deedbot: hubud voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: From the fake oped mines: "Hey, Tech Companies: Knock It Off With the Apps That Let People Change Their Skin Color"
doppler: asciilifeform: it was an ebay find, right?
doppler: what's confusing? ascii is talking about an upconverter he bought.
doppler: I wasn't saying nice going to you guys :)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i have utterly no patience to listen to this kalman thing. i made it 13 minutes, but a) terrible snr and b) his voice is insufferable.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: transracialism is a thing!
BingoBoingo: In further developments, little miss trainwreck has just had a tire swapped on her motor carriage for the 7th time in 2 weeks
ben_vulpes: is she buying really really really used tires? spares only?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Girl I've been driving around as favor for her sponsor.
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, "sponsor" is how you say "dude paying for the rent" in slang of romanian student/whore (pitipoanca).
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> is she buying really really really used tires? spares only? << Today she figured out rim was cracked and that's why hey were going flat.
BingoBoingo: Lol, her sponsor is a a lady who is trying to guide miss trainwreck through 12 steps and figured "Hey, she needs to learn how to make friends. BingoBoingo, here's a chance to practice some patience and let her try to be your friend"
mircea_popescu: from experience women that failed to make friends by the age of about 13 or so will never manage.
BingoBoingo: Well, mentally when you account for the years lost to dopeism
BingoBoingo does not plan to take little miss trainwreck to Montevideo
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> is this code for "bb got laid" << Nah, she's a white girl. Practically has a Cherenkov glow of warning signs, but is making an effort to stay sober. Is however a source of entertainment watching the petite weapon of mass destruction operate. Much as the BingoBoingo is a valuable customer service lab, driving this kitten around is valuable wmd development lab.
BingoBoingo: That corresponds to my experience negotiating with the (Cantonese speaking) chinese
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
phf: hehe, somehow i read every single thing that BingoBoingo wrote about the girl as some form of double entedre
phf: the explanations only make it worse
BingoBoingo: I am learning so much from her talking about her shopping process for next motor carriage
phf: it might be a sign of old age, that you attract those tiny kittens, and while they talk you're like "jesus fucking christ you're so dumb", but then you tell them to do a little trick and they do it almost correctly, and you're like "oh hey you're educable, neat, what else can you do"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform perhaps you don't know your own strengths.
davout: but i'm sure they'd accept the former, to "raise awareness"
davout: the thing that amuses me, is that they seem to be rehashing exactly the same nonsense as proper bitcoin reddit was doing 3 or 4 years ago
davout: exact same nonsense, "raise funds for marketing campaigns", "ask merchants to accept it", "tipping bots", literally the exact same things
mircea_popescu: idiots making progress forward can only be possibly used for oven stoking.
mircea_popescu: "years of infighting" ? what, over this week-old fart ?
mircea_popescu: the problem with "tide lifts all boats" is that where boat is comes as function of boat not function of "tides".
davout: "Let's as X to accept buttcash donations"
mircea_popescu: subsistence african farmer is not subsistence african farmer "for lack of opportunities", but for subsistence farmer substance. whether in detroit or durban
mircea_popescu: they both have the ~exact same notion. "follow group and moo."
mircea_popescu: they both sow and reap in the same way the same things : incomprehensible seeds on uncomprehended space.
mircea_popescu: dja understand, asciilifeform, what my bizarre address MEANS ? to you, it's just a curio. you readily fail to realise that the CAUSE of that is that local simply has no notion of cartesian space.
mircea_popescu: you think, "how could mind exist, that fails to understand every plane has underneath system of coordinates".
mircea_popescu: it can. hence, for instance, no roads here cross. they loop. dja even grok on your own what i fucking mean by this ?
mircea_popescu: cuz it's a stretch of the imagination in a way not commonly required to stretch.
mircea_popescu: you may, on a novel road, wonder if it's a dead end. i don't wonder that. i know it's a dead end. because no CONCEPTION of grid, see. it's not that they failed to implement it. it's that they don't realise such exists.
mircea_popescu: nothing is ever signalled ; not even one way streets. because the local never ventures outside of spaces it knows, so doesn't need signals. why not ventures ?
mircea_popescu: shall we now do the incomprehensible seed ? all the way to the witch doctors, just as good as medicine ?
mircea_popescu: farmer, like the sheep that he IS, merely follows the herd, and dies with it.
mircea_popescu: that's the great "progress" of agriculture : the shepherd's sheep were replaced by bypedal farmers.
mircea_popescu: has "a conception" of seasons. a sheep's notion of the world surroundant.
mircea_popescu: wtf does he need the difference between surround-ing and surround-ant ? mordant is not a word, is it ?
mircea_popescu: aaanyway. let's move to a diff topic lest i thoroughly depress myself.
