckers wrote a bot in sql stored procedures?
sina: I like it
mircea_popescu: it all makes sense once you implement macros.
sina: mircea_popescu: do you knnow why I am here today? because earlier this week I was telling a friend about this time a crazy Romanian saved OpenBSD with a bitcoin donation
sina: good times
mircea_popescu: oh ? what'd they say ?
sina: mircea_popescu: something dumb like "what's openbsd"
BingoBoingo: !!up shinohai
deedbot: shinohai voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: lol
shinohai: >.>
BingoBoingo: shinohai: The erlehmann and sina camhos may need coaching on how to submit to qntra
sina: pls
BingoBoingo: !!up simonpenner
deedbot: simonpenner voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: simonpenner: Long time no see.
sina: BingoBoingo: how do you get ownership of shares if you don't have an MPex seat tho
BingoBoingo: Not 3 years long, but still long in internet time
mod6: <+phf> yall need jesus. << haha
BingoBoingo: sina: Well there's brokerage or simple butt storage
sina: I keep most things in my butt
phf: !!seenbefore simonpenner
phf: !#seenbefore simonpenner
a111: 2017-01-29 <simonpenner> oic
shinohai: Coaching requires something to make it worth my while
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-03#1665154 << i have nothing to hide!!! ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 02:41 phf: kek "don't write undefined behavior"
shinohai: Like btc or epic lulz
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Well, camhos. Propose consideration you would accept.
BingoBoingo: Like pooper sharpeis
sina: shinohai: propose transfer you my payment for first submission to qntra
shinohai recalls the time (I think it was BingoBoingo and TradeFortress) made Candi's husband put sharpie in pooper ....
shinohai: sina what exactly do you need assistance with ?
sina: I dunno, lets say I wrote an article "#breaking, #headline, BingoBoingo sucks 200 dicks ..."
sina: how I submit
mircea_popescu: encrypt it to his key put it in wotpaste and link it to him
sina: altho I feel like I remember BingoBoingo saying you just .asc that sucker and ! tell
mircea_popescu: yeah.
shinohai: You write said submission, `aspell -c submission`, then clearsign the result with your gpg key.
BingoBoingo: Not as .asc, as paste
shinohai: Then, encrypt to BingoBoingo 's public key
shinohai: easy peasy
BingoBoingo: <shinohai> You write said submission, `aspell -c submission`, then clearsign the result with your gpg key. << You forgot "Proofread for its vs. it's, because aspell doesn't know"
shinohai: nb
mircea_popescu: kek
shinohai: Spell check is actually kind of worthless as exists now if you speak more than a single language ....
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-03#1665191 << cocojambo! pretty fun game, indicative of how we fuck girls that are really way too young. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 03:07 phf: like masterboy or mr. president or snap!
sina: alright
sina: its sat afternoon here so I am gonna go do some weekend stuff
sina: me love you long time
sina: rly good to see your chars streaming across my term once again
mircea_popescu: have fun
BingoBoingo: Keep coming back. It works when you work it!
shinohai: ^
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-03#1665245 << bwahaha ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 03:59 herbijudlestoids: you sobered up?
shinohai: Where did we get camhos from BingoBoingo .... I'm on mobile so missing the log
shinohai always has eye for fresh talent.
BingoBoingo: I'm just guessing they are camhos
mircea_popescu: reddit/imaho ?
BingoBoingo: lol
mircea_popescu: in other wolisome, 6am log is like 1k lines god help us.
BingoBoingo: Is this new testament god or still newer testament god?
BingoBoingo: http://oglaf.com/erstwhile/
shinohai kicked girl out of house when she said "Why do you read that boring log every day, can't you just facebook like the rest of us"
shinohai: Current companion is a bit more housebroken.
BingoBoingo: Newspaper trained?
shinohai: Yup. She can piss on the AJC on cue.
BingoBoingo: Nice
mircea_popescu: atlanta jeorjia news ?
shinohai: Yeah, not worth the paper printed on.
mircea_popescu: amusingly, it occurs to me 0.02 btc actually comes to a whopping ~50 bucks again!
