tmsr - Log 2018-07-11

mod6: does anyone know if the deedbot wallet requires manual intervention (by trinque) for the deposit portion?

mircea_popescu: mod6 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-03#1831576 ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-07-03 20:53 deedbot: http://trinque.org/2018/07/03/brief-hiatus-on-withdraw/ << trinque - Brief hiatus on Deedbot Wallet !!withdraw

trinque: as it happens, I can reach the deposit lever and will shortly mod6

mod6: ah! ok, ben and I are gonna need that -- just holler when you're ready.

mircea_popescu: omg maybe it's a false trinque reaching ersatz levers!

trinque: mod6: yep don't see any inbound yet. I will likely be asleep when the required confirmations roll in.

a111: Logged on 2018-07-10 21:41 diana_coman: no idea but fwiw I was playing with it on the rockchip; as far as I can tell both lobbes and esthlos used some previous versions; (btw esthlos can you maybe show the date of the post somewhere convenient? it's really weird to have to guess it/search for it)

esthlos: by the way hanbot , does the mp-wp come with the footnotes and spiffy-selection built in?

esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-10#1833105 << fwiw phf, esthlos-v resolves the graph in the same manner as btcbase, and can press based at any node. of course, without checking the hashes, currently... ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2018-07-10 14:17 phf: like i said couple of days ago i'm going to forward merge that whole right side, right now the only advise is to delete the right hand side because none of the extant V's can resolve that graph, obviously a suboptimal suggestion. i'm working on a better grapher, but until then..

esthlos: trinque: yes it does, I'm trying not to overcommit but could definitely add once the Keccak/V stuff is off my plate

hanbot: diana_coman the regrind presses here without errors with phf's vpatch. i didn't try pressing with v.pl, possibly they're incompatible...?

hanbot: esthlos it doesn't. footnotes source & instructions are in http://thewhet.net/2017/10/a-compendium-of-possibly-helpful-stuffs-for-erecting-mircea-popescus-wordpress-with-nearly-free-speech-hosting/ , and i've never actually taken on the selection jazz. i can tuck em both into next patch tho. ☟︎

phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833362 << oh i see, your flow command outputs an impossible ordering, but press-path gives a correct press order, so i was wrong, sorry about the fud ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-07-11 03:49 esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-10#1833105 << fwiw phf, esthlos-v resolves the graph in the same manner as btcbase, and can press based at any node. of course, without checking the hashes, currently...

diana_coman: hanbot, right, it's keccak hashes so ofc v.pl barfs although it's weird that it first presses so much of it and only then randomly throws up; at any rate, on different arch, phf's vpatch pressed the mp-wp genesis so at least the genesis itself seems all right

diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1831973 -> asciilifeform any eta/status/update/something on this? ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-07-05 17:59 diana_coman: asciilifeform, I get it: clone of dulap is pointless because it requires rotor-style which can be equally done on existing server; but we are talking of having a box with trinque's musltronic proto-cuntoo

asciilifeform: diana_coman: it's in the pipeline for this week. hopefully trinque's beta cuntoo actually worx. ☟︎

asciilifeform: as i understand this will be the first field test outside of his bench.

mircea_popescu: afaik v.pl is no longer maintained

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hmm, last i knew, mod6 was still supporting it

diana_coman: mircea_popescu, it's not a v.pl problem really at any rate; it wasn't directly clear keccak hashes and yest was a long day here

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1816080 << apparently it actually even presses ? ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 18:42 mod6: When you see it in the flow, then you should be good. Then you'll have to do : ./v.pl p v mpwp mp-wp_genesis.vpatch pd mpwp sd .mpwp-seals

mircea_popescu: tbh, i tihnk what happened here was : original mpwp was sha, then hanbot reground it

mircea_popescu: right.

diana_coman: yes; I suppose it would have helped to have in the list there the move form sha to keccak ☟︎

mircea_popescu: word.

trinque: asciilifeform: pretty high degree of confidence in the build. oughta be exact same deps on your end as what I had on the workbench

diana_coman: <asciilifeform> as i understand this will be the first field test outside of his bench. <- smg is an ice breaker of all sorts, what can I tell you

asciilifeform: trinque: i'ma revv it up with my current dulap kernel, customer can reconfig as desired

mircea_popescu: gawd i fucking love BingoBoingo 's titles.

mircea_popescu: i'm like leaving in a hurry and shit, but can't not stop and read that

phf: stay tuned for further important contributions of to the conversation!