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> quit drivin on the sidewalls girl << lel
mod6: ooh laboratorio & hacker-space
mod6: my first time in .mx many many years ago, i was like "Bimbo Bread? wtf, don't they know..."
wer: how do i view my id on wot
mod6: hi, are you looking @ wot.deedbot.org ?
wer: how do i identify myself?
mod6: it seems like you already did an "!!up" to deedbot.
wer: there's this message "This nickname is registered. Please choose a different nickname, or identify via /msg NickServ identify <password>."
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> the double entendre is now a triple entente. << You probably wouldn't be interested in Miss trainwreck because height is in the range that is short for you and ergonomic for me
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> i've not worked as a caretaker of the profoundly retarded, neh, so can't say i experienced directly << Do you want to come visit before we depart for our seperate ventures? I can make introductions. Maybe even get you some shifts at the BingoBoingo store.
mod6: wer: did you register your nick with nickserv?
wer: i'm not entirely sure
wer: i logged on here 2 or 3 days ago
mod6: Registered : Dec 31 06:23:43 2009 (7y 45w 5d ago)
mod6: not too much younger than mine even
mod6: so when you connect to irc do you do the typical 'identify' command with nickserv ?
wer: perhaps another user from before used the same nickname too
mod6: and if that person grabs it back with 'ghost' or whatever, then you're sol.
mod6: are you sure it wasn't you that set it up so long ago?
mod6: ah, ok. well... im not sure what the protocol is then for changing your nick in deedbot, but I'm sure trinque needs to assist you with that/
trinque: isn't any method for changing a nick.
trinque: you can just register a new key, though
mod6: ah, ok. thx trinque
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 6800.0, vol: 13477.06062120 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 6776.8, vol: 55613.40039211 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 6860.9, vol: 4520.58920367 | Volume-weighted last average: 6786.21230096
a111: Logged on 2015-08-29 19:03 asciilifeform: trinque: btw it was not clear to the folks who ran the camps, that this naturally-occurring system of hierarchy was a net plus re: net tonnage from the mines. hence the 'vory/suka wars' mircea_popescu referenced, a famous case where su authorities tried to monkey with the 'org chart'
trinque: if tits register a new key, are they thereby new tits?
BingoBoingo: For trinque and other parties interested in shipping their own boxes, considering the current cost basis and exchange rates to get a server homed for the first year is looking like ~0.57-0.6 BTC per rack unit (minding that especially power hungry servers may count as multiple rack units despite their physical footprint)
trinque: bit steep. how'd you arrive at that?
a111: Logged on 2017-10-22 05:20 mircea_popescu: your cost basis is ~200 per server. you can rent them for 3-400 as such, or can give out vpsen, which are more productive. perhaps even "shared" if particularily interested into it.
BingoBoingo: amoratizing fixed costs (corporation, LACNIC IP address assignment) over 24 months rather than 12 offers little reduction in cost basis
☟︎ BingoBoingo: Mind that this includes minimum viable commercial address (comes with locker, desk and coffee) for 244 monthly after VAT
☟︎ BingoBoingo: Doing anything in a Zona Franca would allow for avoiding VAT, but it would put the bill for a commercial address close to the cost of the rack and come with pressure to hire 3 descendants of Italian refugees
BingoBoingo: The meat of the cost is in rack with connectivity
BingoBoingo does not know what alf-isp numbers look like, but does not imagine too different
BingoBoingo: Mind that ~0.6 ish BTC hit this year to home a server would mean ISP exists for next year when FX risk likely takes more favorable turn and cost basis starts diminishing
☟︎ BingoBoingo to bed. Hopes these numbers/reasoning receive comment.
trinque: curious what happens to the price when btc buying power increases, as it likes to do.
trinque: could be as simple as billing monthly in advance, calculating bill as u*$operatingCost*1.15/40 or whatever margin atop you think is reasonable. $operatingCost denominated in BTC should be going down all the time
mircea_popescu: mod6 aha! fucking hysterical. and it's a huge paper-bread franchise too, all over latam.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo check out the wonders of mother nature! no need to quarrel!
mircea_popescu: wer perhaps another user from before used the same nickname too << yes. someone else registered the nick, but didn't set enforcement on it. as a result you can use it (you don't get kicked by nickserv) but can't register it yourself. ask in #freenode if they're willing to move it over to you ; if not, find a diff name and register that.