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2477.43, vol: 12685.98640740 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2391.605, vol: 5057.38829 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2377.7, vol: 12804.97505964 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2542.046932, vol: 20766.02830000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2483.955, vol: 6675.9205161 | Volume-weighted last average: 2471.81366243
BingoBoingo: Oh, lawdy the moar things change!
mircea_popescu: you know ?
shinohai: Must be why indiancandy texted me today and asked if I was a btcillionare yet.
mircea_popescu: lel. should prolly do a new run of wherever whores cuntgregate.
shinohai: I'm trying to come up with new ideas. twitter is simply full of fat chicks, etc that pay me to tweet their bullshit until they realize no one fucking cares anyway.
shinohai: I forgot I did meet another semi-hot Colombian chick a fortnight ago that I wanted to !~tits
mircea_popescu: heh
shinohai: I may be wrong, but I think the future of this whole camho thing is making some sort of business model that is like, say Qntra, where the ladies get shares based on content.
mircea_popescu: eh, there's ~no future to it. agricultural work.
shinohai: Well I was inspired by http://trilema.com/2015/a-proper-social-site-for-the-bdsm-community/ .... but it seems minds have been poisoned by traditional "social media", etc to the point no one sees the value in this.
mircea_popescu: i expect huh.
mircea_popescu: basically the fundamental problem is that precious cuntlets want their precious cuntlet to be worth money through it not being used ; whereas the only way it could ever be worth anything would be through intensive usage.
mircea_popescu: traditional porn / society beats this stupid out of whores physically, but there's no substitute for online.
shinohai: Precisely.
mircea_popescu: "you know that pamela andersen, that's been like on every single mag cover and took everyone up the ass ? well, i'm just like her, except i live in a closet and never did anything like that!" "yeah, i can totally see the resemblance".
shinohai: Sounds like indiancandy. "I totally do cam work but GOD FORBID I stick ANYTHING in my vagina."
shinohai: !~blocks
jhvh1: shinohai: 469505
mircea_popescu: !!up erlehmann
deedbot: erlehmann voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: why are you still messaging me.
erlehmann: either extreme lag or me misunderstanding how deedbot works
mircea_popescu: let's see ?
erlehmann: !!up
deedbot: You may not $up yourself.
erlehmann: that is correct behaviour, i presume?
mircea_popescu: !!key erlehmann
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/58FD21A3F5C47E7AB50496176468DB63F020E509
erlehmann: still 404
erlehmann: weird
mircea_popescu: !!gettrust deedbot erlehmann
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
erlehmann: that is incorrect behaviour, i presume?
mircea_popescu: myeah. what exactly happened here ?
erlehmann: i have no idea. before i went to sleep it was telling me i need to register, when i was doing !!up – even though i had already.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-03#1665316 << seems to be it. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 04:19 trinque: mk, I'm at some point going to go back to what I was doing.
mircea_popescu: basically you registered multiple keys, confirmed none, timedout the dood trying to help you.
mircea_popescu: what's with the add approach ?
erlehmann: i thought this was an ok answer http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-03#1665369 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 04:26 erlehmann: trinque 0x6468DB63F020E509 i guess
erlehmann: seems i need to learn more about deedbot and then try again instead of wasting others time
mircea_popescu: erlehmann do a final !!register <url> with the actual pubkey of the key you want to use, no backsies, in here so it gets recorded and hopefully gets done today.
erlehmann: ok
erlehmann: !!register http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/B6uhP/?raw=true ☟︎
deedbot: 58FD21A3F5C47E7AB50496176468DB63F020E509
erlehmann: that looks exactly like the fingerprint of the key i wish to use
mircea_popescu: cool.
erlehmann: so was that all? if not, what could i do more? the instructions seem to end here http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/#footnote_2_68942
mircea_popescu: should be all.
mircea_popescu: give the guy a chance to get around to it.
