log☇︎
205 entries in 0.694s
mod6: When alf alerted about this wedge on the 22nd, I was quick to point out this wave of stuff that I don't typicaly see.
mod6: bvt: Yes, I experience exactly like you describe; right before 'wedge', incoming 30k or so of 'received getdata for: block' in debug.log.
bvt: anyone debug.log snapshots of wedge: did the period before wedge involve a large number of continous block requests?
bvt: http://bvt-trace.net/2020/02/a-tiny-and-incomplete-trb-wedgetrace/#comment-139 - did some more debugging today, but cannot get a wedge when i do need it
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-01 18:31:03 asciilifeform: at this pt, seems quite evident that someone is throwing around crafted wedge chains (i.e. mined after-the-fact , with backdated timestamp, going from older block) specifically to wedge syncing folx.
asciilifeform: ( wedge -- clock stops easily for days )
asciilifeform: if the 'silent wedge' effect actually exists (rather than , say, an artifact of trinque's async mechanisms) i expect it will eventually be found to wedge
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930066 << ftr i've yet to observe this 'silent wedge' effect in my bot (i.e. where the tcp pipe is 'alive' but not doing anyffin useful). tbf it is, what, only 3rd week of this bot.
asciilifeform: rright. wedge could easily be happening on acct of some idjit perl running on a crab usg clamped to cable in bermuda triangle...
asciilifeform: it's entirely conceivable tho that the wedge is on acct of a http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-08-20#1000423 !
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 22:34:33 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927722 << i have a suspicion that trinque set it to cycle at 0hrs (in frustration re socket wedge ?)
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927722 << i have a suspicion that trinque set it to cycle at 0hrs (in frustration re socket wedge ?)
asciilifeform: at this pt, seems quite evident that someone is throwing around crafted wedge chains (i.e. mined after-the-fact , with backdated timestamp, going from older block) specifically to wedge syncing folx.
asciilifeform: ( to date -- no reports of a live specimen of constructed wedge chain, afaik )
mircea_popescu: dunno argument was "low hanging fruit". they wanna see what happens at high energy. the only way to see is to make. approximately situation of "when it comes to cooking, don't have to order out. alf has this method of making polenta, works well!" "and if i want lobster ?" "well then you gotta buy a lobster". getting indignant over how "wanting lobster only serves to drive an impossible wedge between budget and mariscos mercha
a111: Logged on 2019-02-12 23:36 asciilifeform: the avionics people seem to use it, but they (near as i was able to learn) dun kill tasks at all, and regard any detected wedge as a http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895456 condition
asciilifeform: the avionics people seem to use it, but they (near as i was able to learn) dun kill tasks at all, and regard any detected wedge as a http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895456 condition ☝︎☟︎
diana_coman: i.e. it "works" in the sense that it politely waits until that wedge task is kind enough to please come out of the loop so you can abort
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893807 << the 1 concern there is blocking unix i/o calls, these can potentially wedge ( if not wrapped with appropriate timeout ) ☝︎
asciilifeform: it's a bitch tho, what you really want is to lose the wedge, rather than errything you keyed in the past xx min. hence asciilifeform's elaboration of the principle in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=215 .
a111: Logged on 2018-10-24 18:45 asciilifeform: mod6: in fact, and iirc i discussed this 2y or so ago in the l0g, by my current understanding of the reorg mechanism, it is possible to wedge ~any~ noad by throwing a specially- 'retro'-mined block with a higher work delta than the 'genuine' one at a particular point. then reorg dun trigger at all.
asciilifeform: the only practical defense against this is checkpointing, afaik. ( the prb folx tried to defend with 'orphanage', but with finite ram this does not actually solve the problem in the general case, simply ensures that different noades will wedge at different times )
asciilifeform: mod6: in fact, and iirc i discussed this 2y or so ago in the l0g, by my current understanding of the reorg mechanism, it is possible to wedge ~any~ noad by throwing a specially- 'retro'-mined block with a higher work delta than the 'genuine' one at a particular point. then reorg dun trigger at all. ☟︎
asciilifeform: i.e. perma-wedge ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1858813 << this, btw, is quite ordinary picture in recent ~decade of iron. given as even humble nic is nao a multicore arm thing, and has own kernel, and sometimes whole MB of internal state, fulla vendor shitware; so yes, can wedge . ☝︎
asciilifeform: because multilayer psychosis ultimately rooted in 'mother will provide me with what to suckle' wedge.