mircea_popescu: in other lulz : "gerry john gerryjohn151@gmail.com 197.210.45.130 Submitted on 2017/11/14 at 11:16 p.m. HELLO EVERYONE I AM GIVING A TESTIMONY OF HOW I GOT RICH POWERFUL AND FAMOUS TODAY"
mircea_popescu: somehow the african notion of "famous" does not preclude the need to "give testimony". wouldn't i already know about him if he were famous ?
mircea_popescu: oh wait, THEYRE JUST WORDS. and yet the usg socialist is not ==== the subsaharan retard. because... DIFFERENCE, just like FAMOUS. they'll give testimony on the difference!
mircea_popescu: (in other lulz : nigeria took over south africa to become africa's largest economy years ago).
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-15#1738804 << mno, you can't get both margins. either you put your whole cost structure into the bottom line, in which case you charge that ; or else you put your recurrents into the bottom line, charge *2 and amortize your fixed costs out of the 2nd part of that *2.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2017-11-15 06:12 BingoBoingo: amoratizing fixed costs (corporation, LACNIC IP address assignment) over 24 months rather than 12 offers little reduction in cost basis
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-15#1738805 << see, this is the terrible habit of poor organisation. you don't say "VAT here is x%, and apparently can be avoided in so and so circumstances with so and so riders which works out to a minimum Y value past which it's worth doing".
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2017-11-15 06:14 BingoBoingo: Mind that this includes minimum viable commercial address (comes with locker, desk and coffee) for 244 monthly after VAT
mircea_popescu: you just say "VAT". it can not be said, this word, by itself. it must be introduced, and retrospective half-ass, i'm not even gonna mention the % is rather infuriating.
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-15#1738811 << there's significant FX exposure in this scheme. consider the situations : someone pays you .6 BTC to whatever. a) BTC goes to 1mn usd ; he has now paid you 600k to do work worth 4k or so. this eventuality tends to discourage longer term payments.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2017-11-15 06:28 BingoBoingo: Mind that ~0.6 ish BTC hit this year to home a server would mean ISP exists for next year when FX risk likely takes more favorable turn and cost basis starts diminishing
BingoBoingo: VAT here is off pissing 22% on "services". Will rechew numbers
mircea_popescu: b) btc goes to $1. you're now on the hook for the same 3.5k, but if you didn't change the BTC to cash as you received it, you have no way to cover for it. this possibility makes just like a, people not want to pay long term.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile if you DO cash it out as you get it, you cash it out as you get it (missing out on a along with your customer).
mircea_popescu: i expect the correct solution will be weekly payments on yearly contracts. otherwise we end up encouraging antieconomic behaviour.
mircea_popescu: trinque ^ that sound like sense ? "you get this rack for a year, to be paid $x every mon" ?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the problem with vat is that yes it's fucking annoying. but on one hand it generally replaces tarriffs, ie contrary to how annoying it is it has a neutral delta (case of dun shoot the messenger) and on the other hand many jurisdictions offer credible solutions. eg, romania has no vat for corps under a certain threshold, which is why i have corps there.
mircea_popescu: i can't imagine brazil doesn't have something similar.
BingoBoingo: The problem is the "services" VAT hits on the rack
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it's a VALUE ADDED tax. you get it back when you export.
mircea_popescu: ie, if you buy a 1mn worth of widgets, 22% vat, and then you sell them, for 1.1mn, 22% vat, you will get back 220k worth of vat to offset your 242k obligation, leaving you with a 22k vat net payment on the .1mn you actually added.
mircea_popescu: so if you pay vat on the racks, see how exactly you qualify to get it back.
mircea_popescu: (if you do. govts are notoriously iffy about ACTUALLY living up to the part of their promise where money flows back out)
a111: Logged on 2017-11-15 11:16 mircea_popescu: mon*day i mean.
mircea_popescu: every fixing day (arbitrary day of week we choose), tmsr.isp lists the TOTAL it has to pay, and makes a bitcoin/usd offer. it can be arbitrarily anything, but in practice it'll be the output of !~ticker --market all Volume-weighted last average: bit (which is fucking ridiculous already, we're tracking bitfinex who the fuck came up with this) or else whatever rate whatever exchange the isp uses.
☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: each of its customers has a choice : can either settle the amt due in bitcoin, at the proposed rate, or else can offer to make wire payment, for the TOTAL amount only.
mircea_popescu: if more than 1 customers option to pay via wire, the price is lowered by 1% in rounds until only one is left standing.
mircea_popescu: this is pureblood fixing, much like prices were established back when the jews did it, before socialists murdering them all and taking over.
deedbot: 2017/09/16 03:22:27 <PeterL> Why is it that papers written by one guy still insist on using the "We" form for all the things they do?
diana_coman: I've been playing around with the keccak implementation from PeterL and it seems overall all right
☟︎ diana_coman: I don't even know whether he tested it or how otherwise; also not sure if there isn't some way around using Strings.Unbounded
☟︎ BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> so if you pay vat on the racks, see how exactly you qualify to get it back. << More is to be done here
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> if more than 1 customers option to pay via wire, the price is lowered by 1% in rounds until only one is left standing. << Now this is interesting
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it's also only functional if we really have enough of a bottom line to make weekly wires feasible. nobody's wiring 300 bux
deedbot: mobile46836 voiced for 30 minutes.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-15 11:34 diana_coman: I don't even know whether he tested it or how otherwise; also not sure if there isn't some way around using Strings.Unbounded
diana_coman finds ada rather endearingly - possibly because it reminds of Pascal
diana_coman: we were started on pascal in 9th grade and explicitly "because it forces order and neatness unlike c/cpp" ; unfortunately at uni it was mainly c/cpp/java
diana_coman: aha, I liked it too; but then everywhere I went it was ...java/c/cpp
diana_coman: oh, ugh; and yes, now you mention it I think it was same-change in Ro too
☟︎ diana_coman: oh, certainly; I wasn't under any illusion that ada==pascal, no; there is some danger in the perceived similarity too, basically the "false friend" type
mircea_popescu: re the "I don't even know whether he tested it or how otherwise;" bit -- this is the sad effect of publishing pastes/github links etc.
mircea_popescu: a snipped of code IS NOT SUFFICIENT. you gotta say ALL SORTS of things. such as this, yes, how it was tested and for what. and so following.
mircea_popescu: just like in physics you can't say "5", a number, gotta say 5 WHATS ; just how BingoBoingo can't say "VAT", just so programmer can't say "here'\s code"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes but this is notoriously bad arrangement. put them in a single node in a place organized for this.
mircea_popescu: no. that's when you stop altogether. when you stop working on it FOR NOW
mircea_popescu: and more generally -- gotta organize your own process to interop sanely with others.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not a matter of the thing. a matter of you. "ima spend a week banging on this next month, and then maybe i pick it up agaion next year" is the scheduling form ; and this means there's a post sometime next month
mircea_popescu: but coding is coder-centric not code-centric. leave aside teh faux modesties of githubs and other usgtardations and set things on their proper footing : coding is all about the coder.
mircea_popescu: the "here's how to add a new activity to foxybot" one does, yes.
diana_coman: ftr for the serpent ada implementation I wrote the testing part: grabbed published test vectors and wrote a snippet to eat them up, call the serpent, check results, complain if any mismatch
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform esp with the trilema-style js links youi can link to arbitrary spot
mircea_popescu: there's a lot of various mechanisms that conspire to work together, just, gotta get human element to stop orcing it all up
mircea_popescu: but yes, if you change version you're in a different situation than here contemplated.
mircea_popescu: phase 1, when the mind reads. this is the normal state, whether you're trying to understand another's implementration or the republican design or clicking on tit pictures, you're in phase 1.
mircea_popescu: phase 2, when you write code. this is the excited state, "fuck this shit ima bang something out". it's like prototyping, not even clear whether something comes of it after all. many excited discussions here fail to progress past 1, "oh, I SEE what you meant!" is often their death knell.
mircea_popescu: phase 3, when you are done writing code FOR NOW. this is traditionally the "refactor break". this is also when you publish, explaining other than the code what you did and why, in detail. this included "i tested so and so -- i didn't test so and so" as it includes "i asume so and so". countrary to patently false subjective intution, this is the MOST valuabler of all the phases.
mircea_popescu: phase 4, when you are done writing code for A WHILE. it doesn't mean the code's good or bad, it means you personally will be doing other things. in this interval typically people discuss your 3 and stuff happens outside of your hands.
mircea_popescu: now, 4 can flow to 1 as it can flow back to 3, and 3 can flow to 1 as it can flow to 4 and so on and so forth. but the important point re these four phases is that they must be explicitly followed, for great personal as well as republic-wide gains of productivity and GDP.
mircea_popescu: in preference of 1. a paste,forumdiscussion tuple ; 2. a github/medium/slockit/livejournal/slideshare/oglaf drawing etc ; 3. any other thing.
mircea_popescu: but this aside : adding the code as text files, linked from the post is perfecty acceptable.