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: seems like you did not plug the nic in on new s.mg ?!

asciilifeform: !Q later tell trinque out of curiosity, why does your cuntoo installer enable swapping ?

a111: Logged on 2018-04-29 13:50 asciilifeform: esthlos: imho absolutely not; i haven't built a linix box with swapping to disk enabled, in decade+ ( 'secure alloc' simply means 'marked unswappable' )

asciilifeform: it also creates msdos-type disklabel, this will be problem later for boxes with large raid (caps at 2tb)

asciilifeform: !Q later tell trinque (running from the ben_vulpes livecd stick) http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/HvavG/?raw=true << it bombs

asciilifeform about to try with the portage...630 switched to the ...601 which is actually included

asciilifeform: ( not accident, but per trinque's script, chroot . emerge '=gcc-5.4.0-r4::musl' )

asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ZiuRv/?raw=true << whole thing, for reference, with the ..601 and removal of swappism being the only changes asciilifeform made

a111: Logged on 2017-12-23 09:27 trinque: does appear that when using the gentoo musltronic patches, the step from 6 -> 5 -> 4 gcc is necessary.

hobotrinque: removing swap is totally fine by me. musl gcc-4 would not build on gcc-6

asciilifeform: hobotrinque: so theoretically this should be fixable when we bolt on ave1's gcc as the initial binary, aha ?

asciilifeform: ( thing is still humming along, building various proggies )

asciilifeform: there's a coupla things obviously missing from the alpha cuntoo, e.g. my anti-poetteringolade ban mask, make flags for actually using the 32 cpus of the box, possibly other things. but i'ma let diana_coman add these at her leisure, box will be delivered with what is as close as possible to trinque's original item ( i'ma config the nic and that's it )

asciilifeform: if diana_coman wants any of these things prior to delivery, plz to let asciilifeform know today !

lobbesbot: trinque: Sent 51 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> out of curiosity, why does your cuntoo installer enable swapping ?

lobbesbot: trinque: Sent 39 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> (running from the ben_vulpes livecd stick) http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/HvavG/?raw=true << it bombs

asciilifeform: trinque: my current set : USE="-libnotify -consolekit -gtk3 -systemd -cups -dbus -gpm -avahi -gnome -tls-heartbeat -nls" ☟︎

asciilifeform: trinque has : USE="libressl offensive -X -acl -bluetooth -consolekit -cups -dbus -iconv -nls -pulseaudio -systemd -wayland -xattr" ☟︎

asciilifeform: i take back most of my whine. ( libnotify & gnome need to be on the ban list, they are very often pulled in by various, incl iirc firefox )

phf: just curious, i'm trying to figure out where to draw the line on hairshirts. postscript pulls poppler for its pdf backend (so does latex, etc. but i'm not even going there)

phf: i think we might've discussed how all these utility libraries (particularly freedesktop ones) are the holes through which the darkness comes. poppler is one of them, a fork of venerable xpdf it is now everywhere where pdf manipulation is done, naturally with no way to turn of said manipulation when need be

asciilifeform: phf: afaik there does not currently exist anything like a hygienic latex or ghostscript recipe ☟︎

asciilifeform: ( neither belongs on server, so i've not put much attention in it as of yet )

phf: i'm unconvinced there can be such a thing as hygienic latex, possibly there can be ghostscript if you pull out the pdf support (?) ☟︎

diana_coman: asciilifeform, the ban mask and flags for using the 32 cpus of the box seem to me absolutely needed as a minimum; mind adding them ?

asciilifeform: diana_coman: ban mask seems to already be in trinque's recipe ( i'ma add the missing flag ) ; make -j32 i will add.

asciilifeform: thing is still building various proggies , but oughta be ready later today.

asciilifeform: ( prolly wouldn't hurt to put a '# of cpus' param in trinque's script itself, in the chroot-making step, would speed up the actual bringup of cuntoo boxen considerably ) ☟︎

asciilifeform: aaaand grrrrrr asciilifeform realizes that he neglected to remove trinque's 'console to serial port only' thing.

mircea_popescu: from experience, girl-girl relationships have two states : miffed, or muffed.

asciilifeform: box is 1) wedged on boot , at 'booting kernel' or some unknowable later point 2) i cannot reset it from here , will need interactive help from BingoBoingo , and not once but several times ( if permitted to boot into trinque's cuntoo, and no worky, needs reset )

mircea_popescu: i see you've been having funtoo ?