asciilifeform: so that 1 emacs can wedge and hang ALL of them ? nothx
mircea_popescu: these are eminently the sorts of problems of the stupid, whereby those who come after can't fucking discern what the everloving fuck were you thinking. however the empire managed to wedge them into stupid, through creating a hallucinatory "need for secrecy" or through "women get to choose, and you'll produce choices for them free of charge" or whatever nonsense -- the fact remains, here i sit, and they could've been the hitti
asciilifeform: there is no state and thereby no possibility of a wedge.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: one interesting hiccup was that when i synced in vanilla "connect to wide net" mode, this new node somehow got stuck and also i think triggered some weirdo crash/wedge on another machine of mine with a raid array of rust that had until that moment been hanging at the tip of the spear, but when run with -connect to the self-same (restarted) node a) the rust caught back up within an hour and b)
asciilifeform: not with apu1+sage kit. it dun have a wedge state.
asciilifeform: the 'holy grail' is items which are demonstrably safe to operate continuously -- i.e. fsa with no wedge states. these are not so easy to achieve; FUCKGOATS is one example
asciilifeform: the wedge between cpu and ram clocks today would , i suspect, wipe out the performance difference for most problems
mircea_popescu: lmao alf got 50 comments from idiots. hang it there alfie, this isn't any kind of basis for judging blog. hackertards are just trying to drive wedge between man and man's tools.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i just want, from a strategic perspective, the tool whereby to be able to force a wedge among "website owners" and have them upgrade whether they want to or not, off the imperial tree.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: do you have a debug tail of this wedge ?
asciilifeform: phf: on one hand could be useful, on other -- one more piece for enemy to wedge shut or otherwise manipulate in the post
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 03:01 asciilifeform: wedge at 168000 apparently.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 03:43 phf: you replay to 167998, you then let it run till 168000 on the network. if it doesn't wedge with that setup, than you have two possibilities. it is either a heisenbug, or you need to replay to an earlier block, say 167000 and let that run on the wild network, etc.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694341 << the method is correct, but entirely unjustified effort for the possible payoff. nodes wedge because legacy bitcoin is shit, this sort of chrome polishing you propose is to be reserved for actually written code imo. ☝︎
mod6: take it easy. just asking as it was indicated to be source of previous 168k wedge issue.
phf: you replay to 167998, you then let it run till 168000 on the network. if it doesn't wedge with that setup, than you have two possibilities. it is either a heisenbug, or you need to replay to an earlier block, say 167000 and let that run on the wild network, etc. ☟︎
phf: well, if i were approaching this, i'd replay to 167998 or so, setup a script to ensure that every time i start trb it starts from that state. i would then see if on forward play it would wedge. i would then investigate what is the nature of wedging, and slowly instrument the code along the various paths to tell me where exactly it decides to stop doing the right thing, etc.
BingoBoingo addressed by restarting bitcoind on wedge
asciilifeform: wedge at 168000 apparently. ☟︎
trinque: gotta wedge the broomstick at the right angle, can sit and sweep simultaneously!
mircea_popescu: not as such, no. but you can wedge it in through, eg, making it commit in batches
a111: Logged on 2017-01-26 02:33 mircea_popescu: this wedge will not prevail. i'll do without any milk, forever.
mod6: <+trinque> http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-05#1008972 << mod6, is that why this patch did not make it in? << i don't think it was because of any such wedge. i think we held off because it was proposed that there might have been a better way to handle that through configuration files. it's all in the logs if you look in around the time that email was sent; december of '14. ☝︎
asciilifeform: trinque: first q to ask in a wedge: 'has it SEEN the block?'
asciilifeform: though mircea_popescu's wedge is preventable, what trb really ought to do is start sending http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#1735 to all peers, starting with any 'wires' if present, whenever it goes for >1hr without a new block
shinohai: Whatever the outcome of the node wedge fix is, I need to write all this down as it may be a powerful tool to fuck with enemy in the future.
asciilifeform: trb's block push/pull mechanism is so retarded, that it is possible for a node to go for eons in a wedge, simply from never receiving the necessary unwedge blocks.
mircea_popescu: every dick and jane's expectation that "we did it reddit" is the faint echo of, man walked on the moon and generally speaking drove a wedge forcing a reevaluation of the celestial peerage. "as eternal as the nile flood" is no longer equal to "as eternal as the tide".
asciilifeform: but meanwhile, elsewhere in vast monkeystan, https://archive.is/lJxIm >> 'The indictment against Tverdokhlebov is based entirely on the years-old chats, with no hard information about specific thefts, suggesting that the feds are using it as a wedge to try and pry more evidence from Tverdokhlebov’s arrest and the search of his computers. Over government objections, a magistrate judge set Tverdokhlebov’s bail at $100,000 last week
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that wedge will also not prevail.
mircea_popescu: this wedge will not prevail. i'll do without any milk, forever. ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-03 20:48 mircea_popescu: in particular N.B should be "older overwrites newer" style ring buffer. of particular concern are situations where the buffer is set shorter than the longest reorg, in which case the node will wedge. TRB.N not accepting blocks with index lower than highest of B.B is for sure not feasible. "how many behind" should be an operator knob.