trinque: asciilifeform: white-space: nowrap (css) on a pre tag oughta do that
mircea_popescu: consioder that for i in {1934360vii..1..12viii}; do usrix= << you can't fucking beat adnotated codelines jesus god.
mircea_popescu: (can trivially set theme to overflow right, ~like her does)
mircea_popescu: imo this is the correct usage of html, make the code line as long as it needs.
mircea_popescu: so you want a) arbitrary long lines on b) arbitrary narrow display in c) fixed point that nevertheless d) do not truncate ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so if you are, then what she does is correct (minus that overlaid in the way right bar). consider a line like if (!from || from->stackCount < quantity) { OutputMsg(csString("Not enough ingredients for bundling! Bot stopping.")); Error(); return false; } else { worldHandler::MoveItems(from->containerID, from->slot, toContainer, nextEmptySlot, quantity);
mircea_popescu: there's no intention for blogposts to be liquidshit. once published they stay ; you want to change post another one.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think it is the right thing, minus that she should prolly change that Recent Posts divbox to float right with the content rather than be fixed. but this is a one byte fix
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it is! it is EVERYONES! idea of readable. there's no other fucking readable.
mircea_popescu: if you have a problem with confusing phase 2 and phase 3, this blogposting is exactly the pill required to resolve it.
mircea_popescu: (and no, even if it may seem comfortable, the confusion is antiproductive)
trinque: asciilifeform: reintroducing structure atop the browser's dom isn't sensible, see: semantic web
trinque: thing'd have to know the code's AS
trinque: eh, easier to just preserve revisions, and let people link to a particular one
trinque: no guarantee the linker *wants* to link your latest
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if that's your node level you are well advised to make posts for them rather than for the combo.
mircea_popescu: And in this here FFa post we will be taking Comba Mult version x from y date and together with last week's X, Y and Z, and make this pile
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform neh, because it's your fucking blog, reflecting what you know when you write it not what you come to find in writing it
mircea_popescu: which is why it's even interesting to have one as an intellectual activity.
a111: Logged on 2013-12-03 23:49 ThickAsThieves`: It's hard to explain puns to kleptomaniacs because they always take things literally.
mircea_popescu: basically, looks like a tripod site. if i want to link you to the "c" in Read(s,c); what do i do ?
mircea_popescu: neverfmind artistic. it's as functional as a hammer in a pot of soup.
mircea_popescu: how do i do anything beyond "here's a doodle, click 80 times in inept trees of documents like it's 1980 all over again and steve jobs hasn't yet come to put into abject slavery all sorts of retarded academiacs who really thought they had something to say" ?
mircea_popescu: thing has no way to underline byte error from tester to author and you give it a passing grade ?
mircea_popescu: oh thank you mp, i see now what you had been trying to tell me for the past two hours because that's the sort of a mind i am. will fix now!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform who is going to read anything but non-auto adnotations.
mircea_popescu: can't imagine why not, ada still uses fixed calling, you can't call by pointer-to-string or shit can you
mircea_popescu: the important points here are a) scheduling. if we're in the middle of a conversation, low ranking rando won't make any friends by dumping comments re paste. if you had the decency to put it on blog, he can leave you a comment, which you can read when you have the time. major efficiency boon for everyone.
mircea_popescu: and b) correct linkage. such as above displayed, arbitrary byte, such as so on.
mircea_popescu: there's also c) where it helps the mind mature into something that'll eventually be able to usefully v, but that's a secret.
mircea_popescu: (the a above may seem minor, but both apeloyee and some random noob yest ran into th eexact problem. only one survived it far we can tell.)
a111: Logged on 2017-11-15 17:19 asciilifeform: this item calls for something like phf's v-viewer
phf: a visualizer for free
phf: basically the tree viewer is half baked and i'm not eating my own dog food here, so i'm relying on teh public to give me feedback ("phf fucking fix this fucking thing") which so far has not been forthcoming
phf: asciilifeform: no haven't published it, it's a big ball of mud that in the gran lisp machine tradition lives in TMSR package, along with log bot, log visualizer, log database, etc. so if there's interest in any specific parts i can extract them into library and publish, but i've not been planning on publishing the whole thing
☟︎ phf: i think it might be worthwhile to publish for example vpatch parser and presser machinery though
phf: because we don't have an equivalent available
phf: like a kind of vpatch gitlab thing, ok i'll think where and how to slice
mircea_popescu: gah. i feel like in a spider web, every move to improvement resulting in worse shittifyication.
phf: mircea_popescu: it is (though there's an interruption in the chain that i need to regrind) that doesn't help me though, because it's the whole thing, rather than parts.