mircea_popescu: re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833446 / http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833449 it would seem the correct mezcla would go USE="libressl offensive -X -libnotify -avahi -acl -bluetooth -consolekit -cups -dbus -iconv -nls -avahi -pulseaudio -systemd -wayland -xattr -tls-heartbeat" on the expectation -X does -gpm -gtk3 -gnome implicitly. ☝︎☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-07-11 18:02 asciilifeform: trinque: my current set : USE="-libnotify -consolekit -gtk3 -systemd -cups -dbus -gpm -avahi -gnome -tls-heartbeat -nls"

a111: Logged on 2018-07-11 18:03 asciilifeform: trinque has : USE="libressl offensive -X -acl -bluetooth -consolekit -cups -dbus -iconv -nls -pulseaudio -systemd -wayland -xattr"

mircea_popescu: though i recall asciilifeform making noises about using X on servers ? perhaps the only person who does, i dunno. ☟︎

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833460 <- in no small part because http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-29#1704534 / http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/ issues. ☝︎☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-07-11 18:39 asciilifeform: phf: afaik there does not currently exist anything like a hygienic latex or ghostscript recipe

a111: Logged on 2017-08-29 01:03 mircea_popescu: kanzure are you capable of standing up a bot which takes a link to a pdf and responds with a http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/hello/?raw=true link containing the contents ?

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833462 << why though ? i can't for the life of me imagine how one's to have glyphs otherwise, for one thing, and honestly didn't it start out hygienic ? ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2018-07-11 18:40 phf: i'm unconvinced there can be such a thing as hygienic latex, possibly there can be ghostscript if you pull out the pdf support (?)

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833470 << yes. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-07-11 18:45 asciilifeform: ( prolly wouldn't hurt to put a '# of cpus' param in trinque's script itself, in the chroot-making step, would speed up the actual bringup of cuntoo boxen considerably )

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: plox to ping asciilifeform at your earliest , we gotta do a reset dance

asciilifeform: oooh and i found why no boot : root=/dev/sda3 console=ttyS0,115200n8 << oughta be sda2 , given as i abolished swap

asciilifeform: ( iirc trinque originally built this for some very small vga-less box )

a111: Logged on 2018-07-11 20:43 mircea_popescu: though i recall asciilifeform making noises about using X on servers ? perhaps the only person who does, i dunno.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833483 << lulzily, it 'started hygienic' because outputted ancient oddball format, 'dvi', which was eaten by certain classic phototypesetters. but afaik the only way to display it on current linux is via conversion to postscript/pdf. which in turn pulls in liquishit. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-07-11 20:47 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833462 << why though ? i can't for the life of me imagine how one's to have glyphs otherwise, for one thing, and honestly didn't it start out hygienic ?

asciilifeform: phf also documented some other corruptions of latex in recent decade, but the details currently escape me, iirc in the log somewhere

mircea_popescu: breaking latex out of the evil linux clutches may actually be a worthy thing.

mircea_popescu: also, ABOLISH BETTER!

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: conceivably latex can be cured. iirc phf has a slow-burning march in that direction.

asciilifeform: at the very minimum, would need some way to actually use ( display, print ? ) the thing that it outputs.

mircea_popescu: yeah.

asciilifeform: the obvious headache being , that there does not currently exist anything resembling a sane format that it could shit.

mircea_popescu: yes well.

mircea_popescu: the sooner i don't have to hear pdf anymore the better.

mircea_popescu: fucktarded format possibly only paralleled in sheer idiocy by "youtube video"

mircea_popescu: contents, too, but that's a different discussion.

asciilifeform: in the '80s, sony (yes) tried to make a latex that natively writes to a screen. ('sony news' workstation). i dunno how well it worked, they got out of comp biznis..

mircea_popescu: inb4 phf misreads "pdf"

asciilifeform: subj is perennially fascinating to asciilifeform , how all of the folx with actually promising ideas re comp, withered away and died in '80s, leaving crapple & microshit.

asciilifeform: the schoolboy explanation, 'money went with ibm/microshit', dun hold water, xerox had ~infinite moneys, ditto texas instruments ( 1 of the largest semiconductor houses of its time ) , made 0 diff

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: does there actually exist a 'youtube video format' or do they use the 'html5' horror ?

mircea_popescu: in practical terms, "youtube video" is an url, like p.bvulpes.com/paste/<code>.

asciilifeform: right, but there's also a layer of obscene hacks to make the actual compressed frames ride somehow atop http etc.