BingoBoingo: From the cancerous faggot department: "Maher seemed encouraged by the answer and said that he should “get to Nebraska more.” Sasse then replied that the comedian was welcome to go: “We’d love to have you work in the fields with us.” Maher seemed surprised by Sasse’s invitation and then jokingly replied, “Work in the fields? Senator, I’m a house nigger.”"
mircea_popescu: lol
BingoBoingo: The cancerous faggot and the Senator both have some aggro incoming, but Senator is drawing the brunt of it for not "seeing something, saying something"
mircea_popescu: what was he supposed to say, "dun lie to me bitch, i know a field nigger when i see one" ?
BingoBoingo: Seriously "Your name is Toby, you will be whipped until you acknowledge your name is toby and you work the field"
mircea_popescu: "your comedy has become unmanageable"
mircea_popescu: i had nfi nebraska even had slavery.
mircea_popescu: "The bill introduced in [Omaha City] Council, for the abolition of slavery in this Territory, was called up yesterday, and its further consideration postponed for two weeks. A strong effort will be made among the Republicans to secure its passage; we think, however, it will fail. The farce certainly cannot be enacted if the Democrats do their duty." << 1859.
BingoBoingo: It was a short one. As much as Nebraska barely exists now, it's existence was more barely in the time leading up to Herr Lincoln's war of aggression
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, https://www.reddit.com/r/girlsgonewild
BingoBoingo: And notice what on the more "inclusive" https://www.reddit.com/r/gonewild/ with no gender specified
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2542.74, vol: 10766.22137381 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2449.0, vol: 5149.89939 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2436.9, vol: 12141.9770871 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2580.742532, vol: 19784.16060000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2548.0, vol: 5382.42247766 | Volume-weighted last average: 2524.18284441
BingoBoingo: So much crashing
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in real leadership, http://i.imgur.com/ju1wwZm.gifv
mircea_popescu: and in other unexpected developments : the eu reacted to trump backing out5 of paris accord by pretending the us is not run by washington, and will just work directly to "business leaders" and state governors instead.
mircea_popescu: this is like, lizard internecine warfare.
BingoBoingo: This is an actual violation of the Logan Act of 1799
mircea_popescu: heh
BingoBoingo: "Undermining US foreign policy"
mircea_popescu: should be funny to see mayors carted off to jail
mircea_popescu: they made some sort of joint declaration w/e
mircea_popescu: yet somehow i suspect trump\s still not found his male pants.
BingoBoingo: Well, this is why Gov shutdown was scheduled for this coming fall and not this past spring. Shitgnomes need time to crawl out of toilet and sign own indictments
mircea_popescu: https://www.curbed.com/2017/6/1/15726376/paris-accord-climate-change-mayors-trump <<
mircea_popescu: including bill peduto, lel.
BingoBoingo: lol
BingoBoingo: In other news, vegetarian hippies oppose beef ban in India because, "muh muslims!
BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/6SqNs
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-03#1665775 << you're registered. I deleted the other registrations. phf's rate seems to have been lost in the mess, so... ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 14:16 erlehmann: !!register http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/B6uhP/?raw=true
trinque: !!rate erlehmann 1 new blood
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/1tmjn/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: !!rate erlehmann 1 new blood
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/zlbhy/?raw=true
shinohai: http://archive.is/jhCRq <<< This is hilarious. "I'm trying to arrange things where people don’t have to trust me."
trinque: !!v 92F669C6BA2DBE01149020CED1E7E057E1E298E4C7357D036A291D426366D482
deedbot: trinque rated erlehmann 1 << new blood
mircea_popescu: !!v 99BCC6E96A78895E2C6CF7477852D9ADA708A3C370D39A2AF13D349DED846AC1
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated erlehmann 1 << new blood
trinque: !!gettrust deedbot erlehmann
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 2 by 2 connections.
trinque: welcome welcome
mircea_popescu: shinohai one funny aspect is that apparently dorks imagine "i'm trying to" as some sort of blank card, dun need to make any sort of effort to explain meaningfully what you're doing. "i'm trying to", good enough.
shinohai: Just like he "tried to" verify those signed messages from Hoaxtoshi?
mircea_popescu: he tried and therefore nobody should piss in his drooly mouth.