mircea_popescu: so that THIS also becomes an "unowned random bit of nothing" and we just sink into idocy ervery year a little deeper ?
mircea_popescu: "i've not been planning on publishing the whole thing" << why not, are you planning to what, sell it ?
mircea_popescu: or did you just make to try and ruin the republic thereby, "here's an engine, it sorta works, im never making it work correctly haha and fuck you" ?
phf: mircea_popescu: no, publish meaning put relevant parts into patch visualizer, i otherwise haven't published anything. log/patch visualizer is presented as a service, as far as log is concerned the philosophy has been "write your own" and there's not been much interest in the v part until now
phf: i resent the "sorta works" bit, i've been responsive with any feedback related to log and patch visualizer. i've not read todays log so maybe i missed how /patches fits into greater scheme of things
mircea_popescu: don't resent it ; instead, let's examine what this "ima publish" entails.
mircea_popescu: there's two major management problems with publishing : one if it's done heathenly, like alf does it, pastes and whatnot ; the other is subjective, "i published it so it's no longer my thing".
a111: Logged on 2017-11-15 17:59 phf: asciilifeform: no haven't published it, it's a big ball of mud that in the gran lisp machine tradition lives in TMSR package, along with log bot, log visualizer, log database, etc. so if there's interest in any specific parts i can extract them into library and publish, but i've not been planning on publishing the whole thing
phf: have i stopped beating my wife yet?
mircea_popescu: fine, so i read 'em when they were absent, woe unto me.
phf: i'm not sure what publishing the whole thing entails, the only bit that i even considered is something along the lines of what trinque did with his irc bot
mircea_popescu: i'm not sure what the benefit of publishing would be. so what, someone else runs it or what.
mircea_popescu: why would you build something else instead of using the something that already is ?
mircea_popescu: he wrote it, let him run it, and not be discouraged by "not forthcoming" or w/e happened there.
mircea_popescu: what exactly did happen ? phf wrote a fine v parser ; jurov sweated white hairs getting an email system into alf-tip-top shape only for it to not be used as soon as it was got to work...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how would you see it interoperate ? there's links in html, is more needed ?
phf: well, that's fine by me, i think what happened is some other conversation got crossed over into what i was thinking. alf said you gotta publish, to which i responded with a very non committal "i'll think about it". but there were parts that i was thinking of publishing. specifically vpatch parser and presser both of which don't really on external tools, but accomplish the whole thing in memory. might be useful for further vtronics
mircea_popescu: how is vtron currently fed, via email list thing jurov made ?
phf: it is still manual process, and we've had a thread about it along the lines of "build it when there's need"
phf: manual meaning that i see a vpatch in any random place, i post it (obviously it benefits me, more content etc.)
☟︎ mircea_popescu: so then, it's more like a sort of curated "Best of" blogposts eh ? you go around reading people's blogs like the editor of old science mags, going "plox put this in format for editorial"
phf: correct, so far there's not been any editorializing. even dead vpatches live in their own patchset
mircea_popescu: alright so then is this structure deemed seaworthy for a while ?
phf: but oftentimes when i post a patch something comes up anyway. like the recent mpi release by asciilifeform is a vpatch, but it lacks a genesis, which breaks all kinds of assumptions (e.g. the tree visualizer wouldn't work at all)
phf: mpi-genesis.tar.gz is not a vpatch though
phf: or is it? i might've missed that part
phf: oooh, well, that fixes that then
mircea_popescu: phf do you have roughly the equiv of a "feed paste in here" slit for it ?
phf: mircea_popescu: i briefly had it, but removed it due to lack of use (it also predates the sbcl rewrite, so it was particularly janky code)
phf: mircea_popescu: right now it's an ssh copy and (tmsr:refresh-vpatches) call
mircea_popescu: well anyway, this'd be a great time to go through the slag, "items that didn't work list" see what other mpis are in there
mircea_popescu: ima have diana_coman put the whole eulora crypto in vpatch form even if we're not yet advanced enough with the cleaning of codebase to use v properly.
phf: asciilifeform: it didn't, i just didn't realize that there was a proper genesis
mircea_popescu: will take a public comment blogpost pass first, so ideally early next year
mircea_popescu: (so in this sense saves them the hassle to v themselves ; though sigs welcome of course)
mircea_popescu: i meant, rather than make a genesis for eu-crypto, just make a branch of your mpi
mircea_popescu: but yes, the alternative is to genesis it and then link downstream from ffa.
mircea_popescu: i am not interested in claiming any kochian pedigrees.