mircea_popescu: that's the whole fuckign thing. and it was a primary driver in the mind breakage of the 00s, and deeply related to practical issues such as http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-10#1833240 ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-07-10 18:50 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i can only admire the level of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-26#1829969 conspiraci : clueless girly logs on, it ~immediately~ resets its connection and launches a new one. 100% the cheapest most effectual confusion factor.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i wouldn't dignify that shitshow with a mention, from the engineering pov. everyone involved i know of is deeply ashamed of their participation.

asciilifeform: it is worse than mircea_popescu likely fathoms; asciilifeform suspects that the bandwidth for lolcat watchers to watch the lolcats is 100% bezzle-powered, there does not exist anything like a +ev model for pushing video to all-comers

mircea_popescu: it's not like "author of guillotine", but rather "the guy who came up with the trick of telling jews the gaschamber's for showering".

asciilifeform: picture this, luser gets to load 500MB just for the asking, and sometimes without even asking ( background tab etc crapola )

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform youtube is not mostly lolcats. youtube is mostly male dweebs in a shitsty talking in an annoying voice way too close to the mic. and picking their nose "discreetely" while they nasalize.

mircea_popescu: 2nd by volume, VERY unstable outdoor shots.

asciilifeform: incl. 'warcraft' films, whichever terrifying bonfires of bandwidth.

mircea_popescu: gaming feeds have a different tube.

mircea_popescu: i'm like ye olde admirality, comissioning maps of the seven seas.

asciilifeform: point was, i suspect that there cannot be such a thing as 'sane video www', there is elementarily no way to pay for the necessary bw with honest money

mircea_popescu: it was a dream, back in 1999. "wikipedia of knowledge", "internet of things", there's an entire catalogue of graham&andreessen's boogers on napkins that male http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1831739 retards constructed. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-07-05 13:04 BingoBoingo: Ah, that's Randi Zuckerburg's old bestie

mircea_popescu: you were going to "check your breakin video cameras from everywhere" or somesuch.

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: aah there you are. get thee to the dc cellar, and plox to ping back.

mircea_popescu: it's funny, though, i spent the 90s thinking "oh, man, videoconfereincing will be SO COOL!!!" and then the 2010s going "fuck you and your stupid camera, get on irc like normal people. i really don't need to see you sweat."

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: funnily enuff , in usa at&t built a 'video phone' in the 1960s (!) . had to upgrade trunk cabling in entire country to make it thinkable ( the orig 't1' line dates to this period . ) net # of takers was... approx 0

mircea_popescu: currently can't be arsed to get even http://trilema.com/2018/on-the-internet-nobody-believes-youre-a-sow/ girlies on video feeds.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i know, right ?

asciilifeform: 'why to watch the d00d on the line sweat?' believe or not, discovered even then.

asciilifeform: yet somehow, like '3d movie theatre', gets 'rediscovered' again & again.

mircea_popescu: because "ideas" from julianne whatshername.

asciilifeform: with some admixture of 'maybe ~this~ generation of lusers is dumb enuff'

mircea_popescu: guess what, the nude bios female will "rediscover" "love" every generation\

mircea_popescu: anyway, the important point ~everyone~ (and i don't mean in pantsuitland, at all. it's not the "gender wars" people, it's the "scientists" and "engineers" and whatnot) avoids like snails avoid salt is that THEY WERE WRONG.

asciilifeform: https://archive.li/OUKcq << for expert paleo-entomologists strictly. 'at&t picturephone', 1964.

mircea_popescu: the "intellectual leadership" lead no one nowhere. all their "ideas" turned out to be shit.

mircea_popescu: this has to be fucking confronted.

mircea_popescu: an entire generation intellectually bankrupt on the cluelessness of "the tech sector leaders".

mircea_popescu: from ers to who have you, ALL WRONG, 100% certifiably fucktarded, clueless and entirely extraneous to this world.

mircea_popescu: the whole history of "technology" 1992 - 2018 readily reduces to "hey wouldn't x be cool ? let's do it! oops it totally sucks who the fuck came up with this" for values of x taken out of a set with a cardinality comparable to the cardinal of all sets.

mircea_popescu: just dud after dud after dud after dud on top of dudly mc duderson.

asciilifeform: hey, printing press keeps a-printin', why would they confront any such thing

mircea_popescu: because they have the pretense to sit in a room with me.

asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu's 'tin woman' essay has the complete story re subj. while printing press prints, making comp for mircea_popescu 'aint big biznis', making ipnoje for lolcat and britney watchers -- is

mircea_popescu: hardly.

mircea_popescu: i would be much surprised if the current trend continues, where the chinese keep making the pacis for the ustards.

mircea_popescu: some people feed pig on xmas eve. who knows, inertia.

mircea_popescu: it's better to cut it lean, but after doing it for so long you forget.