mircea_popescu: in particular N.B should be "older overwrites newer" style ring buffer. of particular concern are situations where the buffer is set shorter than the longest reorg, in which case the node will wedge. TRB.N not accepting blocks with index lower than highest of B.B is for sure not feasible. "how many behind" should be an operator knob. ☟︎
mod6: also, iirc around the same time there was much ado about the wedge @ 168`001 or whatever it was... but that turned out to be the database locking issue.
mircea_popescu: and i am entirely unconvinced by this "good at x" bs. nobody's "good at x". the "good at x" is nonsense of the ilk and period of "blind love", to try and help the wedge of who-equivalency into the trunk of reality.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dun see any unusual wedge
pete_dushenski: it's what i get for trying to wedge 'pygame' onto osxen box.
mircea_popescu: generally, thinking back to the whole "giant sitting in chair" discussion of supermarkets - the state always and everywhere tries to drive a wedge between you and its instrument. specifically, it tries to leverage the scale issue (see http://trilema.com/2009/de-ce-nu-mi-place-capitalismul/#selection-49.0-49.163 ) : you are many and impredictible ; its instruments could kill it.
asciilifeform: and without magic init from which, the thing won't boot, or will wedge itself deliberately half an hour post-warmup (in intel's case.)
thestringpuller: why did it wedge there?
mircea_popescu: <TomServo> I've finally got a node past the wedge, and there was much rejoicing << wd.
mod6: <+TomServo> I've finally got a node past the wedge, and there was much rejoicing << Rejoice!
TomServo: I've finally got a node past the wedge, and there was much rejoicing
trinque: could wedge the magnetic doors open
mod6: indeed, Sir. our very own Max Wedge Hemi project.
mircea_popescu: mod6 reconfigures BDB to pass the wedge at block 252450 << remember that alf ? :D
mod6: And this statement is not accurate: ``With the “rm_checkpoints” patch, the wedge issue at Block 252450 was overcome.''
pete_dushenski: the two hours a week you can wedge into understanding bitcoin means that it'll be a decade before you sort out which was is up in the whole shebang
mircea_popescu: it doesn't wedge linus from linux, it wedges linux from the usg world (or vice-versa)
asciilifeform: where was that mircea_popescu (?) article re: how a child learns that 'i can create!!1111!!' when he takes his first self-aware shit, and that many people wedge at this blockheight ?
mircea_popescu: "what, drive a wedge between the people and the governmentoregulating fruiting body ? WE OWN THE PEOPLE1!11!"
pete_dushenski: i'd argue that this type of posturing ~does~ matter in the sense that it's a further wedge between ( ) boys and ( ) men
thestringpuller: If VPS is magically changing blockchain the client would wedge which it has not...
mircea_popescu: i just managed to reproduce the wedge AGAIN
asciilifeform: it is only by a stroke of luck that therealbitcoin did not perma-wedge from corrupt db, also.
asciilifeform: mod6: no, understand, such a patch being submitted will wedge the machine.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: the wedge point would take about a week to reach, at typical pace, if starting from nil
assbot: Logged on 11-08-2015 08:56:46; BingoBoingo: When the last pre-0.8 wedge came through I suspected it was a BDB issue but alf was the one to euthanize it at the root.
BingoBoingo: When the last pre-0.8 wedge came through I suspected it was a BDB issue but alf was the one to euthanize it at the root. ☟︎
asciilifeform: but also for debugging wedge states
ben_vulpes doesn't wedge frequently
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform enemy is not able to wedge on demand.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re: your earlier observation 'moar nodes!' - must determine if enemy is able to wedge on demand. because then it does not particularly matter how many of us there are.
asciilifeform: eh no. my nodez ran from ignition until wedge day
assbot: New Per Block Transaction Highs Wedge Some Nodes: Patch Available | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1IBUueb )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2015/08/new-per-block-transaction-highs-wedge-some-nodes-patch-available/#comment-36511
assbot: New Per Block Transaction Highs Wedge Some Nodes: Patch Available | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1IBTiHF )
BingoBoingo: Herpity Derp Derp http://qntra.net/2015/08/new-per-block-transaction-highs-wedge-some-nodes-patch-available/#comment-36507
scoopbot_revived: New Per Block Transaction Highs Wedge Some Nodes: Patch Available http://qntra.net/2015/08/new-per-block-transaction-highs-wedge-some-nodes-patch-available/
mircea_popescu: no, it was wedged to allow study of the wedge point.
asciilifeform: get stuck in one, and all threads perma-wedge
asciilifeform: another interesting discovery: when the 'socket closed' wedge state is in progress, 'getinfo' rpc wedges
BingoBoingo: K, moar locks doesn't seem to be fixing wedge
asciilifeform: punkman: i have yet to conceive of any wedge or other undesirable effect from it, other than a bit of wasted bandwidth