mircea_popescu: anyway. my conclusion is ima do the eu-crypto as a new genesis, because really most of the koch crap in mpi (esp the prng crap) got dirtched
phf: i added readme to mpi patchset also
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, we can do it yes; I guess the question is where to start i.e. no point in starting from koch that I can see; starting from asciilifeform 's sane-mpi would be one; adds and deletes stuff
mircea_popescu: diana_coman so what's your call, rather write as mpi branch or rather stand alone ?
mircea_popescu: the significant benefit of branch would be that this'd be the first in-the-field case to demonstrate this interprojects interop thing.
diana_coman: it uses the mpi part and quite substantially so works
mircea_popescu: it's basically mostly that + the keccac ada peterl wrote + some new stuff
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha. kinda iirc the whole idea of the design at the time was for to be able to have this convo today.
diana_coman: I get the feeling that v is not really seen as versioning in the sense of these are the steps I took, still mulling a bit on thiw
trinque: yes, logs.bvulpes.com is powered by a logbot
phf: ircbot-genesis is trinque's , ircbot-multiple-channels-corrected is ben_vulpes's code
trinque: nah don't think he had to patch
trinque: log viewer just reads same db
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, depending on what we use finally it might be ada-serpent too,unclear
diana_coman: and re peterl's keccak implementation trouble is that thoroughly testing it looks atm as much work as writing a new one in the process anyway so whatever version ends up with tests and everything is the one that will make it into v too I would say
☟︎ mircea_popescu: inasmuch as logbot (bv item) has a genesis, it is not a branchoff. yes it imports from a different line.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman some bits of code, such as heavily linked against standard hash etc would normally take a zillion reimplementations rereads etc anyways.
phf: mircea_popescu: there's a bit of confusion there with logbot, because ircbot and logbot were both published by trinque by they are not vtronic connected, they rely on lisp machinery to load each other. multichannel equivalents of both were publshed by ben_vulpes
mircea_popescu: so trinque you made two diff items that differ how ? one's the irc bot the other's the logger ?
trinque: ircbot's a lisp class that sits connected to IRC
trinque: logbot's a descendent class that puts log lines in a db
trinque: ben_vulpes patched former for multiple channel support, and latter to use former changes
mircea_popescu: phf how do i click on ircbot-multiple-channels to see what's there ?
trinque: then wrote a completely separate html viewer for the db logbot extrudes
phf: mircea_popescu: it's actually a broken patch (i.e. it was published broken), i need to move it to deprecated, since *-corrected has been published since
mircea_popescu: i have been sitting here for 10 mins trying to figure out wtf this is, not getting any closer
mircea_popescu: so im reading trinque.org now in hopes there's explainy.
phf: oh and don't open link #3 that crashes everything!1
trinque: cool, I'll look into that then.
mircea_popescu: trinque you know the cursive "trinque" overwrites the top title on the page on my system ?
mircea_popescu: trinque having read these two articles i dunno why they got independent genesises.
trinque: probably css onanism I committed not working
mircea_popescu: well for one thing, logbot can't stand up without ircbot.
mircea_popescu: first line in install being "install this other thing" is generally an indication item present can't be genesised. maybe not an absolute rule, esp if multiple priors involved. but if just one...
phf: (this is actually related to the code reuse thread we had, the extra-v code reuse machinery is fundamentally at odds with vtronic approach, the conclusion in that thread was "do more retyping it's good for you", which i agree with, but i believe asciilifeform was against it)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform is against all things, gotta be dragged kicking and screaming over all thresholds.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-15 18:43 diana_coman: and re peterl's keccak implementation trouble is that thoroughly testing it looks atm as much work as writing a new one in the process anyway so whatever version ends up with tests and everything is the one that will make it into v too I would say
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform re kalash bullet, my usage list for kalash bullet is "lube generously, insert" not "put into rifle". so it makes sense to genesis.
trinque: I can see it, and also that the case where it would be impossible (tangled hierarchy, mutual dependency) is idiocy.
trinque: goes right to what I've been saying in the hypertext thread, too
trinque: this requires that particular hash antecedent, and not my blog post on the subj
mircea_popescu: otherwise the eminently usable trinque bot is what, iirc in hanbot's hands too she was contemplating doing soemthing
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform your brand of logical here is inadequate. the matter isn't what things could be.
mircea_popescu: when they become something they could have been but weren't, they'll be something else.
trinque: can name the antecedent and still put vpatches in two piles
trinque: "beyond here this crocodile grows robot legs"
mircea_popescu: trinque so you'd rather keep it as two separate items is the idea here ?