asciilifeform: modern cn is big on the 'soft power' thing. i suppose calculated that it is cheaper to give the anglos toys and wait for'em to self-euthanize, than to war.

mircea_popescu: what fucking war lmao.

mircea_popescu: what, they'll "provide consultancy" to "chinese insurgents" ?

hanbot: via hanbot's dad, help wanted ad from Eugene, where he recently moved: "The Room Oregon is opening Oregon Axe, an indoor axe throwing lounge! We are looking to fill a position with an energetic and outgoing individual! Oregon Axe will also be serving beer and wine."

mircea_popescu: ahahaha

mircea_popescu: i think this is actually a great tie-in for "corpoate events". drive people from mission district to eugene for "axing party". when they find out who got laid off.

mircea_popescu: "and jerry has to go sit on the bean bag right over there"

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i asked you to ping back, not to immediately lay hands on the box.

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: or what , exactly is going on ? 1) it reset 2) usb stick no longer there ?

asciilifeform: and pleeeez wait for instructions, rather than doing $randomthing

hanbot: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833379 << iirc mod6 was trying to get mp-wp genesis to work with v.pl, but it never actually pressed with it, sez so a handful of lines past that log link. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-07-11 13:55 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1816080 << apparently it actually even presses ?

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: try to endure the fan winds for another 20min (tops), i might need your magic hands again shortly

hanbot: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833385 << diana_coman that's a good point; added a note on said post. and y'know, you can just tell me directly, "hey, this is dumb, do x". ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2018-07-11 13:56 diana_coman: yes; I suppose it would have helped to have in the list there the move form sha to keccak

asciilifeform: in other omissions in trinque's cuntoo : lspci util. ( kernel build, box dun see nic, and i have no means of determining what the actual nic is, without again resetting into the live stick )

mircea_popescu: funtoo upgraded to funthree.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: part of the 'fun' is that asciilifeform is working through a ipkvm box at something like mars lander latency

mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it might've not escaped your notice standard tool required on alf's workbench is blamebox. he knows better than to proceed without it, as per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833373 etc. in this case -- you're it. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-07-11 13:51 asciilifeform: diana_coman: it's in the pipeline for this week. hopefully trinque's beta cuntoo actually worx.

mircea_popescu preloads a "shush, mr 'i removed swap but forgot to edit the sda count resulting in nonbootable item'!" in the buffer just in case it's needed.

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I have witnessed the alf problem solving process on this datacenter floor

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: didja knock the switch mains loose somehow ...?

mircea_popescu: truth be told ssh pipes are fragile ; the interwebs aren't that great and well... add on top of that the usg.nsa ineptitude.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nope. they are not. i had one going since early june.

mircea_popescu: i don't think i ever saw a pipe live a whole month.

mircea_popescu: then again, possibly not used enough.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've seen 0 flicker on pizarro pipes, period, since i plugged dulap in.

mircea_popescu: nice.

BingoBoingo: I am not seeing whole lan. I am still talking to Qntra from outside our block

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: try yanking out the new box's lan and ping back

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It's blinkenlight is normal, but now the port the KVM is plugged into shows orange (as opposed to green) blinkenlight

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo plox to sit down on somewhere other than dulap ip. ☟︎

asciilifeform: trinque: lemme get this straight, your script does 0 with kernel modules ? expectation is that there ain't any ? ☟︎

asciilifeform: soooooo diana_coman , mircea_popescu , i was able to bring up the box strictly by copying over a copy of my own dulap kernel

asciilifeform: currently i am not able to make use of trinque's builder ( even though i fed it my kernel config verbatim ) as it does not handle the building and installation of the ramdisk where modules live ( dulap kernel is not presently cleansed of modulism )

asciilifeform: however the box is online at 161.0.121.202 & ready for cuntoo userland's alpha testing . ( 1st thing you will want to do is prolly to install ave1's gnat . )

asciilifeform: diana_coman ( or mircea_popescu ) plox to gpggram a ssh pubkey

asciilifeform: all in all this was quite a bit! closer to an automatic process than asciilifeform expected ! nifty piece of work, trinque . ( yes it had typo , and a few minor uglies i'll comment on later, but overall -- worx , ~unmodified, or at least would if i had a fully demodularized kernel )

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo : tomorrow morning , plox to visit the cellar and carefully remove the ipkvm from the box, and cut mains to the ipkvm; also remove the usb stick from said box.

asciilifeform: ( if diana_coman indicates today that she wants to play with kernels, naturally leave kvm in )