erlehmann: ok, this works
erlehmann: thanks for helping
trinque: np.
erlehmann: > Users of the Random Sanity Project can take those random numbers – from 16 to 64 bytes – and input them into the service, which will return a 'true' if the bytes look random, or a 'false' if the numbers don't.
erlehmann: that seems like the more hilarious part of it
shinohai: erlehmann: See http://qntra.net/2017/05/usg-asset-gavin-andresen-pretends-to-meaningfully-inspect-your-random/
erlehmann: the stupidity looks fractal to me
erlehmann: > https://rest.randomsanity.org/v1/q/$BYTES
erlehmann: 1. put “rest” in URL. 2. ??? 3. RESTful service achieved
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in quality gear, http://i.imgur.com/uVPhnCn.gifv
erlehmann: ; curl https://rest.randomsanity.org/v1/q/0123456789ABCDEF0123456789ABCDEF
erlehmann: true
erlehmann: … and on the second invocation it returns false. seems like a classic GET with side effects.
asciilifeform: erlehmann: there's 3 or 4 faux phuctors by now -- and that's just the ones i turned up
asciilifeform: all of'em have a few things in common.
asciilifeform: ( e.g. not publicly displaying ANY useful result ! )
erlehmann: ok, this is getting silly “curl https://rest.randomsanity.org/v1/q/12341234123412341234123412341234” returns true
asciilifeform: erlehmann: iirc all that one did was to see if $value was submitted before
erlehmann: asciilifeform i see the genius of the naming now, sane people can respond to such things with “i'd rather FUCKGOATS” and be right 100% of the time
asciilifeform: erlehmann: ftr mircea_popescu named that one
BingoBoingo thought FUCKGOATS was a natural path to other product names like PASHTUN and BLANKET and HAYBARN
BingoBoingo: While not forgetting URMOM
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/06/fake-news-media-celebrates-mayors-seditionist-collaboration-with-foreign-governments-undermining-us-foreign-policy/ << Qntra - Fake News Media Celebrates Mayors' Seditionist Collaboration With Foreign Governments Undermining US Foreign Policy
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo many mayors
BingoBoingo: ty fxd
shinohai: LOL >>> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBZVA8cXYAEwY_p.jpg
shinohai: "Popesciu"
mircea_popescu: check it out, anon horseface opines!
shinohai: kek
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i did consider possible 'FUCKPIGS' for the bigger one..
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: FUCKPIGS has different herding harness when clustered, APPALACIAN
asciilifeform: lol
BingoBoingo: And the extreme environment hardened variant FUCKSHEEP is herded by SCOTSMAN
asciilifeform: lol i have the 'extreme' one going as we speak,
asciilifeform: ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-02#1664464 ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-02 03:21 asciilifeform: meanwhile!! http://nosuchlabs.com/fg/cagetest/1.jpg , http://nosuchlabs.com/fg/cagetest/2.jpg
asciilifeform: water (it floats...), dust-, and rf- proof..
BingoBoingo: And it's a very nice one
mircea_popescu: lmao
asciilifeform: surprisingly cheap, the box, also (10-20bux, from this vendor, depending on size; has conductive gasket, comes with bolts)
BingoBoingo: Perfect for a TRUESCOTSMAN
asciilifeform: lul
mircea_popescu: alf will not rest until fg goes up someone's butt
asciilifeform: i actually considered a 'dildonic' silicone casting around it
asciilifeform: shape is more or less accomodating
BingoBoingo: Well the waterbag around butt attenuates rf signals coming through the air
asciilifeform: ('a phallic symbol's anything that's longer than it's wide!')
BingoBoingo: Like a bench
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/minigame-smg-may-2017-statement/ << Trilema - MiniGame (S.MG), May 2017 Statement
ben_vulpes: top logs this am gents
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes is candi still around your castle ?
ben_vulpes: ah, shame no
ben_vulpes: let me go boot her back up
mircea_popescu: yeah, great for noobs to play with her tits.
asciilifeform: in other lulz, a parcel asciilifeform sent to the wrong continent -- came back!
asciilifeform: months later.
mircea_popescu: ha!