trinque: logbot's antecedent *is* ircbot
mircea_popescu: ah. alright. without prejudice to the principle, "can't make everything one single hairstrand", there's also the consideration that can't make the whole repuiblican scalp buzz-cut
mircea_popescu: and otherwise to cap a very productive morning... are there any neglected issues ?
trinque: better stated, I observe that nothing about having a continuous tree prevents naming particular runs of the tree, pointing at, using for different purposes.
trinque: I proposed that as a better solution to portability a while back
trinque: rather than #ifdef or *features*-ing the hell out of the code
mircea_popescu: aha. afaik that's the dogma to this day, "whenever you feel like someone's branch can be your genesis"
mircea_popescu: and speaking of bots, lobbes is your idea to genesis lobbesbot ?
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-08-03 18:35 mircea_popescu: trinque i'll dare say it's something else. have you ever seen "a man for all seasons" ?
phf: getting old,.. wait not yet!
phf: cats living with dogs
mircea_popescu: the epitome of this being of course teh austro-hungarians cca 1914.
mircea_popescu: somewhere on trilema the record of "o noes, people FOR NO REASON increased prices, when we're totally gonna win war", but gotta split so will look for it later.
phf: "The need for Harmony arose out of me not finding any suitably powerful sound solution in Lisp. I tried doing a pure Lisp solution at first, but was not able to figure out how to make things go fast without sacrificing design. So, in the interest of performance, I first set out to write a C library that does the essential sound computations for me. This library is called libmixed."
trinque: pretty sad item to come through "Planet Lisp" RSS
trinque: maybe they meant the other lisp
phf: "shinmera" is part of the new school of common lispers who put out reams of code that's basically ffi to c world. nothing wrong with it per se, but from traditional lisp perspective they are prime wreckers
phf: well, in a sense that it's not a special wrong. they also run systemd and can't wait for wayland etc. etc.
phf: ben_vulpes: yeah, one of those people
phf: asciilifeform: uses cl-async which is an ffi to libuv
phf: amusingly none of that "super fast" shit is used anywhere. venerable hunchentoot was used used by weitz to deliver consulting solutions (was also used by me for same purpose back when it was tbnl), these super fast toys are used to host author's blog.
phf: emacs's cl-lib vs cl, etc.
phf: shit my emacs greets me with iswitchb-mode is obsolete on boot, if i cared enough i'd patch it out, but it's a daily meditation on the general level of fuck
phf: (there's obviously no feature equivalent mode for iswitchb, recommended replacements while i'm sure work for some are overengineered monstrosities)
phf: still waiting for the kristallnacht
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> asciilifeform you just tell people "follow the last". << Tag, category, etc.
lobbes:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-15#1739265 << My ultimate goal with the thing would be to use trinque's ircbot and try and rebuild lobbesbot off of that. As it stands now, lobbesbot is nothing more than a suite of 'supybot modules' I wrote
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2017-11-15 19:16 mircea_popescu: and speaking of bots, lobbes is your idea to genesis lobbesbot ?
lobbes: i.e. it still uses someone else's code for the 'core' irc functionality. I'd rather that core functionality be ircbot, but of course this'll be a huge time investment migrating everything (and learning lisp). In the hopper, though.
☟︎ BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> but i suppose is now a dried, rather than soft turd. << So you broom rather than mop
shinohai: How does it help the poor schizophrenic ? He's probably freaking out "I'll bet they know I took this pill......"
deedbot: PeterL_ voiced for 30 minutes.
PeterL_: hi, missed the 30 second window to identify as PeterL
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 11:33 apeloyee: diana_coman: if keeping the minimum of 2^2047 for primes, you can, for example, generate primes between 2^2047 and 2^2049, and start over if the modulus is unacceptable. not sure what minimum for p and q makes sense.
PeterL_: gives a wider range of possible values than just using a set bitness for both p and q
PeterL_: and you end up with the right size of value for p*q , right?
PeterL_: I thought we were trying to get p and q where p*q is 4096b?
PeterL_: I guess I was just trying to skip a few iterations of chucking out bad values?
PeterL_: since once you get p, you should know the size q needs to be
PeterL_: but why do you limit to 2048 and not 4096?
PeterL_: why do they have to be 2048b?
PeterL_: but isn't it easier to break knowing that they must be 2048b than if they could be anywhere within a wider range?
PeterL_: hmm, I must have missed that day in 1st grade
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-11-15 11:33 diana_coman: I've been playing around with the keccak implementation from PeterL and it seems overall all right
PeterL: but if pure brute forcing, why not start at sqrt(N) and work down?